S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[stagmania]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I just think people are making way too big a deal out of the grain and supplies Dany burned up in this episode. By my count she burned perhaps a dozen or so wagons. That's an infinitesimal fraction of resources for a continent this size and probably an inconsequential thing to focus on in this episode and in that battle scene specifically. I think the whole point was for Dany to show her strength here so the Westerosi now know what she can do. I think it's extremely unlikely that the food she burned was meant to be a plot point by the writers and strikes me as a trivial thing to obsess about.

Part of the fun of the forums is to see which details people get super hung up on, spin a bunch of theories around-and then promptly forget when the show never mentions them again.

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Also, anyone notice how similarly dressed and coiffed Jon and Arya were this episode. They gave her the half-bun during her sparring session with Brienne that Jon has had since last season. I thought it was a pretty neat detail.  

Ooh, good catch on the half bun. Their clothing is very similar too, in style and silhouette. I'm really going to lose it when they finally have their reunion.

6 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I love that it's being ignored that Dany damn there got killed in this battle a few times. It would be quite stupid to send her on ventures by herself. 

I never thought she came close to being killed. She never seemed in danger of falling off Drogon, and Jaime's spear didn't even get near her before Drogon blasted him.

Edited August 9, 2017 by stagmania

[Francie]

 And Cersei had Barra murdered because she had the misfortune of being Robert's bastard.  

In the show, that was Joffrey. 

In the books, Varys has laid blame on Cersei. But it's yet to be confirmed. And given Varys offing Kevan, I don't know that he's necessarily to be trusted.  As Tyrion once guessed, he might be trying to drive an even bigger wedge between Tyrion and Cersei. 

I say this not as a claim that Cersei deserves a clean slate against liability for actions. She has a lot to answer for. But not that particular item.

I love the Lannisters because they're entertaining. They make the show for me. But they are not white hat characters, for sure. Tywin is a stone cold killer, ordering the Mountain to level the Riverlands.  I actually think he's more villainous that others might, because I hold him accountable for the Mountain's actions in the Riverlands and for the murders of Rhaegar's young children.  He's at the top, and he's reponsible. 

 Peter is endlessly entertaining, but I can't condone his murder of his Shae.  Cersei is, well, Cersei. And I think there's a lot more to be learned about Jaime.  He did push a child out of a window, hoping that the fall would kill him.  He has to own that, and his reasoning (it was five people's lives vs. one) is subject to much debate. 

 One of the best changes from book to show was Arya being Tywin's cupbearer instead of Roose Bolton's. I thought it allowed the show to flesh the character more.

Absolutely agree, 100%.  

More than the individual characters on this show, I love the pairings. Arya and Tywin in season 2 is one of my favorites. 

[Tikichick]

I'm now afraid for Jon's reunions with Bran and Arya, not that I'm expecting them in this first half of the season anyway. 

[stagmania]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm now afraid for Jon's reunions with Bran and Arya, not that I'm expecting them in this first half of the season anyway. 

If they're disappointing, I will never forgive this show. I've waited so long (I think they're going to make us wait until season 8).

[screamin]

46 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Tyrion didn't want Dany to risk her life scouting on the dragons. WHY he thought she'd be at risk then when at that point in time, no one knew about Qyburn's scorpions is ridiculous. Especially after Dany did the same thing in Mereen when she bombed the ships attacking the city and won victory on that day.

 

I believe the quibble was that arrows aimed at the dragon might strike Dany. Well, yes, but dress her in armor (which, btw, no one has yet thought to do) and that chance would be minimized.

[FnkyChkn34]

31 minutes ago, Heckler52317 said:

I have to agree- sometimes they are...distracting? But with her battle braids and war gown? outfit?- I have found Emilia Clarke stunning! Great work from the costuming etc folks

Sorry, but her hair is distracting too.  I don't care for it.  Her gowns are always gorgeous, but everything above the neck is not working for me.  (As I've said in a different thread, when Emilia is out of costume, she's very pretty - but in that wig, it's a big no from me.)

