S07.E02: A Pirate's Life

[Camera One]

Just now, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I thought it was a tower, too. 

Hmm... then maybe it's the transcript that's wrong.  But I don't want to punish myself by rewatching this episode, LOL.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Hmm... then maybe it's the transcript that's wrong.  But I don't want to punish myself by rewatching this episode, LOL.

No, I'm pretty sure it's right. But I assumed the prison was a tower because of the other details.

So, Wish Realm people are real after all, not just Wish Robin as the exception because of original Robin's soul, and therefore we should care about Rogers as a character. And they can move between realms just fine, even though Regina and Emma were worried Wish Robin wouldn't be able to and took his travel through the portal in Storybrooke as some kind of sign. But it's still just fine that Regina kidnapped and murdered King Charming and Queen Snow (lol, I almost said 'King Snow and Queen Charming'). Make up your minds!

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

(lol, I almost said 'King Snow and Queen Charming'). 

I'm pretty sure there's a realm out there with that, too.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 10/13/2017 at 9:10 PM, Rumsy4 said:

. But hey–at least Captain Swan is happy in Storybrooke, and Woegina’s out of their and Snowing’s hair. Happy freaking Ending, everyone!!! 
 

On 10/13/2017 at 9:54 PM, Souris said:

And even better for CS and the rest of SB? They're Regina-free and Rumple-free now! Basically, SB is THE place to be!

That would have made a much better show than what we've gotten so far.  

[Rumsy4]

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Hmm... then maybe it's the transcript that's wrong.  But I don't want to punish myself by rewatching this episode, LOL.

I actually remember prison. But a lot of people (here and on tumblr) were saying tower, so I wondered. No need to punish yourself for this... ;-)

[Shanna Marie]

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

Henry has a tantrum sword fighting with Hook at the beginning, and says "What's the point... I'll never be good enough."  What?!  If you throw in dialogue like that, you have to address it.  Does Henry have an inferiority complex? 

That was so childish. He barely lost (and only because Emma distracted him) to a 200-year-old pirate with military training, combat experience, and about a century as a pirate. That's not shabby. But I guess he takes after his adoptive mom and thinks things should just be handed to him.

20 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

The pregnancy was tacked on, and even though Emma getting a second shot at motherhood is very important to her, that was just glossed over. We're not going to see the baby nor the realities of her pregnancy. She has never expressed wanting another kid before. Real!Hook didn't get a chance to comment on it at all.

There's still a chance of getting some resolution there, now that we don't have to worry about Hook being reunited with Emma. As I mentioned before, there could be something like Henry calling home once his memory is restored, and we see Hook with the new kid, he chats with Henry, then calls for Emma to come to the phone, and then we just see Henry's side of that conversation. I'm not too worried about not hearing Emma talk about wanting another kid, since it's not at all uncommon for a married couple to want to have kids. They've been married however many years, so having a baby is a natural step. It would have been nice to see a bit more of their life, though, more than Henry whining and them worrying about it. Maybe then they could have talked about maybe having a child, or talked about trying and it not happening, so that it's a much bigger deal when it happens. We could have seen them at home doing their at home stuff when they got the message. I'd have gladly traded most of the present-day Seattle story to get more closure for the Jones family.

14 hours ago, BoPeeps said:

This gives Colin and the new incarnation of Hook to go to some meatier places. The sparks of snark and sass WERE there.

This is one thing that give me hope for the future. Wish!Hook gives us more opportunity for some of the early Hook sass and inappropriate remarks, and since he and Regina are now with Henry, we won't just have boring flashbacks of Henry and Murderella. Plus, Colin really loves playing Wish!Hook, and I've noticed that when he's having fun, it's infectious, and that raises the energy level for everyone in the scene. That should really elevate the flashbacks. We might even have a chance for some good snark with Regina, which would get her sass back. I wonder when/why Regina didn't cast the curse in the Wish realm -- did she balk when it came time to murder her father, so everything else played out the same up to that point, or did the Charmings keep her imprisoned, which meant that Hook would never have worked for her and retrieved Cora? If it's the latter, then Hook wouldn't have the same relationship with Regina that our Hook has. And without any real history with her, he could go all-out on snarking at her.

Oh, God, they're going to pair them up, aren't they? Everything Emma gets, Regina gets given to her. She'll get her own Hook.

You know, even without that, this has got to be the craziest family. I can't believe they never gave us that Thanksgiving dinner. But now it's even worse. Henry is about the same age as his parents and as two of his grandparents. Depending on how the time passage works, his daughter might be older than his younger sibling, and possibly even his uncle. He has a stepfather who's also his step-grandfather, and he's got another version of the same person in his life, who's his step-grandfather but not his stepfather.

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

We might even have a chance for some good snark with Regina, which would get her sass back.

I actually thought Regina was kind of rude to Hook in this episode.  

Quote

I wonder when/why Regina didn't cast the curse in the Wish realm -- did she balk when it came time to murder her father, so everything else played out the same up to that point, or did the Charmings keep her imprisoned, which meant that Hook would never have worked for her and retrieved Cora? 

