Star Trek: The Next Generation - General Discussion

[The Crazed Spruce]

A real lawyer judges the legal realism of the episode "Measure Of A Man".

[John Potts]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:20 PM, TVbitch said:

If he becomes an Indiana Jones type, I hope Vash doesn't show up!

I always liked Vash (and was quite surprised at the hate she seems to generate). She pushed Picard out of his comfort zone, which I enjoyed seeing. I don't think I'd want to see her every week, but as a reoccurring character like Q or K'Ehylar (RIP) I thought she was fine.

I'm sure if they want to justify an older Data (presumably B4) in the new Picard show, they could argue that one of the bugs in B4 that Soong hadn't yet worked out was that the synthetic skin tended to degrade over time.

[starri]

13 hours ago, John Potts said:

I'm sure if they want to justify an older Data (presumably B4) in the new Picard show, they could argue that one of the bugs in B4 that Soong hadn't yet worked out was that the synthetic skin tended to degrade over time.

If they want to spend a billion dollars, they could always de-age him digitally.

[VCRTracking]

For clarification, on Sunday Justin Bieber challenged Tom Cruise to a fight and now there are all these jokes about challenging celebrities 30 years older than them. This is my favorite:

It got this response to defend her honor:

[catlover79]

In the Retro TV's reruns of NBC's long-defunct soap opera, The Doctors, Jonathan Frakes was just killed off as Tom Carroll. He was on the show from June 1977 to March 1978. His girlfriend at the time was his onscreen wife, Lauren White (now a jazz singer and a producer on her husband Alex Gansa's show, Homeland). Here are some screen caps of the future Commander William T. Riker in his first major TV role:

[Trini]

Happy Picard Day!

[Hiyo]

Sad news.

https://intl.startrek.com/news/dc-fontana-1939-2019?fbclid=IwAR33lahi2_vgSI8i-rSsspTsTKWKJUUaDVu3Jr7EhSc4YrkuIbxVxesKV1s

[starri]

This has been a really rough couple of days. 

[Hiyo]

I always enjoyed the poker scenes on this show.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Hiyo

[VCRTracking]

The problem with most of the TNG movies is the same problem with the first two seasons. Because Roddenberry mandated no interpersonal conflict the stories were drama-free. The original series had the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic and conflict which gave even the worst written episodes its edge. What made the show finally get good was when Michael Piller came on in season 3 and made the focus on more character-centric stories. Each episode was from the POV of one character. "Yesterday's Enterprise" is a Guinan-story, "Best of Both Worlds" is a Riker story, "All Good Things" is a Picard story. You have a problem and the solving all rests on one character and their decisions and the other characters are as support in each episode. That's hard to do in the movies where you needed to have it be an ensemble and each actor wants a significant role and it creates a lack of focus. You're juggling so many storylines and characters. It's why First Contact is the best because it's focused mostly on Picard.

Edited January 25, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Hiyo]

Glad to see she has a sense of humor about it.

 

[starri]

When it comes to snarking on Troi, Marina is the best.  I saw her, Nana Visitor, and Terry Farrell on a "Star Trek and Feminism" panel at the big 50th anniversary convention.  A woman got up to ask a question of Marina, and mentioned that she'd gone into psychology because of Troi.

Marina looks at her and says "Oh, honey, I'm sorry."

[blueray]

I actually like the episode where Tori had to unexpectedly take over the bridge. I think I actually relate to that as I'm a Social Worker. If I suddenly had to command something, I wouldn't technical stuff either. I honestly would openly listen to my co-workers and use their strengths in the situation to our advantage and to work out the problems together.  They know way more then me so as a group we can hopefully solve the problem which of course they do in the show.  However, what the director (?) said to her is insulting. My in cannon explanation is yes she went to the academy however due to her major she didn't take the advance technology classes. And any she did take maybe she barely passed and had to study like heck for it. And like most of us that don't excel at science/ math forgot it the second we walked out of the test lol.  The Romlan thing from another episode, I do however remember coming out the left field and wasn't really consistent with her character.

[Bort]

The problem I had with that plot is that shouldn’t have happened. Specialty fields like psychologist and doctor would never be left in charge in that scenario because they don’t take those classes at the academy. Crusher would have because she took that supplementary class that Troi eventually ended up doing. But since she hadn’t yet done that, Ro should’ve been the one in command.

