S04.E16: All It Cost Her...

[PinkRibbons]

SERIES FINALE

NOTE: Reign airs on Thursdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Friday night to view the new episode.

Quote

In the series finale, Mary changes the course of history with a decision she makes, and her perilous move for survival causes her to have a stunning realization. Meanwhile, Elizabeth steadies herself for war and becomes the instigator in Mary's demise.

 

[LoveTheGame]

Hmmmm, really wondering how this is all going to end now. 

Especially with:

"Meanwhile, Elizabeth steadies herself for war and becomes the instigator in Mary's demise."

Are they going to say true to history as best they can?

[Artsda]

I was not expecting Francis scenes ( new scenes not flashbacks ). That was a great way to not end the show on a depressing note, showing Francis waiting for her and the flashbacks of all the seasons weaved into the afterlife of them. I loved that part. Until that part the show didn't feel like a series finale. 

Everyone else's ending was more blah.

The odd 3-way.

Catherine's last scene is just her going to her other daughter. 

Last scene of Charles and Henry is just them plotting and Narcisse around.

Greer was just around. I assume she gets with James. 

Claud? She ends with being alone and Luke somewhere else.

Nobody got any closure of an ending except for Mary. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Artsda

[PinkRibbons]

You know, considering the very little time they had in which to spin it all out, I was surprisingly okay with this ending. I finally see why they spent so much time on The Darnley Problem this season instead of just killing him and showing the abdication, marriage to Bothwell, etc: the whole point of the show was showing Mary as a young woman, before she lost everything, and I guess they decided that Darnley's death was the exact moment all was lost. And that's I think a fair interpretation.

All of today I was thinking how I'd love for this to go "it was all a dream" which I know most people hate, but I got a kick out of thinking of Adelaide Kane in modern-day dress waking upon a pile of books about history and fashion magazines and The Vampire Diaries playing in the background on a TV. And the last shot of the show being something like this picture in a close up of a book she was reading before she and her crew (Greer, Kenna, Lola, Aylee, Francis, Bash, even Catherine as her mother waving her out the door) go out partying:

 

But honestly my more rational hope against hope was to show her in the afterlife with Francis, and that's exactly what they gave us, so that makes me happy. I really hope Toby and Adelaide work together again; they had some amazing chemistry. Like, crazy strong.

The only loose end that really bothered me was Claude and Luc, but I strongly suspect there's a deleted scene there, which I will be looking for on DVD.

I liked the actress playing Emmanuelle, she reminded me of Natalie Dormer. Don't know what the hell was going on with her and her devil-y 3-way, but whatever. I do wish that Margot had been mentioned more before now. Her last minute appearance made me almost feel like she was spin-off fodder.

My best wishes to the actors in their future endeavors; they elevated some truly awful material at times, and they did just to the good.

Edited June 16, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[waving feather]

I don't know how Toby and Adelaide can look at each other with SO MUCH LOVE, without actually being in love in person. I know, ACTING and all that but their chemistry is just amazing. It's nice how they wrapped it up with Mary coming home to Francis (I may have teared up when she told Francis how difficult it has been and he comforted her). In this show, Mary only ever loved Francis; the rest are just flings.

Edited June 16, 2017 by waving feather

[Rachel RSL]

I had no clue this was the series finale until they jumped ahead 21 years. I knew that Mary ended up Elizabeth's prisoner for decades but I'm fuzzy on the details of how it all went down so I'm a little bummed we don't get one more season. Wikipedia will have to refresh my memory.  I can understand the idea that they wanted to show Mary before she lost it all, still, it kind of feels like reading a long book and the last chapter is ripped out. 

And the loose ends are killing me. Why did we spend so much time on Claude, Greer, Narcisse, stupid Charles, etc. if they were just going to leave us hanging? And, seriously, what was the point of the devil-y 3-way?? 

[missbonnie]

All things considered I'm ok with the way it ended I guess. I thought the 3 way thing was beyond stupid though. I'm going to miss the show, the characters but mostly the costumes! 

[rtms77]

I was seriously embarrassed for Megan Fellows when that three way happened. What dumb and gross way to end a character arc. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by rtms77

[bookherder]

They made as good an end as they could, considering that we all know how Mary ends up. Picked that last moment before she lost it all, then ended it fast. 
Catherine was always my favourite, yes, the three-way was pointless and tacky, and seeing little Anne of Green Gables that way was weird, but she outlived all her children, so why not have a sequel?

