S08.E03: Monsters

[ShadowSixx]

You know what I would love to see happen. Morgan should at least say to Jesus that if he lets him kill Jared (long haired Savior) he won't kill the others. Then again I don't know what's stopping Tara & Morgan from putting bullets in their heads. Just because Jesus says no doesn't make it law. What is Jesus going to do if Tara & Morgan decided to kill them.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I must say, if it is has been TPTB's mission (in the last 2 seasons' worth of episodes) to make us want to stand up and cheer when most of these side - and even some of the main - characters get killed off, they are doing a fantastic job of it;  and no, I don't mean mostly just the Saviors. 

My own personal list has too many names to count.  Aside from Sasha and Eric [& Glenn to start off last season], everyone else that has (and will) die recently will be seen off with a interally praised "Good riddance!".

Edited November 7, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Dobian]

It just dawned on me that Gregory is the Dr. Smith of this show.  No matter how many times Dr. Smith betrayed the Robinsons and almost got Will or the whole bunch of them killed, he just put on his sad mopey face and they welcomed him back on board.  That was exactly the scene with Gregory at the Hilltop gate.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Dobian

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

In regards to the Morales scene - like many scenes or sub-plots, it had no point whatsoever. He did nothing but talk, changed nothing, didn't further the plot or create a new one. Really, why was he here? That whole long scene was all for nothing. The fillers in this are getting worse. Got too much time? Have someone - anyone - start talking about nothing relevant or meaningful or even mildly interesting. My god, this is bad.

Yup. It was a gimmick. Plain and simple. He was brought in for ratings. There was all this scuttle about a returning cast member, and they hoped that would get people to tune in. How about, oh....I don't know, creating a compelling story???

[millennium]

40 minutes ago, Dobian said:

It just dawned on me that Gregory is the Dr. Smith of this show.  No matter how many times Dr. Smith betrayed the Robinsons and almost got Will or the whole bunch of them killed, he just put on his sad mopey face and they welcomed him back on board.  That was exactly the scene with Gregory at the Hilltop gate.

Oh the pain, the pain!   Gregory is the only character that made smile in this episode, just because he's so ludicrous.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

In regards to the Morales scene - like many scenes or sub-plots, it had no point whatsoever. He did nothing but talk, changed nothing, didn't further the plot or create a new one. Really, why was he here? That whole long scene was all for nothing. The fillers in this are getting worse. Got too much time? Have someone - anyone - start talking about nothing relevant or meaningful or even mildly interesting. My god, this is bad.

 

Awww, didn't you groove to that neo-Nietzschean, freshman-year-of-scriptwriting gimmick of the hero being forced to consider that after years of fighting monsters he has become one himself?    For like the 100th time in this series? 

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I see the captive Saviors are being called hostages and not prisoners. What will Jesus do with them as a bargaining tool? "Negan, we want you and your henchmen to come outside and line up like sitting ducks so we can get a shot at you but just waste 8000 rounds of ammo."?  Oh, wait... Okay. "We want you and your henchmen to come outside and line up like sitting ducks again so we can get a shot at you and waste another 8000 rounds of ammo." There, that's better.

Hee!!!

1 hour ago, ShadowSixx said:

You know what I would love to see happen. Morgan should at least say to Jesus that if he lets him kill Jared (long haired Savior) he won't kill the others. Then again I don't know what's stopping Tara & Morgan from putting bullets in their heads. Just because Jesus says no doesn't make it law. What is Jesus going to do if Tara & Morgan decided to kill them.

Morgan should have shot Jared instead of the other Savior he shot and killed.  This is all so contrived.  The first chance he gets, Jared will cause more problems.  That's why agitators are taken out first.  Tara should have shot the other Saviors while Morgan and Jesus were fighting.  She had plenty of time to do so.

Quote

Was this week a rerun?   Of last week?

Yes.

If Carol doesn't kick some ass, and tell Zeke to STFU, then Shiva better.  That's right with all the other idiotic implausible crap they've decided to throw into the show, they might as well make Shiva a talking Tiger, and unlike the morons on this show that don't know when to stop yakking, Shiva will be quick and to the point.

[HighMaintenance]

8 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

they might as well make Shiva a talking Tiger, and unlike the morons on this show that don't know when to stop yakking, Shiva will be quick and to the point.

