S07.E02: Stormborn

[WindyNights]

On 7/26/2017 at 0:56 PM, Tikichick said:

I think you've hit upon another reason some of the storylines have been diverted in different directions for the show -- the actors bring a new dimension that make audience and producers latch onto characters who weren't such huge standouts or tremendously popular on the page.

Show Tywin benefited from this IMO.  I honestly wonder about Show Cersei to a certain extent as well. 

Ironically I think the producers were probably quite disappointed there was no real possibility of keeping Oberyn on the show longer, but I'm sure if they could have, they would have altered the story to keep him onscreen as long as possible.

I consider this a big mistake when the reception of a character dictates screentime. If you have a story with a character then tell it but don't over-indulge.

 

i had huge problems with Tywin and Cersei in the show because of this. The High Sparrow too. There was a lot of wheel spinning scenes so we could see Lena Headey, Charles Dance and Jonathan Pryce act.

6 hours ago, Wouter said:

In the book, the dragons instantly liked Brown Ben Plumm (sellsword with a few drops of Targ blood) so it seems like they can somehow "smell" Targaryen/Valyrian blood.

They also fried Quentyn despite his dragonblood too though. 

 

Now it could be that you need to be patrilineally descended from a Targaryen/Valyrian or have a Targaryen as a mom for it to work though.

 

Like Brown Ben Plumm is is a direct agnatic descendant of Aegon IV but Quentyn descends from Daenerys Targaryen  through many muddled generations.

[Shimmergloom]

9 hours ago, GrailKing said:

To Sansa and Arya, if any wolf growls  by your side kill the threat.

The problem with no Ghost I think is that Ghost should have been warning Jon and Sansa left and right about Littlefinger by now.

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, Shimmergloom said:

The problem with no Ghost I think is that Ghost should have been warning Jon and Sansa left and right about Littlefinger by now.

There is one guarantee they Don't need Ghost for that, LF's not a hidden threat to them., I'm talking unknown people.

Tyrion,Sansa,Arya, Brieene,Pod,Bran,Jon,Royce, Olena,Cersei ( well she thinks he's a powerless brothel owner ) know

Edited July 28, 2017 by GrailKing
Added Brieene and Pod.

[Oscirus]

I love  that they make this big deal out of the prince that was promised being a genderless saying then they kill any momentum towards that by clearly making Mellisandre avoid Dany's question about the prophecy referring to her.

[Bill1978]

Finally caught up with this week's episode and I thought it was a massive improvement from the season premiere. This week's episode had plenty of links between all the different stories, whereas last week's ep I felt every story was separate so it was like I was watching 6 different shows.

Most of what I've been thinking has been said already. But the 2 things that still stand out for me, is that I am glad that the writers didn't make Sam say the obvious when he was asked what poetic title he would name the book. But for it to be a little nod than an obvious nod. The other thing, I really don't want Dany on the Throne. I want her to knock Cersei off the throne, but not to actually have it. Her sense of entitlement annoys me. Her right to the throne was lost when Robert won the war. I don't mind if she gets the throne cause she wins a war, but this whole idea that everybody in the 7 Kingdoms should blindly follow her because of her ancestry annoys me. I have a similar issue when I'm reading about the Wars of the Roses and Margaret Beaufort's views about her son's entitlement. I accept Henry VII's right to the throne cause he won the battle, but the push from his mother (well mainly in the terrible fiction books by P. Gregory) annoys me to no end, and I'm seeing the same annoyance appearing in Dany.

And a random question that may not be able to be answered, but what we are watching on screen is that likely to occur in the books? Or will the books be drastically different with the only thing they have in common is the ending? I haven't read the books (tried but got bored) so don't know how much or often the series diverted from the source material.

[anamika]

34 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

 The other thing, I really don't want Dany on the Throne. I want her to knock Cersei off the throne, but not to actually have it. Her sense of entitlement annoys me. Her right to the throne was lost when Robert won the war. I don't mind if she gets the throne cause she wins a war, but this whole idea that everybody in the 7 Kingdoms should blindly follow her because of her ancestry annoys me.

