Runaways - General Discussion

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Alex arguably brings the most to the table than all the others - and he certainly takes less from it for selfish, stupid, short-sighted reasons than the rest of them.  

Maybe, but he doesn't seem to have any cool, physical manifestation of his powers, such as they are. Just standing around being brainy isn't as eye-grabbing as shooting lightning bolts out of your fists or picking up cars and moving them out of the way.

Seriously though, I get it. He's the leader and he's trying to lead by example.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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The question was what he brought to the table, not if he had a cool power that he stumbled into by luck.

Rhenzy Feliz, is that you? ;-)

The idiom "bring to table" generally means, "we're offering this thing, what are you offering that's at least of equivalent value?" Each kid showed their physical superpower ready to use and as such, Alex didn't have one that he could offer in the moment. What he does can't be demonstrated on command like their physical feats can. (Unless you count hacking.)

In superhero TV shows and movies I think people expect the characters to be able to do something physically powerful and possibly destructive right now that can be seen. Alex doesn't do that and seems, to me anyway, like an outlier in the genre. It's kind of like how Batman gets shade because he doesn't have any powers other than the use of the best technology money can buy or build. He mostly relies on gadgets to supplement his own human physical strength. Alex doesn't really use any physical stuff at all, it's mostly his brainpower. Intellect isn't bad, it's just harder for others to see...as compared to throwing a car.

[HunterHunted]

18 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Maybe, but he doesn't seem to have any cool, physical manifestation of his powers, such as they are. Just standing around being brainy isn't as eye-grabbing as shooting lightning bolts out of your fists or picking up cars and moving them out of the way.

Seriously though, I get it. He's the leader and he's trying to lead by example.

If your point is that in the superhero pose off at the end Alex had nothing to show, then you are correct. However, neither did a staffless Nico or Gert with a velociraptor in the trunk of her Volvo. The 2 of them looked just as impotent as Alex in their bootleg hero poses. Alex is the planner. He's smart. He is the only one who has been on task nearly the entire time. But the point is that Alex brings a lot to the table even if what he does or brings to the table doesn't look cool. Unless Nico can figure out how to get the staff back or make another, she's going to look just as "useless" as Alex from here on out.

[peachmangosteen]

On 1/3/2018 at 5:40 PM, RachelKM said:

All that said, Gert and Chase are kind of my favorite characters...Which is odd because they have each pissed me off the most of the group in their respective ways., Gert by being an asshole about Chase to Karolina and to Chase himself in the middle of an actual life and death situation and Chase by destroying the laptop and being an obtuse dipshit about 70% of the time.  The thing is, both Chase and Gert's flaws (self-absorption and obtuseness) are consistent with their ages and they are both also very nice people who are played by charming actors. 

I also like Molly and Karolina, but that is more just because they are nice people.  I find Nico and Alex more challenging. I want to like them... and I don't dislike them.  I just don't find them interesting. 

This! Although I am finding it hard to like Gert even though I really wish I did and I normally really would like her type. I loved the actress in One Day At a Time, but I'm not really a fan of her here.

My favorite is Chase, but that's almost entirely just because I find the actor very warm and compelling. And I am a fan of the cliche he is lol.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Like I'm not sure what you're arguing at this point. Your initial question of what Alex brings to the table has been answered. Now you feel the need to qualify that value is exclusively physical superpowers, and not, you know, getting shit done. Basically shifting the goal post to find someway to devalue Alex.

No, I'm expressing a tongue-in-cheek opinion about a TV show. The only thing I'm qualifying is my initial failure to include adequate words to make that clearer.

One thing I am sure of though is that you don't have the ability to tell me what I feel or need. And unless you're a mod, you're not telling me I can't express an opinion you don't agree with.

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Unless Nico can figure out how to get the staff back or make another, she's going to look just as "useless" as Alex from here on out.

That would be an interesting plot hole. I imagine the writers will fix it unless they plan to kill her off or remove her from the group.

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But the point is that Alex brings a lot to the table even if what he does or brings to the table doesn't look cool.

I don't disagree. Gifts differing.

[AnimeMania]

On 12/26/2017 at 10:59 PM, MarquisDeCarabas said:

Btw does anyone know what the minoru’s were saying?

[Zuleikha]

Early on I was wondering how they were going to deal with Dale's memory loss and return him to his original state of evil. 

Wait, what did  I miss about Dale? When was there something with him having memory loss and formerly being evil? The only memory loss I remember is Frank Dean, who was probably not conventionally evil.

I don't mind the pacing because I think a lot has actually happened within the plot the TV show is telling (although I do think it's odd that Gert/dinosaur has been dropped for a bit while the other kids are exploring their powers). But I am frustrated to not know more about Leslie and what she thinks she's doing. I'll admit that's partially influenced by reading up on the comic book version of the Deans, though. 

 If she lies, then there is a chance Frank relays that lie to Jonah. So she decided (correctly I think) that the truth was her best defense.

My current theory is that Leslie's father promised her to Jonah for her to bear Jonah a child. I think Leslie is a true believer of whatever she's believed, and I don't think she saw herself as having any real choice. The picture suggests she's been groomed since a young age. I suspect that she did truly love Frank, at least until he caught her with Jonah and she had to choose to wipe his memories.

Unrelated, but I'm really curious about Tina/Robert. Other characters have been shown with the book that was comic book Robert's, so I'm assuming TV Robert has no high-tech magic. Jonah could have converted Tina to be so into Pride with the staff, but what did Robert get out of this?

[Zuleikha]

I'm still liking the show, but I agree with this. We have glimpses as to why the joined the Pride, but, now that they have achieved their goals, why are the still committed to it? We know that some parents want out, but outside of Tina as an enforcer, why don't they leave?

