S08.E04: Fuck Paying It Forward

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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A blast from the past shakes up Fiona's view of her life. Frank gets involved with Liam's school and becomes the most popular dad in the PTA. Lip learns getting laid is harder than anticipated when sober. Ian crosses a boundary with a kid from the youth center. Kev and V take a trip to meet his birth family.

Promo:

 

Clip:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The thought of Sean coming back made me roll my eyes, so I'm glad that he was just back to do his "make amends" step with Fiona. Notice that Lip is not supposed to have any serious relationships because he's still in recovery but Sean shows up and says he's one year sober and married. Not a smart move, Sean! I can't blame Fiona for being upset with Sean. He just shows up at her house out of the blue? GTFO!

I'm honestly shocked that Frank has been sober for this many days in a row and still hasn't been shown to be working any angles whatsoever. I still don't think it will last but at least the Gallaghers have someone to kind of help with Liam a little bit for the time being.

Poor Vee. I totally understand why she was keeping her mouth shut and just trying to be supportive of Kevin meeting his family, but I was glad when they finally got the fuck out of there.

[scrb]

So Lip can have hookups?  But he bailed on the Tinder girl?

As expected, he got the tough Asian chick at the shop.   Because he talked about being horny all the time, she couldn't stand it and just had to have him?

He's also going to get all the waitresses at the diner too.

Then Frank is going to get all the rich MILFs at the tiny private school because they can't resist his scrawny, prune-face?

Its not just a Shameless thing.  Remember, this is Showtime, the network of sexual acting out and inappropriate hookups, like just about every one involving Hank Moody or Carrie Mathewson the antiterrorist CIA officer and suspected terrorist Brody.

[ahpny]

Quote

As expected, he got the tough Asian chick at the shop.   Because he talked about being horny all the time, she couldn't stand it and just had to have him?

The trope of Lip's irrestistability to women never made any sense, even in the fluid reality of this show. While Jeremy Allen White ("LIp") is a reasonably attracitve guy, he's at best in the middle of the pack of 20-something actors. His chain smoking, emotionally erruptive, and addictive personality must amp up that attraction I guess.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

So Lip can have hookups?  But he bailed on the Tinder girl?

He left because when she kissed him, she tasted like rum. Lip is putting his sobriety first, which is surprising (given the general lack of impulse control we usually see from the Gallaghers) but smart. 

[Enigma X]

17 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

He left because when she kissed him, she tasted like rum. Lip is putting his sobriety first, which is surprising (given the general lack of impulse control we usually see from the Gallaghers) but smart. 

Yeah, I don't buy it either.

 

Trevor continue to annoy me too.

[Dee]

Lip's birth order and innate pragmatism makes him the Gallagher most inclined to exert impulse control.

[Mindthinkr]

How did the junkie get his head caught in the fence? Seems that if you can get it through then you'd ought to be able to get it back out the way you had gotten it in. He must have been so stoned that he nodded out with it stuck. Good on Debbie for getting his head loose. I think she's starting to experience guilt about not being there for Franny and I expect her to mess up the welding gig any time now. The child playing Franny was so cute after she turned from walking to Frank and beaming as she went back to Deb's arms. 

LMAO at Fiona going after the wrong man! Nothing like messing somebody else's life up to make yourself feel better. 

[sheetmoss]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

So Lip can have hookups?  But he bailed on the Tinder girl?

As expected, he got the tough Asian chick at the shop.   Because he talked about being horny all the time, she couldn't stand it and just had to have him?

He's also going to get all the waitresses at the diner too.

Then Frank is going to get all the rich MILFs at the tiny private school because they can't resist his scrawny, prune-face?

Its not just a Shameless thing.  Remember, this is Showtime, the network of sexual acting out and inappropriate hookups, like just about every one involving Hank Moody or Carrie Mathewson the antiterrorist CIA officer and suspected terrorist Brody.

He bailed because she wanted to party first....her ordering him a drink an the rum....

He did good leaving the situation

   I think if she  immediately said upon meeting him, let's go out to the alley, car, etc  to screw he would have

If I heard right, Lips' bike shop co-worker is in the same position  with her sobriety--i,e, horny, so she and Lip hooking up filled both their needs.

Edited November 27, 2017 by sheetmoss

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

How did the junkie get his head caught in the fence? Seems that if you can get it through then you'd ought to be able to get it back out the way you had gotten it in. 

