Fix The Show

[KimberStormer]

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

That was also the ep where Jeff blew his chances by jumping off the pole for peanut butter during the IC.  I also miss the temptations during the endurance challenges.  Why did they stop those? 

They just don't last long enough anymore, I think.  At some point they started making them harder so people drop out much faster.  If Tom and Ian really got permanent nerve damage from that final challenge then it would seem to make sense that they changed them, but on the other hand it didn't happen for a long time afterwards.  But gone are the days when the helicopter shot would say "Elapsed time 5 hrs 30 min"...I feel like it's an hour tops these days.  Sometimes they do the "elapsed time" and it's like 5 minutes and I wonder why did they do this, it's got to be shorter than a regular, physical challenge lasts.  I swear the house-of-cards challenge that Aubry won this season was shorter in real life than it was on TV...

[LadyChatts]

I looked it up, and that particular IC was 10 hours and 17 minutes.  There was lots of temptation (pizza, hot chocolate, peanut butter).  Elisabeth even negotiated her own end in the challenge by telling Jeff she wanted a boat ride in.

I never knew that Tom and Ian had nerve damage.  However, challenge design could be a factor in that.  It's actually quite comical nowadays when they show the elapsed time.  Although I suppose the only bright side to these challenges not being prolonged is not having to hear Jeff go on and on about "20 days, no food, no sleep, really starting to take its toll in this extreme heat..." for the duration of the challenges. He should just use a recording of himself, because even he can't be original.

Edited May 27, 2017 by LadyChatts

[NutMeg]

Each season, I find myself frustrated that when the game becomes REALLY intense and interesting, like when there are 6 people left, it's already the final episode and we see even less of the thought process, strategizing, etc. On the other hand, the first episodes are useful to get a feel of everyone, in particular in newbie seasons. So it's not like I want the beginning to speed up either. Ditto for around the merge. But it would be nice to have more time with the final 4, 5, 6, or whatever number of people are still there at the beginning of the finale. I'm all for speeding up the season by grouping two eliminations in one episode when there is a pagonging, for instance, or some other predictable pattern. But I would like either a longer finale, or one (or two) additional episode(s), [which would have been possible this season had it started at the usual time] or a different editing with less focus on characters that will be gone early, even if that means speeding up pre-merge, so that we have more time to really get into the dynamics, the decisions and where the players are at at the last two or three TC. Or, just fewer players, and a final episode that start with 4, so we are not cheated out of the all important votes at F6 and F5.   

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Or, just fewer players, and a final episode that start with 4, so we are not cheated out of the all important votes at F6 and F5.   

I think this is what they need to do. There doesn't need to be 20 players, Probst! And the finales starting with 6 people and having to go through 3 ICs and TCs before FTC is ridiculous.

[LadyChatts]

I miss seasons of 16 and finales of 4.  Sometimes less is more.  I think they figure the more people they cram in, the more opportunities for big moves and memorable moments.  At most they need 5 in the finale, and if it means double boots in eps so be it.  It worked for Cook Islands, and I think that was a pretty good season.  I still think it's one of the better Survivor seasons for challenges.  If they're going to re-use challenges, I wish they'd re-use those.

I got thinking about the new jury format, and as much as Probst may say that it was because of KR, I have to think MvsGX also played a role in how the new jury format played out.  Since Probst loved one season and the outcome and hated the other, of course he'll blame KR.  But the jurors are still talking at Ponderosa, which he claims influenced the KR jury to vote for Michele over Aubry.  I believe Adam pouring his heart out over his mom at TC may have made them worried people would use stories to get the votes in the end, and this format may help (sort of) stop that in it's tracks.  I do admit I kind of like it, though, as long as the contestants can answer the questions, one juror doesn't totally dominate, and Probst doesn't meddle.

Edited May 29, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Wings]

I definitely like the new jury question format.  I bet the crew responsible for creating challenges, love video games.  Something just smacks of that.   Still hoping some will involve brains and memory next season.  Those who plan the rewards are young athletes with huge appetites.  

