S03.E08: Slip

[rue721]

44 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I understand your point, but I think the purpose of the scene was to drive home to Jimmy that even the lowest level drug dealer hss decent cash to pay for very basic legal assistance. This helps provide the impetus for Jimmy deciding that this will be his preferred clientele.

I do wish they had more cleverly portrayed  a way for Jimmy to be paid 700 simoleons for 5 minutes work.

Yeah, probably true.

I think they tried to have it both ways -- they wanted to show Jimmy as desperate and therefore pretty uncharacteristically lousy (as a talker), AND they wanted to show Jimmy getting a taste for being a criminal [who is a] lawyer. IMO they needed to pick one idea or the other. Trying to do two things at once undermined them both.

[riverheightsnancy]

6 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Jimmy is a hard worker, bright, and completely capable of this dumbshit job of picking up garbage by the side of the road (I mean come on. This is not beyond his capabilities), so really, the only reason this is even an issue is that he's pathologically bad with authority.

 

I never disagreed that the foreman should doc hours appropriately if they aren't working, or have to leave early, but those rules are likely discussed in the waiver that they sign. If he is not letting anyone read it, then he can say the rules say whatever he wants and they have literally no recourse because they haven't read it. As a lawyer, that is going to rub Jimmy the wrong way. It is the typical authority over the little guy thing, that Jimmy cannot tolerate right now. This situation is a microcosm of his entire life. He is the little guy who gets shit on who has no recourse, no power. Jimmy, basically figured he would stick it to the guy, because he has reached his limit (hence the cross over to Saul) and not caring what is right or wrong anymore. Of course, I would agree that they should get noted for the time that they work. The situation with Jimmy, is a little different than that, IMO. 

[benteen]

Quote

Did Chuck never work in the store and see what a sap his father was? 

Chuck acknowledged this to Kim when he told her that Jimmy had been taking money from his father.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Both the previously.tv recapper and I thought it looked like a woman's hand. Are we sure it's the Good Samaritan?

Impossible to tell if the hand was male or female, but there was a plain gold ring -- which is usually associated with a male. 

Who else would Mike be looking for?

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I mean, maybe she didn't need to actually try to message his back, but something, you know? And then she decided to throw money at the problem by offering to cover his share. I like Kim a lot, but I thought that actually was pretty cold.

She offered to carry them out of worry.  Jimmy was being curt.  He had hurt his back.  She didn't want him to feel like he needed to rush. 

22 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I never disagreed that the foreman should doc hours appropriately if they aren't working, or have to leave early, but those rules are likely discussed in the waiver that they sign.

A waiver to me usually implies releasing someone from some kind of responsibility.  I would not expect rules to be there.

One thing I found really interesting about the flashback at the beginning of the episode is how Jimmy's mind works.  He sees his dad as too soft because the dad would be lenient on those who were in need.  But his conclusion isn't that his parents shouldn't have let people have milk without paying for it. but rather that his father should have sold alcohol and booze to kids.  There is no middle ground for him. 

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Impossible to tell if the hand was male or female, but there was a plain gold ring -- which is usually associated with a male. 

Who else would Mike be looking for?

Maybe while looking for the Good Samaritan's body he stumbled upon the cartel's burial/dumping grounds for their victims? Maybe he figured the missing husband of the grief group member would be there too?
I'm just riffing here. 

[Dev F]

53 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

One thing I found really interesting about the flashback at the beginning of the episode is how Jimmy's mind works.  He sees his dad as too soft because the dad would be lenient on those who were in need.  But his conclusion isn't that his parents shouldn't have let people have milk without paying for it. but rather that his father should have sold alcohol and booze to kids.  There is no middle ground for him. 

It's also significant when he believed that, I think. The scene was a flashback to his last visit with Marco at the end of season 1, after he learned that Chuck was conspiring against his legal career but before he decided that Kim was enough reason to stay in the profession. So it's pretty telling if his attitude then, when the pendulum had swung as far in the "Slippin' Jimmy" direction as we've seen, is reflective of his attitude now, when he has Kim and the promise of a successful practice ahead of him.

[Jextella]

15 hours ago, Bannon said:

I understand your point, but I think the purpose of the scene was to drive home to Jimmy that even the lowest level drug dealer hss decent cash to pay for very basic legal assistance. This helps provide the impetus for Jimmy deciding that this will be his preferred clientele.

