Curb Your Enthusiasm - General Discussion

[buttersister]

One take—of too many—as the Times celebrates Curb.

No paywall for you.

[Galileo908]

People, it's been an honor.

So good to see Richard one last time. "You think you're suicide material?" was a classic bit.

And yep, we in Seinfeld Finale territory. We started on a plane, and we're at a trial. Leon totally doesn't see himself in Kramer, even Jerry showed up! And the first witness against Larry? Mocha Joe. And then came everyone else: Mr. Takahashi, Alexander Vindman, Irma (and calling out Larry taking the holocaust shoes!), and the list goes on. Man, they brought in some deep cuts, like the doll girl. And of course, the defense witnesses hated Larry, too. Of course stealing Auntie Raye's recipe was gonna bite him in the ass. Man, if only Funkhauser was still alive to be here. (And speaking of which, Freddy was the only regular who didn't show up in this!)

Of course, Leon would be into Seinfeld when he realized it was about Weekly Ass. Jerry had a new girl almost every week. Loved Jerry confirming to Leon that there IS a Seinfeld Fuck Tape. It's 13 hours long and it's only on laserdisc. And Jerry saves the day, points out Pesci Guy was a juror that was supposed to be sequestering, mistrial declared!

EDIT: "GO BACK TO FUCKIN' JAIL, LARRY!" was the perfect line to go out on. You just know Susie is gonna hang that over Larry's head forever.

Edited April 8 by Galileo908

[Arkay]

Well, it was what we were all expecting. As soon as the title said “No Lessons,” I’m sure we all figured that the obvious was happening—-Larry David showing the world that he would double down on the much berated Seinfeld finale.

Jerry was fun, though, and Auntie Rae was great. 

I love Dean Norris when he was Hank, but I thought his Southern  accent was pretty, pretty bad.

Who was the prosecutor? Greg Kinnear?

I’ll miss the show but the time really had come. None of the latter seasons were as hilarious as the first few years. 

[Simon Boccanegra]

When Jerry came to the jail cell and got Larry sprung, shortly after we heard about Cynthia (Allison Janney) buying a gun and still having anger toward Larry, I was totally expecting a layering of the Seinfeld finale and the Sopranos finale, with an ambiguous death in the final scene. I'm relieved to have been wrong. 

I thought the finale was fan service done right—an improved remix of Seinfeld's finale, which I didn't like in 1998 and haven't liked on rewatches. 

About the series as a whole, I'll just say that while the 2017-2024 seasons (especially season 11) were a bit patchier than those of the glory days, I'm grateful for all the laughs and memories Curb has given me. It's not unusual for shows like 60 Minutes to keep going for decades, but I don't think I've ever watched an entertainment series that ran for 25 years (counting from the 1999 special/pilot), even with long hiatuses between seasons. "Thank you, Larry" (tm Greg the pre-gay kid from S8). Thank you, Jeff, Cheryl, Susie, Ted, JB, Richard and Bob (RIP x2), all the other recurring players and guest stars, directors and producers.

Even the worst episode had some line or image that made me smile. I'm glad all 120 of them will be available for streaming in the years left to me.

Edited April 8 by Simon Boccanegra

[Galileo908]

1 minute ago, Arkay said:

Who was the prosecutor? Greg Kinnear?

It was.

Just now, Simon Boccanegra said:

I thought the finale was fan service done right—an improved remix of Seinfeld's finale, which I didn't like in 1998 and haven't liked on rewatches. 

It REALLY didn't help that an hour-long clip show preceded what was essentially a dolled-up clip show.

[Arkay]

23 minutes ago, Arkay said:

Well, it was what we were all expecting. As soon as the title said “No Lessons Learned,” I’m sure we all figured that the obvious was happening—-Larry David showing the world that he would double down on the much berated Seinfeld finale.

Jerry was fun, though, and Auntie Rae was great. 

I love Dean Norris when he was Hank, but I thought his Southern  accent was pretty, pretty bad.

Who was the prosecutor? Greg Kinnear?

I’ll miss the show but the time really had come. None of the latter seasons were as hilarious as the first few years. 

 

 

[aghst]

Trial was basically a relitigation of Larry’s antics over the years.  Call backs going back all the way to The Pants Tent episode, the very first one.

First thing, those earlier seasons the entire episodes had a plot with the payoff at the end.  This season it seemed more about getting in as many scenes with celebrity guests.

