S02.E06: Sokosha

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

The Saint corners the trio; Jesse makes a deal with the killer Cowboy; Jesse races to save Tulip and Cassidy.

[johntfs]

I'm glad they didn't spoil everything in the teaser.  Still, given that Jesse is literally dealing with the SoK, I wonder who or what he has to race to save Tulip and Cassidy from?

[TigerLynx]

I thought Rick Grimes and his merry band of idiots were the plague and wreaked havoc wherever they went, but they've got nothing on these guys.

Viktor's daughter is smart, and I'm glad she got away.

Jesse dumping the SOK in a swamp is going to come back to bite him in the ass.  That is a temporary solution at best.

Interesting that Jesse's soul matched the SOK.  I wonder if that's why Genesis didn't cause Jesse to explode.

Poor Cassidy.

How many people are running around without souls trying to buy one, how did they lose their souls in the first place, and what happens to the people who sale parts of their souls (I'm not buying the you won't miss it line)?

Loved seeing those guys scatter when Jesse told them to get lost.

[AimingforYoko]

10 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Loved seeing those guys scatter when Jesse told them to get lost.

You know they're going to keep running until they do just that.

[SoSueMe]

8 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

You know they're going to keep running until they do just that.

LOL

How did I not guess that Dennis was Cassidy's son. And such feels when he brought "toys" for Dennis. He's such a 'human' vampire.

[Babalooie]

18 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

How did I not guess that Dennis was Cassidy's son

I would have never guessed that in a million years.  I had forgotten that Cassidy is 120 years old.

[pezgirl7]

So apparently vampires are still fertile?! Cassidy really should have learned French. Now I really want to know everything that Dennis said to Cassidy.

The soul thing is weird. It seems like people that are sick or maybe near death can be given another lease at life by getting a soul transplant. Does that mean your soul fades as you get older? I wonder how much Jesse only having 99% of a soul will affect him?

Maybe I missed it, but why did the SOK want a soul?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

So apparently vampires are still fertile?!

Not necessarily.  We don't know how long he's been a vampire, but if he turned when he was 35, and Denis is 85, the math works.

12 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

Maybe I missed it, but why did the SOK want a soul?

Genesis doesn't work on him because he doesn't have a soul, so Jesse can't order him to Heaven the way he sent Eugene to Hell.

[Lantern7]

Dick Cheney slam for the win. I laughed at Frankie Muniz popping up a few weeks ago, but the end of the tape had me on the floor, laughing so hard.

The story? Oh, right. We got the Grail coming up, so the Saint had to go for a while. Nice that you can find arcane lore in any New Orleans library, and that the Saint's story has been documented a lot. With art from Steve Dillon and Glenn Fabry, no less! And since the Saint had to leave the show for a bit, of course Jesse got to make the right moves, even after Tulip's improvised explosives filed to dent the armored truck. As for the collecting of souls, Jesse's knowledge of that, and the Japanese perfecting the practice like with the artificial blood that made TruBlood . . . why the fuck not?!? While I don't think we'll get the full experience from the comic, the show does tend to come up with nice bits of insanity.

Didn't care about Frenchy (not "The Frenchman"; that's a different Ennis comic) being Cassidy's kid. Has it been established how old Cassidy is here? Maybe the kid was conceived before Cassidy got turned.

[HollyG]

I thought that the fresh soul cured the woman's Alzheimers disease. Sorta like what happens on Supernatural when a wounded angel touches a human soul to heal himself. ? That's all I got!

Edited July 25, 2017 by HollyG

[HollyG]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Has it been established how old Cassidy is here? Maybe the kid was conceived before Cassidy got turned.

According to Wikia, Cassidy is 119. It doesn't say how old he was when he was turned.

[pezgirl7]

26 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Not necessarily.  We don't know how long he's been a vampire, but if he turned when he was 35, and Denis is 85, the math works.

Cassidy is 119 years old, for someone else who asked. But Denis doesn't look anywhere near 85 to me. The actor who plays him is about 65, so the math doesn't really work. Unless Dennis looks really good for his age. :)

Edited July 25, 2017 by pezgirl7

[johntfs]

39 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

So apparently vampires are still fertile?!

Why not?  Aside from needing to drink blood, he can clearly eat, drink, shoot drugs, piss, shit and sleep like a human.  Presumably he can fuck like a human, too.  Ooh, what if he left a bun in Tulip's oven?

[Sandman87]

I laughed and laughed at the music in the second scene: A honky-tonk piano version of "Peter, Peter, Pumpkin Eater!" BTW, the two most widely accepted explanations of the original meaning of the song are that it's either 1) about King John murdering a noble's wife by bricking her up in a wall and letting her starve, or 2) a man murdering his prostitute wife and hiding the body.

