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When Calls The Heart

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I've read various things comparing this to Lady Sybil and then Matthew dying on Downton Abbey.  The show weathered both of those people dying and led to character development.  Supposedly Jack's death is the same thing.  Well I don't buy that at all.  Both of the deaths on DA were total surprises whereas the whole Jack thing was drawn out for almost a year.  He kept leaving and then coming back for part of an episode.  To be honest,  would have been happier if Jack did die suddenly.  I understand that Daniel wanted out, but that doesn't mean that Hallmark couldn't have handled this differently.  I feel as if Hallmark abused my love of the show.  

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56 minutes ago, ShelleySue said:

I've read various things comparing this to Lady Sybil and then Matthew dying on Downton Abbey.  The show weathered both of those people dying and led to character development.  Supposedly Jack's death is the same thing.  Well I don't buy that at all.  Both of the deaths on DA were total surprises whereas the whole Jack thing was drawn out for almost a year.  He kept leaving and then coming back for part of an episode.  To be honest,  would have been happier if Jack did die suddenly.  I understand that Daniel wanted out, but that doesn't mean that Hallmark couldn't have handled this differently.  I feel as if Hallmark abused my love of the show.  

If I remember correctly, viewers were made aware that the actors playing Sybil and Matthew wanted to leave the show.   I think that's where Hallmark failed.  Daniel's leaving should have been announced in advance.  I would have preferred that he didn't return from his assignment last season and they not marry than have him knocked off a couple of weeks after the wedding.   Have the finale on DVR, but don't plan to watch the episode.  I'm out.

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17  minutes into the podcast on Hallmark and I am not impressed with the excuses and the justifications---I miss a lot because my computer keeps freezing but really it sounds like "this is how we are going to explain" I have been here before with other shows-----I am not too interested without the mountie--Elizabeth facing life on her own with her pals just not anything I care much about---pretty sure I am out and I have not watched the last several episodes anyway---also a little too much forced laughter and apologizing

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I was also under the impression that women were scarce in the frontier towns.  Men should be outnumbering the women by a lot.

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It's too bad Daniel took on a show not realizing he wouldn't stay for the entire run if it was successful.  Other actors would love to be in his shoes.  A few actors left successful roles because the grass looked greener  but didn't get far after ditching a successful role. I wonder if the mystery about his role the last two seasons was because there were ongoing negotiations with Hallmark behind the scenes trying to figure out a way to get him to stay on the show.

I caught the last half of the season finale. I agree with the comments about Elizabeth's wig. It is distracting.  I still find the show much too modern. Perhaps it would help if they brought more facts to the show about what was happening in 1915, if that is the time frame, and have someone review scripts to eliminate modern language and actions. They could bring out more about the times through school assignments.  That won't help the story lines as I expect Elizabeth will continue to teach in spite of the reality of the times.

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The bob was just starting to come into style in 1915 but especially the '20s.  They should've scrapped the wig and had Elizabeth come back from Hamilton with a shorter but not quite bob haircut.  That wig has got to go.  

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The cast and show creators seem rather spooked that Daniel's departure is going to tank their viewership.  "Please stick with us, "Hearties." We need you more than ever.  Keep watching.  Join our Facebook Live event.  PLEASE"  I know it's not their fault that Daniel decided to leave, but I wish they would have locked him into a longer contract to begin with.  Actually, instead of Jack dying, I would have preferred that they just ended the show this season.  We could have ended on a high note with the wedding and baby announcement...but NO! 

It's not at all fair, but I feel a sort of bitterness towards actors/actresses in lead roles (like Daniel Lissing) who stick around for four, five, six seasons and then decide to bail.  Like thanks, you just ruined the show for me.  I mean, going into this, he had to have known that he was one half of the main couple and Jack and Elizabeth's romance was ultimate end game.  Right?!  Ugh, I'm annoyed.       

I wasn't a fan of the finale.  It was a depressing episode of old Jack clips mixed with a short bout of Elizabeth grieving before she moved on (got to introduce that new love interest next season).  And Elizabeth got Jack's horse, but what the hell happened to his dog?  Poor thing just completely disappeared.     

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I guess I hardly care that Lissing is leaving.  He was barely on the show the last couple of seasons, almost always away anyway.  It won't really change much, except that Elizabeth is pregnant so she'll be a single mom like everyone else on the show.  And now they can bring on other guys as potential love interests for her, maybe someone that can actually be there with her.  This is the frontier - there should be, like, 12 guys for every single woman, so it's really surprising to me that there are all these single women on the show.