Mmmmm.... Saviours!  They'rrrrrrrrre Grrrrrrrrreat!

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I'm waiting for the episode in which we learn that Maggie is gradually being possessed by the spirit of a Confederate soldier.   It's the only explanation for her ever-thickening accent.   Two weeks from now, we'll need subtitles.

See, this is why I can't quit this show. You guys are killing me with this stuff!

 

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

No matter how many times Dr. Smith betrayed the Robinsons and almost got Will or the whole bunch of them killed, he just put on his sad mopey face and they welcomed him back on board.  That was exactly the scene with Gregory at the Hilltop gate.

Gregory is a cartoon, like everyone else is now, and is playing the cartoony-villainly thing perfectly. He was the only character I found amusing/interesting lately and now he ruined it by the actor being a dirty old man begging some 19 year old girl for pics of her in her underpants. Ugh. I look at him now and am merely disgusted, and worried about Enid.

7 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

they might as well make Shiva a talking Tiger, and unlike the morons on this show that don't know when to stop yakking, Shiva will be quick and to the point.

Oh, please, from your mouth to TPTB's ears. That would make this show so much better, considering how far it's fallen. Let's have Shiva talk, or at least do the internal dialogue thing like in the movie "Look Who's Talking Now" and give her an ironic Roseanne Barr voice.  I can't wait to hear her observations on this bunch of dumbasses and dipshits she's forced to be around. I just know she'd drip sarcasm.

[TigerLynx]

Shiva observing Rick and Company shoot all the windows at the Savior compound, "Unbelievable.  It's amazing I haven't starved to death.  How the hell have these incompetent idiots been able to feed me all this time?"

Walks over to Team Rick, "Okay children.  Pay attention.  This is how you stalk and kill prey.  Learn quickly because the next time we go out, I expect you all to actually hit and kill something, and if you don't, I will have you for dinner instead."

Walks toward Negan.  Negan starts yakking, "It's that goddamn tiger again.  This is how things work tiger, I'm going to take Lucille here and . . ." Shiva takes Negan's head off with one swipe of her paw.

[KirkB]

3 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Walks toward Negan.  Negan starts yakking, "It's that goddamn tiger again.  This is how things work tiger, I'm going to take Lucille here and . . ." Shiva takes Negan's head off with one swipe of her paw.

This is the only season finale, mid or otherwise, I will accept now. Thank you.  :)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

With a name like Shiva, I want to see some ninja-paws action.

Or she can go incognito from time to time.  Put a saddle and headmask on her, and call her Battle Cat.

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 Tara should have shot the other Saviors while Morgan and Jesus were fighting.  She had plenty of time to do so.

Tara is a just a Twizzler-sucking cheerleader. Remember when Daryl was going to kill Dwight (before they became note-passing BFFs) and Tara stood there yelling, "KILL HIM!" when she could have done it just as easily herself. Outcome: No one kills Dwight, much to my disappointment.

[Mu Shu]

6 hours ago, millennium said:

Was this week a rerun?   Of last week?

I'm waiting for the episode in which we learn that Maggie is gradually being possessed by the spirit of a Confederate soldier.   It's the only explanation for her ever-thickening accent.   Two weeks from now, we'll need subtitles.

Shet yer maoth!  Maggie is a-running this heah heeltop and don’t need no guff frum nunya dayum Yankees. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

38 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Shet yer maoth!  Maggie is a-running this heah heeltop and don’t need no guff frum nunya dayum Yankees. 

Stop making fun of the pregnant lady, or I'll sick Coral on y'all.

[mxc90]

We haven't seen any of Alexandria in weeks, I wonder if Neegan's people paid them a visit while Rick and others have been away.

Edited November 8, 2017 by mxc90

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

Shet yer maoth!  Maggie is a-running this heah heeltop and don’t need no guff frum nunya dayum Yankees. 

Sort of a cross between Aunt PittyPat in "Gone with the Wind" and Granny Clampett, or maybe even less well-spoken Scarlett: "Ah ain't nevah gon' be hongry agin!"

[peach]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

As usual, she frowned mightily which seems to be the extent of her reaction to most things, no matter how outrageous, such as in this case with Jesus (I know a lot of people think he's "pretty" but I just see a pallid little, bug-eyed irritant ridiculously dressed for a trek through Siberia) foisting the Saviors on her. This, after she let in the old perve who betrayed them. Gregory must be snickering at how simple it is to pull the wool over her eyes. Who the hell put her in charge, anyway?

