Season 4 Talk

[OtterMommy]

Season 4 starts October 3!

[Sew Sumi]

I swear I started a season thread before this one! 

At any rate, I found this episode heartwrentching and loved the "we're cousins!" twist at the end, especially given how few of their familiy members survived. 

[shapeshifter]

Henry Louis Gates Jr. would never be considered an impressionist, but he certainly reflected back to each of these two very different personalities their own sentiments, and he did so without any sense of judgement. I guess that's what draws in the audience.

Anyway, it bugged me that even though both Bernie and Henry seemed to use the word "plunder" as a euphemism for rape, many viewers would interpret it to mean that their ancestors were just robbed of possessions.

[plurie]

I'm pretty sure the "mulatto" slaves of Larry David's ancestor were his children (or the children of another male relative). I'm surprised that Gates didn't bring this up.

[shapeshifter]

32 minutes ago, plurie said:

I'm pretty sure the "mulatto" slaves of Larry David's ancestor were his children (or the children of another male relative). I'm surprised that Gates didn't bring this up.

But without more information it would just be speculation—which is itself a reason for the lack of recorded information for slaves.

[BusyOctober]

I really enjoyed this one.  I like Larry David and Bernie Sanders, so that probably biased me in a way. Even though I was 'spoiled' about the DNA distant cousin thing, I was grinning like an idiot when the pages were flipped.  Prof Gates was right - the German/Alabama slave owning ancestors could be a 'Curb' story line because it's just so out there.

I couldn't help compare LD's reaction to Ben Affleck's upon discovering slave owners in the family tree.  LD handled it the way I think most 21st century people would. We'd be embarrassed, or feel guilty. No one wants to hear that news.  But LD allowed the audience to hear and see it while Ben Affleck tried to bury it.  I don't think anyone in the audience would decide to cut a present day person from their life because of actions some distant 4xGG did, so I'm not sure why BA felt that historical fact needed to be expunged from his record.  It happened, it was a horrible period of our collective history, and you weren't there to participate in those abhorrent but socially accepted behaviors  Learn from it, educate future generations about what you learned.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

But without more information it would just be speculation—which is itself a reason for the lack of recorded information for slaves.

Speculation is the calling card of most genealogy series on TV, and certainly this one has engaged in their fair share of it. I was surprised that Gates didn't suggest that the mulatto children were the children of their owner.

Quote

Henry Louis Gates Jr. would never be considered an impressionist, but he certainly reflected back to each of these two very different personalities their own sentiments, and he did so without any sense of judgement.

I noticed that as well, and for me, that is not typical of him in this series (which is the only thing I've ever seen him do on TV).  He is generally pedantic, and has an agenda of certain facts he wants to present, regardless of the guest and their needs.

I laughed when Larry David yelled something like "you did it"  when he was informed that his ancestors owned slaves.  I've always been surprised that Gates didn't find something that connected Ming Tsai to slave ownership in the south. 

[ALittleBitWelsh]

I always use superlatives when I talk about this show because I love it so much but I think last night was the best episode of Finding Your Roots yet. Henry Louis Gates seems to instinctively know what questions to ask to make the conversations interesting but doesn’t try to force any particular reaction from the people the show features. If you ask me, this is one of the best shows on television. 

[Enigma X]

This is hands down my favorite show on tv.

 

I am hoping to be able to watch the show Tonight.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I was surprised that Gates didn't suggest that the mulatto children were the children of their owner.

It's really sad to think there were no other records for them. 
After Bernie Sanders' Judenrat uncle turned out to be a hero instead of a schmuck (which would be the first assumption), I guess I just wanted Larry David's ancestors' slaves to turn out to have been treated better than usual.

Edited October 4, 2017 by shapeshifter

[HazelEyes4325]

8 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

Speculation is the calling card of most genealogy series on TV, and certainly this one has engaged in their fair share of it. I was surprised that Gates didn't suggest that the mulatto children were the children of their owner.

As far as I remember, the only times that Gates has gone down that road was when the guest was African American and their DNA test showed that they had some European ancestry.  In this case, there was no way that they could make any DNA tie unless they were somehow able to track down the direct descendants of the slaves in question, do a DNA test on them, and then compare them to David's DNA.  I think to make the suggestion that the children were the offspring of the father is a step too far into speculation, given the information available.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by Morksmate

[Cupcake04]

I was flipping stations last night and happened to catch the last 10 minutes. I love both of these guys and was so astonished and happy to see they are cousins! I just went looking for this episode on DirecTV on demand and they don't have it and it is not airing again where I can record it. Does anyone know where I can get the full episode? I am dying to see the whole thing. I already set dvr for future episodes but really wanna see this one!

