S05.E10: To Right the Wrongs of Many

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

I don't understand why none of the Ledas took in Charlotte, that was random and kind of sad. Although maybe they didn't want to raise someone who was gonna look like them in the future, or something? Either way, it needed more explaining.

The idea of Delphine and Cosima going on a road trip to cure all of the clones looks fun.

I'm going to assume Charlotte is staying with Art and his family while Delphine and Cosima are on the road with the understanding that she can move in with them when they are done traveling if she doesn't still want to stay with Art. Also, she will babysit for Helena occasionally.

 

I think Sarah not taking the GED test was a choice based at least in part on it not being the path she wanted to take. 

 

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Donnie's new job was putting in concrete floors ?   Tee hee.

I totally missed this!

[colorbars]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

I don't understand why none of the Ledas took in Charlotte, that was random and kind of sad. Although maybe they didn't want to raise someone who was gonna look like them in the future, or something? Either way, it needed more explaining.

Who would have, though? Cosima was off traveling the world with Delphine for who knows how long, Alison has already taken in Helena and her twins babies (plus her own two children), and Sarah was already feeling insecure about being a mother to Kira, don't think she was in a place to take Charlotte, too. Rachel was the only real option, to me, and they bonded in S4, and her wanting to be a mother was a big thing for her throughout the show. But with Charlotte ending up in Clone Club's care, I can't see them handing her off to Rachel like that, so.

I think Art makes sense; he's always looked out for the sestras and taken care of them. It's fitting for him to have taken in the littlest one. At least for now. Maybe she'll end up living with Cosima and Delphine once they get back.

[Cranberry]

Cosima said, flat out, in this episode that she is not maternal. I'm not sure why a good portion of the fandom is so set on her and Delphine having an (adopted) child.

As someone who likes and is good with kids but has never wanted any of my own, I'm often irked when TV shows give their "endgame" couples a kid in the finale -- often when they'd previously displayed no maternal/paternal instincts or desire to have children -- as if having a child together is the only legitimate happy ending for any couple. (Pretty Little Liars is the most recent example I can think of; three of the four endgame couples either already had kids, were pregnant, or were adopting.) I'm glad Orphan Black refrained from that.

[natyxg]

2 hours ago, colorbars said:

Who would have, though? Cosima was off traveling the world with Delphine for who knows how long, Alison has already taken in Helena and her twins babies (plus her own two children), and Sarah was already feeling insecure about being a mother to Kira, don't think she was in a place to take Charlotte, too. Rachel was the only real option, to me, and they bonded in S4, and her wanting to be a mother was a big thing for her throughout the show. But with Charlotte ending up in Clone Club's care, I can't see them handing her off to Rachel like that, so.

And Charlotte was cloned from her, which I think was supposed to mean that she was her daughter, so to speak. But even though they seemed to have planned to go down this route at the time they said this and let them bond in season 4, they took Rachel down another path until the show was almost over, and poor Charlotte ended up sort of bouncing around. 

To me her staying with Art is just weird. 

[LittleIggy]

23 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Actually, I sort of wish Charlotte was counted as one of the sestras in the end. Maybe not sitting in that inner circle, but a nod or something.

They showed her arriving to the party with Art and his daughter. I guess Charlotte is living with them.

I still don't get why they changed Alison's personality. They blanded her down, IMO. I liked her original personality.

Anyway, so glad Cosima and Delphine got a happily ever after. I'm just wondering what the Ledas were told to get them to take the treatment.

[Enigma X]

Just now, LittleIggy said:

They showed her arriving to the party with Art and his daughter. I guess Charlotte is living with them.

I still don't get why they changed Alison's personality. They blanded her down, IMO. I liked her original personality.

Anyway, so glad Cosima and Delphine got a happily ever after. I'm just wondering what the Ledas were told to get them to take the treatment.

Other than the awful haircut, Allison seems the same to me. 

I know Charlotte was there, but she was not considered a sestra.

[madam magpie]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

Cosima said, flat out, in this episode that she is not maternal. I'm not sure why a good portion of the fandom is so set on her and Delphine having an (adopted) child.

She also said she didn't know why that was: selfish, scared? Something else? She never said she didn't want children. Maybe she doesn't. I don't know.

