GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Francie]

From Fylaki's post in the Spoiler thread:

 

Weren't Decker & Dawn actually somewhat popular when they were written off? I remember reading that some fans weren't happy about that at all, as D&D were one of the only new couples that worked back then.

 

The Eckerts, though, yes. It made sense to get rid of them.

That was my recollection, especially as to Decker. 

 

I know Michael Watson was voted best supporting actor by fans at the GH fan event -- it was a write in ballot kind of thing -- and Dawn and Decker might have been voted biggest romance of 1990. The ceremony is out there on youtube somewhere. I know that's not empirical evidence, but from everything I understand Decker was hugely popular.

 

My own anecdotal evidence, which I know is next to nothing, is that my friend was a HUGE fan. She was the one person in my circle of friends in college that had a tv and vcr, so I'd catch up with her on the weekend watching the show while she fawned over Decker and Dawn.  They were her reason for recording and watching GH.

[UYI]

That was my recollection, especially as to Decker. 

 

I know Michael Watson was voted best supporting actor by fans at the GH fan event -- it was a write in ballot kind of thing -- and Dawn and Decker might have been voted biggest romance of 1990. The ceremony is out there on youtube somewhere. I know that's not empirical evidence, but from everything I understand Decker was hugely popular.

 

My own anecdotal evidence, which I know is next to nothing, is that my friend was a HUGE fan. She was the one person in my circle of friends in college that had a tv and vcr, so I'd catch up with her on the weekend watching the show while she fawned over Decker and Dawn.  They were her reason for recording and watching GH.

 

I've heard about that luncheon. I haven't actually watched it, but apparently GM addressed the situation there directly, which...didn't really make those fans much happier, if at all.

[UYI]

^^^^I should say the Monty speech, I think, was in 1991 after Michael Watson was fired.

 

The Q's celebrate Thanksgiving! 2001.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiT4kqpWNk

[UYI]

And 1995:

 

[UYI]

The Q's find out about Soily:

 

[Ambrosefolly]

God, Guza really hated the Qs. They had every fucking reason to not want Emily anywhere near Sonny, on a personal level and on a rational level, yet Nikolas, who by that time had cheated on Emily with Courtney, dressed down the Qs for not being more enthused about being in love with the fucking thug that more or less stole away all of their sons. Is that the reason Nik thought Qs mistreated her, because they didn't support all of her decisions, no matter how destructive?

 

The hilarious part is the next Soily clip, when Sonny comes to the house. He has to stand on the step to talk to Alan Q, because Stuart Damon is so much taller than Maurice Bernard. They did it previously, right after AJ faked his death and Alan went after Sonny at his house. Sonny jumped on the landing of the house stairs and had Max block him.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[UYI]

20 years ago today.

 

"I see you! Oh Robin, I see you."

 

Sniff. :'(

 

[TeeVee329]

I got to thinking about these AJ/Carly scenes today:

 

 

I really love the line from AJ about how Carly could have helped him, how she could have pulled him up instead of pushing him down.

 

And again, Carly seems more upset here about fuckin' Todd than she did the entire time she was on the outs with Michael.

Edited December 3, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

I cannot believe they wasted all that chemistry in favor of Carly and fucking Franco. I actually wish MS had been around so they could've tossed RoHo at her earlier.

 

I spent the entire clip yelling MAAAKE OUUUUUT at the screen

Edited December 3, 2015 by Oracle42

[Oracle42]

And again, Carly seems more upset here about fuckin' Todd than she did the entire time she was on the outs with Michael.

 

Pretty sure that was RC mourning Todd's loss and projecting over losing the opportunity to FINALLY see his shitty Todd/PseudoBlair fanfic onscreen 

[dubbel zout]

Chemistry will always lose to fat.

 

ETA: Whoops. Made the point backwards.

Edited December 3, 2015 by dubbel zout

[LeftPhalange]

I cannot believe they wasted all that chemistry in favor of Carly and fucking Franco. I actually wish MS had been around so they could've tossed RoHo at her earlier.

 

I spent the entire clip yelling MAAAKE OUUUUUT at the screen

 

Serial Killer ruins everything. RoHo ruins everything. 

