S25.E12: Week 10: Season Finale Part 2

[Bridget]

17 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

Were Terrell and Cheryl there last night? I don't recall seeing Sasha either, while I do clearly remember Gleb standing in front of Barbara. He didn't seem to be aware of that till the end, when he seemed to apologize to her. Weird.

Sasha was there - I saw her dancing with Gleb for a millisecond on the stage at the Grove. She was wearing a long white dress with long sleeves. It was definitely a group dance. That's all I can recall at this moment. The heatwave here is taking its toll on me!

[realdancemom]

7 hours ago, Bridget said:

Thank you for clarifying that - you got to it before I did.

If Ronda Rousey does anything in the spring of 2018, rumors have long been swirling that that she will make another appearance (and possibly even compete this year) at WrestleMania on April 8.  She's got a great relationship with WWE and I think her allegiance would be to that company instead of appearing on DWTS, but again, stranger things have happened! 

For the record: while I love WWE and both its male and female superstars (and yes, I know it's not cool to admit that out loud), UFC/MMA is so violent to me. Seeing all those women beaten up, battered, bruised and bloodied just makes me ill.

Ronda probably won't do DWTS.  Gina Carano might.  I loved her when she was Crush on the revamped American Gladiators.   I don't watch UFC/MMA either since it's too violent for me but I know she's done MMA.  

Finally got to see the Tuesday show.  I love the Fall finales because I love Christmas shows.  I agree that they need to give more time to the finalists for their last thoughts.  I wouldn't have cut out Nick, Jordan, or Lindsey though since they were contestants.  I would have cut out the guest singer which featured Jenna and Val dancing.

Glad that Jordan and Lindsay won!!  I did think that Mark and Lindsey had a chance since I read the most raves for their freestyles.  The final four remind me so much of the Season 17 final four.  I remember liking Jack's, Amber's, and Corbin's freestyles that year too.  I don't remember Bill's.  This season, I liked all four freestyles and in both seasons, nobody had a manipulative contemporary for a freestyle.  Yay!! 

Drew is Bill.  Both came in fourth and were paired with Emma.  They were both popular and not good dancers.  Both knocked better female dancers which frustrates people like me that watch the show for dancing.   But that's how the show works.  Frankie is Jack.  They are also popular and their dancing improved a lot during the season.  They are not as good as the front runners though.  That's why I was glad that Frankie was 3rd and Drew was 4th.  I didn't want a David Ross situation even though David is a really nice guy. 

Jordan and Lindsey are Corbin and Amber.  Jordan will get the ringer backlash just like Corbin.  He also gets the too polished and too rehearsed comments.  Both are from Disney and their background is musical theater.  Both have dance training but not ballroom training.  Also musical theater usually emphasizes acting and singing more than dancing.  Lindsey and Amber have experience with dance choreography.  Amber has a more magnetic personality which shows in her dances.  Lindsey is more quirky which is perfect for Mark.  I do believe that Amber came in with a bigger fan base since Glee was a very popular show at the time.  I knew Lindsey before the show because a lot of her videos have Utah dancers as her background dancers.   She's also played for DWTS but I still don't think she had as big as a fan base as Amber did.

I did prefer Amber's freestyle to Corbin's.  However, even if I'm in the minority, I prefer Jordan's freestyle to Lindsey's.  I think Lindsey's was more tailored to her but I enjoy the dancing in Jordan's.  The difficulty and execution of his freestyle and a lot of his other dances are unreal.  There was speed too but then there were moments where Jordan can show his personality and style. 

As I mentioned, I think Lindsey could have won with her freestyle.  I also think her injury did not help.  She was on a roll and received a perfect score for her Sci-Fi AT.  Then she got injured and he following week, she did great with her Halloween dance but you can tell that she was in pain.  The next week, her Samba was not her best and then she was compared with Kristi in the trio dance.  She did not have Kristi's extensions or top frame.  So she lost a little steam those two weeks.  She did pick it up last week and I thought she should have received a perfect score for her contemporary even if I didn't like the trash being thrown during their dance.  Then she did well with her iconic dance but it's difficult to be compared to Meryl.  I'm just glad that Jordan and Lindsey were on this season.  Otherwise, I might have skipped this season.  When I watched the first show, it was after watching some amazing dancers on SYTYCD.  Jordan stood out to me right away and I knew I wanted to watch him the rest of the season.  Lindsey and Vanessa were also really good and I wanted to also see them.  Victoria woiuld have been third tier.  The rest were terrible.  There are seasons where I think everybody is decent or really good.  This was not one of them.  All of them did improve so that I wasn't cringing by the third or fourth show.   But I think I would have stopped watching before then if it wasn't for Jordan and Lindsey. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by realdancemom

[Dobian]

17 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I didn't think the outcome was at all predictable.  There were many factors mitigating against all three finalists and many for.  I think the show is manipulative enough to down Frankie 2 points (c'mon, when do they do that in the finale?) because they were worried enough that he might be able to take it in that final vote, but I don't think they can call the winner.  It's just not legal.

If you look at how the scoring works, the popular vote has more impact than the judges' scores and that two point difference was fairly negligible.  Here's the math per the rules:

Jordan   60 / 2    30   33.7%

Lindsey  60 / 2   30   33.7%

Frankie  58 / 2   29    32.6%

So Frankie was only 1.1 percent down despite being scored 2 points lower by the judges.  If he got just 1.2% more of the popular vote than the others, he wins.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Dobian

[A.Ham]

I didn't realize how much I wanted Jordan to win until he did. Don't get me wrong, I would not have been upset if Lindsey won it, and I adored Frankie, but for me, this was Jordan's to lose. Maybe the really pleasant surprise was the fact that in the previous four seasons I had strongly rooted for others (Normani, James, Paige and Nick) that never won that made this win especially sweet. 

To be honest, the first week, I actually rooted for Frankie and threw all my votes his way. And then, slowly, Jordan became the one I wanted to re-watch. So much so that by the end of trio night, all my votes went to Jordan. And it was because I found him charming and hardworking as well as exciting to watch. The fact that Lindsay would also win was icing on the cake, and a good reward for her hard work and their partnership, but it was not the driving force.

The fact that both Jordan and Frankie are joining the tour also revived my interest in it, and after years of skipping it we are getting tickets to go as well. I can't wait to see it!