In which case, I am guessing that you would have been equally annoyed by the Starks sense of entitlement as well.  Their right to Winterfell was lost the minute the Lannisters and Boltons won the war of the five kings. The idea that the Northerners should blindly follow Jon and Sansa just because they are Starks should be equally annoying.

Every noble house in this story is entitled. They all demand blind loyalty because of their ancestry.  Dany is not a special case. It's baffling that she alone gets constantly gets singled out as being entitled. The only characters in the series that are not entitled would be the common folk, brothers at the wall, the maesters at the citadel, wildlings and characters like Sam, Gilly, Meera, Missandei, Hot Pie etc.

34 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

And a random question that may not be able to be answered, but what we are watching on screen is that likely to occur in the books? Or will the books be drastically different with the only thing they have in common is the ending? I haven't read the books (tried but got bored) so don't know how much or often the series diverted from the source material.

Since it is likely that we will not get another book in the series, we will most probably not know if the endings will be the same. There will be only one ending for this series - the one we get from the show. But the show has indeed diverted a lot from the books in many respects (Killed off many characters still alive in the books, ignored characters and plots in the books, replaced some characters with others etc.)  to narrow down the story. According to David and Dan:

Quote

We’re already well past the point of it jibing 100 percent. We’ve passed George and that’s something that George always worried about — the show catching up and ultimately passing him — but the good thing about us diverging at this point is that George’s books will still be a surprise for readers who have seen the show. Certain things that we learned from George way back in that meeting in Santa Fe are going to happen on the show, but certain things won’t. And there’s certain things where George didn’t know what was going to happen, so we’re going to find them out for the first time too, along with millions of readers when we read those books.

http://time.com/4791793/game-of-thrones-season-7-david-benioff-d-b-weiss/

Edited July 28, 2017 by anamika

[benteen]

As noted, hopefully the dragons can zigzag unlike Rickon Stark.

[Haleth]

17 hours ago, Wouter said:

In the book, the dragons instantly liked Brown Ben Plumm (sellsword with a few drops of Targ blood) so it seems like they can somehow "smell" Targaryen/Valyrian blood.

I was going to add that it didn't go so well for Quentyn but Windy Nights beat me to it.  Poor Prince Toast.  RIP

 

1 hour ago, Bill1978 said:

I haven't read the books (tried but got bored) so don't know how much or often the series diverted from the source material.

Quite a lot, especially as the show progressed.  But at least we will have an ending with the show, unlike the books (most likely).

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Every noble house in this story is entitled. They all demand blind loyalty because of their ancestry.  Dany is not a special case. It's baffling that she alone gets constantly gets singled out as being entitled. The only characters in the series that are not entitled would be the common folk, brothers at the wall, the maesters at the citadel, wildlings and characters like Sam, Gilly, Meera, Missandei, Hot Pie etc.

I don't think Jon ever felt entitled to his titles. He earned his rank with the Nights Watch and was proclaimed KITN because of his actions against the Boltons. And he's expressed several times that he neither wanted nor sought the title the Northern Lords foisted on him. If anything, Jon is the only one out of the bunch (Dany, Sansa, Cersi) who isn't claiming power by right of bloodline or might. He was more or less elected (with his bloodline being a pretty thin justification for giving him the power that the lords wanted him to have).

And Jon has never demanded absolute obedience from his followers. He reasons with them and argues his points, but he doesn't just order them. He explains his actions. Maybe too much, as it allows too much opportunity for disention (like having Sansa openly arguing with him when he's "holding court"), but it shows that he's in no way any kind of dictator. And while he has killed for insubordination before, it takes a lot to really push him to that point. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Hana Chan

[anamika]

51 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I don't think Jon ever felt entitled to his titles. He earned his rank with the Nights Watch and was proclaimed KITN because of his actions against the Boltons. And he's expressed several times that he neither wanted nor sought the title the Northern Lords foisted on him. If anything, Jon is the only one out of the bunch (Dany, Sansa, Cersi) who isn't claiming power by right of bloodline or might. He was more or less elected (with his bloodline being a pretty thin justification for giving him the power that the lords wanted him to have).