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

If they're disappointing, I will never forgive this show. I've waited so long (I think they're going to make us wait until season 8).

Oh, I wasn't thinking they would be disappointing per se. 

I'm honestly frightened of what's going on with Bran at this point on several fronts I don't think I can share here.  Sansa's comment to Arya about how happy Jon will be to see her wound up seeming like ominous foreshadowing.

[FnkyChkn34]

21 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I love that it's being ignored that Dany damn there got killed in this battle a few times. It would be quite stupid to send her on ventures by herself. 

That was Tyrion's argument all along, but I also don't think she came close to being killed even once, let alone a few times.  Drogon was able to keep flying and land even when he was shot.

[Colorful Mess]

Agree on siding with the Lannisters because of the actors. They just pop on the screen. The actor I miss most is Jack Gleeson. He just made you love to hate Joffrey in a way that was never realized in the books!

I do think  Dany's team is a lot more interesting on screen because in the books all we have is her as a POV, as she's ruling over all of these red shirts with vowels in their names. In the show, I really liked her better before Mereeen when she was the scrappy underdog who was trying to gain respect while everyone dismissed her as a stupid girl. Now that she's totally empowered with her nukes, I am finding it difficult to separate her from other competitors for the throne.

I really liked Ozzyman's review of this episode. He brought up the fact that the line between good/bad is really blurred now. He roots for Dany because she has a compelling underdog story, as does Cersei (lets not forget her triumphs too!) I thought it was interesting how he argued that the conflict now is a family who took power vs. a family who feels entitled to it. Its an interesting distinction.

Despite its numerous flaws, I just love how this story plays with the audiences allegiances. I think this is the most successful show to do this, since the Wire.

[Pogojoco]

Dany's visions have snow in King's Landing, surrounding the Iron Throne. I seem to recall that "Winter" in Westeros/Essos is a variable thing. Sometimes it's short and sometimes it's very, very long. 

 

In the first episode of this season, the Hound buries those people he and Arya encountered in earlier seasons. It was very snowy, where it wasn't snowy before. It was also snowy in the Riverlands when Arya was there when it wasn't when Robb was there. Even in the scenes when Jon is still running around with Ygritte just south of the Wall, it isn't snowy. There are wildflowers. 

The point to all of this is that as Ned Stark always said, Winter is Coming. That means it's time to store food (because you don't know how long it'll last.) And not burn food (any of it.) 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Pogojoco

[MrsR]

Winterfell in the books had heated greenhouses. They never seem to mention that Winterfell is heated by hot spring water pumped through the walls in the show. It's so freaking cold.

I suspect that other more southern lands have greenhouses. 

 

Dragons can grab fish from the sea. I wish they showed them grabbing big tunas or sword fish from the sea on the show. Yum!

[Pogojoco]

If the sun stops coming out ( short days are a hallmark of winter), greenhouses become pretty useless. Even heated ones. 

I think the thing about winter in GRRM's imagination is that it's the very bad kind of winter, meaning- dark, very, very cold (hard to breathe cold) and dead. Your fingers and toes and nose get frostbite and die. The kind of winter that lasts forever and eventually people end up eating each other because there is no food. I'm imagining the Donner Party, times a million. There is a reason a lot of great horror movies are set in winter (The Thing, The Shining, Ravenous, Let the Right One In). Winter can be hellish. 

Stannis, I think in maybe a released chapter, already has troops eating the dead. The Winterfell chapters in ADWD are quite hellish. People have cabin fever and someone is mysteriously killing people. Not to mention Frey Pies. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Pogojoco

[Katsullivan]

52 minutes ago, screamin said:

I believe the quibble was that arrows aimed at the dragon might strike Dany. Well, yes, but dress her in armor (which, btw, no one has yet thought to do) and that chance would be minimized.

Hard to aim through fire. 