"Happy Soul Go Go" is such a consumer friendly name for a soul-taking business. It adds some evidence to my thesis (mentioned previously regarding bus trips to Hell) that there's an entire underground industry of supernatural weirdness in this setting.

Anyone else getting some Interview with the Vampire (book version) vibes from this episode? A vampire caring for his sickly elderly male French relative. Making the immortal guy vulnerable by getting him to willingly consume something extracted from someone else. Dumping the immortal guy in a swamp immediately after that.

[talktalk]

What I don't get is why Jesse didn't send SOK to hell as he originally planned? What is the rational behind his decision to dump him in a swamp instead? 

[HollyG]

Wondering if anyone with book knowledge can answer this. 

When Tulip asked him how he knows about souls, he tells her that it was his family's business. Was this in the books, or is it something added for the TV series. I've read a bit about his grandmother Maria L'Angell, but nothing about buying & selling souls.

[Sandman87]

He apparently didn't want part of his own soul ending up in Hell. Maybe that would end up dragging all of his soul down there.

[HollyG]

30 minutes ago, talktalk said:

What I don't get is why Jesse didn't send SOK to hell as he originally planned? What is the rational behind his decision to dump him in a swamp instead? 

Jesse was going to until SoK told him that he'd be taking the 1% of Jesse's soul with him to hell. He probably stashed him in the swamp so that he could retrieve his 1% later. (just a guess)

[Mr. Sparkle]

4 hours ago, HollyG said:

Wondering if anyone with book knowledge can answer this. 

When Tulip asked him how he knows about souls, he tells her that it was his family's business. Was this in the books, or is it something added for the TV series. I've read a bit about his grandmother Maria L'Angell, but nothing about buying & selling souls.

If memory serves, it was added for the comics. Generally, the show has strayed FAR from the book. I read the whole series about a year ago, and I've been slowly rereading it since this season started. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

On another note, I really enjoyed this episode, especially compared to last week. Action, tension, comedy, and intrigue with the Japanese soul-takers. 

Also, with the Saint out of the picture (I'm sure that's temporary,) the show is free to move the plot to Herr Starr & the Grail. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Superclam

[TigerLynx]

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Dick Cheney slam for the win.

That was hilarious.

I also laughed at Cassidy and his umbrella when Jesse, Tulip and Cassidy were trying to figure out what to do about the SOK.

[Eulipian 5k]

7 hours ago, talktalk said:

What I don't get is why Jesse didn't send SOK to hell as he originally planned? What is the rational behind his decision to dump him in a swamp instead? 

The SoK was a lot more wordy than I expected. He talked his way out of being sent back to hell "With 1% of your soul". That stopped Jesse in his tracks. I thought he was just a "Preacher? BOOM" type, like "Hulk  smash!"

Seeing the two of them watching a 20th Century TV was also funny. Would Denis or Cassidy be a match for the SoK also?

[Bruinsfan]

9 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

He apparently didn't want part of his own soul ending up in Hell. Maybe that would end up dragging all of his soul down there.

That's probably his motivation. Though if taking responsibility for/repenting of sin have anything to do with getting to Heaven in this setting, I have some bad news for Jesse...

 

OK, they've explained why the Saint of Killers was immune to Genesis' power. But how does that allow his weapons to act like armor piercing mortar rounds and kill even supposedly immortal celestial beings? And if his soul went kablooey and its pieces scattered to the four winds, what exactly was it that went to Hell anyway? Why wouldn't he just... end, when his body died back in the 19th century?

Edited July 25, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Nice that you can find arcane lore in any New Orleans library, and that the Saint's story has been documented a lot.

You can find "lore" on UFOs, witchcraft and the Bermuda Triangle in most libraries in the USA in our world, so why not?  It's pretty clear that the world of Preacher is emphatically not our world.  Tom Cruise is alive here and Dick Cheney is not going to be in a book of American psychopaths.  The Saint of Killers is a famousish legend in their world like the Jersey Devil is in our world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Devil

Apparently David Icke lizard hybrid people are a thing in both our worlds.

Edited July 25, 2017 by johntfs

[TigerLynx]

I forgot to mention the breakfast conversation.  There's no way I believe Cassidy didn't know exactly what he was doing when he mentioned the woman singer.  And Jesse's, "I'll tell you what I didn't do.  I didn't marry her, Tulip," had me rolling my eyes.  If Jesse is going to contemplate killing a man Tulip married when they were broken up, he shouldn't be surprised if Tulip questions him about a woman now that they have resumed their relationship.

