S03.E08: Slip

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, if they had just wtitten the guy as a lazy clock watcher, then Jimmy threatening to keep him tied up in paperwork, meeting with superiors, and city-paid lawyers, on baseless complaints, because Jimmy expertise as a lawyer dealing with city government gave him insight as to how to keep the bureaucracy chasing it's tail, it would have been better written.

It's not a big deal to me, but usually these writers don't make this sort of mistake.

Petty tyrants can back down pretty quickly when challenged. I think that the writing was fine. Slipping Jimmy is the one with the clever plans. Saul just gets from point A to point B the quickest and easiest way possible. Having Slipping Jimmy/Jimmy/Saul take the easy, brute force way rather than figuring out a clever plan is another way to show that he's getting much closer to Saul than Slipping Jimmy. 

Saul recognized the guy's type. A civil servant whose counting his time to retirement while having some fun breaking rules, by being a petty tyrant. Very few people stand up to the tyrant because its just not worth it. Jimmy's not the typical beaten down, low level drug dealer whose trying to get through his time as quickly and as easily as possible. 

I don't think the writing is lazy or a mistake. I think it says exactly what it intends to say. Saul is not always the charming type. He is good at seeing a weakness and exploiting it how ever he can. Charm, threats, brute force or even violence on occasion if necessary.  Saul is not the same as Jimmy. 

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

That didn't strike me as unrealistically dumb, given Jesse had the classic personality of a drug addict. The dumbest unrealistic thing that major characters did on Breaking Bad was not killing Jesse with a faked overdose in a drug house, when Walt was insisting that Gale was an unacceptable subordinate, and only Jesse would do, but I understand why the writers did it. The writers did not expect Jesse to be such a wildy popular character with the fans, the show wasn't yet the monster hit it was at the end of the show, and they decided killing him off was too risky. Show business is a business, first and foremost.  

I guess Walt could have sent Jesse to Belize at that point, but he dumped Gale and brought in Jesse to save Hank's career after his beatdown on Jesse.  Ah, what could have happened if Jesse had just gone inside and locked his door.  Fring, Walt and Mike, with a great supporting cast of Tyrus, Victor and Gale could have taken over the world together.  :)

[Bannon]

Just now, scenario said:

Petty tyrants can back down pretty quickly when challenged. I think that the writing was fine. Slipping Jimmy is the one with the clever plans. Saul just gets from point A to point B the quickest and easiest way possible. Having Slipping Jimmy/Jimmy/Saul take the easy, brute force way rather than figuring out a clever plan is another way to show that he's getting much closer to Saul than Slipping Jimmy. 

Saul recognized the guy's type. A civil servant whose counting his time to retirement while having some fun breaking rules, by being a petty tyrant. Very few people stand up to the tyrant because its just not worth it. Jimmy's not the typical beaten down, low level drug dealer whose trying to get through his time as quickly and as easily as possible. 

I don't think the writing is lazy or a mistake. I think it says exactly what it intends to say. Saul is not always the charming type. He is good at seeing a weakness and exploiting it how ever he can. Charm, threats, brute force or even violence on occasion if necessary.  Saul is not the same as Jimmy. 

The challenge wasn't credible, though, because the city employee knows, if he has an IQ which passes 50, that the city has to pay for hs legal defense, if he is personally sued for his actions on the job. They shouldn't have written that nonsense into the scene.  I wasn't commenting on any comparisons between Jimmy and Saul.

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I guess Walt could have sent Jesse to Belize at that point, but he dumped Gale and brought in Jesse to save Hank's career after his beatdown on Jesse.  Ah, what could have happened if Jesse had just gone inside and locked his door.  Fring, Walt and Mike, with a great supporting cast of Tyrus, Victor and Gale could have taken over the world together.  :)

The point is that Gus and Mike should have just staged a supposedly accidental drug overdose of Jesse, so Walt doesn't think Jesse was murdered, thus removing the possibility of Jesse replacing Gale, without enraging Walt by a murder of Jesse which Walt did not sanction.  The audience won that decision, and that's understandable. 

[ShadowFacts]

32 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think there would be zero reason for Hector to suspect Nacho and he is currently his most trusted employee.  If Mike had called in a tip about a cartel murder, then, yes, Hector would have reason to suspect all who were involved or knew about the murder.  But, the way he called it in should not make Hector suspect anyone ratted him out. Also, if he had been ratted out, you would expect the police to make arrests or at least search his businesses and home and question people.  There would be no good reason for a rat within his organization to call in the body, without also implicating Hector.   Mike's plan was perfect. 

Exactly -- that's what crime bosses always have to be worried about.  Informants.  Besides, the way Mike called it in may never become public knowledge.  Maybe it hits the news just the way Mike described it, maybe that is withheld.  Even if the authorities never make a connection to Hector, he still always has to worry about loose lips. 

26 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I sure as heck hope not.  Anything that Jimmy touches seems to turn to shit.   Kim really must have a thing for the "bad" boy.   I hope she moves on before Jimmy drags her down with him.  I just don't want to see her destroyed by Jimmy, but I can't help thinking that is exactly what will happen.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to watch.  I was a little surprised at her offers towards keeping Jimmy afloat.  I was getting the vibe from last episode that though she is sort of fascinated by his badness, she is also still keeping some boundaries.  Apparently not.  I don't find it unbelievable, as it happens in real life, but I don't enjoy watching it so much. 

