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S04.E07: Week 4, Night 1

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I still think Kristina was so attached to Dean, despite all warning signs and waffling, because he went with her to visit her family during the break. After her traumatic childhood that probably meant a whole lot to her emotionally.

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So much of this season happened during the forced hiatus. No wonder we are stuck with the moron twins. I mean, what is the point of bringing in someone no one wants at the end. They need to save the hot prospects for the end. Have everyone all settled and content then whip out your D-Lo's or Kristina's or Raven's. (I still don't get how Raven was a top choice for the guys. She's just so common). They stacked all the heavy hitters in the front end so one coming in did much shaking up.

I love Jack Stone even more now for waiting until the last minute to break the date with Thing One, or was it Thing Two? Who knows, who cares. He dodged a giant cannon ball with that one. I have no feeling but disgust and self loathing about the rest of this episode.

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2 hours ago, ramble said:

My teenager walked through the room as I was watching this show & stopped to watch for a few minutes with me. Her first comment, "I thought the show had pretty people on it. Where are they?"  She thought Kristina she was the only pretty one there &  she was highly disappointed in the men thinking Jack Stone  was the only passable one. After watching the drama with Dean for a moment she commented that the girl (Kristina) should be thankful she didn't end up with Dean because he looked like a toad & they would end up with toad-like children.

She stayed a couple more minutes & heard Taylor speak & said, "Every statement that girl makes ends in a question mark. Is  something wrong with her?  How do you watch this junk?"  Smart kid with a trash reality tv addicted mama. 

Yeah, my 18-year-old son apparently overheard from the kitchen and later came in mimicking the way Wells did the voice, "So, like, she ate scallops with her hands in the car, and then she wiped scallop juice on my shirt, and now she's SCALLOP FINGERS!" He then launched into a lecture that I used to be smarter and he can't believe I waste my time sitting around watching these idiotic shows and rotting my brain. I couldn't really argue with that. I mean, typically, I could claim a fun escape from reality, but this season wasn't even fun.

The ad nauseum Scallop Fingers stuff was never even funny the first time let alone strong enough material to carry an entire season-long "joke." It got to the point where any time someone gave Christen scallops as a "joke" or even better when the twins threw them at no one, I would get some smug satisfaction that it was costing production about $20/lb. Hell, call me Lobster Claws or Kobe Beef Hands, assholes. The only thing better would be like $100/oz printer ink. If I'm going to Paradise, I'll clean out some hardcore paper jams, ink myself up, and wait for the HP cartridges to rain down on me and be delivered on silver platters.

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4 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

He then launched into a lecture that I used to be smarter and he can't believe I waste my time sitting around watching these idiotic shows and rotting my brain. I couldn't really argue with that.

You know it's bad when your 18 year old is lecturing you about your TV choices...and he's kinda right.

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1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

I would get some smug satisfaction that it was costing production about $20/lb. Hell, call me Lobster Claws or Kobe Beef Hands, assholes.

Hah! Get some filet mignon raining down like manna from heaven!

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On 9/5/2017 at 6:05 AM, TomGirl said:

IMO, he is exactly the same now as he was on Rachel's season, Mr. "What's your favorite dinosaur?"  I couldn't stand him then and I can't stand him now.

Is it wrong that I would love to get that question and then we could have a long conversation about paleontology? But then, I'm the woman who, when she sets up the nativity set every Christmas, finds it totally entertaining to have the wise men bringing gold, frankincense, myrrh...and a stegosaurus!

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OK I've finally watched this.

Wells for "Best decent human being": "Can I ask you a question? Why are you fighting for someone who's not fighting for you? (non-judgmental, caring look). You are amazing. You are one of the coolest, badass chicks in the world, and you don't deserve it. You know?" (mic drop) THAT is what you say to be a supportive friend. 

Raven for "Friend most likely to talk about you". See also: ex-friend who continues to have other friends, making you wonder if you're the only who sees her for who she is. 

Daniel for "Most consistent". "She likes scallops. She probably puts them in her purse. Maybe even her pocket." I laughed out loud at this bit of absurdity in an otherwise awful season. Never change, Daniel. In all seriousness, though, I like that he seems like a great listener. His response might be out there, but he is listening. 

Ben Z for "Ability to emerge from Bachelor seasons unscathed" Also, most likely to score outside of paradise. (I'm still hoping he's The Bachelor, just because I want to see some Ben Z.)

Christen for "Ahead of the game". Think about it. Beach vacation with unlimited seafood and making out with the very eligible, good looking, attorney Jack Stone. She's way ahead of everyone else.

