S07.E17: Face-Off

[Primetimer]

The gang's new love pentagon makes everyone feel bad at a charity hockey game, because why not.

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[Primetimer]

We've collected all the most important imagery from Face-Off!

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[WhosThatGirl]

Yes seriously.. what's up with the Bane stalker voice? Ugh. Also yes.. I'm so over stalker redux.. even just listening to the podcast recap of it(I'm not watching the episodes anymore).

[maxineofarc]

JESUS. TRACY. DUMP HIM. HE SUCKS.

[JennB]

Whatever happened to Natalia Cigliuti?

(This is rhetorical. I don't actually care.)

[Earmuffs Mom]

As an attorney, I can attest that at a hearing to make a TRO permanent, a hearing with alleged stalking would typically not take place in a judge's chamber with everyone toe to toe.  Typically, it is an actual hearing with testimony, Donna would have to be present, it would be in the courtroom, and they would be sitting at separate tables.  Even if you could stretch credulity to have it in chambers, David would not be back there as Donna's boyfriend.  So ridiculous.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

JESUS. TRACY. DUMP HIM. HE SUCKS.

Everyone should dump Brandon. They are all too good for him. Except kelly those two judgey judges deserve each other. 

[WoodyCee]

Whatever happened to Natalia Cigliuti?

(This is rhetorical. I don't actually care.)

She was in this other Spelling soap that lasted not even a season called Pacific Palisades. Some channel once did a marathon when I was recovering from my wisdom teeth extraction surgery and I loved it. But I haven't seen it in 20 years so who's to say how good it actually was..,

[WoodyCee]

I've started talking to my children Donna's stalker's voice. It cracks me up and annoys them.

[Nanna]

That's gotta be the coldest response ever to someone saying "I love you". And Brandon is supposed to be the good guy, the boy scout and so on?! 

He and Kelly deserve each other. She's the worst friend to Donna and generally just the worst. It's actually kind of involuntary funny that Donna consistenly through the show has been the good and lotal friend, but when she needs friends no one really has time for her. 

[TeeVee329]

2 hours ago, WoodyCee said:

She was in this other Spelling soap that lasted not even a season called Pacific Palisades. Some channel once did a marathon when I was recovering from my wisdom teeth extraction surgery and I loved it. But I haven't seen it in 20 years so who's to say how good it actually was..,

I remember "Pacific Palisades"!  And Natalia Cigliuti was involved in a classically soapy "you think you're my really younger sister, but you're actually my daughter!" storyline.

Back to this show, oh how I wish someone would have really called Kelly out re: going after Tom chiefly to mess with Valerie.  She's such a hypocrite.

[Earmuffs Mom]

"Stealing your beauty" is one of the most savage things I have ever heard said to a pregnant woman.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

I remember "Pacific Palisades"!  And Natalia Cigliuti was involved in a classically soapy "you think you're my really younger sister, but you're actually my daughter!" storyline.

Back to this show, oh how I wish someone would have really called Kelly out re: going after Tom chiefly to mess with Valerie.  She's such a hypocrite.

Yeah but who would? Steve was the only one who actually tried. Donna may have if she wasn't dealing with a stalker who may or may not be Bane. David may have as well if he and Kelly shared scenes together really anymore.

[hks]

"Stealing your beauty" is one of the most savage things I have ever heard said to a pregnant woman.

Agree. I know you all hate Kelly - and it seems Jennie Garth is also pretty much a bitch about things - but that's just a shitty thing to say to and about pregnant women. Maybe we can retire this particular pregnancy myth?

[benteen]

Yes about how badly the writers handled the subject and how badly Donna's friends are dismissing her when they KNOW that she was almost raped (by a guy who was originally looking for Claire as I recall).  Though this certainly isn't the first time that the writers handled a serious subject like this badly.  Remember when Brenda was working at the teen crisis hotline and a girl called to talk about how she was date raped?  When we meet the two rapists at the end, they are so cartoonish and over-the-top that even a blind person would have been able to instantly identify them as rapists.  People who committed that kind of horrible act  are often good at hiding their true intentions.  But those two practically had the word "RAPIST" tattooed onto their forehead. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by benteen

[bml1980]

The picture of Donna holding the huge knife on the other page reminded me of Scream, which was doing well at the box office the same time this aired. I don't know how far in advance the episodes were filmed, but the creepy voice and phone calls make me think this might have been a response to that. Not that I want to give the writers an out, as they've inflicted so much pain on so many, but I do remember other soaps doing slasher-y plot lines at the time, so maybe there was a network note to Wes Craven up the joint a little? That would also assume that Fox gave a crap about 90210 at this point in its run though.

