S03.E10: Heaven and Earth

[unlfan03]

So after having a couple of days to digest this last episode I really wanted to like it. I think if I had been a casual reader that had read the books eons ago and tuned in for nostalgia sake it would have worked better for me.I didn't mind Claire's story at all this week. I thought it worked well showing what a competent doctor she was having to work in the conditions she was stuck with. I think the cook and Elias Pound did a good job standing in for Claire's inner monologue about how helpless she felt watching men die tgat she could have saved 200 years later.

I also loved Fergus standing up to Jamie's crazy idea of mutiny when he realized that it would have done no good. This is where only having 2 smugglers, Fergus and Mr Willoughby made sense. Marsali was pretty funny too with her comment about Daddy and his woman being unable to stop them from being "together" wink wink nudge nudge. 

Jamie just felt off. I get he is worried about Claire and that he has a need to save her. This is a case of where cutting the story line for time causes a bad story choice. That isn't our Jamie but rather this angry possesive person who just doesn't make sense. 

I can understand cutting out Claire's meeting the mysterious man on the plague ship. It is much harder to disguise an actor's identity than it is on a page where he can remain nameless. As I think Matt is the only head honcho who has read farther in the books than the current seasons I can understand why not having Claire like Lord John before she knows who he is and then having to deal with liking him despite her prejudices against him (loving Jamie and jealous of knowing him for some of last 20 years) doesn't seem that important especially since he disappears from the story in person for a good while. 

[jmnf19]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also getting sort of tired of the repetition of Claire and Jamie being torn from one another. We're three seasons in and this pattern has been repeated about a dozen times.

 

That and Claire almost being raped.

[Juliegirlj]

Quote

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused.  You post practically the same comments in both the "book talk" and "no book talk" threads - have you read the books?  

 

Yes, I have read some of the books ( up to and including Voyager) . I have found this forum ( book talk) more forgiving and loyal towards the show, than the non book forum so sometimes I post on both. Since the forums are divided by episodes I assumed one was permitted to post comments and opinions on this board as a book reader without necessarily referencing book material. Not sure why you are confused or cross checking my posts. 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Yes, I have read some of the books ( up to and including Voyager) . I have found this forum ( book talk) more forgiving and loyal towards the show, than the non book forum so sometimes I post on both. Since the forums are divided by episodes I assumed one was permitted to post comments and opinions on this board as a book reader without necessarily referencing book material. Not sure why you are confused or cross checking my posts. 

Wasn't cross-checking; just an observation and I meant no offense.  I only said something because we "book readers" are told not to post in the non-book threads too much, or we could have our posts removed.  

[Juliegirlj]

3 hours ago, Nidratime said:

They've only been on the ships for two of the past 10 episodes and were in Scotland for much of the other eight that didn't involve Boston, so the season is not really a copycat of Black Sails and Master and Commander. As for the last two episodes, they're on ships, at similar periods of time as the two other stories, so there's going to be some similarity in regard to the problems, superstitions, and ways of doing things. But, this is the plot of the books, and it don't think they should change it just because there was also a show about ships and pirates which recently aired, or because of a popular series of books about 18th century life on ships. Besides, they'll be land lovers next season.

Yes, they are on sailing vessels in similar time periods, but, some of the material is nearly identical to Master and Commander like the Jonah superstitions, and the stitching of the body bag through the nose, among others. It didn't stand out to me when I read the book like it has on the show. Just MY opinion. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

but, some of the material is nearly identical to Master and Commander like the Jonah superstitions, and the stitching of the body bag through the nose, among others. It didn't stand out to me when I read the book like it has on the show.

Because that wasn't in the buik.  Matt Roberts said in the after show (if you watched this on demand), that the writer of this episode, Luke Schelhaas, did his research on how things were done. So the stitching, the respect shown during the burial at sea, the descriptions of the different things on the ships, were all historically accurate. This show does go off-buik, and these scenes were some of them. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Juliegirlj]

I was not aware of any rules that limit book readers from posting on the non book forum -aside from obviously not referring to any book content or reference. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Juliegirlj said:

I was not aware of any rules that limit book readers from posting on the non book forum -aside from obviously not referring to any book content or reference. 

It's in the pinned notes by the moderator on the first page of each non-buik thread:

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Book readers are discouraged from posting and liking in this thread. Posts may be removed without warning.

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, jmnf19 said:

I'm also getting sort of tired of the repetition of Claire and Jamie being torn from one another. We're three seasons in and this pattern has been repeated about a dozen times.