I do wish they had more cleverly portrayed  a way for Jimmy to be paid 700 simoleons for 5 minutes work.

I actually liked the idea.  It all made sense and fell under the feasible umbrella. Jimmy doesn't hang with drug dealers...he needed to be introduced to them somehow.  Community service of this type seems like one of the more plausible ways of making that happen. My beef with the scene (and the one at the guitar shop) is that they were sort of empty, for lack of a better word.  I think the dialogue was fine but how they were filmed was off.   Major disconnect on multiple levels.  I chalk it up to the director.  I'm no film expert but I do notice when directors are different.   BB had its off episodies  too...on occassion.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Jextella

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I actually liked the idea.  It all made sense and fell within the feasible umbrella. Jimmy doesn't hang with drug dealers...he needed to be introduced to them somehow.  Community service of this type seems like one of the more plausible ways of making that happen. My beef with the scene (and the one at the guitar shop) is that they were sort of empty, for lack of a better word.  I think the dialogue was fine but how they were filmed was off.   Major disconnect on multiple levels.  I chalk it up to the director.  I'm no film expert but I do notice when directors are different.   BB had its off episodies  too...on occassion.

Well, the direction of the pill switching scene was really, really, really, good, so credit where it is due, and all that. I really think a little more time spent sharpening the dialogue may have done the trick, but it is easy to forget the significant time constraints in putting together a heavily serialized t.v. drama. There must be times when you are just out of time, and you go with what you have.

[Lingo]

What really struck me about this episode is what a poor, whiny, entitled schmuck Jimmy has become! He acts like the world is trying to bring him down, as if it's somehow not fair, but there is not a single negative consequence he is currently enduring that he did not bring upon himself. He DID switch the numbers on the MV contract, he knows it, Kim knows it. He DID break-and-enter Chuck's house more than once. And now he's dealing with the consequences of his suspended license. Which of course means the community service and the lack of his usual attorney income. He brought all of this on himself! And he seems to have completely forgotten that he WON the disbarment case. He got to keep his license, and he didn't even have to serve time for the break-and-enter! He won the big battle. And now he's whining about the entirely forseeable and deserved consequences, like give me a break.

And, as pointed out, he's making it worse for himself, because of some really dumb stubborn emotional reasons -- primarily his desire to be seen as someone self-sufficient and dependable and worthy of Kim's respect. So despite Kim's very reasonable suggestions, like letting Francesca go and offering to support both of them for a while, Jimmy's pride can't let him accept it, and he digs an even deeper hole for himself.

And he could just buckle down and work hard and honestly to get through it, but he can't even do that. He has to resort to tricks to get the fast bucks.

The ironic thing is that he denigrates his father for not doing the "hard" thing, which in his mind is to cheat and steal and break the law. In reality, his father was doing what's really hard, which is getting through this life with honesty and integrity, while Jimmy is always looking for the easy way out.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Both the previously.tv recapper and I thought it looked like a woman's hand. Are we sure it's the Good Samaritan?

Hmm.  Maybe it was a coworker of Marie Schrader who wouldn't stop parking in her space. :)

Seriously the hand looked male to me, but it wasn't 100% clear.  The fingers seemed long and thick.

More importantly, Mike told the tribal police, "You better find HIM before the coyotes do."

Besides that, to quote the great screenwriter and philosopher, Christopher Moltisanti, "Now, that would be some effin coincidence if it wasn't..." the Good Samaritan. :) 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Quote

Both the previously.tv recapper and I thought it looked like a woman's hand. Are we sure it's the Good Samaritan?

…More importantly, Mike told the tribal police, "You better find HIM before the coyotes do."…

Ah! Thanks! Although it looked female to me, I thought I recalled something in the following dialog that made me think otherwise, but then the recap referred to it being a woman, so I wasn't sure.

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, rue721 said:

Well, and it's also an issue because he constantly overloads himself, constantly puts himself under as much (needless!) pressure as possible. How does this man have no job and yet is still so busy he has to change out of the trunk of his car? ;) And this is after secretly completing law school and passing the bar while working full time. And after hustling for as many public defender overflow clients as possible while also taking care of Chuck. He can't even make a commercial with a flag in it without concocting a whole scheme for why he needs to trespass and film at an elementary school FFS.

Loved that whole post, Rue.  The writers love to show us busy.

