Season 1 - 3 Discussion

[CaptainCranky]

I really wanted to like this show as I'm a huge Kevin Costner fan. But this show has too many characters and story lines. I'm sure in the future it will come together.

What did the old man with his Nam cap on shooting the buffalo have to do with anything ?

As for the development is the developer dammed up the river, then Dutton's have no water which means they are downstream. But when they blew what looked like a mountain how did that dry up the river as that would have been upstream and not Dutton land.

Maybe if I watched this initial episode several times I might get into it but I think reading the comments on this forum will save me a lot of time.

I just watched the first 15 minutes of the second show and as I thought this would strain the bounds of things I can comprehend so I'll follow the show on this forum.

Edited July 4, 2018 by CaptainCranky

[CaptainCranky]

On 6/21/2018 at 2:36 PM, roughing it said:

I must disagree.  I like almost all of Kevin's roles and the movies he's been in.  One of my favorite lines was Bull Durham "I like long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last all night..."  sigh....

For the Love of the Game is another great KC movie.

[NeenerNeener]

I was having a hard time telling the dark-haired, bearded guys apart, so it's probably just as well that one of them died in this episode. Just to be clear, the one the hard-ass daughter boinked was NOT her brother, right? You can never be sure when some obscure network show might decide to go all Game of Thrones just for the shock value.

 I guess I've heard Ashokan Farewell enough now to recognize it within a bar or two.

Edited July 4, 2018 by NeenerNeener

[Dowel Jones]

Tip (the daughter's boinkee) is a hired hand, not of the family.  He does more than that in the upcoming episode.

Dutton's henchmen supposedly changed the course of the river, maybe over to Dutton land, by dynamiting the mountain upstream.  That's rather farfetched, but, then again, so is the entire damming scenario, as both owners have property rights.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

6 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I was having a hard time telling the dark-haired, bearded guys apart, so it's probably just as well that one of them died in this episode. Just to be clear, the one the hard-ass daughter boinked was NOT her brother, right? You can never be sure when some obscure network show might decide to go all Game of Thrones just for the shock value.

I was sad to see Dave Annabel go. Dave!!!  What are you going to be doing now?  Come back.

I could not even tell that was Cole Hauser for the longest time.  I had to look it up. It doesn't help they don't have the same character names listed as what they were saying on-screen on wikipedia or IMDb.  Well, when I looked him up I saw that he is still with that girl from Sweet Valley High.  LOL.  

[CaptainCranky]

I watched the first 15 minutes and said I quit. I can spend 10-15 minutes on here reading comments, find out about the absurd story lines and characters and save the time doing something useful like watching my grass grow.

[sabretooth]

Quote

Doesn't it also look like she's wearing a really bad wig?

Yes! It's almost as bad as Oliver Queen's Island Wig from Arrow. 

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, CaptainCranky said:

I watched the first 15 minutes and said I quit. I can spend 10-15 minutes on here reading comments, find out about the absurd story lines and characters and save the time doing something useful like watching my grass grow.

I hear ya.  Watching this is like watching paint dry.  I'll just read the comments.

[slasherboy]

On 7/2/2018 at 9:19 PM, mledawn said:

I had no problem with the sex scene. It wasn't a love scene, and hard sex against a wall/on a table is sometimes just what hits the spot (ha).
Now, if they're ALL like that, it's a different story.

Kept my interest until that final dying quiver!

 

16 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Tip (the daughter's boinkee) is a hired hand

Boinkee!  My favorite new word!  Excuse me, but are  you the boinker or the boinkee?  Hee

[J-Man]

I'm wondering if the Dutton siblings all came from the same mother, or if there were multiple wives (none of whom appears to be in the picture any longer.) I guess it was alluded to that at least one is deceased -- when Beth said something about the women in the family not being long-lived. But maybe that was a reference to another sibling or siblings who passed away some time in the past? 

[Dowel Jones]

12 minutes ago, J-Man said:

alluded to that at least one is deceased

Ep. 2 has the old man visiting Evelyn's grave.  According to credits, Gretchen Mol plays her so we will see her on down the line.

[Former Nun]

10 hours ago, J-Man said:

I'm wondering if the Dutton siblings all came from the same mother, or if there were multiple wives (none of whom appears to be in the picture any longer.)

Another "Bonanza" similarity.

[Pallas]

The Duttons deal with a painful anniversary.

[Haleth]

When I saw the advertising for this show I thought Kelly Reilly would be playing Costner's latest wife.  She's too old to be a daughter.