[Primetimer]

As Slippin' Jimmy returns to triumph over a small business and a government bully, how do the characters rank?

View the full article

[MisterBluxom]

In the following article, the author refers to Nacho practicing his "reverse pick pocketing" skills. I wonder what those skills would be called.

When it comes to opposites, there's "reap" and "sew" (as you "sew" so shall you "reap"). Then there's "pick" and "plant" (you plant something and then you pick it when harvesting). 

So I wonder if the opposite of a "pick pocket" might be a "plant pocket". After all, you do plant something in the pocket.

So, a "plant pocket" works for me.

[atlantaloves]

Somebody help me with the very first scene of the episode, was that from the past, or is Jimmy still doing short cons to get money to keep his law office open? If it was a blast from the past, why did they stick it in there pray tell? Anyway, that was one terrific episode. Don't mess with Slipping Jimmy, cause he is just about to become Saul! Oh oh oh, and that Nacho! Whoa, don't mess with his family....love it!

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I sure as heck hope not.  Anything that Jimmy touches seems to turn to shit.   Kim really must have a thing for the "bad" boy.   I hope she moves on before Jimmy drags her down with him.  I just don't want to see her destroyed by Jimmy, but I can't help thinking that is exactly what will happen.

I think it will be in character for Kim to have Jimmy work on the Oil Field case. She already knows about Jimmy falsifying evidence and has participated in two scams herself. She also didn't break up with him after getting burned over the Sandpiper TV commercial. I think she sticks with Jimmy because he is the bad boy, since the alternative is someone of the Howard Hamlin mold. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by PeterPirate

[scenario]

9 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Somebody help me with the very first scene of the episode, was that from the past, or is Jimmy still doing short cons to get money to keep his law office open? If it was a blast from the past, why did they stick it in there pray tell? Anyway, that was one terrific episode. Don't mess with Slipping Jimmy, cause he is just about to become Saul! Oh oh oh, and that Nacho! Whoa, don't mess with his family....love it!

The scene was in the past. The other character in the scene died of a heart attack in an earlier episode so it can't be recent. 

[scenario]

56 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The challenge wasn't credible, though, because the city employee knows, if he has an IQ which passes 50, that the city has to pay for hs legal defense, if he is personally sued for his actions on the job. They shouldn't have written that nonsense into the scene.  I wasn't commenting on any comparisons between Jimmy and Saul.

The point is that Gus and Mike should have just staged a supposedly accidental drug overdose of Jesse, so Walt doesn't think Jesse was murdered, thus removing the possibility of Jesse replacing Gale, without enraging Walt by a murder of Jesse which Walt did not sanction.  The audience won that decision, and that's understandable. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

I'm looking at a threat with two levels. The first level is what Jimmy actually said and I agree with you that it's at its best marginally credible. But it has just enough credibility that if the city employee tries to get Jimmy in trouble for it, he looks like a tyrant and someone that's trying to silence a whistleblower.  

The second level threat that both of them read is that Jimmy is saying essentially, I'm a lawyer. I know the rules better than you do. If you don't do what I want, I will make your life miserable and I'll do it in a way where you can't get back at me.   That threat is much more credible.

If you've ever worked in a bureaucracy, you'd know how easy it is to manipulate the system if you know what you're doing and are ruthless about it.  

[AuntiePam]

I really like that the Good Samaritan was found, and how he was found -- the metal detector picked up on his wedding ring.  Someone would have been looking for him, wondering what happened.  

Jimmy is such a great character.  It's hard to stay sympathetic to him -- his motives seem to be all over the place.  Would he have helped that drug dealer if no money was involved?  (I do believe the kid in hospital story -- he called the kid's mom to say he was on his way.) 

I didn't care for the slip-and-fall.  Jimmy could have just cut his losses and accepted a lower payment for the commercials.  It's almost like he was jealous that the two guys did some homework and figured out their own angle. 

Giancarlo Esposito will be on Fresh Air tomorrow, Wednesday, June 7.  Check your NPR schedule.  It's 11 a.m. CST.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Mike finding the Good Samaritan to give his family closure made me think of Lydia.

Who is this "Good Samaritan" everyone is talking about? What am I not remembering?

Quote

With Chuck being so sympathetic this episode and Jimmy so ugly to everyone, I'm wondering if the writers are trying to turn us into liking Chuck best by the end of the season.

They will never succeed with me. Can't stand Chuck, never will be able to. I can barely tolerate him as it is, and I just keep hanging in there waiting and hoping for his gruesome death.

I hope we've seen the last of the Sklar brothers - arguably the least funny "comics" in the world. Whenever I see them listed as panelists on @midnight I just skip it. Can't stand either one.

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, scenario said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

I'm looking at a threat with two levels. The first level is what Jimmy actually said and I agree with you that it's at its best marginally credible. But it has just enough credibility that if the city employee tries to get Jimmy in trouble for it, he looks like a tyrant and someone that's trying to silence a whistleblower.  