[Francie]

9 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

it's the very bad kind of winter, meaning- dark, very, very cold (hard to breathe cold) and dead. Your fingers and toes and nose get frostbite and die. The kind of winter that lasts forever and eventually people end up eating each other because there is no food.

I highly recommend reading this sentence by imagining Old Nan reading it aloud. 

Really, it's the only proper way to read it.

RIP Old Nan

[Pogojoco]

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

I highly recommend reading this sentence by imagining Old Nan reading it aloud. 

Really, it's the only proper way to read it.

RIP Old Nan

"Oh my sweet summer child, what do you know about fear? Fear is for the winter, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides for years and children are born and live and die, all in darkness. That is the time for fear, my little lord, when the white walkers move through the woods. Thousands of years ago there came a night that lasted a generation. Kings froze to death in their castles, same as the shepherds in their huts. And women smothered their babies rather than see them starve, and wept and felt the tears freeze on their cheeks. So is this the sort of story you like? 

In that darkness, the white walkers came for the first time. They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders big as hounds... "

Edited August 9, 2017 by Pogojoco

[spottedreptile]

21 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

If the sun stops coming out ( short days are a hallmark of winter),

I really can't understand the astronomy of all this. Why does the sun take a hike when the WW bring the Winter?

Edited August 9, 2017 by spottedreptile

[Francie]

Quote

 The Lannisters don't have their hands clean when it comes to the murder of children.  

On more follow up on this, I am not Team Dragon because they are, as the director of this episode called them, the equivalent of napalm or an atom bomb. They are weapons of mass destruction.  It may be worth noting that GRRM started writing these books back in the early to mid-1990s, when the Cold War was winding down. 

The dragons, at best, are only as controllable as their rider. And what if that rider isn't as well-intentioned as Dany (putting aside the recent debate as to whether she's taken a dark turn)?  What if a Kim Jong Un was able to take the reins of one of them? Would people then be so Team Dragon? 

Or is it like Euron Greyjoy would say, people just like to see dragons fly overhead and incinerate everything and everyone in sight. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Francie
typos happen. especially when teh screeeen is smal

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, spottedreptile said:

I really can't understand the astronomy of all this. Why does the sun take a hike when the WW bring the Winter?

I guess the "easiest" way to explain it to myself is that the long night is like a nuclear winter basically. Whatever magic the Others bring with them messes up the seasons. GRRM has said that the reason for the imbalance with the seasons is magical, and that it's something that will be resolved.

Of course, he needs to get his ass in gear and write it.

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I guess the "easiest" way to explain it to myself is that the long night is like a nuclear winter basically. Whatever magic the Others bring with them messes up the seasons. GRRM has said that the reason for the imbalance with the seasons is magical, and that it's something that will be resolved.

Of course, he needs to get his ass in gear and write it.

I take it like when one of the great volcano's erupted, screwed the weather and temperatures for pretty much the entire planet.

[MrsR]

The sun doesn't come out because it's overcast and frequently storming. 

There was a Little Ice Age in Europe during the 1300's till at the latest 1850, (there were alternating warming periods). Also there were years without summers because of volcanic activity around the world. 1816 was such a year because of the Tambora volcano in Indonesia. In the 1600's The Thames would freeze completely over and they would have Frost Fairs on the Thames.

 

Anyway in a world like Westeros, there would be plant adaptation that would allow growing in extreme conditions with human assistance. Yorkshire has a healthy industry where rhubarb is grown in completely pitch black sheds. And there are other greens that can grow in darkness, like sea kale and chicory. The Victorians excelled at this type of gardening.

 

And then of course you have humans that live in such conditions in the real world. Inuit and Laplanders

Edited August 9, 2017 by MrsR

[GrailKing]

On 8/8/2017 at 2:24 PM, Tikichick said:

I can see your point . . . until your last line.  The Randall Tarly presented on screen will never accept someone on the throne who thinks savage Dothraki are an asset to Westerosi civilization.