Edited May 30, 2017 by wings707

[La Traviata]

They need to create some new challenges instead recycling the old ones.

[enlightenedbum]

There's a tradition of recycling challenges for returnee seasons, the problem is too many of those.

[ByaNose]

It used to be every 3 days someone would be voted out. With Game Changers and the Final 6 it was like everyday until the got to to the Final 3. Even by Survivor standards that's rushing things a bit. They should stick with 18 and let the chips fall where they may. If there's a medevac they still have a buffer with extra people. one World had 18, Philippines had 18,  Caramoan had 20, Blood vs Water had 20, Cagayan had 18, San Juan del Sur had 18, Worlds Apart had 18, Second Chances had 20, Koh Rong had 18, Millennials vs GenX had 20 and Game Changers had 20. I'm not sure what HHH is having. So they probably will never have 16 again but always 18-20. I guess 20 is the buffer they want.

[enlightenedbum]

Sadly the ratings probably aren't there to up the episode order so yeah cutting down on contestants is the best idea.  At least next season almost necessarily requires 18 with the three tribe set up.  That's a little better.

[LadyChatts]

9 hours ago, wings707 said:

I definitely like the new jury question format.  I bet the crew responsible for creating challenges, love video games.  Something just smacks of that.   Still hoping some will involve brains and memory next season.  Those who plan the rewards are young athletes with huge appetites.  

I want to see how it works with newbies before completely making up my mind.  I have to say that with so many jurors, I like that they don't have to take time up for all 11 of them or whatever the number is to asks questions (or give some long winded bitter Betty speech).

I'm also hoping there's a variety in challenges next year.  Not half endurance, half puzzles that are nearly the same puzzles they used all season.  I still wish they'd look to international versions for inspiration.  But is budget a factor?  I don't know how expensive better challenges would be to construct.  Maybe CBS and TPTB either don't want to make it too complicated, or don't care how fancy they are.

I want to see IRC going back to being one person winning, picking two people max to join them (but preferably one).  I think about Palau and the car challenge Ian won-the reward he promised to take Katie on, but then said he and Tom had a deal that they'd take each other if a car was involved.  Thus began his deteriorating relationship with Katie, and the beginning of the end for Ian's sanity in the game.  Yet, I miss those days of people being pissed off back at the beach, or an underdog alliance getting the chance to try and sway people to their side.  Now nearly everyone goes on the reward. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Daisy]

18 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I miss seasons of 16 and finales of 4.  Sometimes less is more.  I think they figure the more people they cram in, the more opportunities for big moves and memorable moments.  At most they need 5 in the finale, and if it means double boots in eps so be it.  It worked for Cook Islands, and I think that was a pretty good season.  I still think it's one of the better Survivor seasons for challenges.  If they're going to re-use challenges, I wish they'd re-use those.

I got thinking about the new jury format, and as much as Probst may say that it was because of KR, I have to think MvsGX also played a role in how the new jury format played out.  Since Probst loved one season and the outcome and hated the other, of course he'll blame KR.  But the jurors are still talking at Ponderosa, which he claims influenced the KR jury to vote for Michele over Aubry.  I believe Adam pouring his heart out over his mom at TC may have made them worried people would use stories to get the votes in the end, and this format may help (sort of) stop that in it's tracks.  I do admit I kind of like it, though, as long as the contestants can answer the questions, one juror doesn't totally dominate, and Probst doesn't meddle.

I think it went more people because Jeff said people just end up quitting (remember there was a stretch where there was like 1 medvac/quit per season). so if you have 20, you still have a dooable jury. I can't argue against that (though i am team 16/4). it's more poignant i think. 