Many of the things they brought up made Larry look bad but there were often extenuating circumstances or misunderstandings like the bottle of water he hid in his pants or him trying to deflate the doll and Cheryl walks in on him seemingly humping it.

If Larry is unapologetic about these situations, in many cases he has no reason to be.  Certainly scamming the recipe from Auntie Mae isn’t good but rather than being about malevolence or being a bad person, it was more about own-goals or self-sabotage.

Seinfeld characters were shown as being selfish people and were also hurt by being victims of circumstances.  Did they deserve prison time?  No way Larry, without a criminal record, should be getting a prison sentence.

LD keeps saying his shows are not about lessons or character growth.  Yet this season plot was loosely about an unjust law enacted for voter suppression, so it did have a political opinion being expressed.

[Simon Boccanegra]

Callbacks are never my favorite thing in comedy, and the Seinfeld finale is a good example of why. Besides what @Galileo908 pointed out, that many of the classic Seinfeld clips in the finale had already aired in the preceding clip show (besides the multiple times many of us had seen them in syndication), it was if the show was saying, "Hey, remember this funny thing?" rather than, you know, being funny again in the present. That's virtually an illustration of resting on one's laurels.  

Here in the Curb finale, I don't think the callbacks had to do as much of the heavy lifting. They were more of a garnish. And one subtle callback I liked: both this episode and episode 1, "The Pants Tent," have Larry meeting Richard's new girlfriend without knowing who she is, and the two of them taking an instant dislike to one another. The season 1 version, the woman who blocks the aisle of the movie theater, was played by Sofia Milos, who was having a good year on HBO's series. She was also the Italian mob boss Annalisa Zucca, with whom Tony bargained for Furio's services in season 2 of The Sopranos. 

[catsitter]

Surely the best character witness that Larry could have called on his behalf would have been Richard to say that Larry gave him a kidney.

[Not4Me]

I disliked the last two seasons due to the nonsensical writing and Larry become a caricature. But the ending was thankfully very satisfying, especially the final scene on the plane. Ending as it started—everyone arguing. 

And yet so many unanswered questions from the season and in the episode:

I’m surprised Susie would even agree to commit perjury and a potential felony by pretending to be Larry’s wheelchaired lover in court. 

Leon comforting Larry that he’ll watch over “our house” was a flex!

Is Jerry Seinfeld really the true love of Larry’s life?

I’ll never look at Cheryl the same knowing

Spoiler

she hates Mexican food

.

 

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, Arkay said:

Well, it was what we were all expecting. As soon as the title said “No Lessons,” I’m sure we all figured that the obvious was happening—-Larry David showing the world that he would double down on the much berated Seinfeld finale.

Actually, I thought he was admitting he got it wrong.  The very simple switch to the ending made it much more palatable.  I'd say it's a victory for all concerned.  

Another thing that made it go down easier than the Seinfeld finale was that they got through the trial quicker, since this was basically a half hour show.  IIRC the Seinfeld finale was stretched to an hour.  I'm not fond of clip shows, but this was painless enough.

[Galileo908]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Another thing that made it go down easier than the Seinfeld finale was that they got through the trial quicker, since this was basically a half hour show.  IIRC the Seinfeld finale was stretched to an hour.  I'm not fond of clip shows, but this was painless enough.

I'd agree. Like I said, the Seinfeld finale was a dolled-up clip show with a thin premise for those clips. Here, the clips served the story, and the trial, while built up all season, was not the only focus of the episode, nor were all the clips shown at once. There were clips that Larry could've refuted, like the Doll Girl or the obituary, but Larry being Larry...didn't.

[DoctorAtomic]

So glad Richard Lewis made it for the finale.

I also didn't realize that the voting law would be a felony.

Larry knows you have to shut the phone off on the plane. I don't like it when he's just being obnoxious for no reason. The flight attendant was really good though. 

I don't know where Larry came up, but no way I'd let him in the lane either. I would have sped up though. I liked the jury selection scene though. I agreed with Larry. String tie? Get him out of there.  

I never saw the Seinfeld finale, but I know there was a trial and they ended up in jail at the end. I assume Larry is being meta and commenting on both. It's kind of half sided if Larry's lawyer isn't going to cross examine. The court scenes were kind of static. Without anyone to really play off Larry, it doesn't work as well. I can see Takahashi or Tracey Ullman being called in, but it's a bit much that they found the lady from the ski lift or the Japanese restaurant. I guess it's meant to be fantastical to a point, but it's flat. No one defended Larry? Jeff, Susie, JB? Richard? Even Jerry?