Regarding Natalia Cigliuti, what's funny is that she was a regular on Saved by the Bell: The New Class, playing a character that was basically the "Kelly Kapowski" of the group.

[MCMLXXVII]

13 minutes ago, bml1980 said:

The picture of Donna holding the huge knife on the other page reminded me of Scream, which was doing well at the box office the same time this aired. I don't know how far in advance the episodes were filmed, but the creepy voice and phone calls make me think this might have been a response to that. Not that I want to give the writers an out, as they've inflicted so much pain on so many, but I do remember other soaps doing slasher-y plot lines at the time, so maybe there was a network note to Wes Craven up the joint a little? That would also assume that Fox gave a crap about 90210 at this point in its run though.

Yup, I had the same theory on the last episode thread.

[adam807]

Me to Val.

[adam807]

Wait...KitchenAid mixers are expensive. (And, you know, useful in the kitchen.) Why is Nat using one for decoration?!?

[TeeVee329]

Oh nothing, just the opening credits of "Pacific Palisades" on YT.  Looks like there's some episodes too.  How did I not remember that Michelle Stafford is the older sister-slash-mom!:

Edited September 12, 2017 by TeeVee329

[Racj82]

22 hours ago, JennB said:

Whatever happened to Natalia Cigliuti?

(This is rhetorical. I don't actually care.)

My favorite thing about this actress is that she was basically cast as the poor man's Kelly kopowski on saved by the bell the new class playing the object of affection for the lead like Tiffani did. Then, I didn't see her for years and she turned up on that legal show for tnt called raising the bar for tnt maybe 8 years ago. That show starred...Mark Paul Gosselar. Good old Zack Morris. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Racj82

[Cekrypton1]

Oh nothing, just the opening credits of "Pacific Palisades" on YT.  Looks like there's some episodes too.  How did I not remember that Michelle Stafford is the older sister-slash-mom!:

OMG casting director! You already have a Lucky Vanous--you don't need a Joel Wyner as well.

[Cekrypton1]

How could the writers have missed the low-hanging fruit of Tom replying, "Just like you are?" when Val accuses Kelly of just using him?

[CurlyATX]

I hate to be on the side of Kelly, ever, but I gotta say, Val sure can dish it out but doesn't seem to realize that this means she can take it. If Tom wants to date Kelly, then all Val has to do is act like she's happy about it and Kelly will lose interest fast. I just hate how Val has to grovel for him later. (spoiler)

As for the "I love you" reply... sheesh, Brandon is indeed the worst. It's not like Tracey didn't have other offers (ranch guy). Brandon doesn't seem like he's all that great in bed either.

[Tara Ariano]

17 hours ago, hks said:

Agree. I know you all hate Kelly - and it seems Jennie Garth is also pretty much a bitch about things - but that's just a shitty thing to say to and about pregnant women. Maybe we can retire this particular pregnancy myth?

I don't actually believe that's a real thing! She just looked REAL rough in the harsh daylight of that scene, particularly next to the impeccably moisturized Tiffani-Amber Thiessen.

[Earmuffs Mom]

For the record, I was commenting on your sister's mother-in-law, not how you used it in the podcast.  LOL

[yousetmeupyoucrud]

Does Kelly no longer care about her rep now that she isn't in high school? Because going after Tom to make Val mad kind of seems like something a slut would do. 

[atlanticslide]

So I'm supposed to believe that a man who attempted to violently rape a woman who he'd essentially kidnapped and then bound and gagged has been so reformed after two-ish years in prison that the first thing he does upon getting out of prison is try to protect said woman? Right. 

Ugh, Tracy and Brandon. With Susan, with Emily, even with Kelly, you can see what the writers were going for and why they might go for Brandon (kind of. Susan's interest in Brandon is still a bit of a question mark, but at least he was interested in her in return, unlike Tracy). With Tracy, it's like they knew they had to have this character crush on Brandon but didn't care enough to write why she'd be so into him. So all they ever did was write her lines about how perfect and wonderful he is and how much integrity and discretion or whatever he has, but never actually wrote any scenes with him displaying any of these "wonderful" personality traits. I feel like we're supposed to be seeing him as Perfect Boyfriend material, except even by Brandon standards, there's been nothing going on in that area this season - he hasn't really done anything all season that Tracy's actually seen except get Tracy drunk before a TV broadcast, go without pants on a TV broadcast, and apply for a dumb fellowship. And yet she's so moony over him and now she's accidentally dropping "I love you"s?

