Good Bones - General Discussion

[dleighg]

That was a fun episode. I chuckled at the special effort they made to say that you can't put a whole mess of toys and blankets in a baby's crib. Of course my kids are 23 and 26 and their crib looked like the "before" picture. Tough to be a parent these days-- I'm sure they would have gotten a whole lot of nasty-grams if they hadn't said you aren't allowed to have anything in a crib these days! Even a blanket!

[sheetmoss]

Nice, sweet episode

Re; no basement

I know it adds to the cost, but when you figure in the extra sq footage-- esp if finished, storage, and a place to go in a Midwestern t-storm w/tornado warning, you would think it would be a plus to add

Edited June 5, 2019 by sheetmoss

[3 is enough]

Basements are more common in colder parts of the country.  I would have thought they were pretty much the norm in Indiana because they do get snow and cold weather.  Houses in Chicago have them.  But as I recall, a lot of their houses have had only crawlspaces, and I don't think I have ever seen them do a finished basement.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think a lot depends on the water table for an area.     Considering the foundations, and floors in the basements we've seen on the show, then I wouldn't even use them for storage.     

When I was younger, many houses in my neighborhood (Northern Virginia) had basements, and all had the furnace, water heater, and laundry down there.    Some of the basements were so wet that there were sump pumps, and the washer/dryer were on wooden pallets, because of water.  Since so many modern houses have laundry on main, or second floor, and many have a utility room on the main floor, then I bet the need to finish a basement for mechanicals, and laundry is over.    

I loved Mina's house, and I hope they are very happy there.   

[palmaire]

It's interesting that Mina and Karen rarely, if ever, mention HVAC systems, hot water heaters, or basic mechanicals. Surely there are old boilers that need to be removed, blocked sewer pipes, knob and tube, etc. They skip over any utility closets in the floorplan discussions, too. Where are they putting that stuff in houses that don't have basements?

On the other hand, scenes of wobbly or nonexistent foundations are practically a requirement.

They prefer to focus on the "pretty" stuff, and maybe it's understood that mechanicals are always replaced in these tumbledown houses, but it is an omission compared to other flip shows. Those are high cost items and provide an opportunity for scenes of the flippers to put their heads in their hands and go to commercial with a suspenseful soundtrack.

I rewatched the older seasons recently and, man, do Mina and Karen lose a lot of stuff they intended to keep. It's frequently the fault of Tad and his wankers, but not always. Clearly mark the items you want saved, ladies. How many times must they learn the same lesson?

[irisheyes]

Mina will usually mention in a voiceover during drywall installation that they’ve installed all the mechanicals. I think since they always replace all of that, they don’t have the drama of “OMG!  We’ve got to replace the furnace and rewire the whole house!”

Besides, crumbling foundations are way more fun since there’s always the question of, “Will Tad finally kick down the wrong wall and cause the whole house to collapse?”  Cause I am HERE for that. 😂

Edited June 6, 2019 by irisheyes

[Minivanessa]

39 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Mina will usually mention in a voiceover during drywall installation that they’ve installed all the mechanicals. I think since they always replace all of that, they don’t have the drama of “OMG!  We’ve got to replace the furnace and rewire the whole house!”

True. When you buy a crumbling - usually abandoned and boarded-up  - house for peanuts, sometimes from the City, you'd have to be a special kind of stupid to be surprised that it needs to be rewired, re-plumbed, and given a new HVAC system - and that's after the foundation's been fixed as required. As in, "Renovation Realities" or "First Time Flippers" level of stupid. And this isn't that kind of show. Thank goodness.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Jeeves

[ByaNose]

Karen annoys me to end. Nice but annoying. Mina is nice. I really her husband. He seems like a nice guy. The house looked pretty. It’s not exactly my design aesthetic but there bits and pieces I liked. I don’t care for White Carrera Marble countertops. I like more white and less black/gray veining. I did like the sliders doors for the patio dinning area. Although, it’s butt up to the neighbors house. Overall, it’s a great forever home and I’m sure they’ll be very happy with their little boy and fireplace for the stockings. BTW! What does her husband do or a living? I haven’t the show in a while (mostly due to Karen) and, may have missed his background story. 