Susie in the wheelchair has to be the greatest gag in the entire show. Bringing her in next to Larry helped out the scene better. Until she stormed off. I kind of call Susie a little out though. Was she so upset how Jeff got the recipe though?  

Seinfeld was clearly enjoying Larry's routine about the bearded lady. 

This is kind of silly to just put "Larry" on trial by taking select dialogue out of context. It's hamstringing the strength of the show. 

[LoveLeigh]

I think the final episode was unimaginative and filled with bizarre disappointing retrospectives and references. As a stand alone episode, it was as great as any that came before but It will never be included on any 10 best finale episode lists... and final episodes should knock it out of the park in surprising mind bending ways. I am feeling let down but I also realize most viewers loved it because they love the series. I too loved the series and love Larry David but his brilliant mind could have come up with a better finale within some trip down a rabbit hole that made this episode the standard or benchmark by which all others are compared. Viewers are still, over a decade plus later, discussing The Sopranos final 20 second cut to black... what in ten years will be talked about in "No Lessons Learned?" The luck of a mistrial? I hope this particular episode can have conversations here within some serious analysis instead of just posts that are fan accolades for what probably is the greatest comedy series of all time. I hope the comments are not pejorative remarks targeting me about my opinion but of more value which views the episode through a different lens that maybe will help me see it differently.

In an homage to The Sopranos, Larry and friends should have gone to a diner and sat at a booth and Richard's gf should have entered and sat at the counter and then gone to the bathroom and exited and stood in front of Larry and then a 20 second cut to black......

[wendyg]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:47 AM, baldryanr said:

Well, why wouldn't she?  Lori Loughlin isn't exactly an A-list actor (insert joke about how if she was, she wouldn't have needed to cheat to get her kid into college).

I do wonder if Larry did this because he knows a segment of the audience will blow up with indignation about casting her (I guess Felicity Huffman was busy).

Not sure when they shot this episode, but Huffman is and has been for the last couple of months in a play in London called HIR. She's very good in it, so finding her way back.

[Blakeston]

I really didn't care for the finale. We not only saw this concept on the Seinfed finale, we also saw it in the finale of the fatwa season.

When that man who was sent to kill Larry met up with his past antagonists - like the ski lift woman - that was funny, because his attempts to put a positive spin on Larry's misadventures were clever.

This was just "look, it's that person" again.

The one appearance that really cracked me up was Auntie Rae, because they actually bothered to give it a comic premise, with her figuring about the recipe thievery.

[jww]

In reality none of the character testimony would have been allowed and Larry would have been informed of all the state's witnesses through discovery.

[AAEBoiler]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

The one appearance that really cracked me up was Auntie Rae

Auntie Rae was the best part of the entire episode. Her mangling of the names when responding to Jeff was funny as hell!

[aghst]

Didn't Larry say something questioning whether phones really endanger airliner operation?

They were just taxing but they could have had the plane do a temporary plunge like the Seinfeld finale and the cast panicking and turns out all of them turned their phones on.

LD made some comments recently which showed where his political leanings lie.  So this Georgia law for voter suppression of black voters is certainly a political statement.

Instead of challenging the law, the trial was more about his character, which used to matter with politicians.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, Galileo908 said:

I'd agree. Like I said, the Seinfeld finale was a dolled-up clip show with a thin premise for those clips. Here, the clips served the story, and the trial, while built up all season, was not the only focus of the episode, nor were all the clips shown at once. 

Another thing that made this a better clip show is that Curb is funnier than Seinfeld IMO.  And I don't mean that as a criticism of Seinfeld.  I like to say Larry has produced arguably the best sitcom of all time, and then went on to make another one, which was better.

Actually, I consider the Dick Van Dyke Show the best sitcom of all time, but Seinfeld is definitely in the conversation.

[DoctorAtomic]

4 hours ago, jww said:

In reality none of the character testimony would have been allowed and Larry would have been informed of all the state's witnesses through discovery.

I've always been on the side that Larry is mostly right about whatever he's arguing about. Sometimes he picks nits to get a rise out of people. Other times, like for the party, the guy was delusional if the thought Larry was going to be cordial. So, caveat emptor. 

Knowing that Mocha Joe et al., were going to testify, I would have liked to see Larry's lawyer get into it as much as Larry does. "You're coffee was never cold? Ever? Really?" "You're asking a 60 something year old man to jump 45' because you can't be next to a man at sunset?" 