There are so many characters left hanging, Catherine, her other children, Greer and her baby, the baby's pirate father, Narcisse, Francis's son with Lola. Bring on the sequel.

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I had no clue this was the series finale until they jumped ahead 21 years. I knew that Mary ended up Elizabeth's prisoner for decades but I'm fuzzy on the details of how it all went down so I'm a little bummed we don't get one more season. Wikipedia will have to refresh my memory.  I can understand the idea that they wanted to show Mary before she lost it all, still, it kind of feels like reading a long book and the last chapter is ripped out. 

And the loose ends are killing me. Why did we spend so much time on Claude, Greer, Narcisse, stupid Charles, etc. if they were just going to leave us hanging? And, seriously, what was the point of the devil-y 3-way?? 

I wouldn't mind watching Catherine vs. Elizabeth vs. Leeza, France, England and Spain, the traditional rivals, going at it for another season - there's still the Armada, the St. Bartholemew's Day Massacre, etc. to come. And, no offence to Mary fans, but  three experienced schemers are more fun than watching poor, trusting Mary flail around, led by her heart. They could fill the 21 years of Mary in captivity with occasional mentions of her, while the world moves on.

[Rachel RSL]

Exactly. I've always found the scenes about the secondary characters WAY more interesting than anything involving Mary. Bring on the Valois spin-off!

[bookherder]

"Three Queens and a Pack of Cards"? : )

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, rtms77 said:

What dumb and gross way to end a character arc. 

It was gross on so many levels. Especially when Catherine noted that they'd been drugged and said "I don't want to do this." Is this something that actually happened or did the CW decide they needed to end on a rapey note? I'm baffled.

[Scout Finch]

Apparently some dust was stirred up in my living room and got into my eyes when she woke up next to Francis. It's very rare for me to be emotionally manipulated by a TV show so I'm sticking to that excuse!

Edited June 17, 2017 by Scout Finch

[blaksheba]

On 6/17/2017 at 1:29 AM, rtms77 said:

I was seriously embarrassed for Megan Fellows when that three way happened. What dumb and gross way to end a character arc. 

Agreed. Even she looked embarrassed! I didn't understand that at all. 

I did like the way they handled almost all else, especially the extremely mature way Mary handed over her son James to her brother when she realized the jig was up and the arrest would hold.

I loved seeing Toby Regebo again and I agree, he and Ms. Kane really do/did a good job of displaying a couple hopelessly  in love with one another.

Edited June 18, 2017 by blaksheba
Toby! Toby! Toby!

[dreamcatcher]

Wow, I wasn't expecting to cry so much but I did and I'm not embarrassed at all! My only wish for the finale was to bring Toby back so I'm glad they gave us this at least. Although it was kinda random because Mary never seemed to care so much after moving back to Scotland but anyway. I'm kind of bummed that the changed her story with Bothwell but it makes sense given the limited time they had. They could have avoided the stupid scenes in France tbh, especially since they chose to not show anything that actually mattered about their story but anyway. I'm also so so sad they showed James don't giving a f*ck about the woman who sacrificed herself for him. I loved how beautifully written the Elizabeth-empowerment scenes were, but she is awful at this. Adelaide would have killed those scenes.

I loved many of the actors, but I honestly hope Adelaide keeps getting jobs. She is amazing and I think with good roles and a bit more experience she could become one of the best actresses out there.

[NorthstarATL]

That was nuts! And not just the nuts that killed Nicole! The threeway was SO out of left field! Elizabeth just flat out murdering Jane (after the first headblow with an oar didn't take!) and then doing the Great Liz Speech, Darnley getting out of yet another fire, the introduction of yet another Catherine Spawn, and so on! A LOT to take in, and it just ended being such a mess! However, it was sweet seeing Mary reunite with Toby in the afterlife, although this reminded me that the last time I saw HIM was playing a total creep on "The Last Kingdom"! Oh, and it's interesting that both Mary and Elizabeth bemoan the status of women/Queens, with Idiot Knox to back them up, while the show (and history) is riddled with both heroic AND treacherous women, not the least of which being major character Catherine.

[treeofdreams]

I wish they would continue this series without Mary.  It is called Reign, not Mary Queen of Scots, and there are still three queens in play.  I would love to see them follow on with what happens in England, France and Spain.