[vibeology]

The other issue is the writers in that episode used Troi as an exposition fairy and made her dumber than what reasonably made sense. The idea that Troi didn't know about the Emergency Bulkheads isolating the bridge? Total BS. Do they not do the 24th Century equivalent of fire drills on the Enterprise? She's been on the ship for years while Ro is maybe a month in. I cannot believe she wouldn't know that, except the writers need someone to ask and it can't be O'Brien so it's her. I'm fine with her not having warp engine expertise, but the writers did her character wrong for large parts of the episode.

[starri]

 

[mammaM]

Hay fever acting up so I was channel surfing (yes, I'm old) and came across the pilot episode and.....HOLY FORKING SHIRTBALLS (I'm also rewatching the good place😂).

Beardless Riker!!

Little Wesley!!

Q!!! Dressed like 1980's grace jones!!!

And Admiral "Bones" McCoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't rewatch the first season often and forgot he was in the pilot. And he was wearing a version of "his" uniform with the short pants, plus a cardigan with elbow patches and epaulets.  I laughed so much I scared my dog. 

Not sure if I can do it, but maybe I'll try watching the first season. It's been years

 

[Maverick]

The first two seasons are a tough rewatch.   Everyone's so stilted, they all say "sir" every third word and Riker really needs that beard.   Even Patrick Stewart and LeVar Burton, arguably the most experienced and best actors at the start of the series, need time to calm the eff down and settle into their characters.  And the less said about the plots the better.   I caught bits of Code of Honor and The Naked Now today.   O.  M.  G.   Just what the hell were they on?   And why is there a different chief engineer every damn week.   I will say Marina Sirtis gets the most improved actor award.   The difference between her Troi from the beginning of the show vs. the end is night and day.   

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

I caught bits of Code of Honor and The Naked Now today.   O.  M.  G.   Just what the hell were they on?   And why is there a different chief engineer every damn week. 

I'm pretty sure Naked Now was an old Phase II script repurposed for TNG.  Obviously it was a reference to TOS's Naked Time.  But since they were in syndication to start, they could get away with being a little more risque than the original did.  (Although the original did get in one great stealth joke from Uhura on the bridge while Sulu is in his musketeer delusion.  S: "I'll protect you, fair maiden."  U: "Sorry, neither."  I think I once heard that Nichelle ad-libbed that line, and it is a good one.)  There's no defending Code of Honor though.
 

As for the rotating chief engineer, there's a real-world reason, and my in-universe head-canon.  Real world reason is that Gene didn't originally want to re-invent Scotty.  The Engineering set wasn't even part of the original Farpoint script.  But while building the sets, Gene eventually decided to set a single scene in Engineering to justify building that set, just in case they decided they needed/wanted it after all.  But since there were no plans for a chief engineer as part of the regular cast, that got role was delegated to one-offs for the first season.

My head-canon is based on one fact that I believe was mentioned in Farpoint: the Galaxy-class ships (including the -D) were a new class of ships and had a new engine design.  So I've decided that the Enterprise, being the flagship, was tasked with training engineers on the operation of this new engine.  Every time we saw a new Chief Engineer in Season 1 meant that the previous one had been transferred to a new ship with this new engine, and the next Chief was preparing to do the same.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Not sure if I can do it, but maybe I'll try watching the first season. It's been years

What a brave soul you are. This show is one of my top 10 of all time, and even I avoid season 1 as much as I can.

Quote

The first two seasons are a tough rewatch.

True, but at least with season 2, you have a handful of really good episode scattered throughout. "A Matter of Honor", "The Measure of a Man", "Q Who", and "The Emissary" are all episodes I would recommend, and even "Time Squared" is watchable.

Quote

As for the rotating chief engineer, there's a real-world reason, and my in-universe head-canon.  Real world reason is that Gene didn't originally want to re-invent Scotty.  The Engineering set wasn't even part of the original Farpoint script.  But while building the sets, Gene eventually decided to set a single scene in Engineering to justify building that set, just in case they decided they needed/wanted it after all.  But since there were no plans for a chief engineer as part of the regular cast, that got role was delegated to one-offs for the first season.

I heard that too, as they just didn't want a chief engineer as a main character initially. I'm not sure how Geordi ended up with the job, but hey, it worked out for the best.

