S06.E04: Reversal

[WindofChange]

44 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I said absolutely nothing about Felicity having her own episode or Felicity bin general. I don't care about Oliver and Felicity as couple. Not sure where you read everything else from.

I got that from this comment...

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

It almost makes me wish Felicity never came aboard.

We see a LOT of Felicity's growth as a character through her relationship/interactions with Oliver - so take that relationship away then you take away a lot of her growth. So yeah for me that statement was telling... 

Edited November 3, 2017 by WindofChange

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, mtlchick said:

So Michael Emerson is the eeeeevil version of Harold Finch without a limp and different glasses, right? 

I got more of Ben Linus behind a keyboard vibe.

[lemotomato]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I got more of Ben Linus behind a keyboard vibe.

Yeah, I though ME was totally channeling Ben Linus at his most sinister. 

[Guest]

Michael Emerson just does that quietly menacing so well. I'm so excited for future scenes with him and Felicity. GIMME.

[JamieLynn832002]

I loved this episode but I did have one small problem, wouldn't the biostimulant belong to Palmer Tech? Curtis invented it in their R&D lab and they were trying to get it to market, I'm pretty sure even if PT never actually produced it, Helix can't just release it. I guess since Ray seems to be officially alive again, he might be able to help them get the rights.

[catrox14]

Wait, did I hear the Olicity theme mixed with action music at the end of the Oliver on comms scene?

[WindofChange]

I love this little move :')

https://twitter.com/smoakyfelicity/status/926301904463892480

[Chaser]

ME is such a good follow up to JS. I loved how Emerson played Cayden James. Almost detached from everyone but so in control of everything. I have to agree he got some decent acting out of KC. She was awful away from him (seriously that alley scene), but she pulled it way back around him. I wonder if she was intimidated. As for their 'partnership', the way that line was delivered I got the impression he was amused by the concept and wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her for his cause.

I really love Felicity and Alena. I want a lot of this friendship. 

I want to say my favorite Olicity scene was something deep like Olivers pep talk or romantic like the numerous callbacks or sexy like the make out but I got to be honest ..... it was Oliver busting up Felicity and Alena's meeting. The expression on his face when he took off the mask and her WTH with the gun. LOL

Oliver was just so good this episode. Fan fic brought to life. Speaking of, they are setting up an epic sex scene right?

2 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I loved this episode but I did have one small problem, wouldn't the biostimulant belong to Palmer Tech? Curtis invented it in their R&D lab and they were trying to get it to market, I'm pretty sure even if PT never actually produced it, Helix can't just release it. I guess since Ray seems to be officially alive again, he might be able to help them get the rights.

Yep. Felicity and Curtis would have no rights to that Tech. That bugged me a bit too. 

[Mellowyellow]

Arghhhhh!!!!! Arghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! OMG I LOVE OLICITY THIS WAS EVERYTHING I HAVE EVER WANTED THANK YOU SHOW *screams like a banshee*

This was Olicity 100000000 times better than S4!

I was sooooo in love with Oliver in this episode! He was so supportive and sweet. I thought SA did really well. I kinda got the vibe that he was internally freaking out but he was trying to be so calm and supportive for her sake. He was such a cutie in that scene on the floor in the bunker!

Really nice touch on William picking out Oliver's tie. Quick and effective way to tell us where William stands in all this.

You're all going to kick me off the forum for this but the wall make out scene, hot as it was (and it was soooooo hot, with her tugging on his tie and all, pure fanfic stuff there) was not my favourite scene! My favourite scene was when she plastered his face with kisses before she left the restaurant. *SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*

THAT'S MY HEAD CANON OLICITY PEEPS!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was so freaking cute!!!!!

LOVED that she pulled his phone out of his pocket! Classic old n married couple move!!!! Made my little heart squee so much!

I like that even thought they are together and happy, there is actually still a lot of external drama. Villains, frigging Slade, Felicity and her company, future Diggle drama. There is NO need for relationship drama! They both have plenty of other crap going on that they need to fit around their relationship! 

I am loving Diggle as GA and am on a high in regards to how well he did this week. I don't want him to fail! I'm looking forward to the rest of the show but a part of me just wants to stay in this space where Diggle is doing SOOOO well as GA! I want Diggle to win *sniffles*

Can someone clarify: Was Felicity fiddling around with Oliver's zipper on the couch? I saw a definite butt grab but she looked like she was fiddling with his fly. 

One last thing! I will NEVER be able to look at "dessert' in the same light again! *giggles like a teen boy*

16 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

Oliver was just so good this episode. Fan fic brought to life. Speaking of, they are setting up an epic sex scene right?

 

Are they? I was going to ask you guys! There were so many dessert mentions and failed attempts at "dessert". Is this going to be the season long gag until they make use of the 9pm timeslot?