[absolutelyido]

Of the 3 Dutton children, Jamie appears to be the only one who bathes (the dirty horse trough doesn't count). Beth continues to work my last nerve, but perhaps if she washed and combed her hair it would help. I might have missed it because I have trouble paying attention, but does Kayce have any kind of job?

[rocketinu]

Kayce breaks horses for a living.  Beth has to be one of the most unlikeable, irritating characters ever.  I loved it when her brother finally punched her out. As the guy in the bar said as he saw her damaged face - "thinking you probably deserved it".  Also mom who died was pretty nasty too. No big loss there.

Edited July 12, 2018 by rocketinu

[SnarkAttack]

I guess we found out why Beth is so reckless and nasty, her mother didn't like her.  Beth had mentioned Kayce being the favorite, but wow...

Kayce sure shoots a lot of people.  

[roughing it]

losing interest in this show....

[CaptainCranky]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

losing interest in this show....

I quit after the first 10 minutes of the second show and plan to keep up by reading the comments.

[rcc]

Anybody know who played the young John Dutton?

[Sandy60]

I want to like this show, but I’m quickly losing interest. Too dark, only character I like is Kayce and he’s killed someone each episode! Who was the young woman that shot herself? I thought it was the girl Kayce saved but she wasn’t at the same house.

[Dowel Jones]

On 7/11/2018 at 5:09 AM, Haleth said:

When I saw the advertising for this show I thought Kelly Reilly would be playing Costner's latest wife.  She's too old to be a daughter.

I don't know how exactly they're casting the two of them on the show, but in real life there's 22 years separation between him and her.

[NeenerNeener]

41 minutes ago, Sandy60 said:

Who was the young woman that shot herself? I thought it was the girl Kayce saved but she wasn’t at the same house.

So I'm not the only one who doesn't know who that was. I hope it wasn't Kayce's wife.

[SnarkAttack]

2 hours ago, rcc said:

Anybody know who played the young John Dutton?

Josh Lucas.

[Mnemosyne]

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

So I'm not the only one who doesn't know who that was. I hope it wasn't Kayce's wife.

It wasn't Kayce's wife. She walked in at the end of the scene and looked sad, right before Kayce went out the front door and found the group of kids there.

Kayce does seem to be a shoot-first-ask-questions-later type of fellow.

That was Josh Lucas playing young John. Very little screen time, but I thought he had Costner's mannerisms down well. Gretchen Mol was great as Evelyn as well.

[NeenerNeener]

I'm rewatching the ending now on the Paramount app because my recording cut off right as the guys went into the house. From the family pictures they showed, was she the wife of the guy Kayce shot at the end of the first episode? 

[meira.hand]

8 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

Kayce being the favorite, but wow...

Kayce sure shoots a lot of people.  

Wasn't he the son, in the flash back scene with his father, who refused to shoot the dear and said you should not kill someone even if it save many others?

[J-Man]

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

I'm rewatching the ending now on the Paramount app because my recording cut off right as the guys went into the house. From the family pictures they showed, was she the wife of the guy Kayce shot at the end of the first episode? 

I think so, but I'm not positive. From reading the credits, I gather there are three families: Kayce and his wife (Monica), then two families with the surnames "Stands Alone" and "Long."  I think the old Indian guy in the first episode was Felix Long, and he's Monica's grandfather; Monica's brother, Robert Long, was the one Kayce shot in Episode 1.  He appears to be married to Samantha Long (who is the one I'm assuming killed herself.) And I guess the other family is another of Monica's and Robert's siblings (Verda Stands Alone) and her husband is Sam Stands Alone (the skinny Indian with Kayce at the end.) It appears that all three families have children, and so at least one set of them (I think there are three boys) are now orphans.

This could all be wrong, but it's the best I can do based on the credits.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So many checks TPTB can never cash.

I am most bitter that the one thing they were getting right was the "code."  Well, Beth's assertion that a man would have walked away is just not so.  She refused to give her brother an out.  He had to go THROUGH her.  The only way to do it was to lay hands on her.  Perhaps not a roundhouse - but a hand nonetheless.

The best scene for me was in the prison where the two men very simply laid out their cards.  The Chief was making a ton of sense - until he spoke of buying out the entire area.  There's the small matter of the encroaching developments, eh?   Those would only increase.  The tribe may find a way to regain the land through political maneuvering, but no way would they be able to outbid the world.  The Duttonname could well go away in either event.  However...what was a pretty great (epic?) meeting of these willful and powerful men was reduced by illogic.  

