S02.E03: Déjà Vu

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

She could have amassed big savings from working for Kevin, but expenses pile up fast and are unrelenting, all the while having virtually no new income added into the pot for most of a year now.  Her situation seems unrealistic to me.  Kevin's, too.  Randall I can imagine having made shrewd investments over the years, what with his line of work and mathematical and predictive propensities, plus Beth works.  I think they all suffer from impulsivity, though, and pretty much skate from serious consequences.  Unlike the rest of us mortals.

By the time I was 37, I think I had a year and a half's salary amassed.  Obviously, that's not a lifetime nest egg, nor would I ever be like OK, I don't need a job.  But, I don't find it that odd that Toby and Kate can be OK for a year or so. Especially since they've moved in together, I think.  And, do we know Toby's not working? I hadn't given it much thought.

[jumper sage]

I'M OUT!  OUT I TELL YOU!

I can't take one more week of this crap.  I don't enjoy seeing characters so totally damaged and yet their mother is the ray of sunshine that burns them.  All these characters needed to be in therapy years ago.

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

She was Kevin's personal assistant for probably more than 10 years and I'm sure he paid her well.

I a, pretty sure she was only Kevin's assistant for a few years, prior to that she was the assistant to some high powered fellow that she was in love with and Kevin gave her an out because it wasn't a healthy situation. Also, Kevin's big break was The Manny which since they just reached their 100 episode mark a year after he left means he was only making a lot of money for about 4 years, before getting The Manny it's doubtful he could have afforded an assistant.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

By the time I was 37, I think I had a year and a half's salary amassed.  Obviously, that's not a lifetime nest egg, nor would I ever be like OK, I don't need a job.  But, I don't find it that odd that Toby and Kate can be OK for a year or so. Especially since they've moved in together, I think.  And, do we know Toby's not working? I hadn't given it much thought.

What does Toby do for a living?  Do we know?

With all due respect, you are telling us what you did in your own life, and that's perfectly fine.  What frustrates me is that we don't know what is going on in these character's lives.  @Blakeston made a comment about how a simple line from Kate would solve a lot of the wondering...as in, "I saved a lot of money when I was working for Kevin."  Okay, great!  Now the viewers can have some understanding of how a 37-year old woman decides to not work and tries a singing career.  But we don't know.  We saw her working as a personal assistant for a hot minute before she quit (which I thought she did based on a comment about her size, but I could be wrong).  Since then, she's decided to become a singer.  But what is she living on?  What does she do all day?  I'm not asking for a schedule of her daily activities, but if we are to believe in this character, we need a few concrete facts to hold onto.  Regarding Kate - I have nothing.  She worked, now she doesn't.  She went to a weight-loss camp - now we hear about her dropping two dress sizes, but we don't know how (and given that her weight is a big part of her storyline, we actually should know).  Now she kind of pops up here and there, has a chemistry-free relationship with Toby, and that's kind of all I know about her as an adult.  I have no idea of who she is supposed to be or why I am supposed to care about her.

When I think of this show, I feel like I am looking at a pencil sketch of each character.  By now, I need a more colorful painting.  We are being asked to fill in the blanks based on our own lives.  Since the show isn't telling us, we have to almost write the story along with Fogelman and his crew.  That's lazy story-telling, IMO.

Edited October 16, 2017 by laurakaye

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

she quit (which I thought she did based on a comment about her size, but I could be wrong).

No, they worked that out.  She quit because Kevin wanted her to stay out in NY to help him when she came home for Thanksgiving.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I feel like I am looking at a pencil sketch of each character.

Except Jack.  He's not even alive and we get incredible detail on him.  TMI even, sometimes.  

Playing writers' advocate... Kate and Toby moved in together so Kate doesn't need much income, giving her the freedom to try singing.  Toby has some 'not yet worth mentioning' (or not yet written) job which he telecommuted from the east coast to do for a few months.  Or, like so many tv characters, he's conveniently self-employed in some way that he can virtually never have to go to work yet the income rolls in.  

I kind of forgive this lack of detail, given how many more important things could be addressed, like how is Kate losing weight.  Heh.  I do want to know!  And I know it's tough in an ensemble show to have everyone have stories and a realistic life.  Which is kind of why I wish they'd just let the dead go, eventually.  

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

What does Toby do for a living?  Do we know?

Mystery solved - he is an IT guy.

[NutMeg]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, do we know Toby's not working? I hadn't given it much thought.

Neither it seems have the writers!

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

When I think of this show, I feel like I am looking at a pencil sketch of each character.  By now, I need a more colorful painting.  We are being asked to fill in the blanks based on our own lives.  Since the show isn't telling us, we have to almost write the story along with Fogelman and his crew.  That's lazy story-telling, IMO.

