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I think the house is a minor detail.

Most TV characters live in much better digs than they're suppose to be able to afford.

Monica's apartment in Friends is worth tens of millions, not some apartment that a struggling chef can afford.

They need places with big rooms, to have enough room for crew and to light it up brightly.  They could have constructed some modest cabin on stage, which would be claustrophobic for 4 adults.

But they wanted the nice, peaceful locale as a setting, before Barry commits another morally-expensive killing.

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1 hour ago, scrb said:

Most TV characters live in much better digs than they're suppose to be able to afford.

Monica's apartment in Friends is worth tens of millions, not some apartment that a struggling chef can afford.

But at least they explained that on the show - her great aunt or some other older relative had a rent controlled apartment and let her live there.

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How do we know it's a million dollar home?

It could be way up in the Sierra, away from cities, so those homes aren't necessarily that valuable, no matter how beautiful the locale.

It might be far away from LA, so in that case, it would be inconvenient to get up there.

In LA itself, a million dollar maybe buys you a 1000 square foot condo but a million dollar would buy you a palace in neighboring Arizona or Nevada.

Or in a more remote mountain cabin, it might take only a couple of hundred thousand if that.

 

If you watch House Hunters, there's been episodes based on places like Lake Tahoe or in small New England towns and the places they showed weren't that expensive.

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6 hours ago, scrb said:

How do we know it's a million dollar home?

It could be way up in the Sierra, away from cities, so those homes aren't necessarily that valuable, no matter how beautiful the locale.

It might be far away from LA, so in that case, it would be inconvenient to get up there.

In LA itself, a million dollar maybe buys you a 1000 square foot condo but a million dollar would buy you a palace in neighboring Arizona or Nevada.

Or in a more remote mountain cabin, it might take only a couple of hundred thousand if that.

True. And that fits with no neighbors to hear a gunshot. Definitely Occam's razor.

And this can still be true too:

4 hours ago, Portia said:

Some well-off people are cheap because it helps them remain well-off.

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On 5/14/2018 at 1:23 PM, hendersonrocks said:

My take: Barry clearly picked up on her interest in his stage name over dinner and was tracking her from then on to see how she was going to follow up on it. He went to bed but basically stayed attuned to her doings so when she left the house he followed her to the dock, and hung his gun on the tree in case he needed it before confronting her. (It surprises me zero that he would have had one hidden in the car.)

I agree with you that that what happened. I just find it hard to believe that an experienced police officer, knowing what she knew, while seeing Barry reached for the weapon, did not immediately pull the trigger and sent 5 to 6 rounds center-mass.

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7 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

I agree with you that that what happened. I just find it hard to believe that an experienced police officer, knowing what she knew, while seeing Barry reached for the weapon, did not immediately pull the trigger and sent 5 to 6 rounds center-mass.

I don't think he had to visibly reach for the gun. Recall his hands were in the air at her command—or so she thought; IIRC, Barry took control of where his hands should be expected to be by reassuring her that he had them up, which also served to have his hand in a reaching position for when he walked backwards, past the tree, until the gun was in front of his hand.

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On 2018/05/23 at 5:09 AM, TVbitch said:

I almost wish shows like this would only be one season, because I feel kind of complete with it, and it will most likely only get preposterous next season as Barry continues to elude the law

 

Same. I feel like this is a premise for an  excellent mini-series, not a multi-season show. Trying to drag it out while keeping all the actors employed - I expect Janice to somehow survive, for example - is how these things almost always, imho, go to ruin.

 

I'd be more interested in a NoHo Hank spin-off in any case. What a wonderful, special character he is!

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I know I am late to the party but here are my two cents. I don’t think it was a dream only because I don’t recall Barry knowing that Janice and Cousineau were even a couple, so he wouldn’t be dreaming about spending a weekend with them. I think the time jump is a few years and likely Cousineau is making big bucks by being Barry’s agent or producing those plays Barry is in. It seems Barry and Sally are successful actors. Barry obviously can’t do tv or movies because the exposure would be too dangerous. 

I very much want my own NoHo Hank, without the criminal activities, as a friend. 