And Jon has never demanded absolute obedience from his followers. He reasons with them and argues his points, but he doesn't just order them. He explains his actions. Maybe too much, as it allows too much opportunity for disention (like having Sansa openly arguing with him when he's "holding court"), but it shows that he's in no way any kind of dictator. And while he has killed for insubordination before, it takes a lot to really push him to that point. 

Jon was proclaimed KITN because he had Ned Stark's blood running through his veins. Mormont paid him special attention at the wall and made him steward because he was Ned Stark's bastard. He is enjoying the benefits of being a Stark. He fought against the Boltons because he wanted Winterfell back.

I accept that he is a bit less rigid than the other nobles but that's because his experience with the Freefolk has changed his views about kings and kneelers. And he has the advantage of knowing what many of the other nobles don't - that there is an army of the dead marching south. That he knows this informs many of his decisions and he rightfully acknowledges that sitting on the throne means nothing if everyone ends up dead. He wants to protect his home.

Stannis was also all about winning the throne until he hears about the WW. As he says - I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.

Dany and the others don't know about this threat. They have not heard about it yet. Maybe when they do, they can be as reasonable as Jon Snow.

Edited July 28, 2017 by anamika

[Katsullivan]

57 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Every noble house in this story is entitled.

I don't think Jon ever felt entitled to his titles.

Jon is not a noble, which was @anamika's point.

57 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Jon is the only one out of the bunch (Dany, Sansa, Cersi) who isn't claiming power by right of bloodline or might.

Because Jon cannot claim power by right of bloodline, again because he's bastard-born. 

8 minutes ago, anamika said:

Stannis was also all about winning the throne until he hears about the WW. As he says - I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.

I really hope GRRM writes a better ending for Stannis in the books. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Katsullivan

[anamika]

10 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Jon is not a noble. Because Jon cannot claim power by right of bloodline, again because he's bastard-born.

True. Jon was raised without any expectations because he was a bastard. That's why he chooses the wall in the first place. Though he does act very snobby and entitled when he first goes to the wall. Donal Nye in the books and Tyrion on the show sets him straight about that.

12 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

I really hope GRRM writes a better ending for Stannis in the books. 

Sadly, I don't think we will ever read it.

[Tikichick]

7 minutes ago, anamika said:

True. Jon was raised without any expectations because he was a bastard. That's why he chooses the wall in the first place. Though he does act very snobby and entitled when he first goes to the wall. Donal Nye in the books and Tyrion on the show sets him straight about that.

Sadly, I don't think we will ever read it.

Snobby and entitled?  I didn't see it that way.  IMO he simply had a more idealistic outlook of how people should conduct themselves, more gentlemanly I guess, than many of the criminals or the lowborn brothers of the Night Watch he came across. 

[Hana Chan]

39 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon was proclaimed KITN because he had Ned Stark's blood running through his veins

I think that was the justification used in giving him the title - the fig leaf that bowed just enough to convention to make the traditionalists content. But if the bloodline was all that mattered, then Sansa would have had a stronger claim since she was - as far as anyone knows - the last surviving true born child of Ned Stark. And we saw all through season six that no one was rushing to Sansa's call as a Stark. She wasn't able to rally any aid on account of her bloodline (she got Littlefinger because he wants her sexually and because he thinks he can use her for his own power games). Recalling Jon's bloodline at his "coronation" was about giving him some measure of legitimacy when the Lords wanted him to be in charge. 

We're seeing Westeros society undergoing some really momentous changes. Many of the great houses have been totally decimated. We had an effort by the small folk to wrest power (with the Sparrows). The old hierarchy is falling apart at every turn. So a man thought to be a bastard being given leadership during a time of war on account of his talents and accomplishments isn't so far fetched.

12 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

IMO he simply had a more idealistic outlook of how people should conduct themselves, more gentlemanly I guess, than many of the criminals or the lowborn brothers of the Night Watch he came across. 

Jon did arrive at the wall with a bit of an attitude. He did look down on many of his brothers in the watch and had said outright to Tryion that he was better than they were when he felt that he wasn't given the recognition that he deserved. And  while he bemoaned his status as a bastard (and the title of Lord Snow that he was given, which was meant to mock him), he didn't recognize the privilege that he was raised in. Being called out on his behavior had been a real awakening for Jon, and made him more empathetic towards those he was serving with. 