The reason we latched onto the idea is because it makes logical story sense. Delphine promised to love all the sisters and to protect them; that came up several times. And Charlotte spent most of this season with Cosima. I like Art a lot, but Charlotte living with him forever comes totally out of nowhere. Rachel and Cosima were the two clones Charlotte was closest too. That she ended up with neither is a weird storytelling choice. It would have been interesting to see her go with Rachel, but whew. Nutty. Plus Rachel is isolated from the group. Cosima/Delphine already have a relationship with Charlotte. It's not like they'd have picked up some random baby at the end. Of course they'd be fine as a couple with no child. But it is kind of sad that Charlotte ended up with a random family of people she met five minutes ago when she's supposedly part of this extraordinary sisterhood. If she's just staying with Art until Cosima/Delphine can save everyone and get settled, though, it's not sad.

Edited August 14, 2017 by madam magpie

[natyxg]

29 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

She also said she didn't know why that was: selfish, scared? Something else? She never said she didn't want children. Maybe she doesn't. I don't know.

The reason we latched onto the idea is because it makes logical story sense. Delphine promised to love all the sisters and to protect them; that came up several times. And Charlotte spent most of this season with Cosima. I like Art a lot, but Charlotte living with him forever comes totally out of nowhere. Rachel and Cosima were the two clones Charlotte was closest too. That she ended up with neither is a weird storytelling choice. It would have been interesting to see her go with Rachel, but whew. Nutty. Plus Rachel is isolated from the group. Cosima/Delphine already have a relationship with Charlotte. It's not like they'd have picked up some random baby at the end. Of course they'd be fine as a couple with no child. But it is kind of sad that Charlotte ended up with a random family of people she met five minutes ago when she's supposedly part of this extraordinary sisterhood. If she's just staying with Art until Cosima/Delphine can save everyone and get settled, though, it's not sad.

And this after her original mother died, then Susan took her in (and later died). Then Rachel took care of her for a while then forgot about her. Then Cosima took care of her and then abandoned her too. This is the making of a traumatized adult, but I doubt it crossed their mind (the writers) because she was an afterthought. I guess her staying with Art was because of a process of elimination: Alison already got Helena, Sarah thinks she is a bad mom, Cosima is traveling the world, Clone Club never fully forgave Rachel so no way they would let her have her, welll theeen....

Edited August 14, 2017 by natyxg

[madam magpie]

9 minutes ago, natyxg said:

And this after her original mother died, then Susan took her in (and later died). Then Rachel took care of her for a while then forgot about her. Then Cosima took care of her and then abandoned her too. This is the making of a traumatized adult, but I doubt it crossed their mind (the writers) because she was an afterthought. I guess her staying with Art was because of a process of elimination: Alison already got Helena, Sarah thinks she is a bad mom, Cosima is traveling the world, Clone Club never fully forgave Rachel so no way they would let her have her, welll theeen....

Yes, that's a lot of loss. I suspect you're right that there wasn't a lot of consideration of Charlotte; she wasn't a sestra, which surprised me. But I loved her! I also just read an interview, though, with Graeme Manson where he said he liked the Cosima/Delphine idea and that Charlotte was just "staying" with Art for a bit. So...

Edited August 14, 2017 by madam magpie

[Captanne]

Saw it last night.  Loved it.  Does anyone here remember "The Stepford Wives"?  The "party" at Allison's gave me the feeling we'd entered the Stepford's House or the grocery store scene from that film.  To much astroturf and primary colour.  That's a stylistic problem and -- maybe a Canadian view of Eden?  It was jarring so I'm not sure it was with faux-happiness in mind (which is the feeling it gave me and may be why everyone was expecting a sudden Big Bad to arrive.  The sense of fake, plastic, almost doll-house-like perfection leads one to think, maybe, it's a dream.)

Aside from that weird atmosphere at Allison's, I thought the end was perfect.  I loved that they help each other deal with their issues (note, Allison mentioned her drug dealing but not her addiction or that ghastly murder she committed, or the fact that she buried a body in her garage.)  Because PT was such a new character for me, I didn't feel the guilty gratification that I was meant to when Sarah drove that canister through his face.  I was kind of taken aback.  But I do understand the motives and I think Maslany sold it.