Not always.  There are a million stories of kids getting their heads stuck and not being able to get back out.  I think it has something to do with the shape of the head and the ears.  Plus something about the way blood and fear work.

Fiona is in her own way an addict her addiction is addict men.  She is the ultimate girl who is dating her father.  Every guy she chooses is a little more like Frank.

its weird but I don’t think we have ever seen Lip not in a “relationship” with a woman he is having sex with.  It may not be intentional but he seems to need the emotional connection.  I am thinking the girl wanting to party first was just an excuse for Lip to leave.  I don’t think he actually wants to just have sex.  Even if he thinks he does.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[iMonrey]

Lip screaming "I need pussy!" was a new low. I'd like to think the show is saying Lip is simply substituting one addiction (sex) for another (alcohol/drugs) but I'm not so sure the show has earned it. It might just be as simple as the show always wanting to throw in a Lip sex scene because that's been a staple of this show since Season 1. I mean, if he's horny all the time, that's probably a result of his senses no longer being dulled by alcohol. I don't know why he thinks hooking up with someone will alleviate being horny more than jerking off.

I'm also having a really really hard time buying anyone seeing Frank as a sex object just because he fixed a shoe and washes cars. I respect William H. Macy as an actor but even cleaned up he looks like a degenerate. It would make (a little) more sense if these women just had severe daddy issues.

I still don't give a crap about Trevor or Debbie, and Carl's vigilantism was one of those one-episode throw-aways that doesn't add up to anything important. I take it they went and found a real war vet to play the part of the robbery victim since the guy didn't even speak a word in his one scene. 

I knew it was going to turn out Fiona was screaming at the wrong woman. Saw that coming a mile away. But I did enjoy Vee's quick phone call to Fiona so they could trade horror stories. Poor Kev has never been the brightest bulb in the box, and now we know why. I wasn't clear on what happened to his father, though - did he die? Was his aunt his father's sister?

Edited November 27, 2017 by iMonrey

[Dee]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Fiona is in her own way an addict her addiction is addict men.  She is the ultimate girl who is dating her father.  Every guy she chooses is a little more like Frank.

Not really. Fiona, surprisingly, has a fairly even track record when it comes to dating. Jimmy & Sean were tremendous douchebags, but Mike & Gus were good guys.

[emcmac87]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

As expected, he got the tough Asian chick at the shop.   Because he talked about being horny all the time, she couldn't stand it and just had to have him?

I could be totally wrong on this, but I was wondering if the biker chick was a sex addict? She mentioned if he kept talking about sex it was going to screw up her 10 months of sobriety, I'm probably way off though. 

I have a feeling that whole electricity thing is going to be a problem at some point with how much stuff the tech guy has and utilities being included. 

[Chaos Theory]

16 minutes ago, Dee said:

Not really. Fiona, surprisingly, has a fairly even track record when it comes to dating. Jimmy & Sean were tremendous douchebags, but Mike & Gus were good guys.

Yes but she got bored pretty quickly of both of them and cheated on them with men who are like Frank.  There was also the cop she slept with that one time but she ultimately choice the more exciting Jimmy.  She does this all the time. 

[Dee]

Boring or not, Fiona's conscious choice to date good guys disproves your initial assertion.

Her dating life, like many of her siblings, can't be reduced to such broad strokes.

Fiona usually prioritizes her dating life via her current emotional needs and shared sexual compatibility.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Yes but she got bored pretty quickly of both of them and cheated on them with men who are like Frank.  There was also the cop she slept with that one time but she ultimately choice the more exciting Jimmy.  She does this all the time. 

That's true, she's her own worst enemy. I noticed she's gotten awfully chummy with her new lesbian friend awfully fast. She was at the Gallagher house in the final scene this episode. This - despite the fact that the woman's girlfriend/wife clearly and openly despises Fiona. I'm not sure what to make of someone who so blatantly involves herself with someone her significant other hates, even if she just chalks up her behavior to usual bitchiness.  

[kieyra]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

Not really. Fiona, surprisingly, has a fairly even track record when it comes to dating. Jimmy & Sean were tremendous douchebags, but Mike & Gus were good guys.

Good guys don't act out all sorts of little petty vengeance games like Gus did.

Quote

I have a feeling that whole electricity thing is going to be a problem at some point with how much stuff the tech guy has and utilities being included. 