I totally thought Barry was going to go after Sally’s ex-husband for beating her up. I don’t like Sally, and I feel awful saying it, but Barry can do better. Maybe a hitwoman who wants to be an actress. I don’t find anything likeable about Sally but the actress playing her does a phenomenal job. 

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎23 at 9:13 AM, Blakeston said:

Our introduction to her was when she flipped out at Barry just for walking by when she was reading lines - and then she blamed him for her being a hot mess. She's repeatedly been nasty to Natalie. And she clearly feels entitled to be a celebrity, despite having little talent.

It's intentionally ironic. Barry, despite his occupation and aptitude for the job, is , deep down, actually a decent human being with a relatively true moral compass, and he; trying to stick by it and even become a better person. Sally, by contrast, is a horrible, vindictive, shallow, selfishly entitled person, as is the rest of the cast to varying degrees.

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As someone who has never used Facebook, I still question whether Janice's computer searches for "Barry Block" and her accessing his Facebook account (which can only be done through your own Facebook account?) would create some sort of data record outside her laptop that would incriminate Barry sufficiently to undo his presumed disposal of her body and her laptop. He's good with a gun, but clearing up computer data doesn't seem to be in his wheelhouse. 

Edited by ahpny
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Just finished the season.  LOVED it!  John Hader is brilliant, Steven Root is appropriately slimy, Fonzie is adorable, and I’m now in love with a short, bald, Chechen.  Was John Hadar giving a nod to Dexter with his clothing?  What a quirky show.  Can’t wait for the next season.

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Babka is a kind of cake, baklava is a puff pastry with raisins and honey. Not regional difference, two completely different desserts. Jews eat babkas- Eastern European. Baklava on the other hand is almost exclusively Greek so most likely only Greek Jews make it. 

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I ADORE Henry Winkler. I love him and Janice together. I had to google his age because I’m older than 47 but look better than THAT lol and winkler is in his 70a. Oh my god he had fun with that. 

 

I coms from the world of theater and show kills it. I do think they exaggerate how bad the kids are though- 

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Sally isn’t horrible. She’s limited and she’s typical of a struggling actress unfortunately. I’ve known many and jealousy and a certain aggressiveness comes with the territory. One is a close friend and though she now also teaches and has written a play (she’ll even say “I’m a playwright” lol) the sure way to get her to come see something with me (I’m a critic) is to tell her some rival is in it.

 

i liked sally when we first met her and I think the show is clear that she does have talent but isn’t in control of it.

 

i felt for her when she went to an audition and saw her former rival/frenwmy there. It’s hard for us nonactors to appreciate just how much that hurts, most of us would feel a twang and move on quickly. But actors are in a world where parts are limited and opportunities scarce.

 

even Sally’s hysterical monologue to Barry on the phone about how her friend has been lying about her age etc was SPOT ON.

but the show also demonstrates that NOT every aspiring actress is so ruthless.

 

and in her defense too I think sally would hear what the class said and take it to heart. That’s also been my experience of actors. When you do call them out even if defensive at first they’ll usually go away and think about it.

i think she’s written lovingly. She’s trying but she’s really not a terrible person. 

 

ETA: I also once dated an actor. I totally fell for the pity party thing, gave him sympathy, only to hear by phone the next day (he was touring) that he was at a party. We dated until he dumped me by email but in my heart it was over then... so Sally's I NEED YOU I'M SO SAD followed by I HAVE AN AUDITION PLEASE LEAVE was spectacularly accurate!

Edited by lucindabelle
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Actors DO get emotional at finding a frenemy has gotten something they wanted. And it never leaves them. To this day my actor friends, now all in late 40s early 50s, harbor resentments over "overrated" peers.

 

And as others have said, the gesture wasn't real. It was aimed to hurt, to show off. It hit its mark.

On 4/22/2018 at 1:19 PM, TV Anonymous said:

I know that that is the joke, but why does Sally get emotional when her old partner making out in the world? Normal people would leverage that situation for her own benefits. She has a leg up on the new show which is a good stepping stone for an struggling actress. All she needs to do is just passing the audition.

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I have a long background in theatre.

Including teaching acting.