She's only there because of her condition and because of the shambles that is Alexandria, who killed their own damn doctor.  Her other claim to fame is her own group ran so afoul of the Saviors that her husband got his brains bashed to tiny bits in front of her.  So she's a colonist from Team Plague and is also in "a delicate condition" as they say.  But should totally be in charge of the Hilltop.  Jesus doesn't WANT to be in charge, but he wants to tell everyone what to do.  Now she's let in the enemy.  All dumb. 

I fast forwarded thru some parts and watched some of the rest, and I was a little dumbstruck that Rick handed over a tiny infant to Aaron, who is floundering in fresh, terribly acted, grief over Eric, ,who died like five seconds ago.  Here, though, take this stranger's baby and drive around with it if it makes you feel better, tho.  Totally.  And take it to aforementioned HILLTOP where idiots reign because "she'll be safe there."  ???  Who wouldn't take a baby to the Pottery Barn showcase houses in Alexandria?  You know who knows how to rock a baby?  Daryl, that's who.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Considering the water running off of them during the standoff, I wanted Rick to comeback at Morales with;

"Are we really sweating the little labeling details right now??  Either shoot me or get out the way, I'm walking 'round in some soggy ass boots and I need a new pair a socks.".

[AngelaHunter]

13 hours ago, peach said:

fast forwarded thru some parts and watched some of the rest, and I was a little dumbstruck that Rick handed over a tiny infant to Aaron, who is floundering in fresh, terribly acted, grief over Eric,

Oh, Aaron! Every time I find someone to actually like on this show, they let me down. That whole death scene - the maudlin, swelling music, the declarations of undying love and managing to get out all the picture-perfect words just before expiry - god, it's so trite and has been done so many times in TV and movies that it now just engenders eyerolls, in me anyway.

As for Rick passing him the baby - that's nothing. I seem to recall him handing Judith to Father Pee (who would probably pull a kangaroo move and dump the baby to save himself if pursued) to protect and just walking away.  "Oh, she'll be fine!" If Rick cared so little about his own child (or Shane's child, but whatever) I can't imagine him giving much of a rat's furry butt over someone else's squalling brat he got saddled with on his murder mission.

[iMonrey]

Quote

In regards to the Morales scene - like many scenes or sub-plots, it had no point whatsoever

It had a point - but unfortunately, it was a stupid one. The accusation that Rick is no different than Negan is absurd. You know how I can tell? Rick isn't going to take the hostages from this compound, line them up on their knees, and bash two of their heads in with a baseball bat just to make the others behave. He's not going to smile and laugh and lean back and hoot and holler and say things like "Damn! That is just gross as hell!" and get off on bashing someone's head in. Because he's not a deranged, sociopathic masochist. He's done terrible things to survive or protect his people but he doesn't get off on it the way Negan does. 

Has Morales seen Negan burn people's faces off with an iron? Has he seen him bash people over the head with "Lucille?" Does he think Rick does that kind of shit? 

There might have been an opportunity here to actually show the difference between Rick and Negan, and for Morales to learn it. Unfortunately, that didn't seem to be the intention. I'm not even sure the writers get that.

[Lady Iris]

48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Has Morales seen Negan burn people's faces off with an iron? Has he seen him bash people over the head with "Lucille?" Does he think Rick does that kind of shit? 

Nope, he shoulda glared at Morales and spouted out with "I'm Rick Grimes bitch!" Cue Daryl killing Morales. End scene.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

It had a point - but unfortunately, it was a stupid one.

Oh, thanks. I guess I kind of zone out whenever a monologue starts, the way I used to whenever CDB had gags in their mouths and were being taunted by some long-winded psycho or other.

But maybe Morales was thinking of how Rick and his little army crept into the Savior outpost and murdered them all in their beds as they slept (or were in suspended animation or maybe comas) but we know he didn't gloat about it!