Quote

My head-canon is based on one fact that I believe was mentioned in Farpoint: the Galaxy-class ships (including the -D) were a new class of ships and had a new engine design.  So I've decided that the Enterprise, being the flagship, was tasked with training engineers on the operation of this new engine.  Every time we saw a new Chief Engineer in Season 1 meant that the previous one had been transferred to a new ship with this new engine, and the next Chief was preparing to do the same.

Good enough reason as any.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I like "Code of Honor" despite its racism and sexism. 

I have rewatched TNG in its entirety when I got the DVDs and once a couple years ago on Netflix. I had started another rewatch from the start about six months ago, where I left off somewhere in the middle of S2.

But given the plethora of other things to watch out there  (including the CBS Trek shows now that I broke down and got All Access), I may skip some of the more so-so episodes and focus on the good ones. Last night I watched Q Who and BOBW I and II again. 

[Anduin]

Pic of Sir Ian McKellan out and about. It's relevant, honest.

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[marinw]

OMG that's bad! Was this from the episode"Lessons"? IIRC, the Steller Cartography Lady Picard was dateing played the piano. They never showed her face and hands at the same time.

Edited June 7, 2020 by marinw

[VCRTracking]

53 minutes ago, marinw said:

OMG that's bad! Was this from the episode"Lessons"? IIRC, the Steller Cartography Lady Picard was dateing played the piano. They never showed her face and hands at the same time.

That's more common in TV and movies. When a character is playing the piano they show the actor's face and then they cut to the hands which of are if someone who can actually play. With Stewart though is the hands and head in the same shot and it's hilarious!

[marinw]

Does anybody remember what Worf did in seson one before replaceing Tasha Yar as the head of Security? I mostly remember him standing on the bridge saying things like "Permission to clean up the Bridge, sir."

Edited June 8, 2020 by marinw

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

Does anybody remember what Worf did in seson one before replaceing Tasha Yar as the head of Security? I mostly remember him standing on the brodge saying things like "Permission to clean up the Bridge, sir."

 Bridge officer, I think. One of the group of interchangeable people who mans the banks of blinking lights. 

[SVNBob]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

Does anybody remember what Worf did in seson one before replaceing Tasha Yar as the head of Security?

Same thing as after replacing Yar: living punching bag to show how strong certain aliens were.

See The Worf Effect on TVTropes.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Bridge officer, I think. One of the group of interchangeable people who mans the banks of blinking lights. 

Yeah, he was basically a relief officer for different stations on the bridge (he was seen at Conn a few times, I think), via Command division.

[SVNBob]

10 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, he was basically a relief officer for different stations on the bridge (he was seen at Conn a few times, I think), via Command division.

Memory Alpha concurs with your assessment.  After the Armus incident, he was made acting security chief until his transfer to Operations Division at the start of Season 2, which was when he was officially promoted to security chief and chief tactical officer.

[marinw]

Happy Captain Picard Day!

In celebration of this important holliday, here is an all too brief survey of Jean Luc's loungeware:

https://tv.avclub.com/captain-s-holiday-celebrate-picard-day-with-a-look-at-1844034252

Edited June 16, 2020 by marinw

[Hiyo]

Happy Captain Picard Day!

 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[Hiyo]

Well, this could be interesting...

https://ew.com/tv/star-trek-lower-decks-next-generation/

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[magdalene]

I have been re-watching  certain episodes to see how they hold up for me after many years. Today I watched "Elementary Dear Data" from season 2 and "Ship in a Bottle" from season 6.  Back in the day Moriarty was one of my favorite guest characters and I had a lot of fun watching these two episodes together now.

[Maverick]

While I always hated the concept that a slip of the tongue could generate a sentient being, I did like the Moriarty character.   

 I've been watching some early episodes and while seasons 1-2 have (many) problems, one thing I'll give them credit for is that episodes could have more of an edge in style and mood.    These two episodes are a perfect example.   In Elementary Dear Data, Moriarty comes off as a serious threat, the foggy London streets set a dark tone and it overall comes off as a noir piece.  By season 6, everything on the show was so neat and tidy that it loses a lot of its punch.   Adding Barclay gives it a little bit of a comedic/farce vibe.    I still like the episode, but it's just....different.    Lore is another example.   In Datalore, you can see why he was deactivated.    He terrorizes the crew with absolutely no remorse (he threatens to turn Wesley into a torch and literally phasers Beverly's arm).   In Descent, he's turned into some whackadoodle David Koresh knock off cult leader.  Even Data experimenting on Geordi and threatening to melt his brain doesn't have the same edge of Lore in season one.  