 

I have other thoughts but they'll have to wait for when I have more time.

[tennisgurl]

So that was Orphan Black! A show that had frequent plot issues, but wonderful characters and amazing acting, meaning that it will always have a special place in my heart. While the episode probably wrapped up its action a little too quickly, the shows strength has always been its characters, so I'm glad that's what they focused on. Plus, Helena got to stab one more bad guy to her music cue, so that's something!

I really liked the finale, and how everything wrapped up for all the characters. Helena gets her babies and peace, Allison and Donnie have their suburban fantasy, Sarah is going back to school, Cosima and Delphine travel the world inoculating clones, it was really lovely. I even liked Rachel's ending, not as a member of Clone Club, but helping out and finding independence. I think that's the best possible ending for her at this point.

I loved the memories of Mrs. S, including the big portrait of her holding a cup of tea and a shotgun! That's Mrs. S in a nutshell.

I almost wish we could follow Cosima and Delphine's international road trip of clones, maybe in a web series. The Columbian clone seemed like a fun character, and I want to see Tatiana do more accents damn it!

Awwww Helena named her sons Arthur and Donnie! That was adorable.

Overall, I loved how the show wrapped up, even without tons of drama and action. Like I said earlier, that was never really the shows strong suit. Better to focus on our characters, and how amazing Tatiana is. If I ever met her, I would start doing the Wayne's World "We`re not worthy" bowing all over the place.

[Captanne]

I think the cat scene with Mrs S had a lot of potential that was squandered by the actress who plays her. Pun intended, that scene was pregnant with double entendres. If nothing else, the fact that Mrs S knew what it meant for a Leda to get pregnant, she should have been freaking out waiting for Sarah's decision. All while appearing to let her make her own choice. I got. One of that gravity from Mrs S. just a planned parenthood public service address. 

I'm on my mobile -- sorry for spelling. I meant CAR scene. 

And, correction, I got NONE of that gravity. 

[Kaboom 2.0]

This was a mostly satisfying finale. No finale (of shows that I watch, anyway) is totally perfect. Would I have preferred Enger to have been taken out permanently? Of course! But not if by doing it gets Art in trouble/fired. I mentioned to the boyfriend of the dream-like quality of the epilogue was making me nervous that this was another dream/hallucination just like we had seen in a previous season; we were both glad it was not. I did miss seeing Jesse Towing again but actually preferred that the supporting male characters who had been there either since the beginning or were brought in later seasons were the ones present. And I will never trust Rachel, even though she did give Fe the list of all the clones. 

As much as it tickled me that Donnie's current employment is anything having to do with concrete, if he's actually putting in concrete floors why was he in a suit? He should also have a side job as jackhammer consultant. Thank you, OB team, for a final KB almost-naked dance scene! 

Re: how robust Orange and Purple looked at the epilogue, as we were watching and I squealed about wanting to pinch those red little baby cheeks, the boyfriend said those babies looked kinda big. I hand waved that the twins shared Helena and Sarah, and Kira's, ability to heal quickly. Right? 

LOVE that we had those final scenes of the Sarah/S flashbacks, both in the car re: Sarah's pregnancy and of course, S being there during Kira's birth. MDK as S was a revelation, almost as much as (again, for me) Tatiana. 

Thank you again, OB team and to the fans and posters here, for making such a great show and for making watching such a great show such fun, respectively. 

[natyxg]

26 minutes ago, Kaboom 2.0 said:

Re: how robust Orange and Purple looked at the epilogue, as we were watching and I squealed about wanting to pinch those red little baby cheeks, the boyfriend said those babies looked kinda big. I hand waved that the twins shared Helena and Sarah, and Kira's, ability to heal quickly. Right?

I assumed some time had passed. Sarah was supposed to have been studying for her GED for who knows how long, Rachel's eye was healed, etc.

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, Kaboom 2.0 said:

As much as it tickled me that Donnie's current employment is anything having to do with concrete, if he's actually putting in concrete floors why was he in a suit? He should also have a side job as jackhammer consultant.