Or some king who allowed Wildlings pass the wall.

[GrailKing]

On 8/8/2017 at 4:07 PM, KungFuBunny said:

Aw man....I really want the gold not to make it to the Iron Bank and therefore the debt is not paid

1) Maybe Tarley Senior lied to Jaime and has the gold with plans to hold on to it for better leverage or maybe he was always on Oleanna's side.

2) If the gold really is at KL - is Cersei responsible for the transport of it to Braavos/Iron Bank before the debt is cleared? I mean if all Iron Bank rep has to do is give her a "receipt" there's no reason to not kill him once she has that paper and keep the gold. Or Iron Bank rep could get killed on the way back across the seas and I don't remember an army with him in KL.

I think I said this in a diffrent thread, what if QOT gave them 1/2 weight gold like in the books ( gold coins found in the black cells )letting the Iron bank think Cersei try to cheat them.

[Amarsir]

Ignore

Edited August 9, 2017 by Amarsir

[spottedreptile]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

I really liked Ozzyman's review of this episode.

"that's probably  Ed Sheeran." Good one.

Edited August 9, 2017 by spottedreptile

[GrailKing]

On 8/8/2017 at 6:07 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm tired of Lannisters, but I like Bronn.  I root for Jon and the North, but I can't stand Arya.  I don't like Dany, but I like Tyrion.  So I guess I am one of those fans that D&D was talking about.

I like Bronn's one liners, him not so much, I prefer Sansa over Arya, as a person I'm on the fence with Danerys, I like Jon second to Sansa, but I ship nobody except Sansa and Ned  not in show Dayne, Jon Karsi and not in show Val.

[GrailKing]

21 hours ago, screamin said:

Wouldn't Arya have to cut off Sansa's face to manage that trick?

I think it's implied with the Arya being blinded, not necessarily, since she sees Jaquin's dead face and the Waif becomes Jaquin.

[Pogojoco]

1 hour ago, spottedreptile said:

I really can't understand the astronomy of all this. Why does the sun take a hike when the WW bring the Winter?

I just imagine it like the far North and it's twilight or dark for most of the day and that day, in Game of Thrones Winter, that day lasts longer than 24 hours. 

Also, magic. Dragons, dudes coming back from the dead- it's magic. 

21 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I like Bronn's one liners, him not so much, I prefer Sansa over Arya, as a person I'm on the fence with Danerys, I like Jon second to Sansa, but I ship nobody except Sansa and Ned  not in show Dayne, Jon Karsi and not in show Val.

I love not in show Val. I was sad she wasn't in the show. 

If I were on the show, I'd want to play Sansa or Arya- Sansa, mostly for the costumes she's worn and Arya for who she has gotten to share scenes with. Arya's Tywin scenes and her Hound scenes are highlights of the whole series. And Sansa got to hang with Tyrion, Cersei, Margary and Lady Olenna. That's pretty good, as far as richness. 

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

I just imagine it like the far North and it's twilight or dark for most of the day and that day, in Game of Thrones Winter, that day lasts longer than 24 hours. 

Also, magic. Dragons, dudes coming back from the dead- it's magic. 

I love not in show Val. I was sad she wasn't in the show. 

If I were on the show, I'd want to play Sansa or Arya- Sansa, mostly for the costumes she's worn and Arya for who she has gotten to share scenes with. Arya's Tywin scenes and her Hound scenes are highlights of the whole series. And Sansa got to hang with Tyrion, Cersei, Margary and Lady Olenna. That's pretty good, as far as richness. 

did you read this?

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/michele-clapton-on-costuming-the-reunited-stark-children

[FemmyV]

A little late to the party this week, here goes:

Arya's homecoming: sweet and sneaky. Could have used less lip from the guards, but it gave us a moment to see Maisie sit in the middle of the courtyard and take it all in, reliving Arya's early childhood memories on those ramps, and those balconies, and allowed me to completely forget that all that was there was rebuilt after fire from the Bolton attack destroyed everything. Good job! The reunion with Sansa was well done; not without tension but the family devotion ultimately won out. LOVED the sparring scene with Brienne (As Syrio would say, "dead, dead, DEAD.") even if I'm not sure what the point of it was, other than giving herself some satisfaction and showing off.

