Season One Talk

[Irlandesa]

I don't like Sally either ever since the hook up.  And honestly, I'm tired of shows having basically one main female character (the Barry ratio is 5 men as regulars to 1 women regular) and the writers make that one female character a mess of a character.  And not in a good mess kind of way but in a "I don't know what we're doing with her" way.  She's the love interest.  But then his story/POV needs her to reject him.  And she's the bitch.  Then they don't give her enough funny.  The actress might be at fault but I largely blame the writing.  I look at all of the main characters and I know who they are and what they want.  I don't know why Sally does a lot of what she does.  I don't need her to be likable as a lot of the other characters aren't "likable" sorts but dammit, why is it so hard for her to be understandable?   Even some of the recurring characters have better character development.

The only Sally scene I enjoyed over the past two episodes or so was when her classmates called her out "doing things for the group."

[arc]

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

At this point, I feel like Fuches should swap out Barry for Taylor. Barry clearly wants to leave the job and Taylor is nothing if not enthusiastic about doing the job. I mean, sure, Taylor seems a little off his rocker but at least he isn't reluctant to do the job, unlike Barry. I know that's not going to happen since the show is about Barry and his two worlds colliding, but still.

Oh yeah, Taylor is mostly a better contract killer for Fuches, except that Barry usually wants to do the job properly and Taylor just wants to kill people. He was obviously going to Leeroy Jenkins the raid right from the last-minute briefing to the point where I was actually a little put off by the explicit pandering when he actually said it. But that kind of carelessness is going to get him killed sooner than later if he keeps working for men like Goran or Fuches. I think Barry's own thinking, that rather than having to kill him himself, he could let Taylor die in a reckless firefight.

On the other hand, that little indecisiveness almost got Barry killed when he didn't notice a guy sneak right up on him and conk him out.

Quote

Loved Natalie telling Sally that she sucks because Sally's "critique" during class was clearly all jealousy.

Sally's critique was def motivated by jealousy but Natalie was really quite terrible at that scene.

Last ep I said that Chris' two friends were a little scary but not particularly funny, but Taylor was very funny this ep.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

I totally read it as the friend sticking it to Sally, just turning the knife a little.

After watching the next episode:

Spoiler

I agree with you, @MrWhyt. Sally's erstwhile friend was "sticking it" to her, and I suspect her friend had been looking forward to that moment for a long time. Because I imagine Sally was always belittling and putting down her "friend's" acting abilities—ostensibly to be helpful, but not so much.

[juno]

50 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't like Sally either ever since the hook up.  And honestly, I'm tired of shows having basically one main female character (the Barry ratio is 5 men as regulars to 1 women regular) and the writers make that one female character a mess of a character.  And not in a good mess kind of way but in a "I don't know what we're doing with her" way.  She's the love interest.  But then his story/POV needs her to reject him.  And she's the bitch.  Then they don't give her enough funny.  The actress might be at fault but I largely blame the writing.  I look at all of the main characters and I know who they are and what they want.  I don't know why Sally does a lot of what she does.  I don't need her to be likable as a lot of the other characters aren't "likable" sorts but dammit, why is it so hard for her to be understandable?   Even some of the recurring characters have better character development.

The only Sally scene I enjoyed over the past two episodes or so was when her classmates called her out "doing things for the group."

I am really tired of this as well and it remains the weakness of shows in general. We will be introduced to a long line of mates for Barry but inevitably he will end up with Sally. Reminded me of Everwood with Ephram and Amy or even Ross and Rachel where you just say get it over with already and get them together. I think in both of those cases it over shadowed a decent show and wrecked the characters. I hope Barry is allowed to find another person but I haven't seen too many shows that have the guts to try it.

[shapeshifter]

Thinking of Barry in terms of his value as a life partner: Is there an appreciable difference between being a murderer for hire and being a serial killer?

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thinking of Barry in terms of his value as a life partner: Is there an appreciable difference between being a murderer for hire and being a serial killer?

Serial killers usually get caught. But how many of us would be secure with a spouse who could dispose of us handily without leaving a trace of evidence? :)

[tennisgurl]

On 4/23/2018 at 10:13 AM, Blakeston said:

I have to wonder if the idea is that Barry and Sally are drawn to each other because they both have some psychopathic tendencies.

 

I've kind of wondered if Sally will be drawn into Barry's life as a contract killer, and instead of being freaked out, she`ll think its cool, and will end up getting involved as well. I mean, she wont be any good at killing people (its clear that being a contract killer is a tough job) but I can see her having some latent psychopathic tendencies, maybe even more than Barry does. 

Really, everyone in that class kind of sucks, which makes sense. None of them seem to be really going anywhere in their careers, and the Fonzs acting book sounds all kinds of generic and rambling. Sally is probably the best, and she`s pretty average.