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It had a point - but unfortunately, it was a stupid one. The accusation that Rick is no different than Negan is absurd. You know how I can tell? Rick isn't going to take the hostages from this compound, line them up on their knees, and bash two of their heads in with a baseball bat just to make the others behave. He's not going to smile and laugh and lean back and hoot and holler and say things like "Damn! That is just gross as hell!" and get off on bashing someone's head in. Because he's not a deranged, sociopathic masochist. He's done terrible things to survive or protect his people but he doesn't get off on it the way Negan does. 

Has Morales seen Negan burn people's faces off with an iron? Has he seen him bash people over the head with "Lucille?" Does he think Rick does that kind of shit? 

There might have been an opportunity here to actually show the difference between Rick and Negan, and for Morales to learn it. Unfortunately, that didn't seem to be the intention. I'm not even sure the writers get that.

You, and I, and all of us know that - outside of that little matter of the surreptitious assassination of an entire Savior outpost - Rick isn’t head-bashing or face-burning or anything else heinous; we, after all, have the benefit of the omniscient camera to inform us.  By what token, though, do you think Morales - and by extension, the rest of the Saviors - DON’T think Rick is doing all this stuff?  Does anybody honestly think Negan is being painstakingly honest in his portrayal of CDB to the Savior rank and file?  

Hell, Negan certainly has his propaganda machine fired up to paint Rick & Company in as scurrilous a light as possible - passing on stories of them cannibalizing captured Saviors as they’re being cooked alive, and Baby Brunches every other Sunday.  It’s in Negan’s best interests to vilify CDB as ultra-extreme baddies - way worse than Negan, of course, who is only “hard but fair” - to fire up the Saviors and convince them they’re fighting the fight of the righteous, that no quarter can be given these murderous savages in Alexandria if the Saviors’ “beneficent autocracy” (which is familiar, at least, and currently supports them all) is to survive.  And their leader ‘Rick in Alexandria’?  Why, he’s the biggest baby-muncher of them all; a psychopathic killer with a soul so black and twisted, he makes Hitler look like an altar boy.  Because if Negan doesn’t do this - and his rank and file get the notion there’s another strong group surviving out there who doesn’t burn and bludgeon their own - then Negan runs the risk of mass defections from his ranks.

In any case - what other news source do the vast majority of Saviors have of outside activity, other than Negan?

So for Morales to be suddenly confronted with the undeniable knowledge that the evil, mean, nasty, mother-killing, father-raping, baby-eating monster “Rick from Alexandria” is actually “Officer Friendly”...?  

Yeah, THAT’S a gear change so hard I expect Morales’ mental ten-speed just threw its chain - and I expect it threw new personal quandaries into his brain-churn as well.  Has the Rick Morales used to know devolved into a soulless monster, or has Morales’ entire life with the Saviors (and whatever morally appalling acts Morales himself may have performed in defense of same) been predicated on a lie?  

Most people when faced with such contradictions generally try to rationalize a resolution which casts themselves and their actions in the best possible morally defensible light, so it’s not difficult to see why Morales tries to internally rationalize Rick as the Bad Guy.  In truth, I think the hardest slam on Morales’ self-rationalizations was two-fold; finding out Glenn (the nice, quiet, funny young pizza boy from Atlanta) had fallen under Negan’s bat, AND finding out THE WIDOW (an obvious propaganda boogeyman of Negan’s construct) was not some abstract baddie; she was Glenn’s wife, and was made a widow - made THE WIDOW, actually - by Negan personally.  So Morales struggles - but cannot let go of he rationalization which serves himself best.

And I expect every lower-caste-level of the Saviors would/will react identically, but without the added psychic baggage of knowing any of CDB personally - which makes holding onto the self-preserving “We are the good guys and they are the bad guys” rationalization just that much easier.

[peach]

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, Aaron! Every time I find someone to actually like on this show, they let me down. That whole death scene - the maudlin, swelling music, the declarations of undying love and managing to get out all the picture-perfect words just before expiry - god, it's so trite and has been done so many times in TV and movies that it now just engenders eyerolls, in me anyway.

LOL, I didn't even watch the talky parts.  FFW!  At the end, when Eric was a zombie shuffling away, Aaron did the big fake cry face with no tears, like terrible parents do on Dr Phil.
 

Quote

As for Rick passing him the baby - that's nothing. I seem to recall him handing Judith to Father Pee (who would probably pull a kangaroo move and dump the baby to save himself if pursued) to protect and just walking away.  "Oh, she'll be fine!" If Rick cared so little about his own child (or Shane's child, but whatever) I can't imagine him giving much of a rat's furry butt over someone else's squalling brat he got saddled with on his murder mission.