PS: I think it is smart of the producers of the tour to include not only a fan favorite but also a good technical dancer. This way they offer something for everyone.

Edited November 24, 2017 by A.Ham

[Andiethewestie]

I was seriously going to skip the season because the line up looked meager. Then the early ringer talk about Lindsey Stirling got me interested out of curiosity.  I skipped the first episode and then I saw Jordan do that Samba and I said to myself, holy shit, I have never seen anyone without ballroom training look so at home.  That included all the ringers before Jordan.   Ringers before Jordan always looked good in their style, but they somehow  gave themselves away as jazz or theatre dancers because the movement was there but the technique, many times a little miss here and there.... For example Heather, doing the break down on the Jive.. what happened for me is the jive suffered because the technique dropped a little. The break down was awesome and it was the best part of the dance, you could feel that's where she wanted to be. Therefore,  I thought the dance was uneven.  Now look at Jordan's Foxtrot. The technique was solid all the way through that dance, beautiful extension even a little sway,. and the break down was awesome It was just full on entertaining from start to finish. Watch Jordan's Tango- close body contact great extension and great dance position, upper body relaxed but great frame.  Watch Mario Lopez on his Tango, good yes, he looked the part, but he just would not dance with heel leads, he was constantly on his toes. That's just bad form.  Watch Corbin's Jive or Nicole's Samba and you'll see the difference. Corbin looks like a Jazz dancer doing Jive. The leg extensions are from a jazz world, long and languid, great movement, but not jive that has to snap.  Nicole for her Samba was not given enough content because it was difficult for her to look good doing it. Watch the QS or the Foxtrot, you could drive a truck between Nicole and Derek in hold.   Now watch Jordan. Look how he maintains contra body movement and contact all the way through his standard dances. Look how he was given no shortcuts, he was doing bachacatas, samba rolls, samba runs, in that short but jam packed Samba ...all in such a short period of time to look this good.   It was just incredible for him  to so quickly master the technique that alludes even the best dancers who have been on this show. All of the ringers had great dances, great moments, but nobody has ever been this consistent.   I would have been very upset if he didn't win.     

Edited November 23, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

3 hours ago, A.Ham said:

The fact that both Jordan and Frankie are joining the tour also revived my interest in it, and after years of skipping it we are getting tickets to go as well. I can't wait to see it!

Woohoo!  I got tickets for Windsor , I dont' want to miss Jordan.  That star is going to get expensive! 

[jay741982]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:17 PM, superdeluxe said:

Every time I tried to check out the show tonight, it was a commercial.  So, I guess that was a sign.  It was a foregone conclusion anyway.  It was Lindsay’s turn and they had to hand her a super ringer to make sure it happened.

So, whose turn is it now?  Who’s next to win?

I think Sharna and Keo one of those two 

[Snarklepuss]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:21 PM, Dobian said:

The winner wasn't a surprise and it was very predictable.  The problem with DWTS has always been that it mixes in true amateurs like Frankie and Terrell Owens and Drew the house guy, with celebrities who have performance experience like Lindsey Stirling, and with people who are pretty much dancing professionals in their own right like Jordan. So yes he's technically the best, but it's not a fair comparison.  I still enjoyed the finale despite all the filler, and was glad to see my personal favorite, Lindsey, nail her dances.

I knew Jordan would win since early in the season.  The combination of his talent and being the "it" guy from being in "Hamilton" plus his personal magnetism put him over the top.  Don't tell me TPTB didn't have this figured out in advance this when casting this season.  I would NOT believe they wouldn't have known going into this that he would be the heavy favorite to win.  I don't think that set up this season as a fair competition from the get-go.  I've been watching since Season 1 and while I am sure there were some previous seasons where there was an overwhelming favorite to win it somehow feels more unfair this season, I guess because Jordan was so obviously head and tails above most of his competition.

I didn't post at all this season until now and I actually imagined more people would feel like I do about this and be saying "Let's just give Jordan his mirrorball and send everyone home now".  I didn't think that what I thought was completely obvious from early on wouldn't have been echoed by everyone, but I guess not!  Don't get me wrong, he clearly deserved to win, I just wish he had been cast on another season or something so Frankie and Lindsay would have had a fair shot.  I can just imagine what Mark B. was thinking all along this season.  It sucks!  Plus, while pro Lindsay certainly is deserving of a win, I can't think she deserves it more than Sharna does.  I know she's a talent but so is Sharna.  I hate to think that this show has also become about a popularity contest between pros - If anyone should be judged mostly about their talent it should be the pros as that's their career.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

Don't get me wrong, he clearly deserved to win, I just wish he had been cast on another season or something so Frankie and Lindsay would have had a fair shot. 

The same could be said about James and Calvin in Season 23...or Amy and Candace in Season 18...or Evan and Erin in Season 10. In fact, I think you could say it about quite a few seasons where the winner was obvious before the season even started.

[Andiethewestie]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

I knew Jordan would win since early in the season.  The combination of his talent and being the "it" guy from being in "Hamilton" plus his personal magnetism put him over the top.  Don't tell me TPTB didn't have this figured out in advance this when casting this season.  I would NOT believe they wouldn't have known going into this that he would be the heavy favorite to win.  I don't think that set up this season as a fair competition from the get-go.  I've been watching since Season 1 and while I am sure there were some previous seasons where there was an overwhelming favorite to win it somehow feels more unfair this season, I guess because Jordan was so obviously head and tails above most of his competition

I am going to disagree here.  I don't think Jordan had it in the bag.  In fact most of the time the audience would just flat out reject a Disney kid because they were too good at performance and basically showed up their lumbering but lovable football star.  No Disney kid has won this show.  Starting with Monique Coleman back in Season 3,  Emmitt Smith was so overwhelmingly the favorite because of his legendary status as a football star this show was only about those who could learn to dance as the yardstick.  But that was never the intent. The intent is to take celebrities regardless of background and put them on a pro/amateur dance show.  So with the uber popular non dancers it became increasingly weird, celebrities with training began hiding their backgrounds in dance because the audience would reject them.  Then when people realized they told a lie it was worse. It's crazy,  I never understood why you should be ashamed of the work you put in to become a dancer.  So for me, the lie was worse than the training. Just be upfront about it and let the chips fall where they may.  I say be proud of being a dancer. Isn't that what dance is supposed to be about?   If anyone watches SYTYCD you see highly trained dancers struggle with ballroom technique.  Ballroom is a whole other beast, but everyone wants to lump all dancers all in one pile, but it's just not true.  It can't be, when you see so many not do well in ballroom on a show for professional dancers. 

