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The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

SpaghettiTuesdays

By SpaghettiTuesdays
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

The dad is "young and retired"? Is he doubling down in his Gothard beliefs?

Is he now a preaching landscaper or preaching mechanic?

He's definitely doubled down on his religion. He's been interviewed by other Gothardites on Embassy Media. And they've definitely attended Gothard events pretty regularly over some period of time. I didn't listen to any interviews but according to a caption Dad did seem to have some faith-related crisis several years ago and really dug into bible reading and such. Don't know if he was involved with IBLP before then or whether he got pulled in at that point. 

He's also got at least one small but somewhat fancy plane and is a volunteer pilot for one of those volunteer-pilot medical air transport groups. The one he lists on his Linkedin is called Angel Flight West. It doesn't seem to be fundie or even necessarily Christian. It's got a wide variety of experienced pilots, people involved with medical groups including Mayo, and a lot of other people with very fancy educations and impressive resumes. 

So he seems to be straddling nutso Gothard world and a much more mainstream circle. https://www.angelflightwest.org/about-us/board-of-directors/

It's an odd connection for Duggars. Can't imagine how dumb-and-arrogant-seeming utterly uneducated and largely unemployed smugface fits in with this.  

Here are the Nakatsus on some vacations -- https://www.nakatsus.com/author/kory/

They seem to have kind of a strange mixture of attributes. At the top of their family website they have a password-protected section called "Biblical Betrothal."                   Which seems to me to be a potential sign of some wackiness. Although that may just be me being too judgy. 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Ijustwantsomechips
Ijustwantsomechips

Maybe Jana needs her own thread as a token of the respect she’ll never garner as a single woman in Gothardland.  

andromeda331
andromeda331

How about both hop in the plane close the door really quickly and fly off.  Abbie: "Where are we going?" JD: Cayman Islands. We're elope. And we're not coming back! Abbie: Wait we need

BitterApple
BitterApple

Wow, so this is what, the fourth guy to publicly release a statement denying involvement with Jana? That must be doing wonders for her self-esteem.  These guys are starting to piss me off, though

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FizzyPuff

FizzyPuff

(edited)
1 hour ago, beckie said:

Do we know for certain TLC didn't film the wedding? Seems odd that they wouldn't since they "broke" Justin and Claire's courtship announcement. 

As for Jed and Katey, well.... I'll believe it when I see it?

There are pictures here of their engagement:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/m618mu/its_official_jed_is_engaged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Edited by FizzyPuff
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
12 minutes ago, FizzyPuff said:

There are pictures here off their engagement:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/m618mu/its_official_jed_is_engaged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

So choreographed. But pretty. 

Wonder how long it'll take her to secretly want to punch his very punchable face. A bit more punchable than Cade's, even, to me. Although I may just be biased because Cade appears to have a good work ethic and some actual talents and skills that he studies and practices and uses to earn money. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Tikichick

Tikichick

(edited)
5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So choreographed. 

Wonder how long it'll take her to secretly want to punch his very punchable face. A bit more punchable than Cade's, even, to me. Although I may just be biased because Cade appears to have a work ethic and some actual talents and skills that he practices and uses to earn money. 

No idea who Cade is, but I cannot imagine many faces more made for slapping/punching than this prospective Duggar groom. 

4 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

No worries. That will be extinguished soon enough.

Hope not.   That would be sad, and also their world could use some shaking up.   I can see the potential for striking sparks with M and Jessa.

ETA:   And it's fun to contemplate the many, many ways her papa might be able to position himself superior to JB, and how entertaining it will be to watch JB fumble and bumble up against obstacles he has no idea how to overcome.   

Edited by Tikichick
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

No idea who Cade is, but I cannot imagine many faces more made for slapping/punching than this prospective Duggar groom. 

Cade is Cade Foehner, a professional musician and an aspiring Calvinist pastor who is a man crush of Jeremy. You can see how punchable his face is here -- https://talentrecap.com/10-things-know-american-idols-cade-foehner/                 I was going to post something from his own social media, but he's wisely refraining from posting many pictures of his own face these days, looks like. 