By the bye - what is the chance that the Chief's arrest and the subsequent returning of the cattle would not be on every possible media outlet nonstop?  It's a helluva story and the good guys and bad guys would not be obvious.   Catnip for the insatiable information and circuses monster society we've become.

Why was the girl kidnapped by the drug thugs?  Was she a user?  If the point of being on The Rez was to avoid detection, why would they take on someone who would be missed and for whom there would be an all-out hunt?

I so wanted to love this series.  I don't see how it rise out of the shlock it's now become.

I will say that the mother's last words to Beth were among the coldest I've ever heard.  Wow.  Normally, I'd be all about the fact they dared go there.  In this series?  Just another piece for shock value.

[roughing it]

We watched a second time last night because the first time I wasn't really paying attention and husband wanted to see Kelly Reilly naked again.  Which, watching Beth stomp out to the horse trough, we get a glimpse of her ass with the robe falling away; in the next shot her robe is pulled closed at the front.  How did that happen with both of her hands full?  Poor editing.

And, btw, maybe I haven't watched much Jerry Springer, but who would ever stomp around naked without a care in the world, with their brothers and others around?  Unbelievable.  Beth is a mess, yet Daddy wants her to run for a council seat?  

[Dowel Jones]

19 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

If the point of being on The Rez was to avoid detection, why would they take on someone who would be missed and for whom there would be an all-out hunt?

Not to mention parking 50' off the side of the road in plain sight.

7 hours ago, roughing it said:

And, btw, maybe I haven't watched much Jerry Springer, but who would ever stomp around naked without a care in the world, with their brothers and others around?

Someone who was emotionally abused by her mother, and then spent her entire life being reminded that "you killed your mother" by the rest of the family.  She is a mess, and she's going to run for the council seat. Talk about a train wreck, given the current election strategies.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

This show needs to slow down on all the killing and dying.  They are speeding so many things up the viewers are left confused.  Kayce just happens to be driving by both a meth explosion AND a van with meth being made in it?  What the fuck is going on here?   Can Beth be any more dramatic?  Seriously..........she obviously had it together at some point when she was a a career woman and she is just looney tunes when she gets back to the ranch.  They need to seriously pace out all the dramatics. It's 3 episodes in and completely ridiculous. I'm so disappointed.  The ranch hands are just thugs that go around killing people?  The can execute a whole plan to have Rainwater go to jail?  

[IDreamofJoaquin]

What was with the cremated body and the gravestone?  Fuck this show.

[lazylou]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:38 PM, NeenerNeener said:

I'm rewatching the ending now on the Paramount app because my recording cut off right as the guys went into the house. From the family pictures they showed, was she the wife of the guy Kayce shot at the end of the first episode? 

I was hoping someone could tell me definitively who the woman was.  I do think it was the wife of the man Kayce shot during the cattle retrieval event (and why did they do that...cattle theft is a major crime which could have been settled the way it was finally settled to begin with, since the fence had clearly been cut and the cattle marked)...though then two important characters would still be alive and Kayce would not have killed his brother-in-law.)  The man who was shot was Kayce's wife's brother and (I think) the husband of the suicide and the father of all those kids. (Or, maybe it was his mother.)  I think Kayce is now going to be responsible for that whole big family of kids.  Maybe this will force him to go hat in hand to his father and get a job on the ranch, a situation his wife might accept as being preferable to his re-joining the Army.  Or is it the Marines?

I do not know why I am watching this show except that it is about Montana, where I grew up and where I still have friends and relatives.  Montana water law is ... well, I do think it was probably illegal for Dutton to have changed the flow of the river.  Now suddenly he has just changed the course of a "tributary."  That is, I guess, a small creek? So...now it does not flow into the larger stream that was going to have been dammed for a small hydroelectric plant.  So the water has been diverted to somehow bypass the Four Seasons land and enter the larger stream elsewhere?  Really? 

[lazylou]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:20 AM, roughing it said:

  Beth is a mess, yet Daddy wants her to run for a council seat?  

I think he wants her to run for the State Assembly.  The only other possibility would be county commissioner, and that would have been called "county commissioner."  Problem is, when I was growing up in Montana, we would have called it running for the state legislature or the state house, but technically I think it may be the State Assembly.

[lazylou]

On 6/23/2018 at 10:55 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

This show is also reminiscent of Don Johnson's failed series Blood and Oil that was set in North Dakota. Kevin Costner is just a more natural fit for this genre.

And the show is just as poorly researched.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Meh, it's not supposed to be a documentary.

[Joimiaroxeu]

When Kayce left his son in the drainage pipe I didn't think he'd come back to find that kid alive. Guess it would've been too soap opera-ish a development.

