S03.E08: Episode 8

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Ross is adamant George will lose in the election and determines to get a headstone made for Agatha's grave, something Trenwith has neglected. George, meanwhile, questions Dwight over Valentine's legitimacy and - paranoid and jealous - shuts himself to Elizabeth, as Rowella begins to seduce Osborne Whitworth and Demelza receives tokens of Hugh's affection. Sam continues to pine after Emma, as Dwight instructs Osborne to forego intercourse with Morwenna and Cary informs Lord Falmouth that the Warleggans will be opposing Falmouth in the election. Ross returns from his mine to discover Hugh Armitage at Nampara with Demelza - and this time Hugh's attention does not go unnoticed..

[NorthstarATL]

I've never been certain whether Rowella wants Morwenna's husband for her own, or if she was toying with him for amusement, and to alleviate some of Morwenna's burden, but this episode I decided to dislike her immensely because she caused Morwenna hardship and she seems to actually have no taste in men whatsoever.

  I liked Ross and Elizabeth behaving as adults for once. For the first time, though, I didn't like what Demelza did at the end. She was very fair and honest about what she told Ross, but, really, there's honesty and then there's passive-aggressiveness, and I think she crossed that line.

  The addition of Demelza's brothers helps round out her character, though. I like her interactions with them quite a bit. Poor Sam. Looks like the girl he's after also plays around with Warleggan's chief henchman. That will only lead to pain.

  Dwight and Caroline are the best. Glad to see Jeffrey Charles return, but kind of wish he'd be more broken up over Aunt Agatha. They were each other's support for most of his life.

[Jacks-Son]

11 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

I've never been certain whether Rowella wants Morwenna's husband for her own, or if she was toying with him for amusement, and to alleviate some of Morwenna's burden, but this episode I decided to dislike her immensely because she caused Morwenna hardship and she seems to actually have no taste in men whatsoever.

  I liked Ross and Elizabeth behaving as adults for once. For the first time, though, I didn't like what Demelza did at the end. She was very fair and honest about what she told Ross, but, really, there's honesty and then there's passive-aggressiveness, and I think she crossed that line.

  The addition of Demelza's brothers helps round out her character, though. I like her interactions with them quite a bit. Poor Sam. Looks like the girl he's after also plays around with Warleggan's chief henchman. That will only lead to pain.

  Dwight and Caroline are the best.  Glad to see Jeffrey Charles return, but kind of wish he'd be more broken up over Aunt Agatha. They were each other's support for most of his life.

Finally, a sensible Ross. That guy has been missing for awhile. So, Valentine, the gift that keeps on giving. Nodorothyparker's paternity bomb just went off. I like how Ross and Elizabeth sussed it out that it was Aunt Agatha who spilled the beans.  Good luck, Elizabeth, trying to get George abed for the next child.  Prudie needs to mind her own damn business. She's quietly encouraging Demelza to cheat on Ross and spying on him to boot. Everyone laid their cards on the table.  Armitage is still an ass and growing to be more of a jerk every day. At least Ross knows what his game is now and Caroline and Dwight see right through him. It's a wonder neither of them are saying anything to Ross or Demelza. I was VERY surprised that Ross and Demelza had an adult conversation and that both were matter of fact about the potential for a tryst. If only Ross had ACTUALLY said what he was thinking about Demelza having changed him and the ghost of his love for Elizabeth. Ross, sometimes you speak when you shouldn't and are quiet when you should speak. 

@NorthstarATL, I hadn't thought about Geoffrey Charles' omission of the loss of Aunt Agatha. You're right, he should have said something. Debbie Horsfield dropped the ball on that one. Oh, I forgot to add, Elizabeth was very astute to realize that by leaving Morwenna in the company of Geoffrey Charles, he might lift her spirits. Very well done Elizabeth. There's hope for you yet.

That swine's exclamation and surprise that Morwenna survived was repellent. I have no clue what Rowella is doing. At first I thought she was trying to divert Slug-Worth's attention away from her clearly despondent sister (suicidal?) but now I suspect she wants the slug for herself.  I hope she gets what she wants, in that case.

Elizabeth was actually very smart in this episode. She owned up to the possibility that Valentine could be Ross' child and finally made him realize what Demelza was hinting at all this time. Valentine is clearly Ross' child with that dark curly hair. Elizabeth was also very clear to the slug that if he didn't call Dr. Enys, SHE would.  Could Elizabeth be finally coming out of her drug-induced daze? Did she take any Laudanum in this episode or was the lack of George in her life enough of a high?

Edited July 31, 2017 by Jacks-Son

[Nash]

Funnily we were just discussing Rowella - I think that she is trying to distract Whitworth from Morwenna but is ALSO playing her own game. She clearly thinks she can handle him on her terms; good luck with that.