[dleighg]

1 minute ago, ByaNose said:

lthough, it’s butt up to the neighbors house.

yeah that is what I noticed; of course I live in a one acre per house area. 

[suebee12]

24 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

BTW! What does her husband do or a living?

Good question! I googled and found this article which is kinda' cute but no mention of his job.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mina-starsiak-husband-steve-hawk-132100340.html

He is the brother of Tony Hawk of skateboarding fame....maybe he does some of that?

[CrazyInAlabama]

What I could find said Steve Hawk is an advertising consultant/account executive, so I guess marketing or advertising.   I think he has something to do with the Apartments . com website.  Maybe marketing apartment or condo complexes?    

Mina and Steve certainly seem like a devoted couple, and the baby is so cute!     I'm glad they finished in time to bring the baby home to the new house.  

Edited June 7, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[bilgistic]

4 hours ago, suebee12 said:

Good question! I googled and found this article which is kinda' cute but no mention of his job.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mina-starsiak-husband-steve-hawk-132100340.html

He is the brother of Tony Hawk of skateboarding fame....maybe he does some of that?

The Steve Hawk that is the brother of Tony Hawk is not Mina's husband. That man is a journalist and surfer in his 50s. Mina's Steve is his 30s. He works at Apartments.com, per his LinkedIn page.

[ByaNose]

8 hours ago, bilgistic said:

The Steve Hawk that is the brother of Tony Hawk is not Mina's husband. That man is a journalist and surfer in his 50s. Mina's Steve is his 30s. He works at Apartments.com, per his LinkedIn page.

Thanks.

[mojito]

Nice house. Won't mind if I never hear the words "forever home" again. 

I don't usually notice such things, but when Steve and Mina broke the news of Mina's pregnancy to Karen (who was in a bath robe), the microwave clock read "2:33" and when they walked out of the kitchen, the clock read "9:04". Less fake drama, more work, please.

[izabella]

Mina's house seemed really big for that lot.  I wonder how the neighbors feel about a 3 story behemoth blocking their sun and the sky.  It looked like the other homes on the street were two story or even one story, and not as long in the back, but I didn't get a good look at the rest.

[dleighg]

Yeah I was really surprised how close they were to the lot line on the one side (well really on both sides). Of course I live on an acre so it's a completely different thing. The fake greenery "fence" worked pretty well on the deck. It was much better to do that than to take up a huge amount of space with steps

[irisheyes]

6 hours ago, mojito said:

Nice house. Won't mind if I never hear the words "forever home" again. 

I don't usually notice such things, but when Steve and Mina broke the news of Mina's pregnancy to Karen (who was in a bath robe), the microwave clock read "2:33" and when they walked out of the kitchen, the clock read "9:04". Less fake drama, more work, please.

I don’t know. Karen’s many things, but I don’t know if she’s that much of an actress. That looked like a pretty genuine reaction. I wonder if the microwave time was a timer. (I’m really bad about taking stuff out and then leaving the remaining time just hanging out on the display and not hitting cancel.). Steve’s reaction seemed pretty legit too.  They’ve never been too “fakey” with their rehabs, so I’m inclined to believe this was something Mina cooked up with the production team to surprise them  

[Automne]

I’d be really pissed if somebody I entrusted to take care of renovation duties while I’m off having a baby decided to take extreme creative liberties and blew the budget by covering the entire house in shiplap. The house immediately looks dated now. “Industrial farmhouse” my behind.

[Writing Wrongs]

I didn't understand some choices. If the house is already small, why try to squeeze in 3 bedrooms? They could've had a bigger master and a spare room upstairs. That would have left room downstairs for a bigger kitchen, dining and bathroom if they wanted.

And yeah, the shiplap thing would've pissed me off. That should come out of his pocket, since it wasn't approved.

[palmaire]

6 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I didn't understand some choices. If the house is already small, why try to squeeze in 3 bedrooms?

This was absolutely my least favorite of all their remodels. Very little charm from the outside, tiny kitchen, nowhere to eat except a two-stool island in the kitchen, squeezing three bedrooms into 1,100 sf, and the fucking shiplap. If the expected buyer is a single person or couple with no kids, give them some danged room to move around! I probably would have ended up using the 8 x 8 third "bedroom" as a closet and felt resentful that I had to walk upstairs to get to it from the master.