Edited July 25, 2017 by TigerLynx

[johntfs]

I liked the bit with Jesse puzzling out the mystery of the yogurt while the Saint is murdering his way through the apartment building.  Also, the image of the Saint and Jesse watching that silly-ass audition tape was great.  I felt oddly sorry for the SoK at the end.  He really didn't even want to get to Heaven for Heaven's sake.  He just wanted to see his wife and kid again.  I think if they somehow ended up in Hell, he'd prefer to go there.  Meanwhile, the SoK as a character in a trashy romance novel version of his story was just awesome, too.

[AnimeMania]

Throw-away image of the episode, Jesse had a scar on his back that looked like an angel wing was cut off.

[TigerLynx]

When the trio were discussing what to do about the SOK, while Cassidy held his umbrella, snarked at each other at the library, Cassidy remembers at the last moment he needs to let Dennis know what is going on, and then Jesse calls Tulip to ask how to build a bomb, they reminded me of a group of teenage kids who decided to skip school for the day, but don't really know what to do from there.

[ganesh]

I thought the exposition about SoK was clever. I also liked how he wasn't actually immune to the voice, but it was a neat twist I didn't see coming about Jesse sending his own soul to hell. Though I didn't like Jesse's arrogance in decided whether SoK should go to either place. 

Obviously, it was just short sighted to plop him in the swamp. If he's affected by the voice, why not just tell him to go sit in the basement and not move until Jesse tells him to? 

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Obviously, it was just short sighted to plop him in the swamp. If he's affected by the voice, why not just tell him to go sit in the basement and not move until Jesse tells him to? 

On the other hand, even once he gets out the SoK can't just track Jesse down and kill him.  As far as he knows, he needs Jesse to send him to Heaven.  We might end up seeing the SoK launching a separate search for God or otherwise try to figure a way to deal with Jesse beyond direct violence or confrontation, since he's no longer immune to Genesis.

On a completely separate topic, I wonder if Arseface will run into some/all of the folks from Annville in Hell.  Maybe the Saint will go back to Hell to look for the guy Jesse sent there and end up with Arseface and Hitler as traveling companions.

[thuganomics85]

Didn't know what the hell was going at first (except that it's always great seeing Ando from Heroes!), but the reveal that there is some organization that it collecting souls and there are even ways to take just parts of them, is an intriguing idea.  And, of course, "Ando" asked the big "Do you have any idea who you are stealing from?" line, so Jesse will no doubt have to deal with this going forward.

Jesse facing down The Saint of Killers finally was good, and I liked the way he outmaneuvered him, by giving him part of a soul and that allows Genesis to work on him.  That said, even though I understand why he didn't want his 1% anywhere near Hell, trapping SOK underwater is only going to be effective for so long.  Also have a feeling that something is going to come out of SOK grabbing Tulip by the throat.  Clearly is set up for something big.

Did not predict that Denis was Cassidy's son.  Cassidy really does suck as a father.  At least he gave him a flatscreen and Playstation 4....

They (or Cassidy) finally mention Lara the lounge singer again.  Wonder when she's coming  back.

[ghoulina]

This show. Where else can you see a Preacher with a super power chasing down a souls-on-wheels truck and extract 1% of his soul in order to give it to a psychopath that's trying to kill him? Oh, and his best friend is a vampire junkie and he's in love with a total badass who can only cook with junk food. I just can't get enough!

I had no idea what was going on with the soul catcher guy at first, but I found the concept simultaneously fascinating and hilarious. And even when I figured it out, I STILL didn't get that Jesse was just giving SOK a soul so he could command him. I thought he was really going to try and get him into heaven. 

How did y'all get the Dennis was Cassidy's son??? I'll admit, I have trouble hearing shows on AMC for some reason, and I had the AC AND dishwasher running last night. I wish I could figure out closed captioning on my TV. But I totally missed that one! 

Either way, I really kind of want them to stay in New Orleans long term, just because the whole Cassidy-Dennis dynamic cracks me up. Dennis storming around, Tulips asking, "What's up with HIM?", Cassidy replying, "He's French". 

Not a fan of Cassidy intentionally fucking with Jesse and Tulip's relationship, though. Mentioning that Laura the lounge singer got Jesse all flustered. I just want the three of them to be BFF forever!!!! 

"Chapter 58 : Dick Cheney". Bahahahaha, damn. That was awesome. Even my husband guffawed from the next room. 

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

On the other hand, even once he gets out the SoK can't just track Jesse down and kill him.  As far as he knows, he needs Jesse to send him to Heaven. 

He's still inflicting a lot of collateral damage. Jesse could be far more clever with the voice than he is. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Either way, I really kind of want them to stay in New Orleans long term, just because the whole Cassidy-Dennis dynamic cracks me up. Dennis storming around, Tulips asking, "What's up with HIM?", Cassidy replying, "He's French". 