[TaurusRose]

Wow. That was just stupid right up to the moment my golden boy came back.  The 3-way was beyond embarrassing.  Poor Craig and Megan.  Claude got what she deserved...nothing. Charles and Henry were just eye rolling-ly bad. Elizabeth's little butch speech to her fiancé and troops was way over the top as was the scene between her and King James. Greer was a waste of space, totally useless all season.  I'm glad this is done, but I did enjoy my Frary surprise.

[waving feather]

Seeing Francis again reminded me that he was the only one in the series who can put Mary in her place (in a good way). Loved all the well-deserved verbal smackdowns he gave her in season one and two. They are a good match because he's the only one she would really listen to, to keep herself in line and he loved her unconditionally, forgave her for the many mistakes (including treason during her affair with Conde). Mary is impulsive and rash, so it's no surprise of her fate.

Would love to see Megan in more shows. She's just amazing from the first episode to the last. She never phoned it in even when the writing for her character is sometimes uninspired.

I actually like that they didn't wrap up the show all neat and tidy. Love that there's no happy ending for Claude. That's what you get when you take your good husband for granted.

[TigerLynx]

Were they always planning on ending the series with Mary's death?  Were the ratings not good enough to continue?  There is still so much more story to tell with the remaining characters.

There were women who had power at that time, but both Elizabeth and Mary were told from day one that as women they weren't capable of ruling, and shouldn't be allowed to.  It's ironic that Henry VIII's desperation for a male heir resulted in Elizabeth ruling longer than he did, and the end of the Tudor line on the thrown.

Elizabeth had Mary executed at a very strategic time.  By that point, Elizabeth had never married, had no heir, and King James had the strongest claim to the English thrown.

Catherine's husband shut her out of everything when he was King, but once he died, Catherine was definitely the power behind the thrown.  That threesome scene was just dumb.

[PinkRibbons]

This is a pretty good exit interview with Laurie McCarthy. It doesn't explain everything, but it answers some questions at least.

[wonderchica05]

I definitely think they didn't know they were being canceled until very, very late in the game. I suspect all that 3some/witch/Claude nonsense was going "somewhere"...until they got canceled and shoehorned in Mary's execution. Still, I liked the execution and after-life scenes. I liked Bothwell as well, and I think this version of him would have been pretty good for Mary in the long run.

[ulkis]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:30 AM, dreamcatcher said:

She is amazing and I think with good roles and a bit more experience she could become one of the best actresses out there.

I agree. I've eaten crow on this before but I remember seeing the promo for Reign and thinking she seemed mediocre. I was super wrong about that.

I was thinking they did know it was the last season but maybe not. Because otherwise it's strange to me that they didn't let Catherine have a reaction to Elizabeth killing Mary.

Edited June 19, 2017 by ulkis

[dreamcatcher]

I've seen two different accounts, one says they were halfway shooting the finale and the other that they were halfway through the season. Either way,wraping up was difficult but that finale was definitely changed at the last minute. But even if they had shoot everything, did they really need to include the threesome as the last thing we saw of Catherine and Narcisse? Everything else in this finale except for the execution scene seemed like a set up for a fifth season. Plus the fact that the waited until the last episode to kill off Darnley.... i honestly think they had no other option and for an historical show, this is unfair. It's not like they could have killed their main character in the finale while waiting for a renewal so without knowing their fate, they would have to drag their feet as long as possible.

[Moxie Cat]

My gosh, I thought it was understood that it would be the last season....given that it was kind of a surprise it got renewed for this year. But then again, I assumed the Originals was done after this season too and it got a reprieve, so what do I know?

Teared up at the ending montage. But it's also nice to hope that many of these figures who meet such tragic fates simply wake up with someone they love. 

I will now run to Wikipedia to figure out who Margot was.

I did think the very end was rather abrupt. It would have been nice for the average CW non-history buff to realize that Mary/James are the direct ancestors of the current royal family because of Elizabeth making James her heir.

[wonderchica05]

Obviously a lot of history had to be skipped because of the cancellation. I just feel like they went about it in a really weird way. I wonder if they thought another network was going to pick them up at the last minute so they planned a regular season finale, then the hoped-for pickup didn't happen. I can't believe they HOPED to end the Mary/Catherine relationship with... nothing. The show seemed to appreciate that relationship.

[TaurusRose]

22 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

It would have been nice for the average CW non-history buff to realize that Mary/James are the direct ancestors of the current royal family because of Elizabeth making James her heir.