For me there's zero question that Sally was much, much better when she yelled at the pharmacist post Coucineau intervention.

It's a style of directing, not mine, but it'sdefinitely been done and has worked.

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20 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I have a long background in theatre.

Including teaching acting.

For me there's zero question that Sally was much, much better when she yelled at the pharmacist post Coucineau intervention.

Huh. Maybe I'll rewatch this episode while chilling with a near-comatose relative over Christmas.

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On 4/17/2018 at 10:52 AM, jennylauren123 said:

I keep looking at Henry Winkler, thinking, this is the guy I had a crush on when I was 11?!

And it’s he future of all our faces! His jawline is soft because his face fell. Gravity sucks. I give him a lot of credit (NOT that I’d blame him especially in his field if he’d had a face lift but he clearly hasn’t) for staying in the biz. I knew he was a good actor post fonziw but it’s good to be reminded. He went to Yale drama school I think so this territory of acting classes he would know very very well.

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I must admit to mostly feeling confused after seeing this episode as well as some of the others.

I watched all 8 episodes and I did enjoy many aspects. But mostly I was confused and feel the need to watch it again (and possibly again).

I thought the cast was very good and I really liked Hader.  But I had several problems.

The biggest problem for me was that this episode was only 30 minutes and I felt it needed a lot more time to establish the background story as well as the the backgrounds of all of the characters.

30 minutes did not seem like nearly enough and 8 episodes for the seasons was also far to few. I just hope that later seasons will have more episodes.

Can anyone explain to me what was going on when Hader seemed to click some remote control device and his children appeared and then disappeared.

Was he dreaming? Does he really have any children? Like I said, "I am confused".

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8 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Can anyone explain to me what was going on when Hader seemed to click some remote control device and his children appeared and then disappeared.

Was he dreaming? Does he really have any children? Like I said, "I am confused".

My memory is hazy at this point except that I know this was one of those shows I really really loved.

Spoiler

But I do recall Barry fantacizing about a perfect family (with 2.2 kids) with Sally—so, no, no real kids were in his life. I think Barry's fantasies with Sally are a coping mechanism to deal with his PTSD from killing people when he was in the military and then as an assassin.

(spoiler tagging stuff that I can't recall in which episode it appeared)

Edited by shapeshifter

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Just recently binged Barry and I am so glad I did. I've always loved Bill Hader. He was always solid on SNL but dayum he was just phenomenal here. The scene in the 7th ep when he screamed at the wall and Fonzie scurried out of the room saying, "It can wait til Monday" was pure gold! I must've rewound that 10 times. And bless Henry Winkler, I love that he won an Emmy and I couldn't be happier he did. So awesome to see him again on tv. I don't know what to hope for but I don't think that was a dream of killing Janice which was incredibly shocking, more than anything that I can recall on tv recently. Stephen Root with always be Milton "where's my red stapler" but he was pretty awesome too. Anybody have any idea when the next season will arrive?

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On 4/4/2018 at 11:26 AM, Ottis said:

Thing is, I don't believe that class is much different from reality.

I really, really want a scene where everybody massages each other because that was something I was forced to go through in an acting class I took in high school.

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On 10/17/2018 at 1:19 PM, lucindabelle said:

And as others have said, the gesture wasn't real. It was aimed to hurt, to show off. It hit its mark.

Sally has a very "me, me, me" attitude to her, which is natural as an actress, and I'm guessing they were frenemies and she wasn't the nicest person to be around when they were filming.

The Heathers reboot was set to premiere in February and then it got pulled because of the Parkland shooting. The show did eventually premiere as a binge dump but that scenario was pretty realistic.

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It was funny in a pathetic way when Sally inserted into her reading of the part (during her practice for the audition) that she had a 14-year-old son who she had given birth to when she was 14—which would make the character she was playing 28 rather than, say, 38.

I liked the reality of it- if we're assuming Sally is in her early/mid-30's that's when it really starts to become do or die. Nobody breaks out in their 40's, especially if you're trying to be a leading lady. Sally doesn't look quirky enough to be a character actress. She can be the best friend of the pretty lead or if you glammed her up enough she could actually be the lead, but I can't see her doing a career like Melissa Leo or Linda Hunt.