Put me in the chorus: #justiceforMeera. Jebus, Bran, you could have made up something, just a few sentences, in advance extolling sincere gratitude. We all knew she was going to leave at some point.

HMS Jonaeris is pulling out of port soon! Those two were nearly drooling during Cave Talk. And I gotta love that my girl, Dany, never lost her head so much she gave in without demanding Jon's fealty, first, nor will she, heehee.

Fields of Fire redux: Nice of Lord Tarly to inform us all that the gold had made it through the KL gates. .. and I have to wonder: is it a GoT invention that has local fiefs keeping their own treasuries to be sacked by anyone? I would think Highgarden might have kept a secret vault or two squirreled away in Braavos, or some other secret location. Jamie's cart looked like it contained the family jewels and silver. A lot, but hardly enough to pay off of ALL of the Lannister debt. I digress.

Freaky how you could hear the Horde before you could see it, and no doubt scarier. At this writing, this is my favorite battle in the series so far. By the time it was over, it looked like Armageddon. BOUT FOOKING TIME for the first time in a long time, someone handed the Lannisters their ass. And I say that knowing Jamie is one of my favorite characters. Finally happy to see them hit a genuine setback. So Cersei gets the gold to buy more army — what's she going to feed it with?

Spoiler

In time, Samwell is going to be Lord of the Reach. Combine that with whomever is controlling the Vale and Riverlands - Cersei is and will be fucked.

 

Nice to see how Tyrion's love for Jamie plays out against his desire for victory. Bronn is in an interesting place. I believe he is genuinely loyal to both brothers and loves them both, for the opposing reasons: Tyrion tends to not put him in danger's way quite as much as Jamie, but Jamie's doing so forces Bronn to step up to the plate more often, and brings out his best more often. His recent whining is worrisome, though, in the way that soap operas used to have a tendency to make long loved characters suddenly unlikable before they kill them off.

Finally, I'm with those who were amused at how the lake can go from having two inches of water on the shoreline to a who-knows-how-deep drop off for Jamie to fall into. Must be a spring.

Edited August 9, 2017 by FemmyV

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Since Bran is out of the picture as Lord of Winterfeel and Arya doesn't have any interest in ruling, what I think we're seeing set up is Sansa's purpose and endgame... she's going to feed the survivors during the winter as the Lady of Winterfell.

Yeah, I think it's been telegraphed from her Eyrie arc, it's now moved quicker and it's WF.

Which had to happened since D & D wanted Sansa not Jeyne Poole for emotional explosiveness.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

Hard to aim through fire. 

True, but the fire comes out only one end and in one direction, leaving her open to shots from the side and back (unless Drogon farts fire and we just haven't seen it yet).

And yes, I do agree it was a stupid reason not to deploy Dany. 

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, Normades said:

I'm not clear on that rule because didn't Jaquen at one point appear with Arya's face?

yes, just before she goes blind, and the Waif became Juagen.

10 hours ago, Tikichick said:

We don't know that much about how that magic works, or specifically how the magic Arya is using works since a girl is Arya Stark, trained by No One.     

All I know, is Sansa and Arya mention No One quite often, Sansa wrg to protection, Arya with training.

[GrailKing]

9 hours ago, Drogo said:

For such a floghappy horse's ass himself, Lord Tarly sure has some sweet kids.

Yeah, this version of Dickon is very likable last year's wasn't bad though.

[GrailKing]

7 hours ago, Francie said:

 

I didn't interpret that moment to mean that they had actually taken Arya's face. It was all part of the potion and illusion.  It was more like a hallucination. 

Pretty sure it's all about the person whose face is taken being dead. 