I thought it was because Tina's mom took video of the sacrifices, so they're blackmailed into staying. And as they learned more about Jonah's powers, probably terrified to leave. They also may be invested in whatever Jonah has said he will accomplish. I suspect the Gibborim aspect will differ from the comic books, but it still may be something the parents genuinely believe in (or believed in before the weight of killing kids got to some of them over the years).

[Miss Dee]

As a non-comics reader - I didn't even know there was a comic - I have no expectations about this and therefore I'm not finding the pace slow at all. In fact, until now I didn't even know the term "runaways" was literal rather than metaphorical. I'm enjoying watching the kids navigate school and parents and kidnappings and magic Hogwart lessons and the gradual discovery of their powers. In fact, I might be disappointed if they leave all that behind to go on the lam.

I also like that I'm not entirely certain Chase and Nico won't get turned to the Dark Side and eventually side with the parents. I think Alex and Carolina are all in. Gert and Molly could go either way.

My favourites among the parents are Gert's. I like that they've softened Nico's mom, but Alex's mom and Annie Wersching still scare me. James Marsters is a little scary, and I think either Nico's dad, Carolina's dad or Chase's mom are good candidates for the secret or eventual Big Bad. Whereas I could see Alex's dad eventually turning and running away with the kids.

As all the kids have superpowers, I'm wondering if the other adults are hiding metaphysical secrets.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Miss Dee

[Cranberry]

I really enjoyed this one. I don't have many coherent thoughts because it's late and I'm tired, but Old Lace got her name! And Nico was ride or die for Karolina! And the kids actually ran away! The battle scene, while short, was great, and I liked the bits of comedy with "Yawn" (especially after Molly broke down the door). It seemed like every character got at least one good moment in the episode, and we got to see people interact in different pairs and groups than usual (Nico and Chase, Nico and Gert, Chase and Molly, Leslie and Stacey and Dale, Catherine and Geoffrey and Jonah), which was nice. I'm looking forward to season two -- we're getting 13 episodes!

[Shaynaa]

It's late and I am way tired.  So Jonah set the kids up for Destiny's murder?  Since the parents all wanted to help them at the end.  Frank saying he would do anything for Karolina rings pretty hollow at this point.

[HunterHunted]

16 hours ago, Shaynaa said:

So Jonah set the kids up for Destiny's murder?

Was that Jonah's doing? I thought it might be the Wilders doing because they control the police and the police might be the one group who can withstand Jonah's armed Gibborim zealots. Plus the police can legally go into places a private citizen cannot.

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Since the parents all wanted to help them at the end.  Frank saying he would do anything for Karolina rings pretty hollow at this point.

I'm not sure I trust Frank at all. The thing with the parents is that if they had stopped being paranoid and snide, they would have realized a lot earlier that Jonah's bullshit was bullshit and could have come up with a way to extricate themselves from PRIDE.

The other real problem in the group is that they have two projects (reviving Jonah and the hole with sustainable energy) that require a ton of scientific expertise and three groups of scientific specialities (engineering, biology, and geology) that never seemed to communicate on what should clearly be interdisciplinary projects. If they'd been working in an interdisciplinary fashion, there is no way that Jonah would have been able to hide what they were drilling for as long as he had.

Leslie is just an asshole. I feel not the least bit sympathetic towards her as she realizes Jonah is horrible. She killed the Rodriguezes rather than engage in any conversation about their specific doubts. They were the geologists and seismologists. I don't know why she assumed their concerns were murder-y and not science-y. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by HunterHunted

[ElectricBoogaloo]

All season, I've been wondering how far the parents were willing to go. Watching them just stand by while Jonah blasted their kids and then took on Karolina head to head answered that question for me. They might be willing to beg him to leave their kids alone, but they're not willing to actually do anything to stop him from hurting their own children. They just stood there and watched him and didn't try to do anything to stop him, like tackling him or trying to reason with them or even distracting him so the kids could run.

Even Frank for all his bluster about "I'm still Karolina's father - I raised her" left as soon as Jonah told him to go home. Not that I really believe that Frank would be more likely to try to stop Jonah. He's the ass kisser who will do anything, including rat out Karolina, to get even a smidge more power. When he told Jonah, "I'd do anything for Karolina's safeety," I was like pfffft like hand her over to Jonah?

Leslie SUCKS. She killed Alice and Gene, and she knew that Jonah murdered Amy and let everyone believe it was suicide. Now that the adults all know, how can they believe anything she says?

While I understand the whole "ohana leaves no one gets left behind" mentality, if I were Karolina and I had just risked my life so the others could escape, I'd be pretty mad if they blew their chance to leave by coming back and risking capture.

The kids get some bonus points for at least trying to go incognito (it drives me crazy when people on tv shows go on the run and then do nothing to try to disguise their appearance) but come on. It's not just your clothes that need to be changed. You're just aiming to blend in and be unremarkable so that no one looks twice at you. Step one: Nico needs to wipe all that goth shit off her face and Gert needs to get a regular hair color (swapping purple for green doesn't count - a cheap wig with dark colored hair or some brown hair dye at the grocery store are both quick and easy solutions). Step two: everyone needs to get boring regular clothes like plain t-shirts, hoodies, and jeans. And they all need hats and sunglasses - not like gigantic Carmen Sandiego hats and sunglasses, but baseball caps and cheap gas station sunglasses to help hide their faces. It's not rocket science, people! And it's LA so you can definitely get away with wearing sunglasses all year. But by the end of the episode, they were all back to their non-incognito looks so they lost any bonus points I originally gave them. At least wait until you get out of LA to revert back to your original style!