I wouldn't mind a flashback to the Wish Realm to find out why.  That whole idea had so much potential, but they never explored the "might have been"'s had Regina not enacted a Curse.  I mean, the ship has sailed for the impacts on Emma, Snow and Charming, but still... anything but more Lady Harpy and Murderella.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Oh, God, they're going to pair them up, aren't they? Everything Emma gets, Regina gets given to her. She'll get her own Hook.

Don't even think it. lol

And no--I don't think the writers will go there.

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

I actually thought Regina was kind of rude to Hook in this episode.  

I did too. She was quite happy to order him around.

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

I wouldn't mind a flashback to the Wish Realm to find out why.  That whole idea had so much potential, but they never explored the "might have been"'s had Regina not enacted a Curse.  I mean, the ship has sailed for the impacts on Emma, Snow and Charming, but still... anything but more Lady Harpy and Murderella.

Haha. We've become quite desperate if we prefer more EQ flashbacks to Murderella. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, XrystalPond said:

Rumple's accent is oddly placed and his wardrobe is driving me insane. It's like Bobby just rolled in and said the heck with wardrobe. Part of the interesting thing about Gold was his ability to be more upper class and better than other people even before everyone and their brother shot magic out of their fingers. It was a cool juxtaposition to the impoverished way he lived with Milah that he was a man who owned the entire town. You could see that he wouldn't be the rough and tumble grandfatherly type. He'd be the, "don't touch me with your grimy fingers and germy hands" type. Gold would not only not pump his own gas, he would not know where the station was located other than to go pick up their rent checks. Weaver might not pump his own gas, but he's been to the station at least.

Its not that he isn't dressed as upper class that is making me insane.  I just hate his jacket.  I hate that its denim.  I hate that it has so many pockets.  I hate the buttons.  I hate his use of the buttons.  I hate the collar. I hate the color.  I hate that its the same color as his jeans.  I hate the strategic fading of the denim.  I hate that the jacket is over a shirt.  I hate that the shirt isn't buttoned more than half way up.  I hate that the bottom of the shirt is hanging below the jacket.  I hate the collar of the shirt.  I hate the color of the shirt.  I that his jeans are rolled up at his ankles.  I hate that the inside of the jeans are the same color as the shirt.  There is so much blue in so many layers and I just hate it.

Oh, and this outfit is making him do some weird hip cocked out leaning thing with his posture which I presume is because the denim is too tight.  Its weird and uncomfortable.  If this is Rumple's season long wardrobe,  I won't be able to look at him.

And another thing, based on the stitching of the jacket which is done to trick the eye into thinking the wearer has a smaller waist, I think he's wearing a woman's denim jacket..

Edited October 15, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Rumsy4]

Tell us how you really feel about Rumple's outfit @ParadoxLost ;-) 

I agree with you though. It's awful and the leaning stance he's got going is pretty dreadful. Rumple is beyond irrelevant at this point. There was no need to bring him back at all.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Here is the transcript:

REAL HOOK: Tell me about your daughter.
WISH HOOK:
A vengeful witch trapped her in a prison.
Every day, I'd sneak in to play chess with her.
But I was discovered and punished.
My heart was poisoned cursed.
So I can never save her.
I knew I knew that true love was the cure.
So I roamed the realms seeking it, but it was futile.
Then, I thought, maybe Emma.

-------

I guess I mis-heard.  I thought he said a tower, but nope. 

Wouldn't Wish Hook's Daughter still be in the Wish Realm? 

I don't remember him saying anything about when he had the daughter.

I don't remember him saying when he had her either. But it really doesn't matter. With the way this show handles time, the daughter could have been born wherever/whenever and now show up in any realm looking any age.

34 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I actually remember prison. But a lot of people (here and on tumblr) were saying tower, so I wondered. No need to punish yourself for this... ;-)

He said prison. I just rewatched that scene.

I realized that I can't remember how Rumple's storyline ended last season. Were he and Belle back together? Did their magically-aged son de-age, or did I totally dream that? I ask, because if he and Belle were back together I don't understand how he ended up in this new curse. But if they weren't together I can see him being behind the new curse.

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I realized that I can't remember how Rumple's storyline ended last season. Were he and Belle back together? Did their magically-aged son de-age, or did I totally dream that? I ask, because if he and Belle were back together I don't understand how he ended up in this new curse. But if they weren't together I can see him being behind the new curse.

Yes, they were back together with a de-aged baby, and they were in that happy Last Supper.  I'm sure they will be revealing that backstory eventually... I guess one of the remaining mysteries this season?

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Rumple probably backslid again and Belle broke up with him again and Rumple is on a quest to get her and Gideon back again.

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Rumple probably backslid again and Belle broke up with him again and Rumple is on a quest to get her and Gideon back again.

Do you think they would be that repetitive and use the same storyline again?  

Oops, forgot which show this was.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Star Aristille]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

That was kind of really awkward. The Evil Cleavage thing doesn't work with modern clothing.

I was surprised too! I have a feeling JMo might have insisted on it.

 

10 hours ago, Souris said:

Even better than that, she actively cropped Lana out of one pic she posted! (As well as cropping out half of Eddy, LOL.)

Lana wasn't on set when Jen filmed, so they added her in post. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a condition in Jen's return contract. Once she knew she was leaving, no need to keep up appearances or care about a future working relationship.

Did Jennifer and Lana have problems with each other?  I'm really interested in hearing about this.