I took it that way, but opened and implied enough that maybe need not be dead, based on experience of the assassin.

I still think Alys Karstark's story isn't finished, since Cersei wants both Tyrion and Sansa dead, and no amount of truth from Jamie is going to stop her.

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, screamin said:

Must'nt forget that Highgarden's production will be less than usual due to men being at war instead of planting and harvesting - AND that Westerosi winter lasts for YEARS - years in which there will be no planting or harvesting. What looks like a comfortable surplus will melt away real fast under such circumstances.

Westeros, must have some great GMO / GMF lab techs for those long winters

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, Tikichick said:

That is absolutely a conversation we should have seen.

unfortunately disregarded or moved off screen like Lady, Sansa and Jons abbreviated catch up.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

After rewatching the episode several times, I have concluded that Sansa's expression watching Arya spar with Brienne is shock and amazement at what her sister has become.

Director's take :http://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-director-matt-shakman-spoils-of-war-dragons-stark-reunions-2017-8

Should dis spell some misconceptions.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Sofie Turner's one of the weakest actors in the show and that's half of the problem with Sansa. But in all fairness to her, the writers are usually so all over the place about Sansa (and this is the second half of the problem) that Sofie probably didn't know what Sansa's face was supposed to emoting in that scene. 

I tend to disagree, watch close, she clearly tells us, her eyes, her hand movements etc., the directors or writers have a hard time with a character as verbally silent as Sansa, almost everything about her is in her thoughts, mannerism and wardrobe, not her voice.

[domina89]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The Dragons are likely feeding from the ocean so they probably won't run out of food for awhile.

I guess that's true unless the WW freeze the ocean.  There's a hint of that in the opening credits around Eastwatch.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, screamin said:

I believe the quibble was that arrows aimed at the dragon might strike Dany. Well, yes, but dress her in armor (which, btw, no one has yet thought to do) and that chance would be minimized.

Hell ! where's her damn saddle !

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Agree on siding with the Lannisters because of the actors. They just pop on the screen. The actor I miss most is Jack Gleeson. He just made you love to hate Joffrey in a way that was never realized in the books!

I do think  Dany's team is a lot more interesting on screen because in the books all we have is her as a POV, as she's ruling over all of these red shirts with vowels in their names. In the show, I really liked her better before Mereeen when she was the scrappy underdog who was trying to gain respect while everyone dismissed her as a stupid girl. Now that she's totally empowered with her nukes, I am finding it difficult to separate her from other competitors for the throne.

I really liked Ozzyman's review of this episode. He brought up the fact that the line between good/bad is really blurred now. He roots for Dany because she has a compelling underdog story, as does Cersei (lets not forget her triumphs too!) I thought it was interesting how he argued that the conflict now is a family who took power vs. a family who feels entitled to it. Its an interesting distinction.

Despite its numerous flaws, I just love how this story plays with the audiences allegiances. I think this is the most successful show to do this, since the Wire.

Ozzy is OH So Good.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I took it that way, but opened and implied enough that maybe need not be dead, based on experience of the assassin.

I still think Alys Karstark's story isn't finished, since Cersei wants both Tyrion and Sansa dead, and no amount of truth from Jamie is going to stop her.

You just answered something bothering me since episode one.  Alys is a remarkable Sansa lookalike in a general resemblance type of way.

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

You just answered something bothering me since episode one.  Alys is a remarkable Sansa lookalike in a general resemblance type of way.

Not sure if it would play out in the books this way since Jon Married her to a Thenn, and can't remember if her hair is reddish or dark.

[ursula]

Did anyone else laugh out loud at this:

 

"My people will never accept a Southern ruler."

----Jon Targaryen, the King in the North.

 

?

[Blonde Gator]

22 hours ago, Willowy said:

Good thought. Also, Dragonstone might be 'immune' to an attack from the dead and the Night King's power due to all that dragonglass. They could grow/raise their own food there if winter is indeed brought by the Night King, and they are unaffected.