Kim also works three times harder than anyone really could.   Her days of working until after midnight, sleeping on the couch, showering at the gym, rinse,  repeat,  make no sense to me, and we know she's still doing it because Jimmy reminded her that it had been two days ago that she had stopped in at their apartment and got fresh clothes.  I worked as a bank teller for years, we worked nine hours most days, but ten on Fridays.  If anyone was out of balance on Friday we knew it would be during that last hour when our brains were just done.  Kim is doing the same sort of tedious, but exacting work and that she's expected to write perfectly with no dashes where semi-colons would be better.  How is she doing this for 16 hours straight and not making errors?  If she has taken on this new account for any reason other than hoping to dump Mesa Verde and leave town then she is truly nuts.  We know she doesn't need the money if she can write that check to Howard.

[Ottis]

On 6/5/2017 at 3:20 PM, Bannon said:

I really think it will be Kim severing her relationshp with Jimmy, which will be the last straw that creates Saul as full time occupation. It'll be really sad if it takes Kim's professional ruin to be the catalyst for the severance.

Kim's fate was always sealed, and I've often thought she will end up being the saddest part of this show.

On 6/6/2017 at 4:40 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

When Chuck was talking  to the doctor, it almost seemed as if he would explicitly acknowledge Jimmy's crucial role in leading him to the realization that his illness was in his head, as a result of having arranged to have the phone battery planted on him.

I might be jaded, but it still feels like Chuck's miraculous progress and glowing story is all tied to somehow coming back and screwing Jimmy. Maybe Chuck is the instrument of Kim's final demise. if not, I don't know why we are watching Chuck. He served his purpose. I'm done with the character. 

Quote

But just like Jimmy couldn't just eat the $5 when he showed up at the parking attendant booth without enough stickers, he can't just let the docked hours go.

Which is a theme for this production team. Walter White was like that. Mike is like that.  I suppose Chuck is like that. These are all people with tons of potential who just can't let certain things go, and who then break bad. People around them are often collateral damage. Poor Kim.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ottis
additional thought

[benteen]

27 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Loved that whole post, Rue.  The writers love to show us busy.

Kim also works three times harder than anyone really could.   Her days of working until after midnight, sleeping on the couch, showering at the gym, rinse,  repeat,  make no sense to me, and we know she's still doing it because Jimmy reminded her that it had been two days ago that she had stopped in at their apartment and got fresh clothes.  I worked as a bank teller for years, we worked nine hours most days, but ten on Fridays.  If anyone was out of balance on Friday we knew it would be during that last hour when our brains were just done.  Kim is doing the same sort of tedious, but exacting work and that she's expected to write perfectly with no dashes where semi-colons would be better.  How is she doing this for 16 hours straight and not making errors?  If she has taken on this new account for any reason other than hoping to dump Mesa Verde and leave town then she is truly nuts.  We know she doesn't need the money if she can write that check to Howard.

Agreed.  She needs more help to deal with a company as big as Mesa Verde.  Taking on another client is sure to make her collapse under the weight of it all.

[Bannon]

21 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Loved that whole post, Rue.  The writers love to show us busy.

Kim also works three times harder than anyone really could.   Her days of working until after midnight, sleeping on the couch, showering at the gym, rinse,  repeat,  make no sense to me, and we know she's still doing it because Jimmy reminded her that it had been two days ago that she had stopped in at their apartment and got fresh clothes.  I worked as a bank teller for years, we worked nine hours most days, but ten on Fridays.  If anyone was out of balance on Friday we knew it would be during that last hour when our brains were just done.  Kim is doing the same sort of tedious, but exacting work and that she's expected to write perfectly with no dashes where semi-colons would be better.  How is she doing this for 16 hours straight and not making errors?  If she has taken on this new account for any reason other than hoping to dump Mesa Verde and leave town then she is truly nuts.  We know she doesn't need the money if she can write that check to Howard.

You have just described why career satisfaction, even at the most successful firms, in the practice of law, is so very low. People are just fed into woodchippers. I had a client who was Yale Law, classmates with some of the most famous graduates of that school. This client had a successful career at one of the country's powerhouse firms, made partner. The client came to realize it was a miserable, miserable, existence, and being partner just meant showering misery on subordiates. Ick.