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

I got that from this comment...

We see a LOT of Felicity's growth as a character through her relationship/interactions with Oliver - so take that relationship away then you take away a lot of her growth. So yeah for me that statement was telling... 

no what you got is me being so frustrated with the focus constantly being on their relationship (not from the show but from elsewhere) that I almost wish she wasn't even there. Of course, that won't stop ships. It's just frustration. I can't make my comments any clearer. I can't say I almost wish Oliver was never hear because he's the lead and Felicity was a added on role.

I like Felicity. I have no problems with Felicity being center stage. There hundreds of other ways to show anyone's growth without relationships. I don't even care about relationships in shows in general. I've always had a aversion to the fanbases shipping creates in general. It's just not why I watch anything. But, that's a discussion for another day. No matter what, I'm done now.

[SleepDeprived]

    

I kinda love it that the senior citizens of Starling City constantly get the juiciest/latest scoop on the city's fave celeb couple. My head canon is that these two lovely ladies are part of a group (The Senior Real Housewives of Starling City) that regularly get together for brunch to gossip about Mayor Oliver Queen and ex-PT CEO Felicity Smoak.

[Racj82]

I still need the show to explain to me how Curtis and his hair works. Whether it's in braids and then a fro from scene to scene or a ponytail that i don't think he could create with the fro he has. It's just makes no sense to me.

I bust out laughing Everytime Dinah poses. It's like she's in a constant photo op.

Man, I feel like Supergirl is somehow the worst of the DC shows now. Arrow and Flash are killing it. Legends remains goofy fun.

[WindofChange]

12 hours ago, Racj82 said:

no what you got is me being so frustrated with the focus constantly being on their relationship (not from the show but from elsewhere) that I almost wish she wasn't even there. Of course, that won't stop ships. It's just frustration. I can't make my comments any clearer. I can't say I almost wish Oliver was never hear because he's the lead and Felicity was a added on role.

I like Felicity. I have no problems with Felicity being center stage. There hundreds of other ways to show anyone's growth without relationships. I don't even care about relationships in shows in general. I've always had a aversion to the fanbases shipping creates in general. It's just not why I watch anything. But, that's a discussion for another day. No matter what, I'm done now.

After more than 600 days of them being separated and Olicity fans being really upset with the lack of content they've been getting for their most favorite aspect of the show can you blame them for being excited that they're finally finally getting what they've been waiting for? 

Yeah there are hundreds of other ways to show character growth and to give the Arrow writers credit they do use different avenues to create more depth with her character, but at the end of the day this show is about Oliver and most storylines will always go back to him or involve him in some way shape or form. 

Just like Barry is the main character of Flash that's why most of the supporting characters' arcs always goes back to him/is about him/involves him. 

Let's face it do you really think Felicity would get this much focus if she wasn't Oliver's love interest? Felicity didn't even get her own origin episode until she became a love interest in season 3.

No offense but there's a reason why Katie Cassidy had been gunning for the love interest role for so long before her character got killed off. And it's not because she thought Oliver was good for Laurel...And there's a reason why Iris stans pretty much hated anyone who was linked to Barry romantically (although Linda is now more well received)...

Edited November 3, 2017 by WindofChange

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, did I hear the Olicity theme mixed with action music at the end of the Oliver on comms scene?

I went back to watch it, and yes it was! Great catch!

At minute 2, when they banter about saying "I told you so"

Edited November 3, 2017 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

SA has really good comic timing! The mask reveal was hilarious, as was him confirming to Alena that he and Felicity were back on again. 

Right at the end of her hacking with Oliver being "Overwatch", when he was being a total sweetie pie to her, did they play a bit of the Olicity theme sped up? I am a bit tone deaf so can't trust my hearing but I thought it sounded like a speeded up version of the Olicity theme.

I loved the Delicity moment in this ep. Heart felt speeches are wonderful but I really appreciated how they presented the Delicity moment in a different way. Felicity freaking out at Diggle and then deflating while he gives her the look that says he understands it all *happy quiet squee*

LOVED how Diggle sent her home like the boss that he is! 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Emily looked really hot in this episode, the hair, makeup clothing all working for her.

Helix Dynamics interesting name, prefer Smoak Tech but, since it's a partnership guess that was off the table ?

Dinah needs to stop with the freaking poses, it's annoying.

Olicity scenes were too cute. I especially loved the role reversal, right down to Oliver manning the computers and leading Felicity through the building.

I know I'm in the minority but Rene cracks me up. The Hoss/Boss line and the question about Evil Laurel making out with victim #2 amused me.

Speaking of BS, after this episode I can see that redemption arc starting next week. I mean she only killed 4 people today, 9 in episode one, obviously her kill count is going down, means she's going light side. Plus she only got the tiniest enjoyment out of killing the poor security guard. Totally Team Arrow material.

