S01.E21: Ragtag

[maraleia]

 

Ward's betrayal and Hydra's shocking secrets are revealed as Coulson's team goes undercover on a mission that leaves no one unscathed.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBIZPGh6_eU

[HistoryGirl]

Here's the artwork for this episode. 

 

I'm most curious about FitzSimmons in this one (had to flip the image to get a proper look).  The bottom part looks like the "lose the ounce" scene from earlier in the season, while the upper half seems to suggest that FitzSimmons are kidnapped and maybe under water?  Also Fitz has his arm in a sling. And as a friend pointed out, they are side by side (technically overlapping, I guess) in the bottom drawing, but are separated in the upper scene. I wonder if this is just a capture from the episode or the artist interpreting something. 

[HistoryGirl]

Two sneak peeks. 

 

Sneak peek #1

(Hilarious. Love Coulson & May playing FitzSimmons)

 

Sneak peek #2

Garrett is a psychopath. 

[dusang]

OMG Coulson accidentally mimicking Fitz's accent cracked me up.  Also, I feel like the whole "Nazi" thing is going to hit a whole new level of discussion with these guys praising Hydra's "less constrained" thinking.

[ottoDbusdriver]

With regards to the first sneak peek, Coulson/May weren't actually playing Fitzsimmons, they were just dressed like them and went by different names (Theo Tiddle and Dr. Rome).

 

And they were trying to sell/trade the icer technology for something, despite the fact that someone else had sold Cybertek the sleepy-sleep gun tech (that's not a mistype, that's what the Cybertek research guys were calling it).  

 

The Cybertek guys indicated that they weren't all that impressed with SHIELD alumni, and they liked Hydra better because they were younger (Hmmmm, that's interesting).

 

As for sneak Peek #2, Ward was juvenile delinquent who went AWOL from a military academy, stole a car, drove a 1000 miles to his home and proceeded to burn it to the ground with his older brother in it (though he didn't kill him) -- Ward as a teen certainly sounds well-adjusted. [/snark]
And Garrett is a self-admitted pyromaniac.

[HistoryGirl]

With regards to the first sneak peek, Coulson/May weren't actually playing Fitzsimmons, they were just dressed like them and went by different names (Theo Tiddle and Dr. Rome).

 

To be fair, they can't exactly use Drs. Fitz & Simmons because presumably they are wanted fugitives and/or don't exist and/or might be familiar in the science and tech community. 

 

For all intents and purposes they were acting like FitzSimmons.  Also, FitzSimmons created the ICER/Night-Night gun.  Hydra informants stole the tech and have been using it, as we saw in T.R.A.C.K.S.  The one scientist even says that the newer grenade is better (what was created using the basics of FitzSimmons' original Night-Night technology).  Coulson/May are parroting the arguing and authorship of the Night-Night gun which makes them FitzSimmons by another name. 

 

Also, I feel like the whole "Nazi" thing is going to hit a whole new level of discussion with these guys praising Hydra's "less constrained" thinking.

Right??!!  I thought it was interesting that they were suggesting that loyal-SHIELD scientists were boring and uninventive. Suggests that Hydra has scooped the upper echelons of the sci-tech department. 

[Sarahastro]

As for sneak Peek #2, Ward was juvenile delinquent who went AWOL from a military academy, stole a car, drove a 1000 miles to his home and proceeded to burn it to the ground with his older brother in it (though he didn't kill him) -- Ward as a teen certainly sounds well-adjusted. [/snark]

And Garrett is a self-admitted pyromaniac.

 

Regarding the second sneak peek, they never specify which brother was inside the house. Garrett simply says, "Did you know your brother was inside?" Later, Garrett refers to Ward's older brother wanting to press charges. Since he specified older there but not earlier, I actually think he set fire to the house with the younger brother inside. He might not have known the younger brother was inside (as he told Garrett, unclear if he was telling the truth), or he might have been trying to kill him as revenge for telling their parents about the abuse.

[HistoryGirl]

Didn't he drown the younger brother?  Wasn't his brother (and sister? My memory is hazy) drowning in a well, begging Ward for help and the elder brother told him not to save the kid. 

[Sarahastro]

Didn't he drown the younger brother?  Wasn't his brother (and sister? My memory is hazy) drowning in a well, begging Ward for help and the elder brother told him not to save the kid. 

