S03.E06: eps3.5_kill-process.inc

[Princess Sparkle]

Quote

 

Elliot faces off with Mr. Robot; Dom gets tired of the red tape; Tyrell has a new plan.

 

 

 

[Cardie]

All Elliot's efforts these last few episodes go for naught! I wonder where the story is heading next.

When he and Angela squared off, it was hysterical to watch the big, bug-eye competition between them.

The cross-cutting among the storylines would have made D.W. Griffith smile.

[green]

We finally see what Esmail mentioned last week was it right after the show regards the relationship between Elliot and Mr Robot.  He said they fought each other last season but this season they must figure out how to work together.  And there it was.  Memo to self didn't go well at first but in the end we have our All-Star "Team Elliot" ready to take on Whiterose ... maybe.  (You never know with this show).

Okay before they team up it was pretty hilarious to see Elliot running around banging his head and throwing himself into walls.  I'm not usually into physical comedy but Rami was outstanding with his ability to turn Elliot into a rag doll like person running down that hall.  I was laughing like crazy.  Also the poor guy in the Computer Room seeing Elliot keep showing back up like he was experiencing Groundhog Day with a lunatic.  Which he kind of was.

So Whiterose played the Evil Corp CEO (never remember the guy's name) by blowing up 71 of his buildings instead of the one the CEO thought he was going to do?  That was a total surprise for me.

The actor that played Angela as a girl actually was capable of showing emotion.  She should give the one playing the grown-up Angela some lessons asap.

The FBI chief (Santiago I think his name is) is going to have to have a heart-to-heart with himself.  71 buildings wasn't what he thought was going down (literally going down) so will he remain hardcore Whiterose?  He had that phone call to his mom which says he has a heart inside of him somewhere.  And Dom is getting closer and closer to truths.  Will Santiago be a loyal soldier to the end for Whiterose or will he have second thoughts now?  Did Whiterose threaten his mother originally to get him aboard btw?  Nothing on the show is shown for nothing and that call to his mom intrigued me.

I'm not sure what was on the piece of paper Tyrell got.  Was it a ruse to send him off to save the people in the building so he'd get caught and be the fall guy?  I mean didn't he know it was going to be blown up with people inside it all along?  So why did he suddenly want to run out and save those people?  Especially since the building wasn't the real target after all?  Did it tell him his wife was dead and he was kicked out of the cool kids club at the same time?  Or was it some other set-up for him to be the patsy for the 71 buildings that did blow up?  I didn't get that part at all.

Edited November 17, 2017 by green

[benteen]

Great episode!  Even better than last week.  Great storyline for everyone and it'll be intriguing to see the fallout from here.

I must admit, I remember watching the Back to the Future cartoon in the beginning.  Always like the chance to see a flashback with Slater playing Elliot's dad.

Agreed about Rami's ability to do physical comedy.  Robot constantly fighting him like that was great and I laughed at the guy in the computer lab who freaked out and ran.

I'm curious about Tyrell too.  Was it a ruse or did he decide to do the right thing.  I suspect he learned the truth about Joanna and his son.

Edited November 16, 2017 by benteen

[Anela]

I figured the one building was a red herring - White Rose wouldn't limit this to one building. The whole episode still gave me goosebumps, though - especially the end. 

Tyrell finally decides to do the right thing. I also think they told him the truth about his family, on something in that envelope. Was he supposed to die in that back room? There's no way he would do that with his baby daughter still out there. I liked Dom ignoring her boss, and following her instincts. 

I was afraid they would use the interference to just cut out of the episode, when Angela and Darlene were looking at each other, and leave us to wonder what happened. So glad they didn't. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Anela

[possibilities]

I thought that Tyrell was trying to fake that he'd been kidnapped and held against his will (handcuff on the bed), then escaped, and act like he was trying to stop the attack, so the FBI would treat him as a cooperative informant-- it was a ploy to save himself. It's confusing because if he survives, he truly can inform on the conspiracy. But if White Rose et al wanted him dead, surely they would have killed him in the basement. So why didn't they? Did they want the details exposed?

I agree that the physical comedy was great -- even though it was tragic and terrible and I feel I shouldn't laugh about it, it was amazingly well executed. Malek is really good at both the subtle and the goofy acting challenges of this show.

I thought Young Angela was also fabulously executed. The actress did a great job of mimicking Adult Angela's affect, tone, mannerisms, and personality. I had no trouble imagining that Adult Angela was the progression of her evolution as her grief and trauma grew and she kind of froze and hardened into the robotic person she is now, who occasionally has momentary cracks of emotion and then seals them up tight. Kudos to her and to whoever did the directing.

I am not accepting that Elliot's "imaginary friend" is just that. I think it's another personality, maybe one he's already learned to co-operate with. That's how you integrate as a multiple; you establish communication and co-operation until everybody comes together. It's the only way to stop losing time and get on a unified trajectory.

[Andy]

I thought this was another awesome episode.  The flashback, although downright creepy (dying party?), provided insight into how Angela got the way she is.  Portia  takes a lot of grief for being so expressionless, but I think that's the fractured state of mind of the character. 

I was at first  concerned that the whole episode would be a flashback and  was glad it wasn't. Too much flashback would have really killed the momentum. 

After Elliot stopped the NY attack it was so anticlimactic that something had to be up.  I admit the magnitude of that something caught me off guard.  

Loved the Elliot/Mr Robot battles, although the banging off the walls scene was a bit long for me.  I got the point, and nothing new was being added.  

Irving was a great addition this year.  I never got into Ray, but Irving is a compelling character.  