 

with your other point - 
yes to seeing newbies do the new jury format. 
YES for ONE person winning rewards. when it's a team, it dilutes the point. (remember one person saying that he basically avoided winning the rewards because he didn't want to get in trouble)

Honestly i do think too - part of the issues is. rewards don't mean "Much" because of the group, but it's also due to the factor no one suffers. I know some people don't like it and I'm not talking Australia end-game suffering - but i mean, debates on how much scoops of rice to have? it's a thing. a discussion about who gets what from a plate of spaghetti and garlic bread is a thing. 

 

but when you're winning brownies, and picnics every time... why get mad? you can win next time. 

[sadiegirl1999]

I miss the "chopping block" challenges where you see the hierarchy of who's who, I miss the food auctions and the nasty food challenges (really! So gross. but so telling). I even kind of miss Exile Island! (the real one, not the fake Debbie one).

I miss the "trivia" challenges where they had to answer questions about the locale they were at.

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I miss the "chopping block" challenges where you see the hierarchy of who's who, I miss the food auctions and the nasty food challenges (really! So gross. but so telling). I even kind of miss Exile Island! (the real one, not the fake Debbie one).

I miss the "trivia" challenges where they had to answer questions about the locale they were at.

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

I miss the power order, too. You had to show your hand and people would get their feelings hurt. I guess it's too simple of a challenge because they haven't been seen in quite a while.

[enlightenedbum]

Quote

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

I believe that's the one that inspired Jason's maybe even dumber than the stick comment of "Ozzy's not the only godlike competitor out here."

[MissEwa]

9 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I miss the "chopping block" challenges where you see the hierarchy of who's who, I miss the food auctions and the nasty food challenges (really! So gross. but so telling). I even kind of miss Exile Island! (the real one, not the fake Debbie one).

I miss the "trivia" challenges where they had to answer questions about the locale they were at.

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

Yes to all of this, but I actually love that water-rising challenge. It's vaguely fear-factor-y and I get a little panicky watching it but for some reason I'm still a fan. I'm neutral on the local trivia challenges but would like more locally-themed challenges and rewards, and I guess at least trivia isn't as grossly reductive and cheesy as they can get. 

I do wonder what happened to Exile Island. I started watching in real time with Samoa which (I think?) is the first non-Exile season after it was introduced, but when I've gone back and watched seasons with an EI and I like what it can add to the game. Samoa was also when they started staying in the same spot for multiple seasons so I'm wondering if dropping it was a cost thing? 

[simplyme]

9 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

I'm pretty sure they've done that one in at least three seasons. I know they did it in Micronesia and Caramoan. I think they did it in Palau also. 

They really need new challenges.

[KimberStormer]

I love that challenge.  I believe it was first inaugurated in Palau.  My favorite was the Brenda/Andrea showdown in Caramoan, a highlight of a garbage season even though they didn't give Brenda a confessional even when she won.

[piequinn35]

Yeah if they are just recycling challenges, then bring back the chopping block even if it's simple it is not boring! also bring back the nasty food challenge and the effing AUCTION.

On 5/30/2017 at 11:23 AM, sadiegirl1999 said:

NOT my favorite but who remembers the one challenge where they were in the water and it kept rising?

It's called Last Gasp challenge.

[Kel Varnsen]

I also enjoyed the different variations of the remember a series of symbols challenges. Anything that mixes up so that it is not always physical/race challenges would be nice.

That said for pre-merge reward challenges a always liked the challenges that are basically sumo wrestling holding a pad. Bring back those and if you did it after a tribal swap you could really mess up some alliances.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Kel Varnsen

[Lamb18]

One thing to fix is the whispering during tribal council. I don't mind so much pre-jury, but once there's a jury, I think the jury should be able to hear everything that's being said. Jeff should manage that better instead of leaning back, smiling, and thinking "Cool!" I thought the point of having the jury be at tribal councils is to make their voting decision based on what they see and hear at tribal council.