Edited by kazza
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9 hours ago, kazza said:

Christen for "Ahead of the game". Think about it. Beach vacation with unlimited seafood and making out with the very eligible, good looking, attorney Jack Stone. She's way ahead of everyone else.

haha, so much this. I would never go on this shit show to find a husband, but I sure wouldn't mind eating unlimited seafood and drinking free fancy drinks while making out with a bunch of hot guys (so, not so much this season, but she did go with what she had. I do think Jack Stone is the hottest now that Ben Z is gone).

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On September 5, 2017 at 5:42 PM, kingshearte said:

Because on one hand, while I agree with Raven that we need to stop blaming women for "leading men astray" (although, come on, girlfriend, time and place), on the other, it's hard to argue that it's not pretty low to not only knowingly insert yourself into an established relationship, but basically flaunt it.

In this Dean-Kristina-Danielle love triangle, I think Kristina was being silly since Dean was clearly not committed to her. He even told her that he wanted to date other people.  That alone should've told Kristina that they were not in an exclusive relationship,so he was fair game for anyone (including Danielle) to date. 

That being said, if Kristina and Dean were in an exclusive relationship (hypothetically speaking) and Danielle were aware of this relationship status and still tried to pursue Dean, I put the blame on BOTH Dean and Danielle.  Dean is to blame since it is his job to honor his relationship with Kristina since he promised exclusivity (in his hypothetical situation).  Danielle would also be to blame, but for a different reason.  Danielle (or any other woman) is not responsible for Dean's relationship with Kristina, but as an adult, they should try to act like a decent human being and stay away from men who are in committed relationships.  I don't subscribe to the idea that a woman knowingly pursuing a taken man is free of any blame whatsoever.  This infantilizes women and removes any responsibility from their own actions. To sum up, everyone is responsible for their own actions (both men and women)

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First, I love Kristina and have a crush on her.  I don't like Dean and thought his noncomittal mumble double talk was pretty sleazy (not really accepting blame for his part, but deflecting and confusing things). That being said, the dye was cast on this thing once Danielle showed up and Dean showed interest. I still think Kristina was the better choice, but once she became upset about things she should have dumped him and moved on. 

 

Maybe I'm cynical, but if you've only been dating someone for a brief time (even traveling to Kentucky and visiting her family) I don't think there's enough built up to last these struggles. Dean may have liked Kristina more, but the relationship stopped being fun. I think that's what people forget about dating. It's supposed to be fun. Sure, after you've been together awhile you can be supportive and work through stuff. BUT, if you haven't invested much in a relationship, and one person is fun and smiling and keeps things light and breezy, while the other person frowns, and cries, and just wants to talk about feelings and relationships, it's hard not to choose the first person. Even if you like the second. 

 

It's not fair, and it's Dean's fault, but relationships aren't about "fair" or "right". It's taken me awhile to figure it out, but people should really do their best to be interesting and fun for awhile, before getting into deep relationship questions. 

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I agree. I think Dean was seeing this as what it is, a vacation romance. He's there to have fun, hook up, hang with "cool" people on the beach. He's not there to be nagged about his feelings and about hanging with other hot chicks. I think he really did like Kristina up until she became work. Once the relationship became more work than fun he was out.

Kristina was there, like most of these women, sadly, to snag herself a husband. She went "all in" too soon. She zeroed in on one guy hoping to make a Jade/Tanner type pairing. Things were fine at first, but that's not what Dean was looking for. They were just seeking very different things and it exploded.

They are all to blame. Dean for giving Kristina just enough encouragement to keep her hooked and then totally blowing her over for Danielle, but then seeing she's about to give up and pulling her back in. Kristina is to blame for being purposely blind to what was happening. I mean, if a guy is making out with another woman in the pool he's maybe not really as into you as you are him and it's probably better to get out before you get more invested and more hurt. Actually, Danielle is the least to blame since she was told by Dean that he was available. I can't remember if Kristina sat down with Danielle and explained her feelings. I'm not going to go back and check, I like myself too much do do that to myself. If Kristina did tell Danielle and Dean told Danielle something different, then, well, if I were her I would have stayed away. Dean's not worth it. But if either side says they are not in a committed relationship, despite what the other things, they are NOT in a committed relationship. Dean even told Kristina this.

I adore Kristina but she really made this situation herself. I get it, love is blind, but I will say Dean didn't appear to be lying to her or trying to hid his relationship with Danielle, so it's mostly on Kristina

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As for whom to blame for falling in/not falling in love, I blame everyone who goes on this show, especially this trainwreck of a season. Think how cool it would have been if, way back at the beginning, when CH asked during his lecture, if anyone wanted to go home ... and everyone raised their hands and left. Now THAt would have been the.most.shocking.episode.evah, as well as the MOST DRAH-matic! But since that didn't happen, I can't blame one or two from thinking they really ARE there to find "love." It just means they've never watched this franchise, even if they have been on one episode.