But Jed! is sooooooo punchable. And it's hard to imagine him not getting even worse as time goes on. And unlike Cade, he doesn't seem ever to have held a real job to make up for the face a bit, either. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Re: The "Biblical Betrothal" thing that the Nakatsus have in a password-protected section at the top of their website. This seems to be an arranged-marriage thing. And way patriarchal in most cases, according to some stuff I saw. 

Not clear if they still embrace it, but their family website's most recent dated post is an account of a Gothard music event in Big Sandy, posted by daughter Lauren sometime between about a year and a half and two years ago..........And the post on the front page with the "mom's birthday" video looks fairly recent, too.

So the website hasn't been abandoned, or at least not abandoned long ago. And you'd think that if you no longer embraced something like Biblical Betrothal you'd take it down from the site. They haven't. They feature it right at the top. 

So it seems possible that this was more or less an arranged marriage. Hard to tell, of course. But if it was, that could account for the secrecy -- the Duggs definitely don't want to project that image, nor does TLC, I imagine. (Plus, there wouldn't be much of anything to air about the relationship (other than an official betrothal and a wedding). 

From Buzzfeed in 2012 -- 

"In Biblical Betrothal, Couples Commit To Marriage Before Even Going On A Date"

Posted on Aug 13, 2012

In some Christian communities, parents seek out spouses for their children. And according to some experts, the process — in which couples date only after they've committed to marry — might not be a bad idea.

by Anna North

When Israel Wayne was in his early twenties, his mom started talking to him about a girl named Brook. Specifically, she asked him to pray and think about whether Brook should become his wife. Israel had met Brook a few times — she was a few years younger, and they both worked in Christian publishing — but they'd never been on a date. Israel's mom had felt during prayer that Brook should become his wife. Though Brook and Israel didn't even live in the same state, they ended up getting married in 1999 through a process called Biblical betrothal. She was 20 and he was 23.

Right now Biblical betrothal is confined to just a few Christian communities, but this family-centered way of getting married is starting to get a lot of mainstream attention. And experts say it may actually be as good a way of finding a partner as any.

Different groups use the term "Biblical betrothal" in different ways, but for the Waynes, it meant that instead of dating or even courting Brook (a way of dating with an eye to marriage preferred in some Christian churches), Israel talked to his mom about whether she would make a good wife, and then prayed. When he decided God wanted the marriage, he asked Brook's parents for her hand. They asked her — Wayne is clear that "nowhere in scripture nor in what we practice" would a woman be forced to marry anyone — and she said yes. So the two entered into a betrothal, a binding engagement that guarantees marriage. Four and a half months later, after a few visits, during which they spent very little time alone, they were married. Wayne says, "our first kiss was at the altar."

For her part, Brook Wayne says she'd been terrified of divorce since the age of 8. The fear came from her own reading and stories from her parents about the heartbreak they experienced while dating, before they met each other. So when she was a teenager and her parents started talking to her about "saving your heart for the person that you marry" — that is, refraining from love or romance until making a firm commitment — she was intrigued. She thought about marrying Israel after they first met: "I was out praying and I felt like the Lord was telling me Israel was supposed to be my husband." At the time, he didn't seem ready for marriage, so she didn't speak up — they ended up marrying two and a half years later. So although some people thought she might be making a snap decision in marrying Israel, she didn't feel that way at all.

Israel Wayne says the process was a way to ensure their parents' support: "we wanted to make sure that we were showing proper respect and honor to our parents and looking to them for counsel, guidance, wisdom and blessing on who we would marry." And, he says, it gave them a sense of security: because they had entered a binding betrothal before they began spending significant time together, "we were able to give each other our hearts emotionally and romantically without fear that we would break this off." If any problems came up, "we had to figure out how to work it out and move forward as opposed to stepping back."