I also disliked the staging with all the fluffy fabric and large baskets trying to make the walls look less harsh. Painting a couple of them a light color other than white would have helped.

Small point, but I have never really understood the appeal of raw wood on the exterior. Paint those porch posts! And if you're going to add shutters, why put them on one window and not the other? There were only two in this danged place.

Just a reminder of how sad and gray the exterior looked: 

Edited June 12, 2019 by palmaire

[pasdetrois]

I like this show. Karen's a bit over-the-top, but I assume her true personality is upbeat and slightly daffy. I appreciate her skills and work ethic.

I was shocked at the excessive shiplap; do we have that other TV show couple to thank for this madness? Maybe the partner is a majority owner of the property and had final say? Mina held on to her composure but it's clear she was upset.

I watch Home Town and posted about how they rarely mention the mechanicals. One thing I wonder about is asbestos, which was ubiquitous in old floor tiles. Cutting in to them or removing them requires covering the house with a containment thingy and removing them according to a federal protocol - very expensive. Yet they are never mentioned in regard to these old houses. I wonder if production screens out properties that have them?

I live in a semi-urban neighborhood, and many homes are on small lots with little space between them. There used to be decent back yards, but now everything that is torn down is replaced with huge new houses that are built right up to the setbacks. I lost much of my southern light when a behemoth went up next door. And natural springs run underground, so we all have sump pumps and french drains.

I do understand why they jammed in bedrooms and baths; that's what buyers want, as long as there is a master bedroom with en suite bath. My in-laws put in a teeny staircase bath 30 years ago, using a teeny sink from a marine supply place. It's a historical house and it was the only place they could have a bath on the first floor.

Edited June 12, 2019 by pasdetrois

[CrazyInAlabama]

The first floor master is a definite plus for people who are downsizing, or just want guest rooms on the second floor.      I know so many people (I'm retirement age) who simply can't do stairs any longer.    What I hated was the sheer amount of ship lap, throughout the entire house was too much, and a waste of money.     

I will say I have an entire wall in my bedroom of the ship lap appearing tile, but the entire house would make me want to run away.      I really wish they had either used smaller size furniture in the living room, or dumped the accent tables, because it made a small room look even smaller.   

[dleighg]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:35 PM, pasdetrois said:

My in-laws put in a teeny staircase bath 30 years ago, using a teeny sink from a marine supply place. It's a historical house and it was the only place they could have a bath on the first floor.

I didn't understand all their discussion of a 6 inch deep vanity (and that sink was way deeper than 6 inches). Certainly given that you had to walk past it it needed to be shallow. But that sink was more like 8 or 10 inches deep.

[dleighg]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:15 PM, palmaire said:

nowhere to eat except a two-stool island in the kitchen

yeah no potential for "entertaining" in that house, right? Like even just inviting the inlaws? Or the guests who are going to be staying in one of those extra bedrooms!

[irisheyes]

The problem they had is they needed another bathroom off of the master bedroom, or they wouldn’t get the price they wanted. In this day and age, buyers (especially young couples) insist on a master suite, and there was zero possibility of putting it upstairs unless you just went to a one bedroom. And, because they overpaid for the house (Karen sounded especially unconvinced as Mina was talking about how they were paying for location), they couldn’t really add on or dormer out the roof to gain space for a master bath. It was a poor buy, and they should have told their buddy Josh that he was on his own. (Of course, they probably made more from HGTV than they did selling the house that they can afford to lose some money here and there.)

I’m usually pretty good at finding their houses, but I haven’t been able to figure this one out. Anyone know if they sold it?  According to Indianapolis Property records, Two Chicks doesn’t own any houses, so I wonder if they have a new corporation buying houses so people can’t find them as easily. They’ve always been really open about streets and neighborhoods, so it’s been easier to discover property records. Now, not so much. 

[suebee12]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

According to Indianapolis Property records, Two Chicks doesn’t own any houses, so I wonder if they have a new corporation buying houses so people can’t find them as easily.

....or maybe friend Josh owns it??