[Blakeston]

On 4/24/2018 at 5:26 AM, shapeshifter said:

Thinking of Barry in terms of his value as a life partner: Is there an appreciable difference between being a murderer for hire and being a serial killer?

A serial killer gets off on killing, and is almost certainly never going to stop unless they get caught, or illness or death stops them.

Hitmen generally have their own psychopathy issues, but it's possible that someone who isn't a psychopath could end up in that world (particularly if they were manipulated the way that Barry was.)

[Willows]

With each episode, i start to realize how boring Barry is as a character. So far he still hasn't moved the story further. The only distinguishable thing about him is that he has a sudden penchant for acting. Literally he's just there reacting to what the other supporting characters are telling him to do, there's nothing intriguing, ~relatable (hate using that word) or original about him... I like Bill Hader, and I get he’s supposed to be the one acting straight on the show but god I feel like skipping every scene he’s on. How am I supposed to believe he's a good hitman if he keep half-assing his missions every single episode. Also is “chechen gang being goofy and sending bitmojis XD" supposed to be dark comedy?! How are you going to make your audience think there are high stakes when that gang does not feel threatening whatsoever?

What’s the endgame for this show? Is it going to turn into a generic “mediocre actor following his dreams into superstardom” if he leaves his hitman career behind? Because if that’s the case they could’ve just save some time and made Sally the central character. Unlike Barry, you find yourself actually rooting for her. She’s actually more interesting, faced some struggles with each episode. Who cares if Barry dies? No other character would miss him. Fuches will settle for Taylor, the theater group will move on just like they did with Ryan. The Chechen gang will do their business as usual, and the investigation will close. He’s not integral to the story at all.

Also for the people here saying Sally’s a bitch. I mean of course she would change her attitude; the girl’s just faced unwanted advances from her agent then got rejected from the audition because she refused to go along. It’s logical that she would stay away from Barry being over protective because that’s how she’s dealing with that experience.

Anyway this show feels very useless. Killing Eve is much more fun (A show where the hitman get the job perfectly done). I barely laugh, or care about any character here (except for Winkler and Goldberg). I would say though, Hader sticking up for himself during the Macbeth debate and the raid scene were good.

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Are we supposed to like her, feel pity for her.

Maybe the writers are trying to show her as so many actors are: superficially charming but relentlessly narcissistic. 

There is a lot going on in each episode and it doesn't quite mesh (so far). Barry is trying to straddle two worlds, there are the crazy bad guys and routine executions all over the place, and we have a class of struggling actors.

Did Fuchs appropriate one of the little gymnasts as part of his cover? "That was great honey, really good." To a kid who is a complete stranger.

I love the boss detective. She brings great energy and comedy into each of her scenes.

[zobot81]

My heart breaks when Barry gets yelled at during his Glenngarry Glenn Ross monologue.

His is better than Baldwin's.  Ya.  You're damn right.  I said it.

 

BETTER. THAN. BALDWIN.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 9:31 PM, JoeyCrown said:

Maybe I'm missing something but Barry doesn't seem like a Marine or an Assassin. He seems like a guy who works at Costco.

 You're absolutely right.  And I feel like that's totally the point?  I mean, IDK, what do you think?

Edited April 26, 2018 by zobot81
not was, is better.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, zobot81 said:

 

On April 18, 2018 at 9:31 PM, JoeyCrown said:

Maybe I'm missing something but Barry doesn't seem like a Marine or an Assassin. He seems like a guy who works at Costco.

 You're absolutely right.  And I feel like that's totally the point?  I mean, IDK, what do you think?

Edited 1 hour ago by zobot81. Reason: not was, is better.

I agree. It also makes him a successful assassin. They never see it coming.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Henry Winkler & Sarah Goldberg discuss Barry:

[formerlyfreedom]

After a deadly shootout at the airstrip, Barry must make a difficult decision to evade capture. Pazar blames Fuches for convincing him to declare war on Cristobal Sifuentes, a ruthless yet civilized Bolivian drug lord. Sally fears her performance in the class production of “Macbeth” will be compromised, ruining her chance to impress another top Hollywood agent.

 

[sjankis630]

Well..... that was some shit there.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

Well..... that was some shit there.

Heh. Yeah. I am really happy that my initial thoughts that this could be my new Breaking Bad have not been disappointed.

The Barry-Sally I-love-you acting exercise was in many ways also played out with Gene and the detective lady as well as with Barry and and Fuches, Barry and Taylor, Pazar and Vacha, Gene and Sally, etc., with all of them embodying the episode title, "Listen With Your Ears; React With Your Face." 

[sjankis630]

I had to give it up to female detective. She did not have to approach crazy Chechnian dude reloading AK and get the drop on him. No one would have thought any worse of her if she had stayed behind that wall and called in backup.

Also i had to laugh at the way that dude ran. it was pretty funny.