So as a person who used to buy into the bs narrative of this show, that you had to be completely untrained,  I decided that my gut told me different.  I decided that I love excellence, not just someone struggling to be mediocre and create some false "journey"   People will be good at some styles, not so good at others.  If they gain some personal insight, or maybe see DWTS as a vehicle to jump start a lagging career, great.  But only If they rise to the challenge regardless of background, that was my champion.  Prime example Rashad Jenkins.  He is BY FAR my favorite non dancer winner.  Jenkins has not only continued to dance, he takes dance lessons regularly now.  What other champ has done that?  Normally these non dancer winners take in all the publicity for awhile and then they drop dance like a hot potato.  Why? Because it's hard.  They will take the necessary choreography, drill it for a show and then that's enough.  And that's okay.  But it takes daily practice of your craft to become really good. I remember watching Apolo and Julianne come back to one of the anniversary shows and being so disappointed in how he never kept up dance.  It was a very rusty performance.  Or when Joey Fatone and Melissa Rycroft did a cringeworthy Paso. Just awful. Rashad is a better dancer now than when he was on the show.  I doubt there are many who are a real student of dance like Rashad,  unless they are dancers like Jordan.  You know Jordan will keep dancing. It's in his DNA.     

[rr2911]

All I know is the first couple of seasons, DWTS was geared towards the celebrities not knowing how to dance. I think after the first season the producers thought they better allow some dance experience on the show because of ratings. Remember, these shows are ratings driven. Jordan has been dancing during his career. He and Julianne Hough worked together on a Broadway production. She even mentioned that on the show. Great that he won. He was the better dancer, but of course there is a reason why isn't there? I just don't see the point in having celebrities that have or are currently dancing be part of the competition. What's the fun in that? You know who will probably be in the finals and most likely win.

[Andiethewestie]

8 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

Jordan has been dancing during his career. He and Julianne Hough worked together on a Broadway production. She even mentioned that on the show.

Jordan was on a TV show with Julianne,  Grease Live, and he was notable for singing on that show.   

8 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

He was the better dancer, but of course there is a reason why isn't there? I just don't see the point in having celebrities that have or are currently dancing be part of the competition. What's the fun in that? You know who will probably be in the finals and most likely win.

Except that a lot of times the better dancers get kicked off early or in quarter finals.  There's little fun in that.  I'm so glad that a young vibrant dancer like Jordan actually made it to the finals, and he had the fanbase to take him there.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

8 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Plus, while pro Lindsay certainly is deserving of a win, I can't think she deserves it more than Sharna does.  I know she's a talent but so is Sharna.  I hate to think that this show has also become about a popularity contest between pros - If anyone should be judged mostly about their talent it should be the pros as that's their career

I think it is more about why the pros are cast for this show. 

Sharna is a walking Jessica Rabbit, so most of her partnerships she develops has that sort of vibe.  I think it would have been very different if Sharna were paired with Jordan. As a recording artist Jordan has no trouble turning on a sexy vibe in his live performance of his new single, and I think Sharna would have been all over that.  But some partnerships click for different reasons.  Sharna was over the top with Bonner and while he got a lot a votes there were a lot who were turned off.  She had a stellar year with James Hinchcliffe and I thought her partnership was fun but also very sexy so James made sure his beautiful girlfriend was front and centre to ward off the inevitable talk.  It is such a shame that his fan base in Canada was prevented from voting,  maybe he would have had a chance against an Olympic athlete, because Sharna deserved the mirrorball that season.   

Lindsay is a different dancer. She created a very wholesome partnership with David last season and the voting public responded well.  When I review all of Jordan and Lindsay dances this season there were no dances of lustful longing, it was very much about dancing for others, but not for each other.  She had a father daughter vibe with David, and now a brother- sister vibe with Jordan.  For example their Rumba was a romantic dance but the partner had died,  Lindsay was a ghost, so the dance was more about grief and loss so there was no need to hold a stare, she was not there.   While the Samba was sexy it was jam packed with technique and did not go to lust to deliver the performance.  The only dance that disappointed was the Argentine Tango because it was a too lyrical tribute to a brother... blah it needed more grit and they got docked a couple of points for that.   But I think the show wanted to really go to a family friendly winner, rather than people trying to ship them or push a romance.  

Edited November 24, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[perfectstorm]

8 hours ago, rr2911 said:

All I know is the first couple of seasons, DWTS was geared towards the celebrities not knowing how to dance. I think after the first season the producers thought they better allow some dance experience on the show because of ratings. Remember, these shows are ratings driven. Jordan has been dancing during his career. He and Julianne Hough worked together on a Broadway production. She even mentioned that on the show. Great that he won. He was the better dancer, but of course there is a reason why isn't there? I just don't see the point in having celebrities that have or are currently dancing be part of the competition. What's the fun in that? You know who will probably be in the finals and most likely win.

The facts speaks for themselves.   Jordan Fisher now has the bad rep of winning in one of the worse rated seasons ever.

I think it's very telling when Frankie, who finished in 3rd place with no dance experience - gets chosen to go on the tour, along with Fisher.  Both Rashad and Laurie were the first picks from their seasons to go on tour.  Same with Rumer.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ifoundit

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can recognise Mark as a good, creative choreographer. But I don't really care for a lot of his dances, though, because they're too much: too themed, too costumed, too over the top, too much in your face. And it's every dance he does, not just once in awhile. While that might make for great exhibition dances, it rubs me the wrong way on DWTS. There's always been someone else that fits my expectations better.

That's certainly been true in his earliest seasons, and he was accused of over-dancing his partners too. But that wasn't the case this season with Lindsey. In fact I was surprised at how many simple, elegant, classic dances he choreographed without troupe members, props or other "messing about." He clearly has learned his lesson.