This is true.  But I still laughed out loud when it was like, "AAAAAHHHH, OMG, ERIC IS DEAAAAAD, IT'S MY FAULT, AAAAAAHHHH...Hey, can I have that baby?"  Uhhh....no?  But you're right, Rick was like, yep, here ya go.  Just lay it on the floor of the car, I guess.

[peach]

8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

 AND finding out THE WIDOW (an obvious propaganda boogeyman of Negan’s construct) was not some abstract baddie; she was Glenn’s wife, and was made a widow - made THE WIDOW, actually - by Negan personally.  So Morales struggles - but cannot let go of he rationalization which serves himself best.

I legit thought he was talking about Carol for a split second.  Then I was like, oh, MAGGIE is The Widow.  Which is kind of, as in totally, stupid.  Almost every person on the goddamn planet is a widow(er) now.  Maybe even for a second time.  Stooopid.

Agree with your larger point that Negan's probably doing what the Governor did when it came to describing Rick's crew.  Woodbury didn't know they were kidnapping and torturing innocent people in the basement, and that their friends might take issue with that. 

[ttgreif]

On 7/11/2017 at 9:47 PM, millennium said:

Was this week a rerun?   Of last week?

I'm waiting for the episode in which we learn that Maggie is gradually being possessed by the spirit of a Confederate soldier.   It's the only explanation for her ever-thickening accent.   Two weeks from now, we'll need subtitles.

Ha ha ... Brilliant!

[AngelaHunter]

21 minutes ago, Nashville said:

finding out Glenn (the nice, quiet, funny young pizza boy from Atlanta) had fallen under Negan’s bat,

Funny, nice young pizza boy he may be, but he was also right there, murdering Saviors in their beds (after some thought I decided they were all passed out drunk or stoned on weed and not comatose). The fact that he made anguished grimaces while doing it would make little difference to the outcome or to anyone outside of CDB.

 

9 minutes ago, peach said:

Agree with your larger point that Negan's probably doing what the Governor did when it came to describing Rick's crew.

Of course. Propaganda - demonizing the enemy - has always been a very important part of any warfare, even a silly, piddling little war like this one, where the "good guys" refuse to harm the diabolical enemy even when they have him in their sights. If any leader/dictator/maniacal asshole were painstakingly honest about their adversaries when addressing their people, no one would be willing to go to war.

I have to say that Negan's, "The WIDOW's alive - guns a-blazin'!" is one of the few moments or lines I actually enjoyed. I really can't believe I'm thinking so much about the amateurish dreck to which we're being subjected, both last season and this.

26 minutes ago, peach said:

  But I still laughed out loud when it was like, "AAAAAHHHH, OMG, ERIC IS DEAAAAAD, IT'S MY FAULT, AAAAAAHHHH...Hey, can I have that baby?" 

See, when you're laughing out loud at moments that are supposed to be wrenching and emotionally compelling, I'd say it's a definite sign that changing writers might not be the worst idea.

[Nashville]

21 minutes ago, peach said:

I legit thought he was talking about Carol for a split second. 

Funny thing, that: Negan - and by extension the rest of the Saviors - are almost certainly unaware of Carol having any connection to CDB:

• Carol’s participation in the Outpost Massacre was limited to perimeter defense; her contact with Saviors was confined to the Saviors’ Slaughterhouse Social Club - none of which survived to communicate her involvement back to the main Savior herd.
• Carol departed ASZ before CDB’s personal intro to Negan - so Negan is unaware of any association.
• Carol was waylaid by a group of Saviors shortly after leaving ASZ; none of THEM survived, though, so they’re a wash.

If Carol is on the Saviors’ radar to any extent, it would be at most as a minor Kingdom gun-toter and cannon fodder - which does open the door to some interesting possibilities....  ;>

[Dodginblue]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

See, when you're laughing out loud at moments that are supposed to be wrenching and emotionally compelling, I'd say it's a definite sign that changing writers might not be the worst idea.

I laughed when Rick handed the baby to Aaron because it seems he wasn't bright enough to scout around for some baby supplies before he carried her out of there.  Which presumably there were would have been some, the way the room was set up.  How soon we forget, Rick, grinding up acorns to feed to baby Judith.   Maybe Aaron has another jar of applesauce stashed away somewhere.