The second level threat that both of them read is that Jimmy is saying essentially, I'm a lawyer. I know the rules better than you do. If you don't do what I want, I will make your life miserable and I'll do it in a way where you can't get back at me.   That threat is much more credible.

If you've ever worked in a bureaucracy, you'd know how easy it is to manipulate the system if you know what you're doing and are ruthless about it.  

I agree that is the way the threat should have been framed, but I thought the writing did so poorly, in a way that is unchracteristic  for this show. It isn't even marginally credible to threaten a city employee with legal costs arising from a lawsuit due to alleged behavior while performing the job. City employees are willing to do their jobs in good measure because they know they won't incur legal bills if they are sued for behavior on the job.  When you make a completely noncredible threat, the rest of what you are sayng or implying tends to get ignored. Like I said, it isn't a big deal to me, but the dialogue needed sharpening.

[milner]

I completely agree there is nothing the writers can do to make me like or sympathize with Chuck. He is despicable and though he may be a little down now, the minute he sees a chance or an opportunity to hurt jimmy he will be back to his old ways 

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, milner said:

I completely agree there is nothing the writers can do to make me like or sympathize with Chuck. He is despicable and though he may be a little down now, the minute he sees a chance or an opportunity to hurt jimmy he will be back to his old ways 

Yeah, I'm convinced that the only reason he is getting better is because he knows if he doesn't stop his delusion, he has no chance to exact revenge on Jimmy. He has to become mentally healthy to get his pound of flesh, so he starts weaning himself from his false belief, which he previously used to control Jimmy and Howard, among others.

[milner]

Exactly, Bannon

[scenario]

17 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I agree that is the way the threat should have been framed, but I thought the writing did so poorly, in a way that is unchracteristic  for this show. It isn't even marginally credible to threaten a city employee with legal costs arising from a lawsuit due to alleged behavior while performing the job. City employees are willing to do their jobs in good measure because they know they won't incur legal bills if they are sued for behavior on the job.  When you make a completely noncredible threat, the rest of what you are sayng or implying tends to get ignored. Like I said, it isn't a big deal to me, but the dialogue needed sharpening.

That I can agree with totally. I've worked in bureaucracies all my life and I've learned to read between the lines in ways other people don't. It should have been more specific. But I think he had to imply it rather than outright say it. 

[Tatum]

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, the scene where Kim, after conversing with guitar strumming Jimmy, decides to handle the oil field guy's regulatory issues herself, as opposed to referring it out, could go two ways. It may set the stage where she gets spread too thin, what with her handling MV's regulatory issues with expanding into multiple states, she makes a major mistake, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Or, she does a great job with MV and oil guy, and starts to be seen as a real up and comer in the regulatory compliance subset of the legal trade (which of course has always been part of Chuck's big reputation), and this becomes her ticket out of Albuquerque, maybe to a city as big as Houston, Dallas, or Phoenix.

I really think the severance between Jimmy and Kim needs to produce a feeling of betrayal within Jimmy, no matter how undeserved, in order to fully complete the transformation to Saul, so we'll see how it goes. Of course, what would make Jimmy feel most betrayed is if Kim ended up back at HHM as a partner. Could they be setting the stage for this gigantic reversal, after the acrimony between Kim and Howard in last night's episode? Perhaps!

 

If the above is true, I really hope it's the second, and not the first. I don't want to see someone who is willing to work 20 hour days and appears to have some moral compass and also a sense of humor to suffer a humiliating career ending setback. Even if it's her own fault for taking on more than she can handle.

I am thinking though (pure speculation) that while Jimmy feeling betrayed by Kim might be a solid push to Saul Goodman, Kim's not getting away that easily. I am afraid that something is going to happen to her (physically or professionally) that Jimmy feels is his fault, and that is irreparable, and convinces Jimmy that having personal ties to anyone is a mistake, more for that person's own sake.

But because I like Kim, I'd much prefer to think that she just decides Jimmy's going down a road she doesn't want to be on, and they just go their separate ways and lose touch. The only issue with that though, is I think Jimmy would choose Kim over anything else, and he would at least try to stay on the right side of the law, if losing Kim was the alternative.  And if she just leaves without giving him a chance to change, I don't know that that would be enough to deter him from ever entering another romantic relationship.

If BCS is not picked up for S4- are they just going to leave us in limbo?

[PeterPirate]

It would have been more standard fare, and probably more believable, had Jimmy talked about his connections with the DA's office.  Then again, someone with those types of connections would not have been out picking up trash, either. 

Changing the topic, Jimmy committed a crime with his stunt at the music store. Real life people have gone to prison for such things, although they often incorporate the use of a severed finger. 

[Tatum]

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is this "Good Samaritan" everyone is talking about? What am I not remembering?

 

Last season when Mike stranded Hector's truck driver, the truck driver waited out in the desert (I think tied up?) until a man came along, helped him, and gave him a phone to call for help. Hector showed up (the good samaritan was waiting with him) and shot the guy dead in order to leave no witnesses. Mike felt somewhat responsible for that as it was he who left the guy in the desert. Nacho told Mike about it in what I think was one of the most understated shows of compassion Nacho has demonstrated. He knew Mike would be upset, but rather subtly implied that Mike needed to leave Hector alone if he didn't want to cause more collateral damage for innocent people.