Why not get John Hamm up there on the stand? The spite store is just funny, and Larry being unapologetic about it always lands for me. Or JB. 

Kind of flipping the perspective to really muddy the waters on who is the actual jerk in these situations. You could still have it that Larry just isn't that great of a guy and that he doesn't care about 'learning lessons'. What lessons? Letting people get away with their heads up their asses? Larry doesn't bend over backward to accommodate other people's bullshit. 

So you could have had it that Larry is just everyone's id and basically have the jury turn into a bunch of Larrys. 

If they were going to bring in obscure characters, they should have brought in the pig parker to get the jury on Larry's side. Everyone hates the pig parker. 

Oh, I saw a license plate yesterday that said Brooky!

Edited April 9 by DoctorAtomic

[Jaundiced Eye]

I stopped watching Curb a few seasons back because I had gotten bored with it (and Smooved out too), so it was a shock to see Richard Lewis in the flesh. I don't know when he got so ill, but I actually shrieked the first time I saw him on camera this season. I'm happy he was on the finale, but seeing him look so frail, and with his eyes closed on the plane at the end was a bit unnerving. I can't help but wonder if both Richard and Larry knew his time was running out in real life. Sorry about being a bummer, but I still can't believe Richard is gone. RIP to the (other) Man in Black.

[Galileo908]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Knowing that Mocha Joe et al., were going to testify, I would have liked to see Larry's lawyer get into it as much as Larry does. "You're coffee was never cold? Ever? Really?" "You're asking a 60 something year old man to jump 45' because you can't be next to a man at sunset?" 

Why not get John Hamm up there on the stand? The spite store is just funny, and Larry being unapologetic about it always lands for me. Or JB. 

Oh man, I agree. On the charge that Larry was on trial for, it made sense for just Auntie Rae to testify. But if they knew about the character witnesses, I wouldn't have doubted for a second that Jeff, Richard, and especially Leon would've been on the stand testifying for Larry.

Edited April 10 by Galileo908

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't know if Jeff is best to put on the stand since Larry has been complicit in his adultery since the special. JB would have gone off on how Larry gave him a place to tap that ass when his own house was destroyed. 

Richard Lewis is probably the best witness. 

It's the direction of the episode. They went kind of absurdist with the ski lift lady and all that, but they could have shifted up a gear. The jury turning into Larry at the end with no one learning a lesson at all really would have landed for me. It's Larry's show and that's what he wanted to do.

Larry is on the Smartless podcast this week. 

[sugarbaker design]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:40 AM, jww said:

In reality none of the character testimony would have been allowed and Larry would have been informed of all the state's witnesses through discovery.

I know when I want realistic legal practices I tune into CYE!  😉

[Stuckathome]

This was the first season I watched start to finish. We streamed a few from the previous season and I watched it once or twice over the years. 

One thing I wanted to get feedback on from those who have watched most of the seasons-----Jeff & Susie. What is the story with that marriage? I mean, for most of the episodes I watched they seemed to be a stereotypical long time couple in that they bicker and banter, but there is a genuine respect and love there. They seemed to at least truly respect and support each other. 

But then there was an episode where Jeff tells Larry he was screwing the dental hygienist and she had to get an abortion. He paid and she had been squeezing him for more and more cash, so Larry tries to find out if she actually ever was pregnant and had the procedure. Maybe I am naive, but....this is a thing? I mean, not a big deal to screw around on your wife & not care if a mutual friend (or aquaintance with a big mouth) knows??? I would say they have an open marriage but then if so why was he so scared of her finding out? Was this something that happened throughout the series run? 

Edited April 11 by Stuckathome

[Not4Me]

Jeff’s a habitual philandering unethical sleaze bag and Susie is a complete psycho. They’re a perfect match made in hell. The only reasons they’ve stayed with each other is out of convenience and because of Jeff’s fear of Susie. Exhibit A:

 

[DoctorAtomic]

There's also the other time when one of Jeff's floozies left her panties.

"I'm Larry David. I happen to enjoy wearing women's panties."

Even in the special prior to the series, Jeff was cheating. When Jeff and Larry went to NYC, him and Larry were going out after one of Larry's sets, and Jeff's gf showed up. Back then, Larry quickly figured out what was going on and was way uncomfortable. It played out later on with Cheryl. 