Michael Emerson was Cayden James. Who could have predicted that?! Total shocker right there.

 

I think I am going to be good with Helix Dynamics.  Yes, I was attached to Smoak Tech but given it's supposed to be a partnership, having only her name would be hard to explain.  BUT Helix was ONLY Felicity's story.  No one else's so I feel it's kind of a secret shout out that the company is really Felicity's first and foremost.  

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That’s what I was thinking! He’s EVIL FINCH!

I’m so glad I wasn’t spoiled because I LITERALLY SQUEED! And screamed ??FINCH!!??

If they manage to bring in ??Reese?? he better NOT be Evuhl! Though I would love to see him and Oliver fight and see who would win!??

Ha!  I'm kind of shocked you didn't know since I swear it was the worst kept secret the show runners have ever tried to do with casting but I love your reaction. And I love imagining other unspoiled peeps doing the same.  And I love that ME is so absolutely Felicity's big bad to deal with.  Muhwahahahaha!  Respect!!!

6 hours ago, Soulfire said:

For science!

Oh, my.  That kiss keeps getting hotter.  And when Oliver first breaks it off and speaks, his voice is so low it really does sound like he has the Arrow modulator activated.  (Straight out of a 100 fanfics) 

And after much careful study.  ( I am such a diligent student)  I am convinced that what we saw in the hallway was the result of the elevator door opening and Oliver wanting to pin her to the nearest wall.  Dude looked like he was seriously fighting to remind himself they were still in a public space.  And oh, Felicity was so not interested in helping him regain his composure.  Just what did she do to him on the ride up?  

[Mellowyellow]

This ep confirms that Felicity is the wild one in the relationship!

Oliver is so gentlemanly! Is Oliver ever not a gentleman I wonder! The mysteries of Olicity continue! 

hehe I remember last season I was like "OMG is he hooking up with whatevr new version of BC?"

Now I'm like "Are they going to give us a sex scene? Is this all random or is it working towards a sex scene? Am I reading too much into missed desserts?"

See Arrow writers I am still very much in a tizzy! Just good tizzy instead of ragey tizzy!!!!!

[BunsenBurner]

5 hours ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I loved this episode but I did have one small problem, wouldn't the biostimulant belong to Palmer Tech? Curtis invented it in their R&D lab and they were trying to get it to market, I'm pretty sure even if PT never actually produced it, Helix can't just release it. I guess since Ray seems to be officially alive again, he might be able to help them get the rights.

I am not a lawyer but, Apple and most android manufacturers are in constant battles over their phones involving patents. Each court case is over something minute.

In this case the cost of the biostimulent is the prohibitive problem. I would think that FS and CH could change a few things and resubmit the patent and they could get away with it.

I think i put too much thought in this especially for this show. 

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

Didn't she tell Felicity that they didn't have to have oversight of a company to get the price to go down?

Not sure if this was answered but, I thought she said she would have a better shot of getting the price down without the Palmer Tech Board oversight.

I'm honestly quite surprised that Felicity didn't think of the chip all on her own but, I guess they needed/wanted the big reveal.

[BunsenBurner]

@Morrigan2575 I have wondered this since she said she was working on starting a new company. Of course they had to use it for plot. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by BunsenBurner
Can’t spell

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, quarks said:

I think it's time we started asking important questions, and by that, I mean, asking what the hell is going on with the sound department and the recording equipment? And I'm not talking about the usual mumbling here - multiple scenes tonight appeared to be using ADR, and in at least two cases, poorly looped ADR.  It's a specifically Arrow problem - the sound on the other Arrowverse shows was fine this week - and it's not confined to this episode, either. What's going on?

 The sound was definitely off in the club scene. What were the others? It also doesn't help that EBR in particular has gotten really mumbly the last season or so...

[Featherhat]

So unsurprisingly I really enjoyed this episode. ME playing CJ was the least surprising but most awesome casting this show has done in a long time and I think I'm really going to enjoy it going forward. Loved the Olicity scenes, they were communicating, who'd have thought that was possible last season? And crazy hot but we knew that already. I enjoyed random strangers and Alena asking if they were back together, not just the team. Nice to see Alena again as well KR is a good actress. 

This was even one of KC's best episodes in her run on the show, ME was able to pull a decent performance out of her in their scenes, although I'm still not a fan of her walk. 

3 hours ago, WindofChange said:

After more than 600 days of them being separated and Olicity fans being really upset with the lack of content they've been getting for their most favorite aspect of the show can you blame them for being excited that they're finally finally getting what they've been waiting for? 

Yeah there are hundreds of other ways to show character growth and to give the Arrow writers credit they do use different avenues to create more depth with her character, but at the end of the day this show is about Oliver and most storylines will always go back to him or involve him in some way shape or form. 