They're either going to work in an awkward plot about him mining cryptocurrency (and racking up thousands of dollars in electric bills for Fiona) and somehow the Feds get involved, or possibly an awkward plot about terrorism and somehow the Feds get involved? Maybe both.

I'm glad we don't have to return to the era of Fiona banging a guy who literally looks like he could be her dad. Honestly I think I've hated the casting for every one of her dudes but JimmySteve.

I guess I'm still the sole fan of Trevor and Ian/Trevor.

Edited November 28, 2017 by kieyra

[sazzat]

I find the chemistry between Ian and Trevor so weak that I just don't buy Ian being so hung up on the guy that he's still hanging around trying to win him back. At this point he's spent as much time pining as they actually did hooking up.  I'd be more convinced by a story where helping people at the shelter really became a sincere interest.

[Emily Thrace]

12 hours ago, ahpny said:

The trope of Lip's irrestistability to women never made any sense, even in the fluid reality of this show. While Jeremy Allen White ("LIp") is a reasonably attracitve guy, he's at best in the middle of the pack of 20-something actors. His chain smoking, emotionally erruptive, and addictive personality must amp up that attraction I guess.

I can see it in that neighborhood.  Lip is a smart, kind, mostly responsible guy who has no hang ups about taking on other men's kids and is actually good looking and funny  to boot. In a place like that he's like gold dust. Hell if he existed in my hood there would be women scrapping over him daily. They did show him struggle a but more at school with girls so he's not quite the memetic sex good Frank is. In fact the only two real relationship he had at school both had  some kind of agenda.

[scrb]

23 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I can see it in that neighborhood.  Lip is a smart, kind, mostly responsible guy who has no hang ups about taking on other men's kids and is actually good looking and funny  to boot. In a place like that he's like gold dust. Hell if he existed in my hood there would be women scrapping over him daily. They did show him struggle a but more at school with girls so he's not quite the memetic sex good Frank is. In fact the only two real relationship he had at school both had  some kind of agenda.

Yeah but he's getting that Showtime irresistibleness from females of all ages, all classes, wherever he goes.  He got a lot of action in college before dropping out.

Rich older women were willing to slum it with his broke, bug-eyed ass.  Of course they had him work with a trainer as he grew during the course of the show, even though he doesn't work out and has bad habits from all the smoking to all the drinking.

Real life Lip from a poor neighborhood with no job, money and bad habits wouldn't look as cleaned up as the TV show Lip.

For that matter , the other Gallagher kids would look rough, since they all tend to binge on substances and have poor habits.

[dd21dd21]

I literally said GTFO when they did the slow mo of Frank with the women looking on lustfully....cant believe the show went there lol

[preeya]

7 hours ago, dd21dd21 said:

I literally said GTFO when they did the slow mo of Frank with the women looking on lustfully....cant believe the show went there lol

Frank Gallagher - MILF Master.

[Tatum]

16 hours ago, Dee said:

Boring or not, Fiona's conscious choice to date good guys disproves your initial assertion.

Her dating life, like many of her siblings, can't be reduced to such broad strokes.

Fiona usually prioritizes her dating life via her current emotional needs and shared sexual compatibility.

I think Fiona wants to want guys like Mike, or Tony, or that investment banker that was age appropriate that she cheated on with Jimmy (while on a date with the banker)...they just don't do it for her, as much as she wishes they did.

22 hours ago, ahpny said:

The trope of Lip's irrestistability to women never made any sense, even in the fluid reality of this show. While Jeremy Allen White ("LIp") is a reasonably attracitve guy, he's at best in the middle of the pack of 20-something actors. His chain smoking, emotionally erruptive, and addictive personality must amp up that attraction I guess.

I thought that was interesting in his first year at college, when all the girls were sort of repulsed by him and his manners, and Lip was just so used to having girls fall all over him, and didn't know what to think. Yet the show then reverted to an entire house of sorority girls just desperate to bang him. I guess the show has hinted he has a real affinity for giving oral sex which may add to his appeal but I have to think some of the girls would still be repulsed by him.

[Philip]

Good episode. But I have to say that Trevor had no good reason to be rude with Ian, Ian didn't know the situation, gave her a roof and then he's blamed as if he did anything wrong.

 

The girl slept on Ian's side but it wasn't even sexual and by this logic then when kids sleep by the side of their parents then is that somehow sexual too according to Trevor? Just when I think the Trevor character can't get any worse or stupider, he proves me wrong.