Once the series kicked in, Larry was always complicit. 

My original point, since I kicked off this current line of conversation was that no way Larry's lawyer would put Jeff on the stand because all of that could come to light. 

 

 

[Dobian]

We just finished binging seasons 8-12 and wrapped up the finale only four days after it aired.  RIP Richard Lewis.  The final episode was a good solid episode.  I wouldn't say it was amazing but the courtroom scene was funnier than the Seinfeld courtroom scene, and Susie definitely elevated it, as well as Leon's aunt when they both totally went off.  The last bit with Jerry at the jail was a nice spin on the Seinfeld final scene, and having all of them bickering on the plane back home was a good way to close.  Because that's what everyone does on Curb.

[Stuckathome]

Thanks everyone! love her divorce talk :) lol 

[Lone Wolf]

At least Cheryl didn't wake up to find Larry in the shower and realizing that everything from the season that they got divorced had been a dream.

Seriously though, it worked for me.  I especially liked Jerry meta-ing the fact that a lot of people were predicting (and hating the idea of) Curb ending like Seinfeld did:  "You don't want to end up like this. Nobody wants to see it. Trust me."

 

[EastCoast4Life]

16 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Seriously though, it worked for me.  I especially liked Jerry meta-ing the fact that a lot of people were predicting (and hating the idea of) Curb ending like Seinfeld did:  "You don't want to end up like this. Nobody wants to see it. Trust me."

It worked for me too, I actually loved the twist on the Seinfeld ending (where Larry goes free). 

[Arkay]

One character that I used to love but lately made me shudder is Leon.

When the Blacks moved in, Viveca and the crew, there were a lot of really funny episodes. Leon made me laugh all the time.

As the years went by, although it’s clear JB made Larry crack up, as a viewer it became monotonous to me because EVERY remark from Leon was sexual. 
 

He used to be a lot more nuanced, so at this point I won’t miss him. 

[Dobian]

On 4/12/2024 at 5:12 PM, Lone Wolf said:

At least Cheryl didn't wake up to find Larry in the shower and realizing that everything from the season that they got divorced had been a dream.

 

That ending might have worked for me.  Especially if the final moment was Cheryl's realization that instead of her dream life with Ted she's stuck with Larry again, as he's soaping her back, and the defeated anguished look on her face as it goes to black and...DA DA DUM...

[Joimiaroxeu]

Finally caught up with this season.

I was okay with the ending but I wish CYE hadn't telegraphed so hard how much it was going to tie back to the Seinfeld ending. IMO LD should've just left the Seinfeld ending alone because there are still going to be people dissatisfied with it.

I want to say I look forward to watching whatever LD does next but apparently he's decided to retire? At this point reality may have overtaken even the most sardonic comedy and even he's daunted.

Bye, Curb Your Enthusiasm. It's been quite a ride.

[rmontro]

On 4/11/2024 at 3:15 PM, Stuckathome said:

But then there was an episode where Jeff tells Larry he was screwing the dental hygienist and she had to get an abortion. He paid and she had been squeezing him for more and more cash, so Larry tries to find out if she actually ever was pregnant and had the procedure. Maybe I am naive, but....this is a thing?

From my observation, there are a lot of people who think and behave that way.  I certainly don't agree with it, but it's their life.  I'd say Jeff is a classic case of wanting his cake and eating it too.  

The whole relationship with Suzie, Jeff, and Larry is so odd to begin with.  Larry and Suzie sometimes get along like best friends, and seem genuinely fond of each other.  And at other times they are like mortal enemies.

[aghst]

Maybe if Larry is still in good health and feeling restless, there will be a special or two in a few years.

[Simon Boccanegra]

On 4/17/2024 at 10:20 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I want to say I look forward to watching whatever LD does next but apparently he's decided to retire? At this point reality may have overtaken even the most sardonic comedy and even he's daunted.

I watched an interview with Larry and Susie Essman from a talk show (one of the interviewers was Willie Geist, and they talked about his guest appearances in season 12), and when the word "retirement" came up, both Larry and Susie pushed back on it. Susie said—in one of the few times during the interview when she sounded like her Curb character, but without the cursing—that Larry was only retiring from Curb Your Enthusiasm, not retiring period.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

Larry was only retiring from Curb Your Enthusiasm, not retiring period.

That's good news.  I liked his Clear History movie.  It almost seemed like a long form episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, the character was very similar.  Maybe he can do something like that.