Dragonstone is a notoriously poor place to live, and is sparsely inhabited, due to its location so close to the Stormlands.  The castle has been beseiged several times, and the inhabitants almost starved out...The Onion Knight (Ser Davos) managed to make a delivery, thus saving Stannis Baratheon and his very small court.  I think the show makes it less forbidding and grim than it is in the books.  Stannis felt being given Dragonstone as his seat was an insult, since it's such a creepy castle, on such a small holding, with barely any supporting houses, whereas his younger brother was given Storm's End, a fortress of great prestige, with plenty of bannermen, and the traditional seat of House Baratheon.  King Robert meant it as a compliment, though, giving Stannis Dragonstone, as it was the traditional seat of the Heir to House Targaryan (King Bob's grandmother was a Targ).  Sibling squabbles......

The Reach has potential to grow some additional fall crops (and perhaps even Dorne), but as of this episode.....those two areas are lost to Dany, as are her only allies, Elaria Sand & the Sand Snakes, and Olenna Tyrell, Lady Paramount of the Reach.  With the Tarly's turning cloak, the Reach is likely gone for good until the war is over.  Dorne, OTOH, might still support Dany, as Dorne has historical family ties to the Targaryans, but the thing is, without the Sand Snakes (and we only got 3 of the 8 on the show, and no Crown Princess Aryanne of Dorne).....who is ruling in Dorne right now?  Nobody knows.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I am finally caught up to the thread and everything that I want to say have already been said. I do want to add that Arya's homecoming was poignant. I was not expecting overdramatic reunion with Sansa and I thought it was very well handled by the actresses. Sansa was more openly happy to see Arya but it was when Arya reached out to hug Sansa after their talk that chocked me up. Arya is capable of love and she clearly loves her sister. Those two have been through so much and despite not being the best of friends, they deeply love each other. Whatever life throws at them, I am confident they will come through, together. 

Everyone talks about how tragic Arya's transformation is but Bran is the most tragic of the surviving siblings. Meera was right that he died too. I just hope that, we see him lighten up as as he spends more time engulfed in his family' love. 

I struggle to find any reason to root for Dany's claim to the iron throne. I am all for the 7 kingdoms being broken up. In the meantime, she can roast the Lannisters all she wants.

[LanceM]

13 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Dragonstone is a notoriously poor place to live, and is sparsely inhabited, due to its location so close to the Stormlands.  The castle has been beseiged several times, and the inhabitants almost starved out...The Onion Knight (Ser Davos) managed to make a delivery, thus saving Stannis Baratheon and his very small court.  I think the show makes it less forbidding and grim than it is in the books.  Stannis felt being given Dragonstone as his seat was an insult, since it's such a creepy castle, on such a small holding, with barely any supporting houses, whereas his younger brother was given Storm's End, a fortress of great prestige, with plenty of bannermen, and the traditional seat of House Baratheon.  King Robert meant it as a compliment, though, giving Stannis Dragonstone, as it was the traditional seat of the Heir to House Targaryan (King Bob's grandmother was a Targ).  Sibling squabbles......

The Reach has potential to grow some additional fall crops (and perhaps even Dorne), but as of this episode.....those two areas are lost to Dany, as are her only allies, Elaria Sand & the Sand Snakes, and Olenna Tyrell, Lady Paramount of the Reach.  With the Tarly's turning cloak, the Reach is likely gone for good until the war is over.  Dorne, OTOH, might still support Dany, as Dorne has historical family ties to the Targaryans, but the thing is, without the Sand Snakes (and we only got 3 of the 8 on the show, and no Crown Princess Aryanne of Dorne).....who is ruling in Dorne right now?  Nobody knows.

Actually it was Storms End that was being besieged when the Onion Knight manged to smuggle in food to Stannis.

[Blonde Gator]

22 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Actually it was Storms End that was being besieged when the Onion Knight manged to smuggle in food to Stannis.