I also laughed when Aaron was standing there sobbing as he looked out at the walker across the field.   I guess it was Eric?  I couldn't really see well enough and then that other guy came up and said it wasn't him, but I didn't know if he meant it's not Eric because now he's a walker, meaning it was Eric but now it's not that Eric anymore.  But if it really wasn't Eric, then where's Eric?  Maybe he's alive somewhere? 

I also laughed when Daryl shot the kid hiding behind the tree because why would  you want to keep someone alive long enough to interrogate him some more.   No, they don't need to do that.  They've got this all figured out, like Ezekiel standing in the open field so happy because no one had been killed and only Carol savvy enough to say something about clearing the building.    Didn't he ever see Full Metal Jacket?      

[Mu Shu]

22 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Stop making fun of the pregnant lady, or I'll sick Coral on y'all.

I will hat take.  Quick quick. 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Dodginblue said:

I also laughed when Aaron was standing there sobbing as he looked out at the walker across the field.   I guess it was Eric?  I couldn't really see well enough and then that other guy came up and said it wasn't him, but I didn't know if he meant it's not Eric because now he's a walker, meaning it was Eric but now it's not that Eric anymore.

See, that's one of the many, many problems. There's this big scene with sobbing, torment and all that, and we don't know who the hell it is out there! I had no idea. Maybe it was Eric, but how would we know with that extreme long shot? Oh, where are the people who wrote Merle's turn and death with such un-sugary poignance I'm sure I'm not the only one who teared up a bit,  and no trite farewell speeches, last gasps or crystalline tears? That was good writing, but it's just a distant memory. To be fair, the guy who played Eric (sorry, no idea of the actor's name) is no Michael Rooker, but still, are the writers getting their ideas from "TV Tropes"?

We used to discuss this show but now it seems coming here to mock it is more fun than watching it.

[Dodginblue]

2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

See, that's one of the many, many problems. There's this big scene with sobbing, torment and all that, and we don't know who the hell it is out there! I had no idea. Maybe it was Eric, but how would we know with that extreme long shot? Oh, where are the people who wrote Merle's turn and death with such un-sugary poignance I'm sure I'm not the only one who teared up a bit,  and no trite farewell speeches, last gasps or crystalline tears? That was good writing, but it's just a distant memory. To be fair, the guy who played Eric (sorry, no idea of the actor's name) is no Michael Rooker, but still, are the writers getting their ideas from "TV Tropes"?

We used to discuss this show but now it seems coming here to mock it is more fun than watching it.

It's so hard to know if it was just a fail on the part of the director, thinking we'd be able to see who it was (or wasn't) and getting the distance wrong or maybe  we were supposed to have doubt about who was out there because that's going to mean something later, although why they would bother building anything around a marginal character like Eric I have no idea.  But then these are the people who thought bringing a marginal character like Morales back was worthwhile just to have him spout some meaningless bits of dialogue that did absolutely nothing to advance any kind of plot and then got rid of him, seemingly for good, with an arrow to his head. 

Or maybe  we were supposed to have doubt because it isn't going to mean anything ever, it's just one more dead end, in every sense.  

I think it must be hard to write a show about an unreal event, something that requires a certain suspension of disbelief going in but  still needs to be credible so the audience will buy in.  If the goal is adult level drama anyway.  That's what this show used to do really well most of the time. But It's run out of ways to do that I think and so it's resorted to a weird mix of  gun porn,  hammy pontificating and gimmicky physical action,  walkers rolling down a hill, people tied together trying to run through the woods, shooters popping up from the bushes, etc.  It's probably a much easier show to write now.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Despite Lori "Absent-minded Mother" and young Ewok!Carl "The Wanderer" Grimes, the early seasons of the show were the best (so far).  But then, I find that to be historically true for the vast majority of all the shows I've ever watched, so take that FWIW.

I'm willing to assume that was supposed to be Eric in the distance, considering the time spent watching Aaron's crying jag.  It did look like the walker had something tied around its midsection, like the coat Aaron used to try and tourniquet Eric's wounds with.

If that wasn't him, that implies that injured & weakened Eric was boosted away by a/some rogue Savior(s).