[iMonrey]

Quote

They're either going to work in an awkward plot about him mining cryptocurrency (and racking up thousands of dollars in electric bills for Fiona) and somehow the Feds get involved, or possibly an awkward plot about terrorism and somehow the Feds get involved? Maybe both.

Or maybe he burns down the building, and Fiona is screwed because she doesn't have insurance? I mean, the ax has to fall eventually. She's a Gallagher. Can't become too successful or too happy.

[planet17]

So far this season has been... unusual. Things are relatively normal and healthy. Fiona and Lip are doing fine with their work and sobriety respectively despite a few obstacles here and there. Carl and Ian are not doing much, Liam is fine at school, and Debbie's biggest drama after being kicked out is missing Franny's first steps. Not to mention Frank's determination to be Francis. There isn't a big conflict, there isn't a "threat" and there isn't a clear arc so far despite "the Gallaghers are doing fine".

I wonder if this season will maintain this much (much) lighter tone, or if it's going to be like season 4 where everything seems fine until a tragedy happens and everything falls apart.

[monagatuna]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:53 AM, Philip said:

Good episode. But I have to say that Trevor had no good reason to be rude with Ian, Ian didn't know the situation, gave her a roof and then he's blamed as if he did anything wrong.

 

The girl slept on Ian's side but it wasn't even sexual and by this logic then when kids sleep by the side of their parents then is that somehow sexual too according to Trevor? Just when I think the Trevor character can't get any worse or stupider, he proves me wrong.

He mentioned she was an incest survivor, so in this case...yes?

 

Edit: also I guess I'm in the minority but I really like Trevor. I think he genuinely cares about the kids he helps and really puts them first while Ian only cares about getting his dick wet. I do think they have zero chemistry, but I've also thought that about all of Ian's partners. I just don't think the actor is that convincing, which sucks because I really want to like the character.

Edited November 29, 2017 by monagatuna
Added stuff

[Mindthinkr]

18 hours ago, planet17 said:

So far this season has been... unusual. Things are relatively normal and healthy. Fiona and Lip are doing fine with their work and sobriety respectively despite a few obstacles here and there. Carl and Ian are not doing much, Liam is fine at school, and Debbie's biggest drama after being kicked out is missing Franny's first steps. Not to mention Frank's determination to be Francis. There isn't a big conflict, there isn't a "threat" and there isn't a clear arc so far despite "the Gallaghers are doing fine".

I wonder if this season will maintain this much (much) lighter tone, or if it's going to be like season 4 where everything seems fine until a tragedy happens and everything falls apart.

I put a slight spoiler on the spoiler thread addressing how long all will be well. 

[msrachelj]

On 11/28/2017 at 0:13 AM, scrb said:

Yeah but he's getting that Showtime irresistibleness from females of all ages, all classes, wherever he goes.  He got a lot of action in college before dropping out.

Rich older women were willing to slum it with his broke, bug-eyed ass.  Of course they had him work with a trainer as he grew during the course of the show, even though he doesn't work out and has bad habits from all the smoking to all the drinking.

Real life Lip from a poor neighborhood with no job, money and bad habits wouldn't look as cleaned up as the TV show Lip.

For that matter , the other Gallagher kids would look rough, since they all tend to binge on substances and have poor habits.

and have probably never been to a dentist.

[taanja]

On 11/27/2017 at 2:55 PM, Dee said:

Not really. Fiona, surprisingly, has a fairly even track record when it comes to dating. Jimmy & Sean were tremendous douchebags, but Mike & Gus were good guys.

And notice Fiona isn't with Mike or Gus anymore? because they weren't Frank-like. 

[Dee]

Fiona isn't with any of her more problematic ex's either. So what's your point?

[taanja]

On 1/9/2018 at 8:39 PM, Dee said:

Fiona isn't with any of her more problematic ex's either. So what's your point?

The very first episode of Shameless I ever saw was the finale of season 7 -- Monica's funeral. I didn't know any of the characters or their history but I was blown away by the acting and the content. I was hooked right there and then.

Anyway -- I started watching season 1 and have been working my way up. But I am also watching season 8 (the present season) so I am kind of watching both ends.