I think a lot of pros like Mark, Val and Maks have been doing this so long they can see the writing on the wall about half-way in and sort of check out mentally. I really can't say that I blame them. When you already know who's going to win, and you know it isn't you, it's got to be pretty hard to keep going through the motions when you still have four or five weeks ahead of you. I have no doubt all the pros realized Jordan was going to win early on in the competition. That's gotta be tough.

[boyznkatz]

I don't think anyone is "chosen" to go on tour. I think they would gladly take anyone who was willing to go. Funny how they amp up the pimping once someone commits to going, though.

[Andiethewestie]

50 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think a lot of pros like Mark, Val and Maks have been doing this so long they can see the writing on the wall about half-way in and sort of check out mentally.

Maks has been checking out from the first week.  But Mark, nah, I think the guy really wanted this. He didn't do much press after the show.  I really think he wanted to come back and prove that his work would be rewarded.  If he checked out he wouldn't have created that Freestyle.  

[rr2911]

10 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Jordan was on a TV show with Julianne,  Grease Live, and he was notable for singing on that show.   

Except that a lot of times the better dancers get kicked off early or in quarter finals.  There's little fun in that.  I'm so glad that a young vibrant dancer like Jordan actually made it to the finals, and he had the fanbase to take him there.

Yes I do remember several celebs with dance experience exiting in the quarters. However, weren't most of those or even all of those dance experience celebs women? I still think most fans of DWTS are women and something about a female celeb having dancing experience sets off some steam among the female fans...lol! Straight to the point, Jordan obviously was the best dancer out there but this is a popularity contest at its best. 

[perfectstorm]

Unlike Rashad, Laurie, Rumer - Jordan wouldn't have the fan base to pay to see him on tour.   That's why this is the first season they included 2 stars.  As an obvious ringer, him winning had more to do with Lyndsey Arnold being the sentimental favorite who was overdue for a win.  Otherwise, he would have suffered Normadi's fate from last season.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ifoundit

[Andiethewestie]

1 hour ago, ifoundit said:

Unlike Rashad, Laurie, Rumer - Jordan wouldn't have the fan base to pay to see him on tour.   That's why this is the first season they included 2 stars.  As an obvious ringer, him winning had more to do with Lyndsey Arnold being the sentimental favorite who was overdue for a win.  Otherwise, he would have suffered Normadi's fate from last season.

That's weird, because I bought tickets to see Jordan.  I would have preferred the show without Frankie.   And like when Melissa Rycroft and Rumer did some tour dates does that cancel out somebody's fanbase?

Edited November 24, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, ifoundit said:

Unlike Rashad, Laurie, Rumer - Jordan wouldn't have the fan base to pay to see him on tour.   That's why this is the first season they included 2 stars.  As an obvious ringer, him winning had more to do with Lyndsey Arnold being the sentimental favorite who was overdue for a win.  Otherwise, he would have suffered Normadi's fate from last season.

This is not the first year that there are two stars in the show.  The year that Alek went, Hayes was also on tour.  Neither one of them won and Hayes wasn't even in the finals.  It's true that Jordan probably did not have a big fan base going into the show.  The main audience is older.  I didn't know him and I watched Grease Live.  All I remember from that show was that it was inferior to the Grease movie with John and Olivia.  He had a small role in that show and he was mostly in the background.  He was featured singing one song.  I had to google that info.

I'm also thinking of buying tickets to see the DWTS tour.  It would be for Jordan not Frankie.   

[truthaboutluv]

25 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I'm also thinking of buying tickets to see the DWTS tour.  It would be for Jordan not Frankie.   

My best friend is considering it as well for the same reason. She had zero interest in the tour because she had zero interest in any of the Pros (and she really can't stand the troupe) performing but when they announced Jordan would do it, she said she might consider going. 

It's interesting when conspiracy theories are predicated on facts that well...aren't facts. Since as you noted, not only has the tour had more than one celebrity in the past, it hasn't only been winners, as evidenced by Hayes and Alek. It's really only been a handful of times that the winner has done some of the tour but it's been enough to suddenly make it a fact that the producers manipulate for whoever will do the tour, to win. It's right up there with the conspiracy theories that ABC was gearing up for some big show for Bindi and that's why the show apparently manipulated so hard for her to win.

And yet, said show/program never materialized and Bindi is still very much in Australia. And still some hold onto, "well things might have gone south with the plans". Or you know, more people voted for her and she won. 

 

Quote

As an obvious ringer, him winning had more to do with Lyndsey Arnold being the sentimental favorite who was overdue for a win.  Otherwise, he would have suffered Normadi's fate from last season.

I don't think it's ever been a secret that with this show, being paired with certain Pros works out better for a celebrity versus others and especially at this point, where the show has been on so long and so the Pros have established their own fanbase. After all, the celebrities are interchangeable season after season, while the Pros remain constant. 

[Andiethewestie]

2 hours ago, rr2911 said:

Yes I do remember several celebs with dance experience exiting in the quarters. However, weren't most of those or even all of those dance experience celebs women? I still think most fans of DWTS are women and something about a female celeb having dancing experience sets off some steam among the female fans...lol! Straight to the point, Jordan obviously was the best dancer out there but this is a popularity contest at its best. 

Well you made me look and here's what I found all these men with dance training prior to the show:

In season 6 Mario Barrett and Karina got knocked out just before the Quarter finals

In season 7  Disney Kid  Cody Linley and Julianne got knocked out in the Quarter finals

In season 9  Disney Kid Aaron Carter and Karina got sent packing

In season 12  Ralph Macchio who had some dance training got dramatically cut in the Quarter finals with Karina so that Disney girl Chelsea Kane might go further and also Romeo and Chelsie were cut just before the Quarter finals.

In season 14 Disney Kid  Roshon and Chelsie Hightower got cut in the Quarter finals

In season 18  Ice Dancer Charlie White and Sharna got cut in the semis

In season 21  Musical Theatre Kid and Grease Live Alum Carlos PenVega and Witney got cut in the semis

In season 22  Boys to Men Wanye  Morris and Lindsay were cut in the semis.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[howmanywords]

If you look at the tour discussion on Instagram, Facebook, etc there are TONS of people saying they are going for Jordan. I believe both will be beneficial to the tour. Some people will enjoy seeing both. I don't get this notion though that Frankie has some huge dedicated fan base. Obviously he was more of a "name" than Jordan at the start of the season but why assume he had this huge fan base willing to pay a lot of money that had nothing to do with his DWTS exposure? 