In any case, I'm just gonna have to ignore almost every post here in the future if I'm going to enjoy this viewing experience anymore.  I, for one, am hooked (no pun intended) and will be along for this ride as well as the last one.  I'm interested.  I'm intrigued.  And I'm gonna stick with this show until the end.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Star Aristille

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

In any case, I'm just gonna have to ignore almost every post here in the future if I'm going to enjoy this viewing experience anymore.  I, for one, am hooked (no pun intended) and will be along for this ride as well as the last one.  I'm interested.  I'm intrigued.  And I'm gonna stick with this show until the end.

I did enjoy Roni, Rogers and Henry teaming up at the end. The show has more energy than it did in the past few seasons. And with everyone under a curse and lacking their memories like in Season 1, there's an actual conflict to be overcome.

[SailorGirl]

16 hours ago, CCTC said:

Then they followed that up with Emma and Hook basically having a conversation that he was almost grown up and ready to leave  home.  All I could think was - no - he is acting like a immature spoiled brat who could not handle the adversity of a paper route.  It does not help that Jared did not look anywhere near grown up and ready to leave home.

Am I the ONLY person who thinks adult Henry is pretty true to youth Henry in both looks and mannerisms? I think AdultHenry actor has done a very fine job -- there are many little mannerisms and facial and body movements that are very true to youth Henry (and I wasn't a fan of twee Henry, but I"m kinda vibing on AdultHenry). As much as I want to like altCinderella/Murderella, the actress just doesn't do it for me -- I couldn't buy in to who she was on Devious Maids (Meester Speeence!) and she hasn't won me over now. Its the actress, not the character.

And as someone who lives in a small town upon which much social activity revolves around a few select bars during regattas, do not judge day drinking unless you've done it. There is a HELL of a lot to be said for a good hooky day in a bar . . .sometimes, you just need a day. And in a small town, even if you only come in randomly, the good bartenders know who you are. So no drama for me about Roni (other than her name, which, WTF . . .at least, Ronnie? When I see the name Roni, all I think is bad 90s song "Tender Roni") knowing HH Alt Murderella.

FWIW . . .drinking in a sailing town is not like drinking elsewhere . . . for perspective . . . my non sailing friends think I have a problem .  . . my sailing friends think I'm a lightweight -- ultimately, its all a matter of perspective.

So short story long . . . I'm in. Even with nonbelievable child and Murderella as non-starters, I like adult Henry, Rodgers is already letting his inner Rumpel show, and come on . . . Colin.

I should probably mention one of my best sailing friends is a dead ringer for Colin O'Donoghue, and we convinced an entire bar (yay for day drinking!) he WAS Colin, sans makeup, who had a whole separate life and loved sailboat racing, and one of his most favorite parts of being who he was as a fantasy pirate sex symbol (c'mon -- you know you want him) was that NO ONE recognized him if he weren't made up as Hook, so he could just go out and live an entirely normal life and race sailboats and not have to be "on." You should have seen the line of women waiting to take their picture with him once we pulled up a picture of Hook and put it beside my friend -- like I said . . . this is just one reason why day drinking is never to be underestimated (and it helps to have a hot friend who looks like Colin O'Donoghue).  . . .Icing on the cake? Hot sailing friend fake Colin had no idea who real Hook Colin was  .  .  . it just made it that much more believable because he could COMPLETELY deny being Colin because he had NO CLUE who Colin was!!! But then there was me, just a'stirrin' that pot . . .  hehehe. . . . 

Edited October 15, 2017 by SailorGirl

[Noneofyourbusiness]

26 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Am I the ONLY person who thinks adult Henry is pretty true to youth Henry in both looks and mannerisms? I think AdultHenry actor has done a very fine job -- there are many little mannerisms and facial and body movements that are very true to youth Henry (and I wasn't a fan of twee Henry, but I"m kinda vibing on AdultHenry).

The appearance at least; I've read some comments by people saying he doesn't look enough like young Henry and my reaction is disbelief (at the comments).

[asabovesobelow]

42 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

 

Did Jennifer and Lana have problems with each other?  I'm really interested in hearing about this.

I’d like to know about this too. Is it just speculation or fact? Anti-SQ throws that around and probably some anti-CS as well, but I’ve never seen anything that cements them not liking each other. They may not be best friends, but they haven’t appeared as anything other than friendly.

[Camera One]

I have no idea but I assume it's just speculation since they are both consummate professionals.  They had to work together a lot and that didn't affect the performances in any way.  There are just some people at work you're closer to than others.  

Quote

Am I the ONLY person who thinks adult Henry is pretty true to youth Henry in both looks and mannerisms?

I think the shape of their faces are actually quite similar.  Unfortunately, I can't feel the "Henry" in him (even when he was having scenes with Regina, Hook and Emma) so the mannerisms are not making an impression on me.  I think Andrew J. West is doing a decent job.  Overall, to me, he lacks presence as a protagonist.  It could be the writing, but there really isn't the depth that is required in a lead character.  I also don't sympathesize with him or relate to him in any way.  Unlike Victoria and Jacinda, he doesn't take me out of the scene with the acting, so that's a plus and very important, since it could make the Adult Henry/Wish Hook/Regina buddy adventure in the flashbacks and the Adult Henry/Rogers/Roni alliance in present-day a bit more palatable.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

59 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Overall, to me, he lacks presence as a protagonist. It could be the writing, but there really isn't the depth that is required in a lead character. I also don't sympathesize with him or relate to him in any way.