 

The younger brother was in the well, but as far as I know we don't know for sure that he drowned in the well. He might have been rescued.

 

I don't think we have heard anything about his sister other than that he has one.

[kitlee625]

I almost died laughing at the May and Coulson scene. It is so hilarious and adorable, especially the way that May completely takes on a Simmons-like personality. I also like when Simmons hears Coulson and May described as old, Simmons immediately jumps to May's defense. Poor Coulson. No one's going to tell you that you look gorgeous and not a day over thirty.

Edited May 3, 2014 by kitlee625

[dusang]

Right??!!  I thought it was interesting that they were suggesting that loyal-SHIELD scientists were boring and uninventive. Suggests that Hydra has scooped the upper echelons of the sci-tech department.

 

I was more thinking that anyone praising a Nazi scientist is... walking a fine line.  Their drug trials are not FDA-approved, if you know what I mean.

 

Also, if the army (?? air force?  General Talbot) is rounding up S.H.I.E.L.D. agents and Hydra agents are named terrorists, WTF kind of company is interviewing them and developing their weapons??  

[Raja]

I was more thinking that anyone praising a Nazi scientist is... walking a fine line. Their drug trials are not FDA-approved, if you know what I mean.

Also, if the army (?? air force? General Talbot) is rounding up S.H.I.E.L.D. agents and Hydra agents are named terrorists, WTF kind of company is interviewing them and developing their weapons??

Special Operations Command draws from all four armed services. Colonel Talbot is USAF.

Trying to have Hydra be bad but not Nazis is causing all kinds on narrative confusion. As you suggested how could any company hire Hydra who were outed because of the SHIELD civil war?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, if the army (?? air force?  General Talbot) is rounding up S.H.I.E.L.D. agents and Hydra agents are named terrorists, WTF kind of company is interviewing them and developing their weapons??

 

Cybertek made the Deathlok prosthetic leg for Mike back in T.R.A.C.K.S., didn't they ?  Or am I remembering that wrong ?

Edited May 3, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Raja]

Making prosthetics is one thing hiring staff from a secret society which was last heard of working with Nazi Germany is something else.

[Kromm]

I almost died laughing at the May and Coulson scene. It is so hilarious and adorable, especially the way that May completely takes on a Simmons-like personality. I also like when Simmons hears Coulson and May described as old, Simmons immediately jumps to May's defense. Poor Coulson. No one's going to tell you that you look gorgeous and not a day over thirty.

 

I know back on ER, Ming-Na may have smiled once or twice, but as May?  I don't think we've ever seen it.  It's... unsettling.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Kromm

[Jeezaloo]

 

Making prosthetics is one thing hiring staff from a secret society which was last heard of working with Nazi Germany is something else.

The United States hired over 1,600 scientists from Nazi Germany after WWII. It's plausible that a corporation would be willing to do the same.

[Raja]

The United States hired over 1,600 scientists from Nazi Germany after WWII. It's plausible that a corporation would be willing to do the same.

I don't think so, the US had already shifted into a Cold War mode and it was the FBI not a HR department which cleared the German scientist of their Nazi history. Germans for the most part who just happened to be born on another side of a political line, not adults who decided to join a secret organization linked to the Nazi's. many may be like Raina and didn't know their organization had a Hydra as its head, but scientist throwing a double armed Heil Hydra would find no love.

[ChelseaNH]

From this week's Elementary:

“My father is a Lovecraftian horror who uses his money to bludgeon his way to ever more foreseen profits.”

"And Credit Versoix is the perfect banking partner for a man accostumed to the aggresive practice of the business."

 

There are "aggressive" businesspeople who would not find Hydra's ethics at all unusual.

[Jeezaloo]

The United States hired over 1,600 scientists from Nazi Germany after WWII.

I don't think so

It was called "Operation Paperclip" and it is a well-documented part of American history.

 

After World War II, the U.S. military hired sixteen hundred former Nazi scientists and doctors, including some of Adolf Hitler’s closest collaborators.

 

As far as corporations not collaborating with the Nazis: Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), for one example among many, helped finance Hitler in the 1930s. Also, Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation had its assets seized in 1942 for similar involvement. So there's also a real-life record of American businesses working with the Nazis.