I think that this is one of the reasons that people actually want to follow Jon. Because he has learned not to use his position in order to force people to go along with him. He doesn't count himself as being better on account of his rank. And he recognizes his responsibility as leader to those around him. The Wildlings had little personal stake in the fight against Ramsey, but they answered Jon's call because he had died to defend them. The Northern houses are following Jon's lead because of his accomplishments. He's grown tremendously in the past few years.

[domina89]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

Jon did arrive at the wall with a bit of an attitude. He did look down on many of his brothers in the watch and had said outright to Tryion that he was better than they were when he felt that he wasn't given the recognition that he deserved.

I always interpreted Jon's comment to Tyrion that he was 'better than them' to mean that he believed he was better at swordplay- not that he thought he was better than them overall because of his birth or upbringing.  

[OhOkayWhat]

It's pretty simple: 

The books have their own canon.

The show has its own canon.

[Oscirus]

42 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I always interpreted Jon's comment to Tyrion that he was 'better than them' to mean that he believed he was better at swordplay- not that he thought he was better than them overall because of his birth or upbringing.  

As Tyrion showed, that was all tied in together. 

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Jon is not a noble, which was @anamika's point.

Truth though Jon is a noble, the difference is He Doesn't Know IT!

He wasn't brought up as a noble to protect him, which in turn gave him advantages and disadvantages.

Jon able to meet with different classes of people including wildlings.

Arya is noble, who easily interacts with commonors.

[arjumand]

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Jon is not a noble, which was @anamika's point.

Because Jon cannot claim power by right of bloodline, again because he's bastard-born. 

 

Of course Jon is a noble - not being able to claim power by right of bloodline is a completely different issue.

Jon is the acknowledged bastard of Ned Stark, and so he has a surname (Snow) and is brought up in the lord's household on the same level as his legitimate sons. It was unusual, but not completely unknown: see Daemon Waters, later to become Daemon Blackfyre. 

 

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

As Tyrion showed, that was all tied in together. 

Yes - the only reason Jon could wipe the floor with them was that he got trained by Ser Rodrick Cassel, anointed knight and veteran of Robert's Rebellion, along with Robb and Theon. As Tyrion said, none of the other Night's Watch boys had ever picked up anything other than farm implements.

And yes, Jon turned up at Castle Black with a massive chip on his shoulder, became angry that he had been deceived as to what it's really like, and I'm sure felt quite superior to the other Night's Watch recruits at first. Then, because Jon is essentially a good bloke, and Tyrion set him straight, he realised his mistake and corrected it.

Even when he has his little chat with Melisandre in Season 6x10, we're reminded that Jon had a better life than most in Westeros and beyond - sure, he wasn't allowed at the big table, with the family, but he wasn't serving them! He wasn't a slave, like Melisandre, either. It was his choice to join the Night's Watch, like other nobles there - Ser Alliser Thorne, Lord Joer Mormont, Ser Waymar Royce, etc.

[Dev F]

4 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Jon is not a noble, which was @anamika's point.

I feel like this point tends to get overemphasized, though. Fans have a tendency to see bastardy as purely a social stigma, as if the last names "Snow," "Sand," etc. are like scarlet letters that doom them to ignominy. But that ignores the fact that it's a privilege to have any last name at all. Acknowledged bastards have a social status vastly superior to the smallfolk or to unacknowledged bastards like Gendry.

So, no, Jon isn't a noble, but as the acknowledged bastard of a great lord he does enjoy a high status that in some cases can lead to becoming a lord or even a king. The books are filled with examples of such things happening.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Dev F

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Regarding the fanfiction debate;

1. This is most definitely NOT the place for that discussion and those posts have been removed.
2. As far as PTV (and this forum) is concerned GoT is an adaptation of GRRM's ASOIAF and should be referred to as such.

Further posts on this will also be removed.