So what did Alex give Darius in exchange for all that money? The security code to his house? Access to his parents' records? That was a fat roll so he must have given Darius some pretty important information.

I liked that they have been trying to mix up the character interactions more in the last few episodes. I felt like at the beginning of the season, we kept seeing the same combinations (Alex/Nico, Molly/Gert, Karolina/Chase/Gert) so it was really noticeable when we got things like Nico and Chase having a one on one conversation.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So what did Alex give Darius in exchange for all that money? The security code to his house? Access to his parents' records? That was a fat roll so he must have given Darius some pretty important information.

I've been wondering about this all night. Was it the security codes to his house? Tina's Wizard password? Furthermore, why would Darius want to get involved in this game of gods and monsters? He's just a regular South Central gang banger who happened to find kids with lightning gloves, dinosaurs, super strength, magic, and light powers. You'd think he'd just bow out of this mess. 

[xaxat]

Leslie really is the worst. I was happy when Tina threatened to kill her because that would have been my reaction.

Puppet Old Lace is a great special effect. 

Every time I see Vaughn, I can't help but be reminded of Progressive Insurance's Jaime. 

46 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Furthermore, why would Darius want to get involved in this game of gods and monsters? He's just a regular South Central gang banger who happened to find kids with lightning gloves, dinosaurs, super strength, magic, and light powers. You'd think he'd just bow out of this mess. 

Because he sees Jeffery Wilder, who was a fellow gang member, and thinks all of that could have been his. In addition, it appears that Jeffery has changed the terms of the deal they made in jail multiple times, so yeah, he's got major beef.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So was Vaughn the one who texted Jonah? I thought he was so loyal to Leslie!

What were Frank and Jonah doing at the pods of death? Was Frank volunteering to get in so Victor could be healed? That seems way too altruistic for Frank to do.

[Cranberry]

The EPs won’t confirm who the text was from. I was watching with a group of people who were worried it was from Karolina, and I hope that’s not the case (I doubt it is*, but I suppose it’s possible Jonah said something convincing to her when they were alone — we didn’t see their full conversation).

*I don't think she had anywhere to put a phone in that dress.

[kdm07]

Frank's little display in the "Private Room" was nauseating. Now you decide to care about your daughter again?

So Leslie has a weakness, her daughter. Jonah will definitely use that even more in the future if he finds out about this little coup she's staging.

Can someone explain to me why Geoffrey thought it'd be a good idea to accuse the kids of murder? How is that any safer than trying to track them down by themselves?

Poor Amy died for nothing. Leslie should watch her back because Tina will never forgive and forget this.

I wonder what's in the hole?

Old Lace! Good to see you hanging around.

So Karolina must be a whole lot stronger than I thought if her blast made Jonah start to revert back into an old man again.

Alex, making deals with Darius is not smart but I appreciate you trying to get some money for the gang. While you were gone your girl moved on though...

Random note: the two church ladies are probably the creepiest people on the show.

 

And thus ends Season 1. I liked it and I'll be back for more in Season 2.

Edited January 10, 2018 by kdm07

[starri]

I don't really get into the concept of shipping, but if I did, I'd totally be all-in on Nico and Karolina.

[Cranberry]

Based on the tweets coming out of the cast livetweeting session, you're in good company... Lyrica seems to be the captain of her own ship, as they say!

(Ginny Gardner is a good first mate.)

The cast seems to get along really well in general, which I like; when that's the case on a show it always seems to come across in the performances.

[tennisgurl]

So, most of this season has been a prologue for the actual story, after the kids run away. I just want to get right to the next season now, things are finally getting real! This was a good episode, a nice mix of wrapping some thing up, and setting them up for next season. I am really looking forward to seeing more of the kids as a group (I liked that they mixed and matched a bit with the kid pairings this week) and how they actually handle being runaways. Their attempts at being disguised were pretty hilarious, and they dont exactly seem to have a lot of street skills. But, they do have a dinosaur! 

So Nico and Karolina, huh? They seem pretty cute, I think I can ship it. I also liked Nico playing match maker with Gert and Chase, and it seems like that is going forward as well. Of course, they kind of have bigger issues than teen dating drama as of now. 

Poor Amy. Killed for nothing, and Leslie let everyone think it was suicide. Leslie better watch herself, because Tina is gonna kill her the second she doesn't need her anymore. Also loved the exchange between Leslie and the Yorkes in the basement. "We were all used" "NO SHIT!" I know the Yorkes are bad guys, but I really love them, and I still hope that maybe they could be redeemed. It took some getting used to spending so much time with the parents, but I think it worked out pretty well. I like them being more human (even if they still did awful things) and maybe even teaming up with the kids at some point against Jonas. It will be interesting with the parents going against Jonas while also trying to track their kids down through the cops.  

Those church ladies were creepy. When they were looking at Chase and Molly, it looked like they were going to inhale them right there. It wouldn't surprise me if they were actually working for Jonas. On the other hand, Vaughn is hilarious. "Who would name their kid Yawn?!"

[RachelKM]

I enjoyed this episode.  I like that the kids suck at being incognito and didn't have any realistic or formed plan for running.  It would be ludicrous for a bunch of privileged teens to be totally prepared and ready to live on their own at all, much less on the run, or to have any concept at this stage of what would be required of them.

I still think this show is unevenly written at best. The dialogue is good and specific scenes work in an of themselves.  But those scenes seem to be missing the connective tissue necessary to make them seem organic within the story. But the kids are all extremely likable and the cast, as a whole, has a lot of charisma.  As a result, the effect of the show is far greater than the sum of its parts and better than the writing deserves.  