[Hanahope]

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It might be the moment when he realizes that he could be stand to be less soft-hearted, although I think he had felt that way for a long time, but it is definitely not the time when he decided to give up his senior citizen clientele for a class of person....since that scene takes place years before he was a lawyer and had senior clientele.

Could this scene had occurred when Jimmy went back to Cicero for a spell right before Marco died, and they did their couple of days of scams?

I loved that we finally got to see a "slipping Jimmy" slip.  But yeah, Jimmy is older now, he can't fall on his back and be perfectly fine like he used to, or the years of slipping built up and this slip kindof broke the camel's back (lol).

That said, to some extent, the music store owners were also in the wrong.  They did agree to purchase "the elite package" from Jimmy if the one free commercial (which they knew was already taking advantage of Jimmy) increased their business.  And obviously they knew it did because someone called Jimmy/Saul to tell him how great the commercial did and that they wanted him to come make more commercials.  I doubt Jimmy hung out at the music store's parking lot to see whether or not their customer traffic increased.  So imo, an oral contract was created, which the music store owners breached.  Jimmy could have gone to court to enforce it.  Of course, Jimmy knew how long that would take, so he created a more expedient solution.  I bet though, if the music store owners had instead tried to negotiate for a lower price, Jimmy may have taken it (as long as it wasn't too low).  

Yes, the music store owners could have created their own commercials and bought their own time, but would they really have done as good a job as Saul does?  Its been shown that Saul/Jimmy creates pretty darn good commercials to get clients/customers.

I wonder if the bit Jimmy did for the drug dealer at community service is another "in" that he got with the criminal world and referrals to clients therein.  If people like that started showing up at Jimmy's legal office (who obviously pay better), I can see that turning off both his elderly clients and Kim.

I took the bit with Mike at face value.  Mike got the approximate location of the body drop (either through gps coordinates or being told so many feet/yards southwest from the Oasis sign), put in the stake to keep him oriented, then started looking for the wedding ring with the metal detector.

the Nacho scene was great.  The work he did to pull it off, from filling numerous capsules with IBprofen, causing the AC to go out to ensure Hector took off his jacket, replacing the exact number of pills, and practicing the toss back into the jacket.  Superb. And the tension created by Nacho's hand shaking (since he was already sweating from the heat) was really palpable.  

Since we know Crazy 8 and Tuco are around in BB, and Saul refenced "Ignacio" I wouldn't be surprised if Nacho does take over for Hector (and Tuco takes over Nacho's job).

[smorbie]

22 hours ago, Bannon said:

The challenge wasn't credible, though, because the city employee knows, if he has an IQ which passes 50, that the city has to pay for hs legal defense, if he is personally sued for his actions on the job. They shouldn't have written that nonsense into the scene.  I wasn't commenting on any comparisons between Jimmy and Saul.

I'm not sure it would have really worked out that way.  IRL, he should have excused the drug dealer and filed a report with the court regarding the incident.  He should also have simply excused Jimmy to go home until he could perform his duties appropriately, again explaining the incident to his supervisor.  Instead, he chose to handle it on his own.

The very first question any attorney working for the city would have asked him was how he knew Jimmy wasn't hurt and aggravating an injury for which the city could be liable and how he was so certain the man didn't have to leave to go to the hospital.

[benteen]

28 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Could this scene had occurred when Jimmy went back to Cicero for a spell right before Marco died, and they did their couple of days of scams?

No, this was definitely in his Slipping Jimmy days in the late-80s or early-90s.  They gave him a wig for that scene that he always wears for the flashbacks.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I'm not sure it would have really worked out that way.  IRL, he should have excused the drug dealer and filed a report with the court regarding the incident.  He should also have simply excused Jimmy to go home until he could perform his duties appropriately, again explaining the incident to his supervisor.  Instead, he chose to handle it on his own.

The very first question any attorney working for the city would have asked him was how he knew Jimmy wasn't hurt and aggravating an injury for which the city could be liable and how he was so certain the man didn't have to leave to go to the hospital.

Well, yes, but the city would still be paying for the civil defense. It's really, really, really hard to sue a city employee personally for actions on the job; it's why it hardly ever happens to police officers, despite they being in litigous situations all the time. The lawsuits almost always are filed against the city alone. Even if that bar is cleared, it is nearly impossible for the city to get off the hook for paying for the employee's defense. I know of situations where a city employee has been convicted of criminal battery while on the job, and in the subsequent civil suit, the employee still had their legal expenses covered by the city.