Just like Barry is the main character of Flash that's why most of the supporting characters' arcs always goes back to him/is about him/involves him. 

Let's face it do you really think Felicity would get this much focus if she wasn't Oliver's love interest? Felicity didn't even get her own origin episode until she became a love interest in season 3.

No offense but there's a reason why Katie Cassidy had been gunning for the love interest role for so long before her character got killed off. And it's not because she thought Oliver was good for Laurel...

Yep. Olicity pretended they were never even in a relationship let alone about to get married for 3/4ths of last season, it's not like one episode is too much to ask. And whilst it was a big part of last night's ep, it wasn't the sole focus of Felicity's storyline, it was as much about her guilt over Helix and Alena as anything else. 

It's 100% fine if it's someone's least favourite part of the show but romantic relationships were a big focus of the show from the beginning, See: Sister Swapping Clusterfuck/woman caught between two best friends, Diggle in love with his ex sister in law etc. If it wasn't Felicity involved with Oliver it would be Laurel or someone else getting focus. And it's not like it's going to be the only focus this season, the next two episodes are likely to be light on Felicity and heavy on Slade. Diggle and Dinah are having storylines and so is Curtis, it all works out, except for poor Thea stuck in a coma and no one cares. 

[Mellowyellow]

I love romantic relationships and relationships between people in general! Personally I feel like there is no point in watching anything without them. Except Hell's Kitchen. 

I am not one for Action!Masks!Fight!Brood!Scowl!Hide in cave all while being friendless and alone! I only care about all the action crap if the person has a human side, ie relationships that I'm invested in! I don't feel like one can truly tell an engaging story without the audience being invested in the relationships of the show! I feel like there is no point to plot if it doesn't have any human emotions behind it.

Not to mention the ONLY reason for the Cayden James storyline was because Felicity helped spring him so she could find Prometheus so she could save Oliver last season (because she loved him and wanted to carry his burden). 

But that's just where my mental state is at. I like to seeing people meet, develop a friendship/bond, fall in love, navigate through their relationship and grow together all while battling evil rather than just mindlessly beat people up each week. 

Bonus points if the actors also have scorching chemistry along the way to aid the story! 

[jay741982]

7 hours ago, WindofChange said:

Just look at where their hands are. Get some, fam! You deserve it :')

LOL we are such a Thirsty fandom and OH LOOK Felicity on top AGAIN! 

[popgoesculture]

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

 The sound was definitely off in the club scene. What were the others? It also doesn't help that EBR in particular has gotten really mumbly the last season or so...

I don't know what's up with the sound and/or EBR but there was one scene (with DR I think?) that I had to rewind multiple times, and I still don't know her last line. I gave up. 

 

Overall, I loved the episode -- such great Felicity and Oliver interactions, and I'm definitely intrigued by the villain this year. I'm just hopeful that it remains magic/meta free for the most part, and that they get over the incessant Canary screams. 

[Lady Calypso]

What a great episode. I've actually hated the first three episodes for various reasons and found them at least irritating on some level. This is the first episode where I went "huh, I love it." It wasn't just because of Olicity, although they are a big part. I thought everything they did in this episode worked well. We got less Dinah, which meant other characters were allowed to interact. Diggle and Felicity finally got to share some onscreen time together. It feels like it's been two seasons since we've last seen them talking to each other. Rene is back to his more likable self, as last episode, he was pretty annoying as the tattletale. KC did an excellent job as Black Siren. I guess when the director told her to go full evil, she really delivered. Plus, her scene in the parking garage? For me, that's the prettiest she's looked with her blonde hair. I personally have always preferred season 1 Laurel's hair, because she looks great as a brunette. 

Also, Michael Emerson killed it as Cayden James. I thought his entrance was very menacing and it worked really well for the tone of the episode. We are definitely leading into a Felicity is framed and arrested storyline, as evident by Cayden's plan to let Felicity leave the digital footprints, and I actually love that the audience already knows a little of Cayden's plan. It's a little information, but not all of it, so that's great. 

But yeah, the Olicity scenes also helped a lot. What I appreciate about their relationship, that did get ruined somewhat during season 4 and has only just started to recover around the end of last season, is that they can be mature adults, talk out their problems, and not do the typical hiding secrets that get the other pissed off and angsty. Yes, they did that in season 4, which is why it didn't work; it's just not who they are. So I love that we got them working together and showcasing their strengths here. I love Oliver on the comms. I think it's a perfect way to allow him to keep working with the team when needed, but also stay out of sight of the FBI. Though, again, nobody seems to recognize that Green Arrow is now black. 

Also, their making out scene was hot. 

Maybe some minor quibbles about the episode here and there, but overall, the best episode I've seen in a long time from this show.