[LadyChatts]

So in terms of challenges, I've been binge watching old seasons and it's gotten me nostalgic.  One of the Outback challenges was sort of like a puzzle, except there was more strategy involved than just putting pieces together (of the same old puzzle).  The castaways had to go, one at a time, and rope off sections of a course.  Once you formed a square you earned a point.  The only thing I didn't like was that if you earned a point, you go to go again, and Keith pretty much ran with the challenge as a result.  Still, it might have been more strategic if people still went, one at a time.  I also liked the boomerang challenge where they had throw one and get it as close to the center of a circle as possible.  I know other seasons have done variations of that (Borneo had a bow and arrow).  While not the most exciting, it's still a nice change of pace, and doesn't really rely on brains or brawn as much as it does just luck. 

[simplyme]

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

One of the Outback challenges was sort of like a puzzle, except there was more strategy involved than just putting pieces together (of the same old puzzle).  The castaways had to go, one at a time, and rope off sections of a course.  Once you formed a square you earned a point.  The only thing I didn't like was that if you earned a point, you go to go again, and Keith pretty much ran with the challenge as a result.  Still, it might have been more strategic if people still went, one at a time. 

One of the things I don't like about certain challenges is when the order the castaways go pretty much determines who will win unless they are completely inept.

I didn't see the Outback season, but I'm always a little leery of puzzles that are pure strategy because the order players go has such an effect on what it is possible for them to accomplish. One's ability to win is heavily dependent upon circumstance and other players, even if they make excellent strategic choices.

So if it's going to be something strategic, it generally shouldn't be turn-based IMO.

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I also enjoyed the different variations of the remember a series of symbols challenges. Anything that mixes up so that it is not always physical/race challenges would be nice.

That said for pre-merge reward challenges a always liked the challenges that are basically sumo wrestling holding a pad. Bring back those and if you did it after a tribal swap you could really mess up some alliances.

I always liked both of these.

[MissEwa]

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

So in terms of challenges, I've been binge watching old seasons and it's gotten me nostalgic.  One of the Outback challenges was sort of like a puzzle, except there was more strategy involved than just putting pieces together (of the same old puzzle).  The castaways had to go, one at a time, and rope off sections of a course.  Once you formed a square you earned a point.  The only thing I didn't like was that if you earned a point, you go to go again, and Keith pretty much ran with the challenge as a result.  Still, it might have been more strategic if people still went, one at a time.  I also liked the boomerang challenge where they had throw one and get it as close to the center of a circle as possible.  I know other seasons have done variations of that (Borneo had a bow and arrow).  While not the most exciting, it's still a nice change of pace, and doesn't really rely on brains or brawn as much as it does just luck. 

I remember this! It's the Survivor version of a game called Boxes we played a lot in class when I was a kid. The rule in the paper version is that if you get a box you get another go so one person usually does run away with it but there is a strategy involved in making sure that person is you. I'd love to see more game puzzles like that - like that one that Danni won (with her advantage) in Guatemala. 

[Oholibamah]

I rewatched Fiji a year or two ago and laughed when they played Battleship for an Immunity Challenge. I hadn't remembered that from the original broadcast. That said, it gave Stacy a win which probably wouldn't have happened otherwise, which is why I like these offbeat challenges. A season is more interesting when lots of players win challenges. 

[azshadowwalker]

Was it Pearl Island that had the one where you stand on the board, move, then flip a tile? When you can't move in any direction because you're surrounded by flipped tiles, you're out. I like that one, too. 

[simplyme]

2 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

Was it Pearl Island that had the one where you stand on the board, move, then flip a tile? When you can't move in any direction because you're surrounded by flipped tiles, you're out. I like that one, too. 

I know that was in South Pacific. It may have been in PI too and I just don't remember it. (I remember it from SP because everyone ganged up on one person to force them out.)

[enlightenedbum]

They've done that challenge a number of times.  It's definitely the one Dani bought an advantage for at the auction because the majority alliance was so very, very dumb, ultimately leading to her win.