I like GC; he's well played and it'd be good to see the character grow up and do his stuff (spoiler avoided) but that means we'd be into the 2nd generation books so perhaps not eh? 

Yes, Ross should have said that out loud to Demelza but I'd not have bet on it going down well; don't know why - you think it'd work but it's TV land so who knows? The BBC certainty used the "I still love her" quote in the trailer. Ah, maskirova! 

[LiveenLetLive]

I really liked this episode, but the actor who is playing Armitage is bugging the merde out of me--he is a pretty boy with the emphasis on "boy," even though Demelza is the same age she has been married to a proper man for several years, would she really be tempted by this kid? I understand that Ross is ignoring her but still....

[Jacks-Son]

5 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

I understand that Ross is ignoring her but still....

See this is where I'm confused. Ross isn't really ignoring her. They walked arm in arm through the street and seemed very happy together. At home, with Jeremy in his arms asleep and Demelza with Garrick beside her, they looked like a very comfortable couple. Sure, Ross isn't paying attention to her like Armitage does, but what person wants that constant attention. Give her a break. Let her breathe. Does Armitage have any shit to do??? There's no way Prudie should have let him in the house with nobody there. I don't want to come home and find some suiter sitting there waiting for me. It's creepy.

[Nash]

8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

See this is where I'm confused. Ross isn't really ignoring her. They walked arm in arm through the street and seemed very happy together. At home, with Jeremy in his arms asleep and Demelza with Garrick beside her, they looked like a very comfortable couple. Sure, Ross isn't paying attention to her like Armitage does, but what person wants that constant attention. Give her a break. Let her breathe. Does Armitage have any shit to do??? There's no way Prudie should have let him in the house with nobody there. I don't want to come home and find some suiter sitting there waiting for me. It's creepy.

So you amble over to Nampara and ask if Mistress Poldark is at home - no, you're told, she's in Truro/picking bluebells/smuggling grain but will be back shortly. Oh, you say, I have this book of poetry/watercolour/thing for her, may I wait. As you're a gentleman you're let in, given a cup of tea and parked in a chair pending the arrival of the lady of the house. That's how a gentleman would manage it - the warning would be if you were told she "might be some time" in which case you'd leave your card and bail out sharpish keeping a weather eye open for large dogs and angry looking husbands. As it's Nampara, Prudie would let you in even if you were the Citizen Commissioner of Public Safety with a portable guillotine under your arm. 

[Jacks-Son]

4 minutes ago, Nash said:

As it's Nampara, Prudie would let you in even if you were the Citizen Commissioner of Public Safety with a portable guillotine under your arm. 

LOL, Prudie would.  She just wants to start some shit, that's why she let him in. Never mind Jeremy and how it would affect the house if the lady of the house is alone with an unmarried man.  Prudie has reverted to thinking of Demelza as a kitchen help, not Lady of the house.  However, Hugh is borderline stalking at this point.  Demelza was rather shocked to see him there.

[Nash]

I'm not sure if it's a bit harsh calling HA a stalker. This is a 1790s story, written in 1940/50s (say) now being viewed in 2017. That is a lot of lense to look through. 

In 1795, if you were a fashionable young officer or gentleman, one of your main entertainments was visiting houses where you had been introduced to the Lady (and any eligible daughters). This could be innocent or not and a steady drip of scandal suggests that morality wasn't what we'd expect (the outward primness of the Victorian era was a reaction against the more openly flexible Regency). So even if HA wasn't a lovestruck young wannabe poet, he'd probably be calling around anyway - to a certain mind, Demelza's common background would be suggestive of an open boudoir door. If she had a boudoir. 

HA's mistake is that he's OBVIOUS about this and risks scaring the horses. That's the problem for the 1790s, he is not being discrete. If this was set in Bath or London, you'd not be able to open the front door without a young toff or Guards officers swanning in to say good morning. 

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

A few posts have been removed because as per the pinned spoiler policy; book talk should be confined to topics which have the 'Book Talk' tag. 

[nodorothyparker]

Elizabeth came off a lot better in this episode than she has for much of this season.  She's aware enough that Morwenna really isn't well to rightly pull rank on Whitworth to try to get her some help, she's more engaged with her children, and she manages to have a very adult conversation with Ross without a lot of helpless dithering or encouragement that won't lead anywhere good.  But just as in last season, she's still acting like there was ever a real possibility that Ross could have come to her after That Night and upset the order of everything, which at least Ross here acknowledges was realistically Not. Going. To. Happen.  Unfortunately Ross couldn't follow through and have the subsequent conversation he should have been having with Demelza and again played the too distracted to bother husband until the end when he finally did buy a clue that all of Hugh's assurances that he will behave as a gentleman  and Demelza's that she knows her place as the dutiful wife may not cut it.