[smorbie]

If it was a bluff, it worked.  That's all there is to say.

I'm thinking in the end it would have cost the worker his job.  If they couldn't let him go over that, they would have found something.

Edited June 7, 2017 by smorbie

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

I might be jaded, but it still feels like Chuck's miraculous progress and glowing story is all tied to somehow coming back and screwing Jimmy. Maybe Chuck is the instrument of Kim's final demise. if not, I don't know why we are watching Chuck. He served his purpose. I'm done with the character. 

I agree his recovery looks pretty rapid, and the doctor indicated much the same.  I'm pretty sure he realizes he can accomplish more on an equal playing field -- using electricity and being out and about -- toward whatever goals he has besides throwing catered parties.  His battle with Jimmy isn't over, he lost face in the hearing and is about to find out about malpractice premiums.  He's going to have a fast rehabilitation. 

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

That said, to some extent, the music store owners were also in the wrong.  They did agree to purchase "the elite package" from Jimmy if the one free commercial (which they knew was already taking advantage of Jimmy) increased their business.  And obviously they knew it did because someone called Jimmy/Saul to tell him how great the commercial did and that they wanted him to come make more commercials.  I doubt Jimmy hung out at the music store's parking lot to see whether or not their customer traffic increased.  So imo, an oral contract was created, which the music store owners breached.

I actually wondered if Jimmy had paid random people $20 each to spend 15 minutes in the store, creating the illusion of more business after the commercial aired. 

[Hanahope]

2 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I actually wondered if Jimmy had paid random people $20 each to spend 15 minutes in the store, creating the illusion of more business after the commercial aired. 

Certainly possible.  But the one store owner certainly seemed on board with making more commercials and I don't think he would have been had the 'customers' not been buying anything.  The other owner also seemed to agree that the commercial generated more business (i.e. more selling of stuff), he just didn't want to pay for anything to Jimmy.

[Bryce Lynch]

An interesting little tidbit from the podcast.  The Band Aid box with Jimmy's coin collection, appeared in the opening flashback in episode 101 in "Gene's" shoebox where he kept his Saul Goodman ad videos.  

[Hanahope]

I also thought the scene between Mike and Gus well done.  Mike obviously doesn't know exactly what Gus wants in exchange for his laundry assistance, but he probably assumes it will be some sort of service, since he refused money.  and since Mike never jumps into things not knowing what its all about, its clear that he has some form of trust with Gus, that Gus isn't the type of person who would kill an innocent bystander just 'to tie up loose ends.'  A "respectable" criminal.

[Bannon]

36 minutes ago, smorbie said:

If it was a bluff, it worked.  That's all there is to say.

I'm thinking in the end it would have cost the worker his job.  If they couldn't let him go over that, they would have found something.

City employees is every city Ive ever lived have gotten away with far worse. In Albquerque the other day, the city was forced to rehire a police officer who was responsible for a multimillion dollar payout in a civil suit (no, the police offcier was not personally sued) for shooting a homeless man to death. The officer came withn 3 juror votes of a murder conviction (hung jury). The city wanted to fire him, and even after 6 jurors said he committed murder, and the city paid out millions in damages, the city could not fire him. Its really, really hard to fire city employees, really, really, really, really hard to personally sue city employees, and just about impossible for a city to avoid paying for a city employee's civil defense. 

Yes it was a bluff that worked on a t.v. show. It is not a bluff that hardly any city employee is the United States we live in would find the least bit credible, and thus it is not a bluff that would actually work. Like I said, it isnt the biggest deal to me, since the only purpose of the scene was to to illustrate to Jimmy that doing simple legal work for even the lowest level drug dealers could be pretty profitable. I just wish they had wrtten it a little better. 

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

City employees is every city Ive ever lived have gotten away with far worse. In Albquerque the other day, the city was forced to rehire a police officer who was responsible for a multimillion dollar payout in a civil suit (no, the police offcier was not personally sued) for shooting a homeless man to death. The officer came withn 3 juror votes of a murder conviction (hung jury). The city wanted to fire him, and even after 6 jurors said he committed murder, and the city paid out millions in damages, the city could not fire him. Its really, really hard to fire city employees, really, really, really, really hard to personally sue city employees, and just about impossible for a city to avoid paying for a city employee's civil defense. 