Basically what I'm saying is that Tracy's an idiot. 

[JennB]

Oh nothing, just the opening credits of "Pacific Palisades" on YT.  Looks like there's some episodes too.  How did I not remember that Michelle Stafford is the older sister-slash-mom!:

This is fantastic. It's like a Who's Who of '90s soap stars.

[txhorns79]

Quote

The picture of Donna holding the huge knife on the other page reminded me of Scream, which was doing well at the box office the same time this aired. I don't know how far in advance the episodes were filmed, but the creepy voice and phone calls make me think this might have been a response to that. Not that I want to give the writers an out, as they've inflicted so much pain on so many, but I do remember other soaps doing slasher-y plot lines at the time, so maybe there was a network note to Wes Craven up the joint a little? That would also assume that Fox gave a crap about 90210 at this point in its run though.

Eh, there were a number of slasher flicks that had the killer make creepy phone calls to his potential victim before Scream ever came out.  I always think of "When a Stranger Calls..." with Carol Kane, which uses that gimmick and produces by far what must be one of the creepiest, tension filled and flat out frightening opening sequences I have seen. 
 

Quote

 

Basically what I'm saying is that Tracy's an idiot.

 

It's one of those situations where the writing for Tracy is so bad that she's essentially a blank slate whose main character trait is how boring she is.  

[WoodyCee]

Oh nothing, just the opening credits of "Pacific Palisades" on YT.  Looks like there's some episodes too.  How did I not remember that Michelle Stafford is the older sister-slash-mom!:

Amazing!!!!

[Tara Ariano]

23 hours ago, Earmuffs Mom said:

For the record, I was commenting on your sister's mother-in-law, not how you used it in the podcast.  LOL

Her years of saying it to anyone are probably behind her. :)

[Tara Ariano]

13 hours ago, atlanticslide said:

So I'm supposed to believe that a man who attempted to violently rape a woman who he'd essentially kidnapped and then bound and gagged has been so reformed after two-ish years in prison that the first thing he does upon getting out of prison is try to protect said woman? Right.

Aggressively "protecting" women is another strain of abusiveness.

[ZeroDiscipline]

  On 9/11/2017 at 11:08 AM, JennB said:

Whatever happened to Natalia Cigliuti?

(This is rhetorical. I don't actually care.)

She was in this other Spelling soap that lasted not even a season called Pacific Palisades. Some channel once did a marathon when I was recovering from my wisdom teeth extraction surgery and I loved it. But I haven't seen it in 20 years so who's to say how good it actually was..,

Those wisdom teeth meds make everything awesome too.

[ZeroDiscipline]

That's gotta be the coldest response ever to someone saying "I love you". And Brandon is supposed to be the good guy, the boy scout and so on?! 

He and Kelly deserve each other. She's the worst friend to Donna and generally just the worst. It's actually kind of involuntary funny that Donna consistenly through the show has been the good and lotal friend, but when she needs friends no one really has time for her. 

She used up all their goodwill getting them to demand she graduate even though she broke very clearly defined rules in which the repercussions were very clearly spelled out.

[ZeroDiscipline]

Oh nothing, just the opening credits of "Pacific Palisades" on YT.  Looks like there's some episodes too.  How did I not remember that Michelle Stafford is the older sister-slash-mom!:

Greg Evigan! BJ and the Bear, and My Two Dads!

[ZeroDiscipline]

good God. Why is Tracey and Brandon's relationship such a chore? These people are 22 years old. If you have to work so hard at it, DUMP!

[Klaw]

On 9/13/2017 at 5:27 AM, atlanticslide said:

So I'm supposed to believe that a man who attempted to violently rape a woman who he'd essentially kidnapped and then bound and gagged has been so reformed after two-ish years in prison that the first thing he does upon getting out of prison is try to protect said woman? Right. 

This. And what especially annoys me is how the writers think we are somehow supposed to feel a glimmer of sympathy for this POS man being "wrongfully accused"... in this instance (all the outrage when he realised the cops were watching him). And also for it to be seemingly understandable that the woman you terrorised and sexually assaulted would be willing to talk to you alone. Fuck right off, SLAN. And then talking shit about how she would have "loved" her rape. Gross, gross, gross. This show is the worst. 