 

ETA: the above scene was not in the show. Mike left the driver and went on his merry way. Later, he was talking to Nacho and asked what had happened with the driver. Nacho told Mike that someone did stop and help the driver and was killed for his trouble.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Tatum

[AuntiePam]

53 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is this "Good Samaritan" everyone is talking about? What am I not remembering?

 

Quote from an interview with one of the show's directors:

 

"We never saw him but he was spoken about. He was a guy that wasn’t in the game when Mike tied the ice cream truck driver and left him by the side of the road the good Samaritan stopped to help him. Nacho told him at the end of season 2 that Hector killed him because he didn’t want any loose ends."

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

I really like that the Good Samaritan was found, and how he was found -- the metal detector picked up on his wedding ring.  Someone would have been looking for him, wondering what happened. 

Some of the characters may believe the metal detector picked up on the wedding ring as Mike said when he called in the tip. But I have to question that was how Mike actually found the body because we saw about one dozen attempts to dig for the body. It seemed that Mike had broken ground in about a dozen different places and if there was metal found in each one of those places, it would seem doubtful the metal detector was responsible for finding the body because it would have found metal in each of those locations. If that's the case, Mike would have had to broken ground in hundreds of places before finding the body.

Is it possible that Mike knew exactly where the body was and just broke ground in so many places to try and make the authorities believe his story?

[Eulipian 5k]

I agree the whole law suit threat with the Community Service jerk was a bridge too far. But the episode seemed to set up a theme of Jimmy going back for another bite of an old, used, apple. The cold open is one. How long after the fact, after the store is closed down, after they are adults , are they reaching back to an old scam to run an the same scam again?

The same with the back injury; he already used that gag to get his "Elite Package" of ads sold to the Skylar twins, then he got a guitar, then he's using the same injury to threaten the CS jerk. Plus, both Jimmy and the CS jerk at first figured, THERE WAS NO BABY. (Jimmy told the guy he knew he was conning the CS jerk) That phone call after ward sounded like a call to a Spooge or Sneaky Pete type.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Eulipian 5k

[Jextella]

As to the caliber of writing, etc.  I have to agree that there were a few scenes both in the last episode and this episode that were a little out of synch with the rest of the show and seemed like quick fixes.

There could be reasons for these kinds of things that don't point to bad writing necessarily.  For example, Vince has said in interviews that the plan was to turn Saul to Jimmy after Season 1 if I recall correctly, but once they got going, they liked the Jimmy character so much, the kept him around longer than planned. If these boards are any indication, many are ready for the gang-bang stuff and weary of Chuck and Jimmy.  Ratings took a dive season 3 so maybe the writers had to make quick fixes to bring the drama in sooner than planned.

The other thing is that I think BCS is an inherently different show than BB.  Saul is not the same as Walter nor does Saul actually become a manufacturer much less dealer in the meth trade.  Seems the action would be less as a result.  Could be the writers need to adjust to a show with a different story and pace and haven't quite nailed it.  

I'm guessing we're seeing a little of both.  Remaining two Season 3 episodes will tell the tale.  I do hope the show is renewed!  It's the only scripted thing on TV I watch!

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Jextella said:

As to the caliber of writing, etc.  I have to agree that there were a few scenes both in the last episode and this episode that were a little out of synch with the rest of the show and seemed like quick fixes.

There could be reasons for these kinds of things that don't point to bad writing necessarily.  For example, Vince has said in interviews that the plan was to turn Saul to Jimmy after Season 1 if I recall correctly, but once they got going, they liked the Jimmy character so much, the kept him around longer than planned. If these boards are any indication, many are ready for the gang-bang stuff and weary of Chuck and Jimmy.  Ratings took a dive season 3 so maybe the writers had to make quick fixes to bring the drama in sooner than planned.

The other thing is that I think BCS is an inherently different show than BB.  Saul is not the same as Walter nor does Saul actually become a manufacturer much less dealer in the meth trade.  Seems the action would be less as a result.  Could be the writers need to adjust to a show with a different story and pace and haven't quite nailed it.  

I'm guessing we're seeing a little of both.  Remaining two Season 3 episodes will tell the tale.  I do hope the show is renewed!  It's the only scripted thing on TV I watch!

It's still AMC's highest rated show not featuring animated rotting corpses, so unless either side makes unexpected financial demands, I'd really be suprised at a cancellation, especially given the amount of equity Gilligan has built up in the industry generally, and AMC specifically. Pretty sure the shooting was completed last September/October, with no reshoots, so nothing we are seeing is in response to ratings this season.

[Jextella]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

It's still AMC's highest rated show not featuring animated rotting corpses, so unless either side makes unexpected financial demands, I'd really be suprised at a cancellation, especially given the amount of equity Gilligan has built up in the industry generally, and AMC specifically. Pretty sure the shooting was completed last September/October, with no reshoots, so nothing we are seeing is in response to ratings this season.

I so don't get the appeal of those kinds of shows, but man, I must be in the minority.