I know they've shown Prudie ogling the young men, including Demelza's brothers, this season for her own amusement so her remarking on what a pretty young thing Hugh is is in character with that, but WTH is she doing encouraging Demelza in it?  Does she not remember how shitty things got for everyone last season when Demelza and Ross were on the outs?  Ross is still her master and legally has the upper hand in everything that happens in that house.   For all the "Ross is a self-absorbed thoughtless jerk" the show keeps cycling back around to again and again, they rely awfully heavily on Ross not being that jerk when it actually counts.  I know Hugh fancies himself a romantic and "just can't help it" but if you continually have to protest to yourself that you shouldn't be pursuing the wife of the man who saved your life when he didn't know you from Adam and didn't have to, then don't do it.  Walk away.  That would be the honorable thing to do.  It feels like the show is trying very hard to sell this unpalatable storyline but it just isn't landing, probably in part for those reasons and in part because Hugh looks like a barely legal boy band member rather than someone no-nonsense Demelza would realistically take seriously.

Whitworth continues to be gross on every level with his palpable disappointment that Morwenna survived childbirth and demanding "my rights" both five minutes before and after.  Dwight looked like he wanted to be anywhere else but there in those scenes.   To my surprise, George is actually really selling me on his pain and suspicion.

[LiveenLetLive]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

t feels like the show is trying very hard to sell this unpalatable storyline but it just isn't landing, probably in part for those reasons and in part because Hugh looks like a barely legal boy band member rather than someone no-nonsense Demelza would realistically take seriously.

My feeling exactly about this storyline--that the character was miscast (and the casting is in general pretty strong, even the slight, almost fragile, Farthing is selling me on George)

As for Whitworth the actor is having a field day with that part and he couldn't be any more loathsome, LOL.  I also agree about George--his character veers between mustache twirling villain, and simply pathetic with his nose pressed at the window of the Mansion house with all of his betters inside.

[Nash]

Yes George is the villain; no doubt. That said, I have some nagging sympathy for him; his family has dragged itself up by sheer hard work (far harder than Francis has encountered) and he has worked hard to achieve social skills to suit his station. At school he may have simply wanted to be accepted and took any hint of rejection or horseplay to heart. Yes, Is implacable in his desire to do better than Ross and bring him low. He has a veneer, inside he's a fury of resentment and why the hell not? He is far more able than many of the old moneyed relics. As for his love for Elizabeth - if the Chynoweths had had an ounce of sense they'd have spotted that this rich, capable, quite charming member of the nouveau riche could give them security and access and that he actually loved her. That's a better deal than either Poldark. Being fools and old money, they didn't. 

 

George is a villain and quite arguably damned but though I dislike him, I've stood with my nose against that window too. He's a good man lost and that's not pathos, that's tragic. 

[Neurochick]

George is a useless douche.  And resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for someone else to die.

[dubbel zout]

On 8/2/2017 at 5:15 PM, Nash said:

he has worked hard to achieve social skills to suit his station.

Those need more work, IMO. He's a bull in a china shop a lot of the time, not knowing how to pick his moments. And it doesn't help that every conversation and action is about how to further his ambition. How about asking about the family first, George? The niceties are lost are him for the most part.

On 8/2/2017 at 5:15 PM, Nash said:

As for his love for Elizabeth - if the Chynoweths had had an ounce of sense they'd have spotted that this rich, capable, quite charming member of the nouveau riche could give them security and access and that he actually loved her.

One of Elizabeth's big attractions for George is that she was interested in Ross, but George was able to marry her. He loves her because he could one-up Ross, which is one of his life's great joys. Elizabeth married him because she couldn't marry Ross, and she desperately needed the financial stability George could provide. It really was more of a business arrangement, as many marriages were back then. If Elizabeth truly loved George, I don't think she'd need to be chugging laudanum.

[rebecca dewinter]

George does a lot of terrible things on the show but in the Valentine situation, he's the one who was wronged so I feel a little bit sorry for him. Although his general attitude toward the kid is gross and he clearly just thinks of kids as heirs, I can't really fault the guy for being distant after finding out not only that the kid is possibly not his but was probably fathered by his mortal enemy. Elizabeth was technically engaged to George when she and Ross banged, so George has every right to feel betrayed by this. And now Ross and Elizabeth plotting together to throw George off their scent .. lol. 

Of course, being wronged in one area of life doesn't excuse being horrible in every other way. 

[LJones41]

Quote

 

I'm not sure if it's a bit harsh calling HA a stalker. This is a 1790s story, written in 1940/50s (say) now being viewed in 2017. That is a lot of lense to look through. 

 

Actually, the novel was written and published in the 1970s.

 

Quote

George does a lot of terrible things on the show but in the Valentine situation, he's the one who was wronged so I feel a little bit sorry for him. 