Edited October 5, 2017 by Cupcake04

[sskrill]

I rarely get to see this show but noticed it last night - glad I caught it.  

I laughed my ass of when he told Larry Alabama - and fought for the confederacy.  If you had given me 100 guesses to a weird plot twist, I would not have come up with that.

I also thought the slaves were his but I don't blame them for not speculating about it when there's no way to find proof - or at least if they weren't planning on following up to get the proof.

[Enigma X]

18 minutes ago, Cupcake04 said:

I was flipping stations last night and happened to catch the last 10 minutes. I love both of these guys and was so astonished and happy to see they are cousins! I just went looking for this episode on DirecTV on demand and they don't have it and it is not airing again where I can record it. Does anyone know where I can get the full episode? I am dying to see the whole thing. I already set dvr for future episodes but really wanna see this one!

I just watched online on PBS's website.

 

Very entertaining. Very educating. Loved it.

[Driad]

You can watch at http://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/home/

And Superfein is a cool name.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Cupcake04 said:

I was flipping stations last night and happened to catch the last 10 minutes. I love both of these guys and was so astonished and happy to see they are cousins! I just went looking for this episode on DirecTV on demand and they don't have it and it is not airing again where I can record it. Does anyone know where I can get the full episode? I am dying to see the whole thing. I already set dvr for future episodes but really wanna see this one!

Also, if you use a streaming device (Apple TV, Roku, Amazon, etc), there is a free PBS app that will have it. 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Cupcake04 said:

so astonished and happy to see they are cousins!

I wasn't. They would be my cousins too. One finds out about such oddities when one's inheritance consists mostly of life-shortening inherited diseases that make your spit a hot commodity on the genetic studies circuit. Since this makes me sound like more of a crackpot than I am, you can read about it in layman's terms here or in scholarly prose in a 2014 article in the journal Nature Communications. Basically, we would be 30th cousins. But I have 1st cousins I've never met, so I'm not expecting a family reunion anytime soon.

[Cupcake04]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I wasn't. They would be my cousins too. One finds out about such oddities when one's inheritance consists mostly of life-shortening inherited diseases that make your spit a hot commodity on the genetic studies circuit. Since this makes me sound like more of a crackpot than I am, you can read about it in layman's terms here or in scholarly prose in a 2014 article in the journal Nature Communications. Basically, we would be 30th cousins. But I have 1st cousins I've never met, so I'm not expecting a family reunion anytime soon.

Thanks for bursting my bubble! lol

Thanks everyone for where to find this episode. I will have to watch on ipad...still bummed I cant get on big screen tv.

[Blergh]

Considering that both Messrs. David and Sanders had 97% Ashkenazic Jewish ancestry AND both had at least one parent who lineage hailed from the former Austro- Hungarian region of Galicia, it didn't come as a surprise that they wound up being related to each other (not to mention that they do have a certain resemblance) .  Yes, it's horrific that both men's families who didn't emigrate to the US appear to have been wiped out by the Holocaust but that, sadly is also not a surprise. However; good for Senator Sanders' great-uncle for being willing to literally put his life on the line to try to spare come of his fellow colleagues knowing he'd likely pay the ultimate price.

Now I'm wondering if one or both Larry David's Confederate great-great-grandfather's listed 'mulato' slaves might have been his own offspring which would mean that if they survived to have progeny, it's possible that Larry David could have   African-American cousins. I'd also like to know that story of how Mr. David's Alabama-born great-grandmother moved to the New York area and whether her own parents were upset with her marrying a Yankee even if he was also Jewish. 

[ShelleySue]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

16 hours ago, Cupcake04 said:

so astonished and happy to see they are cousins!

I wasn't. They would be my cousins too. One finds out about such oddities when one's inheritance consists mostly of life-shortening inherited diseases that make your spit a hot commodity on the genetic studies circuit. Since this makes me sound like more of a crackpot than I am, you can read about it in layman's terms here or in scholarly prose in a 2014 article in the journal Nature Communications. Basically, we would be 30th cousins. But I have 1st cousins I've never met, so I'm not expecting a family reunion anytime soon.