[Guest]

A couple of things: 

I love that Felicity has an actual female friend now but part of me still thinks that Alena is some kind of trap/plant? IDK why. I guess it's just the "coincidence" of her turning up needing Felicity's help at the same time Cayden James sets her up. I think I need to see more Alena scenes just to be sure!

As for Felicity's company name, anyone else feel like it won't stick? I can't help but feel like the Helix name will be tarnished somehow (when she inevitably gets arrested) and they'll end up changing it. IDK. It just didn't feel like a permanent name to me.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think it's permanent, either. I think using Helix is just a means to tie her into whatever it is that Cayden James has planned for her.

[insomniadreams88]

Notes from my rewatch:

Still amused that Oliver wore a gas mask while following Felicity. A gas mask.

At one point during the fight in Helix, it looks like BS is just standing there with her back to the fight. I'm assuming she's facing off with someone off-screen, but it's a bad shot. 

Also, I'm amused that we got BS vs. GA twice in this episode, but with Diggle as GA. 

BS' "I had a family once" to the guard she killed. Maybe it's because of the context and the fact that she doesn't care that she's taking a father's life, but I very briefly wondered if she killed her family (or just didn't care if they were killed) on her Earth. I don't think it's an actual possibility - I can't see them doing that - but it didn't help that Cayden then remarked that she didn't have to kill the guy. 

As much as I want to trust Alena, part of me doesn't since Cayden's setting Felicity up and Alena's now putting herself in a place - working for the start-up - that puts her by Felicity's side, possibly just in time for Cayden to likely frame Felicity.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think it's permanent, either. I think using Helix is just a means to tie her into whatever it is that Cayden James has planned for her.

Yeah, that's what I think, too. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we get Queen Inc at some point tbh. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

[KillahBee007]

First time poster, long time lurker. I had to comment on this episode. I haven’t actively disliked the first few episodes of this season but they were extremely dull to me. There was nothing for me to engage with. I don’t care about the kid or the kid SL. However, I can say that last week’s episode and this one is a step in the right direction.  Last night’s episode gave me Olicity in all ways. Supportive Oliver. Felicity being her own person, and deciding on what tech to focus on.  Sexy Olicity. Hell, even their argument made sense.  See, writers of Arrow, it’s possible to write them without some stupid contrived drama. Imagine. 

Michael Emerson is already a great addition and I can’t wait to see what he does next. I hope that whatever tech Felicity works on can be used to help John once his secret is out. 

All in all, good episode and I am for once in a long time, looking forward to an Arrow episode. 

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 BS' "I had a family once" to the guard she killed. Maybe it's because of the context and the fact that she doesn't care that she's taking a father's life, but I very briefly wondered if she killed her family (or just didn't care if they were killed) on her Earth. I don't think it's an actual possibility - I can't see them doing that - but it didn't help that Cayden then remarked that she didn't have to kill the guy. 

I wouldn't be shocked if she did kill them. In fact it seems perfectly in character (what little we've seen) for BS to kill her family for fun.

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I am not a lawyer but, Apple and most android manufacturers are in constant battles over their phones involving patents. Each court case is over something minute.

In this case the cost of the biostimulent is the prohibitive problem. I would think that FS and CH could change a few things and resubmit the patent and they could get away with it.

I've had the misfortune to work on a few patent cases, both in private practice and as a law clerk in federal court, and yes, you can literally change one aspect of a product and then claim a patent for a new invention or a new innovation on a previous patent, depending on the nature of the product. The minutiae of patent infringement cases is amazing (and annoying). So I can buy Felicity and Curtis's new venture. What I still can't buy is that Alena had to give them the idea, but whatever. The rest of the episode was so good that I'll handwave anything today, LOL.

I forgot to mention it last night, but I love that William helped Oliver pick his tie and wanted to come with him on the date. It's really sweet that he actively wanted to spend time with Oliver and Felicity, and I find myself really looking forward to the next time we see the three of them together. I never would have imagined that weeks ago.

[arjumand]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

3. I think it's time we started asking important questions, and by that, I mean, asking what the hell is going on with the sound department and the recording equipment? And I'm not talking about the usual mumbling here - multiple scenes tonight appeared to be using ADR, and in at least two cases, poorly looped ADR.  It's a specifically Arrow problem - the sound on the other Arrowverse shows was fine this week - and it's not confined to this episode, either. What's going on?

I've been saying this from the beginning - as soon as I started the episode, had the volume on full blast and couldn't understand half of the previouslies. I'm getting used to rolling my eyes, and plugging in external speakers / headphones. I didn't notice the poorly looped ADR as much as previous episodes, but I think I was distracted by the sheer pain of the "Cayden James is destroying the internet!!" dumbness.