And because it can't be said enough times. Donna is fortunate that she is fucking RICH. If she thinks it is Slan, why can't she move or go back to her parents house where security can be hired? Why is she fucking around at the beach house with a knife and a flash light? It's a Gotdam rental, not the Taj Mahal. 

Finally, I'm no criminal lawyer but ITA with the WTFery of that "hearing", or whatever the fuck it was. When I was a litigator, the only time we had conferences like that with the Judge in chambers was for pre-trial conferences or maybe a settlement conference. Was Donna suing Slan for damages in a wrongful stalking case? And pretty sure punching someone is a violation of parole, David should have just called the cops and had his ass sent back in. But I guess macho posturing is better. Fucking morons.

Tracy is an idiot, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it rings true to me her hung up on an asshole for no real reason. I've been there. Hopefully you learn from that kind of humiliation and go on to find the guy who doesn't look constipated when you tell him you love him. This is one of the many reasons why I do not miss my late teens/early 20s. *cringe* But Lord, do I miss my late teens/early 20s metabolism and bod! Hee!

How did I miss Pacific Palisades? I had no idea! 

Speaking of short-lived  nighttime soaps - anyone ever watch a doomed 90s show called Central Park West? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gJRkGeyFOQ As a de facto New Yorker, I loved me some CPW...

[hks]

  On September 11, 2017 at 5:54 PM, hks said:

Agree. I know you all hate Kelly - and it seems Jennie Garth is also pretty much a bitch about things - but that's just a shitty thing to say to and about pregnant women. Maybe we can retire this particular pregnancy myth?

I don't actually believe that's a real thing! She just looked REAL rough in the harsh daylight of that scene, particularly next to the impeccably moisturized Tiffani-Amber Thiessen.

I hear you. And yes, everyone is going to look harsh next to the gorgeousness of Tiffany-Amber Thiessen. (Side note: I once walked by her in NYC and she was flawless).

[CurlyATX]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:10 AM, Klaw said:

Tracy is an idiot, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it rings true to me her hung up on an asshole for no real reason. I've been there. Hopefully you learn from that kind of humiliation and go on to find the guy who doesn't look constipated when you tell him you love him. This is one of the many reasons why I do not miss my late teens/early 20s. *cringe* But Lord, do I miss my late teens/early 20s metabolism and bod! Hee!

How did I miss Pacific Palisades? I had no idea! 

Speaking of short-lived  nighttime soaps - anyone ever watch a doomed 90s show called Central Park West?

Central Park West- wasn't Jennie Garth in that?  I think she was trying to pull a Heather Locklear and be the blonde who saves shows. 

Ah, Tracy... I do like how after the breakup she fully tells B to fuck off and that they can't be friends because a friend wouldn't have treated her that way.  And I think in Hawaii they meet up again and she found someone (not sure if it was that ranch hand or not).  It became a mild point of jealousy for Kelly.   You're right in the sense of how maturity plays a big part in how quickly you recognize red flags.  I do mourn the ability I had to bounce back from an all nighter or binge drinking. 

[Klaw]

2 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I do mourn the ability I had to bounce back from an all nighter or binge drinking. 

AHAHAA! Me too. Ah, to have my 20something liver back again. 

2 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Central Park West- wasn't Jennie Garth in that?

I don't think so, but honestly, I have no idea. I haven't seen the show since it was on the air. lol.... i just remember loving the NYC angle...

[BBHN]

Quote

Central Park West- wasn't Jennie Garth in that?

Nope. That show was on at the same time as 90210. I believe Raquel Welch was brought in as the "Amanda Woodward" type character for CPW.

Edited September 18, 2017 by BBHN

[yousetmeupyoucrud]

Is this the episode where a bumbling Donna says to Clare after the security system freaks out "you know, we should really start using that thing?"

 

Stop trying to act, Tori. Everyone knows you can't. Also if it's going off then aren't they...using it?

[CurlyATX]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:15 PM, BBHN said:

Nope. That show was on at the same time as 90210. I believe Raquel Welch was brought in as the "Amanda Woodward" type character for CPW.

My bad... I looked it up, it was called The $treet.  Some wallstreet show I'm thinking.  Even I didn't watch it.

[benteen]

22 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

My bad... I looked it up, it was called The $treet.  Some wallstreet show I'm thinking.  Even I didn't watch it.

I never watched the show but I recall Fox commercials plugging The $treet and I remember that Jennifer Connelly was part of the cast about two years before she won her Oscar.