These are definitely more of a problem than the lack of resemblance (unlike most of the other child-adult casting on the Show). It's even more obvious now how much the former cast elevated the writing.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

I should probably mention one of my best sailing friends is a dead ringer for Colin O'Donoghue, and we convinced an entire bar (yay for day drinking!) he WAS Colin, sans makeup, who had a whole separate life and loved sailboat racing, and one of his most favorite parts of being who he was as a fantasy pirate sex symbol (c'mon -- you know you want him) was that NO ONE recognized him if he weren't made up as Hook, so he could just go out and live an entirely normal life and race sailboats and not have to be "on." You should have seen the line of women waiting to take their picture with him once we pulled up a picture of Hook and put it beside my friend -- like I said . . . this is just one reason why day drinking is never to be underestimated (and it helps to have a hot friend who looks like Colin O'Donoghue).  . . .Icing on the cake? Hot sailing friend fake Colin had no idea who real Hook Colin was  .  .  . it just made it that much more believable because he could COMPLETELY deny being Colin because he had NO CLUE who Colin was!!! But then there was me, just a'stirrin' that pot . . .  hehehe. . . . 

You are pure evil to the core.  I like that in a person.  ;-)

Edited October 15, 2017 by legaleagle53

[twoods]

I tuned in to see Emma and Hook get their happy ending, but I may continue to watch because the storyline is intriguing. I like adult Henry, but Cinderella is a big fat no. The actress is terrible and every scene she is in makes me cringe. The actress that plays Tiana is much better and would have made Cinderella tolerable. Toss up on Lucy- I need to give her a few more episodes.

 

Didnt recognize Victoria as the actress from Burn Notice. Lana plays evil villain much better, but she's okay.

Edited October 15, 2017 by twoods

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I guess it was supposed to be a wealthy audience whose children/grandchildren attend this dance school, but it still doesn't make any sense.  It was such a dinky little stage, too.  The place was obviously not set up for a big charity event with caterers, and nobody who didn't have a child involved would go see that recital for free, much less pay $500 to attend.

LOL.  I too thought that stage was ridiculously small.  I'm not a fan of the character or the acting but why was Lucy MIA in most of this?  Is Lucy rebelling against Victoria?  I'm surprised she didn't refuse to participate in the ballet, or do something else to get her mom in.  At least Young Henry was proactive and sneaky.  It looked like Lucy would have just let things be if her mom didn't attend.  I wonder if a scene was cut since Lucy seemed to know that Henry was helping.

So they "last minute" decided to charge everyone $550 and have the event be catered?  Forget the characters, these Writers clearly don't live in the real world, and they couldn't be bothered to research how event planning works.

And I don't get it.  Does Jacinda get to see Lucy at all?  Wouldn't a scene with the two of them being affected by this separation be needed for us to care?  Maybe they could have cut that pointless scene with Hook and Rumple nosing through Henry's apartment.

I guess we got confirmation that Drizella is Lady Tremaine's daughter in Hyperion Heights as well.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[BoPeeps]

Tossing this added “dying but soon to be revived old reprobate Hook” dialogue...

he has the rook piece and his daughter has the Knight that is how we will know she is his daughter.

[kingshearte]

On 10/15/2017 at 0:28 AM, SailorGirl said:

Am I the ONLY person who thinks adult Henry is pretty true to youth Henry in both looks and mannerisms? I think AdultHenry actor has done a very fine job -- there are many little mannerisms and facial and body movements that are very true to youth Henry (and I wasn't a fan of twee Henry, but I"m kinda vibing on AdultHenry).

No, you're not. Appearance-wise, he's not quite as spot-on as some, but it's believable. And I've definitely picked up a few times when the way he said something sounded very much like the way Jared would have said it. I can't really speak to mannerisms, because I'm not usually watching particularly closely, but I'd believe it.

Also, I didn't quote this part, but as someone who often has some acid-reflux if I try to go to bed too soon after drinking, I am fully on board with day drinking. I've never really understood why, before 5, drinking often gets you at least a side eye, but after 5, it suddenly becomes perfectly acceptable. I mean, if you're pounding them back starting with breakfast and not letting up until you pass out at night, that's obviously a problem. But really, what's the difference between a couple of drinks in the middle of the afternoon and a couple of drinks after dinner? Ahem. Sorry for the digression.

I'm also kind of still stuck on the ballet recital. What about all the people who bought their tickets in advance? Are we to believe that no one did, and they all just showed up day-of, and no one balked at the sudden ticket price increase (likely in the neighbourhood of at least 25x more than they would have been advertised previously)? Even well-off people aren't necessarily in a position to just drop $1100 (assuming a couple) with no advance notice or planning. I know this is a show full of hand-waving, but I just can't even with this one.

Edited October 16, 2017 by kingshearte
Math brain fart

[tessaray]

The writing, acting (except Colin), editing, and pacing of this show is awful but there were some bright spots. First, I only barely remember the Wish Realm, so I was okay with the Falstaff-ian Hook being transformed by real Hook's blood and the fairy godmother's wand and then latching on to Emma and TL.  That made as much sense as anything else ever has in Once.  CS is intact (poor JMo and that wig though!) and Regina not having anything in SB to go back to fits fine. And I caught how they made an effort to match up young and older Henry with the posture, hair, etc.  - just the fact that they made the effort won them some points... still don't much care for adult Henry in flashback or HH.  Jacinda was less frantic/abrasive and that helped, though still no chemistry.