Rest of ep - I enjoyed it. It's actually the first time I've been slightly ok with Oliver not being GA (temporarily, mind). I enjoyed the role reversal more than I thought I would, though I didn't enjoy the cock-blocking, lol!

I mean, Slade Wilson? Slade Wilson makes you drop everything and race off. Slade Wilson snaps his fingers, and Oliver Queen, the man whose mother Slade Wilson murdered, in front of him, is there.

Ok, I guess.

I also was annoyed by the amount of times Dinah didn't know something. I know we need someone for exposition dumps, but the same person more than once in the same episode? Kind of makes her look stupid.

And as has been said above, BS!Laurel (it works on two levels!) needs to stop walking like she's on a (very slow) catwalk. Just stop it, ffs.

Still, it was a good episode, Michael Emerson is nicely menacing, and no William (hooray! Sorry, don't care about him). About time, show.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ha!  I'm kind of shocked you didn't know since I swear it was the worst kept secret the show runners have ever tried to do with casting but I love your reaction. And I love imagining other unspoiled peeps doing the same.  And I love that ME is so absolutely Felicity's big bad to deal with.  Muhwahahahaha!  Respect!!!

I really didn't! You know I don't read spoilers for this show! And since I have a hate-hate relationship with TPTB on all the shows, I don't read what they have to say, so I will give them this. Because I FUCKING LOVE Michael Emerson. From his murdery-stalking-family annihilator--to-computer savante days (The Practice, Law & Order: CI, SVU, Person of Interest). He voiced the Joker in...Batman: The Dark Night Returns (Parts I and II). Never watched Lost, so can't speak to his Linus. THIS is a Villain I can get behind!

And because this show is as subtle as a sledgehammer, I will laugh my ass off if I hear "The Machine" or even "Reese" uttered by Clayden James.

You know, or see this guy...

Edited November 3, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[WindofChange]

MORE PARALLELS! I love the first and last one so much :')

https://chloesdecker.tumblr.com/post/167079696410/oliver-and-felicity-604-parallels

[tv echo]

I loved this episode. Michael Emerson's Cayden James is one scary guy! What a fantastic actor. Unfortunately, his nuanced evil acting just highlighted how two-dimensional evil Black Siren has become. Incidentally, the other guy (Cayden's other minion using the fingerprints to open the vault) has no name according to the IMDb page for this episode (though WM said in a recent interview that they call him "Boots"), but he's played by an American actor named Tobias Jelinek.  This is his first Arrow appearance.

When Black Siren was given that pic of her second victim, for a moment I thought it was a pic of a little girl, and I thought, 'oh no, that's going to be her daughter and that's why she's obeying Cayden James.' Fortunately, no. Though when she said, "I once had a family too," right before killing that guard, I did think, 'oh no, redemption arc.'

I loved the focus on Felicity in this episode and the role reversal between her and Oliver. Ditto to everyone's comments about that. However, it still makes no sense that Felicity wears no mask or disguise when she's out in the field with the team.

I like Diggle being in charge and using some of his military training, although I still miss Oliver being the Green Arrow. I'm starting to warm up to Rene, but am still not sure about Curtis and Dinah. At least, this episode acknowledged that Curtis couldn't do everything that Felicity can do.

I like Alena. I hope that she ends up working for Felicity's startup company.  I could also kinda ship her with Rene - I know, can you imagine? Another case of opposites attracting. But I'd like to see one interaction between them first. I really hope that Alena doesn't turn out to be a plant for Cayden James. I also had this fleeting thought that she could be Cayden's daughter. Kacey Rohl and Michael Emerson look like they could be related. Even if Alena is not a plant, she could still be his daughter, which would set up a nice father-daughter conflict (to parallel another 'father-daughter type' conflict between Lance and Black Siren on the show).

  

When Felicity and Alena talked about "Helix Dynamics," I immediately thought that that would be a way for the show to introduce a lot of new, young characters, and to test out a possible spin-off.

Ending Olicity scene - Is that your cell phone or are you just happy to see me? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Edited November 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

I don't fully trust Alena. I think they could easily set it up as her still being on Caydens side and her encouraging Felicity to name the company Helix as a way to further help incriminate her. 

[Guest]

Re-watch thoughts:

Rene's one liners actually made me smile. "Thank god we saved the internet!" 

I LOVED Oliver in this episode. It feels so good to really love him again, especially when I spent the majority of last season on Team Prometheus. LOL. It's just so nice to see his growth as a character after all these years and not be frustrated at him regressing for plot reasons. About damn time! 

Cayden said he had a partnership with BS but it didn't really come across that way to me. It feels like she's in his debt because he saved her on the island and now she has to do his dirty work. Weird. Also not really sure why she's even hanging around tbh. 