Sociologist Mary Ann Lamanna, co-author of Marriages and Families: Making Choices in a Diverse Society, says Biblical betrothal could potentially be "as good a way as any to meet prospective marital partners that one might have something in common with and that have been checked out, so to speak, out as to character." She adds that relationships tend to do best when they arise out of a couple's existing social networks, and "this could be viewed as one version of social networking." However, there's one big caveat: if the parents coerce the child into marriage, or if the child "is afraid to say no or make his/her own judgment," the marriage is unlikely to work.

Advocates of Biblical betrothal also emphasize emotional security. Bret Smith, a Georgia-based Christian broadcaster who also hosts workshops on Biblical betrothal, says Biblical betrothal protects young people's feelings by postponing emotional involvement until a couple have already committed to marry. All the romantic activities we usually associate with dating are reserved for the period after binding betrothal — according to Smith, that's "when the man brings the woman flowers, he sings songs to her, they talk about their dreams; that's the time to fall in love, after they've committed." He adds, "God never intended the process of finding a mate to be a process that destroys your emotions."

Do couples who barely knew each other before they committed to marry successfully fall in love? Smith says of the fifteen to twenty couples he's known who have gone through the Biblical betrothal process, none had any trouble bonding or loving each other. Israel Wayne says he and Brook "we were very romantically in love by the time we were married." However, he has known couples who went through betrothal and later divorced: "I wouldn't say betrothal is any kind of guarantee that people are going to have a blissful lifelong marriage."

In some cases, betrothal may also be the victim of its own success. Wayne says the process enjoyed a burst of popularity in the nineties, which apparently inspired some parents to push Biblical betrothal simply as a way to control who their children married. Betrothal works best, he says, when the children themselves want their parents' involvement — if the parents are forcing their kids to marry against their will, "that is always going to be disastrous."

Biblical betrothal may look strange to outsiders — some families Smith has known have exchanged a symbolic "bride-price" with roots in the Bible, typically 15 ounces of silver, which might strike non-believers as especially archaic. But some who study marriage say Biblical betrothal can be as good — or as flawed — as any system for bringing people together. Psychologist Everett Worthington, who studies religion and marriage, says the practice "can result in good (and poor) marriages, in the same way that romantic attraction as the basis for marriage can result in good (and poor) marriages." It may work especially well if couple stay within a group — like a church or homeschooling community — where such betrothal is the norm.

Pamela Haag, author of Marriage Confidential: The Post-Romantic Age of Workhorse Wives, Royal Children, Undersexed Spouses, and Rebel Couples Who Are Rewriting the Rules, says the last decade has seen a growing interest in "alternatives to the romantic models of mate selection in the past decade," with some arguing that romantic love is actually "a really terrible way to make marital decisions." So Biblical betrothal may be part of a larger trend. But she agrees with Lamanna (and Israel Wayne), that the consent of the couple is crucial: "in any process for getting engaged, control still has to be with the young people involved."

Brook and Israel Wayne, now in their thirties, live in Michigan with their seven children. While they hope their kids come to them for marriage advice when the time comes, they aren't set on Biblical betrothals for them. Says Brook, "I would love to see them surrender the whole issue of marriage to the Lord and follow what he plans for them," and "if I have shown myself trustworthy, I would love for them to come to me for wisdom."

Me:   "I would love to see them surrender the whole issue of marriage to the Lord and follow what he plans for them." How the heck would you actually do this? Go outside at night and look for sky signs or read entrails or try to interpret your dreams? Cut out all the pictures in your high school yearbook, toss them up in the air, and call the person whose picture lands on top and say that God told you you should marry them? Sounds like you wouldn't be supposed to even proactively meet anyone. --

Edited by Churchhoney
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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

(edited)
1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

They seem to have kind of a strange mixture of attributes. At the top of their family website they have a password-protected section called "Biblical Betrothal."                   Which seems to me to be a potential sign of some wackiness. Although that may just be me being too judgy. 