I am confused by what they've done to Robert Carlyle.  If he doesn't want to play Rumple anymore, that's fine but between the weird accent and the hideous wardrobe (if you can call it that) I just don't want him on my screen.  The spark with Hook/Gold from seasons past wasn't there either.  And without the EQ, Roni is just a bartender and Henry's mom. 

So, 2 episodes down and 2 to go for me and then I'll decide.  If we don't know anything else about the curse, then I'm probably out.  No way am I going to sit through months of them not knowing who they are, with the story dribbling out in bits and pieces. 

ETA:  I forgot to comment on the whole recital thing. I'm going with only Jacinda being charged $550 to keep her out and Victoria waiving the ticket price for everyone else. 

The thing is, I have seen real world custody situations where a mom in trouble has been pressured to give up her parental rights, with the resulting chaos when she gets her life together and wants her kid back.  If that's where they're going they need to say so.  The other, more fictional motive is that Lucy is the heir to something that Victoria wants, so she needs to be her guardian. Again, we need to know this.  This weird, not knowing makes it too obvious that I don't care about these people or their backstory. 

[Leia1979]

I actually paid attention in episode one, but today I just wanted to fast forward through all the Hyperion Heights stuff. I'm glad the writers gave Emma and Hook some kind of offscreenville happy ending. It's better than a) nothing or b) killing off Emma. But I seem to have suddenly lost interest in any of these other people. Wish-realm Hook might have an interesting story (and count me among the group that also immediately thought of Rapunzel). But I don't think it's enough. I haven't actively deleted OUAT from my DVR, but I'm thinking about it.

And I'm disappointed Emma didn't really get to do anything but serve as a plot device for wish-realm Hook. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Leia1979

[txhorns79]

Quote

Regina really has no life in Storybrooke if she can just drop everything and leave. It's my happy headcanon that when Henry left, everyone realised they didn't have to talk to Regina or hang around her anymore so she was left alone and that makes me laugh! 

I did laugh that she basically walked away from Storybrooke at what seemed like the drop of a hat.  So much for that happy ending! 

Quote

I am confused by what they've done to Robert Carlyle.  If he doesn't want to play Rumple anymore, that's fine but between the weird accent and the hideous wardrobe (if you can call it that) I just don't want him on my screen.  The spark with Hook/Gold from seasons past wasn't there either.  And without the EQ, Roni is just a bartender and Henry's mom. 

I'm with you.  I didn't understand his 1980s jean jacket style wardrobe, his chosen accent or what his purpose is in this world.  I mean, they showed Regina, who had magic, needed outside help to bring on the curse, and Rumple gave himself immunity.  It would be strange to me if Lady Tremain, whose only magical abilities come from the wand, was able to do the whole thing without him or that he wouldn't have given himself special advantages over her. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by txhorns79

[jhlipton]

"There's a port; and where you have a port, you'll find pirates."  Really???  Thieves everywhere and no one gives a flip?

The reason that we can't see Lady Tremaine/Victoria as Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil is as that she doesn't have the "Cleavage of Evil" (but Cinders does...)

On 10/14/2017 at 7:41 AM, Rumsy4 said:

I was laughing at that nod! I don't think JMo and Lana filmed together for that scene. It definitely looked edited-in. I guess JMo was done working with Lana--she probably put it in her contract. She also didn't post any pics with Lana on Instagram for the nostalgia-week.

They're both appearing together as a OUAT convention in Beverly Hills in November (along with Rebecca Mader).  Take that for what it's worth.

14 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Thanks guys. I think the part about her being imprisoned in a Tower was a collective hallucination or something.

The rook is often portrayed as a tower (as with Alt!Hook's piece) and is even called a tower in some versions.

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

The rook is often portrayed as a tower (as with Alt!Hook's piece) and is even called a tower in some versions.

Or Castle. 

[daxx]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

They're both appearing together as a OUAT convention in Beverly Hills in November (along with Rebecca Mader).  Take that for what it's worth.

All the creation cons JMo and Colin have been on Saturday only and Lana on Sunday only. So, yeah.

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, kingshearte said:

I'm also kind of still stuck on the ballet recital. What about all the people who bought their tickets in advance? Are we to believe that no one did, and they all just showed up day-of, and no one balked at the sudden ticket price increase (likely in the neighbourhood of at least 25x more than they would have been advertised previously)? Even well-off people aren't necessarily in a position to just drop $1200 (assuming a couple) with no advance notice or planning.

I haven't heard of too many dance schools that charge for their recitals. They generally consider that the tuition paid all year counts as the "ticket," since the recital is to show off what the students have learned. A recital is basically marketing for the school, letting the parents see their little darlings up on stage, dancing, and making them feel that all the money and time has been worth it, so they'll sign up again. Charging an outrageous price for the recital would pretty much kill the dance school. Even if Victoria paid them off, they still wouldn't have as many students the following year.