 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Poor Amy. Killed for nothing, and Leslie let everyone think it was suicide. Leslie better watch herself, because Tina is gonna kill her the second she doesn't need her anymore.

I'm living for the scene in which they finally take out Jonah and literally the next beat Tina stabs Leslie in the throat saying, "Thanks for your help with Jonah, bitch."

Edited January 10, 2018 by RachelKM

[AnimeMania]

Why are the kids trying to get on a bus when they already have a van big enough to hold everybody and a dinosaur and enough gas money to go anywhere in the U.S.? Buy some paint and remove the logo from the side of the van.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I like that the kids suck at being incognito and didn't have any realistic or formed plan for running.  It would be ludicrous for a bunch of privileged teens to be totally prepared and ready to live on their own at all, much less on the run, or to have any concept at this stage of what would be required of them.

Yeah, I cut the kids a lot of slack when it comes to making dumb calls now that they're running away.  I actually like it, because it makes sense. Before all of this, they were a bunch of rich kids doing normal high school things (Amy was a big deal, and Molly's parents, but they still had their families) and seemed pretty sheltered in their wealthy LA enclave. Now they're on the run from the cops AND a super villain, their parents are in league with said villain, and now they have to fend for themselves with no money or resources. They're not going to be super great at surviving out there at first. 

[Cthulhudrew]

That had to be the most tedious way possible to get the kids from point a to point b in an hour.

These last couple of episodes fell flat for me on a season that started out and generally maintained a really promising, interesting premise. I think the big problems here come down to one big issue:

Low stakes: The big confrontation that was set up at the end of the previous episode, and indeed the catalyst for turning the kids into runaways in the first place, doesn't ever really land. This show actually works so much better absent the super powers. Once it tries to get the kids into superhero mode, it grinds to a halt. Partly because the budget doesn't really allow for superpowered hijinks- neither due to practical (effects) limitations, nor due to physical ones (fight choreography and stunt doubles). So what should have been this big showdown ended up being, essentially, one kid at a time doing something, it not working, then another stepping up, rinse, repeat. Until Jonah shows up and does something that makes everyone suddenly afraid.

Which then leads to the parents suddenly deciding Jonah Must Go for the sake of our kids. But we've never been given more than the vaguest hints of exactly what they have been doing for Jonah all this time (something involving digging something up from underground for... why?), nor what was in it from them this entire time. So their abrupt about face when it comes to Jonah really doesn't have any emotional heft to it, since we never really get to see them having to make a difficult decision between about it. We never really see him do anything terribly threatening to them or the kids (he blasts them with some light show, but they're clearly left unhurt, so why so afraid?).

And without knowing more details about the Nefarious Plot, we still really don't have any sense of the stakes for the kids in all this, and why this decision to oppose their parents is such a big deal. Sure, it seems like they may be involved in the deaths of some kids, but no one seems to know why (or care much at this point, ever since Chase smashed their evidence.)

Add to that all the running around in this episode that didn't make a lot of sense. The kidnapping of Karolina plot was just filler to give everyone a reason to run around for a bit, but it never felt like there was any real consequence if they just left her or not. And they don't seem to care about the world coming to an end any more. Meanwhile, the parents are only just now (after almost two decades) wondering what is really going on themselves. Then there's the thing with Alex and Darius which... I have no clue what that whole storyline is supposed to be about.

Of course, the biggest question is: Does Gert just happen to have a lot of colored wigs, or did she somehow find the time (and money) to dye her hair several times in just a couple of days while the kids are on the run? 

[Zuleikha]

Of course, the biggest question is: Does Gert just happen to have a lot of colored wigs, or did she somehow find the time (and money) to dye her hair several times in just a couple of days while the kids are on the run?

Molly, Chase, and Nico got Gert a green-colored wig at the thrift store. Gert wore it and then stopped.

I've read people complaining about the pace and that the middle was filler, but I disagree. I think it needed one or two more episodes to get in some more exposition before the finale. The people I saw complaining about the pace were comic book readers who were already familiar with the kids, but as a non-comic book reader, I would have liked an episode where all the kids used their powers effectively (maybe as a group, maybe not). I loved the scenes with Gert and Old Lace, but it was hard to buy their connection when Gert barely spent time with her. Also, we never got to see Gert use Old Lace in effective action. Likewise, I wanted to see Chase, Karolina, and Nico really use their powers effectively (prior to the big fight). 

On top of that, I wanted more exposition on the parents and Jonah. We got some good hints, but I wanted the equivalent of what we saw with the Wilders. How/why did Jonah bring these particular couples into his circle of power and what did he actually give them? Especially with the more fantastic elements removed, what did these generally brilliant people need Jonah for? I also think thought there was an implication that Jonah groomed Leslie to bear his child, but if that's true, I needed that spelled out more (and if not, I also would have liked a little more spelled out about Leslie's actual beliefs vs. the hints of who/what Jonah really is).

I don't know why the show got rid of the magic of the Staff of One given that the MCU has it. Right now, Tina has the staff and it makes no sense for Nico to have it. I'm sure s2 will reveal that somehow Nico gets it by plot contrivance, but if the staff were magical, they could have kept the cool bit where Tina tries to use the staff against Nico and Nico absorbs it. I know they don't want to keep the cutting element for good reason, but they could have simply changed it (or had Nico not physically absorb it but summon it... or heck, she's a goth Wiccan... have her have some of her menstrual blood collected and use that to summon the staff). 

