S05.E08: Horses

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A last-ditch medical trial sends Ray on a dark mission in New York. Alone in LA, Abby turns to Terry and Bridget to help her make the toughest decision of her life.

Promo:

 

Clip:

[yourmomiseasy]

Gee, this sounds like it is going to be a great episode.  

[Mindthinkr]

What was Abby's fixation with the picture on the wall by the pool table? Cave Hill? 

What did Ray get from the Mossad agent? I thought he was getting treatment for Abby. Not something to give the boy who took her place in the cancer drug trials (now her daughter's boyfriend). 

[TexasGal]

24 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

What was Abby's fixation with the picture on the wall by the pool table? Cave Hill? 

What did Ray get from the Mossad agent? I thought he was getting treatment for Abby. Not something to give the boy who took her place in the cancer drug trials (now her daughter's boyfriend). 

He got meningitis or whatever he came down with that excluded him from the trial.

I think this is the only episode where Bridget wasn’t annoying.  (Maybe bec she was helping kill Abby?). She was strong and brave.  

Last week I wanted more of an Avi explanation and we did get that this week.  Did Ray just leave him in jail?

Edited October 2, 2017 by TexasGal

[Mindthinkr]

6 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

He got meningitis or whatever he came down with that excluded him from the trial.

I think this is the only episode where Bridget wasn’t annoying.  (Maybe bec she was helping kill Abby?). She was strong and brave.  

Last week I wanted more of an Avi explanation and we did get that this week.  Did Ray just leave him in jail?

It looked like he left him in jail. That was a dark episode. 

[tomsmom]

Jeez after listening to Patti Smith’s “Land” for the whole episode I was ready for a swig of Abby’s Sprite. 

[paigow]

Lena probably caught the next red-eye to bail Avi out...

Those pills did not kill Abby....that craptastic "song" did...blah blah Johnny blah blah

[Mickmickie]

Very dark - made me cry!! Now we know why Ray was charged regarding a family fight. Wow. 

[Adultosaurus]

1 hour ago, tomsmom said:

Jeez after listening to Patti Smith’s “Land” for the whole episode I was ready for a swig of Abby’s Sprite. 

Ginger Ale. :)

[scrb]

If the kid didn't get the trial, how did he survive?

Basically infecting him should have been a death sentence.  

Ray's a predator.  Being an abuse victim doesn't absolve this act.  Tony Soprano had mental problems and he also was a predator.

He steamrolled everyone close to him, including Abby, to try to effect what he wanted, not anyone else.  

Bridget and Terry honored Abby's wishes.  Abby would never have accepted getting that surgery at the kid's expense.

[crookedjackson44]

Why wasn't this the first episode of the season instead of the eighth?

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

 

Ray's a predator.  Being an abuse victim doesn't absolve this act. Tony Soprano had mental problems and he also was a predator.

He steamrolled everyone close to him, including Abby, to try to effect what he wanted, not anyone else.  

Ray is also a murderer. How many people has he killed? Tony Soprano was also a murderer. I think these characters are cleverly written so that instead of us despising them for their acts, they become likable in spite of their acts.

Objectively, Ray is an awful guy. But, he has appeal. In the real world, he would be locked up for good. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by DakotaLavender

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I think this is the only episode where Bridget wasn’t annoying.  (Maybe bec she was helping kill Abby?). She was strong and brave. 

ITA - even before the assisted suicide, she was being very sweet and strong with Abby in the scene where she was helping her get dressed for the bar. Bridget finally stopped being selfish and she was pretty awesome.

What I really loved is that Bridget didn't hesitate to help Abby. She didn't try to talk her out of it or postpone it. She accepted it and didn't try to stop her. To me, THAT is real love, not what Ray was doing which was ignoring what Abby wanted because he was being selfish.

Now I will be the first to admit that Mickey often deserves to get punched in the face because he has done a lot of selfish dickish things. BUT this is one of the few times when he didn't deserve to get punched. He was trying to get Ray to get out of Bridget's face (after he pushed her up against the wall and yelled at her).

Heh, I liked Avi's Mossad friend. I wish she could be friends with Lena and they could just go around kicking ass.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heh, I liked Avi's Mossad friend. 

She should know how to throw knives...instead of fumbling for her handgun...

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Now I will be the first to admit that Mickey often deserves to get punched in the face because he has done a lot of selfish dickish things. BUT this is one of the few times when he didn't deserve to get punched.

Kahhma is a bitch....