 

I said the same thing to my hubby last night:  One is peril, on must go rescue, Claire is almost attacked, Jamie better go get her.......We all knew when Claire went on the ship to help the diseased men that separation was in store for them!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well, as we all buik readers ken, that this is the last time they'll be separated! Well, aside from when Jamie goes back to Scotland to get the press to bring back to the colonies. I think?

[jmnf19]

13 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I said the same thing to my hubby last night:  One is peril, on must go rescue, Claire is almost attacked, Jamie better go get her.......We all knew when Claire went on the ship to help the diseased men that separation was in store for them!

Somehow you quoted me on this, but it was iMonrey that made the post. Thought I was losing it for a second there. :D I actually responded to iMonrey's post.

[FnkyChkn34]

43 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well, as we all buik readers ken, that this is the last time they'll be separated! Well, aside from when Jamie goes back to Scotland to get the press to bring back to the colonies. I think?

Is that when they presume that he's dead and she marries Lord John?  If the show gets that far... but also, in the show, the press didn't survive.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Is that when they presume that he's dead and she marries Lord John?  If the show gets that far... but also, in the show, the press didn't survive.  

Yes. Oh, right. Both were destroyed. Well, if the show gets that far, they could always write in that Ian or Rabbie or Wee Jamie found a new one, but Jamie had to come to Scotland to retrieve it. Or something.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. Oh, right. Both were destroyed. Well, if the show gets that far, they could always write in that Ian or Rabbie or Wee Jamie found a new one, but Jamie had to come to Scotland to retrieve it. Or something.

I'm not nearly that far in the books, and I don't mean to go completely off topic, but... why marry Lord John?  If Jamie died, and I were Claire, I'd just go back through the stones with Roger and Bree.  Why live in a much harder time period (and war) if I didn't have to?

But I think this separation is about to end; I think they'll be reunited in this week's episode.  

[TaurusRose]

6 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I liked this episode. Add me to the long list of people who found Elias Pound extraordinarily compelling. The young man who played him turned in a fine bit of acting. I felt very invested in this child, for that's what he was, who bore the heavy weight of an adult's responsibilities under the worst conditions imaginable. His death was terribly sad and the scene where Claire stitched the canvas closed was heartbreaking. A short, brutal life punctuated by small moments of kindness - perhaps that's the best he could have hoped for after all.

I don't like the opening theme music infused with the Caribbean beat, even though I understand why it's being done. It just doesn't work for me, but it'll change in due course. 

How will Claire's stash of 20th century penicillin survive its time in the water? Did she transport it in a sealed glass container? I wouldn't think she'd have brought something plastic back with her. In the books, I thought  it wasn't until they were in the states that she first conjured up a batch of penicillin, but having not read the books in years, I'm probably not remembering that correctly. Maybe it's the anesthesia I'm thinking of.

I find the young captain of the Porpoise extremely handsome - right now, he's been my go-to eye candy! /shallow/

This is very well said and I agree. I like the Caribbean beat. It’s subtle and let’s us know where the story is headed. I like it much better than the French they used last year. But then I hated that whole excursion to France.

Edited November 21, 2017 by taurusrose

[aemom]

15 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not nearly that far in the books, and I don't mean to go completely off topic, but... why marry Lord John?  If Jamie died, and I were Claire, I'd just go back through the stones with Roger and Bree.  Why live in a much harder time period (and war) if I didn't have to?

Claire and John were in America.  They thought that Jamie had died on the ship bringing him over and Claire was about to be arrested for something (I don't remember what exactly), and Lord John married her to protect her.  I'm not sure at this point if Claire knew of any travelling stones near enough for her to go back to the future.

[TaurusRose]

32 minutes ago, AEMom said:

Claire and John were in America.  They thought that Jamie had died on the ship bringing him over and Claire was about to be arrested for something (I don't remember what exactly), and Lord John married her to protect her.  I'm not sure at this point if Claire knew of any travelling stones near enough for her to go back to the future.

FFS Just say I’m glad I didn’t read this stuff. Way too much drama. I probably won’t be watching, if the show is still on, by then.

Edited November 20, 2017 by taurusrose

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. Oh, right. Both were destroyed. Well, if the show gets that far, they could always write in that Ian or Rabbie or Wee Jamie found a new one, but Jamie had to come to Scotland to retrieve it. Or something.