[Sader87]

Gene: "I'm 47...." lol

[ElectricBoogaloo]

24 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

Gene: "I'm 47...." lol

I found that even funnier than Taylor saying, “This would be a great place for a hot tub!”

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

I had to give it up to female detective. She did not have to approach crazy Chechnian dude reloading AK and get the drop on him. No one would have thought any worse of her if she had stayed behind that wall and called in backup.

Also, then he would've survived to perform musicals in prison—which was clearly what he'd rather be doing, and which made me laugh the most. Or is he still alive? Maybe that is the series end game: Vacha and Barry starting a theater therapy group in prison together for death row inmates.
I really wanted the lady detective to see him singing on stage and accept him as one of the actors—but, *sigh* being socially awkward (like Barry!) and apparently not very quick in English, he would've not escaped her keen eye as being the one of theses things that is not like the other. 

 

My my biggest LOL moment was when Barry's fantasy teenagers activated their belt buckles and proofed out of the room. Is the belt buckle a device from an actual 20th century scifi show? Star Trek didn't have those, did it?

 

5 hours ago, Sader87 said:

Gene: "I'm 47...." lol

I thought this was simultaneously a sad moment when Detective Moss realized that Gene is delusional, and she was being delusional too regarding their "relationship."

[Blakeston]

So how did Sally wind up with Natalie's role? I know that we were given an explanation, but it was whispered so quietly that I couldn't make it out.

[teddysmom]

9 hours ago, Sader87 said:

Gene: "I'm 47...." lol

I must have yelled "47"!!??! three times.  

Did not see that coming. (the ending).  

Each episode is better than the previous.  I almost wish they were an hour long, that 30 minutes goes by way too  fast. 

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I found that even funnier than Taylor saying, “This would be a great place for a hot tub!”

Out in the middle of the desert? Then he buys one!! And tells Barry he owes him $1700. 

Poor Barry. 

Oh and "I can kill Fuches?" 

Debra Messing says you should only play parts that scare you. 

I'm pretty sure DM NEVER said that.  Grace Adler. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by teddysmom

[teddysmom]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Detective Moss realized that Gene is delusional, and she was being delusional too regarding their "relationship."

I guess her partner isn't as dumb as we thought. 

"So why did you come back here if you don't think the class is involved". 

[atlantaloves]

WOW what an episode, I love love love this show, it has so many great one liners....I'm with your guy when Gene says I'm 47 years old, I died.  That sounded like a John Barrymore line from Dinner at Eight. These writers are brilliant. God guys, who got shot at the end, we know it can't be Barry. Whoa! 

[MarMar]

Best episode so far. I am glad I did not give up on this show. That was intense, so good. Love seeing Henry Winkler act in role he can really sink his teeth into. Glad he has this opportunity with the great writing. I bet he is enjoying the crap out of it. 

[atlantaloves]

Winkler is just killing it in this role.  He's a scene stealer. 

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Winkler is just killing it in this role.  He's a scene stealer. 

But in a good way. A generous scene stealer.

[scrb]

"Shakespeare's women are not juicy enough for you?"

Barry is off his game because of the acting or Sally?

He's leaving a bloody trail which leads right to him, because that one acting class discussion about killing, which caused him not to kill Taylor, who is now being reckless and probably got himself killed.

But even before that, he relents and agrees to take out the stash house to placate Fuches, who pressured him to quit the acting class.

[tennisgurl]

And just like that, shit gets real. Even more real. 

Barry and Sally doing their I Love You exercise was great, as was every scene with Henry Winkler. He is clearly having a ball in every scene, its just great to see him sinking his teeth into such a meaty role. 

The Chechens are so weirdly hilarious, especially the running joke about how they all think Vacha is super creepy. And Gornas commitment to his bit about short Bolivians. "This was great physical comedy of you!" "Its costs, its costs..." 

I also laughed super hard at Sally happily texting in her car was blasting Fight Song as Vacha frantically run by as the cop chases him. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

And Gornas commitment to his bit about short Bolivians. "This was great physical comedy of you!" "Its costs, its costs..." 

Right. I had forgotten about this line—which, when combined with Vacha singing into an imaginary mic when he found himself onstage while hunting Sally, makes two theater references in the episode by the Chechan thugs. This must be building towards them eventually performing, right? Maybe Barry becomes their producer or director.
From the first episode, this show has reminded me of Breaking Bad, which, IMO, was far above most other shows because of the way the story consistently fit together over time and seasons, building to an ultimate end that satisfyingly completed the whole. I don't know if the writers here will do the same, but it has potential.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also laughed super hard at Sally happily texting in her car was blasting Fight Song as Vacha frantically run by as the cop chases him. 

This totally cracked me up too!