 

The plot point of Hydra working with corporations is NOT as far fetched as you might think! And it's one of those things that I have respect for the show's writers for including in the show. At certain levels of power, morality just gets in the way - that's why there's still a Hydra and still a TransGlobalTechityTechTechCorp, but SHIELD lies in ruins.

 

How many ethical rules is Coulson willing to break ... in order to preserve the rule of ethics? If none, how long can he hope to survive? Otherwise, at what point do the remnants of SHIELD just start to look like another Hydra, out for its own agenda?

[Raja]

Just look at how the NBA today is reacting to words, I don't think a corporation would be so cavalier to hire a Hydra today. 70 years after they were destroyed with Nazi Germany. Especially since the corporation is not preparing for a possible war with the Soviet Union, whose armies had just destroyed Germany's

[myril]

Just look at how the NBA today is reacting to words, I don't think a corporation would be so cavalier to hire a Hydra today. 70 years after they were destroyed with Nazi Germany. Especially since the corporation is not preparing for a possible war with the Soviet Union, whose armies had just destroyed Germany's

Cavalier ? Companies are interested in profit. Not saying that all companies are all ruthless, but at least for some moral is adaptable (just look at working conditions in textile industries or tech industry in Asia). As long as it gives a profitable advantage ethics are of less importance and a matter of interpretation. HYDRA - they were maybe Nazis 70 years ago but have changed with time, they're different now - Ward said it. And hey, they were just scientists, no murderers, no torturers, just people exploring how the world works and inventing new things; it's not their responsibility, what these things were used for (I don't share such views, but very sure some would use it as excuse).

Edited May 4, 2014 by katusch

[ChelseaNH]

 

Just look at how the NBA today is reacting to words

Words, yes, but they didn't react when Sterling was fined for housing discrimination.  Similarly, shouting "Hail Hydra" would get you fired but just being Hydra could pass without comment.

[dusang]

After World War II, the U.S. military hired sixteen hundred former Nazi scientists and doctors, including some of Adolf Hitler’s closest collaborators.

 

But Hydra is an active enemy combatant -- the better analogy would be to Al Qaeda right now and NO ONE would casually say they are "less constrained" in their thinking.

 

That's the point I was making -- both S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra agents are, at this moment, fugitives from the law.  It seems highly improbable that any company would be actively recruiting from Interpol's Most Wanted list.

[Sarahastro]

But Hydra is an active enemy combatant -- the better analogy would be to Al Qaeda right now and NO ONE would casually say they are "less constrained" in their thinking.

 

That's the point I was making -- both S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra agents are, at this moment, fugitives from the law.  It seems highly improbable that any company would be actively recruiting from Interpol's Most Wanted list.

 

It does seem very improbable, which is one reason I think Cybertech is being set up as the Big Bad for Season 2.

[NCChic]

I haven't seen Coulson so excited about anything like that since he met Cap.

[Happywatcher]

Why were Fitzsimmons running with the idiot ball the entire episode?

 

Looks like May gets her staff back.

[Jediknight]

Ward, you go to Hell.  You go to Hell and you die.

 

Please don't try to redeem Ward, he just tried to kill FitzSimmons.  There's no coming back from that.  That goober better have a world of hurt coming his way.

[Grammaeryn]

Wow, I could feel my heart sinking as the container was jettisoned. The finale is gonna be ROUGH!  Also, Skye's parents being the monsters that killed the village?  Is that metaphorical or literal monsters?

Edited May 7, 2014 by Grammaeryn

[rujasu]

Yeah, Ward is waaaay past redemption now.  I don't think there's any ambiguity there.

 

Also, if FitzSimmons get taken out by being dunked in water while Skye gets miraculously saved from a lethal wound, I'm totally done with this show.

[Actionmage]

Okay, ya'll. My go to saying- timing is everything- was proven as the last quarter or so of this show has been awesome.

Ward frickin' killed Buddy- and long-distance the fucker!  He also flippin' dropped the most adorable things out of the U.K. since hedgehogs and kittens into the ocean!! Someone think of the FitzSimmons!! Save them! Now!

 

Nice call back to Ward's ass of an older brother- lobbying to get Grant tried as an adult for almost killing him. (I did like that there seems to be practically no redemption for Ward, at least going into the next season. Ward seemed to learn his brother's  lessons a bit too well.)