I agree that the show set up Gert's feelings for Chase and Karolina's for Nico but not the reverse. I don't mind Chase realizing that he actually has feelings for Gert because Karolina became clearly uninterested and there were a lot of references to him being particularly close with Gert. It was a little out of the blue, but IMHO, not unbelievably so for someone that age. But Nico seemed to be truly interested in Alex. Her being hurt and breaking up with him that he kept Amy's secrets from her made some sense--although it seemed a little disproportionate with the contrast of no one getting mad at Chase for destroying the decrypted footage--but there was just NOTHING to lead to the sudden reciprocation of Karolina's feelings... especially, the way Lyrica played it as Nico madly, desperately in soulmate love with Karolina. IIRC, their main interactions were Nico snarking on Karolina in the women's bathroom and Karolina realizing her feelings for Nico while they changed together (with Nico seemingly oblivious).

There's plenty left for s2, so I'll definitely be back for it. I would love it if Robert gets some equivalent of his comic book magic powers and Janet starts inventing for the parents' group against Victor, as well as more of the teens using smarts and abilities. But I wish s1 had been more complete as a standalone. I read up on the equivalent story in the comic books, but the show is VERY different.

[Cthulhudrew]

10 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Molly, Chase, and Nico got Gert a green-colored wig at the thrift store. Gert wore it and then stopped.

Ah- I nodded off at one point and clearly missed that. Hope I didn't miss anything else notable. :(

[Cranberry]

While the “I’m not leaving you” may have been unearned, I disagree that Nico’s feelings came out of absolutely nowhere. The actresses have pointed out in interviews that there are several little looks and touches between them (like Nico brushing Karolina’s hair back while talking about her powers, or... anything in that scene where they’re getting dressed, like Karolina lacing her fingers with Nico’s and helping her put her ring on — I mean, come on, who needs help putting a ring on?). I’d also buy that Nico has been at least considering it since Karolina almost confessed to her in her room; the look on her face suggested she knew Karolina was talking about her, and even Gert, without hearing a word of the conversation, picked up on the tension in the room. That said, yeah, the buildup was subtle, maybe too subtle considering that many fans didn’t see it coming. I do have to wonder if people would have picked up on it if one of the girls had been a guy, though.

[Zuleikha]

 That said, yeah, the buildup was subtle, maybe too subtle considering that many fans didn’t see it coming. I do have to wonder if people would have picked up on it if one of the girls had been a guy, though.

The problem, IMHO, was that it was primarily shown from Karolina's POV. We all picked up on Karolina's feelings for Nico. But Nico appeared to be reciprocating Alex's feelings in her main storyline and the majority of her screentime. Chase's turn from Karolina to Gert was almost as bad (and has also been plenty criticized!) but at least there was some teeny foundation with all the mentions of Chase/Gert's prior closeness and Chase keeping Gert's secret about the dinosaur. 

I'm not really sure what the show was going for with how they wrote Alex/Nico/Karolina given what they knew was going to happen, other than a bait-and-switch with the comic book readers. For me, a slower triangle would have worked better. I wouldn't have any problem buying Nico as confused. It's just the all-in for Karolina that I feel was unearned.

Just a little? ?

:) Okay, a lot. 

The whole thing with Chase smashing the laptop was just bad writing to begin with because that wouldn't destroy the hard drive AND Alex had plenty of time to make backups. Heck, shouldn't they still have the original encrypted video on the flash drive? That can be de-encrypted again. Chase is a secret engineer, so the writers should have had him degauss the laptop before Alex had finished encrypting it and then used the extra time to both have the kids react more strongly and write a justification for them forgiving Chase.

[kdm07]

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

While the “I’m not leaving you” may have been unearned, I disagree that Nico’s feelings came out of absolutely nowhere. The actresses have pointed out in interviews that there are several little looks and touches between them (like Nico brushing Karolina’s hair back while talking about her powers, or... anything in that scene where they’re getting dressed, like Karolina lacing her fingers with Nico’s and helping her put her ring on — I mean, come on, who needs help putting a ring on?). I’d also buy that Nico has been at least considering it since Karolina almost confessed to her in her room; the look on her face suggested she knew Karolina was talking about her, and even Gert, without hearing a word of the conversation, picked up on the tension in the room. That said, yeah, the buildup was subtle, maybe too subtle considering that many fans didn’t see it coming. I do have to wonder if people would have picked up on it if one of the girls had been a guy, though.

Yeah that was a pretty big clue for me. A few of those lines definitely had some innuendo and just before Gert & Molly walked in, you could see the realisation on Nico's face. They could've been more obvious about it but when I did my re-watch just yesterday, I saw the little hints they had put in there.

Just so I'm clear on this, Jonah needs Victor for the box thingy right especially now that his skin is peeling again? I thought the parents kept saying this is the last time blah, blah, blah so why would Jonah need Victor (before he discovered that he needed to re-up his skincare routine)?

[Cranberry]

I think a few things contribute... many queer fans are more used to looking for subtext between pairs of the same sex, so will pick up on tiny things; comics readers were watching for any hints of the pairing (I won't post any book talk here, but there's been a will they/won't they discussion around the girls for a long time, so the TV series' writers may wrongly feel they can take shortcuts); and the actresses maybe played it too subtle thinking everyone was expecting it anyway. I like the pairing, just as I like Gert and Chase, but I feel like only Karolina's feelings for Nico, Alex's feelings for Nico, and Gert's feelings for Chase were obvious on the show. Nico was harder to read (with both Alex* and Karolina, at least until Alex's kidnapping/Karolina's showdown with Jonah, when her, "What if I lose this person before things really get started" panic set in) and Chase's feelings for Gert were barely hinted at, either. The show's not really about romance, which is fine -- we've got enough plot going on -- but the writers could stand to develop these relationships more before diving right in to the "I'm not leaving you" type of proclamations. Maybe the three extra episodes next season will help.