[MaKaM]

Was the 8 airing a rerun? I hadn't seen it before. I mean, I guess financial considerations kept them somewhat minimal on this purple house (yeah, a $112,000 profit, terrible margins there) but geez, they really lost so much of the charm/character. They could have put up some short knee walls next to the support post between the living and dining rooms and put those columns back. It still would have been open but a bit more defined. The porch posts also looked sad compared to what they had been. The final effect was pretty but kinda boring. The pocket door/french door between the two rooms could have been kept, just secured so they wouldn't open. Eh, it felt like a missed opportunity all over the place with this one.

[pasdetrois]

I agree about the lost opportunities, but I keep reminding myself this show isn't about renovating for a specific homeowner, but to sell. That's why they're doing the open spaces with minimal disruption to flow.

I do like that they continually show the realities of flipping - Mina really watches their dollars and mentions the risks.

Surely those precious chemistry beakers were just for the episode? Lots of upkeep there - watering, cleaning the glass - and they looked kind of weird in that space.

Did we see the leaded glass window again?

I was surprised at the purple exterior. I love it, but I would think buyers would want the more predictable exteriors - yellow, white, tan, blue, gray.

Edited June 19, 2019 by pasdetrois

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, pasdetrois said:

I agree about the lost opportunities, but I keep reminding myself this show isn't about renovating for a specific homeowner, but to sell. That's why they're doing the open spaces with minimal disruption to flow.

Surely those precious chemistry beakers were just for the episode? Lots of upkeep there - watering, cleaning the glass - and they looked kind of weird in that space.

Did we see the leaded glass window again?

I was surprised at the purple exterior. I love it, but I would think buyers would want the more predictable exteriors - yellow, white, tan, blue, gray.

I don't think the house @MaKaM was talking about, was the small house with the chemistry beaker plant/light thing on last night's episode. For one thing, they didn't make $112K on last night's house. I think that at the end they were aiming for something like a $35K profit but got a few thousand less than asking price so it was less than a $35K profit. 

But yes, that chemistry beaker thing was - stupid. I get it that Karen is artistic and creative and warm-hearted and all. But, that was a total dud of an idea. I suppose it's sweet that it involved her late dad's home chemistry set which was meaningful to her, but WTH did it add to that house?

It's one thing to have a feature in a newly remodeled house that includes something salvaged from the house pre-remodel. Or something that relates to the history of the location or the story of the house itself. But an item that has sentimental value to one of the people who remodeled the house? Is just so random. And in this case it wasn't even a cool thing in and of itself. A strange ugly agglomeration of ivy and strings of lights and glass jars. If I bought the house I'd write in the contract as a term of sale that they would have to remove that thing and patch/repair any damage left behind, before closing.

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I don't think the house @MaKaM was talking about, was the small house with the chemistry beaker plant/light thing on last night's episode. For one thing, they didn't make $112K on last night's house. I think that at the end they were aiming for something like a $35K profit but got a few thousand less than asking price so it was less than a $35K profit. 

But yes, that chemistry beaker thing was - stupid. I get it that Karen is artistic and creative and warm-hearted and all. But, that was a total dud of an idea. I suppose it's sweet that it involved her late dad's home chemistry set which was meaningful to her, but WTH did it add to that house?

It's one thing to have a feature in a newly remodeled house that includes something salvaged from the house pre-remodel. Or something that relates to the history of the location or the story of the house itself. But an item that has sentimental value to one of the people who remodeled the house? Is just so random. And in this case it wasn't even a cool thing in and of itself. A strange ugly agglomeration of ivy and strings of lights and glass jars. If I bought the house I'd write in the contract as a term of sale that they would have to remove that thing and patch/repair any damage left behind, before closing.

Yeah, that was very weird and I'd think if her mom had held on to those chemistry beakers for so long, that Karen would not have wanted to part with it.  I loved the lavender exterior paint color and especially loved the unusually long bench seat with storage under the dining area's window. I disliked the wallpaper on the back side of the island, where the stools were. I thought that was ugly. Still wondering how Karen and Mina make any money on these houses, except for what they are paid for doing the show itself. Does anyone here have any idea about a ballpark figure these two make for the show? Their all in budget was $245,000. Purchase price was 50K and they went over their original 170K reno budget by 25K. Something about the water main line being replaced and whatever else. So they listed for $280,000, hoping to make a 35K profit. It sold for $278,000, earning them a $33,000 profit. Awfully small profit margin!  How long does it take them to do their flips? I admit to just being a casual viewer of the show, catching it here and there, and only on the late viewing. Since it runs an hour I've often fallen asleep before the big reveal.  Do they have specific buyers in mind for each of the homes they renovate? B/c it seems as if whichever couple does the walk-through at the end, rarely buys the home.  They then mention that 'so and so' did not wind up buying the home but we got a buyer for x amount of dollars.  