[Francie]

Pretty sure that was RC mourning Todd's loss and projecting over losing the opportunity to FINALLY see his shitty Todd/PseudoBlair fanfic onscreen 

RC is Example "A" as to why fans shouldn't write their favorite shows. His myopia and tunnel vision made for a shitty overall production.

[ch1]

They had absolute gold with Sean Kanan and Laura Wright.  Chemistry and a crap load of story potential - and all based on real history.  Thrown away because SK wasn't a pet.

 

And I don't know how SK could be considered fat at that time. Did he look the way he did in 1993?  No but he also didn't look like they had to get a forklift to bring him onto set everyday either.

[TeeVee329]

I also enjoyed this more comedic scene between AJ/Carly in the next episode, with AJ delighting in Carly's hungover misery.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocj-ipvkHCc

 

AJ: C'mon honey, what's the matter, afraid we made another baby?

 

Hee!

Edited December 3, 2015 by TeeVee329

[JaneDigby]

I got to thinking about these AJ/Carly scenes today:

 

 

I really love the line from AJ about how Carly could have helped him, how she could have pulled him up instead of pushing him down.

 

And again, Carly seems more upset here about fuckin' Todd than she did the entire time she was on the outs with Michael.

 

I never saw this (I was on the barge at the time) but damn that's some great chemistry there. AJ/Carly redux would have been interesting. 

[ch1]

I also loved how he tried to comfort her and put her to bed.  Now there was some history there.  And the writers never acknowledged that afterwards.  Carly continued to view AJ as the evilest evil that ever eviled.  Some character growth for Carly could have been achieved there but nope.  Better to just kill off a legacy character and have everyone act like he was a one note character that deserved to die then do that.

 

(Nevermind that they did actually do the deed again.)

 

Yeah, still bitter. 

[TeeVee329]

I never saw this (I was on the barge at the time) but damn that's some great chemistry there. AJ/Carly redux would have been interesting. 

 

I was into AJ/Liz at this time (siiiigh...Quiz), but yeah, there was definitely chemistry to play between SK and LW.

[Oracle42]

I also loved how he tried to comfort her and put her to bed. Now there was some history there. And the writers never acknowledged that afterwards. Carly continued to view AJ as the evilest evil that ever eviled. Some character growth for Carly could have been achieved there but nope. Better to just kill off a legacy character and have everyone act like he was a one note character that deserved to die then do that.

(Nevermind that they did actually do the deed again.)

Yeah, still bitter.

That was the last real chance I saw for character growth and a real shift in direction for Carly as a character. I've just given up on her since the Sonny marriage Edited December 4, 2015 by Oracle42

[Asp Burger]

Does anyone remember this? Long ago, Spring 2001. When the Tamara Braun Carly first appeared, Sonny threw her out for going behind his back to Roy and trying to arrange a "deal" to get him out of the mob. There were weeks of painful scenes of the TB Carly prostrating herself trying to get Sonny back. Following him around everywhere. Crying. Begging. Pleading. Wearing her wedding dress. Sonny was giving her nothing back, no reason to hope, but she kept on. All of that is typical, but the weird scene that I want to make sure I didn't dream -- I remember one in which Carly stalked Sonny to the expensive restaurant that GH used for all the "expensive restaurant" scenes in those days (is it still the same one?), and Sonny was laughing it up and having a great time at dinner with a bunch of day players we never saw again. They weren't mob types, either, they were civilian-looking upscale people, a mix of male and female, and I think they were all younger than Maurice.

 

Nothing more happened in the scene than Carly trying again to get attention, and Sonny being cold to her again. But the weirdness of those "Sonny friends" made it stand out to me. Number one, they were nobody we ever saw before or since; number two...Sonny had friends? I mean, other than Jason (who wasn't on at that time) and the bodyguards he paid?

[SlovakPrincess]

That was my recollection, especially as to Decker. 

 

I know Michael Watson was voted best supporting actor by fans at the GH fan event -- it was a write in ballot kind of thing -- and Dawn and Decker might have been voted biggest romance of 1990. The ceremony is out there on youtube somewhere. I know that's not empirical evidence, but from everything I understand Decker was hugely popular.