Oh gosh, yes, absolutely. Filling the blanks was fine for a while, but it can't be what the show is about, can it?

[debraran]

9 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Neither it seems have the writers!

Oh gosh, yes, absolutely. Filling the blanks was fine for a while, but it can't be what the show is about, can it?

I think once Jack is officially gone, although he's gone from the beginning, the characters will become more dimensional. I think that big gaps in their lives which would lead to them talking about Jack's death and how they lost things in the fire or any emotionally disturbing or even nice events, are blurred through the lens of "what killed Jack?" Just the fact that the fire or losing things isn't mentioned, Mom's marriage, college, etc. and they are older, is all because if they show too much, they have to fill in more gaps. So the characters to me, are sometimes immature, sometimes, based on the kids we see, there isn't "I'm an adult now, I'm in my 30's", it's I'm emotionally bruised, hate my mother, can't have a relationship, etc.  It's like they go from teens to 30-something because they can't show us any in between.

I hope for more growth later in the season.

[Guest]

That's a good point.  We see them at around age 12, 17 and 37.  So the bulk of their lives is left out... that 20 year span in the middle.  

[Portia]

I don't have time to read all six pages, so please forgive me if someone has already ranted on this topic. I am seriously pissed at how ham-handedly the writers hit us over the head with the "deja vu" wordplay. When watching the episode, I had no idea what its title was. However, I immediately took note that the new foster kid was named Deja because it's an unusual name and I happen to have a student with that name this semester.  (Hers is spelled Daeja, but she pronounces it the same.) After a few minutes, I said, "Ooh! Ooh!" and paused the show to tell my husband, "That name is symbolic! Like deja vu!" Then he and took note of all the echoes that were taking place in the plot.  If the writers had just left it at that--naming the character Deja--it would have been a lovely detail operating just as good symbolism operates: you can still enjoy the work if you don't pick up on it, but if you do notice it, your enjoyment of the work is enhanced.  But of course the writers had to go and hang a big old lampshade on it in Randall's conversation with Deja.  I HATE IT when writers treat the audience like we're idiots.  When I saw that they had even gone so far as to title the episode "Deja Vu," I threw up a little.

I had sworn I was going to ditch the show after Season 1, but damn it, I'm still here.

[laurakaye]

@Portia...I did notice the play on her name, but I pretty much just did an eye-roll and thought, "aw, the writers are playing at being cute."  I didn't think about all of the "echoes" but now that I see it - yeah, us viewers are pretty slow.  We need to be smacked upside the head once in awhile, because this show is so deep and all.

/eyeroll

[Lady Calypso]

56 minutes ago, Portia said:

I don't have time to read all six pages, so please forgive me if someone has already ranted on this topic. I am seriously pissed at how ham-handedly the writers hit us over the head with the "deja vu" wordplay. When watching the episode, I had no idea what its title was. However, I immediately took note that the new foster kid was named Deja because it's an unusual name and I happen to have a student with that name this semester.  (Hers is spelled Daeja, but she pronounces it the same.) After a few minutes, I said, "Ooh! Ooh!" and paused the show to tell my husband, "That name is symbolic! Like deja vu!" Then he and took note of all the echoes that were taking place in the plot.  If the writers had just left it at that--naming the character Deja--it would have been a lovely detail operating just as good symbolism operates: you can still enjoy the work if you don't pick up on it, but if you do notice it, your enjoyment of the work is enhanced.  But of course the writers had to go and hang a big old lampshade on it in Randall's conversation with Deja.  I HATE IT when writers treat the audience like we're idiots.  When I saw that they had even gone so far as to title the episode "Deja Vu," I threw up a little.

I had sworn I was going to ditch the show after Season 1, but damn it, I'm still here.

Yeah, they really wanted a theme to go on with Deja Vu. I suspect even Kevin's storyline, with his addiction to pain meds resurfacing (again, assuming we take the end scene at face value) is sort of playing off of the episode name as well. 

I did feel like the Deja Vu conversation with Randall/Deja was too forced. I was fine with Randall/Beth saying 'Like Deja vu' in their first scene, but Randall's speech felt forced in order to fit the theme. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:33 PM, Neurochick said:

Very true, but why would Randall’s daughters know what it’s like to be dehumanized?

Exactly. I think the scene where Deja came into the girls' room to ask about the household pretty much nails their innocence - she's asking about what happens when you break the rules, and they're talking about losing iPad privileges. It seemed pretty clear that Deja wanted to know if someone would beat or otherwise hurt her, but Annie and Tess had NO idea.