Well, they actually go to Scotland for two reasons: one, for the press and two, to escort the body of General back home to Scotland for burial. So, they don't actually need the press for them to head back to Scotland on the show and end up separated as a result.

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not nearly that far in the books, and I don't mean to go completely off topic, but... why marry Lord John?  If Jamie died, and I were Claire, I'd just go back through the stones with Roger and Bree.  Why live in a much harder time period (and war) if I didn't have to?

Claire had to head back to the Colonies before Jamie and the ship Jamie is supposed to be on sinks. Jamie is presumed dead, so John, a British Officer, steps up and marries Claire when she's about to be arrested for passing seditious material around Philadelphia in order to protect her. Claire acknowledges in a book earlier that she doesn't believe going back through the stones is an option for her. The last time she went through she felt as though it would kill her if she tried again. Plus, her life is in the past now, not the future.

Edited November 20, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, toolazy said:

She had some left over that she was going to use on the kid who was betrothed to Lizzie but got VD in a brothel.   I think. I might be confusing that with some of her home-grown crop.

That was WAY down stream and from her home-grown crop. The batch she brought with her from the future (in pill form,which is then dissolved in distilled water -- they skipped that part in episode 308) gets used up near the end of book 3 to make sure wee Ian doesn't end up with a raging case of syphilis.  I'm hoping her stash of penicillin is still safe on the Artemis or in a water-tight container in her secret pocket.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm with the one who says "I want her husband." ????

Edited November 20, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[toolazy]

4 hours ago, unlfan03 said:

 

I can understand cutting out Claire's meeting the mysterious man on the plague ship. It is much harder to disguise an actor's identity than it is on a page where he can remain nameless. 

He isn't nameless in the books.   He's described as a slight, slender man and he introduces himself as "Grey."  She doesn't know who he is but readers should recognize him. 

 

 

3 hours ago, jmnf19 said:

That and Claire almost being raped.

Who almost raped Claire?

 

 

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well, as we all buik readers ken, that this is the last time they'll be separated! Well, aside from when Jamie goes back to Scotland to get the press to bring back to the colonies. I think?

They are separated when she is arrested for Malva's murder.  

 

 

28 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That was WAY down stream and from her home-grown crop. The batch she brought with her from the future (in pill form,which is then dissolved in distilled water -- they skipped that part in episode 308) gets used up near the end of book 3 to make sure wee Ian doesn't end up with a raging case of syphilis.  I'm hoping her stash of penicillin is still safe on the Artemis or in a water-tight container in her secret pocket.

Oh right! I knew it had to do with preventing venereal disease in some young reprobate or other.  

[WatchrTina]

"How do I turn on the porn subtitles"   Hee! (I'm quoting the image with the dolls above.)

Do y'all know about that?  Apparently when this episode of Outlander was broadcast somewhere, (possibly Brazil) the TV station inadvertently ran the subtitles belonging to "The Girlfriend Experience," which is a STARZ show about high-end prostitutes.  It apparently made for some interesting juxtapositions of subtitle vs. on-screen image.  News of the error led to a fair amount of hilarity on Twitter among the production team.

ETA: Or, go read the "Outlander in the Media" thread.  (I forgot someone had posted the whole thing.)

Edited November 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

"How do I turn on the porn subtitles"   Hee! (I'm quoting the image with the dolls above.)

Do y'all know about that?  Apparently when this episode of Outlander was broadcast somewhere, (possibly Brazil) the TV station inadvertently ran the subtitles belonging to "The Girlfriend Experience," which is a STARZ show about high-end prostitutes.  It apparently made for some interesting juxtapositions of subtitle vs. on-screen image.  New of the error led to a fair amount of hilarity on Twitter among the production team.

I don't think it was this episode. Maybe "The First Wife?" Or "The Doldrums?"

Edited November 20, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[WatchrTina]

16 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

it was understood it would be a marriage of convenience.

I'd call it something more than that.  Lord John stepped up and married Claire to protect her (they both think Jamie is dead and Claire is at risk of being arrested for distributing seditious materials.  John's status in the British military removes her from risk.)  It's an amazingly noble gesture.  What passes between them, in their shared grief for the same man, is (in my humble opinion) some of Diana's best writing.  (Have I mentioned lately how much I LOVE Lord John?)  And then when Jamie turns up alive there is a crisis happening and the whole scene (and what follows) is both incredibly touching and flat-out hilarious. Definitely a high point of the series.

So . . . bringing this back to the topic of THIS season, I can't WAIT for Claire to meet Lord John.  There better be some visible jealousy or I will be sorely disappointed.

