S03.E01: The Battle Joined

[aemom]

I just keep hoping that they keep Jamie in the caves to a minimum or I may die of boredom.  That went on WAY too long in the books.

[morgan]

9 minutes ago, AEMom said:

I just keep hoping that they keep Jamie in the caves to a minimum or I may die of boredom.  That went on WAY too long in the books.

Funny you say that because I was just thinking about that today and with the limited number of episodes they are working with and the amount that needs to happen I don't think it will be possible to draw it out.  I've actually been wondering if his cave dwelling time will end up feeling like a weekend retreat instead of seven long years!  Lol

Edited September 12, 2017 by morgan

[lianau]

10 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

 One of the more amusing aspects of the later books for me is Claire figuring out how to use her "modern" scientific training to home brew things like penicillin and ether because she knows that shit works better than whatever bit of herb or moss or drilling holes in skulls that people had otherwise come up with. 

Or when she complains how dangerous it is to make ether  herself only to find out that the pharmacy (or whatever that shop was) sells the stuff because it's a good medication for sea sickness.

[Hybiscus]

2 hours ago, ElsieH said:

One more thing that bugs me. I also didn't like the huggy stuff going on with Jamie and Jack at the battle. And there's all this talk of great sunsets. But the battle was supposed to have been only about 15 minutes right? So no sunset, which means they just did it for effect.  It does help that I don't get the impression Diana was in agreement with the whole emotional romance-y vibe of it all, just from looking at her Twitter feed. 

Other than that, I did like it. I'll just be glad that Jack is dead. Although I wonder what the folks who are saying this is some epic connection between them and wondering if Jamie is bi will think of they leave in his offer to lord John. 

Rom Moore & Matt Roberts said after the show (OnDemand) they didn't plan the "romantic" lighting at all.  It just happened to be a beautiful sun when they were filming.  Also, the fight wasn't heavily scripted, so a lot of that came from the actors.  I know Tobias does a lot of improvising with Black Jack, making him (BJR) more icky than he already is.

[Squirrely]

I'm actually happy with the setup, and knowing the 20 year gap will (hopefully) mostly be covered in the early episodes. Once J and C reunite, I want the story to move forward! And I am the most apprehensive about this season, as Voyager is my absolute favorite book, not just in the series but of all time. 

Whew, the executions were even rougher to watch/hear than read about. I was crying like a baby. They really nailed those scenes. I'm really dreading and anticipating Ardsmuir even more now, seeing how they've handled despair and horror so far. Can't wait for Lord John. I don't care at all for his book series but I sure do love him in this one. 

[Haleth]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

I'm disspointed.  I do not want to se five episodes of this depressing marriage.  I was all caught up at the end of last season.  Claire became a doctor, she was a distant parent, and she kept on loving Jaimie, while Frank kept on loving her, and Frank was the better parent..

Did not need to see this rehashed.

They had to find something for Claire to do for a few episodes. I don't know if you're a book reader but a lot happens to Jaime while Claire's journey is pretty pedestrian. Hang in there. 

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, morgan said:

 I've actually been wondering if his cave dwelling time will end up feeling like a weekend retreat instead of seven long years!

I'm wondering how they are going to handle Fergus' aging during those cave-dwelling years.  The actor playing young Fergus is too young to age from 15 to 21 on camera.  I presume the older actor will "play younger" at the end of the Lallybroch section in the same way Sam had to play 10+ years younger in the flashback scenes to his arrest and whipping.

Meanwhile, back on the subject of this episode, where WAS Fergus in that final scene at Lallybroch (the one when Jamie's wagon arrived)?  I guess we can fan-wank that he was off gathering raspberries or some such and that's why he was not home when the wagon arrived.  But I have another theory.  Didn't that scene seem a bit "off"?  The staging of it -- the angle from which it was shot -- the way the driver just sat in his seat, with his back to the camera, instead of getting down and getting ready to help move Jamie into the house  -- it was all weird.  I suspect that when we hear the podcast we may learn that that shot was a pick-up, shot long after the main filming was complete and as such the house was not "dressed' with faux windows, etc.  I'm guessing that's why they didn't turn the camera that way and I'll  bet the guy driving was probably an entirely different actor.  Romann (the actor who plays young Fergus) was probably not available at that point or he was available but had hit such a growth spurt since he filmed his episode 2 scenes that they did not want to show him on camera in this episode.  Just a theory.

2 hours ago, Squirrely said:

Whew, the executions were even rougher to watch/hear than read about. I was crying like a baby. They really nailed those scenes.

But I think they missed an opportunity.  They kept in the two very young men and even made a point of Rupert begging for leniency for them.  But they left out the fact that the Redcoats granted them the small mercy of being allowed to walk out and be shot together.  They characters did it -- they walked out together -- but the ep didn't make it clear that it was a (very small) act of mercy by the English.