[Fen]

Some good things:

• Ser Jorah might yet survive!
• Arya and Nymeria met up
• The sea battle was fun to watch
• Theon managed to escape.  I know some people might see his leap overboard as cowardice - but no.  He's still incredibly fragile, and - from a modern pov - suffering from PTSD.  His glance round at the battle was very similar to the Hound's way back at the Battle of the Blackwater, when his fear of fire kicked in.  What would have been accomplished by running towards Euron, other than a slit throat, or maybe more Ramsay-esque torture to amuse Euron during the voyage back to Kings' Landing?  On top of that, it means Theon gets his own story again

Some silly things

• Given that they are in open rebellion against the crown, the pro-Daenerys Ironborn fleet apparently took a pretty relaxed attitude to life, given how easily Euron was apparently able to sneak up on them.  What kind of defensive tactic was Yara employing, exactly?  This is almost on a par with Dragonstone being ungarrisoned (bad enough), and Cersei apparently failing to take advantage of a strategically important and conveniently empty castle (worse again).
• I'm sure it's sweet and all that, but I don't really care much about Grey Worm and Missandei, and that was a very long scene in a very short season.

[WatchrTina]

Random speculation of the morning -- why do you suppose the show-runners went to the trouble of re-casting Dickon Tarly with the very attractive (and tall and brawny) Tom Hopper -- lately of "Black Sails" fame?  Tom was excellent on Black Sails and had an interesting story arc that took him from being one of the few "good" guys on the show to being a rather messed-up and tortured soul by the end of four seasons.  He did a great job (IMHO) and it didn't hurt that along the way he frequently wore short sleeves to show off some of the most amazing biceps in TV.  On occasion he took his shirt off and can I just say, "Damn."  (Google Men's Health Cover Tom Hopper if you are interested.)  So . . . why bother re-casting a minor role like that with a "name" actor unless we are going to be seeing significantly more of the character?  Why bother casting a guy who is rather well known for looking hot with his kit off unless we are going to be seeing significantly MORE of the actor? (wink wink, nudge nudge)

Remember when the role of Daario Naharis was re-cast?  I am convinced that happened because the first actor looked too romance-novel-cover-ish and had no on-screen chemistry with Emilia Clarke as Daenerys.  I suspect the role of Dickon Tarly was also recast in order to amp up the on-screen chemistry between him and . . . someone.  So, who do you suppose it will be?  I speculate that Dickon is either going to end up as Cersei's new boy toy OR (more likely) Randall Tarly is going to pay a sneaky visit to Dragonston and offer up his son as Daenerys' new consort.

Waddaya think?

ETA: The more I think about it the more I think Randall Tarly (who was basically offered lordship of the Reach by Jaime in this episode) is going to demand a marriage between Cersei and Dickon to seal he deal.  That actually makes more sense than Cersei taking a lover because right now she's a bit busy ruling and everyone (including Jaime) is watching her every move.

Edited July 29, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Raachel2008]

6 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Random speculation of the morning -- why do you suppose the show-runners went to the trouble of re-casting Dickon Tarly with the very attractive (and tall and brawny) Tom Hopper -- lately of "Black Sails" fame?  Tom was excellent on Black Sails and had an interesting story arc that took him from being one of the few "good" guys on the show to being a rather messed-up and tortured soul by the end of four seasons.  He did a great job (IMHO) and it didn't hurt that along the way he frequently wore short sleeves to show off some of the most amazing biceps in TV.  On occasion he took his shirt off and can I just say, "Damn."  (Google Men's Health Cover Tom Hopper if you are interested.)  So . . . why bother re-casting a minor role like that with a "name" actor unless we are going to be seeing significantly more of the character?  Why bother casting a guy who is rather well known for looking hot with his kit off unless we are going to be seeing significantly MORE of the actor? (wink wink, nudge nudge)

Nah, Freddie Stroma, who played Dickon (ha!) Tarly was cast in an ABC series and couldn't do both. He is fairly attractive himself, so I don't think it is about Tom Hopper being a hot guy.

6 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Remember when the role of Daario Naharis was re-cast?  I am convinced that happened because the first actor looked too romance-novel-cover-ish and had no on-screen chemistry with Emilia Clarke as Daenerys.  

