These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Shannonsspirit]

On 1/3/2020 at 4:25 AM, Featherhat said:

Free will to follow or not, fuck up or not is a very important part of many if not most world religions. Lots of books, movies, tv shows etc have explored that concept. For SPN to now decide it didn't ever even exist at least as far as Sam and Dean are concerned seems some pretty extreme character assassination for them for the sake of what was a very dubious storyline to begin with. 

Yes. No free will and a convenient spell for every occasion, with God inexplicably bored and evil. This season is embarrassingly awful.

[gonzosgirrl]

Sam's visions have already become a trope that I'm over. Lazy time-fillers at this point. There is a half a season left. Show us stuff stuff that is actually happening. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Lemuria]

I’m wondering, in that picture with Dean lying on the ground surrounded by some black goop, if the black goop is not leviathan related  

As for Dean dying at the end, I have my doubts about that, if only because Dean dying would make the end ultimately about Dean and it would be what most Viewers would remember about the finale. Would Dabb give Dean that much prominence at the end?

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

As for Dean dying at the end, I have my doubts about that, if only because Dean dying would make the end ultimately about Dean and it would be what most Viewers would remember about the finale. Would Dabb give Dean that much prominence at the end?

I think a lot of it depends on how Dean dies.

[ILoveReading]

The biggest thing to me that sticks out about the ending was Jensen saying (paraphrasing) that he hopes fans will take time to digest it rather than make a snap judgement.

That suggest to me that Dean doesn't end in a very good place.   This leaves 3 major possibilities for me,

  Dean just leaving Sam and walking away.  Like in his dream.

Sam dying and Dean not making a deal.  (Which is a big do not want from me.  The biggest thing I dont' want for Dean ends to be is learning to let go of Sam.')

Or Dean dies and because of this whole 'if you've been to hell you can't go to heaven thing, Dean goes to purgatory.  Which may leave Jensen worrying that fans will see it as Dean being a monster all along. 

[Pondlass1]

The ending of Angel was brilliant- well, in my opinion anyway- but I guess they can’t copy that. But I’d like something along that line.

 

 

[ILoveReading]

 

So what i'm seeing is a lot of Dean falling down, getting beat up, and giving up and needing another pep talk. 

 

Quote

 

“The Gamblers” is the title of the January 30 episode of Supernatural and The CW has released an official description to promote it! Hopefully we will have some photos soon, but here is the write-up:

YOU GOT TO KNOW WHEN TO FOLD ‘EM – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) press their luck in a winner-takes-all game of pool. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) hunts down a would-be murderer, but not for reasons one might think. Charles Beeson directed the episode with story by Meredith Glynn & Davy Perez and teleplay by Meredith Glynn (#1511). Original airdate 1/30/2020.

 

Of course its Sam doing the pool paying.  You can see a shot at 1.25. 

 

[BlueSapphire]

22 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

So what i'm seeing is a lot of Dean falling down, getting beat up, and giving up and needing another pep talk. 

 

Of course its Sam doing the pool paying.  You can see a shot at 1.25. 

 

So what?  Pool playing isn’t exclusively something only Dean should do.  Sam’s played pool before.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, BlueSapphire said:

So what?  Pool playing isn’t exclusively something only Dean should do.  Sam’s played pool before.

But show history has shown Dean to be more the hustler.  I just want to see him get to play too.  Not just Sam with Dean being the cheerleader.

[BlueSapphire]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

But show history has shown Dean to be more the hustler.  I just want to see him get to play too.  Not just Sam with Dean being the cheerleader.

Dean does not and should not be the expert on everything that a character could be on the show.  

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

But show history has shown Dean to be more the hustler.  I just want to see him get to play too.  Not just Sam with Dean being the cheerleader.

Agreed. I can only recall seeing Sam playing pool a handful of times, if that. That being said, I don't recall seeing a comment stating that Dean should be the expert in everything.

Edited January 11, 2020 by DeeDee79

[ILoveReading]

Just now, BlueSapphire said:

Dean does not and should not be the expert on everything that a character could be on the show.  

I don't think Dean being an expert in pool, which we know is how he made his living, means he's good at everything.