Vince said an interview the scripts were "mostly written" prior to the elections.  That means some weren't done....he didn't mention timing of filming in the interview, though.  I think it was the interview in The Atlantic in the media thread.

[Bannon]

24 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I so don't get the appeal of those kinds of shows, but man, I must be in the minority.

Vince said an interview the scripts were "mostly written" prior to the elections.  That means some weren't done....he didn't mention timing of filming in the interview, though.  I think it was the interview in The Atlantic in the media thread.

Yeah, I wasn't aware of that, so who knows?

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

Some of the characters may believe the metal detector picked up on the wedding ring as Mike said when he called in the tip. But I have to question that was how Mike actually found the body because we saw about one dozen attempts to dig for the body. It seemed that Mike had broken ground in about a dozen different places and if there was metal found in each one of those places, it would seem doubtful the metal detector was responsible for finding the body because it would have found metal in each of those locations. If that's the case, Mike would have had to broken ground in hundreds of places before finding the body.

Is it possible that Mike knew exactly where the body was and just broke ground in so many places to try and make the authorities believe his story?

Well, he did immediately mark a particular location with a stake and then start digging up other patches of dirt nearby. My original assumption was that Nacho gave him only a rough location and he was just marking that spot and searching nearby for the exact location of the grave, but in retrospect it makes sense that he had the exact location, but deliberately dug up the rest of the area to establish his cover story and only then dug up the body.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

Well, he did immediately mark a particular location with a stake and then start digging up other patches of dirt nearby. My original assumption was that Nacho gave him only a rough location and he was just marking that spot and searching nearby for the exact location of the grave, but in retrospect it makes sense that he had the exact location, but deliberately dug up the rest of the area to establish his cover story and only then dug up the body.

If that were true, then he wouldn't have needed the metal detector at all -- nobody's watching him.  I think your original assumption is correct.

[LoneHaranguer]

3 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I really like that the Good Samaritan was found, and how he was found -- the metal detector picked up on his wedding ring.  Someone would have been looking for him, wondering what happened.

When Mike was on the phone, didn't he say he found a female body?

[Tatum]

24 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

If that were true, then he wouldn't have needed the metal detector at all -- nobody's watching him.  I think your original assumption is correct.

Well, I think he would still want there to be a bunch of holes though so it looks like someone was randomly digging, trying to follow the metal detection rather than knowing exactly where to dig.

 

ETA: nevermind, I see what you're saying.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Tatum

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Some of the characters may believe the metal detector picked up on the wedding ring as Mike said when he called in the tip. But I have to question that was how Mike actually found the body because we saw about one dozen attempts to dig for the body. It seemed that Mike had broken ground in about a dozen different places and if there was metal found in each one of those places, it would seem doubtful the metal detector was responsible for finding the body because it would have found metal in each of those locations. If that's the case, Mike would have had to broken ground in hundreds of places before finding the body.

Is it possible that Mike knew exactly where the body was and just broke ground in so many places to try and make the authorities believe his story?

It would make sense to did extra holes, even if he knew the location, but then why use the metal detector at all instead of just digging random holes and then digging up the body at the known location?  I also doubt Nacho would be able to give him such a precise location of the grave that he would not need the metal detector.  It's not like he put the precise GPS coordinates on a lottery ticket. :)

20 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

When Mike was on the phone, didn't he say he found a female body?

No, he called it a "dead body".  He did not specify gender.  

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

If that were true, then he wouldn't have needed the metal detector at all -- nobody's watching him.  I think your original assumption is correct.

I wondered about the marker, and I guessed it was just a reference point to remind him where he began the search, so he wouldn't keep covering the same ground over and over.  Any treasure hunters out there who can give us some insight?

[jww]

1.     If it was that hot why would Hector be wearing a jacket instead of just a guayabera?  I doubt the ac in the old  restaurant was that cold.

2.     The McGill  family store was still  vacant and never rented  after 10+ years?

3.     Pre-1964 silver quarters had .18 oz of silver and  save for a couple months 79/80 during the silver panic not worth that much.  Today they sell for about $3.  I worked cash registers in the 70's and never thought to check for them, there were millions in circulation.

4.     If the coin was that valuable Jimmy would have pocketed it.

5.     Did Chuck never work in the store and see what a sap his father was? 

6.     From flashbacks we know Jimmy started stealing in 1973 when he was about 12.  At that time Chuck  should have been in his 30’s  and an established attorney.  In the current BCS universe Chuck is at least 60(McKean is 69) and Jimmy is suppose to be 41.  Which means they never had a real brother relationship-no sharing a room/confidential talks  ala Wally/Beaver at best  they may have had a  Dutch uncle relationship who seldom saw each other.

7.     You would think they would  have buried the body a little further from the highway.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

When it comes to opposites, there's "reap" and "sew" (as you "sew" so shall you "reap"). Then there's "pick" and "plant" (you plant something and then you pick it when harvesting). 

Probably "sow"?

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

 

16 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The BS he used on the douche drill sergeant supervisor was also off.  A guy like that, who saw right through the drug dealer (it was made clear he needed to be somewhere to deal, not be with his baby) and any number of slackers, would be smart enough to understand he would be covered by the government with legal representation for acting under his job.