Actually Ed Skrein wanted to leave the show to pursue other roles. IIRC he has done a few things since leaving the show, like Deadpool.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Dorne2.0]

Didn't read the thread yet, I'll just say this and later read it, so I'm sorry if someone said this before.

I assume we will see even more rape and torture now. They have to make Euron even worse than Ramsey and Ellaria and her daughter will go through hell. Of course Cercei will torture Ellaria's daughter to death in front of her. I am kind of tired of rape and horrendous torture. I know they killed Tristan, Mycella and Doran but they should have just killed Ellaria and the girl, Oberyn has four more young daughters to continue the line of sucession. I mean Vikings doesn't have this much rape and the real vikings were famous for that. Was that Yara hanging from the ship? Was she captured? Are we going to see her being raped and tortured too?

And why don't warrior Dornish women carry poison to kill themselves if they are about to be captured? Oberyn knew a lot about poison, didn't he? Capture means rape, torture and being kept as hostage so the Dornish Nobles obey. 

[WatchrTina]

10 hours ago, Dorne2.0 said:

Was that Yara hanging from the ship?

No, it was the Sand Snake who liked using a whip (I forget her name).  I assumed she was hanged by her own whip. 

10 hours ago, Dorne2.0 said:

Was she captured?

One would assume so since Euron had her by the throat when he was taunting Theon.  Also some people who have scrutinized the preview in detail have spotted a figure that could be her following Euron as he rides triumphantly through the streets of Kings Landing.

10 hours ago, Dorne2.0 said:

Are we going to see her being raped and tortured too?

No way to know.  I'd say Ellaria's daughter is going to meet a grisly, revenge-fueled end (while Ellaria is forced to watch) as pay-back for Ellaria killing Myrcella.  But Yara may have some value as a hostage so she might survive.  Then again, didn't she flee the Iron Islands in the first place because she assumed Euron would murder her?  He may still want her eliminated, along with her claim to the throne of the Iron Islands, and it wouldn't surprise me if he whacked her right there in the throne room in order to to make a point to Cersei about not tolerating rival claimants to the throne.  But I still hold out hope that there is a redemption arc planned for Theon and that rescuing his sister will be the culmination of the arc.

Edited July 30, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Constantinople]

I think this is the first time Hot Pie called the Stark home Winterfell instead of Winterhell

[jeansheridan]

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 9:05 AM, WatchrTina said:

speculate that Dickon is either going to end up as Cersei's new boy toy OR (more likely) Randall Tarly is going to pay a sneaky visit to Dragonston and offer up his son as Daenerys' new consort.

I agree. There are few marriage choices for Dany on the show. Tyrion, Dickon,  Jamie (VERY) unlikely, Robin (shudder) and my favorite,  Bran. She doesn't need to get married but even she mentioned alliances.

I don't think Bran will be a traditional three eyed crow, stuck under a tree. And the actor has aged very well. He has a bit of David Tennant and a bit of Daniel Radcliff and a lovely voice.

[MisterBluxom]

I searched the last few pages for the string "Bravo" trying to figure out something about Circe's discussion with the banker from the Bank of Bravos. But I couldn't find anything. So, please forgive me if this has already been discussed somewhere in this thread, but I sure would like to ask the question, "Does anyone here have any idea just why Circe is asking for two weeks time (a fortnight) and then she promises that she will pay off all her debts in full? I have no idea how she thinks that she can do that but I sure would love to know.

Does anyone here have any clue as to just how she figures on doing that?  I'm guessing that if she ever entered "Big Brother", all the other HGs would hate her so much that they would all clear out of the house leaving her all alone and she could then collect the grand prize.  But, seriously, it seems to me that we really should be able to put our fingers on just what it is she is thinking about. What is there in Westeros that is worth a huge amount of money - a fortune? I would guess in our terms, she would be owing the bank several million dollars and what could she possibly be thinking of to get that much scratch? Is she planning on selling Dany's dragons?

If I was her, I think that I would plan on some kind of battle whereby if I win, then I can collect all the money in the world and if I lose, then I will surely die and so it won't matter any more and these bankers can go and try to collect from someone else. After all, I won't care cuz I'l be dead.