But I don't want to go into bitch/jerk so I'll leave it there.

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

So what?  Pool playing isn’t exclusively something only Dean should do.  Sam’s played pool before.

Actually, the only time I remember seeing Sam play pool was the aborted game back in season 4. He was in the middle of hustling someone when Ruby showed up and he abandoned the game.  We never did see him play.  We have, however, seen Dean play many times, both hustling and just for enjoyment. Doesn't mean he's an expert at everything, just pool.  

ETA: They already (years ago) had Sam beat the 800-year-old witch at poker, after both Dean and Bobby had lost, even though Dean had also hustled poker for most of his life, too.  Sam doesn't have to be good at everything Dean can do, either.  

Edited January 11, 2020 by ahrtee

[BlueSapphire]

6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Actually, the only time I remember seeing Sam play pool was the aborted game back in season 4. He was in the middle of hustling someone when Ruby showed up and he abandoned the game.  We never did see him play.  We have, however, seen Dean play many time, both hustling and just for enjoyment. Doesn't mean he's an expert at everything, just pool.  

But it’s still been established on the show that Sam has played pool.  Now that he’s being shown doing it, there’s a problem.  Pretty much anything Sam tries to do seems to be some kind of Dean-only thing and if Sam dares to do it, watch out.

[catrox14]

50 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

So what?  Pool playing isn’t exclusively something only Dean should do.  Sam’s played pool before.

Because Dean is the pool hustler. Sam actually shamed Dean for it back in early seasons, IIRC

ETA: IF it's winner take all, it's stupid for Sam to be one to do it.JMHO

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by catrox14
more thoughts

[ahrtee]

51 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

Pretty much anything Sam tries to do seems to be some kind of Dean-only thing and if Sam dares to do it, watch out.

Well, Sam has been shown over and over to be the "smart" one, the one who does all the research, and now the one who can do spells (and even bring people back to life!)  Dean was originally the "mechanical" one, the "brawn" and the pool hustler.  Now they're giving all that to Sam as well, while not letting Dean have anything new (or even the old things he used to be expert at.)  No one should be great at everything.  Let each one have their own areas of expertise.  It doesn't take anything away from the other if they excel at different things.  

ETA: And, as @catrox14 says, if it's a contest, the one who's the best should be the one who competes, not just someone who "can do it too."  
"

Edited January 11, 2020 by ahrtee

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

Well, Sam has been shown over and over to be the "smart" one, the one who does all the research, and now the one who can do spells (and even bring people back to life!)  Dean was originally the "mechanical" one, the "brawn" and the pool hustler.  Now they're giving all that to Sam as well, while not letting Dean have anything new (or even the old things he used to be expert at.)  No one should be great at everything.  Let each one have their own areas of expertise.  It doesn't take anything away from the other if they excel at different things.  
"

Well put!

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Well, Sam has been shown over and over to be the "smart" one, the one who does all the research, and now the one who can do spells (and even bring people back to life!)  Dean was originally the "mechanical" one, the "brawn" and the pool hustler.  Now they're giving all that to Sam as well, while not letting Dean have anything new (or even the old things he used to be expert at.)  No one should be great at everything.  Let each one have their own areas of expertise.  It doesn't take anything away from the other if they excel at different things.  

Hey, with his bad shoulder, Sam will probably do it one-handed.

[ahrtee]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Hey, with his bad shoulder, Sam will probably do it one-handed.

Or he can just stamp his foot and look mad and his opponent will just forfeit the match and run away.  

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Well, Sam has been shown over and over to be the "smart" one, the one who does all the research, and now the one who can do spells

Taken to "Bitch vs Jerk" just to be safe.

[Harleycat]

On 12/8/2019 at 9:02 AM, ILoveReading said:

At one point I wouldn't have minded an hour of the brothers talking but with the way JP plays Sam lately with Sam constantly sounding like he's talking at Dean and lecturing him.  Hard pass.

Sam is always at his best when he's not talking.

[7kstar]

Jared plays certain scenes really well and others  not so much.  When the lines are weak, I think Jared goes for the most common tactic. 

53 minutes ago, Harleycat said:

Sam is always at his best when he's not talking.