I noticed that on their website; Kory posted it in June 2018. Also on their website are posts about attending the Big Sandy Family Conference a few years ago. And Lauren (I assume that's Katey's sister) posted about attending a music-oriented event "Sound Foundations" at Big Sandy in 2019 (yes, an IBLP thing). There are lots of photos posted. I didn't recognize any Duggars among the many young folk pictured at the Family Conference and Sound Foundations, although because I don't keep up with the young Duggars, I could have missed them. 

ETA: I posted at the same time as @Churchhoney. Snap!

Again ETA: I scanned through a post from 2018 by Katey's dad about celebrating his wife's birthday. He mentioned that they were happy to be joined by Katey, who was doing a "prison ministry" in Florida. 

Edited by Jeeves
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

13 hours ago, crazy8s said:

wasn't it just like a month ago Jed! was going to marry Lauren Caldwell?

Since both Katelyn and Kendra have sisters named Lauren, I wonder whether some game of telephone took place in which somebody heard that "Jed's getting married," and then the phrase "sister Lauren" was spoken, and what somebody heard a couple gossips down the line was "Jed's marrying Kendra's sister Lauren." 

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crazy8s

crazy8s

Interesting Jed is courting and getting married without publicity. He also got his real estate license recently with no duggarfam "we now have another real estate person in the family" pic like they did for Jeer. Jed! also recently had an LLC formed in his name Ambassador Properties LLC that is registered to the car lot address, rather than the TTH address like the rest of the LLCs. 

Jed!s's other LLC owns that little church house/school house building Jana, Laura and the howlers worked on.

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
17 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

 

Jed!s's other LLC owns that little church house/school house building Jana, Laura and the howlers worked on.

 

Am I right in thinking that that property is basically just down the street a bit from the TTH?

If it is, I wonder if they'll remodel it into housing for some of these newly marrying people if JB's dream of a family compound returns with the Howler Husbands.  Hard to see what else anybody would want to use it for in that location, although I guess somebody could put their small business in there. 

I'm pretty sure the current Google street view of that location features a Howler using an edger or some such on the lawn. 😁

Edited by Churchhoney
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

10 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Perhaps the reason why the courtship didn't get publicity is because of that other thing that happened last year with Jed! that we're not supposed to talk about. Even though he still lost.

If the engagement happened before November, I'm thinking maybe you're right. Something about always having to allow equal air-time to both sides. TLC couldn't very well do that, nor would they want too.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

3 minutes ago, emma675 said:

How old is Jed!? This news seems to be coming out of nowhere, but I admit I don't pay much attention to him and his smug, punchable face. He and this Katey girl seem too look alike somehow. It's odd. The Reddit comments on this engagement are gold, though. 

Jed! turned 22 in December. 

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BitterApple

BitterApple

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

My cynical side is thinking this is all so the next time Jed! runs for office he has a wife and likely at least one kid. Boob may think it helps getting him votes. 

You literally took the words out of my mouth. I once read that Joe Kennedy Sr. pressured JFK to get married, noting that a well-bred wife was essential if he hoped to make a run for President. Circling back to Jed, something about his body language tells me this engagement is nothing more than ticking off a box. Maybe it's the smugness in his expression, but I'm surprised they're not wearing campaign buttons.

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beckie

beckie

(edited)
2 hours ago, FizzyPuff said:

There are pictures here of their engagement:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/m618mu/its_official_jed_is_engaged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Guess so. Now Jed will have a wife for when he decides to run again. I was more interested in the confirmation that TLC didn't film Justin and Claire's wedding.  

Edited by beckie
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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

43 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If the engagement happened before November, I'm thinking maybe you're right. Something about always having to allow equal air-time to both sides. TLC couldn't very well do that, nor would they want too.

That equal time thing was the FCC's "Fairness Doctrine" which hasn't been in effect since 1987.  If TLC avoided covering the Duggars' political activities it wasn't because they were obliged to also cover the "other side"-  whether it was a candidate for office or an issue on the ballot. I'm sure it's more to do with the scrubbed-up generic version of the Duggars' religious beliefs TLC chooses to show on its "reality" series, and IMO keeping away from their political activities also avoids stirring people up and causing trouble. 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

Just now, iwantcookies said:

Seriously? He looks 35! 