[Toonces464]

2 hours ago, realdancemom said:

This is not the first year that there are two stars in the show.  The year that Alek went, Hayes was also on tour.  Neither one of them won and Hayes wasn't even in the finals. 

I saw the tour back in 2009 and in those days they had several celebs in it.

[haje]

I'm a casual DWTS fan but 100% of the reason I bothered to tune into any of the performances this season was because I saw clips of Jordan's performances on youtube. Lindsay and Frankie would have made fine winners as well but I'm glad Jordan pulled through. I'm baffled by the claims I've seen the he's apparently the ringer-iest ringer to be on this show or that he's somehow a professional dancer when from what I've seen of him he's an actor/singer who has had dance experience. How is that any different than some of the people who have been on this show before? His role in Hamilton didn't require any significant dancing. The same goes for Grease Live. Suddenly, he wins and people are acting like it goes against the very essence of the show? The show where Scherzinger won? Meryl Davis won? Also, Jordan's "type" has gone on this show before and not won. Corbin didn't win his season and you could say he and Jordan are very much parallels of each other. The same goes for Zendaya. Just because someone has dance experience and churns out consistently good performances doesn't automatically mean they're going to win the show. Sometimes there are seasons where the "ringers" win the show and sometimes you get seasons where the "ringer" gets shockingly eliminated. This just happened to be the season where one of the so-called ringers won. There'll be other seasons where a non-ringer wins and I'm sure there will be viewers out there who will get angry because said non-ringer wasn't the best dancer but somehow won because they were likeable. Maybe the initial goal when the show started was to have celebrities with absolutely zero dance experience but this show is on its 25th season and it stopped being about that a long time ago.

Edited November 24, 2017 by haje

[crossover]

24 minutes ago, haje said:

Maybe the initial goal when the show started was to have celebrities with absolutely zero dance experience but this show is on its 25th season and it stopped being about that a long time ago.

Agree.  I think they realized they have better audience participation when there are so called ringers.  There's a natural conflict of dance talent vs non to go along with old vs young; male vs female etc.  Besides, people do like to see some good routines.

[Dobian]

Jordan this season was like Usain Bolt racing against a high school track team.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

I saw the tour back in 2009 and in those days they had several celebs in it.

I still kick myself that I missed the year the had Joey, Joey, Joey and Drew !

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

I think they realized they have better audience participation when there are so called ringers. 

I don't agree.

[crossover]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

Jordan this season was like Usain Bolt racing against a high school track team.

Kind of like Kristi, Nicole or Alfonso season.  At least Meryl had Charlie for a while.  He was as accomplished as she was.

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, crossover said:

Agree.  I think they realized they have better audience participation when there are so called ringers.  There's a natural conflict of dance talent vs non to go along with old vs young; male vs female etc.  Besides, people do like to see some good routines.

Agree.  I posted this before but it seems like we always have the same ringer vs. non-ringer discussion.  The show tries to get a variety of stars to please different people.  I watch the ringers.  I wouldn't be watching the show otherwise.

Also, stating that Jordan won because he's a ringer is taking away all the hard work that he and Lindsay did.  They could have easily done simpler routines.  Just watering down their routines a little would have still made their routines difficult.  Also except for the first Charleston, she gave Jordan proper content so that he had to learn proper standard and Latin ballroom technique.  Even his AT had recognizable AT dance moves even though it didn't have the proper feel.  The first Charleston and AT were hindered by the song and theme.  He did not have ballroom training.  Anybody that has watched SYTYCD has seen that just because somebody is trained in dance doesn't mean they will be good in ballroom.  I would argue that those that appear in that show have more dance training than Jordan.  Jordan studied at a musical theater school.  They usually emphasize acting and singing over dance.  The dancing is usually very simple so that everyone looks in sync.  Did you see his dance clip when he was 11?  It wasn't very good.    

[crossover]

34 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I don't agree.

You're entitled.  It just seems like some people are just as likely to vote against someone as they are for someone.  So if you really don't like ringers, you'll make sure to support the best person who isn't a ringer.

[SnarkyTart]

Just to add a little something into the mix.  I shared Thanksgiving dinner with an extended family of a little over twenty adults that wouldn't object to being labeled as largely conservative.  At one point, I brought the conversation around to DWTS.  About half of them, mostly the women, had seen at least one episode of this season's show.    Not one of them knew who Jordan Fisher was, other than roughly ten people (mostly women) who knew of him only from watching DWTS.  Of those ten, not one of them had ever heard of him before DWTS.  Here's where it got interesting, at least for me. Almost ALL of the twenty plus people at the dinner table had heard of the Broadway musical "Hamilton", though not one of them had seen it, nor could name any cast member.  Why they all knew of Hamilton was this: "That's the play that VP Pence walked out of because the cast all insulted him during the show!"  I would surmise from this that if Jordan were known by more of the DWTS audience as a Hamilton cast member, it might reasonably be said that he was an ANTI-ringer.  The demographic that kept Bristol Palin in so long is the same demographic that would never have voted for Jordan.

[Andiethewestie]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

Kind of like Kristi, Nicole or Alfonso season.  At least Meryl had Charlie for a while.  He was as accomplished as she was.

Nah, those people were all well known to the demographic.  Kristi being an athlete is revered on this show,  Nicole a platinum selling lead singer,  Alfonso a huge nostalgia ringer like Donny Osmond and Jennifer Grey.  

Jordon is a Disney Kid, and Disney Kids are more often than not the surprise elimination. occasionally top 3, never a winner.  What he did  do is become the youngest male to win and to break through and grow his fan base every week. . 

[Snarklepuss]

46 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

Just to add a little something into the mix.  I shared Thanksgiving dinner with an extended family of a little over twenty adults that wouldn't object to being labeled as largely conservative.  At one point, I brought the conversation around to DWTS.  About half of them, mostly the women, had seen at least one episode of this season's show.    Not one of them knew who Jordan Fisher was, other than roughly ten people (mostly women) who knew of him only from watching DWTS.  Of those ten, not one of them had ever heard of him before DWTS.  Here's where it got interesting, at least for me. Almost ALL of the twenty plus people at the dinner table had heard of the Broadway musical "Hamilton", though not one of them had seen it, nor could name any cast member.  Why they all knew of Hamilton was this: "That's the play that VP Pence walked out of because the cast all insulted him during the show!"  I would surmise from this that if Jordan were known by more of the DWTS audience as a Hamilton cast member, it might reasonably be said that he was an ANTI-ringer.  The demographic that kept Bristol Palin in so long is the same demographic that would never have voted for Jordan.