I did like that Sally did have some initial success (which got thwarted) so it's not like she's spent 15 years there and did absolutely nothing but improv theater.

Edited by methodwriter85
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On 10/19/2018 at 11:53 PM, lucindabelle said:

And it’s he future of all our faces! His jawline is soft because his face fell. Gravity sucks. I give him a lot of credit (NOT that I’d blame him especially in his field if he’d had a face lift but he clearly hasn’t) for staying in the biz. I knew he was a good actor post fonziw but it’s good to be reminded. He went to Yale drama school I think so this territory of acting classes he would know very very well.

He was never really that great looking; what he had was charm, the leather jacket, and the bloom of being young-ish. (Seriously, he would have been in his 30's for most of the time he was playing Fonzi.) He focused on being a character actor after he was done with Days and therefore didn't feel the need to fight to keep looking like a leading man. Some guys get better looking as they age (Liam Neeson comes to mind) but most usually don't. (Poor, poor, poor Matthew Broderick.)

I like how they're showing how self-centered Sally is while at the same time still showing her as human.

Edited by methodwriter85
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Sally's incredibly self-centered, needs to be right all the time, and is very much about taking from people without giving much back. It's been pretty consistent- Barry continually asks her to run lines with him but she brushes it off to deal with whatever drama or power play she's going through at the moment. I don't think she's a completely awful person, but she's not the perfect girlfriend/wife image that Barry is projecting on her. Which is actually kind of awesome- the moment of Sally dancing in the pilot made Barry see her as his Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and she's really not. She's a very nuanced character. I think her coldness to Barry in this episode is because of her anger and embarrassment about getting sexually harassed in the previous episode, which Barry exacerbated by buying her an expensive laptop she didn't ask for like she's a charity case that he gets to screw, and marking his territory with her. Sally can't take her anger out on the agent, who already put her on his blacklist, so Barry's the convenient one to take this out on, especially because he never fights back.

I do think the Lady MacBeth character has some kind of crush on Barry (I thought she seemed REALLY happy to see him at the party in the previous episode), and she seemed to be striking back at Sally when she started bashing Barry. I like how the power dynamic seems to be shifting, which is VERY true of actors at playhouses/companies, whatever you want to call it.

Taylor(?) the messed up soldier took so much joy out of blasting people away, and I thought that was a pretty great contrast with Barry. I wonder if Barry didn't do it partially because he figures that this guy will get himself killed eventually.

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On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:57 PM, Portia said:

Just learned that he has alopecia. That explains the lack of eyebrows. I think he's a standout talent.

I'm guessing he got tired of the scalp shots that they use to treat alopecia and just let go of his hair. From what I read, it was manageable but eventually progressed to the point where he started needing fake eyebrows and the like. He did look good but it's a good move because it makes him stand out. Before he looked like any other good-looking guy with brown hair and brown eyes. (Kind of reminded me of Jeremy Sisto.) As an aside, there's a model I follow named Justin Hopwood who lost his hair to a milder form of alopecia, although with a shit ton of shots he managed to get his hair to grow back. Still, that seems to be a lot to go through.

Anyway, I know Sarah Goldberg from her turn as Lolly on Hindsight, where she plays the wacky best friend of the lead character who relives her 20's when she travels back to 1995. It's great seeing her on a show getting attention this time around.

Edited by methodwriter85
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The callbacks in this are great. The "The Queen is dead" scene was a great callback to the "I love you scene", with Sally taking Barry's emotions and running with them. It's funny- you just do that. You're supposed to feed off the emotions of your scene partners. I was in a community theater production of 12 Angry Men, and I had a thing where I started crying as Juror Number 12 when the glasses thing comes into play, and Juror Number 3 told me she really got helped by me doing that when she had to start the emotional monologue. (Although when we got to the actual performances I stopped because I realized it didn't make sense for my character to cry and decided that Number 12 was pissed off at 3 instead.)

Chris Marquette was great in Joan of Arcadia 15 years ago and it's great to see him get to have a wonderful scene like that to play.