Where do we go from here?  The options are many and the rest of the season should be exciting.  I wonder if we will see Mobley and Trenton again?  I hope they are not dead and return.

[meep.meep]

How does Malek do that with his eyes?  He becomes a cartoon character literally.   In the flashback to the party, it was great that they cast someone as Angela's mother who also has really big eyes.

[Anela]

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/15/16651136/mr-robot-digital-after-show-martin-wallstrom-kor-adana-usa-network-youtube-livestream

[deewayne]

Lets not be naive, Tyrell is definitely still part of the dark army's plan, its all a ruse

[Milaxx]

ITA. I think the not Irving gave Tyrell was instructions to start that fire and like @possibilities said make it look like he'd been kidnapped and escaped. I don't think he knows just yet what happened to his wife & child. I think thin Irving was apologizing because this is not the way Tyrell thought things would happen.

As for the overall episode I'm rethinking the entire thing. WR has clearly been playing an over 10 year long con. I long suspected that Elliot's dad and Angela's mom were in on whatever gave them cancer at the Washington township plant and they bought into the whole time travel/parallel universe thing. It was Angela's mom who planted the seeds of accepting that way back when Angela was a child. It made her primed and ready for WR.  It also made me remember that WR never lets her plan be stopped. I thought about the guy in the cemetery who WR pissed on his grave. WR  had his plane crash for interfering. I also get the impression that WR is not only fully aware of the dual personalities in Elliot, but is using that to her benefit. I'm failry certain as soon as Elliot's redirection was discovered plans were out into place to blow the other buildings.

The most interesting part was watching Elliot fight Mr. Robot for control. I immediately thought of that chess scene back in the prison. All the games ended in stalemate and Mr. Robot said something about Elliot needing to accept that they are one and the same. It appears that Mr Robot opened that door for Elliot in the end.   I wonder if that's the hint of Mr. Robot working with/helping Eliot and possible persona assimilation.

[scowl]

When Dominique started talking about lunch, the music reminded me of a glowing car rising up into the air. 

Can't forget the end of that movie.

[Neurochick]

I think Whiterose is getting close to Bond villain status.  She’s an interesting character, but what’s her point, to take over the world?

I can see this show ending with Elliot as the new Whiterose or something.

[Mr. R0b0t]

First of all, loved the last few episodes and ramping up the tension and I am hoping this rainbow ends with multi-verses.  Having said that, no frickin way Mr. Robot doesnt simply hide the access card from Elliot.  It ends the mission right then and there in the taxi cab.  Also, Elliot was doing everything in his power to get noticed or have security called on him and nothing ever happened.  LOVE THIS SHOW.

[Luckylondon]

On 11/16/2017 at 11:18 PM, Neurochick said:

I think Whiterose is getting close to Bond villain status.  She’s an interesting character, but what’s her point, to take over the world?

I can see this show ending with Elliot as the new Whiterose or something.

I understand this. However, I think WR represents the REAL PUPPETMASTERS. We don't know them or their names, yet they pull the strings to make the big players we DO KNOW dance. Given that the show IS alluding to a "New World Order" one global economy (I think that has been established as a premise), the question is always who is involved? The CORPORATION- EVIL CORPORATION? Or is it the PEOPLE? And if it IS the people... WHO are they and how much control do they have? Do they know they are puppets (ehhhh... a little bit, but not fully)? And if it is not ECorp... then who is it? People like White Rose who don't want you to know their name. The Global Cabal is not run by Price and the other heads of corporate conglomerates or the government officials. Yes, they run things and get things done... however, the real power lies with those that we don't even know exist-- and if we do hear of them, they sound unbelievable, like a made up villain like White Rose and those who may know are easily dismissed because people say "that's not real" or "she's not real" or whatever. Her power lies in the shadows that the players don't even fully realize they are achieving her agenda. Yes, there are 6 companies which own almost all other companies in the world and the Council of 300 has a smaller council of 13 families from bloodlines. Yet the shadows are where the strings are being pulled to make those well known people move in the way that they want them too. They may feel their own actions are negotiations to achieve mutual goals; yet, we know from watching that they are manipulated like puppets, too, to achieve a larger agenda. For example, White Rose moving forward on Stage 2 and destroying Prince's "little company" (world conglomerate ECorp) in 1 day for no other reason than WR thinks "Price needs his hand slapped" to remind him who really is in control. If you follow cultural themes about the New World Order agenda or have at least heard of this, China IS their biggest problem. They don't want to play or acquiesce to demands. They are that large in size, population, wealth, and trans global investments to not be pushed in to a currency deal.  They have A LOT of global power. People like Price think they can negotiate diplomatically to reach a goal each wants; yet, China (or in this show, WR) laughs at us for this combination of entitled arrogance and näivity. I think this works well in the show and also reflects the globalsocioeconomic factors occurring in real life around us. 

This show is so well done in depicting all of these different TYPES of perceived power and what they can actually do versus what they are actually doing when the right strings are pulled-- they end up dancing to the tune of the string puller. All the world is a stage. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Luckylondon
Remove incorrect info

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Whiterose is getting close to Bond villain status.  She’s an interesting character, but what’s her point, to take over the world?

I'm thinking total apocacalypse. Destroy the world.
That would be a type of starting over. Plus, if nobody survives to remember the dead, it's as if it never happened. And it fits much better with the scientific realism of the show than time travel or alternate universes—not that I don't spend way too much of my time speculating about both—I just don't see this story as part of that genre.
And maybe it's just my last year's stage IV cancer perspective, but along with assuming a call to death-to-all, I can't help focusing on the moniker of "Stage 2." The cancer of the revolution of destruction has spread beyond the initial boundaries. 