 

While I am glad that we will probably keep seeing Garrett on the show, I was okay with him dying, preferably at Ward's hands and with the line about weakness. (Yes, I'm pissed about a pretend dog.) I understand why Garrett felt the need to turn on SHIELD, but I don't totally agree. Can we keep the barber shop though? That was cool.

 

I am hopeful for May training Skye next season and thankful that May finally set Skye straight on having emotions versus letting everyone in the universe know about them. Melinda May is awesome x infinity. Also, May's training could be helpful when we eventually meet Skye's folks.

 

Trip continues to bring the Good and the Pretty, so he needs to stay. Plus, Son of Coul and he geeking out on Grandad's gadgets? So adorable that May grinned at them/Phil. (Phil needs to apologize a bit more imo, but if May is okay, I'll follow her lead.)

 

"Get ready for a massive download." heh  <the gang from Bloom County> Coulson's funny!</the gang from Bloom County>

 

Can someone pleeeeease smash Quinn's face in again? I have not training, but I'm fine doing it myself. He's just so smarmy.

 

Bring on the finale, True Believers!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Next on a very special episode of Marvel's AoS, some very special monsters give birth to a very special snowflake.

 

To paraphrase from the Simpsons, "According to the gas chromatograph, the secret ingredient in Skye's DNA is .... love !!!  Who's been screwing with the gas chromatograph ?"

 

Ward isn't truly evil because he wouldn't shoot a dog. Killing people, no problem but not a dog. Does that mean he thinks fondly of Fitzsimmons as he would a dog ? Maybe it's a proximity thing -- Ward has no problem killing things he loves when they are far away, but he just can't pull the trigger when he is staring into a loved one's eyes.

 

Fitzsimmons aren't dead -- that cargo container probably has wings and can fly on its own, despite the fact that the impact from the fall would probably kill them.

Edited May 7, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Happy to be here]

How to build a Ward.  

 

"Looks like the jokes on you."   I have never been more proud of Fitz.

 

So Skye's parents are monsters..  <Enter joke here>

[ottoDbusdriver]

How to build a Ward.

 

 

I'm beginning to think that Ward isn't even his real name -- if it was, SHIELD would have known about the whole juvenile detention breakout and his criminal past when they did a background check on him.  

[thuganomics85]

I feel kind of daft, because I was confused over the dog's fate.  I know Ward let him run off at first, but then it showed Ward with his rifle and the dog in it's cross-hairs.  So, my first reaction was that he couldn't kill him when she was looking right at him, but was able to do it from a distant and detached from it.  I assumed it was some kind of parallel thing, with that and him not "killing" Fitz and Simmons with his hands, but by dumping them in the ocean, so he doesn't have to look then in their eyes when they actually die.  But, at this point, I just don't know.

 

I do know that Simmons and Fitz better get rescued.  Simmons, because she's my favorite, and Fitz, because really want him to finally be "Wow, yeah, I was totally wrong.  Ward is a dick!"  Fitz has really gotten on my nerves these past few episodes.

 

Glad to see Tripplet take advantage of the stuff his Howling Commando grandpa had.

 

Also glad that it seems like Ward isn't brainwashed, but always had a bit of screw loose and was an easy target for Garrett.  While he has been side-eyeing Garrett a lot this episode, I really do think he's past the point of redemption.  At best, he can maybe sacrifice himself for the gang, but I will really have problems buying him back on the team now.

 

Bill Paxton continues to be awesome as Garrett.  His addition has just been so much fun for me.

 

Speaking of fun, it nice seeing Coulson be more like his self in the films and Melinda actually getting some funny moments with the undercover sting.  More of that, please.

 

Of course, Skye is going to play a huge part in the finale, but whatever.  Right now, the good is finally outweighing the bad.

[Sandman]

Was it Ward sighting Buddy at a distance? I thought Ward let the dog go, but Garrett took Buddy in his sights, thereby cleaning up Ward's "weakness." Maybe I'm naïve, but I think Ward spared Fitzsimmons in a way he thought would be more convincing to Garrett than his gambit with Buddy.