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I'm going to keep watching the show.  I didn't really miss Jack when he was gone and I found his relationship with Elizabeth to be beyond cheesy.  Elizabeth was also way too damsel in distress around him.  I prefer the characters such as Rosemary, Lee, Henry and Abigail anyway. I think it will be interesting to see her be a single mom and what new love interests may come around.  However, if the show ends with season 6 I would suspect that Jack makes a miraculous return from the dead so he and Elizabeth get their happy ending.  Like Lori said, if people stop watching and the show gets cancelled, a lot of people will lose their jobs.  It's not their fault Daniel wanted to leave.

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To be honest, I haven’t missed Jack that much since he was gone. The show has become such an ensemble that I haven’t noticed his absence that much. 

I am glad that if they had to kill off Jack they that Elizabeth ended up pregnant. 

Speaking of babies, am I the only one surprised that Rosemary hasn’t gotten pregnant yet?

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8 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

am I the only one surprised that Rosemary hasn’t gotten pregnant yet?

I read somewhere that since Pascale was pregnant in real life for most of Season Two and they had to shoot around her belly, that she asked the show not to have Rosemary get pregnant too soon.  I think Kavan would play a doting daddy to perfection.  He's my favorite Hallmark actor and I only caught on to this show when I realized he was on it.

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18 hours ago, TVFANATICA2000 said:

Like Lori said, if people stop watching and the show gets cancelled, a lot of people will lose their jobs.

That's show biz. If a show that was originally good goes bad, it should be cancelled. I could barely watch it as it is. It happens every season to shows better than this one and that's not my problem. At any rate, Hallmark has such a stable of actors and soggy scripts, they'll all get new movies du jour and holiday specials soon enough.

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She wasn't talking about the actors.  The actors will be fine.  There are a large number of people that will be out of work especially the crew.  They don't make near the amount of money the actors make.

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I just watched the episode. I must say, Lori Loughlin’s parental guidance warning before it started (that parents should watch before they let their kids see it) unfairly raised my hopes for a Zombie Mountie Apocalypse in Hope Valley. 

The wig is seriously, seriously awful. I probably won’t even hate-watch any more next season, but for the remaining viewers’ sakes I hope they fix the hair problem. Also, a frontier town run by women is believable considering all the husbands who died in the mine disaster. I just wish they’d remember there’s a war on if this show is actually supposed to be set in 1915! That is driving me crazier than the wardrobe/makeup issues!

Edited by sharifa70
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15 hours ago, Stuffy said:

She wasn't talking about the actors.  The actors will be fine.  There are a large number of people that will be out of work especially the crew.  They don't make near the amount of money the actors make.

Cheap shots, emotional blackmail. Still doesn't mean I have to watch a sub par show. I'm sure the crew is aware it's a pile. Don't know the laws about filming in Canada, but most crew members are Union. I'm including them in the movies du jour, too. They'll be fine, if they haven't moved on already. None of the cast nor crew would care if you or I or our loved ones lost their jobs or our companies went belly up.

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I guess I don’t take tv shows that seriously. I never get that upset. I just quit watching and move on. No point in wallowing in anger.

I do care about people though. Whether or not they care about me losing my job is irrelevant to me. I don’t want the crew to lose theirs. 

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I don't get that upset at TV shows anymore either, but even I have to admit that was a rather crappy way to end things.  I knew something was up when DL disappeared for the last 4 or 5 episodes last season and then had spotty attendance this season so I wasn't the least bit surprised at Jack's demise, but I will say that my 74 year-old mom (who isn't the least bit TV savvy) was devastated.  They really should have just written him off back in S4 rather than making the audience play the will-he-or-won't-he game each episode and taunting them with promos touting the happy union between Jack and Elizabeth during every commercial break.  That built up a certain expectation with the audience that (rather cruelly) got ripped away only 2 episodes post-wedding.  I get that this happens all the time in TV land (ala Game of Thrones), but not usually on a network like Hallmark where people flock to find the happy.  I understand why some people are feeling manipulated.