*Interestingly, Lyrica Okano states in this interview that "[Nico's] always had a crush on Alex, and Alex has always had a crush on Nico." The latter, yes; even Amy commented on how his crush had been obvious since he was 11, but I wouldn't have guessed the former. 

 

1 hour ago, doram said:

It looked like Gert picking up on Karolina's one-sided crush on Nico. Like she specifically tells her at a point that "ooh this is fun! Chase likes you but you like Nico but Nico likes Alex."

And yeah, this is kind of what I meant... Karolina's feelings were so obvious that Gert picked up on them even without hearing her words, so Nico, who those words were directed at, almost certainly suspected Karolina was talking about her. That's what I got from that look on her face, anyway. I think the later kiss surprised her but didn't shock her, basically.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I enjoyed the first season for the most part. They did IMO a good job of defining the key characters and their motivations, and made it easy to invest in the kids' sense of peril. However, I thought this finale was the weakest episode of the ten. After big opening showdown scene it seemed to me like a lot of cheap filler until the ending when they showed each kid (and the velociraptor!) running away. I wonder if the producers  knew whether the show was being renewed when this episode was filmed? They left several potential cliffhangers but none of left me feeling like .I can't wait until season 2.

[STOPSHOUTING]

Just finished the series with my son and I have ... thoughts.  On the plus side, while I enjoy the Marvel MCU, I'm not a comics fan and this is the first superhero TV show we've finished a full season of, other than THE FLASH (which we bailed on during season 2, I believe).

That's due in large part to this only having 10 episodes, though I think the show could have told the story, far better, in five or six. After the set-up of the parents evil quasi-cult and Jonah is an immortal superbad they just needed to, you know, run away already. We knew they'd survive to do so. It's in the title after all, so there's little suspense. It's no shock that Molly's parents and Nico's sister were victims of the cult. I mean, duh. And there was soooo much filler. So, your lives are in constant mortal danger and we're supposed to care about if Molly makes dance squad or Chase and Gert get it on? Not so much. (By the way, if this is supposed to be a teen soap, skipping the actual scene and then just later saying "we had sex" is a weird play, though having them done in under 10 minutes does seem age appropriate, LOL.)

The last two episodes in particular just ran around in circles, literally. When they White Fang the dinosaur who, by the way, has had ZERO impact, I seriously thought it was because the show couldn't afford the CGI. It was very lame, especially when they continued to camp out in the same spot and now had a van they could move her around in. It was also cruel, because she's a domesticated animal who almost certainly doesn't know how to hunt or survive on her own. So, then she shows up again and ... They immediately forget about her; not even checking on her as they run away. Luckily, the dino is smarter than the kids and follows them ... in a scene the actors clearly weren't told it would be in, because they never even looked back. "Hey, who's that chasing us? Oh, it's just Gert's dinosaur we haven't seen in a few days. Cool, no need to glance back then!" Also, "Old Lace," may be comics canon (I presume), but geez that's a stupid name for anything, let alone a velcioraptor.

The entire "buy a disguise" portion was truly stupid, to the point it actually angered me. First, how much cash would even rich kids have them on at a school dance? Wasting even a few bucks of it is ridiculously dumb. Second, THEY DON'T NEED NEW CLOTHES. They need transportation. They need shelter. They need food. Argghhh!

Thirty minutes for a dumb fashion show where they buy clothes that look exactly like the clothes they were already wearing and call them "disguises," most of which aren't even practical and comfortable (shortalls, seriously?). Really want to hide? Hey, about a Dollar Store dye job to cover Gert's purple-hair? Or Goth Girl ditching the dark duds to blend in? Oh and, by the way, where WAS Nico getting a fresh goth outfit, lip ring we hadn't seen until then, new, elaborate make-up and assembling another ridiculously elaborate hair-do that took, conservatively, 60 minutes-plus and a boatload of product IN THE FREAKING WOODS? Do you know how quickly black lipstick wears off, especially when you're making out on the reg? I guess I missed the cosmetic case she's clearly lugging around. Oh and Nico isn't the only one sporting mega-hair product ... Looking at you, Chase. Looking at you.

I know, I know ... Suspension of disbelief and I'm sure that's how they dress in the comics, but it ticked me off every time I saw them. Because it was...Just. So. Stupid. Like, what is the weather really like? Because they're all clearly dressed for different climates. If they'd just shown up dressed that way, instead of it taking up 20+ minutes of an episode, it would be far easier to accept in that tv-characters-always-look-good-even-when-they-can't-shower-or-change way.

There are the normal gripes about how the bad guy waits to fight them, one by one, so they can all show their powers ... Which is a lot easier to accept when they're more useful and interesting than what we have here, which basically is a couple gloves, a pet dino, super strength, a magic staff they lost immediately and ... glowing. Alex is, I guess, the tech guy. Also, too bad/so lucky that his folks didn't just TURN THEIR HEADS SLIGHTLY when they left the church. Like, the blocking in that scene was so dumb. HE WAS 3' AWAY FROM THEM. How scary of super villains can they be, when they missed their own son, whom they were purportedly frantically searching for, due to him being slightly to their left?

Getting them to a bus station is ... stupid. They have a van. They now have, however improbably, a wad of cash. Getting on a bus makes them much, MUCH more vulnerable, not less. I know it's a fantasy show, not a reality-based drama and, I swear, I'm not TRYING to pick it apart, but as all the dumbness kept mounting I just couldn't help it.