Edited October 2, 2017 by paigow

[preeya]

39 minutes ago, paigow said:

She should know how to throw knives...instead of fumbling for her handgun...

Kahhma is a bitch....

1

 

[jrlr]

9 hours ago, scrb said:

If the kid didn't get the trial, how did he survive?

Basically infecting him should have been a death sentence.  

Ray's a predator.  Being an abuse victim doesn't absolve this act.  Tony Soprano had mental problems and he also was a predator.

He steamrolled everyone close to him, including Abby, to try to effect what he wanted, not anyone else.  

Bridget and Terry honored Abby's wishes.  Abby would never have accepted getting that surgery at the kid's expense.

The kid is dying.  He and Bridget talked about his good attitude in the light of this, and it wasn't until after he learned about having been infected so he couldn't be in the trial that he got angry.

Ray is a disgusting narcissistic sociopath with no redeeming qualities, period.  Even the sociopathic Tony Soprano was more nuanced than Ray, who lost the last tiny bit of goodwill I felt for him last night.  I knew it wouldn't happen but I was hoping the Mossad doctor would k.o. him and get out before he could get the syringe.

The Patti Smith song was perfectly used, but it was always and still is incredibly hard to listen to.

[paigow]

37 minutes ago, jrlr said:

The Patti Smith song was perfectly used, but it was always and still is incredibly hard to listen to.

That song had coherent lyrics and a message? Kudos to you for enduring it....

[jrlr]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

That song had coherent lyrics and a message? Kudos to you for enduring it....

I don't agree with everything in this article about Patti Smith, but I thought you might find it interesting:  http://observer.com/2015/12/the-staggering-genius-of-patti-smiths-horses/

[Mindthinkr]

16 minutes ago, jrlr said:

I don't agree with everything in this article about Patti Smith, but I thought you might find it interesting:  http://observer.com/2015/12/the-staggering-genius-of-patti-smiths-horses/

Her book about her time with Robert Mapplethorpe "Just Kids" was a good read and gives a lot of insight into both her and RM. 

[paigow]

Abby: Terry..ya gotta get my pills..

Terry: WTF? Drugstores was delivering stuff BEFORE the internet.....

Thanks for the link @jrlr .... but beyond the obvious painting to album title connection, the plot connection to song escapes me.

Edited October 2, 2017 by paigow

[jrlr]

56 minutes ago, paigow said:

Abby: Terry..ya gotta get my pills..

Terry: WTF? Drugstores was delivering stuff BEFORE the internet.....

Thanks for the link @jrlr .... but beyond the obvious painting to album title connection, the plot connection to song escapes me.

I agree about the plot - the lyrics don't have much if anything to do with it.  I was thinking more that the song is about dying or getting ready to die  (at least I think that's what it's about, but then again when I first heard it in the 70's I thought it was about heroin), and that Abby seemed truly ready to leave this life.  Not just at peace with the idea, but connected to it on a primal level.  Then I think what the fuck?  It's ABBY we're talking about!  Well whatever it means, for me that song is draining and unnerving, and it seemed to fit the mood.  

[Puddy]

What are they going to do next?

Have a car run over the dog?

 

On 10/1/2017 at 10:08 PM, tomsmom said:

Jeez after listening to Patti Smith’s “Land” for the whole episode I was ready for a swig of Abby’s Sprite. 

Ginger ale.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Puddy

[LoveLeigh]

Did Ray get some meningitis virus from that Mossad agent? 

Wow, Ray is really a downright dirty guy. He poisons that cancer patient so his own wife can get the spot and then he goes to the bar and starts a brawl. 

In real life, we would have nothing but contempt for him but because he is the "anti-hero" we give him passes and maintain the "crush" as if he can do no wrong, and if he does, so what. 

I am starting not to like this man. Maybe. 

[Puddy]

23 hours ago, scrb said:

If the kid didn't get the trial, how did he survive?

Basically infecting him should have been a death sentence.  

Ray's a predator.  Being an abuse victim doesn't absolve this act.  Tony Soprano had mental problems and he also was a predator.

He steamrolled everyone close to him, including Abby, to try to effect what he wanted, not anyone else.  

Bridget and Terry honored Abby's wishes.  Abby would never have accepted getting that surgery at the kid's expense.

Did you notice his "why did you leave me" howling?

It's not all about you, Ray-Ray.

 

53 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Did Ray get some meningitis virus from that Mossad agent? 

Wow, Ray is really a downright dirty guy. He poisons that cancer patient so his own wife can get the spot and then he goes to the bar and starts a brawl. 