And as an aside;  while I know the unpredictability allows for more suspense and drama - as well as not painting the writers into pre-made corners - I hate the 'different reaction times between death and reanimation' rule they made canon.  Between slowly dying, reanimation and making it across that distance, that was a bit of time involved.  Also, 'he' wanders off to join the walker party off yonder, when there is noise being made by flesh!meals a bit of distance in the opposite direction?  That alone, just has me sitting here mentally conjuring a cartoon image of shaking a fist in madness at the show's lack of paying attention to details or its own canon.

Edited November 9, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[EllenC]

Morales' reappearance didn't lead me to deeply ponder how he and Rick have changed -- taking us down that road AGAIN, really? -- but it did lead me to mourn how much this show has changed. I didn't even watch the first 2 episodes this season and I don't feel like I missed anything but shooting, running around and dumb speeches. And some pointless, pretentious time line fiddling, I'm guessing, along with too many characters to keep up with or care much about.

It's all just a blur now and my attention wanders a lot.

There are so many scenes from the first few seasons that I can remember in vivid detail, still. Barely seems like the same show.

I'm not sure I'll ever get over the way they killed off Glenn, personally. I had really hoped they'd go against the comic book instead of sinking more directly into it. I still can't see how that was so key to driving some big story, but maybe it's because Maggie has always been my least favorite main character.

[AngelaHunter]

42 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

If the goal is adult level drama anyway.  That's what this show used to do really well most of the time. But It's run out of ways to do that I think and so it's resorted to a weird mix of  gun porn,  hammy pontificating and gimmicky physical action,  walkers rolling down a hill, people tied together trying to run through the woods, shooters popping up from the bushes, etc.  It's probably a much easier show to write now.

I agree, and it's become nonsensical in the extreme.  I remember being so impressed when CDB was eating dogs by the side of the road, after Rick had knocked a can of dog food from Carl's hands in the Se03 opener. Without a word, that spoke enormous volumes. I guess then it was assumed the audience had enough brains to link together those two events in an "Oh, wow!" moment.  Now? Rick would make a huge explanatory speech or recite an endless parable to justify it all and yadda yadda until all interest was gone. Everyone runs off at the mouth non-stop, even in the middle of battles and yet say nothing of the slightest import while we're stuck with Rick and Negan's never ending "Gotcha" pissing contest. Quel bore.

As for the chain gang Saviors, I couldn't help but wonder who just happened to be carrying around enough rope to tie all those people together?

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

If that wasn't him, that implies that injured & weakened Eric was boosted away by a/some rogue Savior(s).

Naw, Eric’s deader’n a doornail; he was gutshot, which means it was a foot race to see which would kill him first - the bleeding or the peritonitis.  If Eric was lucky, he bled out quick.

[oakville]

On 2017-11-07 at 2:20 PM, spiderpig said:

No wonder.  Has anything actually happened to advance the plot in the last couple of episodes?

I'm in it for Shiva, and waiting for Carol to kick some serious ass.

The ratings keep dropping even though there is more action now.

Has anyone on the show explained how Rick found so many weapons & bullets?

Did they raid an ammunitions factory?

[Lady Iris]

4 minutes ago, oakville said:

Has anyone on the show explained how Rick found so many weapons & bullets?

Same place they get their gas and hair products from.

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

Same place they get their gas and hair products from.

And where Negan gets his Crest White Strips.

[ghoulina]

And where Maggie finds razors and tweezers. 

[peach]

20 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

We used to discuss this show but now it seems coming here to mock it is more fun than watching it.

 

Beats working!  X-D

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Same place they get their gas and hair products from.

I guess that's where the women get their super-tight skin-hugging pants and low-cut tank tops too.

4 hours ago, oakville said:

Did they raid an ammunitions factory?

I think we're supposed to believe they got this enormous load of weapons that would arouse envy in the military from the seaside women and the the GPK? Am I right?

14 minutes ago, peach said:

Beats working!  X-D

I dunno... watching this is starting to seem like work. I watch it as though it's a particularly tedious and mindless job I must do to get paid.

[spiderpig]

20 minutes ago, peach said:

 

Beats working!  X-D

Who knew retirement could be this much fun?  I can savor the idiocies of the show, then come here and kvetch to my heart's content.