Sam  seems more one note but that could be from the guys playing around too much.  So who knows but some of Sam's best scenes have always been one where he gives a look but no words.  So yes I can agree with this statement.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

Putting this here instead of regular spoilers because I just know Dabb is gonna fuck it up.

 

[DeeDee79]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Putting this here instead of regular spoilers because I just know Dabb is gonna fuck it up.

 

And Benny will probably blame Dean for him being back there because Dean wasn’t there for him when he needed him. Which will result in even more Dean guilt. Or Benny will act like a typical monster thus making Dean wrong for trusting him in the first place. Yeah, I don’t see this ending well. They could have him pulling Benny out of purgatory but that’s a scenario that I would be happy with which means that it won’t happen. ☹️

[Myrelle]

I'm not sure he'll be on Supernatural.

It sounds like he's been given a part in Wynonna Earp which is set in a fictional town named Purgatory.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm not sure he'll be on Supernatural.

It sounds like he's been given a part in Wynonna Earp which is set in a fictional town named Purgatory.

Ha, so that's what 'Kinda' means. I had no idea about the town name. 

[PAForrest]

6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm not sure he'll be on Supernatural.

It sounds like he's been given a part in Wynonna Earp which is set in a fictional town named Purgatory.

Yeah, the "kinda" makes it sound kinda-not really. Probably shooting in the same woods.

Just as well because in the hands of Dabb and Berens, it wouldn't be good. Jensen did it best and it should probably end there.

[Aeryn13]

I'm not sure. In the promo there seems to be a shot in Purgatory with Dean, Cas and a third figure who could be Benny. But you only see a silhouette. 

[PAForrest]

43 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I'm not sure. In the promo there seems to be a shot in Purgatory with Dean, Cas and a third figure who could be Benny. But you only see a silhouette. 

I half wonder if Benny is mentioned by Dean, but never actually seen. It's pretty much what I've been expecting, especially when Jensen talked about how hard it was for Ty to shoot the one day on episode #4 because he's so busy shooting other stuff.

If Benny was in the episode, I'd think Jensen would have been more enthusiastic about it, because he loves Ty and the character. As it stands, this episode is not one of the 3-4 episodes Jensen has talked about liking.

[Myrelle]

From Dabb's latest interview...

"Who should we be more worried about-Sam or Dean?"

Wait for it....

Sam! 🙄

What a surprise-Not.

ETA: Oh, and let's not forget this gem-

"Chuck and Sam are both God-like in their own way"...🙄 🙄🙄

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Myrelle
Spelling

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, Myrelle said:

ETA: Oh, and let's not forget this gem-

"Chuck and Sam are both God-like in their own way"...🙄 🙄🙄

This is the part of the interview that made me see red. I hate Dabb so much I can't even articulate how deeply my hate runs. The only, only, only part of the interview that I liked was when Dabb said: "Should “Supernatural” come back, most likely that’s going to be somebody else’s problem. " If they bring it back for more stories as Jensen and Jared said that they would be open to at least we won't have to worry about Dabb being involved. Small consolation but I'll take it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by DeeDee79
Spelling is important

[Shannonsspirit]

32 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

From Dabb's latest interview...

"Who should we be more worried about-Sam or Dean?"

Wait for it....

Sam! 🙄

What a surprise-Not.

ETA: Oh, and let's not forget this gem-

"Chuck and Sam are both God-like in their own way"...🙄 🙄🙄

 

Chuck isn't God-like. He is God. Sam is God-like, as is Dean. They are Winchesters.

[Myrelle]

Just now, Shannonsspirit said:

Chuck isn't God-like. He is God. Sam is God-like, as is Dean. They are Winchesters.

Again, I missed this in the interview. 

[Shannonsspirit]

Just now, Myrelle said:

Again, I missed this in the interview. 

I think it is generally accepted by most, that the fricking Winchesters are God-like.

[Myrelle]

7 minutes ago, Shannonsspirit said:

I think it is generally accepted by most, that the fricking Winchesters are God-like.

See my post in the regular spoilers thread...