Edited November 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Athena]

Reminders:

1. Mod actions are not to be discussed in thread.
2. Be civil and considerate of your fellow posters and their opinions whether book reader or non book watcher. Everyone's opinion is welcome and should not be interrogated.
3. Do not engage if you find a post questionable. Report it.

[GingerMarie]

Quote

 

Need clarification please.  When Claire was with the Captain going over the doctor's log book and realized it was a group of men who had gotten sick.  When she asked did they 'share the same mess' was she talking about their food or facilities to relieve themselves.  The Captain seemed a little reluctant to answer.  So I am assuming she meant the 'facilities' and not where they eat. 

[whoknowswho]

3 minutes ago, Athena said:

Reminders:

1. Mod actions are not to be discussed in thread.
2. Be civil and considerate of your fellow posters and their opinions whether book reader or non book watcher. Everyone's opinion is welcome and should not be interrogated.
3. Do not engage if you find a post questionable. Report it.

My apologies.  I tried to edit post. 

 

10 minutes ago, Athena said:

Reminders:

1. Mod actions are not to be discussed in thread.
2. Be civil and considerate of your fellow posters and their opinions whether book reader or non book watcher. Everyone's opinion is welcome and should not be interrogated.
3. Do not engage if you find a post questionable. Report it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

So . . . bringing this back to the topic of THIS season, I can WAIT for Claire to meet Lord John.  There better be some visible jealousy or I will be sorely disappointed.

Refresh me memory please. Claire was jealous of Lord John because...why again? I recall friction. And Jamie dressing up as a fooking...FOP. Along with some "beauty mark" and teasing Lord John for the latter not recognizing him.

[toolazy]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Refresh me memory please. Claire was jealous of Lord John because...why again? I recall friction. And Jamie dressing up as a fooking...FOP. Along with some "beauty mark" and teasing Lord John for the latter not recognizing him.

She's jealous because she could tell, on the basis of a stolen glimpse of a brief hug, that John has the hots for Jamie.  And because John has the hots for Jamie, it takes her a few years to warm up to him.  I hate that part, actually.  She has nothing to be jealous of because she knows that Jamie does not reciprocate John's feelings.  However, during John's visit to the Ridge, she realized that seeing John & Jamie together pushes the same buttons that Frank did when he cheated on her.   Eventually she grows up and gets over it but it took an annoying long time.

Edited November 21, 2017 by toolazy

[thesparkinside]

1 hour ago, GingerMarie said:

Need clarification please.  When Claire was with the Captain going over the doctor's log book and realized it was a group of men who had gotten sick.  When she asked did they 'share the same mess' was she talking about their food or facilities to relieve themselves.  The Captain seemed a little reluctant to answer.  So I am assuming she meant the 'facilities' and not where they eat. 

"Mess" would be where they ate. I believe the term on a ship for "toilets" (of a sort) was "the head".

[GingerMarie]

14 minutes ago, thesparkinside said:

"Mess" would be where they ate. I believe the term on a ship for "toilets" (of a sort) was "the head".

Thanks.  I knew mess halls were where people ate but not sure why the Captain was so hesitant in answering her question so it had me questioning the meaning of 'mess'. 

[WatchrTina]

26 minutes ago, toolazy said:

She's jealous because she could tell, on the basis of a stolen glimpse of a brief hug, that John has the hots for Jamie.  And because John has the hots for Jamie, it takes her a few years to warm up to him.  I hate that part, actually.  She has nothing to be jealous of because she knows that Jamie does not reciprocate John's feelings.

Well, in Claire's defense it is during that encounter that she learns that John has Jamie's son in his care.  That's just hitting a little too close to home for her.  Here's a guy who not only has the hots for her beloved and who got to spend time with Jamie during the years when Claire and Jamie were torn asunder -- years she feels were stolen from them -- during that scene she ALSO learns that John is linked to Jamie forever by virtue of being the person who is raising Jamie's child.  I think that parallel hits just a little too close to home for my girl Claire. She knows Jamie does not return John's feelings.  She KNOWS it.  But jealousy is not logical and to me, Book!Claire's teeny bit of jealousy over Jamie and John's relationship is entirely believable, especially since we live in Book!Claire's head and know just what she is feeling.  It will be interesting to see if TV!Claire is able to depict feelings that are so subtle and complex.

I also suspect that John might be feeling the teeniest bit of jealousy of Claire too.  It will be interesting to see if THAT is visible on screen.