If Elizabeth had told him the truth about Valentine's parentage and how Ross had forced himself inside Trenwith that night, chances are he would have treated both her and Valentine rather badly from the beginning.  In fact, I suspect that he would have believed that Ross and Elizabeth had been conducting an affair for years.  Considering society's penchant for blaming the victims of sexual assault (which maintains to this day), I'm not really surprised that Elizabeth kept Valentine's true parentage a secret.  If it had happened to another woman, she would have done the same.

 

 

Quote

Elizabeth married him because she couldn't marry Ross, and she desperately needed the financial stability George could provide. It really was more of a business arrangement, as many marriages were back then. If Elizabeth truly loved George, I don't think she'd need to be chugging laudanum.

 

Elizabeth had married George because he was rich and he would have been able to help her save Trenwith for Geoffrey Charles  And she does like him, despite his flaws.  As for the laudanum, this scenario is nothing more than a heavy-handed creation of Debbie Horsfield's to infuse more drama - something that was never required in the first place.  Her handling of Elizabeth in this season was pretty far-fetched and badly handled. 

[rebecca dewinter]

Well, yes George is piece of shit so of course he wouldn't be understanding. He literally treats everyone like garbage so there's no reason to think he'd be nice about it. Plus it's not like he won't remember the fact that Elizabeth randomly delayed their wedding by a month, even if she blamed Ross entirely for the incident, she still ultimately chose George only because Ross didn't leave his family for her. Not great for George! 

But it's not a requirement that a man just has to suck it up and raise a child that isn't his. He has a right to be ambivalent about the deception. Elizabeth is totally pulling a fast one over him and now Ross is in on the deception too. lol I mean George is trash but I gotta feel a little sympathy for him there. 

[dubbel zout]

If George were interested in the long game (which of course he isn't), he wouldn't care that Valentine is Ross's son; indeed, George would rub it in that he's raising a Poldark as his own, and Ross can't do a damn thing but suck it up.

[rebecca dewinter]

21 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

If George were interested in the long game (which of course he isn't), he wouldn't care that Valentine is Ross's son; indeed, George would rub it in that he's raising a Poldark as his own, and Ross can't do a damn thing but suck it up.

I feel like most men would not see that as a win lol. Evolutionary instinct basically says the worst case scenario is having to use your own resources into raising a child that isn't yours. Especially to a guy like George who won't stop harping about the "Warleggan heir" and this kid is clearly going to look more and more like Ross as he gets older.

[dubbel zout]

Oh, I know George doesn't have the right personality for that. But if he did, that sort of revenge would be rather exquisite.

Edited November 10, 2017 by dubbel zout

[Popples]

Vicar meat sweats is so nauseatingly repulsive. It might be possible that I could end up hating him more than George. Does Morwella really want him?

I wish Geoffrey Charles had mentioned Aunt Agatha's passing.

[HoodlumSheep]

I've been in mourning for Nana Poldark all week. I miss her dearly :(. She was quite literally the only character i've been rooting for since the beginning. All I have left now is Geoffrey Charles. And verity when she pops in on occassion. Kinda wish Jeffy boy would continue the witchcraft in her honor. Any chance of him playing with voodoo dolls with elizabeth in front of that fire while eating those cakes? 

Whitworth.....uuurggghhh and Morwenna's sister...uurggghh here i thought that she was maybe doing it on purpose to somehow help ruin the marriage so morwenna could somehow split from him...somehow...but nope. :/ doesn't look like that anymore.

Elizabeth and ross acted like adults this episode! I liked their scene at the church. And then i proceeded to almost rip my hair out after that ross confession scene to demelza turned out to be fake. Uuuuuuggghhhhhh why???

I despise this demelza storyline. Not only is it a rehash of her storyline last season with that one officer, but here she's giggling and googly-eyeing like a schoolgirl with that teenage-looking poet artist wannabe. I don't want her to stoop to ross' level with cheating. Even dwight and caroline have caught on and are probably silently judging you. I pray that they never get tangled in a dumb infidelity plotline. And uurrghhh Prudie. I'm not fond of her egging Demelza on. 

Bby Val is so cute. Don't be distant george :( like, i get it. For once your dramatics are kinda warranted in this situation, but still :(.

Lots of uuurggghhhhhhhs and uuughhhs and icks this episode. And the entire season, really. Not my favorite.

In all honesty, even though ross' character has long since fallen from grace, he's the one i've been the least frustrated with this season. The man just wants to settle down and have a quiet life for once, but no. He has to deal with the war stuff, the george vs the town stuff, now the dumb demelza/wannabe lovesick poet *and* people are trying to shove him into a position of power he clearly doesn't want and feels unfit for. He just wants a simple life and i find it kinda relatable. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

. And uurrghhh Prudie. I'm not fond of her egging Demelza on. 