In real life, we would have nothing but contempt for him but because he is the "anti-hero" we give him passes and maintain the "crush" as if he can do no wrong, and if he does, so what. 

I am starting not to like this man. Maybe. 

Yes. It was to make the kid sick but not kill him and open up a spot in the clinical trial.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Puddy

[Puddy]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

That song had coherent lyrics and a message? Kudos to you for enduring it....

I was thanking God for the mute button and closed captioning.

[Puddy]

Poor Avi. He gets beaten to a pulp for Ray and ends up a junkie.

Lena seems to be the most decent person on the show. I admire her loyalty. She does not deserve to be let down. I wish she was my friend.

[scrb]

12 hours ago, jrlr said:

The kid is dying.  He and Bridget talked about his good attitude in the light of this, and it wasn't until after he learned about having been infected so he couldn't be in the trial that he got angry.

Ray is a disgusting narcissistic sociopath with no redeeming qualities, period.  Even the sociopathic Tony Soprano was more nuanced than Ray, who lost the last tiny bit of goodwill I felt for him last night.  I knew it wouldn't happen but I was hoping the Mossad doctor would k.o. him and get out before he could get the syringe.

The Patti Smith song was perfectly used, but it was always and still is incredibly hard to listen to.

If he didn't get in the trial, his hair grew back as if healthy?

[Puddy]

17 minutes ago, scrb said:

If he didn't get in the trial, his hair grew back as if healthy?

Did he ever have treatment that would cause him to lose it? 

He had cancer and then meningitis and he seems to be resigned to the fact that he is dying so no treatments?

[Puddy]

I hope Ray realizes flushing the pills forced Abby's hand.

The last glimmer of hope was Bridget asking not one more day? 

It would have been nice to see the dog on the bed, too.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Puddy

[paigow]

Abby would have likely survived the trial with a passable quality of life...Ray is ALWAYS right...The needs of the one outweighed the needs of the many

[jrlr]

9 hours ago, Puddy said:

Did he ever have treatment that would cause him to lose it? 

He had cancer and then meningitis and he seems to be resigned to the fact that he is dying so no treatments?

I assumed from the way the kid looked when Ray injected the drip that  he had already had chemo and was being prepped for surgery.  There are a lot of cancers that use this protocol in order to shrink tumors before surgically removing them.  If that's what it was, his hair would grow back, at least some of it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

How did Ray know that if he got someone disqualified from the trial, Abby would automatically get moved into it?

Poor Avi. The guy really self-destructed. With not a little nudge from the Russian mob but still, I imagine Ray would've helped him go into rehab for his addiction if he'd asked.

Is 2018 finally going to be the year the Emmys recognize Liev Schreiber? I think this episode should get all the awards.

[Mindthinkr]

10 hours ago, Puddy said:

It would have been nice to see the dog on the bed, too.

Agree. Even when I'm just sick with something, I always like that my pets join me to comfort and keep me company. That unconditional love would have been nice for Abby. 

[Dobian]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:44 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Ray is also a murderer. How many people has he killed? Tony Soprano was also a murderer. I think these characters are cleverly written so that instead of us despising them for their acts, they become likable in spite of their acts.

Objectively, Ray is an awful guy. But, he has appeal. In the real world, he would be locked up for good. 

I liked Tony a lot more than Ray.  When Ray was balling over his dead wife, I felt no sympathy for him, and was proven right when he later assaulted his daughter and attacked his family at the bar.  He cares about no one except himself and what he wants.  He committed the despicable act of infecting a sick young man in a desperate attempt to save Abby, not because he truly cares about Abby but to absolve himself for being such a shitty husband over the years.  If he cared about Abby he would have let her die peacefully.

It was a good episode for explaining the events that have happened this season, including the mystery of why Avi had fallen out with Ray.  Now we know.  Kudos to Paula Malcomson, who I thought did a good job of playing the death with dignity thing with Abby.  And I agree that Bridget actually wasn't annoying.  She's been pretty good this season, thankfully.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Dobian

[scrb]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

How did Ray know that if he got someone disqualified from the trial, Abby would automatically get moved into it?

Poor Avi. The guy really self-destructed. With not a little nudge from the Russian mob but still, I imagine Ray would've helped him go into rehab for his addiction if he'd asked.

Is 2018 finally going to be the year the Emmys recognize Liev Schreiber? I think this episode should get all the awards.

Sounded like Lena hacked the lottery system for the trials.