Once they leave, Cassidy may never see his son again, due to Denis's age and health.

[pezgirl7]

13 hours ago, ghoulina said:

How did y'all get the Dennis was Cassidy's son??? I'll admit, I have trouble hearing shows on AMC for some reason, and I had the AC AND dishwasher running last night. I wish I could figure out closed captioning on my TV. But I totally missed that one! 

Tulip, Cassidy and Dennis were sitting in the living room, and Cassidy was upset with himself for never learning French, after all these years. Tulip guessed that Dennis was Cassidy's father or uncle or something. Cassidy said No, he's my son. Then he really sweetly stroked Dennis' face, and said something about how crappy it must be to have a father like him.

[Snookums]

Quote

OK, they've explained why the Saint of Killers was immune to Genesis' power. But how does that allow his weapons to act like armor piercing mortar rounds and kill even supposedly immortal celestial beings? And if his soul went kablooey and its pieces scattered to the four winds, what exactly was it that went to Hell anyway? Why wouldn't he just... end, when his body died back in the 19th century?

This is basically guesswork, but...

As his damnation, the SOK was condemned, like the rest of the Souls in Hell, to his worst memory over and over, but because he didn't have a soul, he was basically converted to an immortal, soulless being and physically, bodily made to suffer. Perhaps Hell tripped over themselves in getting their hands on this nuclear weapon and tricked him out with his "everything piercing" rounds that kill any thing/person/heavenly denizen, only to realize they had the classic "too powerful to control" situation on their hands. There was nothing to stop him just rampaging Hell and putting the souls out of their misery except sheer cussedness and spite. Which worked out perfectly for a while.

LeBlanc and Fiore's offer was the destabilizing element; giving the SOK a reason to live, so to speak. He's the one thing God is afraid of and now he's got reason to believe that he can face Him and demand answers. 

[ghoulina]

11 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Tulip, Cassidy and Dennis were sitting in the living room, and Cassidy was upset with himself for never learning French, after all these years. Tulip guessed that Dennis was Cassidy's father or uncle or something. Cassidy said No, he's my son. Then he really sweetly stroked Dennis' face, and said something about how crappy it must be to have a father like him.

Thank you! Lawd, I don't know how I missed that. I need to turn the volume up to 50 next time. 

[Eulipian 5k]

So what's the SoK's play when he gets out? He can't go gunning to kill Jesse; Jesse & Genesis can send him to Heaven. Even if he (SoK) finds God. God won't send him to Heaven, so he needs a favor from Jesse.

Isn't the SoK now in a Catch-22 with Jesse? He wants revenge but he can't kill Jesse.

And, is he still a remorse-less killing machine now that he has a piece of a soul? Would he go after Tulip, Cassidy, and Denis just to spite, or coerce Jesse into keeping the "deal"?

[ganesh]

We haven't actually seen Jesse be able to send someone to heaven, although he did send Eugene to hell, so it's not unreasonable to assume he could. SoK could help Jesse find god and then have Jesse use the voice on god to send him to heaven. SoK needs to find a bargaining chip. Threatening Tulip isn't  effective because Jesse can use the voice to prevent him 

I think SoK has a vested interest in finding god out of revenge too. 

[johntfs]

One thing that occurs to me is that the SoK could try killing Jesse with a normal weapon instead of his superguns.  Perhaps if Jesse died normally, Genesis would pop free and have to find another home.  In which case perhaps the new person would be more amenable to sending the SoK to Heaven.  Although one sticking point is that the closest home Genesis would likely find would be in the Saint himself, since the Saint has part of Jesse's soul.  Can the person hosting Genesis use Genesis on himself?

Edited July 27, 2017 by johntfs

[Eulipian 5k]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

Can the person hosting Genesis use Genesis on himself?

Ooh! Constitutional Crisis: Can the SoK (POTUS) pardon himself?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Eulipian 5k
not! On the Other Hand

[PreBabylonia]

I loved this episode. Highly entertaining and I never saw the ending going the way it did. I expected The SOK  would become Jesse's pet, a ruthless killer he could control and make do "good things" to atone for all the suffering he caused. Something akin to Spike and Angel, without their appeal and charm.

I read the whole swamp thing wrong though. I assumed he was going to die, and end up in Hell without Jesse using his power. I figured that Jesse had realized that he should limit his use of the Voice. I guess not. I see Genesis as similar to the One Ring - a power that can be used for good or for evil but will inevitably corrupt and control the one that uses it.

There's also some similarity to this season's arc in Supernatural. The progeny of human and supernatural will become all powerful and most likely, become a destructive force in the universe.