Fiona has become my favorite character. and the thing I notice is she is not only "the female Frank" she ultimately chooses men who are like Frank-- either an addict in some way or a hustler or a cheat etc... I see her pattern clearly.

Mike was too nice-- I saw that from the beginning. So of course she fucks that up when she fucks his brother. While she's dating Gus she keeps saying -- Oh he's so nice and it's so nice there is no drama -- so of course she fucks that relationship up. She is addicted to drama.

I guess my point is that Fiona is always going to pick someone who is like Frank. And if she doesn't? she will ruin it somehow.

[Dee]

She doesn't actively seek/choose men like Frank. She dates, and hooks up with, all kinds of men. Both good and bad.

The trait she inherited from Frank is her tendency to self sabotage her romantic relationships because all she knows is dysfunction.

[taanja]

21 minutes ago, Dee said:

She doesn't actively seek/choose men like Frank. She dates, and hooks up with, all kinds of men. Both good and bad.

The trait she inherited from Frank is her tendency to self sabotage her romantic relationships because all she knows is dysfunction.

Such a thing is never a conscious decision. For men or women.  But certain people (like the Fiona character) have a "type" -- they inevitably chose their type. Like in this present season with Ford. Dude is a mess with a capitol M and of course Fiona is attracted to him.

[Dee]

It is a conscious decision. For both men and women.

Fiona doesn't have a type any more than Lip or Ian does.

The failure of each of her relationships has to be judged by its own merits instead of making blanket assertions that don't hold up under further scrutiny imo.

[Natalie25]

On November 27, 2017 at 8:59 PM, kieyra said:

I guess I'm still the sole fan of Trevor and Ian/Trevor.

I'm liking Trevor too! I was a little worried before I started to catch up, because of all the Trevor hate I keep seeing...but I don't see anything wrong with him? The only weird thing was sex thing at the club in a previous episode, but he was fine this episode. I don't see any chemistry between them (I think Ian just needs a friend, and I wish they'd focus on that for him), but my main issue with Ian/Trevor is actually Ian. It's like he's a different person from earlier seasons...I'm really starting to dislike the character.

[Natalie25]

On November 28, 2017 at 0:53 PM, Philip said:

Good episode. But I have to say that Trevor had no good reason to be rude with Ian, Ian didn't know the situation, gave her a roof and then he's blamed as if he did anything wrong.

 

The girl slept on Ian's side but it wasn't even sexual and by this logic then when kids sleep by the side of their parents then is that somehow sexual too according to Trevor? Just when I think the Trevor character can't get any worse or stupider, he proves me wrong.

 I didn't think Trevor was rude, and considering the situation I thought he was right to call Ian out on what he did - I thought the whole thing with the girl sleeping in his bed was super awkward and creepy, even if he didn't know she'd do it. I'm not understanding why he didn't call Trevor to let him know where she was.

Kids snuggle up to their parents because they're their parents, they have a history and relationship with them. Ian is almost a stranger to her - and if she was afraid to be downstairs alone, she should have woken him up, not just climbed into bed. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 11/27/2017 at 10:40 AM, ahpny said:

The trope of Lip's irrestistability to women never made any sense, even in the fluid reality of this show. While Jeremy Allen White ("LIp") is a reasonably attracitve guy, he's at best in the middle of the pack of 20-something actors. His chain smoking,iemotionally erruptive, and addictive personality must amp up that attraction I guess.

It's the unattainable, smart yet dirty, chain-smoking, alcohol-fueled nut busting, reminiscent of James Dean thing that must amp up Showtime writers/producers Chicago south side girls.  And north side university professors.

[DrSpaceman]

I don't really get what Fiona wanted from Sean

First she thinks he showed up to try and get her back in her life and she is pissed

Then she finds out he showed up just to apologize basically and that he doesn't want her back, and.......she is even more pissed????

Trevor was a total dick IMO.  the girl came to Ian, not the other way around.  And how is he supposed to now all the rules of the shelters, that she has to check in?  And make sure she doesn't sleep in his bed?  That is her fault, not his.  He is not allowed to help out someone who asks for it?  Sanctimonious jerk. 

[DanaMB]

On 11/27/2017 at 11:12 AM, Enigma X said:

Trevor continue to annoy me too.

I’ve been binge watching this show (thanks social distancing), so I know I’m replying to a very old post but I had to just put it out there how much I can’t stand Trevor. He’s a judgmental, condescending prick. I hope he’s gone soon.