A lot of the DWTS audience is made up of women, which if influenced by politics would probably give Jordan an advantage judging from how women tend to vote in political elections, even the one last year.  But I don't even think in his case politics would have kept a lot of people from voting for him no matter their political affiliations.  I am sure there are a lot of audience members out there that would vote for him based on talent and wouldn't care about his politics.  They also wouldn't care if he was a ringer or not or have to be aware of his Broadway show in order to get enthusiastic about him.  This show isn't about politics and I'm sure a lot of people refuse to punish someone that talented on a dancing competition for not agreeing with their politics.  I think a lot of people just don't work that way.  When someone stands out that far ahead of the pack I think people feel obligated to reward that, and justifiably so.  I think it would have taken someone with a really huge fan base to counter that and Frankie and Lindsay just aren't in that category.  Jordan is such an amazing talent, that I would have been shocked if he didn't win!

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, SnarkyTart said:

Just to add a little something into the mix.  I shared Thanksgiving dinner with an extended family of a little over twenty adults that wouldn't object to being labeled as largely conservative.  At one point, I brought the conversation around to DWTS.  About half of them, mostly the women, had seen at least one episode of this season's show.    Not one of them knew who Jordan Fisher was, other than roughly ten people (mostly women) who knew of him only from watching DWTS.  Of those ten, not one of them had ever heard of him before DWTS.  Here's where it got interesting, at least for me. Almost ALL of the twenty plus people at the dinner table had heard of the Broadway musical "Hamilton", though not one of them had seen it, nor could name any cast member.  Why they all knew of Hamilton was this: "That's the play that VP Pence walked out of because the cast all insulted him during the show!"  I would surmise from this that if Jordan were known by more of the DWTS audience as a Hamilton cast member, it might reasonably be said that he was an ANTI-ringer.  The demographic that kept Bristol Palin in so long is the same demographic that would never have voted for Jordan.

Thank you for sharing! Wow. Can you imagine if "America" had made the connection your extended family did? I wonder what would have happened.I always find it interesting when conversations about things like DWTS or other pop culture issues arise in natural environments and I love to see how people react or hear about their opinions (i.e. "wow, so cool they know about XYZ" or "Interesting - never thought of it that way").

You also made me remember the TWO TIMES Bristol Palin was on our TV screens for way too long! Thanks a lot! (hahaha - kidding!!)

Part of me suspects that Mark created the  "dress like a gorilla" routine on purpose, just so he would be able to finally be eliminated. It was beyond painful to watch her on both seasons. If she was a decent dancer, or even made it look (to me) like she was into it or wanted to learn to dance, perhaps I could have been more mature and enjoyed the show while "agreeing to disagree with her and her family's belief system", but she wasn't, so I couldn't. :) All I can remember about her rehearsal footage is that she wore white socks to practice with Mark. I really wonder what made her do the show. Money? I don't recall her having any "Hollywood ambitions", but I could be wrong. I honestly wonder what motivated her to do it. I do have to admit that I think it was great for her to put herself out there like that - twice! Even if she ignored the media during her time on the show, clearly she had to know she was struggling. 

Even with the "Keo stalker" Barbara Corcoran, Chris Kattan and his limited mobility, Wynonna Judd literally walking instead of dancing and Master P and his craziness, BP still stands out to me as the one who I just COULD NOT WATCH, even on mute. 

If Mark writes a book in the future, I am hoping he goes into depth about his partnership with BP. I want to know what he really thought! 

[MsJamieDornan]

51 minutes ago, Bridget said:

Part of me suspects that Mark created the  "dress like a gorilla" routine on purpose, just so he would be able to finally be eliminated

Mark has mentioned TPTB has a hand in that.

[calipiano81]

6 hours ago, Dobian said:

Jordan this season was like Usain Bolt racing against a high school track team.

The dismissiveness of Lindsey S. has bothered me all season. She may not have danced as perfectly as Jordan, but she was naturally talented and the difficulty and content of her routines, as a whole over the season, were right up there with Jordan's. (I would even argue that her AT, tango, and paso doble were more difficult than Jordan's respective ones.)

Lindsey was also a very good performer, sweet, relatable, and had a great partnership with Mark. All of these things together made her legitimate competition to Jordan. And who knows what would have happened if she hadn't gotten injured or started her tour during the last two weeks. Some are quick to lump her in with Jordan regarding having dance experience, but don't want to give her credit for helping to make this season a very interesting one.

IMO, if you want to stick with the racing analogy, Jordan was like Usain Bolt and Lindsey ended up like USA's Justin Gatlin.

Edited November 25, 2017 by calipiano81

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, calipiano81 said:

The dismissiveness of Lindsey S. has bothered me all season. She may not have danced as perfectly as Jordan, but she was naturally talented and the difficulty and content of her routines, as a whole over the season, were right up there with Jordan's. (I would even argue that her AT, tango, and paso doble were more difficult than Jordan's respective ones.)

I thought Lindsey's freestyle was the best and certainly the one I'll remember this season over Jordan's.  Hers was all about who she is and the dance was choreographed around that.  His was flashy and athletic, but half of it was him pretty much dancing by himself which to me was self-indulgent and not what *pairs* ballroom dancing is about at all.  It was a Vegas show.

[MsJamieDornan]

9 hours ago, crossover said:

It just seems like some people are just as likely to vote against someone as they are for someone

That seems to be very true !

[littlecowgirl93]

7 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

The dismissiveness of Lindsey S. has bothered me all season. She may not have danced as perfectly as Jordan, but she was naturally talented and the difficulty and content of her routines, as a whole over the season, were right up there with Jordan's. (I would even argue that her AT, tango, and paso doble were more difficult than Jordan's respective ones.)

Lindsey was also a very good performer, sweet, relatable, and had a great partnership with Mark. All of these things together made her legitimate competition to Jordan. And who knows what would have happened if she hadn't gotten injured or started her tour during the last two weeks. Some are quick to lump her in with Jordan regarding having dance experience, but don't want to give her credit for helping to make this season a very interesting one.