If the show ends up being cancelled, I can't cry in my soup about the crew.  Most of them move from one show right to another in no time.  Vancouver is a Hollywood-lite these days.  There are new shows popping up there all the time.  I'm pretty sure the entire CW network roster of shows film there.  The crew members would be just fine.

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I think they probably should've killed Jack off at the end of season 4 too.  Stringing viewers along for 2 years was ridiculous.  Even more odd is Dan admitting that he doesn't have any projects lined up.  Perhaps he's planning to leave the business all together?  Most actors would want a steady paycheck, but apparently he didn't care, it's just a job.

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I either think they should have killed Jack off at the end of season four or have Jack and Elizabeth get married during season four. Then Jack and Elizabeth could have had some time being married in season five before they killed Jack off. I am fine with Dan leaving, but think the whole Jack/Elizabeth storyline was horribly mismanaged once they knew that Dan was leaving or wanted out. 

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I don't think that the greatest problem in this show is too modern clothes and hairstryles, but that the problems are solved far too easily, so there are now real suspense. The drama needs contradictions which are born when people have different aims.

Henry should have remained a "bad" person!  

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Since this show tends to be somewhat soapy, there are lots of possibilities to get around the Jack is dead storyline.  They could do something like Raggedy Man, that old movie with Sissy Spacek, and have him come back disfigured or maimed or something.  We didn't see the body, which leaves the door open for Jack to come back somehow if Daniel Lissing ever regrets his decision to leave the show.  I'm not crushed that Jack is gone, but given the way the character left the show, the doors are at least cracked open a little for other options for him to come back, even if the role were to be recast.  I wouldn't love that, but I don't think it would be any less realistic than some of the other stuff we've accepted on the show.

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17 hours ago, magpye29 said:

Since this show tends to be somewhat soapy, there are lots of possibilities to get around the Jack is dead storyline.  They could do something like Raggedy Man, that old movie with Sissy Spacek, and have him come back disfigured or maimed or something.  We didn't see the body, which leaves the door open for Jack to come back somehow if Daniel Lissing ever regrets his decision to leave the show.  I'm not crushed that Jack is gone, but given the way the character left the show, the doors are at least cracked open a little for other options for him to come back, even if the role were to be recast.  I wouldn't love that, but I don't think it would be any less realistic than some of the other stuff we've accepted on the show.

Although the show began after several women had lost their husband in the mining accident, it has since then had a tendency to turn every problem and disaster to a happy end showing quite unrealistically how good and helpful people in Hope Valley are.   

That just the heroine becomes a widow after a short marriage doesn't fit to this show at all (although it didn't really shock me). So I guess they invent a some way to get Jack back. It shouldn't be impossible to DL to be at least in the final episode of S6. 

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I lost confidence in Carson's abilities as a doctor. He never asked Elizabeth how long she had last time had her period, although that would be self-evident to any married woman (and also unmarried women with such symtoms). 

Instead, Abigail made her conclusion without asking the vital question. OK, they were prudish at that time irl, but if they are modern in other matters, why can't they be in this one, too?   

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1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

I lost confidence in Carson's abilities as a doctor. He never asked Elizabeth how long she had last time had her period, although that would be self-evident to any married woman (and also unmarried women with such symtoms). 

Instead, Abigail made her conclusion without asking the vital question. OK, they were prudish at that time irl, but if they are modern in other matters, why can't they be in this one, too?   

Maybe Carson couldn’t tell because he’s a brain surgeon now. Hey, that makes as much sense as “The smell of coffee makes you queasy, ergo you’re pregnant!”

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I wondered also why Elizabeth didn't use mourning well and how quickly her abandoned her black dress. Wasn't there strict habits about mourning at that time?

Besides too modern custumes and hairstyles that are discussed earlier, I wonder especially not wearing a hat that was obligary for a respectable person going out. Even in the church women have no hats although St Paul said that women should cover her head when praying, but men shouldn't. 

I am also amazed that Lee often stays sitting when Rosemary comes to his office whereas Abigail who is both a woman and a mayor rises to greet a man. Wasn't it just the opposite: a man (or a person of lower standing) rises to honor a woman (or a person of higher stanfing) but a woman (or a person of higher stanging) greets a man (or a person of lower standing) sitting? 

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When Elizabeth taught her pupils languages, why on earth did she chose Latin that nobody speaks any more? Realistically, many parents of her pupils were immigrants who spoke languages of their native countries.