 The writers always complained about how Roddenberry's vision made it difficult to write interesting stories, but the reality is the show had much darker characters in the early seasons when he was still involved.   Lore, Q and the Borg were all more sinister characters in their earlier appearances and you also had characters like Armus and Nagilum.    They couldn't have pulled off anything that dark in the later seasons.   The closest was Schisms with the crew being secretly abducted and experimented on.  

[SVNBob]

2 minutes ago, Maverick said:

The writers always complained about how Roddenberry's vision made it difficult to write interesting stories, but the reality is the show had much darker characters in the early seasons when he was still involved.   Lore, Q and the Borg were all more sinister characters in their earlier appearances and you also had characters like Armus and Nagilum. 

I do note that all the "darker" characters you have listed were the antagonists.  Most of the complaints about writing "interesting stories" I heard revolved around the protagonists, meaning our main cast/Starfleet.  Those were the characters Gene was protecting; wanting them to always be paragons of virtue.  Antagonists acting in a darker manner was perfectly ok, since it allowed for the heroes to shine that much brighter.

That cringe-worthy line that Wesley has in the Season 1 episode Justice (with the planet of the practically naked blondes and blonds), "I'm with Starfleet. We don't lie."?  Gene truly believed that.  (That's why he had that line put in the mouth of his expy.)

[Maverick]

  just heard that a potential COVID vaccine works by stimulating T-Cell production.  Great, now we're all going to start devolving into spiders and lemurs.

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

  just heard that a potential COVID vaccine works by stimulating T-Cell production.  Great, now we're all going to start devolving into spiders and lemurs.

That might be a good thing.  Then we can re-evolve into a species closer to the humans of the 24th century than we are now.

[Maverick]

21 hours ago, SVNBob said:

That might be a good thing.  Then we can re-evolve into a species closer to the humans of the 24th century than we are now.

 Nah, we'd just re-evolve into salamanders. 

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Nah, we'd just re-evolve into salamanders. 

Gotta break the Warp 10 barrier (as well as the series barrier) for that to happen.

[Lugal]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:33 PM, Maverick said:

  just heard that a potential COVID vaccine works by stimulating T-Cell production.  Great, now we're all going to start devolving into spiders and lemurs.

With the way this year is going, that wouldn't be too shocking.

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[VCRTracking]

From The Hollywood Reporter, an article on the making of "Family"

The classic TNG episode Gene Roddenberry hated

[KatWay]

On 10/4/2020 at 4:17 PM, VCRTracking said:

From The Hollywood Reporter, an article on the making of "Family"

The classic TNG episode Gene Roddenberry hated

the idea that interpersonal conflict has no place in the 24th century is very odd. Even if Earth is a utopia of sorts at that point, people are still gonna fight about stuff, I don't see how that automatically prevents any sort of sibling issues. It was a good episode and it was great to finally see Star Trek acknowledge the trauma they often made characters go through with no real resolution. It made total sense for Picard to struggle post-Borg and Patrick acted the hell out of it.

[marinw]

1 hour ago, KatWay said:

It made total sense for Picard to struggle post-Borg and Patrick acted the hell out of it.

This. So glad Ron Moore held his ground. The Picard Vineyard has now become an important part of the TNG universe, particularaly in Star Trek: Picard

[schnauzergirl]

I just re-watched The First Duty and was reminded of something that's always bothered me.  The Kolvoord Starburst had been banned at Starfleet Academy for 100+ years, yet Nick Lucarno convinced Nova Squadron to perform it for Commencement.  Picard even talks about Nick graduating in a "blaze of glory."  Had they been successful, wouldn't there have been repercussions for doing a maneuver expressly forbidden?  Not something Admiral Brand would tolerate in my view.  Wesley did say Nova Squadron thought they could do anything, so maybe the team figured they were so god-like (as Boothby said) they'd get away with it.

[Maverick]

 Starfleet seems like a "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" organization.   Officers are always violating the Prime Directive yet never get drummed out of the Fleet.

[schnauzergirl]

10 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Starfleet seems like a "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" organization.   Officers are always violating the Prime Directive yet never get drummed out of the Fleet.

Good point, but I wouldn't think that would apply to cadets.  Overthinking, I know.