Ah, right you are, while he was holding Storm's End for Robert during the Rebellion.  D'oh, and that's how Davos knew how to get into Storm's End via the cave, which wasn't warded, so Mel could birth the shadow baby.  CRS moment there, sorry.  The point remains, though, that Dragonstone is not really a fit place for animal habitation, nor for growing food.  I'd hate to be a sheep or cow on Dragonstone now....what with hungry dragons overhead. 

Food is going to be a major problem on all sides, and soon too.  It hasn't been mentioned in the show, but Baelish has been hording food in the Vale for a while, in anticipation of huge shortages with a super long winter in the offing (it is known).  He's cornered the market and is anticipating making a killing on selling some of his grain to the starving people of Westeros during the long winter.  These plans were laid long before the North's realization of the WW's threat.  I'm actually kind of surprised that this hasn't been mentioned on the show, what with the showrunners setting Sansa up to be the savior of the North with her careful logistical planning.  Hmmmm.  I just realized that she may discover this little heretofore unknown factiod, and use it as an impetus to off Littlefinger, in order to consolidate her importance in the North.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see if she's as good of a game player as she thinks she is.  I'd give this motive about a 30/70 shot at this point, but it's plausible.

[FemmyV]

Quote

Sofie Turner's one of the weakest actors in the show and that's half of the problem with Sansa. But in all fairness to her, the writers are usually so all over the place about Sansa (and this is the second half of the problem) that Sofie probably didn't know what Sansa's face was supposed to emoting in that scene. 

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

I tend to disagree, watch close, she clearly tells us, her eyes, her hand movements etc., the directors or writers have a hard time with a character as verbally silent as Sansa, almost everything about her is in her thoughts, mannerism and wardrobe, not her voice.

Normally I would have agreed about Sofie, but it's starting to look like we're finally getting to a place in the story where Sansa is, at long last, getting the chance to wise the fuck up, and act and interract with others in situations where she is (probably) not in the way of physical or psychological harm. Sophie has always been tolerable; Sansa has not.

[GrailKing]

4 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Ah, right you are, while he was holding Storm's End for Robert during the Rebellion.  D'oh, and that's how Davos knew how to get into Storm's End via the cave, which wasn't warded, so Mel could birth the shadow baby.  CRS moment there, sorry.  The point remains, though, that Dragonstone is not really a fit place for animal habitation, nor for growing food.  I'd hate to be a sheep or cow on Dragonstone now....what with hungry dragons overhead. 

Food is going to be a major problem on all sides, and soon too.  It hasn't been mentioned in the show, but Baelish has been hording food in the Vale for a while, in anticipation of huge shortages with a super long winter in the offing (it is known).  He's cornered the market and is anticipating making a killing on selling some of his grain to the starving people of Westeros during the long winter.  These plans were laid long before the North's realization of the WW's threat.  I'm actually kind of surprised that this hasn't been mentioned on the show, what with the showrunners setting Sansa up to be the savior of the North with her careful logistical planning.  Hmmmm.  I just realized that she may discover this little heretofore unknown factiod, and use it as an impetus to off Littlefinger, in order to consolidate her importance in the North.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see if she's as good of a game player as she thinks she is.  I'd give this motive about a 30/70 shot at this point, but it's plausible.

They're getting Sansa's arc back on point, it's just in Winterfell instead of the Eyrie, maybe she has Royce bring her cousin and their food stores, that in book Sansa knows LF is hiding, maybe she discovers LF hidden cash??

2 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

Normally I would have agreed about Sofie, but it's starting to look like we're finally getting to a place in the story where Sansa is, at long last, getting the chance to wise the fuck up, and act and interract with others in situations where she is (probably) not in the way of physical or psychological harm. Sophie has always been tolerable; Sansa has not.

I tend to differ, I think she started way back in season 2, book two with some relapses, like normal people do.

This arc should have been season 5, but ! you know; BUTTERFLIES had to be introduced.