And how can all inhabitants of Hope Valley belong to the same church? Even in novels of L.M. Montgomery there were disputes whether a person could marry someone who belonged to a different church. Or a person who voted a different a party.

Speaking of that, many immigrants were politically radical, but in Hope Valley Lee and his workers are "same family". 

That's not the only reason I miss Henry's wicked methods as his machinations gave the show at least some suspence that it now completely lacks. 

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:22 AM, Roseanna said:

When Elizabeth taught her pupils languages, why on earth did she chose Latin that nobody speaks any more? Realistically, many parents of her pupils were immigrants who spoke languages of their native countries.

And how can all inhabitants of Hope Valley belong to the same church? Even in novels of L.M. Montgomery there were disputes whether a person could marry someone who belonged to a different church. Or a person who voted a different a party.

Speaking of that, many immigrants were politically radical, but in Hope Valley Lee and his workers are "same family". 

That's not the only reason I miss Henry's wicked methods as his machinations gave the show at least some suspence that it now completely lacks. 

Actually most education back then included Latin. My father  who was in school at the time this story was set learned Latin. It was considered an important part of a good education back then. I  even learned it in HS back in the 60's. So many English words are based on Latin it still helps me today.

As to church, I don't think such a small town could afford to build a lot of different denominational churches even though without a doubt there were many different faiths present. Politics too...well, this is a Hallmark show. Doubt they'd show too much of the upper/lower class issues although they did touch on it with Elizabeth's upper class family earlier on and Mountie Jack.

I keep telling myself...it's a Hallmark production- which is not exactly known for its gritty realism. ;-)

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12 hours ago, RedRockRosie said:

Actually most education back then included Latin. My father  who was in school at the time this story was set learned Latin. It was considered an important part of a good education back then. I  even learned it in HS back in the 60's. So many English words are based on Latin it still helps me today.

In a primary school? It seems old-fashioned in the beginning of the 20the century even in a secondary school where learning German and French was much more useful in technology, commerce, literature and art. Elizabeth's teaching methods are presented otherwise even too advanced.

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8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

In a primary school? It seems old-fashioned in the beginning of the 20the century even in a secondary school where learning German and French was much more useful in technology, commerce, literature and art. Elizabeth's teaching methods are presented otherwise even too advanced.

I had Latin my freshman year of high school in 1984-85. It was less about its use in conversational everyday life than about giving us some foundation in the bureaucratic side of the English language. I still find it useful.

I can’t speak to whether her methods are too advanced for the time, though: I feel like Anne Shirley, a near-contemporary of Elizabeth’s in the Anne of Green Gables series, had some progressive teachers and was one herself. I might be conflating the books with the Megan Follows tv series - I might have to re-read the books to sort it out.

Edited by sharifa70

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3 hours ago, sharifa70 said:

I had Latin my freshman year of high school in 1984-85. It was less about its use in conversational everyday life than about giving us some foundation in the bureaucratic side of the English language. I still find it useful.

I had to study some Latin in high school and the only use I ever had from it that the beginnings of it was demanded in the university for MA. It would have been more useful for me to learn the fourth modern language.

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8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I had to study some Latin in high school and the only use I ever had from it that the beginnings of it was demanded in the university for MA. It would have been more useful for me to learn the fourth modern language.

I think we’ll just have to agree that when it comes to Latin, YMMV regarding its continued usefulness. But as a course in a turn-of-the-century classroom in a town big enough to have a proper dressmaker, a restaurant, and a railway station coming, its inclusion probably isn’t as out there as it might seem on first glance.

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12 hours ago, sharifa70 said:

But as a course in a turn-of-the-century classroom in a town big enough to have a proper dressmaker, a restaurant, and a railway station coming, its inclusion probably isn’t as out there as it might seem on first glance.

I think that it's odd also generally: there are so few children that they are taught together despite of different age and abilities. Part of pupils should silently write or draw when the others are taught.     

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1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

I think that it's odd also generally: there are so few children that they are taught together despite of different age and abilities. Part of pupils should silently write or draw when the others are taught.     

I agree, based solely on my”Little House on the Prairie” reading. 

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Does ANYONE know when Season 5 will be released on Netflix? My wife and I have been watching and finished Season 4 last month. I know they've wrapped production on Season 5. My poor wife keeps checking Netflix every week (we don't have the Hallmark Channel) and is dying for Season 5 to be released. 