 

I'm sure fans were pissed that Dawn got murdered and Decker left town miserable ... if I'm recalling the end of that story correctly.  

 

I love your avatar, Francie!  Ugh, when I think about how the recent writers have ruined Anna I get so frickin' mad.   Grrrrrr.  

[ulkis]

Does anyone remember this? Long ago, Spring 2001. When the Tamara Braun Carly first appeared, Sonny threw her out for going behind his back to Roy and trying to arrange a "deal" to get him out of the mob. There were weeks of painful scenes of the TB Carly prostrating herself trying to get Sonny back. Following him around everywhere. Crying. Begging. Pleading. Wearing her wedding dress. Sonny was giving her nothing back, no reason to hope, but she kept on. All of that is typical, but the weird scene that I want to make sure I didn't dream -- I remember one in which Carly stalked Sonny to the expensive restaurant that GH used for all the "expensive restaurant" scenes in those days (is it still the same one?), and Sonny was laughing it up and having a great time at dinner with a bunch of day players we never saw again. They weren't mob types, either, they were civilian-looking upscale people, a mix of male and female, and I think they were all younger than Maurice.

 

Nothing more happened in the scene than Carly trying again to get attention, and Sonny being cold to her again. But the weirdness of those "Sonny friends" made it stand out to me. Number one, they were nobody we ever saw before or since; number two...Sonny had friends? I mean, other than Jason (who wasn't on at that time) and the bodyguards he paid?

 

Sounds vaguely familiar.

[Francie]

love your avatar, Francie!  Ugh, when I think about how the recent writers have ruined Anna I get so frickin' mad.   Grrrrrr.

Thanks! They're my couple. Always has been. Always will be.

[Asp Burger]

There were so many new characters in the '00s who were brought on and established as very important to core characters, and then killed off. Then you look back and it's so dumb, what was the point? True, things don't work out as planned. But I think if you're going to go into deep retcon, you have to commit. Don't say "Alexis has a never-before-mentioned sister," "Carly's dead best friend we've been hearing about for ten years IS ALIVE" or "This guy is Carly's father" and waste it on someone who's going to be gone and never mentioned again in a year.

 

Nikolas is an example of a character who was worth the bother. Love him or hate him (or the way they brought him on), he stuck. Big stories through, what, three actors now? But they've done things like the Nikolas reveal too many times since then. One of the reasons I stopped watching is that I could not even keep track of all of these comings and goings that were made to seem such a big deal when they were announced. Guza, especially, was very cynical about...well, everything, but especially those close relationships. 

 

Most embarrassing GH ad ever is still the one of the housewife fantasizing about Jason. "I'm in my kitchen. He's on my television. But there is a place in my heart [etc]. See you tomorrow, Jason." For the zombie assassin! The romantic quality, with the reference to walking on the beach arm in arm, made it seem like something originally conceived for Jax and then given to someone's pet. 

Edited December 6, 2015 by Asp Burger

[Ambrosefolly]

Alexis/Ric and Lucky/Liez were already having huge problems before Sam so I'm not sure how they were her "victim". Sam being a Cassadine is hardly ever mentioned and the only Casadines she spends any significant time with is Alexis (who has renounced the family) and Nik so I don't know why that is such a huge devastating problem for some people.