I loved White Rose and Pierce dissing the owner of Mira Lago—the one person they could agree to loathe.

But I could use a little clarification from a careful watcher (or re-watcher): Were all the paper records that would have allowed the ECorps rebuild in those 71 buildings?
If so, that means Elliot (not Mr. Robot) was manipulated into stopping the shipments, right?

One more thing: Am I the only one who saw Elliot crashing into walls as not comedic? It was very Fight Club to me.

Edited November 17, 2017 by shapeshifter

[AngelKitty]

No, Shapeshifter, you are not. I found it disturbing. Elliot has a history of hurting himself by Mr. Robot.

Angela seems to think White Rose has the ability to do something to get her mother back. I don't know what and I can't remember what White Rose told her to make her believe that, but I will be surprised if this show has time travel or alternate universes. It's not Fringe, after all. 

[loki567]

Now I'm thinking Angela's just fucking nuts. The alternate universe thing was just something for White Rose to get Angela on her side in order to keep a lid on Elliot. Where's the value for White Rose to move to another universe when she's fairly close to being God Emperor of this one?  

The attack might be the one possible thing that could get Elliot, Mr. Robot, Dom, the FBI, Price, and E-Corp all on the same side which is going to be interesting to see. 

Probably my favorite scene this season was WR and Pryce sharing awkward small talk between their attempts of world domination. 

[Anela]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

One more thing: Am I the only one who saw Elliot crashing into walls as not comedic? It was very Fight Club to me.

I didn't find it funny, either. I made a pained sound when he fell down those steps, and hit the wall. 

[green]

4 hours ago, loki567 said:

Now I'm thinking Angela's just fucking nuts. The alternate universe thing was just something for White Rose to get Angela on her side in order to keep a lid on Elliot. Where's the value for White Rose to move to another universe when she's fairly close to being God Emperor of this one?  

The attack might be the one possible thing that could get Elliot, Mr. Robot, Dom, the FBI, Price, and E-Corp all on the same side which is going to be interesting to see. 

Probably my favorite scene this season was WR and Pryce sharing awkward small talk between their attempts of world domination. 

Being God Emperor of this world isn't going to last but a handful of years because Whiterose is mortal.  And obsessed with time because he/she knows that.  Yes CERN is a major player as well as other factors of cutting edge science as Whiterose attempts to conquer time.

And the flashback to Li'l Angela had a death party for her mother who told her they would meet again in another world.  That she, the mother, believed in that other world and wanted Angela to as well.  That says that her mother at least and probably Elliot's father both knew what the Washington Township Project was all about.  Or believed they did as in another world out of the time stream where everyone could be together forever like the science religion of heaven.

Funny though that the movers and shakers of the world really aren't.  They "control stuff" for less than a second in eternity and are controlled by their wishes and desires and fears so are slaves themselves.  Buddha said all life is suffering as the first of his four noble truths.  Why?  Because not only is there suffering from not getting what you want or getting something horrible you don't want but even if you get all that you think you want you will lose it in the end because it is all in time and will pass away. 

The rest of his noble truths are that (2) suffering arises from desire so (3) the way to end suffering is to end desire.  The fourth noble truth was his yogic practices he taught to escape the realm of maya and desire.  Lots more of course but I'm already way off topic ... well only kind of because ...

Whiterose and their ilk are diseased people who have no real power in the end because they are enslaved to desire and are mere transitory mortals trapped in time.  Whiterose does realize the trap of time in this drama at least so that puts him/her ahead of Evil Corp's CEO.  But in the end he/she is enslaved by desire and is therefore looking for nirvana in all the wrong places, hah.

Also to the person above that said China ruled the world for thousands of years.  Huh?  China barely ruled part of it's own current land mass for that amount of time and was usually warring with itself among various Chinese states like Europe was among various European states.  When not being invaded and overrun by the Mongols of course.  As well as long periods of what we would call today a "failed state" scenario playing out as order broke down. 

And outside of some invasions of Vietnam, the Chinese rarely went outside their cultural area looking to conquer other people.  Except for the brief period of their grand exploration and trade fleet -- and very brief it was, less than a generation at it's peak -- the Chinese were pretty inward looking isolationists who saw no need to go outside their large land base and co-mingle with "barbarians" on the whole.

Edited November 17, 2017 by green

[scrb]

This show is starting to have severe problems with plausibility.

First clue was when they attacked the FBI and there were no repercussions.  In real life, that would spark at least a diplomatic crisis.

But now, either the Chinese govt. or a faction within China which the govt. there is allowing to do whatever they want is going to attack US assets?

First of all, even if the US didn't go to war over such an attack, markets around the world would become volatile and there would be extreme economic consequences, which would hurt China as well as the rest of the global economy.

Why would China attack the interests of US, from which it derives so much money?  Or allow WR and the Dark Army to do so?

Secondly, why would the FBI or other US intelligence agencies allow WR and Dark Army to go around the US doing whatever it wants?  After the previous attack, they wouldn't give the Dark Army a lot of rope.

 

I have to wonder if Esmail isn't trying to sex-up a show about hackers with some action.  After all, how cinematic is it to stare at Elliott typing commands into a screen?  But if it's Elliott racing to stop an explosion?

OK, they have to make the storytelling more interesting than some guy interacting with a computer all the time, though I thought the first few episodes of the series showing how he hacks bad people was pretty well done.

So fine, put in some action sequences but at least make it plausible.  Maybe Elliott stops hacks by Russian hackers and he has to run for his life when Russian spies and mafia go after him and his family and friends.

But some alternate reality in which China is blatant imperial aggressor?  China can dominate economically without firing a shot.