Edited November 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[jzygayle]

If Claire and Jamie were real people, they'd have cause to sue over the character defamation of this version.  And if they HAD to turn Jamie into a narcissistic, manipulative dickhead, then why did Elias still have to die?  And if Elias had to die, why did Claire have to become incompetent and miss all the symptom (unlike in the book where she caught it all but she simply couldn't cure it with the tools she had).

And yes, the entry in the Captain's log is kind of the way it happened in the book, except the Captain admits the whole thing to Claire once she's gotten a handle on the disease, and tells her that if he could, he'd remove the names (etc) now that he knows her and from her character, extrapolates to Jamie's.  Out of deep regard and gratitude for her, he would change the logs if it were possible, but it's not--the authorities on land will read the logs, presumably especially because it was a plague ship, though not the actual plague and so many of the officers died.

And I miss Lord John.  He should have been here. 

[jzygayle]

44 minutes ago, toolazy said:

She's jealous because she could tell, on the basis of a stolen glimpse of a brief hug, that John has the hots for Jamie.  And because John has the hots for Jamie, it takes her a few years to warm up to him.  I hate that part, actually.  She has nothing to be jealous of because she knows that Jamie does not reciprocate John's feelings.  However, during John's visit to the Ridge, she realized that seeing John & Jamie together pushes the same buttons that Frank did when he cheated on her.   Eventually she grows up and gets over it but it took an annoying long time.

It's also upon meeting John Grey that she meets (and first learns of) Willie.  Jamie did NOT tell her about his son until she meets him.

[Ziggy]

7 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I was not aware of any rules that limit book readers from posting on the non book forum -aside from obviously not referring to any book content or reference. 

I didn't realize that at first, either.  I posted a few times at the beginning of the season.  As far as I know, nothing I said was removed, but now I only read the non-book thread.  I still enjoy reading it, even if I don't post anymore.

[areca]

5 hours ago, taurusrose said:

FFS Just say I’m glad I didn’t read this stuff. Way too much drama. I probably won’t be watching, if the show is still on, by then.

It's all quite wonderful actually.  It's a soap, but it's a good one.

[toolazy]

4 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Well, in Claire's defense it is during that encounter that she learns that John has Jamie's son in his care.

Nope. She doesn't find that out until later that night - when she goes poking around LJG's office.  She spent quite a bit of time freaking out in the meantim. 

4 hours ago, jzygayle said:

It's also upon meeting John Grey that she meets (and first learns of) Willie.  Jamie did NOT tell her about his son until she meets him.

Yes, I know. But her first reaction was seriously jealous, probably because she did not yet know the actual nature of Jamie & John's relationship.  The Jamie she knew wouldn't have let John near his bits but, as has been demonstrated, Jamie did things she could never have imagined.  Her knowledge of Jamie is at war with the very brief scene she saw and she can't handle it.

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, toolazy said:

She's jealous because she could tell, on the basis of a stolen glimpse of a brief hug, that John has the hots for Jamie.  And because John has the hots for Jamie, it takes her a few years to warm up to him.  I hate that part, actually.  She has nothing to be jealous of because she knows that Jamie does not reciprocate John's feelings.  However, during John's visit to the Ridge, she realized that seeing John & Jamie together pushes the same buttons that Frank did when he cheated on her.   Eventually she grows up and gets over it but it took an annoying long time.

Wasn't her jealousy more confusion at first? I mean, she spied Jamie and John in an embrace and it took her back a bit because it was obvious Jamie had a real affection for John, but Jamie had never mentioned him previously. It seemed to me she at first wondered what it was that was really between them simply because she was surprised Jamie would tolerate a friendship with John given their previous experiences with Black Jack Randall. And then, she learns about Willie from John--not Jamie--and realizes this man was a big part of their time apart and Jamie had been holding it back...WHY? Once Jamie explains it to her, I don't think she's really jealous of John having a relationship with Jamie as much as she was jealous that John was an important part of the 20 years of Jamie's life she missed out on. I think that's also why it takes her so long to get over it. There's no way Claire can ever get those 20 years back and John is a reminder of those 20 years gone.

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think she's really jealous of John having a relationship with Jamie as much as she was jealous that John was an important part of the 20 years of Jamie's life she missed out on. I think that's also why it takes her so long to get over it. There's no way Claire can ever get those 20 years back and John is a reminder of those 20 years gone.

THIS!  A thousand times this!