The major problems, IMHO, only began in earnest when TPTB either decided that they were going to move Liz to Jason, or Kelly Monaco's contract was coming to an end and she was debating to jump ship and the show decided to be petty. Lucky did have problems with Liz being Jax/Courtney's surrogate and Ric and Alexis were always somewhat quarrelsome because Ric and Alexis were Ric and Alexis, but to me they seemed to be a refreshing in that the conflicts were internal than external. I can remember the very first scene where I could tell that Rebecca Herbst found out she was going to be paired with SB's Jason: It was after Lucky was released from the hospital after fighting with Manny. I thought RH played the scene unusually cold and then it hit me what TPTB were going to do. Sure enough, Liz and Jason were having scenes more regularly, even though they hadn't really shared scenes in years and Lucky all of a sudden developed a drug addiction, even though he had more severe injuries from Helena (he was in a coma and placed on life support) and recovered fully. When that wasn't enough to okay an affair between Jason and Liz, they turned Maxie into blackmailing drug pimp and had Ric sleep with cancer stricken Alexis's just revealed daughter Sam (so Jason could conveniently see them) so Liz could walk up several flights of stairs to Jason. When Kelly sign back with GH, TPTB went to the effort of putting them back together and did as much rehab on Sam as they could, after throwing her under the bus to prop Jason. Rexis, LL2, well fuck them! Ric and Alexis never got back together, and they quickly put Liz and Lucky back together... and then had Liz have an out of nowhere affair with her longtime friend Nik. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[TeeVee329]

As the show finally heads into the endgame of Robin's Abduction 2.0, I was thinking about an element of Robin's Abduction 1.0 I enjoyed, the weird alliance between Robin and Britt.

 

Here's when they first met:

 

 

I love this exchange...

 

Britt (incredulous): You're Patrick's WIFE.

 

Robin (in this hilarious tone): And you're the woman who tried to pass off that baby as my husband's.

 

Here's where Britt makes clear that she's a Scrubs shipper when she's horrified that Patrick and Sabrina are engaged (she also awesomely shuts down an annoying Felix): 

 

 

And here's Britt telling Robin to stop messing around and go bust up Patrick and Sabrina's wedding:

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Asp Burger]

Can someone make this more coherent for me? From Wikipedia: 

 

AJ battles for an extended amount in 2013 for control over the Quartermaine business, ELQ, with Tracy Quartermaine after Jerry Jacks (Sebastian Roché) ordered Robin Scorpio-Drake to revive his henchman Franco and make him Jerry's look-alike to poison Pickle Lila and Pickle Eddie before the starting of The Chew.

 

So, Franco had yet another face between James Franco's and Roger Howarth's, and it was Sebastian Roché's? And, re: revive "his" henchman, it's not clear whose henchman (Jerry's or AJ's) Franco was supposed to have been.

 

That was around the time I was giving up again. My perception was that Ron Carlivati really did get off to a nice start, and I was loving the AJ return at first. But then it seemed he wanted to write any show but General Hospital. For a while it was One Life to Live; then it was goddamned ten-years-dead Port Charles (complete with vampires), and when it became The Chew as well, I just couldn't. 

[HeatLifer]

Aw, that scene where Robin finds out Jason is dead. "I thought he would always be there when I needed him." My heart!

[UYI]

Before "rutting like farm animals", there was "You are a LYING WHORE" (and SBu's ugly as fuck haircut--seriously, people found THIS guy hot? THIS guy? Okay then.):

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by UYI

[Tiger]

Can someone make this more coherent for me? From Wikipedia: 

 

 

So, Franco had yet another face between James Franco's and Roger Howarth's, and it was Sebastian Roché's? And, re: revive "his" henchman, it's not clear whose henchman (Jerry's or AJ's) Franco was supposed to have been.

 

That was around the time I was giving up again. My perception was that Ron Carlivati really did get off to a nice start, and I was loving the AJ return at first. But then it seemed he wanted to write any show but General Hospital. For a while it was One Life to Live; then it was goddamned ten-years-dead Port Charles (complete with vampires), and when it became The Chew as well, I just couldn't.

Okay that definitely did not happen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Wikipedia, like IMDB information, comments not in quotes, are written by fans and not official sources.

Except that Wikipedia does cite the official sources used to provide information.

Edited December 11, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[UYI]

It's thanks to Wikipedia that some think Liz's mother's name is Andrea Trent Webber, which...why that name was chosen, I don't know, but it's stuck there.

[TeeVee329]

Here's Robin's reunions with Anna and Duke at the end of Robin's Abduction 1.0:

 

 

I really loved Duke's reaction.  It's very sweetly paternal, like he's talking to a child in a way, which makes sense because the last time he saw Robin, she was a child.