ETA:  Àdhamh Ó Broin, the Gaelic consultant on the show has confirmed that Jamie's words just after Rupert death were "Goodbye (or farewell) Rupert."

https://greatscotblog.com/2017/09/12/outlander-episode-301-the-battle-joined-all-the-gaidhlig-bits-i-could-decipher/

Edited September 13, 2017 by WatchrTina

[toolazy]

10 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Can someone please refresh my memory - do we like Matthew B. Roberts' writing?  Do we like his episodes?

Yes.  

[Petunia846]

7 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Meanwhile, back on the subject of this episode, where WAS Fergus in that final scene at Lallybroch (the one when Jamie's wagon arrived)?  I guess we can fan-wank that he was off gathering raspberries or some such and that's why he was not home when the wagon arrived.  But I have another theory.  Didn't that scene seem a bit "off"?  The staging of it -- the angle from which it was shot -- the way the driver just sat in his seat, with his back to the camera, instead of getting down and getting ready to help move Jamie into the house  -- it was all weird.  I suspect that when we hear the podcast we may learn that that shot was a pick-up, shot long after the main filming was complete and as such the house was not "dressed' with faux windows, etc.  I'm guessing that's why they didn't turn the camera that way and I'll  bet the guy driving was probably an entirely different actor.  Romann (the actor who plays young Fergus) was probably not available at that point or he was available but had hit such a growth spurt since he filmed his episode 2 scenes that they did not want to show him on camera in this episode.  Just a theory.

Agree with this, plus, I can fanwank that Jenny and Ian wouldn't want Fergus to see Jamie like that. I can imagine they maybe ordered the boys away to do some chores while they take care of the worst of Jamie's problems. It's a little thin, but it keeps me from being annoyed that Fergus wasn't there.

[Nidratime]

Well, I doubt Jenny and Ian's household were expecting Jamie to arrive in a cart. It's possible the kids were off doing their chores or whatever they normally do during the day other than just sitting around.

Plus, a strange cart unexpectedly coming up the road during those tense times when they know battles have been going on, especially since Jamie sent back his men -- I can imagine Jenny and Ian would not want the kids to come running out to greet that cart.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Nidratime

[kelaney]

Adding to the genetics discussion, my husband is blond and I am a brunette.  Three of my four children were born with (and still have) very red hair.  One of the first things the nurses in the delivery room said was, "Where does the red hair come from?"  And it kept being asked the entire time we were in the hospital (and ever since).  As someone upthread said, it's a recessive gene and both parents have to carry it but not necessarily exhibit it.  So if Claire didn't carry the gene for red hair, she and Jamie couldn't have had a red headed child no matter how red his hair was.  Anyway, as the saying goes, if I had a dollar for every time I've been asked, "Where does that red hair come from?" in regard to my children, I'd be a rich woman.

[Ziggy]

On 9/11/2017 at 0:06 PM, toolazy said:

I've seen people complaining here and there that we don't need all of the background about her life with Frank.  That may be true but we have to consider that we might need this background to better understand Brianna.  After all, this is her childhood we're going to witness.  So maybe it is only a small part of Claire's character, it is huge for Bree and unfortunately, she is a much more major character in future seaons/books than she is right now. 

Another reason to show it is that they can't have half of the season that is virtually bereft of Claire, so they have to give her something to do that is more substantive than perusing historical materials and drinking with Roger, though that's a show I would totally watch.  So, they show us more of her life with Frank, which I have to say I'm loving - she'll be back with Jamie in just a few episodes.   I hope future episodes are structured more like the books so that the discoveries they make in the 20th century are then portrayed in the 18th century.  

I agree with you that it is important for us to see Bree's childhood.  I think it's also important to see how these events shaped Claire.  The person we saw at the end of Season 2 is not the same person Jamie sent through the stones.

It's interesting how so much of the story in the books is told in flashbacks.  So much of what we learn of Bree's childhood is told in snippets throughout the rest of the books.  I wonder how much will be included this season.

[Nidratime]

I can't wait until Claire shares the photos of Bree with Jamie in the print shop. I wonder if they'll do anything special with that, like show him a photo and then have an action shot develop from the photo as Claire explains the circumstances of the photo. That would be so cool.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Nidratime

[Ziggy]

On 9/10/2017 at 8:42 PM, Thalia said:

I liked the little talk between Rupert and Jamie.  By the time I read VOY for the first time I'd forgotten who threatened to turn him in for killing Dougal.

Wasn't it Willie (MacKenzie?) in the books?  It does come up in a later book.

[FnkyChkn34]

14 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Wasn't it Willie (MacKenzie?) in the books?  It does come up in a later book.

Yes, it was Willie in the books who witnessed the murder, but does anyone actually threaten to turn him in?  I can't remember.

[abbey]

If I remember correctly willie told someone else who eventually sees Jamie and tells him he knows and threatens him.  Young Ian overhears and dispatches the guy with a well placed arrow.  Ian then has to make a fast escape.

Edited September 15, 2017 by abbey
spellcheck!

[LadyChaos]

I think the depressing marriage between Claire and Frank will only last 3 maybe 4 eps at most.  We also have to remember we need to go back to present day where she, Brie, and Roger are looking for Jamie.