Not a very pleasant plan but would anyone else here have any ideas? Maybe it might have something to do with the death of Danny and then she could re-introduce slavery and she could make slaves out of everyone she didn't like (which, of course, would be everyone in this world) and she could then make a bunch of money selling them to horrible people who would torture and abuse them for her private amusement. What do you think?

By the way, I want to say that I enjoyed tonight's episode above and beyond most any other in recent memory. So many good things happened and so many questions were answered. I really enjoyed seeing how the story line developed for that woman (Ellaria Sand?) who murdered Circes Daughter.  The one big remaining story (or story within a story) is Circe going insane and I know that I will truly enjoy watching that. She certainlly deserves a whole lot of bad stuff coming into her life and I have a feeling it all will be highly entertaining..

Any other ideas that some of you might like to entertain? Please go ahead and post  your thoughts here. Don't be bashful! I'd love to hear what you have to say!

Edited July 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Alapaki]

24 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I searched the last few pages for the string "Bravo" trying to figure out something about Circe's discussion with the banker from the Bank of Bravos. But I couldn't find anything. So, please forgive me if this has already been discussed somewhere in this thread, but I sure would like to ask the question, "Does anyone here have any idea just why Circe is asking for two weeks time (a fortnight) and then she promises that she will pay off all her debts in full? I have no idea how she thinks that she can do that but I sure would love to know.

Does anyone here have any clue as to just how she figures on doing that?  I'm guessing that if she ever entered "Big Brother", all the other HGs would hate her so much that they would all clear out of the house leaving her all alone and she could then collect the grand prize.  But, seriously, it seems to me that we really should be able to put our fingers on just what it is she is thinking about. What is there in Westeros that is worth a huge amount of money - a fortune? I would guess in our terms, she would be owing the bank several million dollars and what could she possibly be thinking of to get that much scratch? Is she planning on selling Dany's dragons?

If I was her, I think that I would plan on some kind of battle whereby if I win, then I can collect all the money in the world and if I lose, then I will surely die and so it won't matter any more and these bankers can go and try to collect from someone else. After all, I won't care cuz I'l be dead.

Not a very pleasant plan but would anyone else here have any ideas? Maybe it might have something to do with the death of Danny and then she could re-introduce slavery and she could make slaves out of everyone she didn't like (which, of course, would be everyone in this world) and she could then make a bunch of money selling them to horrible people who would torture and abuse them for her private amusement. What do you think?

By the way, I want to say that I enjoyed tonight's episode above and beyond most any other in recent memory. So many good things happened and so many questions were answered. I really enjoyed seeing how the story line developed for that woman (Ellaria Sand?) who murdered Circes Daughter.  The one big remaining story (or story within a story) is Circe going insane and I know that I will truly enjoy watching that. She certainlly deserves a whole lot of bad stuff coming into her life and I have a feeling it all will be highly entertaining..

Any other ideas that some of you might like to entertain? Please go ahead and post  your thoughts here. Don't be bashful! I'd love to hear what you have to say!

I suspect her plan was that she'd get the gold held by Highgarden.  

[MisterBluxom]

34 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

I suspect her plan was that she'd get the gold held by Highgarden.  

I always knew that the people at Highgarden were wealthy. But I never suspected that she wanted to kill Lady Aleanna(sp?)  because I always thought that she still believes it was Tyrion who was responsible for the death of Joffrey - not Oleanna!  It is only now that Jaimie may tell her that Oleanna was the one who poisoned Joffrey?

As far as I know this is the section of the forum with "no book talk". So unless I have mistakenly wandered into the wrong section, I have no idea just how Circe would know how much money the Highgarden people have or how she can get her hands on it. I would think that either one of two situations exist. Either:

1) Lady Oleanna holds her money above board and has bank accounts with the Bank of Bravos and they know how much money she has and where it is. But, even if Circe murders Oleanna, I don't see how she will ever get her hands on that money.  I would presume in the absence of a will, the bank  would grab that money and Circe would be S.O.L.  I think that is almost always what happens when someone does not leave a will. But I could be wrong.

OR ...

2) The money is hidden somewhere like a Swiss bank account or the Westeros equivalent and when Oleaana dies, it will be next to impossible for anyone to find or grab that money.