[2727]

I know K&M spend a lot on almost completely rebuilding their decrepit houses and typically make only a modest profit, but I wish they'd cough up a bit for something other than low cost vinyl exterior doors on historic homes. They look so out of place to me! I could also go a good long while without seeing another chair rail.

Mina loves Carrera and somewhat spendy tiles, but that and a few nicer light fixtures are about all she really splashes out for. I completely understand budgeting and not over-improving for the neighborhood, but it just can be a little repetitive to watch.

What I don't understand are the segments on "shopping" for furniture that's only borrowed for staging purposes. Design ideas for viewers, I guess?

Every design and flip show has jumped on those danged patterned cement tiles. I get it, already! They're about $27/sf in my area, so not cheap.

[Minivanessa]

@2727 - I agree about Mina's inevitable use of carerra and the recent patterned tile trend.

I know they're trying to spiff up these modest houses, but marble tile and countertops are the last thing I'd want to deal with in my home. They are high maintenance - sealing and periodic re-sealing is required, and even then they can be stained by some foods, and you have to be careful what cleaning stuff you use on them. No thanks. There are less expensive alternatives that look great and are much more durable and stain-resistant. 

I was cracking up about all of Mina's stressing over the tight budget on this flip and then getting almost lover-like when she was caressing the sample carerra tiles in the "here's the design plan" scene. Has she *ever* strayed from carerra on this show? I'd like to think she has, but she may be a one-trick pony.

I've notice on other design/flip shows, the flipper/designer tends to stick with one type of countertop. At least the woman on the Philly show (I like her a lot) went all the time with something like quartz which is a manufactured product using natural stone, very durable and stain-resistant and not nearly as high maintenance as marble or even granite. I think Tamara on Bargain Mansions is also a carerra marble fangirl, lol.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The first episode last night was a rerun, but a good one.    The grandparents house probably was in good shape, but after being rented out, it certainly was trashed.    The result was lovely, and to me the most important thing is the structure and foundation are totally sound, and should last forever.      The purple exterior paint was not my choice, but I loved the interior.   I really enjoyed the women coming back to see the grandparents house, and being so thrilled.    I wonder if the women managed to buy the house back?   It would have been nice to know the outcome.  

Do they have to paint everything purple?    The new episode last night was interesting, but even though they fixed so many problems (water line, moved furnace, and water heater), I wonder how many others are still hidden?     I wasn't a fan of the chemistry set light/planter, but I'm not into trendy, or fashionable either.    They could have saved a bundle doing a marble look back splash with porcelain or ceramic tile.   

Edited June 19, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[CruiseDiva]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

They could have saved a bundle doing a marble look back splash with porcelain or ceramic tile.   

We just had our foyer retiled (old tile was cracking) and used 12" porcelain tile that looks like marble with very small grout lines. It looks very elegant and isn't slippery the way real marble would have been.

Edited June 19, 2019 by CruiseDiva
Edit to add that the porcelain tile was very budget friendly at $2 per tile.

[sheetmoss]

I was kind of surprised Indy didn't pick up the cost of the new water line to the house since those old lines have lead issues

[car54]

Here is an article about how Mina and Steve met with some wedding pictures---and now I want to know what he did to make Karen mad--Karen likes EVERYONE.

https://www.countryliving.com/life/entertainment/a20650294/mina-starsiak-married-husband-steve-hawk/

Also this article about Mina and Steve taking her sister's little girl for a while (their family is soooo complicated!)

https://people.com/tv/good-bones-mina-starsiak-2-year-old-sisters-daughter/

[suebee12]

@car54. Thanks for those links! I had posted them way back when the show first started and we had several topics per thread....I miss that. Someone had posted a detailed family tree and other interesting things...like Karen being a lawyer and that she has performed weddings. I wish that we still had that in a lot of the threads, especially House Hunters!!!