IMO, if you want to stick with the racing analogy, Jordan was like Usain Bolt and Lindsey ended up like USA's Justin Gatlin.

This ^ ❤️ Well put!

[Toonces464]

7 hours ago, Dobian said:

His was flashy and athletic, but half of it was him pretty much dancing by himself which to me was self-indulgent and not what *pairs* ballroom dancing is about at all.  It was a Vegas show.

The freestyle is not about "pairs" ballroom dancing and never has been. It's their chance to do something different. You could say Alfonso's tap dance solo in his freestyle to be self-indulgent as well. Or really anyone who's done a solo in their freestyle.

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

The dismissiveness of Lindsey S. has bothered me all season. She may not have danced as perfectly as Jordan, but she was naturally talented and the difficulty and content of her routines, as a whole over the season, were right up there with Jordan's. (I would even argue that her AT, tango, and paso doble were more difficult than Jordan's respective ones.)

Lindsey was also a very good performer, sweet, relatable, and had a great partnership with Mark. All of these things together made her legitimate competition to Jordan. And who knows what would have happened if she hadn't gotten injured or started her tour during the last two weeks. Some are quick to lump her in with Jordan regarding having dance experience, but don't want to give her credit for helping to make this season a very interesting one.

IMO, if you want to stick with the racing analogy, Jordan was like Usain Bolt and Lindsey ended up like USA's Justin Gatlin.

I agree. I think Lindsey personally had choreography that was more diverse and just as difficult as Jordan's, and she performed quite well. Even though she had more off weeks than Jordan, her dances have always been more memorable to me. In terms of the freestyle specifically, Jordan's felt like any other dance he's done this season: good, but all pretty similar. I think, for me, Jordan's been consistent all season, which is good and deserving of his win, but not in terms of what dances I'll remember of his. Except for his Salsa, which is everything I love in that style, his dances haven't stuck out in my mind. I haven't seen much of Mark's previous seasons, besides some of his dances here and there, but what I do notice he does is try to make certain dances stand out so that people remember them. Whether or not it always works is a different question, but I do remember more of his dances with Lindsey this season than Jordan/Lindsay. And that's not a knock on Lindsay at all. They have different ways of approaching choreography. Lindsay, in particular, goes for lifts in order to stand out. 

I just find that Mark pushes more in the creative side and I think that works because he makes those dances stand out. Lindsey's freestyle will stand out because of how he made it about Lindsey and what she's known for, which resonates with her audience. For me, I'm very much an average or casual watcher, which means I won't know about exact dance steps, movements, or the particular styles in a detailed sense. I know good dancing from bad dancing, but that's about the extent of my dance knowledge. I personally have my sights on what catches my attention and what makes me happy. And I think everyone's definition of an enjoyable dance will be somewhat different. I'm sure people who know dance to an extensive amount and/or have been fans of this show from the beginning will be enjoying Jordan the most because he's the best technical celeb dancer. Others may enjoy celebs like Frankie because of his enthusiasm and his slow growth, as well as him being better than expected in week 1. Others may enjoy celebs like Lindsey because she's a strong dancer with a unique personality that stands out in her dances. 

And you know what? That's ok. That's what makes the show. Everyone likes different celebrities for different reasons, and they may dislike other celebrities for different reasons. Some like the so-called ringers because they're better dancers and are more enjoyable to watch. Some may like seeing people grow and change, despite the fact that they may not be the best dancers. 

But I think we can all agree that celebs like Barbara are gross and should be eliminated early on.

[Andiethewestie]

IMHO Lindsey Sterling was a good partner and yes they had a strong artistic collaboration, but in terms of dance technique she was not Mark's best partner. For me her last Quickstep was simple footwork and flawed in comparison to what had been done on the show, and I am surprised she got a 40, but I think the show wanted to let the fans decide between her and Jordan.

YMMV but for me Kristi Yamaguchi still stands out as Mark's best with Paige Van Zant and Shawn Johnson right behind her.  With Paige I think the pain was real because she lost to an inferior dancer.  With Lindsey it was painful to not have his choreography win the mirrorball.  

 Jordan Fisher is by far Lindsay's best partner and they could demonstrate a consistent high level of just dancing every week.   For me all the "artistry" is in the dancing.  I think Lindsay knew that, and kept the dances about that over gimmicks and robotics.  I think the show has finally got a Disney kid a win for the following reasons:. 

  1. They kept it to dance, ignored the ringer talk and just put the best product they could out there every week.

   2. In rehearsals Jordan remained a student to Lindsay's teaching -- not making the mistakes of Sabrina and Corbin before him.   

   3. They kept the dances family friendly- no drama- no shipping 

   4. We got a female pro who was finally allowed to build up a consistent fan base  in her own right,  4th 3rd 2nd to 1st 

   5. The show still got to plug their Disney  brand by permitting a Disney song sung by Jordan for the Foxtrot. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[crossover]

12 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Nah, those people were all well known to the demographic.  Kristi being an athlete is revered on this show,  Nicole a platinum selling lead singer,  Alfonso a huge nostalgia ringer like Donny Osmond and Jennifer Grey.  

Jordon is a Disney Kid, and Disney Kids are more often than not the surprise elimination. occasionally top 3, never a winner.  What he did  do is become the youngest male to win and to break through and grow his fan base every week. . 

I was looking more at the dance aptitude of the cast during their season.  I'm one of those who believe it is best to be good and have the best fanbase (e.g., Donny/Amber) than to be the best and have a good fanbase (e.g., Mya/Corbin).  Kristi, Nicole, Jennifer and Alfonso were the best, had huge fanbases and are well-known. They were kind of untouchable.  They also didn't have competitors equal to their dance ability during their season.  Meryl was in this group once Charlie left.

But I do agree with your thinking.  And we finally got a disney kid, male in his early 20s to win.

[rr2911]

I get this show is about the ratings and probably needs ringers, but there should be some tweaking to make the playing field tilted towards even. I don't know if these ideas would do the trick but these some suggestions I would like to see:

1. Have two winners. A male winner and a female winner! Their steps and routines are different so how can one judge who performed better?