Aside from that - anyone else wonder how the family was approved to foster, considering Randall's recent mental breakdown? I mean, it literally JUST happened, and it was the result of stress. Having a foster child, especially when you've never dealt with one before, will no doubt be very stressful. But no one even mentioned this being an issue.

[Trillian]

On 2017-10-16 at 10:24 AM, Blakeston said:

I've always assumed that Kate has all of his ashes. I can't imagine the writers turning down a chance to remind us that Kate was Jack's favorite.

Memphis, about 9 minutes in. Randall tells William "Kate has his ashes, but we spread some of them near a tree at his favourite park". 

[ShadowFacts]

On 10/18/2017 at 7:32 PM, Trillian said:

Memphis, about 9 minutes in. Randall tells William "Kate has his ashes, but we spread some of them near a tree at his favourite park". 

Good memory you have, Trillian.  It got me to thinking, in a road trip from New Jersey to Memphis, Pittsburgh is quite a bit off the path.  Unless Jack's favorite park was not in Pittsburgh at all.  They did have that cabin in an unspecified place, maybe it was near the cabin. 

[spaceghostess]

On 10/11/2017 at 2:08 AM, candall said:

I'm SO disappointed you didn't ask about the song when they were about to make out in the car.  It was grit in my brain gears for an hour before I finally came up with "Why Judy Why" from Billy Joel's first album.  Come on, you wanted to know that, too, didn't you??

I never thought that I would need, need a friend . . .
 

I thought this was an interesting choice, from an album ("Cold Spring Harbor") that Joel hated because the tracks were mistakenly recorded too high, making him "sound like a chipmunk". "She's Got a Way" is from that album, although the radio version is one he re-recorded. I've always liked it because I think it has some really good songs, including the title track; it was a flop when it was released in 1971, though. Was it on the radio, or was Rebecca playing a tape?

[candall]

4 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

I thought this was an interesting choice, from an album ("Cold Spring Harbor") that Joel hated because the tracks were mistakenly recorded too high, making him "sound like a chipmunk". "She's Got a Way" is from that album, although the radio version is one he re-recorded. I've always liked it because I think it has some really good songs, including the title track; it was a flop when it was released in 1971, though. Was it on the radio, or was Rebecca playing a tape?

It was supposed to be the radio, and I think that version was from the 1983 re-release.  

After Billy Joel got famous for Piano Man, he had the $$ and pull to have the entire Cold Spring Harbor album re-mastered and re-issued at the correct speed.

I'm a little obsessed with the Cold Spring Harbor story.   Imagine that you've written a dozen beautiful songs, someone has recognized your talent and signed you to an album deal . . . and then somehow it hits the stores with every note too high and too fast and there's a chipmunk effect.  It flops and you're back to Square One.

You'd think the fact that he hung in there, kept trying and ultimately became mega-famous would be a story every struggling artist knows by heart and clings to for encouragement and perseverance.

Sorry for getting carried away.  Back to the show.

[Daisy]

I fractured my ankle so i am just binging on this show.
I'm not even going to lie. i fully assumed the show to go reverse big three and Beth and Randall's foster kid would be white. 

[sara416]

I don't have time to read all the pages right now (I usually do, i swear) and I am catching up on the last three episodes. I have one giant problem with this episode. As someone who has worked in foster care and with foster families and children for years, the minute Randall told Deja about her mother I literally screamed at the TV "NOT YOUR JOB!".  A case manager could have and would have told them the same thing. The classes that a family has to take to become a foster parent would emphasize that as well. The information the Pearsons get about their foster child should be minimal, as well as any information they get about the bio family. I have worked with foster parents who definitely should have received more information than they were given. But it is NEVER the job of the foster parent to talk to the kid about their bio family and the circumstances that brought them into care. Ugh. I get why they did it, for plot reasons, but it just irritated me so much. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/10/2017 at 11:26 PM, Artsda said:

I found the younger Rebecca and Miguel's wife lunch eating scene to seem more modern than 20 years ago. Sipping wine, eating a big salad at an outdoor patio? I remembered it wasn't present time when I saw the car Rebecca was driving to "Jack Pearson" Jack.

2

Was there something wrong with Rebecca's lunch scene that I missed? I don't always catch the little snafus. 

On 10/11/2017 at 7:42 AM, DeepPoet117 said:

If Deja really has spent her life in and out of foster care, Randall's speech about how he was adopted as an infant to an awesome family should have been met with a lot more scorn, imo. And then to immediately go into telling her that her mom wouldn't be getting out of jail anytime soon? A bit not good, Randall. 