[bilgistic]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:48 AM, ECM1231 said:

Still wondering how Karen and Mina make any money on these houses, except for what they are paid for doing the show itself. Does anyone here have any idea about a ballpark figure these two make for the show? Their all in budget was $245,000. Purchase price was 50K and they went over their original 170K reno budget by 25K. Something about the water main line being replaced and whatever else. So they listed for $280,000, hoping to make a 35K profit. It sold for $278,000, earning them a $33,000 profit. Awfully small profit margin!  How long does it take them to do their flips? I admit to just being a casual viewer of the show, catching it here and there, and only on the late viewing. Since it runs an hour I've often fallen asleep before the big reveal.  Do they have specific buyers in mind for each of the homes they renovate? B/c it seems as if whichever couple does the walk-through at the end, rarely buys the home.  They then mention that 'so and so' did not wind up buying the home but we got a buyer for x amount of dollars.  

I've been thinking about this, and this season has given me a sense of the timeline because of Mina's pregnancy. There have been six episodes so far, and she's been some stage of pregnant in all of them.

So far, they've had at least six houses under construction in ~10 months. That means their profits, which are at least $25K per house, mean they are making at least $150K in less than a year. Also, as the Realtor selling the houses, Mina would also be getting 3% commission per sale, which would be over $8K on the $278K purple East Street house from Tuesday's episode. That's well over another ~$50K in under a year. Per an Instagram post of Tad's I saw a while back, Mina is making "millions" (and he wasn't being fairly compensated; I don't think he was being paid to be on the show at that time, which was a couple years ago), so they must be making much, much more than what I have just figured.

14 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

I was kind of surprised Indy didn't pick up the cost of the new water line to the house since those old lines have lead issues

My parents live in a medium-sized city that is smaller than Indianapolis. The city put in a new water line on their street a few years ago, but each household had to pay $15K to hook into it. My folks couldn't afford it, so the new line stops before their house. On their dead-end street, there is one other house after theirs, so they don't have the new line either. I'm not sure how it works that they still have water, because they don't have a well, but, yeah, the city expecting you to pay for new lines and then pay for the water that runs through them is a special kind of bullshit. We already pay taxes for infrastructure, which should include water lines.

Edited June 20, 2019 by bilgistic
Corrected commission amount.

[chessiegal]

7 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Also, as the Realtor selling the houses, Mina would also be getting 6% commission per sale

As the listing agent, she has to share the commission with the buyer's agent and both their brokers. Real estate agents are mules for brokerages, and typically get about 1 1/2% commission. I took the training to be a real estate agent, passed the course, and got my license. I was inundated by requests from brokers who wanted me to work for them. When I realized how much work I had to do for so little money, I said no thanks. But I can understand how Mina saves money by listing her own properties.

[sheetmoss]

It would be interesting to find out how many projects go through 2 Chicks and a Hammer- and are  not part of the the Good Bones series?

Curious, does anybody know if the old  project mgr - Lenny?, who was sorta/kinda related through the parents various marriages

Wasn't Lenny the ex of Mina's dad's third ex-wife? Or something like that LOL

Edited June 20, 2019 by sheetmoss

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

As the listing agent, she has to share the commission with the buyer's agent and both their brokers. Real estate agents are mules for brokerages, and typically get about 1 1/2% commission. I took the training to be a real estate agent, passed the course, and got my license. I was inundated by requests from brokers who wanted me to work for them. When I realized how much work I had to do for so little money, I said no thanks. But I can understand how Mina saves money by listing her own properties.

You're right. She makes around 3%. I corrected my post.

Edited June 20, 2019 by bilgistic

[bilgistic]

Something that has come to bother me about the show/the flips is them saying a neighborhood is "up-and-coming" or "transitioning", and that's in part because of their help. Those words/phrases are codes for gentrification. Consider that they paid $100K for the house last week (the teardown) and said it would've been $3K a couple years ago. That's crazy. People who have lived their whole lives in a modestly priced neighborhood aren't going to be able to pay tax bills when property values increase in their neighborhood and city-wide. I see it here in my city with sky-high housing prices and rent and destruction of affordable housing for new-home construction under the guise of "progress".