Donnie reminded Alison that he's not installing the concrete - he's merely convincing customers to buy it. Now, if Donny was house husband and Alison was in the concrete biz, then we'd have gotten to see her carrying around that jackhammer. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Two clips:

Birth:

An embroidery:

[Fairlily26]

Just came to say I fully enjoyed this series and series finale.

The bday party made me super happy because it reminded me if the fantasy Helena had when she was pregnant.

Great show, great finale, I'm left more satisfied than the bullshit true blood fed me so all in all. Great job show!

[bosawks]

The thought of the Cosima and Delphine inoculation road show makes me smile.

[Haleth]

On 8/13/2017 at 6:00 PM, meep.meep said:

Donnie's new job was putting in concrete floors ?   Tee hee.

Ha!  Well he does have experience.

I thought it was fitting that only the four sestras were together at the end.  They were the ones who were central to the fight and the ones who took down the baddies.  (Rachel helped but was never going to be embraced by the other four.  And it isn't in her character to hang out with the girls, drinking beer and baring her soul.)

Those four actresses sure have chemistry together.  Oh, wait.

[LadyArcadia]

Did they ever really explain why Kira was "special" (healing, able to feel emotions, etc.)?

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, LadyArcadia said:

Did they ever really explain why Kira was "special" (healing, able to feel emotions, etc.)?

I don't think so, but maybe quantum entanglement?

[AfterwardsTV]

Where we ended up (basement and operating room) made for some very memorable final showdowns. Art didn't kill anyone but he was still utilized well. I always imagined the ending to Orphan Black would involve a lot of twinning since Seasons 1-3 dug its best material out of their central relationship. The birthing scene was weirdly beautiful. The grit stood out to me more than the epilogue, but the epilogue did some character arcs justice.

Sarah was the kind of mother who only kept her child to stick it to someone else. If S was dead and Sarah hadn't had any character growth at all, the abortion would've been the humane route for poor Kira. Sarah taking over the home was poignant, don't know if she got her GED but it's worthless compared to her true life lesson.

I guess Cophine don't want Charlotte. Over half of those 274 clones are probably dead already. Still itches my brain that Delphine doesn't know how Leekie perished.

Alison still sucks at bloody cues and wants to shove socks in people's mouths, for those worrying her fugly hair morphed her. I won't lie, I wanted something more out of her metamorphosis than what we got. I guess she and Donnie will just strip and play piano for the rest of their lives, unless they keep shopping for hobbies.

It clearly isn't healthy for Rachel to be around sestras. Felix played the buffer, but I wanted her to crash the party briefly. She's like the Mona that's outside the Liars. They showed the restraint here to give her a somber ending. Not everyone needs clone connection vibes and clone cook-outs to be fulfilled.

Helena took up base in that infamous garage. Babies could never be safer than in there. Seriously, no one in clone club has ever been hurt in there, it's always the grave for enemies. (However I'll remind you all that Enger took those bodies out). So now the Hendrix's backyard is only the grave for Helena's tank babies. I get why Helena gave her baby boys real men names to honor those two characters, but I think I wanted one more dose of outlandishness. I think her twins will grow up craving sandburgers instead of jamburgers. I would watch a movie/spinoff comprised of just Helena mother stories. 

Farewell to this twisted train track of thrills, chills, and kills. Congrats Orphan Black, you were evolution.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, AfterwardsTV said:

Sarah was the kind of mother who only kept her child to stick it to someone else.

Are you referring to Sarah's initial choice to not have an abortion? I saw that as more of her wanting to have the identity of "mother" like many young women do.

 

4 hours ago, AfterwardsTV said:

Congrats Orphan Black, you were evolution.

Hah! Great play on words.

Edited August 20, 2017 by shapeshifter
Potentiallly disastrous typo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A closer look: the end

[holly4755]

this video is private,

[Eureka]

I'm just now catching up on the last episode. The scenes of S and Sarah are killing me, so sad.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Eureka

[romantic idiot]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:52 PM, LadyArcadia said:

Did they ever really explain why Kira was "special" (healing, able to feel emotions, etc.)?

Sorta. Apparently the took guy with the L20 or whatever gene and spliced it into the Leda DNA. It didn't show up in Leda, but did show up the next generation i.e .Kira. 