Are you sure, or is your perspective of what a groom today looks like influenced (skewed) by looking at the wedding of his teen brother who got married last week?   If we start blurring the lines between couples looking like they're ready for the homecoming dance and couples ready to head up the aisle, our perspective can get distorted. 

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

Holy crap! This is all so weird.  It can’t be le desperation for ratings because it’s not Jana. I think I’ll put five dollars on  full-term baby delivered four months after the wedding. 

Meanwhile, Jana  at every engagement party for some sibling that’s 10 years younger :

giphy.gif

 

Maybe Katy secretly visited Jed! in the bunk bed house . . .

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

That equal time thing was the FCC's "Fairness Doctrine" which hasn't been in effect since 1987.  If TLC avoided covering the Duggars' political activities it wasn't because they were obliged to also cover the "other side"-  whether it was a candidate for office or an issue on the ballot. I'm sure it's more to do with the scrubbed-up generic version of the Duggars' religious beliefs TLC chooses to show on its "reality" series, and IMO keeping away from their political activities also avoids stirring people up and causing trouble. 

Actually the "equal time" rule for candidates for office is still in force, although how it's to be applied is way less than clear.

When it comes to a political candidate being given air time to state their views or tell people how great they are, the equal-time rule does state that an opponent can (quickly) ask for equal time to present their views. (and the "quickly" is really quickly, so that in itself limits the number of times it gets used.) So today the equal-time rule mainly applies to ads that candidates buy for themselves -- and to some other programs, although which programs isn't clear until somebody tests it.

Tons of programs -- like Access Hollywood, for example -- have been given exemptions from the rule on the basis that they're essentially news programs reporting what's happening rather than just blatantly giving somebody free time to ask for your vote. Not clear whether anybody's ever asked about getting a  "reality tv" show an exemption. 

The Fairness Doctrine, on the other hand, didn't apply to individual people/candidates.

It required broadcasters to give equal time to different points of view on the same topic. And that one's long gone, entirely, of course, as you mentioned. We might be a smarter people if that one were ever revived. 

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Temperance

Temperance

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

If the engagement happened before November, I'm thinking maybe you're right. Something about always having to allow equal air-time to both sides. TLC couldn't very well do that, nor would they want too.

There's snow on the ground in the engagement photos, so the proposal was probably not in November. 

Both Jed! and Katey are 22. 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

(edited)
11 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 And to arguably one of the bigger loser Duggar sons. Maybe Jim Bob lined them up by hairline and then gets rid of the ones who are about the age out of passing for being in their 20s. 

Eh hem, in JB's eyes anyone is lucky to marry any of his progeny.   I don't see him recognizing the fact anyone could find anything less than ideal about a single one of them.

Edited by Tikichick
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I'm going with The 4 Bs -- Bunk Bed Biblical Betrothal. 

https://www.nakatsus.com/biblical-marriage/

https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/in-biblical-betrothal-couples-commit-to-marriage

If they never dated or courted, this thing could have -- and would have -- moved fast as heck. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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madpsych78

madpsych78

(edited)

Bunk Bed Jed was also coined on Without A Crystal Ball. 

Bunk Bed Jed and Katey: No longer sharing a bedroom with his twin

ETA: This is just randomness, but I suspect that Katey is tall and may be taller than Anna. She is only a few inches shorter than Jed who is one of the taller Duggar brothers.

Edited by madpsych78
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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Bunk Bed Jed was also coined on Without A Crystal Ball. 

Bunk Bed Jed and Katey: No longer sharing a bedroom with his twin

ETA: This is just randomness, but I suspect that Katey is tall and may be taller than Anna. She is only a few inches shorter than Jed who is one of the taller Duggar brothers.

She definitely has that Gothard hair! 

A079FEA4-AD33-45B9-B6F1-706BACF7C7D8.jpeg

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Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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