I hated that.  Prudy isn't a silly  BFF in a modern sit-com, she's a mother figure for Demelza and a practical woman of her period, so I find it hard to believe she would encourage Demelza to jeopardize her marriage for any reason.  I know it was Jud who always said it, but  Prudie would always agree about what was  not fittin', not right.

 

8 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Elizabeth and ross acted like adults this episode! I liked their scene at the church. And then i proceeded to almost rip my hair out after that ross confession scene to demelza turned out to be fake.

 Oh, is that what happened?  I thought maybe a few minutes had been cut out.  What a mess!

The first season was such a beautiful love story and since then it's been a long story of a struggling marriage and I'm starting to see why so many great novels end with the wedding.  I'm glad we never had to see Jane Eyre getting fed up with Rochester's  self-centered behavior or Elizabeth dealing with Darcy's natural coldness.  If Tess and Angel had escaped the law would he have ever trusted her around other men?  I don't even want to think about Heathcliff's controlling jealousy.

Edited November 13, 2017 by JudyObscure

[SongbirdHollow]

Ross is practically daring Demelza to sleep with Hugh. That line about "I'm not worried about any callers but Hugh....Bodrugan!"

Of course no one should cheat on their spouse, but I spent most of the episode yelling "F--- you, Ross!" while my husband shouted "She's MARRIED!" about Demelza so it was a fun night.

[TVForever]

Will Ross NEVER learn? He keeps turning down opportunities offered, KNOWING full well that George is scheming to fill the gap, and then is shocked(!) when George does in fact, benefit. And the people around him suffer even more. Both men are full of pride and arrogance-I'm starting to wonder whose is more dangerous.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Why does this show want me to hate Demelza? WHY??? If this had been my first season watching, I would be thinking that Demelza married Ross out of...necessity and not love (though it was both, but the important thing was she was already in love with him), the way she was mooning over that drawing Armitage did of her. And then making Googly/Flirting eyes at him. UGH. BLECH. And if that song she was singing wasn't aimed at his ass himself, then I'll eat my hat. And that conversation she and Ross had later? That she wants to explore cheating on him to fulfill...what? A need that Ross is no longer capable of giving her? I'm at a loss as to why the show is doing this to them.

And add me to the list of those who cried FOUL! when it turned out Ross's confession to Demelza about kissing Elizabeth, and how she's a past love, hasn't changed, but he has, all due to her (Demelza), was a fakarooni.

And Prudie can fall off the next cliff.

If Valentine's hair was a rich black mass of waves and curls, I could maaaaybeee think he was Ross's child. But his hair color is a near exact match to his mother's. 

Whitworth is an abusive pig and if he dies next week, I'll not be mourning him. As for Rowenna, I think she's helping her sister out. She knows it's dangerous for her to have any "marital" relations and that Pig, Osborne is raping her, because needs must or whatever bullshit. I'm not getting any scheming vibe from her.

A very lack luster season for me. Primarily because of the confusing and doesn't make sense of the marital strife between Ross and Demelza.

[rebecca dewinter]

Valentine is definitely Ross's child. lol. I don't think the show could be telegraphing this more obviously. Not to mentions, kids tend to grow much darker as they get older.

Spoiler

And correct me if I'm wrong, but in the books it becomes more clear as he gets older.

I guess I could understand Demelza's dilemma had they not made Hugh into such a ridiculous lovesick puppy who has no real emotional depth beyond clichéd pick up lines. I mean, some people find that attractive but I just find it annoying like get a life! Come back when you finish college, kid. Maybe it's just something that's helping restore her pride after Ross's infidelity last season. After years of fearing she was Ross's second choice, now at least she gets to be someone's first choice even if that someone is a bit silly.

Personally, I never saw Ross/Demelza as some big epic romance. I think it just came out of familiarity and in some ways convenience and it did develop into love but it never felt like a "Love Story", which is why I was taken aback at how Demelza was so aghast at the idea of being "second best" last season (like umm, didn't you kind of know that when you married him???). So I'm not at all surprised they're continuing to have loads of marital issues.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, rebecca dewinter said:

Maybe it's just something that's helping restore her pride after Ross's infidelity last season.

Last season for us, but at least two years have gone by, no? And she had her chance to restore her pride or get back at him when she went to that party and then changed her mind and escaped out the window. I haven't read the book and I didn't click on the spoiler tags, as I don't want to know what happened in the books, as that will influence my watching. I'm just basing everything on what I'm being shown. And I'm really not liking the direction the show is taking Ross and Demelza.

[rebecca dewinter]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Last season for us, but at least two years have gone by, no? And she had her chance to restore her pride or get back at him when she went to that party and then changed her mind and escaped out the window. I haven't read the book and I didn't click on the spoiler tags, as I don't want to know what happened in the books, as that will influence my watching. I'm just basing everything on what I'm being shown. And I'm really not liking the direction the show is taking Ross and Demelza.