[Daisy]

There are so many challenges that they can bring  back that they can def. re-use. I really don't know why they don't. even the simple ones. but I think they like the whole OH MY GOD YOU ARE SO BEHIND. OH MY GOD YOU JUST CAUGHT UP OH MY GOD WHAT A COME FROM BEHIND CHALLENGE, challenge. you don't get that with something like Thai 21, or Boxes, or the memory games or battleship. 

[LadyChatts]

And a lot of that is editing to begin with.  I'd like to know just how close some of those challenges really are.

[azshadowwalker]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

something like Thai 21, or Boxes, or the memory games or battleship. 

Just rewatched Thai 21, because I had forgotten it. Good challenge  (that Clay ultimately figured out, strangely), but can't be reused because of this:

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, azshadowwalker said:

Just rewatched Thai 21, because I had forgotten it. Good challenge  (that Clay ultimately figured out, strangely), but can't be reused because of this:

Actually, that's exactly the type of challenge I was referring to earlier that I hate and I don't think should ever be a Survivor challenge because if one person on a tribe knows the strategy and that tribe goes in the correct position, they may as well have flipped a coin.

As to how likely that is to happen, I never saw that season, but I know the strategy. That's an old bar game usually played with matchsticks (sometimes called Twenty-one). It's a form of Nim a mathematical game of strategy. People with puzzle or strategy backgrounds (and there's usually one or two per season) could quite easily be familiar with it.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, simplyme said:

People with puzzle or strategy backgrounds (and there's usually one or two per season) could quite easily be familiar with it.

 

But the same could be said for the slide puzzles and really just most of the puzzles they do.

I think they don't do the challenges we've been talking about anymore because they think they're boring TV. But all the puzzles and 'stand here and hold this ball' and even 'throw this ball into this net' challenges are boring as hell now, too. Just the fact that we haven't seen a lot of these other challenges in awhile would make them more exciting to watch.

[enlightenedbum]

Difference is even if you know the algorithm for solving slide puzzles there's some chance for someone else to beat you based on better manual dexterity.  In a Nim game, there's literally no chance.

[Daisy]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

But the same could be said for the slide puzzles and really just most of the puzzles they do.

I think they don't do the challenges we've been talking about anymore because they think they're boring TV. But all the puzzles and 'stand here and hold this ball' and even 'throw this ball into this net' challenges are boring as hell now, too. Just the fact that we haven't seen a lot of these other challenges in awhile would make them more exciting to watch.

That's very true. Honestly though I never thought the "stand here and hold." was boring because before you get iconic moments like T-Bird and Clarence doing Rock Paper Scissors (and Clarence getting booted), and all the deals that used to happen. that's why the Auction got so boring. Before you used to combine money or had people buy bites of food. then Jeff put all these rules in it and then it got based on the advantage so no one ate (plus now they feed them). 

I know a lot of people go they don't like them suffering - I'm mean. I want the suffering. (maybe not Australia suffering, that was really bad, but even then why were they so hungry? because Keith cooked up all the rice) But a small sack of rice, a small sack of beans, go fish, and then let the rewards be a bit of treat, not all these feasts. because then the auction has power. yes you're hungry, but you know there could be an advantage. what do you choose. The show is now removing most choices. 

I said this in I think the Grey's Anatomy thread: most hollywood writers tend to forget that we're human. you don't need to create all these hoops and angles and impossible storylines to create drama. We're plenty capable to develop it on our own. Just make it simple and realistic and the drama will happen. 

Why do a lot of people feel that the best seasons of Survivor are seasons 1 through 20 (honourable mentions between 20-30 of course). The editing was focused on camp and  challenges and tribal. Equal balance of all three. Some episodes focused more on the tribal  but because you knew for 3-4 episodes the tension around camp was going to come to ahead. some focused on the challenges because you knew so and so had to win. and of course camp. and I really miss that. and I personally feel a re-focus on that could really spark survivor to a revitalization I think it needs. 