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I felt a strong sense of dread when the happy ending scene started that I started fastforwarding it and then stopped when we got to the dock. Man, they knocked it out of the park.  Janice was such a well-drawn character and her refusal to back down may her led to her demise, but I would have called "bullshit" if she had decided to go, "You know what? We good."

So note that the show set up that Sally has an abusive psycho ex. Her reaction to the laptop in the earlier episode makes sense now- on top of being invasive, a common abuser tactic is to initially shower the victim with gifts.

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18 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I also thought she was right to be freaked out that Barry bought her a 3k dollar laptop like he was her sugar daddy. Sally had already basically been treated like she was expected to whore herself out for a job, and now Barry was basically given her a laptop after sex like he was paying her for a job well-done.

This makes total sense to me after reading comments like this explaining it.
But with a 10-year-old laptop that I need to replace for the self-employed work I'm doing as my employer is downsizing me,
I initially thought: Sally. Get a grip. Take the frickin' laptop.

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I'm up to episode 5. I'm enjoying it so far. I find it pretty well-written (though of course I've been watching trash like Good Girls so that's relative). Bill Hader is great. I think there's a decent balance between drama and silliness from the acting class and the Chechens. I'm finding Sally and Fuches very frustrating right now but I think they both make sense. I hate watching it but I get why Barry is letting Fuches boss him around. Even though he's a schmuck who isn't capable of much without Barry, Barry does care about him and Fuches also knows how to hit him where he's vulnerable. His cutting comments go right to his insecurities and reduce his humanity so quickly and easily. It's dark. As for Sally, we knew from the beginning that she was a particular kind of self-involved actor type. It's not even that everyone in the group is like this. Barry just happened to gravitate towards the most confident, controlling personality... and those tend to be the nicest of people. His fantasy is Donna Reed but that's not at all who Sally is. I do hope he moves onto another love interest sooner rather than later as they are 100% wrong for each other. 

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Dying at the nice guy reading of the “coffee is for closers” speech from Glengarry Glen Ross :D

I didn't realize someone could misread a scene that badly. It was a brilliant idea. 

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I don't know why Sally does a lot of what she does.  I don't need her to be likable as a lot of the other characters aren't "likable" sorts but dammit, why is it so hard for her to be understandable?  

It's funny because I feel like I can get through around my dislike of her because I do find her so understandable. She's incredibly self-important but crippled with insecurity, or at least, frustrated ambition. It's been consistent in every episode. She got mad at Barry for throwing her off when she was rehearsing her scene. She first attracts Barry by being a force of personality. It's easy to mistake it for charisma or interest in him but even in that bar, you could see her stomping on Natalie. She's so obsessed with competing with others that she can't take advantage of that audition and falls apart. She asked Barry for favors and uses him to soothe her ego and reassure her of her talent and also her desirability but when her needs are met, she no longer has use for him. And yet her behavior makes sense from her perspective. I don't think the laptop was him trying to buy her but otherwise, it makes sense for her to be turned off by his jealousy and combativeness. The way she wielded the phrase "toxic masculinity" and tried to argue that they shouldn't be empathetic towards Barry's feelings about his military service... she's the kind of manipulative character that doesn't argue in good faith. She just tries to rationalize and reason her way towards explaining what she already thinks and how she wants to behave. She wants to rationalize behavior that preserves her comfort and ego. I think the issue with Sally is that these characters are rarely love interests or main characters. They're like... Jacqueline on Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt or Jenna on 30 Rock.

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Episode 7: Oof. I know we were supposed to believe that Barry's emotions prompted Sally to really sell Macbeth's speech towards the end but I think he totally showed her up. I'm not familiar with the real actress so I don't know if she's capable of real depth or melodrama but I just find her performances... okay. Whether she's Sally or Sally playing a character, she's never doing anything that remarkable. 

Somehow I didn't see it coming but I totally should have. They couldn't have sold Chris harder as the sacrificial lamb. I did think it was odd that they went through the trouble of filming a scene where Barry tagged along on a family outing. I know he was already a hitman but this feels like the real Moral Event Horizon. The show was careful to only show him killing "bad guys" before this. He even balked at killing Taylor. But killing Chris is basically like killing a puppy. I think the show will continue to try to redeem Barry instead of sinking into darkness because I don't know how else they can continue to make it a comedy but yeah, that was a rough choice.