I don't think this is accurate. Admittedly, trying to make sense of the royal houses, and their ties to each other, on my iPhone screen is hard to do, but the current queen of England is a descendant of Queen Victoria.  As best as I can tell there doesn't appear to be a tie between the Stuart/Tudor and Hanover/Windsor houses. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by taurusrose

[TaurusRose]

4 hours ago, wonderchica05 said:

Obviously a lot of history had to be skipped because of the cancellation. I just feel like they went about it in a really weird way. I wonder if they thought another network was going to pick them up at the last minute so they planned a regular season finale, then the hoped-for pickup didn't happen. I can't believe they HOPED to end the Mary/Catherine relationship with... nothing. The show seemed to appreciate that relationship.

I thought the pacing and story planning for season 4 was awful.  If the show runner foolishly hedged her bets in favor of a maybe/possible 5th season, she was an idiot.  First off, bad ratings and a surprise renewal for a short season should have weighed heavily in any decisions about how to proceed. Especially since better shows had been cancelled after 4 seasons by the CW.  

They wasted a lot of time with ridiculous stories for the French court.  They relied heavily on the tired trope of brothers squabbling over a girl and the Leith/Claude/Luc triangle instead of writing  concise and interesting two-three episode arcs focusing on the political and social upheavals swirling around Charles and Catherine in France. Henry was not necessary and shouldn't have been introduced.  Ditto for Leeza, Luc and Nicole.  Narcisse was poorly used and could have departed a lot sooner.  

I could have done with a lot less modern day "I'm woman, hear me roar" speechifying from Elizabeth and more scenes of her actively leading and making good decisions, a grand feat in its own right considering when she was queen.  Ditto for Mary, although we know she was totally out of her depth and nowhere near the force Elizabeth was. 

It would have been interesting to see Mary's brief reign in Scotland told with a bit more dramatic honesty.  In the hands of someone not Laurie McCarthy this could have been entertaining while touching on the historical high points.  Mary never became a sympathetic figure for me and she should have been at some point.

I didn't expect the lightness and prettiness of season 1, but I did expect a more mature approach to story telling, not more love triangles and really bad filler. So...I'm okay with the end.  Another season doesn't mean that they would have done anything any better and I was ready to say goodbye to all involved.  

[SongbirdHollow]

I loved this series and will really miss it. I came in just before Francis died, so when it finally came to Netflix I binged big-time to catch up, and I never participated in any of the discussions here, unfortunately.

I am not the target audience for the CW (over 50!) but I can see myself as enjoying it just as much as I would have if it had come out when I was a teenager. Or maybe menopause is the new puberty.

The show was visually stunning. The scenery and the costumes, which I'm told are not true to to period, nevertheless made me swoon. Adelaide Kane as Mary is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. That shot of her in the white furs on the white horse is seared in my memory. Strangely, I find her less attractive in real life, while Rachel Skarsden IRL is way prettier than when she's done up as Elizabeth.

There was drama and humor (King Henry, what a riot he was!) and I've been a Megan Follows fan since Anne of Green Gables. Narcisse's villainy was so goddamn sexy I nearly had to change my underpants after every episode. There were crazy soap-opera story lines (Fucking a girl out the window! Rendered brain damaged from a sex chair! Pirate baby!) and romance...Frary...and Bash & Kenna (ended too soon)...Greer and Lord Peppercorn...Narcisse's love for Lola. The Bothwell character had a very romantic Rhett Butler thing going on.There were plenty of story lines I didn't care for, particularly the supernatural and paranormal stuff, but I can take the good with the bad. 

I don't care that it played fast and loose with history. I knew nothing about her reign but when I looked up the facts I was surprised at how much was actually true. And I learned something from that.

I mentioned in the Small Talk thread that I got to stay at Ashford Castle in Ireland. I had no idea at the time my travel agent booked me there that it was where they filmed the outdoor scenes of the French court, but I can't tell you the thrill I get when I see it on TV now (and oh that last montage!) I've got a photo of it as my desktop at work and am always telling people THAT'S WHERE THEY SHOT REIGN AND I GOT TO STAY THERE!!! (Usually they say, What's Rain? haha)

I wish there were more episodes not just because there are so many stories left to tell, but because it was over all too quickly for me having binged on it. I'll likely watch the whole series through again at least once more. And I'm searching for another show to fill the void.