 

Ward may not beyond redemption, but he is beyond rejoining the team - I think his redemption will be in death, as thuganomics suggests.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Sandman

[HistoryGirl]

Does Fitz still have that damn quarter that Tripp gave him?  I know we saw him with it in his hand when Ward pulled his hand from his pocket (it was next to the buzzer thing which Ward definitely took).  It was unclear if Fitz still had it or not.  I'm thinking he still probably has it. I'm also unsure why the Marvel artist put Fitz with a sling on his arm. Fitz was perfectly fine before he was launched in that pod, so why the sling? 

 

And not showing FitzSimmons in the promo?  You're cruel, ABC. 

[Happy to be here]

I do know that Simmons and Fitz better get rescued.  Simmons, because she's my favorite, and Fitz, because really want him to finally be "Wow, yeah, I was totally wrong.  Ward is a dick!"  Fitz has really gotten on my nerves these past few episodes.

 

 

I kinda get it.  Ward and Fitz had a couple bonding/bros moments and Fitz strikes me as the kind of guy who when he bonds with you it is forever.  He is a bit like a puppy that way.  

[Heather Lynn]

I feel kind of daft, because I was confused over the dog's fate. I know Ward let him run off at first, but then it showed Ward with his rifle and the dog in it's cross-hairs. So, my first reaction was that he couldn't kill him when she was looking right at him, but was able to do it from a distant and detached from it. I assumed it was some kind of parallel thing, with that and him not "killing" Fitz and Simmons with his hands, but by dumping them in the ocean, so he doesn't have to look then in their eyes when they actually die. But, at this point, I just don't know.

I'm with you. I looked again and you only see Ward shooting in the air. You never see who is pulling the trigger behind the scope. I thought Garrett shot the dog to prove that he knew that Ward was weak and Ward jettisoned FitzSimmons to prove that he could both care and get rid of them to show he wasn't weak like he was with his dog. I don't think he could open that door and I'm sure it was bulletproof glass so dumping the container was his only option. Edited May 7, 2014 by Heather Lynn

[KirkB]

Ward didn't shoot the dog because back then he couldn't bring himself to kill something he cared about. This was meant to show he doesn't have that problem anymore (though it might have been a different story if Garrett had told him to kill Skye). But they also didn't want to just kill Fitz and Simmons. This way they get to have the threat of their deaths and some ambiguity to Ward's actions, since he probably could have just sucked the air out of the chamber or something. Fitz can still be convinced Ward was giving them a chance to survive, and so can any remaining Ward supporters watching.

[Maverick]

I don't think Ward killed the dog.  I think he shot and missed hoping Garrett would think he killed him,   Money's on FitzSimmons being alive because Ward shoved them in a watertight container and activated some kind of homing beacon for Coulson to follow.

[Actionmage]

Since Ward had the fade out effect happening as he was setting the controls for the container, I am sort of swayed into  the he-couldm't-save-Buddy-but-he-could-FitzSimmons. Not totally in the camp, but the campfire is awfully nice.

 

Brett Dalton nailed everything in tonight's episode, imo, so kudos to him. Also, Mr. Paxton for giving us such a fun boo-hiss villain to root against ( of for, depending on how you feel.)

[BKWordsmith]

While I liked a lot of the episode, the fact that the entire season's plot has really been driven by one man's petty fear of death immediately shrank the scope of the show again for me.

 

Until now I was holding onto the possibility that Garret was some kind of Hydra leader, someone deeply invested in the organization's cause. Like an evil Coulson.

 

But it turns out he's not. He's just a dirty spy out for short-sighted personal gain, with no grand goal and no philosophy with which to challenge our heroes. And what's Ward fighting for now? He doesn't believe in anything aside from the fact that he owes Garret for getting him out of juvi. While the two of them may technically be Hydra, they aren't acting like it. They don't care about peace through world domination. They don't directly oppose SHIELD in any way. Garret hasn't done anything to further Hydra's goals except for the raid on the Fridge, which liberated one D-list super villain and a minor Asgardian weapon. Garret even downplays his Hydra connection to the degree of scoffing at their salute. How ... cheap.

 

I'm not asking for the Red Skull himself to make an appearance, but I do wish Garret came across at least as an admirer of his. I think if any of the actual Hydra higher-ups found out about Garret's activities they'd bust a cap in his face.

 

The show got a lot smaller for me this week.