We actually had two (gasp!) Delicity scenes - one on the phone and one in the bunker - and I loved how Diggle just let Felicity snap and vent at him because he knew she needed to. Give me more of those two please. 

[Writing Wrongs]

Why does every episode thread descend into an Olicity thread? I'm trying to read people's comments and it's all effing gifs.

[Featherhat]

5 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why does every episode thread descend into an Olicity thread? I'm trying to read people's comments and it's all effing gifs.

Well they are quite popular around here and it was a big episode for them, maybe people can put further gifs in character or relationship threads? Though I don't think it's that bad at the moment. 

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I don't fully trust Alena. I think they could easily set it up as her still being on Caydens side and her encouraging Felicity to name the company Helix as a way to further help incriminate her. 

Possibly, I can see them keeping her at least good-gray for now and keeping being on CJs side for later on if necessary. KR can play that kind of character. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Notes from my rewatch:

Still amused that Oliver wore a gas mask while following Felicity. A gas mask.

At one point during the fight in Helix, it looks like BS is just standing there with her back to the fight. I'm assuming she's facing off with someone off-screen, but it's a bad shot. 

Also, I'm amused that we got BS vs. GA twice in this episode, but with Diggle as GA. 

BS' "I had a family once" to the guard she killed. Maybe it's because of the context and the fact that she doesn't care that she's taking a father's life, but I very briefly wondered if she killed her family (or just didn't care if they were killed) on her Earth. I don't think it's an actual possibility - I can't see them doing that - but it didn't help that Cayden then remarked that she didn't have to kill the guy. 

As much as I want to trust Alena, part of me doesn't since Cayden's setting Felicity up and Alena's now putting herself in a place - working for the start-up - that puts her by Felicity's side, possibly just in time for Cayden to likely frame Felicity.

 

I don't think there's anything to worry about Alena's loyalties.  When they talked about her coming to work for her in the future they put it in the context of in a year or two so Season 7 or beyond (also a back up if the absolute worst happened and EBR for some reason chose not to renew her contract)  Alena has always seemed suspicious because of her involvement in Helix which we were told again and again was sketchy but it turned out Helix was exactly what Felicity thought it was until Cayden James came back apparently now either changed or at least now willing to show his more evil cards.  But Alena has always been what she was on paper.  A hacktivist idealist that looks up to Felicity.  She had misplaced faith in James but even when they booted Felicity from Helix, they parted with Alena being so grateful to have met her idol.  So I think we've moved past any nefarious intents on her part.  

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Yeah, that's what I think, too. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we get Queen Inc at some point tbh. 

I'd be up for that.  Or maybe at some point Curtis will leave to do something on his own and Felicity will rename it then Smaok Tech.  The big main business at the center of this show evolves as much as anything else.  It's a real possibility.  

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I really didn't! You know I don't read spoilers for this show! And since I have a hate-hate relationship with TPTB on all the shows, I don't read what they have to say, so I will give them this. Because I FUCKING LOVE Michael Emerson. From his murdery-stalking-family annihilator--to-computer savante days (The Practice, Law & Order: CI, SVU, Person of Interest). He voiced the Joker in...Batman: The Dark Night Returns (Parts I and II). Never watched Lost, so can't speak to his Linus. THIS is a Villain I can get behind!

And because this show is as subtle as a sledgehammer, I will laugh my ass off if I hear "The Machine" or even "Reese" uttered by Clayden James.

You know, or see this guy...

4

When ME  was on Lost, he has a similar story as EBR, not as dramatic, he wasn't a day player but his part was supposed to be much, much smaller and instead he became the show's big bad really.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I really hope that Alena doesn't turn out to be a plant for Cayden James. I also had this fleeting thought that she could be Cayden's daughter. Kacey Rohl and Michael Emerson look like they could be related. Even if Alena is not a plant, she could still be his daughter, which would set up a nice father-daughter conflict (to parallel another father-daughter type conflict between Lance and Black Siren on the show).

With the way Alena acted around/about Cayden James in s5, I thought he might've been her father. She just seemed very invested in him as a person, not just because he was the brains behind Helix. 

I'm not sure that's accurate this season but it also wouldn't surprise me if it's a twist somehow? They did say this season is about family and I could see that being another family dynamic they might play into at some point. 

[BkWurm1]

Oh, this episode!  So much goodness. 

Did a rewatch (how could I not).  These are some thoughts I had while I was watching it again.  First, all things Olicity related:  

  I adore when Felicity has to leave Oliver at the restaurant that she doesn’t just kiss him goodbye but shower him in kisses.  And she does this beard rubbing thing throughout the whole episode like she’s petting him that just gets to me.  It’s so lovely. 

Oliver subtly threatening Alena just by confirming he and Felicity are back together.  What a great little moment added to the script. .