But you are very probably correct because I don't know of any other source of a large pile of cash. I don't know anyone else who might have it . Oh wait!   What about the people in Dorn?  Circe knows that Oleanna and the Sand Snakes and their mother have been friendly and so maybe she figures that those ladies have got their hands on Oleanna's money somehow and if she murders Oleanna, she will be able to grab that cash?

It still seems like quite a mystery. I thank you very much for helping me to take a step or two in the direction of figuring this thing out. I'd love to hear from anyone else who might have an idea as to just where to go from here. Any ideas?     Anybody?

Edited July 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Alapaki]

I think it's "show knowledge" that Highgarden is very wealthy.  Remember it was the Tyrell's who brought food in to feed Kings Landing and that was one of the reasons that the commoners loved Margaery.

[MisterBluxom]

5 hours ago, Alapaki said:

I think it's "show knowledge" that Highgarden is very wealthy.  Remember it was the Tyrell's who brought food in to feed Kings Landing and that was one of the reasons that the commoners loved Margaery.

Yes. I agree it's common knowledge there is a lot of money in HighGarden. I'd just like to understand what Cersei could possibly be thinking in terms of how she will get her hands on that money. She must have something specific in mind. I'd really love to know what that could be. If she is on the path to full insanity, maybe she figures she will defeat their armies and then torture each and every citizen there until one of them coughs up the money. That would be something a fully insane person might try. But, somehow, I expect she has something else in mind.

 

EEK! I just realized that I have been posting in the wrong forum. Thankfully, I didn't say anything about the books. I couldn't really since I've not read them. But I apologize and I will leave and I won't return. Very sorry.

Edited July 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Heckler52317]

Took me a long time for this (and do I get my necromancy chain link for resurrecting this thread?) but I've reconciled the horrible performance of the Yara:Theon fleet- Greyjoys are pirates, reavers. Their only thoughts are to offense. On what they consider an administrative movement they are lax and unconcerned about attack (who attaches pirates?). Enter the greatest pirate the world has known. His amazing skills and instincts plus their natural disdain for awareness led to the surprise. I imagine if the roles were reversed a similar surprise could have been sprung on him. Plus no one on his shop can shout a warning ?

[John Potts]

Go Varys - he's got some balls talking to Danny like that (so to speak...). Though I did like the callbacks to previous seasons - Danny quoting Ilirio, Hotpie (loved him calling Arya "Harry") and a Stark grabbing Littlefinger by the throat!

Sorry, Danny, the Yara/Olenna/Elaria axis were right. You win the war by killing Cersei, not long diversionary attacks. I understand not wanting to bring in too many foreigners, but people will die of starvation and disease if you beseige KL. There's a reason the Allies planned D-Day, they only considered landings in France (despite complete domination of the air and sea) because accidents can always happen (even ignoring enemy fleets, the weather could wreck a fleet). Though I did like that Cersei quoted some real Danny acts to convince her Lords (who apparently have forgiven her for blowing up part of KL?) that Danny is a tyrant. And taking Kings Landing ends the war. It's prolonging the war that is making the people suffer - there's a reason Robert's rebellion ended when Tywin sacked KL. Yes, the sack of Kings Landing is going to be brutal, but it will have to take place eventually (unless they believe Cersei is going to surrender, which seems extremely unlikely). And yes, there is the small chance Cersei might escape, but the entire basis of her right to be Queen is the fact that she was occupying it at the time. Without that, only her die hard supporters would support her and she'll have as much support as Viserys did (if that).

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:08 PM, screamin said:

Thing is, what does a union with Jon offer Dany? He gets dragonglass and maybe the use of her dragons against the Night King...what does  he offer in exchange?

Another front against Cersei. Currently she has to defend her South Western front against the Tyrells/Dornish, and her Eastern flank against a Danny invasion. With the North (and Vale) in the Alliance, Cersei also has to worry about protecting her Northern flank as well.

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, Francie said:

Who else is Tommen's heir?

 

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:12 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

His cat.

And thus we see how Ser Pounce's grand plan to seize the Throne is almost complete!