Edited December 11, 2015 by TeeVee329

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know how y'all do it. I can never find the scenes I WANT! Like, the scenes of ROBERTFUCKING!SCORPIO reuniting with Robin! The original clips I'd posted in the Scorpios' thread has been deleted due to copy infringement, so they are no longer viewable.

 

Ahem. I would like to know WHERE the ANNA in the above clip disappeared to, thankyouverramooch.

[ElleMo]

I read that actot Will MacMillan recently passed away.  The article said he played the role of Boris on GH. I am darwing a blank.  Can anyone describe the character to me?

[Dandesun]

Watching that video again... I just get angry all over again about how they completely squandered Duke after bringing him back.

 

Just... argh!!

[TeeVee329]

Watching that video again... I just get angry all over again about how they completely squandered Duke after bringing him back.

 

Just... argh!!

 

I mean, just look at this clip from when Anna rescues the real Duke...

 

 

...and the way he looks at her...says her name...kisses her hand...calls her his hero.  And we're to believe this man would throw her over for Sonny fucking Corinthos?!?!

 

ETA...I also looove Robert pinching Duke's face to make sure it's not a mask.  Hee!

Edited December 15, 2015 by TeeVee329

[General Days]

Imported from another thread.
 

Did you miss the scenes where Victor came into their house and threatened Robin? Or where Patrick told Victor that he, Patrick, would kill Victor if anything happened to Robin when she left to go save Jason? The writers retconned all of that to make it look like Robin left of her own free choice, which she never did. Faison alluded to it, when he was captured wearing the Luke mask the last time we saw him. So, yeah, Patrick has always known.

 
 

Patrick definitely knows that initially she was being held hostage/threatened. He just thinks that she went to Paris of her own free will. I think. Admittedly I don't pay a lot of attention to this story lol.

I had no luck finding the episode clips I wanted, but I went to the Soap Central recaps for February, 2014. Victor wants Robin to resurrect Helena and Stavros. He uses Jason as bait. She can save Jason's life, too, but only if she tells no one where she is going and what she will be doing.  After meeting Danny and learning Jason "died" without knowing the child was his bio-son, Robin decides she has to save Jason; he would do it for her.

This is right when Sabrina stops lying about her pregnancy and admits to Patrick that he's the father. When he goes home and tells Robin, she doesn't mention anything about the Jason situation. 

Later on, Robin lies to Patrick that she is going to work for AMFAR on an open-ended trip. Patrick doesn't believe she would leave Emma and him, after just getting back. 

 

Eventually, Robin admits that the truth -- she's going to wake Jason from suspended animation. Patrick say she could choose Emma and him over Jason, but apparently he's the most important person in the world to her. 

By the time Robin leaves, Patrick has accepted her decision a little better. The trip is clearly Robin's choice, even if it's one whether the other option (letting Jason die or remain in suspended animation) is an unattractive one.  While he doesn't trust Victor, and wants to go to Anna, Robin talks him out of it, because she refuses to risk Jason's life.

Later, Patrick has no idea Robin is staying at Crichton Clark against her will. He doesn't know (originally) that Victor arranged for the car accident that caused Sabrina to go into early labor, to use the threat to Robin's family as leverage over her. 

 

Now if you're talking about this latest time she's being held against her will (i.e. Helena kidnapped her and Robin lied that she was flitting off to Paris because she was too broken), that's a little different. Should Patrick (and Anna, and Nik, and possibly Sam) have figured out something was off and investigated further? Hell yeah. Do any of them know she is being held against her will? No (well, who knows what Nik knows).

Edited December 15, 2015 by General Days

[GHScorpiosRule]

Most of that recap is true. However.  On Kimberly's last air date, Victor showed up at Robin and Patrick's house the night before she was set to leave, where we learned that he had bugs put in her home, so she couldn't tell Patrick the truth, and though he didn't come right out and threaten to have all of Robin's loved ones killed if she didn't leave, Patrick still had a brain and he read through the lines and then Patrick threatened Victor--saying if anything happened to Robin, he would kill Victor. Then we got that lovely and beautiful love scene between Robin and Patrick. Then Victor showed up the next morning to escort Robin.

 

Actually, he may have just arrived that morning. All I know is that Victor came into their home and Patrick knew Robin wasn't leaving by choice.