[JTMacc99]

There is no way that Ward thought he was killing Fitz (Simmons maybe, but Fitz, no way.)  They don't end that whole dog/weakness back story right before dropping the kids out of the plane without it meaning that Ward still can't kill the family dog.

 

Besides, they set up the quarter thing with new-Ward (who Fitz doesn't trust) having the other one. They showed the quarter AGAIN in his hand after they were captured. So it is pretty obvious the quarter will help the team find him.  They also showed Garrett asking if he could cross Fitzsimmons off the list, or if it were a weakness. I would assume that this plays back to Ward letting the dog go, but I assumed it was Garrett who later sighted the dog in scope and cleaned up after Ward's weakness.* The show also showed us Garrett lecturing Ward to NOT get attached to anybody when he went off to become a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent.

 

There is just WAY too much evidence pointing towards Ward knowing that Fitzsimmons would have a chance to survive the "drop them out of a plane" method of crossing them off the list.

 

* We were also left with the knowledge that Garrett is going to be okay. We were told earlier by Flowers that he has the serum in him, but he told us it didn't make him strong because he was "too far gone". We can probably assume that NOW he will be strong. We can also assume that Garrett will be physically able to once again clean up Ward's weakness. So I guess the question is, will Ward let him kill Fitzsimmons the way he killed the dog?

 

So I'm not overly thrilled that they are going down the path of, "sure he's a bad guy and a murderer, but he can't kill dogs and people with dog-like loyalty."

[hunnybunnyipm]

Hooray! This show has hit its awesome! The last three weeks I've actually WANTED to watch it, and have watched it live rather than catching it on Hulu when I remember it exists. 

 

I don't want Fitz/Simmons to die, but they should die. Even if they live, they need to not redeem Ward w/ him giving them a chance for survival blah blah blah. I think it rings far truer if Ward didn't want to kill them, but still did. I also think it's an interesting "following orders" excuse. Given Hydra's Nazi parentage, I think it makes sense. 

 

I have actually been liking Fitz more lately. The Simmons crush does seem a little shoe-horned in and doesn't really ring true to me (the Skye crush, on the other hand, made total sense). You can have men and women be super close friends without romantic entanglement - I have my own "Fitz" and believe me, zero romance. Anyways, I do love how Fitz's heart seems more broken than Skye's. I sort of love his inability to believe Ward is truly bad. It's a slice of innocence that shouldn't be there, that makes no sense being there, and yet it is. For me, the Cap "universe" has always been the most hopeful one. Iron Man is the smart ass, Thor is the epic family drama, and Cap is the true hero who talks about things like sacrifice and aspires to be the better man.

 

I know we have to live in the real world, where Ward needs a bullet, but it shouldn't be an easy decision. It should be heart breaking and difficult, and only done because there is no other choice. Fitz's faith, however misdirected, kind of scratches that itch for me. 

[rujasu]

I don't want Fitz/Simmons to die, but they should die.

 

No.  Let me be clear here -- if they both die, I am no longer watching Agents of SHIELD.  I don't care if it's "good writing" or whatever.  Much as I like Coulson, he and Skye/May/Trip are just not enough to carry this series for me.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Besides, they set up the quarter thing with new-Ward (who Fitz doesn't trust) having the other one. They showed the quarter AGAIN in his hand after they were captured. S

 

There's only one problem -- when Trip gave Fitz the quarter, Fitz put it in his shirt chest pocket.  Yet when Ward checks his hand, the quarter is in the right pocket of his sweater.

 

And since the quarters conveniently have a homing beacon in addition to being walkie-talkies -- I'm sure the range is 100s of miles and they will be easily found.  I wouldn't even be surprised if FitzSimmons have zero damage from the water impact.

[colormeblue]

 

...and so can any remaining Ward supporters watching.

 

I'm right here!!!

 

I love Grant Ward and think he is a tragic figure. If they deal with his story stereotypically (he turns “good” seconds before giving his life for the team), I am going to be one angry viewer. However, if I am reading the signs correctly, I don’t think they’re going to do that. Why spend so much time on his story if they’re just going to kill him off? Why have so many members of the team comment on his being evil and how angry they are about it if there will be no resolution? Otherwise, they could just have them say, “Grant, we never knew ye!” and be done with it.