Really, the mess with the way they're handling the Seattle part of the story may be what kills the show. They could get away with Regina being so in control of Storybrooke because Storybrooke was essentially a bubble of the Enchanted Forest moved to our world and dressed up like 20th Century America. The US Constitution didn't apply and the laws of the state of Maine didn't apply. There was no one to appeal to in order to make these laws apply, and because everyone in town was cursed, they didn't think there was anything wrong with it. No one noticed that there were never elections. Regina had control over the police department because she had the sheriff's heart in a box in her desk and could control him.

But now they're in Seattle. They're not even in a closed-off neighborhood of Seattle, where they think they're a part of the city but don't notice that no one ever comes or goes from the rest of the city because it's part of the plot that Victoria is trying to bring people in and send the cursed people out. That means they have to deal with stuff like laws, social media, and the press. There's no way Victoria could magically have power over the entire city of Seattle. While wealthy people do have influence and can get things done, it's not to the level of "I want this man arrested" or being able to just take custody of her stepdaughter's child. It's more like getting preferential treatment from the planning and zoning board, maybe getting health or building inspectors to nudge things in her favor, supporting the campaigns of state representatives to make sure laws favorable to her business are passed and laws unfavorable to her business get killed in committee, maybe having shark-like lawyers who can get her off on DWI charges or threaten lawsuits.

But what they're showing here is ridiculous and damages the suspension of disbelief, which is critical for a show like this. There's no way that a mother who has legal custody of a child would lose custody and visitation rights because she wanted to go somewhere with that child. It is possible that a grandmother or even stepgrandmother might end up with legal custody of a child because they try to get a family placement before putting a kid in the foster system, but they also try to err on the side of keeping families together, so a child would have to be abused or neglected to be taken from a mother and given to a relative. Lucy is healthy, hasn't been harmed, and seems happy. Her only issue is running away, but if the family were investigated, it would raise a red flag on Victoria that Lucy was always running away to avoid spending time with her. Keeping Lucy from Jacinda would require all kinds of social worker visits and investigations and court hearings, and I doubt that even Victoria's wealth and influence would sway that because most people in social work or family court are doing it because they believe in what they're doing. And it's an easy enough fix. They just need one line to suggest that Jacinda already has a couple of strikes against her for Lucy's truancy or for not providing adequate supervision, and Victoria has some kind of legal custodial arrangement. But they way they have it, Jacinda lost custody of her child for wanting to move to another place and for her child not wanting to spend time with her grandmother. That's utterly ridiculous.

Then there was the nonsense about the fundraiser and trying to frame Henry for theft. Seattle is a pretty lefty/liberal city. There's no way that announcing that the patrons were above suspicion while the staff were going to be searched with no warrant and no probable cause and a man being roughed up and forcibly searched by the police in front of everyone wouldn't have blown up, fast. There would be protests and TV cameras outside within minutes, and not just from the staff posting something to social media. The kind of people who'd pay $500 for a cheesy dance recital in order to help disadvantaged children probably aren't going to be keen on social injustice. Some wealthy and powerful people would have protested this behavior on the spot and called in police, the press, etc. In Seattle, Victoria might find herself up against Melinda Gates. Good luck with that. Talk about wealth and influence. Pulling what he did in front of that crowd would probably have got Weaver fired.

It's hard to take the plights of any of the characters seriously when the situation is so utterly unrealistic that it may as well be taking place in a fairy tale world. The thing about writing contemporary/urban fantasy is that the fantasy part only works if the real-world stuff is utterly grounded in reality.

Also, if you're trying to do some kind of expose on someone, a fantasy novelist is not the writer you want to go to. J.K. Rowling might work for something like that because she's very involved in social causes and politics. But a one-shot midlist fantasy novelist isn't going to give your campaign a lot of credibility unless he previously worked as a journalist and still has some credibility there.

[AudienceofOne]

On 14/10/2017 at 0:13 PM, saoirse said:

Wow. Well, that makes this easy.

I said I wouldn't watch this season because Captain Swan was the only thing that got me through the last two or three. I decided to drop by the forums to at least gauge what people were saying about the first few episodes and... yeah, I'm done here. This show ended with the season 3 finale.

[Camera One]

30 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I haven't heard of too many dance schools that charge for their recitals. They generally consider that the tuition paid all year counts as the "ticket," since the recital is to show off what the students have learned. A recital is basically marketing for the school, letting the parents see their little darlings up on stage, dancing, and making them feel that all the money and time has been worth it, so they'll sign up again. Charging an outrageous price for the recital would pretty much kill the dance school. Even if Victoria paid them off, they still wouldn't have as many students the following year.

I know with adult choirs and recitals, often each member will need to sell a certain number of tickets, since it costs quite a bit to rent a venue.  It would be different for children's recitals.  If both parents come, that's $1100.  If there are 2 siblings, that would be over $2000. 

In the piano recitals for children that I've attended, if there's food, usually, each parent/guardian brings something and it becomes a potluck.  

The Seattle stuff is half the show, and it's appallingly weak.  The first step would have been to establish the actual living arrangements at the moment.  We've never seen Victoria's place, and we've hardly seen Lucy interact with Victoria.  In Season 1, it was easy to see why Regina would be very possessive of Henry.  In this requel, Victoria's actions have no rhyme or reason.  She seems like some ditzy whiny socialite.