[TheGourmez]

Ugh, I am dissatisfied with the final episode. It really didn't have the gravitas of a finale, and other than the nice afterlife scene for Mary, it fell short for me on all counts. Where on Earth was the random threesome going? Margo is that important to Catherine's future? Not according to the history books. All we end with Catherine is that, really? No resonance of Mary's death in the French Court, really? I'm supposed to care more that Claude lost all her boys than that sweet, eye candy Luc disappeared? Was Narcisse's revenge in the previous episode essentially the end of his story? Is Bash a happy Druid forever? Was James a good surrogate father? 

And if I didn't know the history, I would have been so confused by that time jump and why Mary was being killed. I did like Mary and Elizabeth's two women power speeches, though. But I really think we needed at least one more episode to wrap everything up.

[brisbydog]

Quote

I don't think this is accurate. Admittedly, trying to make sense of the royal houses, and their ties to each other, on my iPhone screen is hard to do, but the current queen of England is a descendant of Queen Victoria.  As best as I can tell there doesn't appear to be a tie between the Stuart/Tudor and Hanover/Windsor houses. 

Mary's son James VI became James I of Scotland and his descendants, Charles I, Charles II, James II and his daughters Mary and Anne were the monarchs through the 1600's and into the 1700's. When Anne died without any living children the throne went to the Elector of Hanover, who was the great grandson of Mary's son James through his daughter Elizabeth and became George I. From him you have a direct line to the current queen, George II, George III, his son Edward Prince of Kent, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, George VI, Elizabeth II. The Queen can trace her ancestry all the way back to William the Conquerer in 1066

[TaurusRose]

44 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

Mary's son James VI became James I of Scotland and his descendants, Charles I, Charles II, James II and his daughters Mary and Anne were the monarchs through the 1600's and into the 1700's. When Anne died without any living children the throne went to the Elector of Hanover, who was the great grandson of Mary's son James through his daughter Elizabeth and became George I. From him you have a direct line to the current queen, George II, George III, his son Edward Prince of Kent, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, George VI, Elizabeth II. The Queen can trace her ancestry all the way back to William the Conquerer in 1066

Thanks for the info.  However, "direct ancestors" are not how I would describe Mary and James, but that's just me. And I believe Mary's son was James VI of Scotland and James I of England.

[brisbydog]

woops yes typed Scotland instead of England there. It's Mary-JamesI-(Elizabeth)-(Sophie)-GeorgeI-GeorgeII-(Frederick)-GeorgeIII-(Edward)-Victoria-EdwardVII-GeorgeV-GeorgeVI-ElizabethII: direct line from Mary QoS to Elizabeth II

[Moxie Cat]

7 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Mary's son James VI became James I of Scotland and his descendants, Charles I, Charles II, James II and his daughters Mary and Anne were the monarchs through the 1600's and into the 1700's. When Anne died without any living children the throne went to the Elector of Hanover, who was the great grandson of Mary's son James through his daughter Elizabeth and became George I. From him you have a direct line to the current queen, George II, George III, his son Edward Prince of Kent, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, George VI, Elizabeth II. The Queen can trace her ancestry all the way back to William the Conquerer in 1066

 

Thanks, Brisby. You're exactly right. I've always been fascinated by how the current line runs through the Tudor daughter Margaret (rather than Henry8/Elizabeth) and how both the Stuart and "German" Hanover/Windsor houses came from Mary's son's progeny. You CAN trace Elizabeth II's lineage back to William the Conqueror, which is awesome - it just gets a little twisty (especially around the Wars of the Roses) and leaves out some monarchs. But Mary QoS and her grandmother were two of the linchpins.

Also, I've learned a lot about the Jacobites since watching Outlander, and it makes me laugh how upset they were about the Hanovers. Granted, they have a point that the original Stuart line wasn't on the throne. But a Stuart technically WAS on the throne - a direct descendant of the Tudors, Mary, and James. He was just descended through James' daughter (gasp!) rather than his son.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[PinkRibbons]

Didn't they skip like 20+ people who had a stronger claim to the English throne but were Catholic, when they offered Hanover the British throne?

Fun fact: Adelaide Kane was actually under the impression that she was a descendant of the real Mary, and it seems only recently she relooked at her family tree and realized she was descended from a different set of Scottish Stuarts.