 

Of course, like I posted in another thread, that youtube, like this show, hates Robin, because I can't find these scenes.  I'm sure other, more savvy posters here could find them.

 

And then of course, Ron retconned the whole thing, making it Robin chose Jason and her work over her family! She Skypes with Emma! Bullshit.

[jsbt]

I don't think Ron really said that in the narrative - I think Patrick took it that way, semi-inexplicably, when Gabriel died. I also think, as Ron was wont to do, the writing blurred the lines a bit; it often seemed to say that yes, we knew Robin had been forced away but couldn't she really have done more if she tried?

 

That's horseshit of course, but it's how he often played both sides of the street. Ron loved to do that with most 'good' characters - leave them blameless but also sort of gnatfuck it and have many other characters suggest that well, maybe they could've done more! He did the same number with Michael the following year. Sure, Michael is righteously aggrieved but isn't he maybe taking it a little too far with Sonny and Carly?

 

The thing is that I think Ron always felt both things at once, simultaneously - I suspect he agreed that Michael should really cut S&C off, if at least for awhile (though he clearly didn't give a fuck about A.J.) and I do believe he mostly worshipped Robin as a legacy heroine. But the thing is that with Ron, as we've said so many times, his sacred Plots always came first before character considerations. According to Plot, people have to move on without Robin and he has chosen to write another kidnapping plot, so in order for the audience to not be completely horrified at Patrick, Emma, etc.'s actions there has to be a way to muddy the waters on Robin's culpability with backhanded suggestion in the mouths of various characters - Patrick, Carly, etc. And after all, RC can clear it all up when Kimberly finally comes back and 'vindicate' Robin so no harm no foul, right?

 

That's what he intended to do and that's what's happening now - I'm not saying it's the right way to handle it because I don't think it is, but it's how he operated as a writer. Same thing with how things went down with Michael and Sonny, albeit even more lazy.

Edited December 15, 2015 by jsbt

[Francie]

And what jsbt wrote above is part of the reason why I will never not be unhappy that Ron Carlivati was fired.

 

Ron was always playing "I'm smarter than you are" tricks with the audience. If they challenged him on a plot point, he'd hide behind his "out."  But the problem wasn't in the mechanics, it was in the overall picture. I'm not explaining this well, but he would give an impression on screen, create a general atmosphere, and then he'd hide behind some detail that completely was ignored in the overall picture. And if that detail was challenged because it clashed or contradicted with what was on screen, he'd dismiss you as  "nitpicker."  He loved to have eat his cake and have it too.

[Oracle42]

RC just shouldn't have been a HW. He could do scenes or moments and had some good ideas but he couldn't/wouldn't create a coherent narrative, his story acing was abysmal and he refused to acknowledge the importance of character motivation as primary mover instead of plot.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Oracle42

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah, well, I don't care about his vision, etc.

I appreciate what jsbt said, but I base my opinions on what I saw and what was said onscreen and stand by it.

And okease understand that my anger is at the show, not you guys!

[jsbt]

I'm not excusing what he did and I lost interest in Ron Carlivati's grand vision years ago. I just try to understand the way his wacky mind works.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not excusing what he did and I lost interest in Ron Carlivati's grand vision years ago. I just try to understand the way his wacky mind works.

You are so much kinder than I am! So kudos to you!

[HeatLifer]

I forgot how much of an ASS Nik was to Robin during the Lisa saga.

[WendyCR72]

I forgot how much of an ASS Nik was to Robin during the Lisa saga.

 

If I recall, Nik was sniffing around Lisa's ass for a bit, which in itself was nasty.

[dubbel zout]

Nik sniffs around every new woman in town. It's part of his droit du seigneur.

[TeeVee329]

To warm us up for today, here's the scene where Robert has awoken from his coma and tells Anna that Robin's alive:

 

 

I found everything about this Friday cliffhanger - the memory finally coming to Robert, him springing upright in bed and grabbing Anna's arm, his "She was with Robin!" declaration - super soapy.

Edited December 17, 2015 by TeeVee329

[HeatLifer]

*cries*