It sounds like the Writers don't even remember they're not in Storybrooke half the time, since the characters use the word "town" to describe Seattle (a city) and/or Hyperion Heights (a neighborhood).

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

42 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It's hard to take the plights of any of the characters seriously when the situation is so utterly unrealistic that it may as well be taking place in a fairy tale world. The thing about writing contemporary/urban fantasy is that the fantasy part only works if the real-world stuff is utterly grounded in reality.

Some TV writers seem to be utterly clueless that Fantasy show does not equate to having no in-universe logical continuity. Suspension of Disbelief only works when there is a framework within which the Storyverse functions. It can be explained as magic or pseudoscience, but there need to be some sort of rules that can be extrapolated from the storylines. The writers have utterly defeated the point of setting the reboot in the Real World by such terrible plot holes. Why not make HH actually another small town like Storybrooke? Why set it in the Real World? I don't get it. 

On another note, I kinda fell into a Wish!Hook blackhole and am totally on board with his S7 storyline. I rewatched all the Wish!Hook scenes, and I really gotta say Colin sold the hell out of it. It started as mockingly as in the dreadful S6 Wishverse episode, but both the writing and the acting managed to add so much depth and poignancy to Old Hook. You could tell that he had completely given up and lost himself in drink and despair after what happened with his daughter. So now, Hook/Rogers has a storyline and motivation in Season 7 that's not about pining for Emma or other crap that I was afraid would ruin CS.

The problem is that none of the other storylines are holding my interest. I could care less about Rumple/Weaver. Roni seems so tacked on right now, as Regina's only motivation was that she was apparently lonely in Storybrooke and couldn't find her life fulfilling enough with her job, or by being part of the Charming family unit, with her friendship with Emma, or her sister and niece. It makes it seem like her life is going to be empty until she finds yet another Love Interest, and most likely that will be one of the setups in her HH plotline. I wonder if hers will be the LGBT romance...

None of the new charatcers are interesting to me so far. Maybe Tiana's story will be somewhat interesting. I did like what little we saw of the character. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 hours ago, twoods said:

Didnt recognize Victoria as the actress from Burn Notice. Lana plays evil villain much better, but she's okay.

Even less recognizably, she was Ramandu's Daughter in the original BBC serial of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

[Camera One]

48 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The writers have utterly defeated the point of setting the reboot in the Real World by such terrible plot holes. Why not make HH actually another small town like Storybrooke? Why set it in the Real World? I don't get it. 

Knowing them, they think they are writing gritty cop drama and the real struggles of single mothers working minimum wage jobs and the costs of gentrification.  But in reality, the "big city" aspect of this show is little more than the establishing shots of Seattle.  

They seem to be making a slightly greater effort on bringing the technology up to 2017, what with their version of Uber, and apps to get part-time work.  

It's two episodes in, and as far as we know, the only fairy tale characters living in Hyperion Heights are the characters from Cinderella, and Tiana (and even that was a blink-and-you'd-miss-it cameo at the ball).

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

Not to be a bit nitpicky -- but wouldn't a $500 recital be a little fancier and formal.  Catering aside, it really looked like it was just a normal school recital in front of a group of parents.

[Shanna Marie]

10 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Not to be a bit nitpicky -- but wouldn't a $500 recital be a little fancier and formal.  Catering aside, it really looked like it was just a normal school recital in front of a group of parents.

It looked less fancy than the free recital our local small-town dance studio has in the high school auditorium. They at least have theatrical lighting and real theater seats instead of folding or stacking chairs.

26 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's two episodes in, and as far as we know, the only fairy tale characters living in Hyperion Heights are the characters from Cinderella, and Tiana (and even that was a blink-and-you'd-miss-it cameo at the ball).

That's where keeping the secret of who cast the curse is working against them. It worked with curse 2 because by then we already knew the characters and we'd seen the first curse, so they could play with our expectations. Here, we have mostly new characters, so we don't know enough about the characters and their situation to get a sense of who the characters are, who cast the curse, and what they hoped to achieve with it. In season one, we had a lot of group scenes in the flashbacks of the pilot, and we had Henry pointing out which person was which character. So far in this season, Lucy hasn't told us who anyone other than Cinderella and her stepmother are, and we haven't seen anyone in the flashbacks. We don't know if Lucy has memories or is just piecing it all together from the book.

There's potential for something interesting if she doesn't have memories and figures out that Rogers is Captain Hook and Henry's stepfather who needs to be reunited with Emma, and they don't realize until the curse breaks that he's not the Hook from the book.

[Camera One]

LOL, I just googled "Lucy's ballet recital" and I saw lots of recitals that didn't cost $550 where the dancers would actually have space on the stage to do ballet.

I love those leftover stacks of chairs near the stage.  

Edited October 15, 2017 by Camera One

[Souris]

On 10/14/2017 at 2:48 PM, SiobhanJW said:

Have their been rumors of Jen & Lana not getting along? I thought they liked each other? 