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is the part of the interview that made me see red. I hate Dabb so much I can't even articulate hope deeply my hate runs. The only, only, only part of the interview that I liked was when Dabb said: "Should “Supernatural” come back, most likely that’s going to be somebody else’s problem. " If they bring it back for more stories as Jensen and Jared said that they would be open to at least we won't have to worry about Dabb being involved. Small consolation but I'll take it.

Oh god, you weren't kidding. I may puke.

[DeeDee79]

20 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Again, I missed this in the interview. 

You didn't miss it because he didn't phrase it that way.  This is Dabb's exact wording for anyone who hasn't read the interview in the link and think that mountains are being made out of molehills:

"when you’re in a world with Chuck and Sam, both of whom are God-like in their own ways, having Eileen there to offer some real world, boots on the ground balance is helpful for that. It really helps to add a normal person’s perspective..."

In this statement and the rest of the interview there isn't a mention of Sam and Dean being god-like or Chuck being actual God instead of god-like. I don't think that Dabb is that deep that you have to read between the lines. What he says is usually what appears on screen unfortunately.

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh god, you weren't kidding. I may puke.

I felt like puking after I read it.

[ILoveReading]

So to summerize this article:

Dean was in purgatory before and it had an effect on him, so it was important he go back to purgatory becasue he was there and it had an effect on him,

But let me tell you all the ways your should be afraid for God like Sam.  He is going to go through all this important stuff.  Its a good thing he has Eileen because she'll keep Sam grounded because she's a boots on the ground character.

So while, I always felt that Dean deserved more than wind beneath Sam's wings that was was always his job.  To look after Sam and keep him grounded but apparently that isn't even his storyline this season. 

But Sam is God-Like, and Eileen is grounded, what is Dean purpose?  I certainly don't blieve Dabb see him as God-Like, and he's not even a grounded character, apparently.

This is not me being facetious or bitch/jerk, I'm honestly wondering?

[Myrelle]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So to summerize this article:

Dean was in purgatory before and it had an effect on him, so it was important he go back to purgatory becasue he was there and it had an effect on him,

But let me tell you all the ways your should be afraid for God like Sam.  He is going to go through all this important stuff.  Its a good thing he has Eileen because she'll keep Sam grounded because she's a boots on the ground character.

So while, I always felt that Dean deserved more than wind beneath Sam's wings that was was always his job.  To look after Sam and keep him grounded but apparently that isn't even his storyline this season. 

But Sam is God-Like, and Eileen is grounded, what is Dean purpose?  I certainly don't blieve Dabb see him as God-Like, and he's not even a grounded character, apparently.

This is not me being facetious or bitch/jerk, I'm honestly wondering?

This is exactly what was said IMO, too-especially the bolded part.

 

[DeeDee79]

I also didn't fully agree with this:

"There are certainly moments where Dean changed fundamentally: losing his father was one, going to hell was one, going to purgatory was one, the return of their mother was one. "

because I think that having the MOC changed Dean more fundamentally than Mary returning. Even though she is his mother she was barely apart of his life when she returned. I would even put losing Sam in season 2 changed Dean more than Mary returning.

[ILoveReading]

Reading Dabb's thoughts on the ending and how its been peppered in to previous episodes, with all the Jack pimping, I'm guess the spec that he becomes the new God is right on.

Cas becames his right hand man/arch angel.  Sam and Eileen decide to hit the road as hunters.  Dean retires and opens a bar. 

Or Sam dies killing God, and Dean opens a bar.

I can see Jensen having problems with both those endings.

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Reading Dabb's thoughts on the ending and how its been peppered in to previous episodes, with all the Jack pimping, I'm guess the spec that he becomes the new God is right on.

Cas becames his right hand man/arch angel.  Sam and Eileen decide to hit the road as hunters.  Dean retires and opens a bar. 

Or Sam dies killing God, and Dean opens a bar.

I can see Jensen having problems with both those endings.

I'm pretty sure Jack is going to wind up the Big Hero.  As for the rest--since Dabb was so adamant that this was a "permanent" ending, I can't see him going with anything that would allow the band to get back together (like retirement or getting married).  I'm guessing he's thinking death is final, which of course assumes that he doesn't know his own show.  