Yeah, she has moved on from it, but you can never really forget that feeling. And while Captain McNeil was there last season, he wasn't exactly wooing her, he basically just said I'm here for the sex that's all! I think Demelza is a woman who felt more betrayed by the fact that Ross cheated with a woman he loved for 10 years, and she probably would've reacted differently had he just banged that hooker friend of his from Season 1. At the end of the day, the romantic wooing is something she never got from Ross. When he married her, he didn't even love her although she loved him. And while he did eventually fall in love with her months into the marriage, she always had to contend with Elizabeth, knowing that Ross probably would always see her as his greatest love. At a certain point, a girl's just had enough.

Edited November 13, 2017 by rebecca dewinter

[Driad]

AIUI, at this time “marriage to deceased wife’s sister” was illegal but the law was generally not enforced unless a relative objected.  So if Morwenna had died and Rowella wanted to marry Whitworth (yecch) they might have been able to, as long as M & R’s mother was OK with it.

[JudyObscure]

Ross and Demelza really were an epic love story for me. 

I thought Demelza fell in love With Ross almost from the moment he saved her and her dog.  She had grown up with nothing but abuse from her father and had never really received kindness from a man, add in Ross's looks and commanding presense and I think she was head over heals in love before the first week had passed.  Once Ross finally "saw," her as a desirable woman and not just an odd little servant girl, I think he fell very quickly in love, too.  I don't think he would have married her if he hadn't loved her.  She was on her way home and made it clear she wasn't going to be a servant with benefits; he could have just shrugged it off then and said to himself that no real harm had been done. Instead he proposed, knowing his set would be scandalized, all for love of her. 

I could take his one night with Elizabeth and still believe that he loved Demelza.  But my understanding of Demelza's character just does not fit with unfaithfulness. I always saw her as a woman who is, at heart, as loyal and devoted to her man as her kindred spirit, the dog,

[GHScorpiosRule]

52 minutes ago, rebecca dewinter said:

At a certain point, a girl's just had enough.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Ross and Demelza, because Ross had that one lapse, but the show, what it is doing, is making it look like Ross has continually cheated on Demelza, and doesn't love her, when that's not the case at all. Because they have shown me, this season, moments when they are happy, loving, only to then give me whiplash and show me that Demelza, out of the blue, is discontent. And then the line last night about, yes, she loves him, but at the same time, wants to be someone else, who can kiss another man, and feel like she used to? And that it is her hope, she'll look and feel about Ross like she used to and is now looking at Armitage? The fuck?

6 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Ross and Demelza really were an epic love story for me. 

I thought Demelza fell in love With Ross almost from the moment he saved her and her dog.  She had grown up with nothing but abuse from her father and had never really received kindness from a man, add in Ross's looks and commanding presense and I think she was head over heals in love before the first week had passed.  Once Ross finally "saw," her as a desirable woman and not just an odd little servant girl, I think he fell very quickly in love, too.  I don't think he would have married her if he hadn't loved her.  She was on her way home and made it clear she wasn't going to be a servant with benefits; he could have just shrugged it off then and said to himself that no real harm had been done. Instead he proposed, knowing his set would be scandalized, all for love of her. 

I could take his one night with Elizabeth and still believe that he loved Demelza.  But my understanding of Demelza's character just does not fit with unfaithfulness. I always saw her as a woman who is, at heart, as loyal and devoted to her man as her kindred spirit, the dog,

ALL OF THIS.

[rebecca dewinter]

I agree they're doing a terrible job of presenting Hugh as a viable temptation here. Not only because in that era, a wife would be punished severely for any infidelity but it just doesn't seem like this dude has any purpose or character arc in this show other than to be a wedge between Ross and Demelza. The conversation at the end of the episode felt like Demelza was playing on Ross's guilt over Elizabeth to let her have a freebie, which is super out of character for her, but whatever. This side show never made much sense to me.

[magdalene]

I personally won't dislike Demelza for having an affair.  I have always liked her much better than Ross and I stopped believing in their "epic" love when Ross had sex with Elisabeth.

I also find it to be a double standard to wave off Ross' adultery but when Demelza does it it's all of the sudden unforgivable.

Edited November 14, 2017 by magdalene

[rebecca dewinter]

Yeah, I wouldn't blame Demelza for having enough of Ross and his Elizabeth fixation. To me his scene with Elizabeth in the church felt more genuine and loving than his interactions with Demelza have in a while. Maybe it's just how the actors played it though.

[izabella]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And add me to the list of those who cried FOUL! when it turned out Ross's confession to Demelza about kissing Elizabeth, and how she's a past love, hasn't changed, but he has, all due to her (Demelza), was a fakarooni.