Also led to believe that Abby was the "perfect" candidate for the trials.  But would she be really?  Middle aged woman who smokes profusely and refused breast cancer mastectomy.

 

Also can't figure out why Avi would hide his addiction from Ray.  Or even from Lena, who would have tried to get him help.  Seems like Avi is too close to the family that he wouldn't confide what he was going through to them.

 

I suspect they had to come up with a story to show Ray doing something very questionable -- on the flight back, Ray was drinking himself into a stupor and looking at the kid's picture -- to make this plot for this season.

 

This may be the first time he's harmed an innocent bystander?  Tony Soprano gets his money from exploiting people, putting them through misery.  There was a montage in one season finale where they're having a party with his friends and family at his lavish home while the various small businesses who have to pay extortion to his gang are shown in absolute misery.

Ray is willing to steal when he's desperate, as he was going to help Mickey steal Primm's money, to pay off the Russians and keep his family safe.  But he's not pulling heists regularly, even though he's from Southey, which has been known to produce armed robbers.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Also can't figure out why Avi would hide his addiction from Ray.  Or even from Lena, who would have tried to get him help.  Seems like Avi is too close to the family that he wouldn't confide what he was going through to them.

It seemed to me that they knew he was using something but were choosing not to confront him about it. He was clearly high before the flight when they were at Ray's office, and then on the plane when he came out of the restroom complaining about sinus trouble Ray all but rolled his eyes. They probably had no idea how bad off he was though.

[atlantaloves]

Oh man, I don't know if I am going to be able to get through this season.....but I will tell you this, I am perfectly fine with how Abby decided to leave this world...it was her decision, Ray, you are an ass hat, you killed that young man with cancer, FOR NOTHING. Jesus, this show is really really really getting to be more than ridiculous.  I am just watching it for Liev's man candy, but damn, the story lines ARE INSANE. Okay, I am through bitching now. (p.s. yes, let Micky rot in jail, thank you.)

[Puddy]

6 hours ago, Dobian said:

I liked Tony a lot more than Ray.  When Ray was balling over his dead wife, I felt no sympathy for him, and was proven right when he later assaulted his daughter and attacked his family at the bar.  He cares about no one except himself and what he wants.  He committed the despicable act of infecting a sick young man in a desperate attempt to save Abby, not because he truly cares about Abby but to absolve himself for being such a shitty husband over the years.  If he cared about Abby he would have let her die peacefully.

It was a good episode for explaining the events that have happened this season, including the mystery of why Avi had fallen out with Ray.  Now we know.  Kudos to Paula Malcomson, who I thought did a good job of playing the death with dignity thing with Abby.  And I agree that Bridget actually wasn't annoying.  She's been pretty good this season, thankfully.

I don't even give him credit for that much.  He injected the kid for one reason and it was not to save Abby's life.  It was so he was not alone.

Why did you leave me?  That's what he screamed at her bedside.

She did not leave you Ray.  She saved herself and she did it on her terms.

Surprise.  

I wonder if we will see him finally learning this lesson.

[Puddy]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

Oh man, I don't know if I am going to be able to get through this season.....but I will tell you this, I am perfectly fine with how Abby decided to leave this world...it was her decision, Ray, you are an ass hat, you killed that young man with cancer, FOR NOTHING. Jesus, this show is really really really getting to be more than ridiculous.  I am just watching it for Liev's man candy, but damn, the story lines ARE INSANE. Okay, I am through bitching now. (p.s. yes, let Micky rot in jail, thank you.)

Me loves his slightly bow-legged stroll.

Hot damn.

I knows he smells good, too.

[BigDfromLA]

What an absolutely horrible song!! That was actually recorded by an artist and released for public purchase? A toddler pounding on a piano keyboard would make better music.

Ray was absolutely cruel to Bridget. She had just lost her mother and he had no interest in comforting a daughter he supposedly loves...instead screams at her to get the f... out.

What will happen to the relationship between Ray and Terry, moving forward? Maybe Terry should move to New York permanently and work as a boxing trainer there.

[WaltersHair]

I'm pissed at the writers for taking Ray this dark. Yeah, he's a scumbag but until now the audience could live with what he's done. Giving meningitis to a kid? No. And yes, there are different kinds of meningitis and none of them are terribly pleasant or easy to survive. I won't even mention the epidemic he could have started in New York and then spread on a plane all the way back to California.

Abby and Bridgette were tolerable. Go figure.