I adore when Oliver comes after Felicity and thinks he’s saving her and I adore that Felicity was mad at him both for misreading the situation and because she was trying to look out for him.  I’m so happy that they let them fight when it naturally should occur.  I had this slight concern that now that they are back together that the show could try to turn her into Iris and always walk on eggshells around his ego.  Because I want Felicity to still be one of the few people that is not intimidated by Oliver. I appreciate that it goes both ways as well, that he was allowed to be reasonably upset for his own reasons as well.  And I like it even more that they resolve their issues and Oliver explained his feelings and Felicity listened and no one stewed and they don't hold grudges. They function so well together, even in their moments of dysfunction. 

 

Something I LOVED in this episode is how much they quietly (and not so quietly) reinforced just how brilliant Felicity is at what she does.  Like FINALLY we have Curtis helping her but Felicity actually the one figuring out the key final pieces.  Like when Curtis said that he’d done everything just like she told him, thus softening the beach and then all it took her was a few seconds and boom, she was in.  Or like the location of the secret internet vault (huh?) that per Cutis is so classified that they don’t even have a word for how classified it is to which Felicity says yeah, she has a hack running that will give them the location.  Felicity Smoak, doing the impossible. 

And Oliver’s pep talk at the loft, that whole scene was beautiful.  EBR did a great job bringing all the subtle conflicting emotions to the surface.  And SA was on his A game as well.  His support for her based on what she’d taught him and bringing it full circle brought the feels.  You could feel the weight of their history.  Of their shared experiences.  There was nothing rushed or cheap or cheesy about that scene.  It felt earned. 

And I love how much he loves how smart she is.  He gets a perfectly gooey look on his face after he says “Sooo smart”.  And then Curtis in an episode where he wasn’t annoying on screen but SUPER annoying offscreen via all his texts pulls her away and the huge regret she shows that she’s leaving him.  And just when I think Oliver can’t be any more supportive, he tells her how proud he is of the very work that keeps dragging her away.  Sigh.  Melt.  Three kisses for Mr. Queen AND the beard rub. 

How is it that EBR and SA can have that much chemistry over coms??  So cute and sweet and loved his absolute faith and how happy he was that he finally found a way to help as well as her saying he always does.  Aww! 

Turned out I was pretty much just listing every Olicity moment, lol.  I already commented upthread on the final make out scene (so hot that Oliver is literally sweating) so just another comment about them sitting together in the bunker holding hands.  That just kills me dead. And then they leave together holding hands as well.  :D 

I so love this episode and especially EBR and SA for adding in all the little extra things that make what the writers gave 10 times even more wonderful.  

[Guest]

Is it just me or are they really making Curtis utterly useless in the field? I just don't see the point of him out there throwing the t-spheres around. It has no impact. I don't see his stunts and think "Wow, that was so cool!" He's just kind of there. 

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Is it just me or are they really making Curtis utterly useless in the field? I just don't see the point of him out there throwing the t-spheres around. It has no impact. I don't see his stunts and think "Wow, that was so cool!" He's just kind of there. 

Yeah, I feel like he's unnecessary? I can't think of one fight where I thought, "Wow, they would have lost/that would have been so much harder without Curtis/his t-spheres." 

[Featherhat]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Is it just me or are they really making Curtis utterly useless in the field? I just don't see the point of him out there throwing the t-spheres around. It has no impact. I don't see his stunts and think "Wow, that was so cool!" He's just kind of there. 

He's never had much business being out in the field, just his name and I can't take his mask seriously at all, not to mention pouting about having to stay in the bunker this episode and run comms. But if he returns to the bunker fulltime then it's going to mean Felicity sharing more of her screetime with him than she already does. 

[WindofChange]

OK ONE MORE PARALLEL/CALLBACK AND I PROMISE I'M DONE:

http://westallenolicitygifs.tumblr.com/post/167085672122

Edited November 3, 2017 by WindofChange

[WindofChange]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, I feel like he's unnecessary? I can't think of one fight where I thought, "Wow, they would have lost/that would have been so much harder without Curtis/his t-spheres." 

I think the T-Spheres and the Canary Cry are just short of being deux ex machinas. It's so convenient and when they don't use it the audience is left to wonder WHY they don't which is a terrible position to be in. It's basically a lose-lose. Not only that but both cost money in terms of CGI (which could be EASILY spent on other things like sets or giving the actors soda during breaks). 

I really don't get why the writers feel like they need to add these aspects into the show especially considering said aspects don't suit the show at all. If this they wanted a show more grounded take away the Canary Cry, if they want to show vigilantes working hard in the field and actually fighting take away the T-Spheres. 

I honestly can't see ONE good reason why they should keep them on the show. And no, the canary cry being a character trait from the comics isn't a good reason.