I'm even less surprised.  Jewish genealogy is full of endogamy .  On ancestry DNA I have 8,201 matches that are fourth cousins or closer. My husband has 291.  Both of those numbers are very common for our individual ethnicities (Jewish and non-Jewish English/German).  I have cousins I can identify as being on my father's side who are also related to cousins on my mother's side.  I bet that I'm related to both Bernie Sanders and Larry David too. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by ShelleySue
clarification

[shapeshifter]

Hey cuz @ShelleySue! *waves*

[2727]

What a great episode! Bernie and Larry were enormous fun to watch; both in their humor and self-reflective honesty. I can see why PBS led off with this one.

I automatically start weeping whenever Jewish celebrities are on, knowing what's coming. No wonder indeed that Bernie's and Larry's relatives pretty much refused to discuss their pasts. Lock that shit down and get on with it.

Who knows how many people have registered at 23 and Me, but out of that number, I have almost 1600 DNA relatives. Both my parents were only children, but I have 3 second cousins rattling around. It's crazy to think about.

Edited October 5, 2017 by 2727

[Blergh]

I understood why Mr. David's and Senator Sanders's respective parents refused to talk about their family histories. I recall a poignant episode of the show that I was one of the few to watch/like called "Brooklyn Bridge" in which the protagonist's immigrant grandmother (played by, of all folks, Marion Ross in IMO her BEST role) absolutely refused to discuss the Holocaust- even when her nephew a Holocaust survivor (played by Joel Grey) came to visit and   broached the subject.  Point being that she (and others) considered what had happened so horrific that not only did they not want to think about it but they hoped they could spare the younger generation from having to consider humanity was capable of it.

 

 On a lighter note, I found it amusing that Mr. David's mother hated her original name of Regina to change it to Rose. The former means 'queen' but I suppose that someone tastelessly rhymed it with something anatomical when she got to NYC that got her cringing. 

[millk]

I laughed at Regina just thinking of the Mulva episode of Seinfeld.

[Snarklepuss]

On 10/5/2017 at 0:40 PM, ShelleySue said:

I'm even less surprised.  Jewish genealogy is full of endogamy .  On ancestry DNA I have 8,201 matches that are fourth cousins or closer. My husband has 291.  Both of those numbers are very common for our individual ethnicities (Jewish and non-Jewish English/German).  I have cousins I can identify as being on my father's side who are also related to cousins on my mother's side.  I bet that I'm related to both Bernie Sanders and Larry David too. 

I bet I am too.  I am 25% Ashkenazi Jewish on my father's side and I also come up with amazing numbers of pretty close cousins on DNA sites.  Plus my Jewish relatives also lived in Brooklyn.  But then I read this article which claims that due to something called "endogamy", traditional methods of predicting relationships using DNA results predict a closer relationship between Jews than might actually be the case.  It does answer a lot of questions I've had about this for a long time.  I'm 75% non-Jewish so I know how relatively frustrating it is to find out anything about my Jewish side via DNA when I've had success on my other side.  The article says that for any predicted relationship further out than 2nd cousin, the results aren't as accurate for Jews.   It also explains why I don't recognize any of the surnames of the so-called matches on the Jewish side either, and why I supposedly have so many Jewish cousins listed when I'm only 25% Jewish.  So when those sites predict cousin relationships greater than 2nd cousin I am now taking it with a grain of salt.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Snarklepuss
Math correction.

[shapeshifter]

On October 5, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Blergh said:

On a lighter note, I found it amusing that Mr. David's mother hated her original name of Regina to change it to Rose. The former means 'queen' but I suppose that someone tastelessly rhymed it with something anatomical when she got to NYC that got her cringing. 

That seems unlikely to me for that era. I just assumed she wanted a more American-sounding, more WASPy name. I always knew my grandmother's name was Rebecca, but census records show it was Rivka. My father said the only language permitted in the home was English, even though it was his older sisters' fifth language.

[Snarklepuss]

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That seems unlikely to me for that era. I just assumed she wanted a more American-sounding, more WASPy name. I always knew my grandmother's name was Rebecca, but census records show it was Rivka. My father said the only language permitted in the home was English, even though it was his older sisters' fifth language.

I took the change as an attempt to make her name sound more Jewish since I've never known any Jewish woman with the name Regina but the name Rose was fairly popular among Jews in NYC around that time.