I may have to watch again, but I thought the drug dealer was being honest about needing to see his baby. Yes, Jimmy saw thru his lie that he didn't have any money, that he had a wad in his sock, but I believed the reason he gave for needing time off.

5 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Jimmy is such a great character.  It's hard to stay sympathetic to him -- his motives seem to be all over the place.  Would he have helped that drug dealer if no money was involved?  (I do believe the kid in hospital story -- he called the kid's mom to say he was on his way.) 

I think he called the person who called him about the drug deal.  Besides the thousands of dollars in his sock, which pointed to him being a drug dealer (although a drug dealer can have a child), he didn't deny it when Jimmy called him something that rhymed with drug dealer.  Mostly, though, he said his kid caught pneumonia in daycare.  That's just a weird way to say that a kid has pneumonia, in my opinion. Do other kids in the daycare have pneumonia, and was that fact then publicized? It's not like catching chicken pox.  Plus, Jimmy has a good eye for this sort of thing.  The guy wasn't paying Jimmy $700 so that he could go to the hospital.  He didn't even try to bargain him down. He was trying to get to a deal where a lot more than $700 was at stake.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Dev F]

24 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It would make sense to did extra holes, even if he knew the location, but then why use the metal detector at all instead of just digging random holes and then digging up the body at the known location?

Well, the best way to ensure that the evidence matches the cover story as closely as possible would be to actually do what he claimed to be doing. That way the dig pattern would be appropriately randomized, there'd be random metal junk in some of the holes, etc. It would be in keeping with Mike's MO to be that tooth-achingly thorough. Though there's also something to be said for the simplest explanation being the most likely, so I'm not sure which explanation to prefer.

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Well, the best way to ensure that the evidence matches the cover story as closely as possible would be to actually do what he claimed to be doing. That way the dig pattern would be appropriately randomized, there'd be random metal junk in some of the holes, etc. It would be in keeping with Mike's MO to be that tooth-achingly thorough. Though there's also something to be said for the simplest explanation being the most likely, so I'm not sure which explanation to prefer.

I really couldn't tell from the way the scene was shot with the fadeaways or whatever you call them, if Mike was zigzagging around randomly.  If he was, it wouldn't make sense to me that he was looking for a body that way.  I was thinking while watching that he should be using a system, like quadrants, particularly since he seems to have a military background.  If he's calling anonymously why should he care much about making a really convincing scene of randomness?  So it is just not clear to me at all whether that is how he went about (inefficiently) finding the body, or that he was staging it to look like an arrowhead hunt. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 hours ago, rue721 said:

She could hire a couple associates to work in Jimmy's half of the office. Sublet the space from him.

LOL he would freak out at the suggestion. But she's got too much money and too much work, and there is an unused second office sitting right there...

I don't think she would want to take on the risk of being responsible for other salaries.  She has one steady client now and the possibility of a second, but if something goes wrong with Mesa Verde, she has no business to speak of.  She didn't want to be fully responsible for Francesca's paycheck, even though she can probably afford it.

From the recap:

In the cold open scene, we saw Jimmy and Rico breaking into Jimmy's parents' former store, now long since closed and fallen to ruin, to retrieve Jimmy's coin collection from the drop ceiling so that they can use an Indian head penny in a short con; while Rico speaks warmly of Jimmy's parents and what a shame it was that they couldn't keep the store, Jimmy contemptuously describes his father as being too soft-hearted and honest to do what it took to stay in business. This seems to be the moment Jimmy realizes he could be stand to be less soft-hearted, and give up his senior citizen clientele for a class of person who might need Jimmy to do stuff for them that's a little more unsavory than writing up their wills, but who will pay for his services in cash, and immediately.

It might be the moment when he realizes that he could be stand to be less soft-hearted, although I think he had felt that way for a long time, but it is definitely not the time when he decided to give up his senior citizen clientele for a class of person....since that scene takes place years before he was a lawyer and had senior clientele.

[scenario]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I really couldn't tell from the way the scene was shot with the fadeaways or whatever you call them, if Mike was zigzagging around randomly.  If he was, it wouldn't make sense to me that he was looking for a body that way.  I was thinking while watching that he should be using a system, like quadrants, particularly since he seems to have a military background.  If he's calling anonymously why should he care much about making a really convincing scene of randomness?  So it is just not clear to me at all whether that is how he went about (inefficiently) finding the body, or that he was staging it to look like an arrowhead hunt. 

I think a little of both. He probably had something like a hundred yards away from the highway at a certain landmark. He probably knew where the body was within a hundred yards or so. He didn't know exactly where the body is so he used a strategy of looking that someone using a metal detector would use to look for arrow heads. He had the metal detector just in case someone did notice. So if a cop happened to drive by and see him while he was looking for the body, the police officer's story would match what he told them on the telephone.  

Also, if the FBI or an elite big city forensic team got involved, the search pattern and remains of metal still in the ground would look exactly like what he said it was. If there were a bunch of holes with no metal in them and the forensic team noticed it, they might start go looking for Mike. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm not usually much for slapstick and I don't like to see people get hurt in real life, but I did have to laugh at that, it was so extreme.  The stuntman surely felt that one.