I was annoyed too, and even more annoyed by Ross immediately after when he snapped out of his imaginary conversation and was all brooding and gruff with Demelza.  He's been treating her like shit a lot this season, mean, moody, grumpy and then he goes and kisses Elizabeth again.  Past, schmast, he shouldn't be kissing anyone, least of all Elizabeth with whom he has an extra-marital baby.  It isn't surprising to me that Demelza would have her head turned by someone wooing her when she gets the cold treatment from Ross on the regular.

[ComeWhatMay]

I continue to be impressed by Farthing. For all of George's behavior & my sympathy for the untenable position Elizabeth found herself in thanks to Ross, I feel for George after Valentine in the scenario. Ross' "goodbye kisses" all over Elizabeth's face were all kinds of inappropriate. I imagine Ross in the George position with Demelza & Hugh & its not pretty.

George is a cuckold; the unwanted child of his worst enemy bears his name. Ice & avoidance is preferable to what George could have been doing to Elizabeth or Valentine this episode & Elizabeth knows it as does Ross. Seems to me Elizabeth was off the stuff -- her moments with Geoffrey Charles & stepping up hard, albeit very late, for Morwenna with Morwenna's odious husband. Elizabeth knew she needed to have her wits about her, I think, as the jig is up. I appreciated Elizabeth's bluntness with Ross in the church. There's no Maury Povich on DNA Test Day to say, "George, you are not the father," but I think we come away from that conversation knowing we don't need Maury for this one anyway.

FWIW, I know George should have shucked the toads out of his pants & kept moving & set on another girl. He didn't, though, & it struck me that Ross wanted to save Elizabeth's marriage for Valentine (Ross has no intention of being a father to Valentine after all), but Elizabeth seemed to want to save it for Elizabeth.     

Caroline clocks everything -- I love her.

[ScoobieDoobs]

15 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Ross and Demelza really were an epic love story for me. 

I thought Demelza fell in love With Ross almost from the moment he saved her and her dog.  She had grown up with nothing but abuse from her father and had never really received kindness from a man, add in Ross's looks and commanding presense and I think she was head over heals in love before the first week had passed.  Once Ross finally "saw," her as a desirable woman and not just an odd little servant girl, I think he fell very quickly in love, too.  I don't think he would have married her if he hadn't loved her.  She was on her way home and made it clear she wasn't going to be a servant with benefits; he could have just shrugged it off then and said to himself that no real harm had been done. Instead he proposed, knowing his set would be scandalized, all for love of her. 

I could take his one night with Elizabeth and still believe that he loved Demelza.  But my understanding of Demelza's character just does not fit with unfaithfulness. I always saw her as a woman who is, at heart, as loyal and devoted to her man as her kindred spirit, the dog,

WTH was with her speech to Ross?  Er, about wanting to be 2 people -- one, the caring/loving wife & mother, and another one, the woman who will carry on with whatever man comes along (OK, I know she didn't say it quite that way).  Still . . . uh, what the what was up with this crap?  Ross does not seem to be treating her so badly (to me).  We (and Dwight) are witnessing what horrible treatment of a wife by a husband is.  OK, so Ross is distracted & ignoring her & he's cranky & moody.  But they do have their moments where they seem quite happy as a couple & family.  So I'm not getting her motivation to carry on an affair.  It seems out of synch with her character & her values -- as well as with the times.

And Prudie can STHU.  I like her, but joking to your boss about having a fling is a bit much.

16 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If Valentine's hair was a rich black mass of waves and curls, I could maaaaybeee think he was Ross's child. But his hair color is a near exact match to his mother's. 

Yeah, it's kinda not that obvious that baby Valentine's hair color is the same as Ross's.

Hey, Sir Francis with the bad wig, you picked this dick to stand with, so now you gotta deal with the consequences. 

I'm completely confused by Rowella.  Is she helping her sis -- or is she tempting Ossie for her own purposes?  Her efforts to tempt him are making me nauseous.

Edited November 14, 2017 by ScoobieDoobs

[Jacks-Son]

4 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

WTH was with her speech to Ross?  Er, about wanting to be 2 people -- one, the caring/loving wife & mother, and another one, the woman who will carry on with whatever man comes along (OK, I know she didn't say it quite that way).  Still . . . uh, what the what was up with this crap?  Ross does not seem to be treating her so badly (to me).  We (and Dwight) are witnessing what horrible treatment of a wife by a husband is.  OK, so Ross is distracted & ignoring her & he's cranky & moody.  But they do have their moments where they seem quite happy as a couple & family.  So I'm not getting her motivation to carry on an affair.  It seems out of synch with her character & her values -- as well as with the times.

And Prudie can STHU.  I like her, but joking to your boss about having a fling is a bit much.

All of this. I didn't think Ross was ignoring Demelza, I just thought he wasn't paying as much attention to her as the asshole was. Seriously, who wants that kind of obsessive attention?

4 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

And Prudie can STHU.  I like her, but joking to your boss about having a fling is a bit much.