Any info? Thanks!!

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Casting for next season: When Calls The Heart’: Chris McNally & Kevin McGarry Cast In Hallmark Channel Drama

"McNally will play Lucas Bouchard, a charming gambler and saloon owner who is hiding more than a card up his sleeve. McGarry is Nathan Grant, the epitome of the strong, silent type and takes all his responsibilities to heart as the new Mountie in town."

Hmm. Wonder if Elizabeth will wind up with new Mountie? Don't really care, I'm pretty much done with this series anyway.

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It's unlikely they'll release it on Netflix until Season 6, which I believe airs in Feb. 2019. 

 

 

What has happened to Pastor Frank?  I'm about halfway through season 5 and they have not even mentioned him at all. I hope they're not angling for Bill/Abigail..... Pastor Frank was actually a lovely character.  Season 5 is really inane compared to the sweet and innocent nature of S1. Really wish hallmark would just allow the story to be played as it deserves... 

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It’s disappointing that DL has left the show, but since he was missing so much it’s like it hardly matters to me. I enjoyed the chemistry between Elizabeth and Jack, especially in the earlier seasons. The predictable pregnancy was typical Halmark. Let me guess. It’ll be a boy and Elizabeth will name him Jack! 

The wig needs to go! She could cut her hair in grief...

Schooling: no way would ALL the children be learning the same lesson. Perhaps having Elizabeth working with smaller groups on age appropriate lessons. 

Cody: Can’t stand the kid! He’s obnoxious, not cute.

Costumes and Set: 1) Colours too bright. 2) Hairstyles are too modern. 3) Even is Season 1 when the kids are making lunches, oranges were not available in the frontier or were crazy expensive! 

WW1: Canada went to war in 1914. Why hasn’t this been mentioned?

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After killing off Jack, I know I won't be watching the show.

I know that it was DL's decision to leave and I read somewhere that Hallmark and the show runners knew about it a year and a half prior his last episode, which makes it probably around the time they were filming season 4, and may be that's why he missed the second half of the season too. But even in season 3, especially in the first few episodes of it, he had limited screen time (compared to seasons 1 and 2) with all the knew characters popping up out of no where. May be he wanted more screen time, may be he didn't like that his name in the credits went from the second spot to the next to the last one after 'with', which  I know shouldn't be a problem since they say that that spot is as important as the second spot, but still. Or may be his personal reason's that aren't even work related, and he just doesn't want to talk about it.

As for Lori Loughlin's statement that the crew could lose their jobs if the show gets canceled because of his departure, one can also argue that they kept their jobs for five years because of him or because of the Jack/Elizabeth pairing.

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On 7/11/2018 at 9:40 PM, Ms Lark said:

Hmm. Wonder if Elizabeth will wind up with new Mountie? Don't really care, I'm pretty much done with this series anyway.

I think it is too soon for her to fall in love. The writers should at least wait 2 seasons since her love for Jack was that great. And when she is ready, it would be too stupid to allow herself to fall for a Mountie again, since Jack being a Mountie was always an issue for her. She was always worried she would loose him. She even pointed out once that it was the real reason behind them being apart and not them coming from different backgrounds or upbringings.

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I originally thought there was a dispute with Hallmark and that is why Daniel left, but here we are at Countdown to Christmas, and he is in another Hallmark Christmas movie. So, what was the problem that he had to leave When Calls the Heart? Obviously it was not Hallmark. And my last question is - if he is in a movie, not a series, why can't he talk in his native tongue - you know, Australian? He is much cuter when he has the accent!

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On 11/3/2018 at 3:59 AM, lora said:

 may be he didn't like that his name in the credits went from the second spot to the next to the last one after 'with', which  I know shouldn't be a problem since they say that that spot is as important as the second spot, but still.

That's very interesting, I didn't realize his credit changed.  Do you remember which season?  That wouldn't be something he didn't like, that's a perk and would have been negotiated.  Now I'm really curious between which seasons it was changed.

2 hours ago, jlc said:

I originally thought there was a dispute with Hallmark and that is why Daniel left, but here we are at Countdown to Christmas, and he is in another Hallmark Christmas movie. So, what was the problem that he had to leave When Calls the Heart? Obviously it was not Hallmark. And my last question is - if he is in a movie, not a series, why can't he talk in his native tongue - you know, Australian? He is much cuter when he has the accent!