2. Hold a "selection show". ABC could have a 1 hour show just to hold a selection party. The pros would select a celebrity out of a bowl (without looking of course). Whoever they select that will be their partner. Of course the male pros and the female pros would pick separately. No more Derek Hough partnering with the best celebrities anymore. (I don't think Derek's dancing on the show anymore), but you get the point.

3. Don't have such a diverse group of celebs! In other words, if the show wants a Jordan type celeb, then don't have someone like  Barbara Corcoran (Shark Tank) on the show. Obvious mismatch. If the show is going to have ringers then maybe have a show with all ringers or at least some experience.

4. Maybe the show should eliminate the "jazz" and "contemporary" categories. Someone like Jordan has a huge advantage in my opinion. The show might be better off sticking to ballroom dancing.

Okay, let the tomatoes start flying..lol! 

[Andiethewestie]

18 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

4. Maybe the show should eliminate the "jazz" and "contemporary" categories. Someone like Jordan has a huge advantage in my opinion. The show might be better off sticking to ballroom dancing.

If these catagories were eliminated, Jordan dominated the ballroom and latin sections with superior technique. So, if you save Jazz and Contemporary for the Freestyle he would have made an even bigger impact.  A talented dancer like Jordan would have been the best regardless of the machinations. 

[realdancemom]

34 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

2. Hold a "selection show". ABC could have a 1 hour show just to hold a selection party. The pros would select a celebrity out of a bowl (without looking of course). Whoever they select that will be their partner. Of course the male pros and the female pros would pick separately. No more Derek Hough partnering with the best celebrities anymore. (I don't think Derek's dancing on the show anymore), but you get the point.

I get why you said this but it won't work.  First, you have to look at height.  Sasha can only get the shorter females.  Witney gets the shorter males.  The taller guys like Drew and Calvin need the taller females.  Even getting Emma and Lindsay, Drew and Calvin were towering over them.

Maks can't get somebody like Victoria.  He has no patience.

Stars like Gary Busey shouldn't have pros like Witney and Lindsay.  They are too young.  He needed somebody like Anna who is a tough taskmaster.  Even somebody like Kym wouldn't have been a good match.  She's older but sweet.  So she gets stars like Mister T and Robert.

Derek did get a lot of ringers.  However, because of his reputation, there were stars that specifically asked for him.  They were the bigger stars too so if the show wanted to book them, then they needed to give them Derek.  I feel bad that certain males like Tony and Keo get stuck with the difficult or older stars.  However, I would also argue that Keo hasn't proven himself to be that great of a choreographer.  At least, even when Lindsay had Alek or David that are not good dancers, she was till able to create choreography that suited them and was interesting.  I think the one routine that stood out for me with Keo was when he and Jodi did a contemporary routine to Pink's song.  Tony also was a traditional choreographer.  I would argue that Maks is too.  So while they are good with ballroom routines, the show is moving more towards a fusion ballroom show pieces.

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

IMHO Lindsey Sterling was a good partner and yes they had a strong artistic collaboration, but in terms of dance technique she was not Mark's best partner. For me her last Quickstep was simple footwork and flawed in comparison to what had been done on the show, and I am surprised she got a 40, but I think the show wanted to let the fans decide between her and Jordan.

YMMV but for me Kristi Yamaguchi still stands out as Mark's best with Paige Van Zant and Shawn Johnson right behind her.  With Paige I think the pain was real because she lost to an inferior dancer.  With Lindsey it was painful to not have his choreography win the mirrorball.  

 Jordan Fisher is by far Lindsay's best partner and they could demonstrate a consistent high level of just dancing every week.   For me all the "artistry" is in the dancing.  I think Lindsay knew that, and kept the dances about that over gimmicks and robotics.  I think the show has finally got a Disney kid a win for the following reasons:. 

  1. They kept it to dance, ignored the ringer talk and just put the best product they could out there every week.

   2. In rehearsals Jordan remained a student to Lindsay's teaching -- not making the mistakes of Sabrina and Corbin before him.   

   3. They kept the dances family friendly- no drama- no shipping 

   4. We got a female pro who was finally allowed to build up a consistent fan base  in her own right,  4th 3rd 2nd to 1st 

   5. The show still got to plug their Disney  brand by permitting a Disney song sung by Jordan for the Foxtrot. 

I didn't think that Jordan had it in the bag as a ringer.  He didn't come in with a big fan base.  Also, while he was good at the beginning, their routines became increasingly difficult as the weeks went by.  Lindsey was also a good dancer.  As I previously posted, I think she could have won because of her freestyle and if she didn't get injured.  I think that was the turning point.  Before that, there was even a segment where Jordan and Lindsay were saying that he and Lindsey (the star) were trading places in the leader board.  If Lindsey came in with a bigger fan base like Donny or Amber, she would have definitely won.  If Drew was a better dancer, he probably would have won.

I think the trio week is the one that started giving Jordan the edge.  That was the week that he did the quickstep and the Salsa trio with Corbin.  The quickstep was outstanding even though I didn't like the spinning circles on the floor.    But the Salsa trio was the real standout.  That's the routine that I just kept watching a bunch of times on youtube.  Other people must have felt like me because it has tons of views on youtube and FB.  There were also lots of shares.  Unfortunately, that was the week that Lindsey had the Samba and the trio with Kristi.  I didn't watch Kristi's season so I'll take your word for it that she was Mark's best partner technically.  Just watching the trio dance, you can see the difference in Kristi's and Lindsey's technique which I pointed out in previous posts.

I did watch Paige's season and she was definitely the best technically.  I was rooting for her.  I loved their AT and jive.  It was difficult to beat Nyle's story and I did like his freestyle.  I think Mark should have done a more creative fun freestyle for Paige.  But it might not have mattered anyway.  This season, I think Victoria could have been in the finals if she was a more dynamic performer.  Also, people couldn't see her injuries like they could with Amy and Noah.  People seem to like inspirational stories.  However, I didn't want to see a contemporary as a freestyle which I'm sure Val would have done.  Although, I think it would have been a mistake since they just did a contemporary trio the week before.  Or maybe, Val had a feeling that it was her last week so that's why they did a contemporary that week.  They were originally scheduled to do a waltz or other dance.  

Anyway, all this rambling is to say that there are many reasons why people win.  It's not always the best technical dancer.