Poor Barry - Gene couldn't have given him a less loaded phrase for that Meisner repetition exercise?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Inside the episode: (youtu.be/PUV-75x0k0o)

Having a limited knowledge of Shakespeare, I totally missed Fuches as a type of Lady Macbeth. 
So thanks for posting this, @ElectricBoogaloo.
And interesting that Hader places the blame entirely on his character for the fine mess he's gotten them into.

[Ottis]

Barry may have just had all his wishes granted. If he can jump out of the SUV and convince the Bolivians that he was a hostage, you know, hop out and pump a few bullets into the sadly dead Taylor and friend, then he can set up Fuches as the shot caller and have the Bolivians take out Fuches. Then Barry sits between the Bolivians and Chechnens, each thinking he is on their side.

Gene actually seems like a decent acting teacher, based on what very little I know of acting.

Didn't care for Sally flatly stating that no one else in the class can touch her level of acting. She seemed more grounded before. Was that a sign of runaway ego? If so, Barry may be better off without her.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Barry trying to play nice with Trevor ended up royally fucking everything up!  Obviously, I'm sure he'll managed to get out of that shootout alive, but I imagine this is going to cause major issues more him, Fuches, and the Chechens.

Henry Winkler was fantastic in this episode.

So, Sally now wants to actually play Macbeth in a monologue.  Not quite sure what is going on here, but I'm guessing it will somehow factor into the endgame since there are only two episodes left.

I really love Gornas and especially NoHo more then I probably should.  Yeah, they might be murdering Chechen gangsters, but they're so damn funny too!

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/1/2018 at 8:19 AM, Ottis said:

Gene actually seems like a decent acting teacher...

I know! I can't decide if this is the show being confused about whether he's a hack, or if the show is being nuanced enough to let us see that his character is more complex than it seemed, but I will choose to believe the latter.

[Portia]

Detective Moss: "Look at you. You are so little. I could rock you like a baby."

Okay, my husband is 6'1", but I am definitely going to use that for sexy talk.

[scrb]

Stephen Root and the guy who plays Noho Hank went on the Adam Carolla Show podcast, May 4th episode.

Root said it's the first TV show he signed on since Newsradio and he liked the writing a lot.

The host hasn't seen the show so it wasn't the best interview.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, scrb said:

The host hasn't seen the show so it wasn't the best interview.

One thing I appreciate about the Build interviews (like the one above) is that the hosts/interviewers always watch the shows/plays beforehand so they are familiar with the stories and the characters. It really makes a difference in the discussions and the questions they ask.

[atlantaloves]

Me too, I love Gene, he can order me some chicken ala king any day of the week! 

[formerlyfreedom]

Season Finale!

Quote

Barry vows to give up his life of crime, once and for all. Pazar enlists Vacha's replacement to take care of Fuches. Moss and her team close in on a major arrest with hopes of finally cracking the Madison case.

 

[shapeshifter]

Wow.
I can't remember the last time I watched a show that, when it was over, I said, "Wow."

Is it wrong that I laughed after Sally told Barry that, whatever he had to do to get to that place (kill his old army buddy) he just had to keep doing that every time?

[formerlyfreedom]

Not gonna lie. I felt awful for Barry after he killed his friend. I'm a monster.

[hendersonrocks]

I admire how dark this is going. It's not necessarily enjoyable to watch, but I still admire it nonetheless.

SALLY SUCKS. (And I don't know that I want to know what it says about me that the annoying but largely harmless acting class character gets under my skin more than the murderous but conflicted Barry.)

[formerlyfreedom]

1 minute ago, hendersonrocks said:

I admire how dark this is going. It's not necessarily enjoyable to watch, but I still admire it nonetheless.

Excellent point. I can't NOT watch this show - I'm the ultimate rubbernecker at this point. I'm still in shock an hour later, that they 'went' there, TBH.

And I can't believe we only have one episode left in the season.

[sjankis630]

He told him to get out of the  car .........

[steelyis]

1 minute ago, sjankis630 said:

He told him to get out of the  car .........

 

He did.

I didn't think Chris deserved to die for ignoring Barry's warning, he couldn't possibly know what was really going down (what he thought the loaded assault rifles were for, I don't know). But when Barry said he worked for people who would murder Chris's wife and child and Chris still couldn't get his shit together, a lot sympathy I had for him evaporated.

 

20 minutes ago, hendersonrocks said:

SALLY SUCKS. (And I don't know that I want to know what it says about me that the annoying but largely harmless acting class character gets under my skin more than the murderous but conflicted Barry.)

 

I think Sally is a good actor and I admire her drive, but I never liked her.

[MrWhyt]

Cristobal was delightful, shame there has to be a war.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved all of his discussion about The Four Agreements and how he offered to buy it for him if he put it on his Amazon wishlist even after he said he would have to go to war with him. I remember when that book was all the rage and everyone was constantly talking about the four agreements in everyday conversation!