[Blergh]

shapeshifter,

 

 There were less openly rude folks back then than nowadays but they've always existed and it would only take ONE rude person to try to rhyme the original name in her presence.  Actually, I agree with Snarklepuss re a possible reason.  Too bad she didn't even mention that she'd changed it to her son (and one has to wonder if she actually legally changed it or did she simply start signing EVERYTHING 'Rose' and count on folks not bothering to verify whether it was her original name).

[attica]

Lots of possible reasons David's mom changed her name. Maybe Rose was a nickname that everybody used, and when she came to the US, she figured that she'd go with it for realsies. Maybe Regina was a name too close to somebody being persecuted and she wanted to be incognito. Maybe there was a spare passport/visa in the name of Rose who couldn't go, so she'd use it instead. Emigration is a great time to reinvent oneself.

I was really moved by the story of Bernie's uncle in the Judenrat. That's got to be the most perniciously cunning tactic of a genocidal occupier: to turn the despised group upon itself by giving the hope of self-rule that answered only to the invaders. The weak would use it to butter up to those in power, the strong would naively think they could help their people, that the mere existence of the group demonstrated some fairness in the invaders. And they were wrong, all of them. They just made it easier to the despised population to be controlled and exterminated.

[riverblue22]

Actually I was a little surprised at the name Regina.  I always thought of that as a Catholic name.  Just checked Wikepedia:

Regina is a Late Latin feminine name meaning "queen" from the Latin, Italian and Romanian word meaning the same.[1] Regina was the name of an early Christian saint.

While working on genealogy, I found that my MIL changed her name from Edith to Evelyn.  That was a surprise to my husband and he really didn't want to believe me.  But it was in the census records.

[Jadzia]

5 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

While working on genealogy, I found that my MIL changed her name from Edith to Evelyn.  That was a surprise to my husband and he really didn't want to believe me.  But it was in the census records.

Census records aren't primary sources though, so it's entirely possible that the census taker either wrote the name down incorrectly or perhaps got the name from a neighbor who had incorrect information.  Sometimes you just find things that don't add up or are reflected in any other documents so you have to wonder if it was accurate. Many of my ancestors seemed to change the order of their first and middle names every year and unless I found a birth record I was never certain which was the their correct given name.

I have been doing a lot with my own DNA genealogy lately and I wished the show would have told us how close a match David and Larry were (in shared centimorgans). So I had to assume it was a pretty small amount.

[riverblue22]

23 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

Census records aren't primary sources though, so it's entirely possible that the census taker either wrote the name down incorrectly or perhaps got the name from a neighbor who had incorrect information.  Sometimes you just find things that don't add up or are reflected in any other documents so you have to wonder if it was accurate. Many of my ancestors seemed to change the order of their first and middle names every year and unless I found a birth record I was never certain which was the their correct given name.

I have been doing a lot with my own DNA genealogy lately and I wished the show would have told us how close a match David and Larry were (in shared centimorgans). So I had to assume it was a pretty small amount.

I found the name Ethyl in the 1925 New York census and the 1930 federal census.   The names were all correct for her 9 siblings and her parents so it would be odd IMO that her name would be incorrect.

[Driad]

Quote

I have been doing a lot with my own DNA genealogy lately and I wished the show would have told us how close a match David and Larry were (in shared centimorgans). So I had to assume it was a pretty small amount.

That is my guess too. Likely it just means that they match each other better then either of them matches anyone else who has been on the show.  I wish the PBS site for the show had "extra" information like that for viewers who are interested.

[Sew Sumi]

At the end of one season I watched, the last page of each Book of Life had a picture of someone else who appeared that same season if they were genetically related. There weren't many and no one had more than one (that was shown). I do remember that Bill O'Reilly was related to Bill Maher, which I found to be giggle-worthy. 

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

Actually I was a little surprised at the name Regina.  I always thought of that as a Catholic name.  Just checked Wikepedia:

Regina is a Late Latin feminine name meaning "queen" from the Latin, Italian and Romanian word meaning the same.[1] Regina was the name of an early Christian saint.

Yes, which is why I thought she changed her name to Rose to sound less "goy".  In NYC that name would have raised some eyebrows in a Jewish neighborhood.  I'm wondering if she was named that because her parents weren't so affected by peer pressure and keeping up appearances living in an area that was mostly non-Jewish and her mother just happened to like that name.  But when she got to NY it felt a little "off".