[brisbydog]

Yes they had to go hunting for a Protestant, after James II the rule was if you were Catholic you did not get offered the throne. Charles II was Catholic but smart enough not to mention it until he was on his death bed. His brother was an idiot who wouldn't shut up about it and lost the throne within two years. Another Fun Fact: If James had stayed on the throne we would have had two kings of England until the death of his son (the young Pretender) in 1766, instead we had Mary/William, Anne, George I, George II and George III

If you are looking for another fun show in this era I highly recommend Versailles which is the tale of the young Louis XIV of France (who is a direct descendent of Conde's brother - you will remember his pregnant wife that he told Kenna was dead in season 3-once Catherine's sons all died out her son became Henri IV - was also married to Margo who we barely knew lol). It is higher quality than Reign in terms of writing, costumes, budget etc but has the high camp factor, Louis' brother Philippe was bisexual and a cross dresser and is by far the most fun character on TV. Two series so far and they are filming number three.

Edited June 23, 2017 by brisbydog
added information

[SongbirdHollow]

I'm three episodes in to Versailles, and while I'm enjoying it OK, I don't agree about it being higher quality or even campier. More nudity, for sure. I don't find Louis XIV very likable here but he is interesting. A little humor would go a long way in me warming up to him and the rest of the cast.

[JewellHill]

Sorry to run verbose, but I am sooo disappointed that the series is over!  It must have been excruciating for the writers/creators to wrap that all up in such a short time! I know it was for me. What I will miss the most though, is the ‘love against all odds’ or ‘star-crossed lovers’ story with Mary and Bothwell. (Which makes for great ratings!! Hint) It’s my sincere belief that he is a huge hero who has gone unsung or slandered in history, since he and she ‘lost’ the battle, hence didn’t get to write the history. I have read the lines and between the lines of this chapter of history, and I am sure they had a great love, that he was a true patriot and devoted to his Queen and beloved and that fate and snakes in the grass double crossed them. What a sexy love story! The queen surrounded by spies, murderers, misogynists and corruption, the brave Lord who is willing to look like a monster in the eyes of the world to save her, their defiant kiss at Carberry (sp?), her willingness to make a deal with the traitors if they let Bothwell go unharmed, the double cross, her constant tearful response when his name came up during her imprisonment, the fact that the casket letters could have easily been (and many say are) forgeries….the tale of Bothwell and Mary reads like a top notch romance novel if you study it well enough. Sort of a Romeo and Juliette in the sense that they both took a fall out of love for each other. Not to mention Adam Croasdell in this role is completely dashing and delicious. PLEASE, if you do another season, we beg of you, do justice to these two great lovers and their tragic but beautiful story! Thanks very much- Jewell Hill

[TaurusRose]

18 hours ago, JewellHill said:

Sorry to run verbose, but I am sooo disappointed that the series is over!  It must have been excruciating for the writers/creators to wrap that all up in such a short time! I know it was for me. What I will miss the most though, is the ‘love against all odds’ or ‘star-crossed lovers’ story with Mary and Bothwell. (Which makes for great ratings!! Hint) It’s my sincere belief that he is a huge hero who has gone unsung or slandered in history, since he and she ‘lost’ the battle, hence didn’t get to write the history. I have read the lines and between the lines of this chapter of history, and I am sure they had a great love, that he was a true patriot and devoted to his Queen and beloved and that fate and snakes in the grass double crossed them. What a sexy love story! The queen surrounded by spies, murderers, misogynists and corruption, the brave Lord who is willing to look like a monster in the eyes of the world to save her, their defiant kiss at Carberry (sp?), her willingness to make a deal with the traitors if they let Bothwell go unharmed, the double cross, her constant tearful response when his name came up during her imprisonment, the fact that the casket letters could have easily been (and many say are) forgeries….the tale of Bothwell and Mary reads like a top notch romance novel if you study it well enough. Sort of a Romeo and Juliette in the sense that they both took a fall out of love for each other. Not to mention Adam Croasdell in this role is completely dashing and delicious. PLEASE, if you do another season, we beg of you, do justice to these two great lovers and their tragic but beautiful story! Thanks very much- Jewell Hill

What book did you read?  Sounds like something I read once and that was a novel (i.e. fiction).  True that historians are very skeptical of the casket letters, but Bothwell himself is a sketchier character and his relationship with Mary questionable and murky.

[mojoween]

I'm sad this is over because I'm always sad when a show I enjoy ends.