Note to showrunners:  if anything happens to Shiva you are dead to me.

[peach]

7 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I dunno... watching this is starting to seem like work. I watch it as though it's a particularly tedious and mindless job I must do to get paid.

LOL.  Watching it is tedious, I have to agree.  But mocking it is more fun than work.  Housework, at least.

[AngelaHunter]

18 minutes ago, peach said:

Watching it is tedious, I have to agree.  But mocking it is more fun than work.  Housework, at least.

Well, okay. If you're going to ask, "What's more tedious? Scrubbing the bathtub or watching TWD?" I guess the former although lately I'd have to really think about it. Yeah, I mentioned that the mockery is more fun than either. If not for this forum I would have stopped watching the second Rick gave that dopey, euphoric smile to the Garbage People who had just attacked and brutalized CDB.

[Anela]

On November 7, 2017 at 1:20 PM, peach said:

Isn't this mere WEEKS since Glenn and Abraham had their heads bashed into oblivion?  As usual, Maggie has virtually no credible emotional response to this (for which I blame the writers, I like Lauren).  My husband's torturers and killers would not be welcome "in some trailers with some guards" out back.

Right. Those men herded them like cattle, closed off any escape routes, then put them in a circle, terrorized them some more, before bashing two of their people's heads in. Their loved ones. And they enjoyed it. You don't give people like that, precious food and living space. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Anela

[iMonrey]

Quote

You, and I, and all of us know that - outside of that little matter of the surreptitious assassination of an entire Savior outpost - Rick isn’t head-bashing or face-burning or anything else heinous; we, after all, have the benefit of the omniscient camera to inform us.  By what token, though, do you think Morales - and by extension, the rest of the Saviors - DON’T think Rick is doing all this stuff?  Does anybody honestly think Negan is being painstakingly honest in his portrayal of CDB to the Savior rank and file?

On the other hand, there's no reason for the Savior rank-and-file to look upon Negan as just or fair. They've witnessed his tactics in strong-arming communities like the Hilltop, the Kingdom, and Alexandria. He doesn't exactly just bargain for peace. The Saviors also know the "workers" back at headquarters live in squalor and are punished with The Iron or with Lucille. The Saviors have seen this. There's no reason for them to think the Alexandrians are worse, just on Negan's say-so. If they've seen Negan in action just once, if they've seen the tactics he uses to bring other communities to heel, there's no reason for them to simply take his word that "oh, the other guys are worse." They've seen the perverse pleasure he gets from maiming and killing. There's no reason to trust him. Aside from his closest generals I don't know that anyone follows his orders out of anything other than sheer terror. 

So if Morales or any other low-level bureaucrat in the Savior organization hears that the Alexandrians have attacked a satellite outpost, I should think it would come as no surprise given what a reputation as ruthless thugs and bullies the Saviors have unabashedly established themselves as. Surely they don't consider themselves the good guys.

Worse still, Morales knew Rick once upon a time, and not that long ago according to the show's timeline. He knew he was a decent man. Was Negan ever a decent man? I don't care what benefits Morales has derived from being a Savior, if he's met Negan even once he's an idiot to take his word over Rick's. The man's so obviously crazy-pants.

"Uh, this guy who bashes people over the head and irons their faces off and laughs about it? He says you're the bad guy, so uh, I guess I believe him." Yeah right.

Edited November 10, 2017 by iMonrey

[peach]

I think Gregory, weasel that he is, gave the most honest answer about siding with Negan, and it's the same as Eugene's.  It's not about who is the monster, it's about who will probably win.   Negan, the actual monster, has demonstrated he will probably win, not the good guy, if that good guy is Rick Grimes (with his band of interchanging pacifists).  If Rick was the anywhere near the equivalent of Negan, this would be a much different story.  He would have taken control of Alexandria when he got there, and at this point might actually have a force to better fight Negan, but, no, he is the good guy, or wants to be, and half their people are dead now. 

It's not honorable to choose Negan's side, but at least ppl like Eugene admit it.  I guess a guy like Morales has to tell himself that Rick is the same so he (Morales) doesn't have to feel bad about it.   So maybe his long, improbable, speech was for himself.  And only Rick Grimes would let it mess with his head.

[Gobi]

One would think that the issue of prisoners would have come up in their battle planning. They were probably too busy working on their pep speeches.