ETA:  Now I think about it -- doesn't Claire also react badly because of what she sees in John's face?  Book!Jamie is looking at the miniature portrait of Wille (the one he already has in the show) but John is looking at Jamie . . . and Claire recognizes that look.

I'll be listening to the audio-book as I drive to family later today.  I'll be listening for that bit.

Edited November 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[FnkyChkn34]

 In last week's script, Jamie told her that John is raising Willie. But that part was cut, so I'm very curious to find out how the show will handle them meeting. 

[TaurusRose]

11 hours ago, areca said:

It's all quite wonderful actually.  It's a soap, but it's a good one.

LOL Different strokes for different folks. I’m not a fan of the soap opera genre. YMMV of course. ?

[IntrovertGal]

22 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

The ball/gala where they are all dressed up.  There are a lot of promo photos that they've already released.

Ah okay, thanks. I don't follow the show spoilers all that closely so I missed that. Very happy and relieved that LJG will show up again later this season.

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, taurusrose said:

LOL Different strokes for different folks. I’m not a fan of the soap opera genre. YMMV of course. ?

I agree that it sounded like a soap opera, but it's difficult to sum up all that went into those events.  That happened at the end of Book 7 (An Echo in the Bone), so there are still books 4, 5, 6 and most of 7 that have events that led up to that.  That is a heck of a lot of pages to summarize why the characters would do things.  The explanations I've read have been good, but it's still simplifying things.

As much as I enjoyed books 1 & 3 (and not so much book 2), I loved the last 5 books.  It's all about Jamie and Claire making a life in the new world.  It's not drama free by any means, but I enjoyed the continuous story of the two of them and their family and friends and the life they created for themselves.  Voyager is full of coincidences (The guy on the Porpoise just happens to be the person that followed Young Ian to the printshop and just happens to know who Jamie really is) - and that's just one coincidence!), and you just have to accept them if you want to enjoy the story.  There's a lot less of that in future books.

[toolazy]

57 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

that's just one coincidence!), and you just have to accept them if you want to enjoy the story.  There's a lot less of that in future books.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  Geographical coincidences abound all the way through the books.  

[Eureka]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:57 PM, Juliegirlj said:

I was not aware of any rules that limit book readers from posting on the non book forum -aside from obviously not referring to any book content or reference. 

I remember them saying that a while back, for fear that we might inadvertently spoil them. I don't tend to read/post in that thread mainly because it's pretty empty in there.

[FnkyChkn34]

4 hours ago, IntrovertGal said:

Ah okay, thanks. I don't follow the show spoilers all that closely so I missed that. Very happy and relieved that LJG will show up again later this season.

 Sorry, I hope I didn't ruin anything for you. :)

[toolazy]

6 hours ago, Eureka said:

I remember them saying that a while back, for fear that we might inadvertently spoil them. I don't tend to read/post in that thread mainly because it's pretty empty in there.

I post over there occasionally but it's kind of stressful because I have to be so very careful what I say.  You can't give away book spoilers and you can't even allude that spoilers even exist.  Basically, you have to pretend that you live in a timeline in which the books weren't written.  When I post there I'm very "just the facts, ma'am" when the facts are limited strictly to the things that have already happened in the TV show.  Honestly, it's too much work to be so careful but sometimes they just get it so very wrong that I can't stop myself. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by toolazy

[theschnauzers]

Actually, as I’ve been told, if you post  in the book talk threads, you are not allowed to even post in the non-book talk threads.

[Cloudberryjam]

3 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

Actually, as I’ve been told, if you post  in the book talk threads, you are not allowed to even post in the non-book talk threads.

Yes, i was told the same 

[Emily Thrace]

On 11/19/2017 at 0:38 PM, WatchrTina said:

Um, why would anyone broach a cask of crème de menthe with an axe while it was sitting on its side in a warehouse surrounded by other casks?  Why would they broach that particular one?  That scene made NO sense.  The only fan-wank I can come up with is that what we saw on screen was Claire’s imagination -- not what really happened -- and that in reality there was some clue that something other than Crème de Menthe was in that cask when Sir Percival and his men came calling at Jamie’s warehouse after he fled Edinburgh.

I would think if they were looking for contraband they would have tapped the outside of the barrels with something heavy. That way they could verify if anything was hidden in them without dumping them out and destroying them.  The barrel with a body in it would have sounded a lot different than the others. Or they were planing on destroy all the illegal alcohol by breaking the casks and just got lucky