I suspect it's something as simple as he didn't want to be tied down and Hallmark didn't sign him to a long term contract to start with.  Since he went part time in S4, my guess is his initial contract may have been for no more than 3 seasons and they got him to agree to part time for 2 more so they could wrap up (aka drag out) Jack and Elizabeth's story. 

I agree his accent is adorable.  I think only royalty gets accents on Hallmark though, so they need to toss the next royal movie his way.

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4 hours ago, JenMD said:

That's very interesting, I didn't realize his credit changed.  Do you remember which season?  That wouldn't be something he didn't like, that's a perk and would have been negotiated.  Now I'm really curious between which seasons it was changed.

It was in season two. His and Lori Loughlin's name were moved to the end after 'with' and 'and'.

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Thanks, @lora, very interesting.  I wonder if Hallmark actually just signed everybody for one season, initially.  Strange.

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15 hours ago, JenMD said:

Thanks, @lora, very interesting.  I wonder if Hallmark actually just signed everybody for one season, initially.  Strange.

You are welcome.

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After killing off Jack I'm no longer watching the show, the whole show was Elizabeth and Jack and all the rest was too campy and boring for me to watch. However just seeing a new add for a Christmas movie staring the actor that played Jack (Daniel), I just have to add a comment.  

When Calls the Heart became a vanity piece for the actress that plays Abigail (Lori), I had read an article (which I tried to find but could not) that was an interview with Daniel and he said that story lines were being created by the actors and that the idea for the orphan (Cody) was Lori's. Then he says something about how he is trying to add some things but he was unclear about what he was suggesting.

So when Lori said something to the affect that "they gave us everything we wanted", she actually meant it. She actually thinks that she is the show, that the only reason people watch is because of her and by proxy Erin are on the show. Dan was written off the show and now it seems with the promise of another Hallmark show he could star in. Dan had no "personal" reasons to leave, this was a business decision made by the producers of this show. If you have the stomach to do so (which I can honestly say I can't anymore), you can read how Lori is saying in interviews that the ratings for the last show (which I did not watch) were sky high and how much the fans loved it and how we can all grieve together and then move on to a show all about her and Elizabeth.

This was a calculated move to make Lori front and center and I'm still so upset with myself for buying into this ridiculous but endearing show. For 5 seasons, all the marketing was Jack and Elizabeth, I fast forwarded past all scenes except with J&E. Even the scenes when she is writing letters to Jack were awesome. He did not need to be on the screen for his presents to be felt. Now he is dead and so is this show to me. I can't bear to even look at pictures from this show, or even watch any show with these actors. I'm just so sad about it.

But Fanfiction is helping me cope and to me these characters live for many years after the beautiful wedding, with 4 kids in a country house and they lived happily ever after!

Edited by free2think · Reason: spelling error
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On 11/13/2018 at 6:05 PM, free2think said:

When Calls the Heart became a vanity piece for the actress that plays Abigail (Lori),

 

On 11/13/2018 at 6:05 PM, free2think said:

So when Lori said something to the affect that "they gave us everything we wanted", she actually meant it. She actually thinks that she is the show,

I couldn't agree more.

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Also, many people keeps bringing up "the moonlighting" effect where if the characters get together the show dives. This article states exactly how I feel about that phenomenon as a viewer of the show. I'm so disappointed that the writers of "When calls the heart" could not rise above the politics Lori and co. brought. 

Many current shows have not let the fans down, regarding characters pairing, and have gone on for years after.

The last line of this article explains exactly how many of us feel: 

"As a writer, your first and only priority should be to the characters you’ve created and the relationships you’ve nurtured, not the conflict that drives them apart or the shock of an unexpected ending. Anything else is not only a disservice to the integrity of your show but to the fans, whose viewership and investment are what keeps it on the air."

I would have watched this show forever as long as E & J were together, happy endings and sappiness not withstanding.

These are just a few examples of something that has become more common in ... https://www.truthbeetoldmedia.com/article/2018/8/29/fear-of-moonlighting-the-consequences-of-refusing-to-commit

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I read an interview with jack Wagner and it made it sound like Lissing wanted to leave so he could grow beyond jack Thornton. But other than ten minutes in swat he hasn’t done anything else. You think he would stay at least until he got more gigs? Guess he doesn’t need the money. 

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