[Andy]

I don't try to take this or most other shows as factual or plausible.  I enjoy this show for the creative masterpiece that it is to me. I deal with facts all day.  MR is an escape.

[Mr. R0b0t]

The more I think of it, the more I am leaning towards this show being a sleeper sci-fi show, much like Person of Interest was. I can't rationalize Angela being absolutely convinced of her and Elliot getting the life she believes they should have had.

[green]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

This show is starting to have severe problems with plausibility.

First clue was when they attacked the FBI and there were no repercussions.  In real life, that would spark at least a diplomatic crisis.

But now, either the Chinese govt. or a faction within China which the govt. there is allowing to do whatever they want is going to attack US assets?  ...

 

The Chinese government itself isn't doing this.  Whiterose may be a male Chinese minister by day but by night she runs the Dark Army that is her own thing.  She will use her position in the Chinese government to help her but this isn't a government launched attack.  This is Whiterose's show.  He can get the government to turn a blind eye maybe but they weren't involved in the attack directly.

And the Dark Army has been labeled a terrorist hacker group so why would China be blamed for the attack.  A number of it's citizens were killed in the attack too.  The Chinese would have been seen as victims in the attack.  Not as attackers.

Also after the hack the US economy is indeed in the toilet and the country in near chaos.  The rest of the world is in a mess too.  Probably China as well but Whiterose doesn't want to foul his own nest unless he has to probably.

The old order doesn't exist any more.  Nation states are almost obsolete in our real world with corporations really controlling politicians like puppets.  In this show Whiterose is trying to take control of the world one step further away from the elite 1% and into his/her own hands.  China is just his base of operations and a nice chess piece to use when needed.  I imagine he engineered the annex of the Congo for China not really for China but so he personally could get that special mineral he needs for his Washington Township Project 2.0 thing he is doing. 

So in some ways China is being played by him too.  They just come out ahead of the US.  And until lately Evil Corp seemed to be profiting from Whiterose too.  Not so much now.  China could be next to fall if Whiterose so chooses but it is a good base to operate from for now.  All nations including his native one are just chess pieces on Whiterose's chess board.  China is helpful for him now.  Things could change.

As for the FBI not stopping the Dark Army?  Well we know Santiago is in Whiterose's employ.  Dom has to keep breaking the rules and restrictions he sets up to protect Whiterose and the Dark Army from getting tracked down and caught.  She broke another one this episode by pretending to go out to eat at The Red Wheelbarrow when she just wanted to snoop around there for Tyrell.  And bingo, it worked.

Edited November 18, 2017 by green

[Luckylondon]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:24 AM, green said:

Being God Emperor of this world isn't going to last but a handful of years because Whiterose is mortal.  And obsessed with time because he/she knows that.  Yes CERN is a major player as well as other factors of cutting edge science as Whiterose attempts to conquer time.

And the flashback to Li'l Angela had a death party for her mother who told her they would meet again in another world.  That she, the mother, believed in that other world and wanted Angela to as well.  That says that her mother at least and probably Elliot's father both knew what the Washington Township Project was all about.  Or believed they did as in another world out of the time stream where everyone could be together forever like the science religion of heaven.

Funny though that the movers and shakers of the world really aren't.  They "control stuff" for less than a second in eternity and are controlled by their wishes and desires and fears so are slaves themselves.  Buddha said all life is suffering as the first of his four noble truths.  Why?  Because not only is there suffering from not getting what you want or getting something horrible you don't want but even if you get all that you think you want you will lose it in the end because it is all in time and will pass away. 

The rest of his noble truths are that (2) suffering arises from desire so (3) the way to end suffering is to end desire.  The fourth noble truth was his yogic practices he taught to escape the realm of maya and desire.  Lots more of course but I'm already way off topic ... well only kind of because ...

Whiterose and their ilk are diseased people who have no real power in the end because they are enslaved to desire and are mere transitory mortals trapped in time.  Whiterose does realize the trap of time in this drama at least so that puts him/her ahead of Evil Corp's CEO.  But in the end he/she is enslaved by desire and is therefore looking for nirvana in all the wrong places, hah.

Also to the person above that said China ruled the world for thousands of years.  Huh?  China barely ruled part of it's own current land mass for that amount of time and was usually warring with itself among various Chinese states like Europe was among various European states.  When not being invaded and overrun by the Mongols of course.  As well as long periods of what we would call today a "failed state" scenario playing out as order broke down. 

And outside of some invasions of Vietnam, the Chinese rarely went outside their cultural area looking to conquer other people.  Except for the brief period of their grand exploration and trade fleet -- and very brief it was, less than a generation at it's peak -- the Chinese were pretty inward looking isolationists who saw no need to go outside their large land base and co-mingle with "barbarians" on the whole.

This is a fantastic post and I wish I could like it 100 times. So very well said @green! I completely agree with what you assert here and I love how you articulated WR's potential perspective in relation to time and spirituality. Additionally, thank you for the correction on the history of China's approach to global politics. You articulated what I was trying to get at and did not because what you wrote is what I was thinking regarding China, yet I said/wrote it wrong due to laziness of not wanting to look for more information to get it right. Thank you! I amended that part of my post. 