I also loved Cristobal. 

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I really needed to see Barry grab the suitcase and the money and then punch Fuches in the face. If that's not catharsis... I know Fuches will be back but at least for now I can enjoy Barry taking a stand.

Amazing. It's so soapy to have a twin brother replace a dead character but I'll allow it. It makes no sense but in this show, somehow the Chechen mafia are the comic relief and often a complete delight. The actors just seem like they're having so much fun. The actor playing Hank is just brilliant. I'm glad he was spared but I will also miss Goran and his Boris/Natasha accent.

I was very confused by the jump to the house in the woods. I thought Barry was having another dream sequence. Out of everything, I'm most surprised that Sally and Barry were able to sustain a relationship for as long as the time jump posits. Her playing loving girlfriend was the thing that held me back from thinking it was real for the longest time.

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I think, to me, this is a show about a man who has convinced himself that he wants to change, and that he's a "good person." But Barry has done little work to change his killer's nature—and can't contain his most basic instinct, to kill— and most awful people think they're really just misunderstood "good" people. I like this show but think Barry is an un-redeemable creepy psycho.

At this point, I'm still buying the premise the show has laid out. I can certainly see that reading but taking it all at face value, Barry is supposed to be a depressed character with PTSD. We met him when he was emotionally deadened but this is not who he is... which is evidenced by the times that emotion does break through. What you said about work though is part of the reason I think it's cheap to do a time jump. He was pretty raw when he was ready to say goodbye to LA. If the time jump sticks, we skipped all the emotional work of him getting to a place where he could participate in some kind of charity thing with Chris' family and to tap into his emotions enough to be a decent actor. The fantasy sequences are pointed. Sure, there's a Leave It to Beaver quality that you could see as reductive and problematic but again, at face value, they're wholesome. He wants intimacy and family. He's not callous. He has a moral code. We just see him violate it time and again.

I will say, to contradict my own point, there is something I noticed about the fantasy sequences. The get grander throughout the season. He doesn't just imagine living with Sally in a cozy apartment. First there's a house with 5 guest rooms. Then the fantasy where he's an older man with grown children features a wall of awards (Oscars, Emmys, and Tonys). 

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How is it that in a show filled with murderers, criminals, and narcissists that I still hate Fuches the most? Because he is a combination of all three?

Personally, I hate characters who are lazy or incompetent. If you add self-righteous on top of it, my hatred knows no bounds. But yeah, there might be a lot of murderers and criminals running around but at least they're earning their keep. Fuches is reaping the rewards of crime without doing the work. And our particular criminals are not particularly cruel like the way Fuches cuts Barry down to size when he's being disobedient. Even when Goran was his maddest at NoHo Hank and Ruslan, he didn't destroy their self-esteem the way Fuches seemed like he regularly did to keep Barry in line. I like watching TV shows about people who are good at things. Fuches isn't contributing anything. Taylor was right. He's been ripping Barry off. 

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I don’t like Sally, and I feel awful saying it, but Barry can do better. Maybe a hitwoman who wants to be an actress. I don’t find anything likeable about Sally but the actress playing her does a phenomenal job.

They probably won't get rid of Sally or Fuches anytime soon but the healthiest thing for Barry would be for him to realize he can do better than both of them. They're both users. 

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I liked the reality of it- if we're assuming Sally is in her early/mid-30's that's when it really starts to become do or die. Nobody breaks out in their 40's, especially if you're trying to be a leading lady. Sally doesn't look quirky enough to be a character actress. She can be the best friend of the pretty lead or if you glammed her up enough she could actually be the lead, but I can't see her doing a career like Melissa Leo or Linda Hunt.

I was trying to think of who Sally is. A less pretty Christine Taylor or Malin Akerman? Jaime King? It just feels like whatever success she gets, she'll be lucky to have gotten it. At her talent level, she would be lucky to make a steady career out of minor roles on network TV. She doesn't have star quality. If Sally had gotten to LA sooner, I could see her as the daughter on a family sitcom who could never manage to transition to a wholly successful career as an adult. 

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