Sue vs. Kelly, Alicia and the F'king Chickens & the Fingerwave, "I can eat a Worm! I CAN EAT A WORM!" the Rice Can Rescue... 
Old Skool vs PlaySkool and the showdown at Tribal Council
Rodger + Elizabeth/Neleh + Pappy's sweet relationship 
the Rise (and destruction) of the Rotu 4 and the 4 Horsemen 
Dre(Dreamz), YauMan and the Car. 
Cindy's Decision regarding the Cars. 
Black Widow Brigades and how that all formed. 
Chris's Revenge in Vanuatu 
Casaya Crazy. 

all of these things, and a lot of it was built around camp life. 
it wasn't just. here we came back from tribal. oh we talk about one little thing CHALLENGE TIME!! now we scramble TRIBAL TIME. 
Like i miss the little indicators "Rich is in the lead. Rudy is lost." even that i think can make the show a lot better. let me know the people. don't focus on a storyline (too much) just let it develop and then i can really care. 

[Special K]

I'm probably in the minority, but I dislike that the challenges now all seem like lesser versions of American Ninja Warrior.  What would it be like if the challenges were not all (or even mostly) physical?  If the physically fit weren't the most likely to prevail?  The Amazing Race is a very different show, I know, but it has tasks that require ingenuity, knowledge, cleverness, attention to detail, nerve, and other such abilities.  I guess the puzzles are supposed to do that, but they are always just tacked onto the end of an obstacle course these days.  I think the "dream team" has gotten lazy.

[simplyme]

22 minutes ago, Special K said:

I'm probably in the minority, but I dislike that the challenges now all seem like lesser versions of American Ninja Warrior.  What would it be like if the challenges were not all (or even mostly) physical?  If the physically fit weren't the most likely to prevail?  The Amazing Race is a very different show, I know, but it has tasks that require ingenuity, knowledge, cleverness, attention to detail, nerve, and other such abilities.  I guess the puzzles are supposed to do that, but they are always just tacked onto the end of an obstacle course these days.  I think the "dream team" has gotten lazy.

I feel the same. If you're going to make it a puzzle, make it a puzzle. If it's going to be physical, make it physical. Occasionally combining is fine, but every time is boring.

[Daisy]

52 minutes ago, Special K said:

I'm probably in the minority, but I dislike that the challenges now all seem like lesser versions of American Ninja Warrior.  What would it be like if the challenges were not all (or even mostly) physical?  If the physically fit weren't the most likely to prevail?  The Amazing Race is a very different show, I know, but it has tasks that require ingenuity, knowledge, cleverness, attention to detail, nerve, and other such abilities.  I guess the puzzles are supposed to do that, but they are always just tacked onto the end of an obstacle course these days.  I think the "dream team" has gotten lazy.

i like some of them. but the thing is, wasn't that usually near the end of the season. you had this huge exhausting maze  then a puzzle. 
that was exciting. 

Now it is dead boring. 

[FormerMod-a1]

Even if they switched the order and did a puzzle first to unlock the keys to an obstacle course, things would be different.  It wouldn't be that hard to change it up a little, imo.

[LadyChatts]

I wonder if it's staying in the same location that just makes it easier and cheaper to re-use challenges.  Or that they don't want to make it too hard on the castaways (despite the fact that there've been puzzle challenges that Jeff basically had to give them the answer to-and those challenges were hilarious as a result).  But they definitely need a change.  At the very least the challenges need to be more challenging. 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I wonder if it's staying in the same location that just makes it easier and cheaper to re-use challenges.  Or that they don't want to make it too hard on the castaways (despite the fact that there've been puzzle challenges that Jeff basically had to give them the answer to-and those challenges were hilarious as a result).  But they definitely need a change.  At the very least the challenges need to be more challenging. 

but they've been doubling on locations for ages, and there was still new challenges though. 

[peachmangosteen]

I really think it's mainly because they're just cheap and lazy.