The next person Ray needs to hunt down is the person who thought running that music all episode was a good idea. Strap him/her to a chair and play it for 24 hours straight. Then start over.

At least we didn't have to see the 'starlet'.

[Puddy]

2 hours ago, BigDfromLA said:

Ray was absolutely cruel to Bridget. She had just lost her mother and he had no interest in comforting a daughter he supposedly loves...instead screams at her to get the f... out.

Not sticking up for Ray, just pointing out facts~

Abby was dead and it was an obvious suicide.  He had already dumped out one bottle of pills and the evidence of another bottle was right there.  

Other than Abby, who was there?

Bridget.

Terry had already left for the bar but Ray did not know that.

It only makes sense that Ray would be violently angry at the person it looked like helped Abby commit suicide.  Remember, this decision was made and finally acted upon specifically when Ray was out of town.  Also remember, Ray tried Abby's and Bridget's cell phones.  

I would have been mad at her too knowing I was calling both of them and neither answered.  Granted, Ray was too upset but why on earth would Terry leave the kid at home alone and drive to the bar?

Either call the bar or take the kid with you.

Total clusterfuck.

[paigow]

12 hours ago, Puddy said:

 

 but why on earth would Terry leave the kid at home alone and drive to the bar?

S.O.P. for the Donovans....

[Dobian]

I assume that Terry - who is very conscientious - offered to take her to the bar, but Bridget wanted to stay close to her mother for awhile and grieve alone.

[Mindthinkr]

16 hours ago, Puddy said:

I knows he smells good, too.

That's the first thing that Kelly Ripa said when she interviewed him on her show. He also looks so good in his suits. I was noticing he always has an abundance of pressed white shirts (as the RD character) 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Mindthinkr
Clarification

[ElectricBoogaloo]

At the beginning of the season, I didn't understand why Bridget was being so cold to Ray (I assumed it was a combination of her being bratty, grieving for her mother, and possibly being mad at him about Abby's death) but seeing how he treated her in this episode makes it a lot more understandable. First he yells at her to get the fuck out of the bedroom which was bad enough but the way he was with her at the bar was horrible. Even though she's known for a while what Ray does for a living, I think that was one of the first times she realized how scary he could be. She's always been his little princess no matter what so that must have been an eye opener for her. 

Since Abby was never in the clinical trial, I'm still not clear how Smitty and Bridget met. When she showed up at his bar earlier this season, he knew who she was and that Abby was her mom so they must have met before Abby died. Now I'm imagining a pre-clinical trial mixer where everyone gets to size up their competition for the limited number of available slots. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TV Anonymous]

I guess I am not smart enough for this show, and the flashbacks and imaginary scenes do not help. How did Abby die? Did she commit suicide or did she die in Las Vegas by convulsion that was caused by untreated head trauma happened in their vehicle accident?

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Since Abby was never in the clinical trial, I'm still not clear how Smitty and Bridget met. When she showed up at his bar earlier this season, he knew who she was and that Abby was her mom so they must have met before Abby died. Now I'm imagining a pre-clinical trial mixer where everyone gets to size up their competition for the limited number of available slots. 

I wondered about this too. There is a Sloan Kettring in Los Angeles, but maybe the actual surgery takes place in New York (only one specialist/team). Maybe the the blond kid is from LA but moved to New York?

It seems like the writers picked New York so Ray would be out of communication for a day so Abby could commit suicide with some time to spare. What I want to know is how Abby got 90 Seconal so soon after filling the last one.

[Puddy]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

I assume that Terry - who is very conscientious - offered to take her to the bar, but Bridget wanted to stay close to her mother for awhile and grieve alone.

And that's why Terry should have called the bar.

Remember, Ray called Abby and Bridget but not Terry. No missed calls on Terry's phone.

Who would leave Bridget alone?

Too silly of a set-up for the bar fight.

[jrlr]

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

I guess I am not smart enough for this show, and the flashbacks and imaginary scenes do not help. How did Abby die? Did she commit suicide or did she die in Las Vegas by convulsion that was caused by untreated head trauma happened in their vehicle accident?

I THINK this is right:  Abby was dying of cancer (possibly of the brain, possibly because her untreated breast cancer had metasticized).  The convulsion in Las Vegas was a result of her illness, not of the head tauma in the car crash.  When Abby did not get into the clinical trial  - and she seemed far too advanced in her disease to be accepted by, let alone survive a clinical trial - she decided she wanted to be able to die when and how she chose.  After the bar opening she took the sleeping pills that killed her.