Live and learn. Translation: Eat all the $20/lb scallops you can, while you can!

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1 minute ago, saber5055 said:

As for whom to blame for falling in/not falling in love, I blame everyone who goes on this show, especially this trainwreck of a season. Think how cool it would have been if, way back at the beginning, when CH asked during his lecture, if anyone wanted to go home ... and everyone raised their hands and left. Now THAt would have been the.most.shocking.episode.evah, as well as the MOST DRAH-matic! But since that didn't happen, I can't blame one or two from thinking they really ARE there to find "love." It just means they've never watched this franchise, even if they have been on one episode.

The show does have a better average that the Bachelor/ette and everyone on the show has a shot.

Season 1 Marcus and Lacey(?) did that Mexican wedding that was never formalized so they didn't needed to get a divorce when they split.

Season 2 Jade and Tanner  married with baby

Season 3 Evan and Carly   married expecting baby

Season 4... Derek and Taylor...

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1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Kristina was there, like most of these women, sadly, to snag herself a husband. She went "all in" too soon. She zeroed in on one guy hoping to make a Jade/Tanner type pairing. Things were fine at first, but that's not what Dean was looking for. They were just seeking very different things and it exploded.

 when the show went on break, and some of the couples continued seeing each other, visiting each others' families,  sleeping together, etc,  it changed the show.  BiP is a few weeks in "Paradise", which is the setting for short term hook-ups, exploring relationships, and getting to know several people.  When Dean and Kristina hooked up during the break, it's like having a couple who is already dating, come on the show.  Kristina developed deeper feelings than if they had just been in paradise.  perhaps if it was a regular season, without the break, Kristina would have been more open to dating others. 

I guess, I think that dating during the break brought it up to a level of a "real"  relationship for Kristina, instead of a BiP relationship.

Edited by backformore
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On 9/4/2017 at 10:39 PM, betha said:

I do believe that Dean feels horrible about it. But there is a certain type of weak man who thinks they ought to be judged by their intentions instead of their actions. 

 

Exactly. His concern for how people feel about him is much deeper than his concern for how he's actually treating them.

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Kristina is hurt.  She's been dumped on TV, she is shocked, and she is reeling.  People are not always going to be 100% logical in those humiliating situations and assign all of the percentages of blame properly to the exact right parties.

I've seen these exact type of triangles before.  Two women are interested in a man, one woman is extremely shocked and hurt and feels disrespected that she's not the man's first choice and acts out (and I GET it).  The other woman knows how to act totally okay with it and is always stress-free around the guy. The guy is going to pick the least stressful situation.

 

I actually thought she was trying to be TOO logical about it. Meaning that she was trying to lawyer her way into being "the one" and it just doesn't work that way. She might be the better choice for him on paper and maybe down the road, but if he wasn't feeling 100% into her right then, she wasn't going to be able to talk him into it, but she kept trying. 

Agreed that Danielle played it smarter for this scenario. I don't see them lasting a week in the real world, but she "won" this silly tug-of-war. 

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Raven didn't need to shout "I'm just telling you the truth, and you just don't want to hear it" over and over again in Kristina's face.  Kristina was making the most sense when she said "I'd love to have this conversation sober."  Raven was just repeating herself and being stupid.  Those words weren't necessary.  What's the big deal about letting Kristina vent some?  But Kristina really didn't have anyone to turn to so she was in a bad situation.

Why does Raven feel the need to be in the middle of everything that goes down? It seems like she's there to pour gasoline on every fire. Also, she seems like a chickenshit bully who suddenly grew beer muscles in that scene with Kristina. Had she been sober, she probably would have backed off when Kristina said something about her talking to the other girls, but since she was wasted, she was suddenly "brave" enough to shout back. 

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When Raven said "Cheers, Scallops" it sounded so scripted and forced that it momentarily took me out of the show. Then Wells piled on with his phony "oh, didn't you know?" douchiness. Did they think we forgot everyone whooping it up last week behind her back? Turds.

Again, it seems like Raven was appointed Chief Shit-Stirrer this season. That sounded so phony. 

I'm so glad Blake was such a late addition with such a hasty departure. I really can't stand that guy. Even without the Whaboom stuff, there's just something so smarmy and off-putting about him. Diggy's eyeroll upon greeting him was one of the best moments of the episode, along with Dean's "she's going to hate her life for the next 10 minutes" remark when Blake cornered Kristina. He comes across as one of those guys that has so little self-awareness that he assumes himself to be a catch even when no women will give him the time of day and who would probably treat the less attractive women like they are beneath him. His lack of appeal doesn't seem to be a case of editing either based on the reactions he got.

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