I assume it was a stuntman taking the fall, but I re-watched carefully and didn't see a cut.  Maybe Bob Odenkirk fell onto some special kind of flooring?

Edited June 6, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, scenario said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

I'm looking at a threat with two levels. The first level is what Jimmy actually said and I agree with you that it's at its best marginally credible. But it has just enough credibility that if the city employee tries to get Jimmy in trouble for it, he looks like a tyrant and someone that's trying to silence a whistleblower.  

The second level threat that both of them read is that Jimmy is saying essentially, I'm a lawyer. I know the rules better than you do. If you don't do what I want, I will make your life miserable and I'll do it in a way where you can't get back at me.   That threat is much more credible.

If you've ever worked in a bureaucracy, you'd know how easy it is to manipulate the system if you know what you're doing and are ruthless about it.  

Remember, Jimmy accused the CS of deliberate acts, such as intentional infliction of emotional distress. In all likelihood, the city would not have to defend him under those circumstances.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

17 minutes ago, scenario said:

I think a little of both. He probably had something like a hundred yards away from the highway at a certain landmark. He probably knew where the body was within a hundred yards or so. He didn't know exactly where the body is so he used a strategy of looking that someone using a metal detector would use to look for arrow heads. He had the metal detector just in case someone did notice. So if a cop happened to drive by and see him while he was looking for the body, the police officer's story would match what he told them on the telephone.  

Also, if the FBI or an elite big city forensic team got involved, the search pattern and remains of metal still in the ground would look exactly like what he said it was. If there were a bunch of holes with no metal in them and the forensic team noticed it, they might start go looking for Mike. 

Also, he called the Tribal Police directly after uncovering the body.  If he thought he knew exactly where the body was, he would have uncovered it first just to be sure he wasn't wasting his time, and then sought out another dozen metal sites to dig up to make the search look authentic.

As we know, you always find a lost object in the last place you look.

[iMonrey]

Quote

"We never saw him but he was spoken about. He was a guy that wasn’t in the game when Mike tied the ice cream truck driver and left him by the side of the road the good Samaritan stopped to help him. Nacho told him at the end of season 2 that Hector killed him because he didn’t want any loose ends."

I have no recollection of that whatsoever. Thanks for filling me in. It seems I don't pay nearly as much attention to this show as it thinks I do (or should). 

[Gobi]

5 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Also, he called the Tribal Police directly after uncovering the body.  If he thought he knew exactly where the body was, he would have uncovered it first just to be sure he wasn't wasting his time, and then sought out another dozen metal sites to dig up to make the search look authentic.

As we know, you always find a lost object in the last place you look.

I think Mike really was using the metal detector. He was shown digging when it gave a signal, and then looking annoyed when he found an old can. He knew the general location, in my opinion, but not the precise spot.

[Bannon]

27 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Remember, Jimmy accused the CS of deliberate acts, such as intentional infliction of emotional distress. In all likelihood, the city would not have to defend him under those circumstances.

I don't think that is the case, at least not in New Mexico. It is incredibly difficult for the city to escape the requirement of paying for a civil defense of a city employee, for behavior on the job. It really almost always requires a conviction in criminal court for a very serious crime.

[rue721]

Jimmy's accusations were bullshit. Even Jimmy acknowledged that they were bullshit and he would essentially be filing frivolous lawsuits just to make the guy suffer.

The foreman wasn't doing anything wrong -- No, you cannot lie on the ground and then get community service hours for that. No, you cannot just leave in the middle of the shift and get community service hours for that. IMO the foreman is putting his job at much more risk by falsifying hours than he ever did by being a stickler about docking people for hours not worked properly.

I didn't really have a problem with how Jimmy's side of it was written, though -- he's in a dark place and he's acting ugly because of it. He's trying to be very hardened. In a way, IMO it's endearing that his version of being very hardened and ugly is essentially being like, "you're being mean and I'll show you how bad you're hurting me and then you'll pay!"

But then again, Chuck does the same exact thing -- uses the threat of being sick or hurt to get control over other people.

Anyway, I just think it would have made more sense if the foreman hadn't actually backed down. Everything other than that was fine IMO. I think it would also have been a more interesting scene if Jimmy's schtick hadn't worked. But your mileage will vary.

Edited June 7, 2017 by rue721

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

When Mike was on the phone, didn't he say he found a female body?

 

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It would make sense to did extra holes, even if he knew the location, but then why use the metal detector at all instead of just digging random holes and then digging up the body at the known location?  I also doubt Nacho would be able to give him such a precise location of the grave that he would not need the metal detector.  It's not like he put the precise GPS coordinates on a lottery ticket. :)

No, he called it a "dead body".  He did not specify gender.  

Both the previously.tv recapper and I thought it looked like a woman's hand. Are we sure it's the Good Samaritan?