I am loving this season and excited about the show again like I was in Season 1. I love reading what you all think of the show and your reactions and impressions. The topic is real enough to feel socially and culturally relevant because we are becoming aware in the news, at least, that ALL OF THIS *IS* actually happening in real life and how government is protecting business instead of people AND how foreign governments are exploiting our penchant for getting on a soapbox and shouting to those among us who share the same ideas and ignoring those who don't. This is the exact type of psychological operations our own government is desperate to find and use to manipulate the minds of our enemies without using physical force and/or create technological hacks and viral infections that can wipe out the utility grid of entire countries to crush their ability to function (e.g. Stuxnet virus in Iran), if needed. We now know that Russia DID interfere with our electoral process and did buy advertising and spend Human Resources on BOTH sides of civil rights issues in order to provide kindling and stoke the fire of our attention and ire on each other, rather than focusing on what they were doing in the shadows. Thus, because the show is a scripted drama and depicts a semi-post- apocalyptic version of a future after 5/9, it is at an arms length enough distance for the show to be exciting and thrilling, and it can function as an entertaining, illuminating, cautionary parable of how slippery the slope is when "the end justifies the means."

Edited November 18, 2017 by Luckylondon

[DARLENE13]

My thoughts: The anonymous donor offering to pay for Angela's mother's treatment (and making her husband storm off) was Phillip Price because he and she had an affair and Angela is his daughter. I felt Elliot's pain when he realized the full extent of Angela's betrayal. I was wondering how White Rose would respond to Elliot moving the shipments, and I think I got my answer after seeing 71 buildings blown up! Holy shit! I was standing up in front of the tv watching the last few minutes. Amazing. ALSO was this Tyrel's plan? I kept thinking that the Dark Army instructed him to warn people about an attack so that the blame would be pinned on him, just like the 5/9 attack, taking heat off the Dark Army. Hmmm! 

*Side note: I recently read an interesting theory... the concern White Rose shows as Phillip Price is leaving... it's possible maybe that wasn't his plan... maybe Price is planning to create a terrorist attack on 71 of his buildings to blame on China to start a war with them? It's a stretch, but I enjoy all the different theories and possible outcomes this show gives us. 

 

Season 3 is a masterpiece! Best thing on Television! Kill Process ☆☆☆☆

Edited November 18, 2017 by DARLENE13

[mtlchick]

Since I'm a casual watcher of this show and eventually will have to find time to binge watch it all, I did want to mention I enjoy the subtleties and hilarious in the subway posters.  This one had "Kaitlin Doubleday in Repulsion, A New Play" (I miss her so much on Empire.) 

[diebartdie]

On 11/17/2017 at 2:07 AM, shapeshifter said:

I loved White Rose and Pierce dissing the owner of Mira Lago—the one person they could agree to loathe.

But I could use a little clarification from a careful watcher (or re-watcher): Were all the paper records that would have allowed the ECorps rebuild in those 71 buildings?
If so, that means Elliot (not Mr. Robot) was manipulated into stopping the shipments, right?

One more thing: Am I the only one who saw Elliot crashing into walls as not comedic? It was very Fight Club to me.

No, Elliot really surprised the Dark Army when he managed to keep the paper records from going to that one central location. Had they all gone to that one place, far fewer people would have died.

5 hours ago, DARLENE13 said:

I was wondering how White Rose would respond to Elliot moving the shipments, and I think I got my answer after seeing 71 buildings blown up! Holy shit! I was standing up in front of the tv watching the last few minutes. Amazing. ALSO was this Tyrel's plan? I kept thinking that the Dark Army instructed him to warn people about an attack so that the blame would be pinned on him, just like the 5/9 attack, taking heat off the Dark Army. Hmmm! 

 

Yes this had to be Tyrell's plan, the one he came up with on the spot when he had his crisis of faith with Irvin. Remember that scene, Irvin remarked to Tyrell that perhaps Tyrell was wrong thinking that both he and Elliot were gods, maybe only Tyrell was a god. Right then and there, Tyrell saw a way to "make it right", Tyrell caused those 71 buildings to blow up. I think your observation that his instructions that he burned up were to do what he did, the way he did was ultimately to throw the FBI off the Dark Army.

[Milaxx]

On 11/17/2017 at 1:42 AM, Luckylondon said:

I understand this. However, I think WR represents the REAL PUPPETMASTERS. We don't know them or their names, yet they pull the strings to make the big players we DO KNOW dance. Given that the show IS alluding to a "New World Order" one global economy (I think that has been established as a premise), the question is always who is involved? The CORPORATION- EVIL CORPORATION? Or is it the PEOPLE? And if it IS the people... WHO are they and how much control do they have? Do they know they are puppets (ehhhh... a little bit, but not fully)? And if it is not ECorp... then who is it? People like White Rose who don't want you to know their name. The Global Cabal is not run by Price and the other heads of corporate conglomerates or the government officials. Yes, they run things and get things done... however, the real power lies with those that we don't even know exist-- and if we do hear of them, they sound unbelievable, like a made up villain like White Rose and those who may know are easily dismissed because people say "that's not real" or "she's not real" or whatever. Her power lies in the shadows that the players don't even fully realize they are achieving her agenda. Yes, there are 6 companies which own almost all other companies in the world and the Council of 300 has a smaller council of 13 families from bloodlines. Yet the shadows are where the strings are being pulled to make those well known people move in the way that they want them too. They may feel their own actions are negotiations to achieve mutual goals; yet, we know from watching that they are manipulated like puppets, too, to achieve a larger agenda. For example, White Rose moving forward on Stage 2 and destroying Prince's "little company" (world conglomerate ECorp) in 1 day for no other reason than WR thinks "Price needs his hand slapped" to remind him who really is in control. If you follow cultural themes about the New World Order agenda or have at least heard of this, China IS their biggest problem. They don't want to play or acquiesce to demands. They are that large in size, population, wealth, and trans global investments to not be pushed in to a currency deal.  They have A LOT of global power. People like Price think they can negotiate diplomatically to reach a goal each wants; yet, China (or in this show, WR) laughs at us for this combination of entitled arrogance and näivity. I think this works well in the show and also reflects the globalsocioeconomic factors occurring in real life around us. 