My own "affordable" ($775/mo 1BR apt in NC) apartment complex is being renovated soon. All residents are being forced to leave. There are very few alternatives in the same price range and in safe areas. Also, I cannot afford to move. That's the real, human impact of gentrification.

Mina and Karen say they want to improve their city, but buying and over-improving old houses that should cost $100K in neighborhoods with comparable $100K houses, and then selling the resulting $300,000 houses doesn't seem like the ethical way to do it.

Like, maybe along with doing their flips, they could help existing homeowners improve their homes structurally and cosmetically on a pro bono basis.

Edited June 20, 2019 by bilgistic

[dleighg]

10 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Consider that they paid $100K for the house last week (the teardown) and said it would've been $3K a couple years ago.

Isn't it the case that the $3k house is only $3k because it's pretty much falling down, has been empty for years, etc. etc.? Did you notice the shell of the house next door to the one they were doing this week? It had huge holes in the siding and was clearly not being lived in. I really don't think they are "over-improving" the homes TBH. They are still very small and rather simple. What would be an example of improving them "less" so that they could sell for $100k? (I say this as the parent of a kid who would be looking at minimum $600k for a "nice" (clean and modestly updated) 600 sq ft apartment in a "desirable city neighborhood" in the northeast. 

[izabella]

37 minutes ago, dleighg said:

What would be an example of improving them "less" so that they could sell for $100k? (I say this as the parent of a kid who would be looking at minimum $600k for a "nice" (clean and modestly updated) 600 sq ft apartment in a "desirable city neighborhood" in the northeast. 

I don't know how much it would get the price down for a newly built house (which they pretty much are when they buy those falling-down places), but they could do carpet instead of hardwood floors throughout, Corian instead of marble counters, no backsplash, cheaper cabinets that aren't solid wood, less fancy fixtures for the lighting and bathrooms, cheaper appliances, and no big additions and additional stories on the house.

[bilgistic]

Because I apparently have nothing better to do today, I found this week's house. It's at 1502 South East Street. And also, because of a "glitch" of sorts in Google Maps, there's an old picture of the house from the road that ends at South East Street (Weghorst). A newer picture was taken that shows up when you navigate the map onto East Street. It shows four houses in a row under different stages of construction (one seems to be finished). The purple house from this week is the second from left and is just beyond the framing stage in the photo. I assume, then, that this is the "rainbow row" that Karen referred to this week. It's an homage to Rainbow Row in their annual vacation spot of Charleston.

Old picture/before renovations began (2014):

New picture/after renovations began (2018):

Have we seen the light blue house yet? I don't remember.

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

Isn't it the case that the $3k house is only $3k because it's pretty much falling down, has been empty for years, etc. etc.? Did you notice the shell of the house next door to the one they were doing this week? It had huge holes in the siding and was clearly not being lived in. I really don't think they are "over-improving" the homes TBH. They are still very small and rather simple. What would be an example of improving them "less" so that they could sell for $100k? (I say this as the parent of a kid who would be looking at minimum $600k for a "nice" (clean and modestly updated) 600 sq ft apartment in a "desirable city neighborhood" in the northeast. 

They specifically said that rising property prices had made their acquisition costs rise. They said that the house (the teardown) that would've cost them $3K a few years ago was now $100K (regardless of the condition). The market has dictated the price. What they aren't acknowledging is that they are adding to the market price escalation.

Included in the price is the land upon which the house sits. In some of these cases, then, it's not the condition of the house, but the value of the plot. If it's in coveted Fountain Square or Bates-Hendricks, I gather it's worth a fortune.

[CrazyInAlabama]

They said they own another property on the same street, so some of the other ones might belong to them also.   Gentrification or transitional neighborhoods do price the current residents out, but when a city's prices rise enough to make remodeling profitable, then it's going to happen.     The prices in Indianapolis have really been going up, especially in some neighborhoods.  

Edited June 20, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[ECM1231]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I've been thinking about this, and this season has given me a sense of the timeline because of Mina's pregnancy. There have been six episodes so far, and she's been some stage of pregnant in all of them.