Overall, while this started out promisingly, and my son liked it more than me, it took too long to get where we all knew it was always going. There was way too much about the parents' interpersonal lives, and too many sidetracks that just didn't work with the kids. The high school stuff, since you knew they were never gonna stay, was especially filler-y ... Was anyone, anywhere, on pins and needles about if Chase would make up with his lacrosse teammates? Thought not.

The show did a lousy job of explaining why the parents would ever have got involved with Jonah in the first place, especially beyond Alex's parents and Leslie. They seemed to want to keep the 'rents semi-redeemable, but their actions make it impossible to do so, as there is NO good reason to be involved in a two decade long murder spree. A promise of "clean energy" is the excuse? Seriously?!?! 

That lengthy scene where Leslie makes this long confession, blah, blah, blah ... Like, they're just NOW thinking about how Amy died and that it might be related to Pride? We're supposed to buy that? I mean, they did the whole spell, hid all her stuff, put an alarm on the door, but this JUST NOW occurs to them, YEARS later, to have this confrontation AND then, immediately, are like, 'OK, we're good, let's work together'? Oh and, Nico finding that backpack? For real? Like, the kid died in that bed, so even if you preserved the room like a shrine, pretty sure you'd have changed the sheets at least once. Not to mention, knowing she had broken into your system and maybe discovered your murder cult you might, I don't know, have done a quick look-see around the place, especially when you knew things like her phone was missing. (Plus, all the Wizard super-tech yet they didn't have Find My iPhone? Seriously?!?!).

Leslie turns on Jonah after AN ENTIRE LIFE spent mindlessly serving him because he knocked the kids over with a light blast, when murdering a bunch of people, including another child she knows AND two members of their parent group, didn't do it? Uh-huh. Sure. Just like how Ever Carradine was suddenly all concerned about Spike ... After having shot him herself because he tried to kill their kid. Sure, Jan.

 So, umm, yeah, maybe I didn't love it. ? Thanks for letting me rant ...

Edited January 16, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[STOPSHOUTING]

On 12/26/2017 at 3:41 PM, doram said:

Am I the only one who is low-key irritated with Gert's intrusive investment in Karolina's sexuality? She's trying to shame Karolina into coming out just to further her own romantic pursuit of Chase. 

Nope. Gert telling Karolina she likes Nico is also the only indication that's actually given by anyone, including Karolina, that she is into Nico. I'm sure we're supposed to think that Gert saw all this interplay we didn't, but her initial comment, and then repeated insistence on it, really comes out of nowhere in terms of what the audience is shown.

[moonshine71]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:38 PM, doram said:

 

The touches looked like more evidence of Karolina's one-sided feelings with  Nico being  oblivious. Plus if I need to watch a "behind the scenes" documentary to understand that Nico had feelings for Karolina, the scene failed to do it's job. 

 

 

To be fair, I didn't really buy the whole group of friends in its entirety. Alex, for all his "get the group back together" gusto, really didn't seem to be interested in or even like anyone but Nico. None of their relationships really felt all that strong to me, I couldn't imagine a time when they would  all sit together at lunch or do anything as a group other than being occasionally being forced to by their families, and even then I'd imagine them texting on their phone the whole time until they could leave.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, moonshine71 said:

To be fair, I didn't really buy the whole group of friends in its entirety. Alex, for all his "get the group back together" gusto, really didn't seem to be interested in or even like anyone but Nico. None of their relationships really felt all that strong to me, I couldn't imagine a time when they would  all sit together at lunch or do anything as a group other than being occasionally being forced to by their families, and even then I'd imagine them texting on their phone the whole time until they could leave.

The group reminds me of being part of a minority ethnic community in an town where there aren't a ton of families of the same ethnicity. You find that you end up socializing with these families regardless of whether you actually have ton in common. I know kids that I spent a ton of time with, but we weren't really friends and yet we all knew a ton about each other. We even had fun together. But we never forgot that we were hanging together not of our own volition. When I would describe these kids, I would say "We're not really friends friends; we're Nigerian together." That's what the PRIDE kids remind me of.

[AKA...CJ86]

Really late catching up on this one...

I'm not that familiar with the comic, I know of the character and some of the backstory, so I'm not going to ever get too deep on this happened the comics and it's different here, and after what, over ten years, it is still on my eventually to read list.  I remember when this was supposed to be a film many a year ago...

So, Molly's a mutant, isn't she?  But because of studio shenanigans probably won't be mentioned as such...

Karolina's bracelet was keeping her trippy, cosmic powers in check... probably? 

Like Chaos Theory mentioned, I always loved the premise of finding out your parents are bad guys.

Nice seeing Angel Parker again.  Awe, Lab Rats seems like so long ago...

[AKA...CJ86]

Destiny, Girl, you in danger...  I felt so bad the first time for the character, I felt even worse seeing it from the parent's perspective.

The parents were more interesting than the kids.  With such a large cast of characters, I enjoyed the retelling of the first episode.

To agree with some of the previous posters, again I'm really late on this one, but again, I agree with the point that the female characters, let's just say some of the mothers, seemed to the more evil characters with a couple of the fathers being painted in a sympathetic light.

[AKA...CJ86]

The parents are still the more interesting side of the story.  I'd rather follow them completely.

I didn't mind the dino as part of the story, it was more the look of it.

I'm finding Robert the most interesting character.  The relationship with Tina and Nico, and then the affair with Janet.  Unless I missed it, but I'd by Tina this episode if she was maybe characterized in a way leading up to the sexy times in the restaurant maybe over the past two episodes.  In a story with a cult-like church, supervillain? parents, and so on, this is what I'm finding the most interesting.  

They just had to mention Yucatán, I'm officially in love with The Yorkes.