This show is so well done in depicting all of these different TYPES of perceived power and what they can actually do versus what they are actually doing when the right strings are pulled-- they end up dancing to the tune of the string puller. All the world is a stage. 

It's like the 1% of the 1%.  In fact I think WR had decided on destroying those 71 Ecorp building way back when he said, "Price needs his hand slapped." It was a reminder that he and Price are not equals.

On 11/17/2017 at 2:07 AM, shapeshifter said:

I loved White Rose and Pierce dissing the owner of Mira Lago—the one person they could agree to loathe.

But I could use a little clarification from a careful watcher (or re-watcher): Were all the paper records that would have allowed the ECorps rebuild in those 71 buildings?
If so, that means Elliot (not Mr. Robot) was manipulated into stopping the shipments, right?

Esmail HATES Trump & is having a grand time dissing him at every turn.

Yes the paper records were in those 71 buildings because Elliot had stopped them from being shipped to NYC. The original plan (or so he thought) was to ship it all to the NYC building and then blow up that building. Elliot called it a "single point of failure." So what Elliot did was reroute the shipments back to the 71 buildings and also create false tracking numbers would made it look like they had been shipped.

On 11/17/2017 at 6:30 AM, AngelKitty said:

.....

Angela seems to think White Rose has the ability to do something to get her mother back. I don't know what and I can't remember what White Rose told her to make her believe that, but I will be surprised if this show has time travel or alternate universes. It's not Fringe, after all. 

 

On 11/17/2017 at 6:54 AM, loki567 said:

Now I'm thinking Angela's just fucking nuts. The alternate universe thing was just something for White Rose to get Angela on her side in order to keep a lid on Elliot. Where's the value for White Rose to move to another universe when she's fairly close to being God Emperor of this one?  

.......

The actress who played young Angela this week is the same actress who played her last season when Angela met WR. So was Angela meeting herself from a parallel universe? Maybe that's what convinced her to help WR. In the flashback this week Elliot's dad told Angela something to the effect that "He would hope Angela would be there to nudge Elliot & Darlene if they needed it." Maybe Angela thought that's what she was doing by managing Elliot.

21 hours ago, DARLENE13 said:

*Side note: I recently read an interesting theory... the concern White Rose shows as Phillip Price is leaving... it's possible maybe that wasn't his plan... maybe Price is planning to create a terrorist attack on 71 of his buildings to blame on China to start a war with them? It's a stretch, but I enjoy all the different theories and possible outcomes this show gives us. 

I didn't read that as concern at all. More a look of smug satisfaction. Remember WR moved stage 2 up to happen on the same day as the China announcement because she felt "Price needed his hand slapped."

 

I also think the reason that Irving apologized to Tyrell was because the change in plans meant he was going to have to take the fall. They set up the lair under Red Wheelbarrow to look like he may have been held hostage there and escaped,but they had bee telling Tyrell they would send him & his family to Keiv. It's just another reminder of how much of an unknowing pawn Tyrell has been in all of this.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Milaxx

[KaleyFirefly]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:24 AM, green said:

Buddha said all life is suffering as the first of his four noble truths.  Why?  Because not only is there suffering from not getting what you want or getting something horrible you don't want but even if you get all that you think you want you will lose it in the end because it is all in time and will pass away. 

The rest of his noble truths are that (2) suffering arises from desire so (3) the way to end suffering is to end desire.  The fourth noble truth was his yogic practices he taught to escape the realm of maya and desire.  Lots more of course but I'm already way off topic ... well only kind of because ...

Well, technically Buddha taught that suffering comes from craving, not just desire. Suffering comes from being overly attached to something, such as money or power. Being able to be detached is the means to end suffering. The Fourth Noble Truth is that there is a path to follow to nirvana, which is called the Eightfold Path. The Eight Limbs of Yoga are similar, but are a different path.

[KaleyFirefly]

This episode confused me a bit. 

What was the deal with Angela on the subway, staring at the guy like she was sure he wasn't going to shoot her, and saying "no one's going to die." What did she mean by that? Did she know that 71 buildings were going to blow up? It seems like she didn't know that.

How did Elliot know there were no paper records in the building? 

I don't understand Tyrell's plan.

[Milaxx]

11 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

This episode confused me a bit. 

What was the deal with Angela on the subway, staring at the guy like she was sure he wasn't going to shoot her, and saying "no one's going to die." What did she mean by that? Did she know that 71 buildings were going to blow up? It seems like she didn't know that.

How did Elliot know there were no paper records in the building? 

I don't understand Tyrell's plan.

It goes back to the theory(belief?) that WR has of people not really dying/ returning/parellel universe, etc...

[green]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:07 AM, KaleyFirefly said:

This episode confused me a bit. 

What was the deal with Angela on the subway, staring at the guy like she was sure he wasn't going to shoot her, and saying "no one's going to die." What did she mean by that? Did she know that 71 buildings were going to blow up? It seems like she didn't know that.

How did Elliot know there were no paper records in the building? 

I don't understand Tyrell's plan.

Because he re-routed them back to the other 71 buildings to prevent the "single point of failure" at the building in NYC.  That is why he had asked Angela to get him a job at Evil Corp to start with.  To prevent the building being blown up because there was no more reason for it to be blown up.

Unfortunately Whiterose saw that and had all of those 71 buildings blown up instead.  Some people above suggest that this was Tyrell's fix to the problem caused by Elliot and that may well be but it hasn't been stated as such yet in the show.  Just implied so far. 