[WatchrTina]

I just listened to Ron's podcast for this episode.  I found it interesting that he had originally wanted to film the Battle of Culloden straight through in real time (the whole thing only lasted about 15 minutes) but ultimately could not do it due to budget  constraints.  He made reference to The Battle of the Bastards in Game of Thrones as an example of a battle shot in that manner so I can understand why it would have eaten up more than its fair share of the season's budget.  He then re-wrote the script the way we saw it -- seen in flashbacks from the point of view of Jamie's post-battle delirium.  I'm glad he had to re-write it that way because I think it made the drama much more personal.  It also gave me a way to fan-wank around the fact that the Jamie/BlackJack fight is bathed in the golden light of the setting sun.  That makes NO sense given that in the last episode of season 2 we saw them gearing up for the battle in the early morning hours and we know the whole thing only lasted 15 minutes.  But if you view those scenes as Jamie's hazy memories (and I do -- especially the shot where Jamie & BJR are the last two standing) then that glowy sunset lighting (which was apparently coming from a real sunset) makes sense.

The revising of the Culloden scenes, however, must have been the reason why the revised script came in too short (estimated at less than 40 minutes), necessitating the writing of the whole walking-around-the-empty-apt scene as we all as the cooking-on-the-fireplance and meeting-the-neighbor scene.  I found that interesting because at first I felt like there was almost too much Frank & Claire in the episode.  But now I'm coming to grips with the fact that I am so firmly #TeamJamie that any Frank/Claire scenes are just going to grate on my nerves and I need to just hunker down and deal with it. 

The other interesting point from the podcast was the news that Ron had originally intended to end the episode with Jamie's return to Lallybroch and that camera pan up from the wagon to the stone medallion over the archway.  During editing he made the change to the episode ending on the nurse asking "Where did that red hair come from?" I think that is SO much better.  You can practically hear a needle scratch across a record as Claire & Frank's heart-felt rapprochement gets doused with cold water.  #TeamJamie

Edited September 16, 2017 by WatchrTina

[WatchrTina]

Double posting to say that Connie Verzak's photo-recap of this episode is up.  Here's the link:

http://tvkillstime.com/2017/09/13/outlander-recap-301-the-battle-joined/#more-12702

Edited September 19, 2017 by WatchrTina

[AheadofStraight]

Adding this from Ron's twitter Q&A since it was discussed at length here:

Just to get it out of the way: the rabbit was about Jamie seeing a bit of beauty and life amid all the death and horror. Nothing more.

[Kim0820]

On 9/11/2017 at 8:17 AM, AheadofStraight said:

Frank didn't like the American version of tea but is okay saying "diaper" instead of "nappy". I know that was for the American audience but it stood out to me. 

I had not caught that.  I could think Frank was newly in America, living there now, so he thought he'd try out some Americanisms.

On 9/11/2017 at 11:12 AM, lovetowrite73 said:

YES to this! I said to my boyfriend, OH, that's Frank, not Black Jack. Grr...

I thought that same way until I noticed his hair - it was Frank's 1940s hairstyle.  What a relief!

On 9/11/2017 at 11:13 AM, DittyDotDot said:

It's interesting to me how almost backward "modern" medicine can be. I remember when I was a kid (1970s) it was unusual to see anyone ever breastfeed a baby. When I asked my mom why she didn't with any of us, she said the doctors told her it was cleaner and safer to bottle feed. 

Yes, bottles were the thing.  It was the rise of the consumer age.  Wall Street wanted you to buy bottles and formula rather than take advantage of the free breast milk!

On 9/11/2017 at 1:24 PM, lianau said:

Eventually the 60s research catches up with Jamie in his corresponding time frame (time moves at the same speed in the 18th century and 20th century ) I hope that wasn't to spoilery .

It does seem established that time moves along at the same rate, day for day, if you go through the stones.  You won't go back to the same day and minute you left.  So Claire spent 1743-1746 and got back to 1948, so the 20th century 3 years passed without her.  

On 9/11/2017 at 3:42 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not married, but if I were Frank or a spouse in his situation, I think I'd just have to move on with my life and get a divorce.  It's too... weird.

Being divorced was a huge deal back then, and if she was the one who wanted it, she'd certainly have to give up her baby.  He'd get custody.  There was no no-fault divorce - he'd have to prove a ground, like adultery or abandonment.

On 9/11/2017 at 6:42 PM, nodorothyparker said:

It gave me a snicker too.  I'm a white girl so dark I occasionally get asked if I'm biracial.  My oldest is so blonde and blue-eyed he could be the poster boy for Aryan childhood.  He looks like a grandparent on each side who does have those attributes.  Genetics are funny things even when you don't have a red-headed birth father from another century.

We have a cousin who is a redhead and no one in either parent's family knows where it could have come from.  

Jamie has all the luck.  BJR's corpse keeps him from bleeding out.  The officer who finds them and executes them happens to be the big brother of John Gray.  It seems he was meant to live.  I do wish he'd go to BPC and say "I told you so, many times."  And then slug him.  

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Kim0820
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