[Casseiopeia]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Reading Dabb's thoughts on the ending and how its been peppered in to previous episodes, with all the Jack pimping, I'm guess the spec that he becomes the new God is right on.

Cas becames his right hand man/arch angel.  Sam and Eileen decide to hit the road as hunters.  Dean retires and opens a bar. 

Or Sam dies killing God, and Dean opens a bar.

I can see Jensen having problems with both those endings.

I think Dabb should just stop talking. He isn't very good at it.

[DeeDee79]

7 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think Dabb should just stop talking. He isn't very good at it.

Yes please!

[Shannonsspirit]

19 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I'm pretty sure Jack is going to wind up the Big Hero.  As for the rest--since Dabb was so adamant that this was a "permanent" ending, I can't see him going with anything that would allow the band to get back together (like retirement or getting married).  I'm guessing he's thinking death is final, which of course assumes that he doesn't know his own show.  

The fact that he mentioned it at all, and as, "someone else's problem, leads me to believe he knows many are not happy with his vision and execution. When combined with Chuck repeating, "nothing really ends," in the recent trailer, I imagine something is likely in the works. He seems to be saying that in spite of his best effort to really end it, it will continue.

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think Dabb should just stop talking. He isn't very good at it.

And writing.

And show-running.

And dressing himself. 

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

This is exactly what was said IMO, too-especially the bolded part.

 

Purgatory brought out the best bamf hunter ever in Dean. He came back at his best. His skills were almost preternatural post-purgatory. He was human however he owned Purgatory.  That's what they need now. That guy... BAMF blood and gore covered Dean.

[Aeryn13]

Pretty much a typical Dabb interview. He even spoiled again that the link will be wrapped up "sooner than later", meaning in this next episode.

And yeah, for a writer, he really has absolutely no way with words. Chuck and Sam are "god-like" compared to Eileen who is maybe not normal but not them. Jesus, Chuck IS God and Sam certainly isn't God-like.

I believe I know what he means, something that came to me when rockstar-Lucifer bitched at them how God had ditched them all. He adressed them as equals, even if he may not have wanted to. But Dabb seriously can't get that across without going uber-propping.

Predictably Dean gets a "he goes to Purgatory, to go to Purgatory, it means nothing, I couldn't carw less about the character" mention.

[PAForrest]

13 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is the part of the interview that made me see red. I hate Dabb so much I can't even articulate how deeply my hate runs. The only, only, only part of the interview that I liked was when Dabb said: "Should “Supernatural” come back, most likely that’s going to be somebody else’s problem. " If they bring it back for more stories as Jensen and Jared said that they would be open to at least we won't have to worry about Dabb being involved. Small consolation but I'll take it.

Since the Js (most likely Jensen) pulled the plug on Dabb's watch, even if especially while they were being courted by Pedowitz to stay, I always thought the unsaid caveat about being open to coming back for a tv movie or whatever was that Dabb would not be involved. In Jensen's mind, probably almost none of the current production staff would be involved. I mean, you don't come right out and tell fans you'd love to bring back writers from the past for a last season if you're super duper happy with the staff you have.

But, oh boy, I've said it over and over and over again that Dabb resented the hell out of the show, which is why he's scorching the earth on his way out the door. You don't refer to your current job as a "problem" if you love it. He doesn't, and that's what I don't understand about Dabb's fans. Forget the mind-numbing superficiality and just plain ol' bad writing, zero canon and/or follow through. A lot of average viewers are perfectly happy with that. Just flip through your channel guide one day, it's obvious.

But to love a showrunner who outright hates the show he's in charge of, one that you supposedly really like, is practically Orwellian.

Edited January 15, 2020 by PAForrest

[Casseiopeia]

I really think Dabb hates the fans more than he hates the show. The fans didn't embrace his "super awesome" pilot Bloodlines and he has never forgotten or forgiven them/us. I think he was also pissed that Carver was named showrunner instead of him back in S8. He is determined to shove his "vision" down our throats no matter what it does to his stars, the fans or the legacy of Supernatural. He seems determined to destroy the show in every possible way as some sort of payback.

Dabb was handed the keys to the Lamborghini  and he never even bothered to take it for a spin.