I'm honestly not sure how much of this is rumors and how much is speculation. I think it's mostly speculation based on people's observations. I always figured they were co-workers who worked together fine but weren't pals outside of the set and would never choose to hang out together -- their personalities are clearly very different. Nothing unusual there, as pretty much everybody has co-workers who are simply co-workers, whereas other co-workers they'd call friends. But there have been a few things that make people go "hmmm" -- for instance, when some fans were pressing Jen on Twitter to post more of the pics she's taken of herself and Lana, Jen replied "you have them all." And another time when Lana was livestreaming at the upfronts and pointed her phone at Jen, Jen about-faced and walked away. And they never would have photo duos at cons, and now only appear at the same con on different days. Probably all open to interpretation, and there could be various explanations, but I do now rather get the sense that they aren't exactly close.

[Rumsy4]

IMO, Lana has thrown JMo under the bus a couple of times to win points with her fans. The rabid part of the SQ fans have harassed Jen a lot. It's not Lana's fault that they do, but Lana has tended to pander to her SQ fans (even over her OQ fans who were less in number). I'm not saying CS fans never harassed the actors, but the harassment from crazy SQers has been relentless and going on for years. 

Plus, Lana has influenced certain storylines for Regina that have negatively affected Emma's storylines. There was con a couple of years ago where Lana was boasting about how she had successfully argued for Regina to have a better relationship with Henry, and how dare Emma waltz in a decide to take away her bio son from his adopted mother, etc.. So that could've been a point of contention as well. And maybe there was some professional resentment over the importance being given to Regina, and the amount of pandering Emma has had to do to Regina in recent seasons.

[WatchrTina]

Okay, I today learned (by reading this board) that Swan/Queen shipping is a thing and that the two actors who play Swan and Queen don't like each other, won't appear at cons together, and had to be photoshopped into each other's scenes in tonight ep.

Wow.  That's just . . . wow.

I think I'm glad was I never very active in this fandom and was therefore oblivious to all that.  I just popped in to say I love Colin O'Donoghue and as long as he's willing to keep putting on the guy-liner and leather jacket, I'll keep tuning in (though I'm a bit sad that it's not Emma's Hook that he'll be playing.)

Edited October 16, 2017 by WatchrTina

[tessaray]

40 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Okay, today learned (by reading this board) that Swan/Queen shipping is a thing and that the two actors who play Swan and Queen don't like each other, won't appear at cons together, and had to be photoshopped into each other's scenes in tonight ep.

Well, the SQ shippers are real but the rest is speculation, as far as I know.  This episode could have just involved shooting schedules that didn't match up. 

If the actors didn't care for one another, I appreciate that it didn't affect the show like some others I've seen.  (And by affect the show, I mean the performances we saw on-screen.)

[KAOS Agent]

They went to extra time and expense to film the same scene on different days to accommodate something. It may have been that Lana had something super important going on on the only days Jen was available for filming, but that seems questionable given that Lana is under contract to be available and this show's new budget constraints. 

I assume that Jen and Lana don't have any particular problems with each other. They may not particularly care for the other, but I doubt that  would keep them from filming one last group scene. I think Jen is just done with the awful harassment that comes her way anytime she's seen anywhere around Lana or not seen with Lana or really anytime she does anything remotely involving Lana. Check out the nastiness currently heading Jen's way from these "fans" on social media and I can understand why Jen wants nothing to do with any of it. It's a bonus if her negotiating power means that she can spike these idiots by not rewarding them with anything remotely like what they demand.

Edited October 16, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Noneofyourbusiness]

They've made Henry not only dim enough that he has to ask if a bar with a sign outside that says "Roni's" is Roni's, but that he doesn't recognize Hook's handwriting.

[Camera One]

Don't forget the "Huh?  My keys?  I took the bus today."  Did he have the apron on when he left the apartment?

[asabovesobelow]

11 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

IMO, Lana has thrown JMo under the bus a couple of times to win points with her fans. The rabid part of the SQ fans have harassed Jen a lot. It's not Lana's fault that they do, but Lana has tended to pander to her SQ fans (even over her OQ fans who were less in number). I'm not saying CS fans never harassed the actors, but the harassment from crazy SQers has been relentless and going on for years. 

I disagreed about the fandom dynamics as usual, but you know what, forget it. The SQ/CS drama is played out. It's over. 'Ship and let 'ship.

Edited October 16, 2017 by asabovesobelow

[Rumsy4]

So, why haven't any of the return characters (other than Henry) aged? The time-works-differently element was not mentioned at all, so that wasn't used to explain why Emma, Regina, and Killian looked the same age as in S6 when adult Henry called for their aid. At least 5 years must have passed between Henry leaving Storybrooke and meeting Alt!Cinderella, and if he was 18 when he left Sb, that adds a few more years since the S6 finale (was he 14 then?). So, until further notice, I'm going to assume that time flows the same as anywhere else in Cinders' Realm. So when they meet adult Henry in alt EF, Emma and Hook would've been in their late 30s, and Regina in her 40s (she's at least 5-10 years older than Snow).

By the time the new trio of Henry, Regina, and Wish Hook have been cursed to Seattle, at least another 10 years should have passed. So, why aren't Regina and Wish Hook older-looking in HH? They presumably spent all of the last ten years with Henry, and in the mean time Henry has an 8 (?) year old daughter. By all counts, Regina ought to be looking to be in her 50s, and Wish Hook in his 40s, by my estimation. I assume Henry is in his early 30s. Did they find a convenient dragon egg shell to retain their youthful good looks? Or was it regular juice fasts?