I admit I am clueless about English/Scottish/French history so I don't know what of this was real and what was made up for story purposes but I found it all engaging.

Except Leeza.  I could have done without her.

I too wonder what became of John, the orphan of Lola and Francis.  And wher did Sebastian end up?  And do we know where Kenna went and I forgot, or is that also a mystery?  Oh hey where is Nostradamus?

I am truly truly going to miss Megan.  I loved her as Catherine the most.

[TaurusRose]

34 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I'm sad this is over because I'm always sad when a show I enjoy ends.

I admit I am clueless about English/Scottish/French history so I don't know what of this was real and what was made up for story purposes but I found it all engaging.

Except Leeza.  I could have done without her.

I too wonder what became of John, the orphan of Lola and Francis.  And wher did Sebastian end up?  And do we know where Kenna went and I forgot, or is that also a mystery?  Oh hey where is Nostradamus?

I am truly truly going to miss Megan.  I loved her as Catherine the most.

I'm thinking that since Lola and John never existed along with Sebastian and Kenna, they were given the "out of sight, out of mind treatment," otherwise those not dealt with probably would have suffered the same fate as Lola, killed off. The daughter who was married off to Spain was grossly misused and portrayed by Reign, although I do believe she died in childbirth.  Seems as if Nostradamus's main purpose (according to Reign) was to predict Francis's death.  Once that was done he disappeared.

Edited June 25, 2017 by taurusrose

[PinkRibbons]

8 hours ago, mojoween said:

I too wonder what became of John, the orphan of Lola and Francis.  And wher did Sebastian end up?  And do we know where Kenna went and I forgot, or is that also a mystery?  Oh hey where is Nostradamus?

John is in Narcisse's care as a stepson, so he's got a 50/50 chance of turning into a murderous douche like That One Son of Narcisse That Mary Killed, or he could be a nice decent guy like Luc. Maybe Catherine has some involvement in his upbringing since she's his grandmother.

Bash: I'm going to put this in spoilers just in case. It's Word of God, but considering it was never onscreen, imo Bash's fate is whatever you want it to be.

Spoiler

But yeah, he's supposedly been dead since before Rizzio even showed up on the show.

 

Kenna was never mentioned again after she left because her actress had been, let's say, "difficult" (as in, if I understand correctly, dared to openly criticize the rape storyline). I'm too sleepy to check her last episode but I got the impression that she's traveling the world as a Mistress to any King she comes across, keeping her baby along with her by claiming it's her sister's. At least she was last seen eyeing one King.

Nostradamus...I got nada. Hopefully he went and found whats-her-face he was in love with and originally planned to run away with.

[wonderchica05]

Sexy Nostradamus is one character I've always missed. I don't even remember what happened to him! Did he just sail off and never return? It blew my mind recently when I read that the actor and Greer's actress have a baby together in real life.

[PinkRibbons]

1 hour ago, wonderchica05 said:

Sexy Nostradamus is one character I've always missed. I don't even remember what happened to him! Did he just sail off and never return? It blew my mind recently when I read that the actor and Greer's actress have a baby together in real life.

My first reaction was WHAT. Because I never heard this. (Come to think of it this show in particular is one I have never thought to look much at what the actors were actually up to in real life.) And it turns out they're married!

[dreamcatcher]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:40 PM, taurusrose said:

What book did you read?  Sounds like something I read once and that was a novel (i.e. fiction).  True that historians are very skeptical of the casket letters, but Bothwell himself is a sketchier character and his relationship with Mary questionable and murky.

Honestly, we will never be able to know what exactly happened back then. But Mary was cleared of the charges (which is what they used on the show as an excuse for her imprisonment), and she might have been able to retain her throne had her not married Bothwell. So I can't see him as a true hero, considering that they had no reason to get married so soon. Which is why it's easier for me to believe that he did rape her as a way to force her to marry him.

 

one thing i'm thinking about the finale is this... i understand that they might have filmed most of the episode before they were cancelled and they had no budget to reshoot more than the final scene. But why not take out the threesome scene altogether? That was completely irrelevant and they didn't have to use it.

[Scarlett45]

I binged the series for the first time these last few weeks. I enjoyed all of your postings. 

Given Mary’s life I can believe her childhood at the French court was her happiest time. Thus I thought meeting Francis in the afterlife was fitting. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Scarlett45