Was that just an attempted rape or was there also some meth cooking going on? I didn't understand the purpose of the face masks.

"Just my heritage." Dutton definitely knows to engage in one-upsmanship and payback, but Rainwater can take the longer view because his people have been on that land for millennia.

Yikes, the Dutton kids take sibling rivalry to the next level. When Jamie slugged Beth I think I felt it through the TV screen.

Quote

Beth is a mess, yet Daddy wants her to run for a council seat?   

I suspect he'll be okay with her losing because he'll be buying/backing the candidate running against her. She'll mainly serve as a distraction.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[truecrystal]

On 7/12/2018 at 6:19 PM, Mnemosyne said:

That was Josh Lucas playing young John. Very little screen time, but I thought he had Costner's mannerisms down well. Gretchen Mol was great as Evelyn as well.

I think I'd be more interested in that show with them and the kids as children than what's actually airing. The 70s would have been an interesting time too given Wounded Knee and the American Indian movement.

As it is, Kayce on the res is the most  compelling storyline so far, and that's a pretty low bar. Beth is a terrible character, and I don't mean just unlikable. She is horribly written and burdened with every bitchy woman cliché ever: bad childhood, acting out sexually, smokes, drinks too much, daddy's little girl...the list goes on. I'm sure the flashback was supposed to provide some context for her adult behavior, but there needs to be a hell of a lot more going on to explain what's going on with her. And the fact that she's supposed to be this ball busting business savant as self-destructive as she is... I just can't. I also can't help but wonder if having some women writers on staff (I didn't see any listed on IMdb) could help flesh her out in a believable way. 

[Dowel Jones]

If you go to the ParamountNetwork.com, there are some interviews with cast members, both about their characters and the filming.  Just as with Matt Rhys in The Americans, it's a hoot to listen to Kelly Reilly speak in her native London English describing her character Beth.

[CaptainCranky]

Sometimes we make decisions that turn out well. Deciding to forgo watching the show and following on this comment forum was one of those times.

[seacliffsal]

I will give the next episode a shot, but most probably will be out.  Beth just kills any momentum that a story line may have had for me.  I guess Paramount is excited that they were able to show nekked breasts (and nipple!) on t.v.; otherwise there is no rhyme nor reason for the Beth strolls to a horse trough to drink champagne and bother everyone.  I was on her brother's side in the barn scene as her character just bothers me so much.   

Josh Lucas seems like too big of a name for a less than 1 minute cameo.  I wonder if this means that there will be more flashback scenes as the show continues.  

It was a tense moment or two for me as Kayce's son was kicking the snake.  I really didn't know how it would end as I thought that if the son died, it would really send Kayce on a downward spiral.

[Dowel Jones]

I would have thought Kayce would have taught his son better than that.  I was told at a very young age not to mess with rattlesnakes under any circumstances.  Granted, he had been told to stay in the culvert, but he has shown that he was willing to get out of the truck contrary to instructions.  He could have let the snake go on its way, no harm no foul, but, then again, the show would have lost a chance for him to show his dad who he is.

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Josh Lucas seems like too big of a name for a less than 1 minute cameo.

Same with Gretchen Mol.

[joel123]

complete hs ! the daughter needed to be beat 1/2 to death about 20 years ago. the dad has done a hit job on raising his kids. if she hits a man then a man should kick the shit out of her you want equality! could they find a more hargered ugly broad to play the daughter ? she looks older than costner ! in no way is she attractive in anyway! if i were his son he'd die with some accident with his beloved bs daughter. if you raised a bitch that thinks its ok to repeatedly hit a guy and think he should walk away then you need your ass kick with hers!!!a real man would have kicked your fucking teeth in!!!go fuck yourselves for the shit writing and bullshit show that's the last episode for me! cunts!  

[Ohwell]

I know it's not politically correct, but I don't care, I gave you a "like" just because you had me cracking up!

[Dowel Jones]

I'm on the other side. I clicked on the wrong icon; can't remove a like, apparently.

[Ohwell]

12 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm on the other side. I clicked on the wrong icon; can't remove a like, apparently.

Sure you can, just click on the heart.

[Dowel Jones]

Duh.  Thanks.

[Pallas]

A secret about John comes to the surface. 

[rocketinu]

I really am intrigued about the "Y" brand and the meaning behind it.  Evidently a person is untouchable that has it. Wondering if Jimmy is actually a family member and doesn't know it. Beth continues to be one of the most unlikeable characters ever for me.  I actually enjoyed the interaction between John and his grandson. They clearly adore each other.