[Special K]

I also think they regard these kinds of challenges as "good TV."  But even good TV gets boring when there's no variety!

It would also be nice for the challenges to cultivate and reward skills other than physical fitness and athleticism.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, Special K said:

I also think they regard these kinds of challenges as "good TV." 

 

Yep, that's the other part of it. It's probably like 50/50 cheap/lazy and 'this is good tv.' 

[azshadowwalker]

On 6/5/2017 at 6:44 PM, simplyme said:

Actually, that's exactly the type of challenge I was referring to earlier that I hate and I don't think should ever be a Survivor challenge because if one person on a tribe knows the strategy and that tribe goes in the correct position, they may as well have flipped a coin.

As to how likely that is to happen, I never saw that season, but I know the strategy. That's an old bar game usually played with matchsticks (sometimes called Twenty-one). It's a form of Nim a mathematical game of strategy. People with puzzle or strategy backgrounds (and there's usually one or two per season) could quite easily be familiar with it.

I see your point. I guess it only turned out to be an interesting challenge because the teams--especially Sook Jai, who should have won simply by winning the coin toss and electing to go first--didn't understand it.

[healthnut]

I'm watching HvV for the first time and it's very frustrating to watch the Heroes lose every immunity challenge with a puzzle and it got me thinking, there is a puzzle at the end of physical challenges way too much. For instance, the challenge from the past two seasons where they had to lift a tribemate up and get letters to solve a puzzle only to have everyone sit there for 45 minutes with no clue. It really negates the physical part of the challenge. I get that they want to even the playing field but I would like to see more challenges without puzzles at the end.

[LadyChatts]

I'd like to see more challenges without puzzles, period.  Or at least puzzles that are more complicated, and don't involve having to be knocked down by bean bags.

[303420]

Regarding the bloated cast: they could do 21, three tribes of 7, but BOTH losing teams in the IC go to Council. I haven't done the math, but that would seem to at least alleviate the problem, and the people who get short shrift would be early boots so who cares. 

[SVNBob]

New thought experiment:

There was a plan in place for the 30th season of Survivor that they eventually abandoned for Worlds Apart, but they took a couple of components and reused them for later seasons.   The entire plan can be read in this article: http://insidesurvivor.com/survivor-30-ghosts-the-returnee-season-that-almost-happened-28061 but there might be spoilers.

To sum up though for the spoilerphobic:

• 3 tribes of 10.  All players on second chance only, with no winners.
• Immediate tribal challenge at start; losing tribe is eliminated from game.
• Winning tribes can then swap out individual members for someone of same gender from eliminated group by unanimous vote.
• After two starting tribes are finally decided, the remaining 10 can opt to leave and go home, or go to "Ghost Island" where they may be able to earn their way back into the game.
• Shelter, rice, and basic supplies are on GI, but there will be no regular challenges.  On GI, the game is just Outlast.
• People on GI can still quit at any time.
• Game continues as normal for 2 remaining tribes.
• At merge, people on GI compete in an individual challenge.  Winner joins merged tribe.
• On Day 37, anyone still left on GI competes again in an individual challenge.  Winner enters game, losers finally fully eliminated (but not to the jury

 

Here's the experiment:  How would you tweak this setup?  What alterations would you make to this framework?

I'd add this to the reward challenges:  The winning tribe would be allowed to send a representative to GI to check things out and talk with people there, kind of like the plundering mechanic from Pearl Islands, minus the plundering.  That would allow for potential alliances to be built between the "living" and the "ghosts".

 

Edit: A second alteration.  The Day 37 challenge is a combined endurance immunity challenge for all players.  Last "ghost" standing still enters the game, but they still have to beat all the "living" players for immunity.  Otherwise, they're probably toast anyway.  Because who would want to sit next to someone with that underdog story at FTC?

Edited June 18, 2017 by SVNBob

[enlightenedbum]

I would not do it, because it is horrible.