Now the part about being able to feel all the sisters? No explanation given. 

[AudienceofOne]

Wow, writers who actually understand the need for falling action. Thank God. That was a fantastic ending to a fantastic show. Yes, season 4 is a thing that still exists but by bringing everything home in such an emotionally-satisfying way they made up for it. 

I think I started crying about halfway through and didn't stop. The best thing was that the writers and Tatiana  just understand these characters so well. They're so distinct and so consistent and Sarah's struggle to live a normal life, in particular, was just so true to who she is. I loved how her instinct to pack up and run was so keenly understand, accepted and yet countered by her sestras. Such good characterisation and so glad they devoted most of the episode to it. This is something you see so rarely in sci-fi TV shows these days and it was so welcome.

[Hanahope]

My one beef is the idea that there were another 200+ clones over the world.  Did they all have monitors?  What happened to them?  Were those monitors also part of Neo, or more like Donnie?  

But I am just amazed how well they did this show with Tatiana being every single clone, and many times having to do scenes "with herself".  She did such a great job.

Also, are Helena's frozen eggs still in the container in Allison and Donnie's garden?

[Blue Plastic]

Oh my!  Even with all its faults, I really cared about this show - more than I realized.  It's sad for it to be over.  It is time and it probably should have ended sooner so it could be tighter and not have had some of the too-convoluted plots that it had (like the Castor clones and all the different factions/Dyad/Neo), but I will still miss it.

Usually birth scenes come off just cheesy and annoying to me, but because of how invested I was in the characters I didn't feel that way at all this time.  Loved seeing Sarah so happy while Helena's children were born and the interspersed scenes of Mrs. S coaching Sarah through Kira's birth in the past.  Dammit, why did Mrs. S have to die?  That is just as bad as Hedwig's death in Harry Potter!  It was a relief that no one else was killed.  Was scared Scott might bite it.  I really thought Helena (and the bebehs) weren't going to make it.  I used to hope Sarah would kill Helena and now I was rooting for Helena to make it!  LOL.

Yes, it wrapped up a little too easily.  Hard to believe there wouldn't be some more lingering baddies or some thorny legal questions to answer but whatever.  I liked seeing Clone Club and their loved ones all so happy.  Some suggested a 2-hour finale would have been nice, and I agree.  They had to wrap up the action but also wanted to show us the bittersweet aftermath.

I could have done with a scene of them digging up Ferdinand's body and re-killing him for what he did!

So now we find out how many clones there are and that Helena is the one who came up with the story's title and wrote their story.  So this show was basically Helena's memoirs.  Never would have guessed that.

[Ottis]

On 8/13/2017 at 10:51 PM, LittleIggy said:

I still don't get why they changed Alison's personality. They blanded her down, IMO. I liked her original personality.

Me, either. But then I held the last 6 episodes on DVR for months before I decided to watch them this week, because I had lost the thread of what this show was about after season three. The initial mystery of the clones held my interest for most of the first three seasons. The ever changing alliances and villains lost me. And then Tatiana and her amazing ability to be different people kept me linked even as I stopped watching. I have no idea why Allison came back different. Were they trying to show us how uptight Allison might become happier?

PT came into the picture too late, in too vague a way, for him to feel even slightly realistic. IMO the show would have been better off with the initial villains, vs. bringing in a new one to lead them all.

And I'm heartless, so all the clone time always left me meh. What I did like was how they each processed finally being free, and not being property. If that's what happened.

[Dobian]

On 10/20/2017 at 9:39 PM, Blue Plastic said:

Oh my!  Even with all its faults, I really cared about this show - more than I realized.  It's sad for it to be over.  It is time and it probably should have ended sooner so it could be tighter and not have had some of the too-convoluted plots that it had (like the Castor clones and all the different factions/Dyad/Neo), but I will still miss it.

I'm going to miss it tremendously.  There are very few shows I can say that about.  I wish it ran for fifty more episodes, even though I know they couldn't have sustained it plot-wise.  Maslany did such an amazing job I miss all the characters like they were individual people played by individual actors.  They ended it just right.  I'm glad they wrapped up the whole conspiracy plot in the first half and devoted the second half to wrapping things up with the sestras.  Farewell, clones.