So far, they've had at least six houses under construction in ~10 months. That means their profits, which are at least $25K per house, mean they are making at least $150K in less than a year. Also, as the Realtor selling the houses, Mina would also be getting 3% commission per sale, which would be over $8K on the $278K purple East Street house from Tuesday's episode. That's well over another ~$50K in under a year. Per an Instagram post of Tad's I saw a while back, Mina is making "millions" (and he wasn't being fairly compensated; I don't think he was being paid to be on the show at that time, which was a couple years ago), so they must be making much, much more than what I have just figured.

My parents live in a medium-sized city that is smaller than Indianapolis. The city put in a new water line on their street a few years ago, but each household had to pay $15K to hook into it. My folks couldn't afford it, so the new line stops before their house. On their dead-end street, there is one other house after theirs, so they don't have the new line either. I'm not sure how it works that they still have water, because they don't have a well, but, yeah, the city expecting you to pay for new lines and then pay for the water that runs through them is a special kind of bullshit. We already pay taxes for infrastructure, which should include water lines.

6 houses under construction in 10 months sounds like a lot of houses to flip. I'd think it would take at least 3 months from start to finish b/c they are basically rebuilding these houses; the aren't just cosmetic flips. Now, another question I'd always wondered about. On these shows, when then they say they have let's say a 150K renovation budget, does that include materials AND LABOR?  I mean, I guess it would b/c laborers don't work for free. So I guess they aren't doing too badly, even without the television show's money. But Karen is an attorney. I'd think a law practice would generate a lot more income than flipping but maybe this is her passion. 

BILGISTIC, that's nuts that the city expects the residents to kick in 15K to hook into a new water line!  

[3 is enough]

@ Biglistic was the $15K a lump sum, or was there an option for a special assessment?

When we bought our house 17 years ago,  it was new construction, and we had to pay the county for the cost of building the street.  We had payments of $355 twice a year, and I just recently made the final payment.  I don't remember how much we owed originally.  Asking people for a lump sum does not seem fair to me.

[MaKaM]

On 6/20/2019 at 5:18 PM, bilgistic said:

Something that has come to bother me about the show/the flips is them saying a neighborhood is "up-and-coming" or "transitioning", and that's in part because of their help. Those words/phrases are codes for gentrification. Consider that they paid $100K for the house last week (the teardown) and said it would've been $3K a couple years ago. That's crazy. People who have lived their whole lives in a modestly priced neighborhood aren't going to be able to pay tax bills when property values increase in their neighborhood and city-wide. I see it here in my city with sky-high housing prices and rent and destruction of affordable housing for new-home construction under the guise of "progress".

Mina and Karen say they want to improve their city, but buying and over-improving old houses that should cost $100K in neighborhoods with comparable $100K houses, and then selling the resulting $300,000 houses doesn't seem like the ethical way to do it.

Like, maybe along with doing their flips, they could help existing homeowners improve their homes structurally and cosmetically on a pro bono basis.

Yes their tax bills probably go up but they also get a stable neighborhood that raises their own property values. And they don't have to worry as much about meth-heads taking over some of the abandoned buildings and blowing the whole neighborhood up and a safer place for their kids/grandkids to play. If a shell with terrible foundations sells for 100k, a modest house should go for a lot more than that. And they aren't tearing down the houses and putting McMansions on the lot, they are keeping the houses in line with the looks of the neighborhood (except for Mina's dream house which just seemed to tower or loom over everything) but putting the higher end finishes in the inside to appeal to the young-with-money who are willing to take a chance on a neighborhood that was pretty sketchy before. There are good and bad points to gentrification/revitalization but if a neighborhood community was maintaining itself and not atrophying, there wouldn't be the opening for investors to swoop in. You want to keep the flippers out, you have to buy up the lots yourself (or collectively) and either rehab them or turn them into parks or whatever. Indiana also gives abatements (?) for poor and old people on property taxes. So the yuppy neighbors might be paying on 300k but the neighbors are still paying on closer to the 40k they bought the place at--(I think. My mom gets some sort of reduction for being old but her house hasn't gone up in value by a stunning amount in 30 years so I don't know what the discount accounts for)

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to having a few minutes of each episode dedicated to Tad and Austin hauling out junk from some granny's yard or Karen giving planting advice to a neighbor.