I did like seeds this episode and the past few, have planted over which sets of parents may betray the others if needed... depending the story goes.  I see the kids sticking through it thick and thin moving on and the parents will slowly start turning on each other.  I hate obviously setups so I hope I'm wrong...

I'm hooked.  I wasn't feeling it with the first episode but loved this one and the second one.

Edited March 3, 2018 by CyberJawa1986

[AKA...CJ86]

So, Chase and Daddy build the fist-whateverthey'recalled and Daddy will be the first one to feel Chase's wrath with them. Probably...

Devious Tina, she's definitely rising as my favorite character, almost edging out the Yorkes.  PI, magic staff, alpha user in the home...

And yeah, the rival kidnapped Alex, huh.  And so far, Alex and maybe Molly, are the only kids I'm liking at the moment.

I know I'm way behind on this one, so I don't mind spoilers to anyone who replies.

[AKA...CJ86]

The series is interesting, but so far, no for me, but I'll see it through to the end.  I think so far, this is the strongest episode.

I agree with whats been said, I think the Pride is just getting too complicated.

[AKA...CJ86]

So, the pieces come into play for some of the parents to start betraying each other... expected.

I was expecting the kids to for sure stay together until the end, and the parents slowly decimate each other as the series goes on, but it seems maybe Nico and Chase and their feelings could cloud their judgment and they go back on the planning.

Always good to see Stan Lee.  I wasn't expecting it, a highlight of the episode.

Frank, oh Frank, Leslie and/or Jonah are gonna off him aren't they?

I'm trying to picture who will off who and who may forgive who?  I bet Tina takes back Robert and Victor offs Janet?

[AKA...CJ86]

Give the Yorkes a spin-off... that is sitcom gold right there.

I'm so invested in the Tina, Robert, Janet stuff...

I think it's interesting to see Karolina and Molly talk about their powers... but Gert can order around a dino, which seems to be MIA lately... that is a lot cooler than Molly and Karolina's typical comic book power base.

I keep thinking I have the PRIDE, the church, Jonah, messages from the future figured out and another little something gives me a headache and has me rethink my theory.  Can the show just tell me now what all the stuff is about?

A criminal organization where murder and sacrifice good, divorce bad. 

I've enjoyed the past couple episodes a lot more.  I take it the running away part will be the finale... or does it stand for the runaways that church/Pride have sacrificed... or all of the above?

[AKA...CJ86]

Janet and Robert, I was pulling for you, you crazy kids.

Leslie yanking off her earring was the moment of the season so far.

All of a sudden Frank is important. Somehow he becomes Jonah's key player, doesn't he?  As the other members start turning on each other...  

Way back when Enigma X posted about those two men trying to help Destiny... so yeah, what about them?  Is that something that just gets left dangled with a couple episodes left?

So, the obvious with Chase finally happened, but we all know it will be short-lived and he'll be back with the kids.

[Cranberry]

Agreed, that earring pull was flawless. I had to go back and watch it a couple times. I still laugh when I see it!

[starri]

I just realized, "Tsunami" was the name of a short-lived Marvel Comics imprint that published manga-inspired comics in the early 00s.  One of which was Runaways.

What you did there, I see it.

[AKA...CJ86]

Line of the night... "This better not be a crack baby."  

Honestly kinda don't like any of the kids--slightly like Karolina and Molly as they seem to be compassionate characters, I'm still finding the parents more interesting and liking them more... murderous warts and all.  Stacey is the episode MVP this go around.

You know what would have been nice security Gert, that dino you can boss around...

[AKA...CJ86]

I just wish we had more answers to Jonah's control over the parents... nobody questioned the "clean energy"

I think show tried to redeem Leslie, but with all the revelations of the Season, no way.  I just TIna did kill her.  

I hope Frank is keeping tabs on Jonah over being power hungry or what have you, was really liking that knucklehead a few episodes back...

So, how long does Jonah last before getting all shrively again?  And somehow this will come into play in the future, he'll somehow blackmail or control the parents again to assist him...

[Danny Franks]

I finally got around to starting this, and based on the first couple of episodes, I really like it. I don't mind the extra drama between the kids, because it's not that much higher than the original comic had, at least in terms of distance between them. This version just adds more meat to the bones, and some pathos for them to work through.

But the kids are all perfectly cast. The only one who isn't immediately identifiable is Molly, although her personality is similar. But the others are dead on. And the glimpses they've shown of the powers they have are faithful to the subject matter too. 

I never paid much attention to the kids' parents. They were all pretty awful, I seem to recall, but there wasn't a lot of depth to any of them. Except maybe Alex's dad. Clearly the show is going to spend more time focusing on them, and that makes sense, particularly given the familiar faces among the adult cast (also, how old do I feel, being able to remember when Kip Pardue was being touted as the next big thing... now he's playing a teenager's dad). The central conceit of a group of kids who found out that their parents really are evil was always great, but Brian K. Vaughan didn't really delve into the emotional turmoil of that.

I do love the stereotypes being employed. Cold, aloof scientists, fixed smile cultists, oversharing new age parents, as well as a couple of seemingly warm, caring parents. They had a bit of fun with each of those ideas, before the reveal.

I am intrigued as to whether they'll depart in any major ways from the comic book, and what that would mean for the show, and the characters. 

[SherriAnt]

On 06/01/2018 at 3:51 AM, Zuleikha said:

My current theory is that Leslie's father promised her to Jonah for her to bear Jonah a child. I think Leslie is a true believer of whatever she's believed, and I don't think she saw herself as having any real choice. The picture suggests she's been groomed since a young age.

I completely agree, and I also got creepy pedo/incest vibes during all the scenes between Jonah and Karolina.