[HazelEyes4325]

13 hours ago, Jadzia said:

Census records aren't primary sources though, so it's entirely possible that the census taker either wrote the name down incorrectly or perhaps got the name from a neighbor who had incorrect information.  Sometimes you just find things that don't add up or are reflected in any other documents so you have to wonder if it was accurate. Many of my ancestors seemed to change the order of their first and middle names every year and unless I found a birth record I was never certain which was the their correct given name.

I have been doing a lot with my own DNA genealogy lately and I wished the show would have told us how close a match David and Larry were (in shared centimorgans). So I had to assume it was a pretty small amount.

This is true.  My husband's aunt has done some genealogy and she came across the name "Ninemeyer."  They believed it was a German name, but they didn't think they had any German ancestors (they were from the British Isles).  They have been obsessed about this name--so much so that my late MIL asked us to look it up while we were in Germany during our honeymoon.  Which we didn't do because I had looked at the census records and noticed something.  In the census before the Ninemeyers showed up, the family living at the same address, with the same first names and ages that were 10 years younger than the Ninemeyers, had the last name of Meyer.  Yes, there were nine of them.  So, my guess--which I have a fair amount of confidence in--is that the census guy came and misunderstood the "Nine Meyers" as the "Ninemeyers."  Oh, and in the census after the one citing the Ninemeyers, they were back to being Meyers. I've tried to explain this to the aunt, but she wants "proof" of it.  Whatever.

As for Regina/Rose.  it could be anything from a mistake at Ellis Island to her just wanting to change her name.  Who knows, it might also have been a mistake on the Polish (?) census.

[Driad]

Speaking of Ellis Island, this has not yet been posted in this thread:

Why Your Family Name Was Not Changed at Ellis Island (and One That Was)

[SimoneS]

I caught the episode with Carly Simon and Fred Armisten. I thought both their stories were fascinating. Simon having African ancestry hidden by her Cuban grandmother and Armiston's grandfather actually being Korean. I enjoyed his visit to the museum dedicated to his grandfather.

Edited October 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[Blergh]

I agree that Mr. Armisten's Korean grandfather passing as a Japanese in Germany and other Axis countries then visiting his son in the US was quite fascinating but too bad that nothing was mentioned what became of Mr. Armisten's German grandmother who bore a nonmarital child (Fred's father) when WWII was raging. Ironically, German women were ENCOURAGED to have as many babies as possible by the NAZIs regardless of marital status  (even given medals for doing so) . However; this was done to expand the number of 'Aryans' and I'm not sure the authorities would have been entirely pleased re her giving birth to a biracial baby even via one supposedly Japanese man (to say nothing of her own family and 'neighbors'). Quite a number of mothers who gave birth in that place and time with all the 'boxes checked' did NOT survive- to say nothing of their babies due to air raids, mass starvation,etc., so this makes the odds of how Mr. Armisted's father surviving childhood more daunting. Also, it would have good to have found out whether either grandparent eventually married other folks and/or had other known offspring (to say nothing of when/how Mr. Armisted's father emigrated here).  Still, I agree that finding out all that re the grandfather was amazing and it was great his talent proved enough to get his adopted country to honor him with his very own museum (and I wonder if THEY already knew his Korean origins).

  Miss Simon's grandmother as well as Mr. Walken's parents were great mysteries too (and I wonder what became of Mr. Walken's uncle after WWII and did his father ever contact him after the War?).

[riverblue22]

Yes, and I was left wondering about the other two uncles that stayed behind in Germany.

[kassa]

Re: name changes, I always thought my great grandmother's legal name was Helen Marie (marriage certificate, death certificate).  Finally got her birth certificate -- birth name was Ellen Maria.  I'm sure as a teen she thought that was declasse and wanted something fancier/less Irish.  And the whole family called her Daisy, anyway, which is funnier.  In various censuses she's Helen or Daisy -- I suppose it depended on who was asked or what her mood was that year.  

On the other side of the family, perfectly literate English speakers changed the spelling of their last names multiple times on various documents that they completed themselves, so I can't blame bureaucracy for that, either.  

Simon's grandmother looked like several black women I've known, so I'm not sure any of that was a complete surprise to her (though its documentation might have been).  

Edited October 11, 2017 by kassa

[Mermaid Under]

As for Carly Simon's grandmother - I thought there was a heck of lot of speculation going on there.

First - Gates presented Carly Simon with a list of passengers on a ship from Cuba whose names were unlike any name her grandmother had used  and told her that these were her relatives. 