[riverheightsnancy]

The foreman did do something wrong, he did not allow people to read the waiver. He told them to just sign it without reading. Plus, he would dock people arbitrary hours when on the phone or "appear" to not be working. I would imagine that he does all kinds of things to be an asshole to the people working. How did he know that Jimmy wasn't really hurt?  I have worked with addicts and people sometimes do try to get over, one has to be firm, but also reasonable. We have rules, but we also have to be aware of our own biases and behaviors towards those people. This guy probably hates those people and does things to be an asshole, and get away with it, because he can. Who are they gonna believe? The people doing community service or the guy in charge. This is very similar to allegations of abuse by "criminals" against cops. No one believes the "criminal", but in cases they are telling the truth. 

[Bannon]

41 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Jimmy's accusations were bullshit. Even Jimmy acknowledged that they were bullshit and he would essentially be filing frivolous lawsuits just to make the guy suffer.

The foreman wasn't doing anything wrong -- No, you cannot lie on the ground and then get community service hours for that. No, you cannot just leave in the middle of the shift and get community service hours for that. IMO the foreman is putting his job at much more risk by falsifying hours than he ever did by being a stickler about docking people for hours not worked properly.

I didn't really have a problem with how Jimmy's side of it was written, though -- he's in a dark place and he's acting ugly because of it. He's trying to be very hardened. In a way, IMO it's endearing that his version of being very hardened and ugly is essentially being like, "you're being mean and I'll show you how bad you're hurting me and then you'll pay!"

But then again, Chuck does the same exact thing -- uses the threat of being sick or hurt to get control over other people.

Anyway, I just think it would have made more sense if the foreman hadn't actually backed down. Everything other than that was fine IMO. I think it would also have been a more interesting scene if Jimmy's schtick hadn't worked. But your mileage will vary.

I understand your point, but I think the purpose of the scene was to drive home to Jimmy that even the lowest level drug dealer hss decent cash to pay for very basic legal assistance. This helps provide the impetus for Jimmy deciding that this will be his preferred clientele.

I do wish they had more cleverly portrayed  a way for Jimmy to be paid 700 simoleons for 5 minutes work.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bannon

[rue721]

Quote

I would imagine that he does all kinds of things to be an asshole to the people working. How did he know that Jimmy wasn't really hurt?

I mean, maybe the $2,000-in-his-sock guy really had a sick baby and maybe Jimmy's back really was messed up (in fact, I'm pretty sure Jimmy did hurt his back), but while they're taking care of their families or their health or whatever, they aren't going to be getting credit for completing their service hours. I don't really see what's wrong with that.

Lying on the ground actually isn't completing your service hours. Talking on the phone and making deals isn't completing your service hours. Meeting up with your drug dealer OR going to see your baby in the hospital are also not completing your service hours. That's inconvenient but not really unfair IMO. You get credit for the time you spend picking up trash, so you pick up trash (and all you do is pick up trash) for X number of hours and then you're good to go. If other stuff comes up, maybe it takes a while for you to get your hours -- but you can still eventually get them. It's not rocket science, and it's not personal. Jimmy freaking out over this is Mike and the fucking stickers all over again.

A couple years ago, I was a supervisor in a restaurant, and my grandma had a stroke. I had to call out very suddenly that evening while I helped get her to the hospital, figure out what was going on, etc etc etc. I didn't get paid for that shift, because I didn't work it. In fact, my bosses were really pissed off, because they were shorthanded that night. Sucks! I needed that money. I also didn't need the aggravation my bosses gave me. But honestly, whatever my reason, I didn't show up at work, so I didn't get credit (or money!) for working. You can bet that I wasn't happy about it. But it wasn't really unfair. Except maybe in a cosmic sense. ;)

But just like Jimmy couldn't just eat the $5 when he showed up at the parking attendant booth without enough stickers, he can't just let the docked hours go.

Jimmy is a hard worker, bright, and completely capable of this dumbshit job of picking up garbage by the side of the road (I mean come on. This is not beyond his capabilities), so really, the only reason this is even an issue is that he's pathologically bad with authority.

Well, and it's also an issue because he constantly overloads himself, constantly puts himself under as much (needless!) pressure as possible. How does this man have no job and yet is still so busy he has to change out of the trunk of his car? ;) And this is after secretly completing law school and passing the bar while working full time. And after hustling for as many public defender overflow clients as possible while also taking care of Chuck. He can't even make a commercial with a flag in it without concocting a whole scheme for why he needs to trespass and film at an elementary school FFS.

Most people would just keep their heads down and get the community service done, but it's like this whole emotional ~thing~ with him, where he's got to make things as hard as possible for himself and has to position himself in opposition with the whole world. (I actually like this about him, but it's also so counterproductive that it's a little frustrating/strange to watch).

Kim even brought up that Jimmy should rest up his back, then deal with getting his hours, then think about the next step financially. I mean, that would be sensible. He's driving himself into the ground for no practical reason, just emotional reasons. I don't even really know what those emotional reasons are, though, to be honest.

To be fair, though, I think at that point, he was also pretty upset when Kim offered to cover him at the office because he wanted emotional support from her, not financial support. He had just been complaining about how he hadn't seen her for days, and IMO it actually was sad that he told her he was physically hurting, and she didn't even try to touch him. I mean, maybe she didn't need to actually try to message his back, but something, you know? And then she decided to throw money at the problem by offering to cover his share. I like Kim a lot, but I thought that actually was pretty cold.

Edited June 7, 2017 by rue721