Definitely tell Prudie to STFU (Not STHU). Prudie should mind her own damn business and not encourage Demelza to have an affair with the young punk.

[rebecca dewinter]

Often times, I feel like Demelza is a woman from 2017 who accidentally time traveled to the 1780s a la Outlander. She feels terribly out of sync with the period. In terms of 18th century marriages, she literally hit the jackpot considering where she came from and how few rights women had in those days. I feel like she is looking at her marriage from a 21st century perspective and it throws me off on this show.

Edited November 14, 2017 by rebecca dewinter

[nodorothyparker]

I've often said the show's version of Demelza goes past strong or spunky or whatever adjective you want to put there to be anachronistically modern.  Her go go girl power speech from last season about being strong and true and oh, she'll be all Mary Tyler Moore to make it after all on her own in intending to leave Ross just kills me. 

The show's version of events up to now clearly wants us to see Ross taking her for granted and being distracted and off being sometimes heroic sometimes foolhardy Ross and not taking this threat seriously at all until it's too late.  And to be fair, they've been married long enough by now that some of the bloom is certainly off the rose for her where Ross is concerned.  She's no longer that starving abused teenager who regarded him as little short of a hero in everything and was just grateful to have him.  They've been through the death of a child, an affair, near poverty, and all sorts of calamity where she's had time to learn that going into the marriage knowing she was a second choice and living it were maybe two different things and isn't it lovely to be someone's first choice for once and treated as an equal right out of the gate?  The problem is they're selling it on the back of Prudie out of the blue encouraging adultery for reasons? and Demelza risking everything for a fairly insubstantial character who looks like a barely legal boy band member.

[rebecca dewinter]

Her speech last season about going back to her father was WTF, I was like gurrrrl do you remember your father???? I think I'd rather stay with a cheating husband who left me alone and didn't beat me/assert his legal rights to my bed than the dad who whipped me every day and now won't stop talking about Jesus.

Edited November 14, 2017 by rebecca dewinter

[nodorothyparker]

Exactly.  Plus as a married woman at the time, she would have had no rights to anything, including taking their son with her out of that house.  Unless, you know, she was counting on Ross to be fairly progressive and not quite the ogre she was making him out to be.

[rebecca dewinter]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Exactly.  Plus as a married woman at the time, she would have had no rights to anything, including taking their son with her out of that house.  Unless, you know, she was counting on Ross to be fairly progressive and not quite the ogre she was making him out to be.

Granted I feel like everyone last season was acting like divorce was an actual possibility for them. When Elizabeth's all like "what are we gonna do" to Ross, I was like ummm nothing? Cause there's nothing you CAN do without ruining your life, Geoffrey Charle's future and just basically being viewed as societal demons.

[nodorothyparker]

That was a huge failure of the show writing that I wasn't happy with at the time either.  Because in this era, it took a considerable amount of money that nobody had and an act of freaking Parliament to make a divorce happen.  Yet there was Elizabeth and Agatha scheming about Ross finally doing right and coming home to live at Trenwith as if that ever could have happened and Ross telling Demelza they need to see how the whole mess plays out.  

It's admittedly been a couple of months since I've seen this episode, but from what I remember even in Ross and Elizabeth's finally meeting at the church this time out that she was still acting like she ever thought there was a possibility he could have done anything other go home and let her marry or not marry George as she chose.  At least Ross finally shut that down that nope, was never going to happen.  Not without destroying both families and likely making social pariahs of us all.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It's admittedly been a couple of months since I've seen this episode, but from what I remember even in Ross and Elizabeth's finally meeting at the church this time out that she was still acting like she ever thought there was a possibility he could have done anything other go home and let her marry or not marry George as she chose.  At least Ross finally shut that down that nope, was never going to happen.  Not without destroying both families and likely making social pariahs of us all.

Yes, she made it sound like it was Ross's fault that she ended up being married to George. As if he could have prevented it had he come up to scratch, or something like that. I was glad he shut that down. But then he had to go kiss her all over her face before saying good-bye. UGH.

[nodorothyparker]

Eh, IIRC it was more of a we share this long history and we've made peace with it and where we are now kind of thing than anything passionate.  In all fairness, Ross couldn't know that Prudie was lurking about and would interpret it differently and run with it.

[rebecca dewinter]

37 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Eh, IIRC it was more of a we share this long history and we've made peace with it and where we are now kind of thing than anything passionate.  In all fairness, Ross couldn't know that Prudie was lurking about and would interpret it differently and run with it.

I feel like it's the actor's fault for making googly eyes at each other still in that scene.

[GHScorpiosRule]

27 minutes ago, rebecca dewinter said:

I feel like it's the actor's fault for making googly eyes at each other still in that scene.

It seems both my period shows are rorschach tests this season! Because it didn't look like Ross was making Googly or Cow eyes at Elizabeth.