But whoever did it screwed over Mr Robot as well forcing him to work with Elliot to prevent a now "paperless" (innocent) building from being blown up for no reason acceptable to Mr Robot as well.

So if Whiterose and/or Tyrell thwarted Elliot's plans they also, unknown to them so far, cause the first albeit temporary "alliance" of Elliot's two halves working in unison.  A development that Whiterose didn't foresee and could bite him in the behind in the end if those two halves perhaps start to merge into a whole greater than his currently two splintered parts.

Edited November 22, 2017 by green

[Ottis]

I'm not impressed. It appears this show is simply about terrorism. E Corps destruction is meaningless. It's a power play by Dark Army. That's pedestrian.

All that remains of interest is whatever Angela believes. 

This is sort of like if The Sopranos, which has some cool hooks and style as well, would have been about a low level soldier wanting to rise to lead a family. Yawn. 

[green]

No it isn't a power play by dark Army.  There are only Whiterose's tool of convenience...for now.  It is all about the Washington Township Project 2.0 and Whiterose vs Elliot and perhaps him in a new alliance with his other self, Mr Robot.  And you have seen all the CERN hints, right?

[Ottis]

Aside from CERN, those all are corollaries to DA being terrorists that WR uses(and which make him a terrorist, with a plan). I'm assuming CERN is tied to Angela's mutterings, which as I said are the only interesting part of the show left IMO. Maybe I don't get it but I'm done with Elliott vs. Mr R.

[green]

On 11/23/2017 at 1:14 AM, Ottis said:

Aside from CERN, those all are corollaries to DA being terrorists that WR uses(and which make him a terrorist, with a plan). I'm assuming CERN is tied to Angela's mutterings, which as I said are the only interesting part of the show left IMO. Maybe I don't get it but I'm done with Elliott vs. Mr R.

Elliot isn't fighting Mr Robot anymore.  Or rather not in the same way.  Make peace, not war.

To each their own but I think the show is getting far more interesting.

[Milaxx]

On 11/23/2017 at 1:14 AM, Ottis said:

Aside from CERN, those all are corollaries to DA being terrorists that WR uses(and which make him a terrorist, with a plan). I'm assuming CERN is tied to Angela's mutterings, which as I said are the only interesting part of the show left IMO. Maybe I don't get it but I'm done with Elliott vs. Mr R.

Santiago? He isn't the DA. He's with the FBI. He's Dom's superior. I also don't get the impression that he is a terrorist. He is clearly working with WR. To what end we don't know yet, but he was clearly shook when the 71 buildings were exploded. In fact he seemed to still be working on the "single point of failure" plan since he called his mother and instructed her to stay inside for the day, a move that proved unnecessary since the 71 Ecorp buildings were not in NYC, Perhaps WR has given him an illusion/fantasy like she appears to have done in order to get Tyrell, Angela and Mr. Robot to assist with her plan. Whatever is is Santiago appears to be on a need to know basis, only getting instructions when he needs to intervene like when he went to get Tyrell from the local PD.

We also have indications that Mr. Robot has begun to realize that WR has other plans and cooperating/helping Elliot. He opened the door for Elliot so that he could stop the NYC building from blowing up and then took Elliot to talk with Krista. 

[truthaboutluv]

With the state of the world right now, this show is becoming increasingly uncomfortable and disturbing to watch because it's becoming a little too real. Forget parallel universes and time travel - the real danger is blood thirsty power hungry corporations with the means to destroy millions of lives without blinking twice. I'm actually surprised USA is allowing this stuff, again, because of how on edge the world is right now. Amazing storytelling though. The backlash against Season 2 really made Esmail come correct this season. The storytelling is a lot tighter and of course the performances are still amazing - well most of them. I still think Portia Doubleday is just average and has simply mastered the art of the blank stare that makes her seem more compelling than she or the character really is .

[wilnil]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:45 PM, Milaxx said:

Santiago? He isn't the DA. He's with the FBI.

Ottis was using DA as short for Dark Army there.

[scrb]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

With the state of the world right now, this show is becoming increasingly uncomfortable and disturbing to watch because it's becoming a little too real. Forget parallel universes and time travel - the real danger is blood thirsty power hungry corporations with the means to destroy millions of lives without blinking twice. I'm actually surprised USA is allowing this stuff, again, because of how on edge the world is right now. Amazing storytelling though. The backlash against Season 2 really made Esmail come correct this season. The storytelling is a lot tighter and of course the performances are still amazing - well most of them. I still think Portia Doubleday is just average and has simply mastered the art of the blank stare that makes her seem more compelling than she or the character really is .

I think season 1 was a better parallel of the real world, especially as E-Corp being like Google, GE, etc.

But now they're showing WR pulling the strings and he's like some Bond super villain, so not as realistic.

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

But now they're showing WR pulling the strings and he's like some Bond super villain, so not as realistic.

I am not talking about WhiteRose being this super villain controlling everything. I am referring to the multiple E-Corp buildings being bombed, the hack, etc. With the current state of the world, these things are very much too real, IMO. Just look at the last few years or hell go back to 9/11. That was a well orchestrated coordinated attack where three commercial planes were hijacked and deliberately flown into buildings, killing thousands.

Last year there were the series of coordinated attacks in France. Some years ago Target had its entire system hacked and millions of people's credit card information was accessed. Donald freaking Trump is the current President of the country. And there is very compelling evidence to suggest that another superpower country had a hand in that election. The world right now is tense, on edge, people more cynical than they've ever been and honestly, kind of scary.