If you agree to start with that leap, they discovered this child on that ship who grew up and  became Simon's grandmother was 

• illegitimate
• likely born to teenager (possibly raised by her grandmother rather than her mother)
• and had Cuban slave ancestry

But Gates and Simons decided and agreed that all her secretiveness was due to being mixed race.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mermaid Under

[One Imaginary Girl]

I loved this episode.  LOVED it.  It might be my favorite genealogy TV series episode ever, but then, I love stories of passing or other deep secrets.  Part of my own family is white people who were descended from mixed-race ancestors who passed, and I see from my DNA matches that there's a surprisingly large population like that in Appalachia, long considered just plain white*. So, back to the show--Carly's and Fred's grandparents' stories were so interesting for that reason and how they must change so much of what their descendants think.  

Also, Christopher Walken's parts were nice because he and his family life seemed very warm, in contrast to his Walkenized roles.  And he handled the news about his SS uncle without excusing it, and that is some ugly stuff to hear.  (Certainly comparable to having slave-owning ancestors.)

*I'd really love for Dr. Gates to do a series for PBS on the mixed-race communities of the US, such as the Melungeons, Ramapo, Brass Ankles, and the like.

[Jadzia]

2 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

As for Carly Simon's grandmother - I thought there was a heck of lot of speculation going on there.

First - Gates presented Carly Simon with a list of passengers on a ship from Cuba whose names were unlike any name her grandmother had used  and told her that these were her relatives. 

If you agree to start with that leap, they discovered this child on that ship who grew up and  became Simon's grandmother was 

• illegitimate
• likely born to teenager (possibly raised by her grandmother rather than her mother)
• and had Cuban slave ancestry

But Gates and Simons decided and agreed that all her secretiveness was due to being mixed race.

I thought the same thing at first, but they did use DNA to prove the connection with the other people on the ship listed on the ship manifest so the hunch proved correct.

I loved Fred Armisen's story! But I was surprised that even though he had met his grandfather before and knew he was a Japanese dancer he had no idea he was famous. I was surprised he had never Googled him or anything before.

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, Jadzia said:

I thought the same thing at first, but they did use DNA to prove the connection with the other people on the ship listed on the ship manifest so the hunch proved correct.

I loved Fred Armisen's story! But I was surprised that even though he had met his grandfather before and knew he was a Japanese dancer he had no idea he was famous. I was surprised he had never Googled him or anything before.

I was skeptical too based on the documentation they showed.  But when the DNA proved the connection I figured they might have had other documentation that they didn't bother to show us.

[Enigma X]

Cece Moore is on Facebook. She analyzes the DNA in all these cases. She stated there was more proof given through DNA with Carly's case that ended up on the cutting room floor.

[2727]

No DNA matches to other guests this time? I wish each show focused on one person; there's always so much info that gets cut for time.

Maybe Fred never knew his grandfather's last name so look it up? Is Fred's father still alive? You'd think he would have have been intensely curious about his father and done some research. Gah, so many questions!

9 hours ago, kassa said:

Simon's grandmother looked like several black women I've known, so I'm not sure any of that was a complete surprise to her (though its documentation might have been).  

I was honestly shocked that it wasn't immediately obvious to Carly's family. When Gates first mentioned Cuba, I thought oh, that makes sense, but only because of the historical presence of slaves there.

[Snarklepuss]

I liked this episode.  I like both Christopher Walken and Carly Simon so I was especially interested.  Carly grew up in my old neighborhood in NYC.  I know a few people with a little Cuban in them, but I never imagined Carly would be one and be 10% Sub Saharan African.

Fred Armiston's story was absolutely amazing - one of the best I've heard on a genealogy show.  I have an amazing tree myself but his outdid mine. 

Christopher Walken - I actually knew his family ran a bakery from some other show but I forget where now.  I think he was a guest somewhere and the subject came up.

I just love this show and I'm so happy it's back!

[Sew Sumi]

Christopher Walken's family bakery came up in a special Christmas episode he guested in with Lidia Bastianiach. They apparently grew up together. 

[attica]

I missed where the Walken bakery was. What neighborhoood?

I read Carly's memoir last year. Takeaway: rich people are freaking horrible to each other. 

11 hours ago, 2727 said:

I was honestly shocked that it wasn't immediately obvious to Carly's family.

Eh, not me. Blindspots in families are bigger than nearly anywhere else in life. You get told a story when you're young, and that's what you go by, and your brain fits what you see into the narrative you're going by.

 

10 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Carly grew up in my old neighborhood in NYC. 

Riverdale represent!