1

I didn't like Randall's handling of this either.  I know he thought he could connect with a foster child because of his own experience and I'm reminded that he wanted to adopt an infant from a different ethnic background. Beth is the one who wanted to foster an older child. But since Randall has agreed to do this, he's going to have to throw out his assumptions. His own issues about being adopted come from identity issues. Rebecca & Jack had issues but repeat arrests that meant their kids had to be bounced around to different foster homes - not even close to that. Deja seems to have exposed to some type of abuse.  Again, Randall's situation isn't even close to that. Plus, he's never experienced foster care.  Not to say that you have to have the same experiences in order to be a good foster parent, and I know he tried to bond with her, but he should really just try to get to know her and not force the I've-been-where-you-are speech when he hasn't.  That picture that Deja smashed was a picture of a loving family - identity issues and all. 

On 10/11/2017 at 9:03 AM, Blakeston said:

I thought it was a terrible move for Randall and Beth to be the ones to break it to Deja that her mother is probably getting a serious prison sentence, so soon after she arrives at their house.

She needed to know, but I still think it was rushed. The way Deja speaks about her mom makes me think she loves her mom a whole lot and that her getting arrested repeatedly is just par for the course in her life. And she might be defensive, too. 

On 10/11/2017 at 9:36 AM, watcher1006 said:

I have never been a social worker but I wonder a  bit about the criteria for foster placement. Is it the best idea to place a troubled teen or tween from a difficult family situation who has been in foster care numerous times into a super-affluent home with children younger than she is? Maybe it's hard to place Deja anywhere but Beth and Randall's house won't be an easy place to adjust to.

 

The foster care system is a sad mess and some of the kids in the system never adjust to the homes, no matter what. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the foster family - the kids themselves have a whole set of issues. And then, there are those foster parents who foster for the money and treat the kids like crap. Beth & Randall have more pros & cons, even given Deja's age, especially because of their willingness. 

On 10/11/2017 at 9:43 AM, ChromaKelly said:

I didn't hate the foster kid storyline the way I thought I would. I liked the actress, and I'll second the comment that the little girls are adorable without being precocious. If Randall and Beth were real people, I'd steer them towards some foster/adopt Facebook groups for advice.
I almost like the kid versions of the Big Three more than the adults.
I did like having a Kevin storyline that wasn't just about his relationship to either Kate or Randall, it was just about him.
It's not advised, mostly the foster child being older than the children in the home. But yeah, there's a shortage and Beth and Randall would certainly not be turned down. 

2

I agree, the age isn't enough to keep the agency from placing Deja with Beth & Randall. She could be waiting a long time for someone suitable. 

On 10/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, Haleth said:

Or to place a troubled almost teen with a first time foster family. I understand there is a shortage but to toss this girl into a family that has never had to care for a child with this history doesn't seem ideal for anyone.  How much instruction/training are potential foster parents given?  It's such an enormous responsibility. 

1

As sad and extreme as it seems, this setup is pretty normal. The social worker has a family who's ready/willing/able to foster an almost teen, who has space, has met all the other requirements, and who don't have so many preferences. Many foster parents only want kids who are younger than Deja, or don't have the space for a kid of a certain age/gender, or only want to foster kids they could possibly later adopt. It's an enormous responsibility but I'm sure those two will do everything they can to be the best foster parents they can be. In my state, there's a lot of required training. But you still have to be dedicated to learn & grow beyond that mandatory training. It's not easy at all. 

On 10/11/2017 at 11:44 AM, lovetowrite73 said:

Was it her first night in the house though? I thought the social worker said that she'd send the full case file once she got it. Would she have gotten it on the first day? I'm just wondering.

Seeing Deja's plastic bag full of her belongings reminded me of a charity that I support and the reality of foster kids traveling from home to home with just that. The charity has you decorate bags for foster children so they can at least have their things in something decent. The plastic bag was all too real. :(

 

I didn't know such a charity existed. I remember my first fostering experience and how my heart broke when I saw that flimsy plastic bag. I'm really glad the show depicted that. Actually, I'm glad they're depicting the foster care system at all. I've known characters on other shows who had grown up as foster kids, but I have never seen a show depict actual foster parents. 

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Was there something wrong with Rebecca's lunch scene that I missed? I don't always catch the little snafus. 

My guess is that the OP thought that people didn't lunch on outdoor restaurant terraces eating big salads while sipping on wine back in 1996. Which....I just really have to respectfully disagree with that nitpick. I feel like other than fashion, you could have had that scene taking place in 1966.  There's nothing particularly modern about any of that. Now, if they were eating kale salads, sipping on microbrews at the local beer garden, and taking selfies with their big kale salads to post on Twitter, then I could see the modernity. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by methodwriter85

[PRgal]

I know a woman named Desia.  I thought Deja's name was Desia for a bit!