 

I think (really, truly hope) the point they’re trying to make is that evil *is* petty. You rarely have arch villains who want the world to be a better place. No, they just want the world to be better for *them.* History is replete with “big bads” who just wanted something more for themselves; they were always petty.

 

Once again I wonder if I am giving the showrunners too much credit but Joss Whedon shows are generally about more in-depth topics and I hope that they’re trying to do a treatise on evil via Garrett and Ward. Garrett appears to me to be a true sociopath; he has no empathy and it is all about him. He probably joined SHIELD because it meant he had power, did fun things and could hurt people legitimately. It was only a matter of time before he rejected SHIELD because they had rules and the power was controlled but, if he was telling the truth, SHIELD unwisely left him to die and fast-forwarded the process of Garrett becoming Hydra.

 

Ward is different. His evil, like so many of ours, was made and nurtured. He came from a family in which his parents didn’t care about him and his older brother was a psychopath. From the narrative this week, they were ready to throw him away and try to pretend he never existed. Although we don’t know why the teenage Ward was in juvy to begin with, he seemed to direct his aggression toward his family. He could have gone anywhere with his stolen car but he went back to them to lash out. That speaks to severe hurt. Garrett acted as a father figure to him. Even though he was never kind (when the bar is set so low, you don’t have to do much to step over it), he believed in Ward and offered him a future. Then, he made certain that Ward didn’t believe in his own goodness by asking him to kill Buddy. If you read the news, that’s the first thing rebel armies do to child soldiers and kidnapped girls: they make them kill someone, often someone they love (like their parents). That way they ensure their loyalty because who else will want them when they have done such evil things? They also can get them to do worse deeds because, after all, when you’ve done such bad deeds already, what’s a little more?

 

Honestly, I don’t think it matters if Ward shot Buddy or not. If he did, he did so because he was forced into it. If he didn’t, then Buddy was still shot regardless of his compassion. No matter what he did, he couldn’t save Buddy. Which is why he “got rid” of FitzSimmons without directly killing them. Ward did the only thing he could do to save them because, even if he didn’t kill them, he knew that Garrett would if they were still around. And make no mistake, Ward still cares about Garrett. This looks like it’s about to change but, for right now, he’s still the best father he ever had and Ward is psychologically about 15 years old. He’s never grown up emotionally which is why I think his “whining” to Skye about her understanding him was valid.

 

So I hope this is where they’re going. An analysis of evil has so much relevance to what is going on in our daily life, with girls getting kidnapped, wars of terror being waged on innocents, corporations doing evil things and getting away with it, and good seemingly being a casualty of our political and legal systems. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Joss has enough influence on the show that it’s not just going to be a cheap thrill but instead has a larger story to tell.

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Monty's post on the episode!

[Sandman]

I think (really, truly hope) the point they’re trying to make is that evil *is* petty. You rarely have arch villains who want the world to be a better place. No, they just want the world to be better for *them.* History is replete with “big bads” who just wanted something more for themselves; they were always petty.

...

 

Although we don’t know why the teenage Ward was in juvy to begin with, he seemed to direct his aggression toward his family. He could have gone anywhere with his stolen car but he went back to them to lash out. That speaks to severe hurt. Garrett acted as a father figure to him.

 

I agree that an enormous amount of evil in the world comes from pettiness and self-seeking. Even Garrett's insistence on earning everything for oneself can be a justification for having no regard for others.

 

Ward was in juvenile detention for burning down his house, wasn't he? Maybe we can't take Garrett's comment about that at face value. I agree that Ward saw a father figure in Garrett, and apparently isn't willing yet to give that up, even if Garrett himself would likely see it as weakness. But Ward was at least careless about whether his younger brother was in the house at the time. We know from Ward that his older brother was cruel, perhaps even a budding sociopath. I don't know that he was psychopathic. I don't know that it matters that much. (I would argue that Ward is a fairly classic sociopathic type, probably more by indoctrination by Garrett/ S.H.I.E.L.D./HYDRA than by inclination.) The hurts Ward suffered, real as they were, aren't enough to justify killing his brother.

 

In other news, people underestimate Simmons at their peril; but I really wouldn't want to be on Fitz's shit list, either. Not when he has the Joy Buzzer of Doom in his pocket.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Sandman