So when I watch an episode where the ending cliffhanger is that this international hacker/terrorist group coordinated and bombed 71 buildings, killing thousands of people, that feels a bit too real to me. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[green]

8 hours ago, wilnil said:

Ottis was using DA as short for Dark Army there.

Yeah every time I read DA here I always thing District Attorney.  I wish people would take the time to type Dark Army. It's only 6 more letters after all.

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I am not talking about WhiteRose being this super villain controlling everything. I am referring to the multiple E-Corp buildings being bombed, the hack, etc. With the current state of the world, these things are very much too real, IMO. Just look at the last few years or hell go back to 9/11. That was a well orchestrated coordinated attack where three commercial planes were hijacked and deliberately flown into buildings, killing thousands.

Last year there were the series of coordinated attacks in France. Some years ago Target had its entire system hacked and millions of people's credit card information was accessed. Donald freaking Trump is the current President of the country. And there is very compelling evidence to suggest that another superpower country had a hand in that election. The world right now is tense, on edge, people more cynical than they've ever been and honestly, kind of scary.

So when I watch an episode where the ending cliffhanger is that this international hacker/terrorist group coordinated and bombed 71 buildings, killing thousands of people, that feels a bit too real to me. 

Eh, I think people were more cynical and mistrusting of authority during the Vietnam War era.  In fact I know they were.  And most modern day whatever you call them genre shows (from NCIS to 24 to whatever the latest flavor of that TV season is) deal with terrorists and buildings blowing up etc these days.  Just par for the course that TV and movies follow the headlines.  They just don't do it with the brilliance of Mr Robot.

OT:  If you want something really realistic you should have seen "The State" I think it was called that I believe Nat Geo broadcast last month.  A four part British series (mini-series? pilot? don't know) following four youngish Brits leaving London on the same day to join ISIS and what becomes of them.  The characters were fictional but a lot of the nuts and bolts were based on real experiences westerners that joined ISIS went through and were recounted by same when some got disillusioned and returned or others who were captured and told their stories to de-briefers.  Talk about chilling realism in your fiction.  Wow.  (I still think about that show a lot.  It was extremely well made and will stick with you).

[possibilities]

I think the realism is what makes it compelling to watch. I agree it's disturbing, but if the world was not the way it is, the show would seem more like an over the top, ridiculous, paranoid and exploitative rant, and nothing more.

[truthaboutluv]

8 hours ago, green said:

Eh, I think people were more cynical and mistrusting of authority during the Vietnam War era.

I'll take your word for it since I wasn't alive during the Vietnam War era. 

 

8 hours ago, green said:

And most modern day whatever you call them genre shows (from NCIS to 24 to whatever the latest flavor of that TV season is) deal with terrorists and buildings blowing up etc these days.  Just par for the course that TV and movies follow the headlines.  They just don't do it with the brilliance of Mr Robot.

 

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think the realism is what makes it compelling to watch. I agree it's disturbing, but if the world was not the way it is, the show would seem more like an over the top, ridiculous, paranoid and exploitative rant, and nothing more.

Just so there's no confusion, I have no issues with the show and storyline. In fact, I am loving this season, especially after the choppiness of Season 2. I was merely expressing why the fact that some of these elements are all too real in the world we exist in right now, it can be a little disturbing. 

[Milaxx]

21 hours ago, wilnil said:

Ottis was using DA as short for Dark Army there.

Thanks for the correction. I can't respond just yet cause I'm drunk on cold meds

[green]

7 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Thanks for the correction. I can't respond just yet cause I'm drunk on cold meds

Awww, wish you had.  Your response while "drunk on cold meds" could have become an instant classic here, haha.

Edited November 28, 2017 by green

[Chaos Theory]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:36 PM, truthaboutluv said:

With the state of the world right now, this show is becoming increasingly uncomfortable and disturbing to watch because it's becoming a little too real. Forget parallel universes and time travel - the real danger is blood thirsty power hungry corporations with the means to destroy millions of lives without blinking twice. I'm actually surprised USA is allowing this stuff, again, because of how on edge the world is right now. Amazing storytelling though. The backlash against Season 2 really made Esmail come correct this season. The storytelling is a lot tighter and of course the performances are still amazing - well most of them. I still think Portia Doubleday is just average and has simply mastered the art of the blank stare that makes her seem more compelling than she or the character really is .

I am the exact opposite really but then I think people have gotten way to emotional for their own good.  With all the trigger warnings and what not pretty soon we are going to have smiley faces, frowns faves and five page warnings before every tv show just so no one will feel an emotion they aren’t ready for.   Personally I think any network that shows anything even remotely close to real life in a fictional show is brave and when the show is gritty as hell all the better.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am the exact opposite really but then I think people have gotten way to emotional for their own good.  With all the trigger warnings and what not pretty soon we are going to have smiley faces, frowns faves and five page warnings before every tv show just so no one will feel an emotion they aren’t ready for.   Personally I think any network that shows anything even remotely close to real life in a fictional show is brave and when the show is gritty as hell all the better.

Once again, my comment was not a judgement or criticism against the show. I have stated repeatedly that I love this season. I think Esmail and company have done a great job bringing the show back to the high quality it was in Season 1 by making the storytelling a lot more coherent and tighter. I also wasn't "triggered" by the end of the episode. It was merely an opinion that the incidents on the show are becoming almost uncomfortably too real, which doesn't mean that I can't watch it or want the writers to change anything or sanitize their show and their storytelling. It was merely a  personal observation and not meant for anyone else to agree or disagree. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Chaos Theory]

Wow I posted in the wrong group 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Chaos Theory