Yes it was a bluff that worked on a t.v. show. It is not a bluff that hardly any city employee is the United States we live in would find the least bit credible, and thus it is not a bluff that would actually work. Like I said, it isnt the biggest deal to me, since the only purpose of the scene was to to illustrate to Jimmy that doing simple legal work for even the lowest level drug dealers could be pretty profitable. I just wish they had wrtten it a little better. 

I'm thinking that the guy might have been aware that he didn't need to worry about the cost of a lawsuit, but he might have a history of complaints against him, and an irritating lawyer making another one would be unpleasant for him.  Maybe his supervisor gets on him in a big way or transfers him to an even crappier assignment. 

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

City employees is every city Ive ever lived have gotten away with far worse. In Albquerque the other day, the city was forced to rehire a police officer who was responsible for a multimillion dollar payout in a civil suit (no, the police offcier was not personally sued) for shooting a homeless man to death. The officer came withn 3 juror votes of a murder conviction (hung jury). The city wanted to fire him, and even after 6 jurors said he committed murder, and the city paid out millions in damages, the city could not fire him. Its really, really hard to fire city employees, really, really, really, really hard to personally sue city employees, and just about impossible for a city to avoid paying for a city employee's civil defense. 

Yes it was a bluff that worked on a t.v. show. It is not a bluff that hardly any city employee is the United States we live in would find the least bit credible, and thus it is not a bluff that would actually work. Like I said, it isnt the biggest deal to me, since the only purpose of the scene was to to illustrate to Jimmy that doing simple legal work for even the lowest level drug dealers could be pretty profitable. I just wish they had wrtten it a little better. 

If you are talking about the James Boyd shooting, it was a clean shooting of a extremely violent, mentally disturbed man, with a long history of violent assaults, including on police officers, who refused multiple orders to drop his knife.  If the officer had received a fair trial, where Boyd's history was not hidden from the jury, the officer would likely have been acquitted in less than an hour.   

[peeayebee]

34 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

An interesting little tidbit from the podcast.  The Band Aid box with Jimmy's coin collection, appeared in the opening flashback in episode 101 in "Gene's" shoebox where he kept his Saul Goodman ad videos.  

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling there was something about that band-aid box I wasn't remembering.

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If you are talking about the James Boyd shooting, it was a clean shooting of a extremely violent, mentally disturbed man, with a long history of violent assaults, including on police officers, who refused multiple orders to drop his knife.  If the officer had received a fair trial, where Boyd's history was not hidden from the jury, the officer would likely have been acquitted in less than an hour.   

I wasn't commenting on the quality of the jury performance in the criminal trial. I was commenting on the fact that even when a civil jury finds a city employeee responsible for millions of dollars in damages, for action on the job, a city employee can keep his or her job. They are hard people to fire. That was my only point.

[Bannon]

14 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm thinking that the guy might have been aware that he didn't need to worry about the cost of a lawsuit, but he might have a history of complaints against him, and an irritating lawyer making another one would be unpleasant for him.  Maybe his supervisor gets on him in a big way or transfers him to an even crappier assignment. 

Sure that's really possible. The point is to write the scene that way, to have the characters talking about possible things, instead of impossible things. I think it would have worked if they had Jimmy say something along the lines of "Hey, look, I'm not the typical disorganized minor criminal or tweaker asshole you're used to pushing around. I can't sue you or get you fired, but I'm a pretty good attorney who can't practice law for a year, who also knows city government inside and out. I can have you tied up in paperwork and meetings with your bosses for the next 12 months, as I file very detailed, long complaints, about the stuff I see you do which you're not supposed to be doing, like pressuring people to not read the waivers they sign. How'd you like to take 45 minutes every day as people read waivers, and ask questions about it? Why not let me do what I need to do today, and let this guy go see his kid in the hospital?"

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I wasn't commenting on the quality of the jury performance in the criminal trial. I was commenting on the fact that even when a civil jury finds a city employeee responsible for millions of dollars in damages, for action on the job, a city employee can keep his or her job. They are hard people to fire. That was my only point.

Fair enough.  I definitely agree that public employees can be very hard to fire.  The NYC school system famously has a "rubber room" where teachers who have done all sorts of horrible things, but can't be fired, are sent to nap, do crosswords, etc while getting full pay.   

[ElsieH]

I am most definitely ignorant of hunting for arrowheads, but why would you use a metal detector to find one? Aren't they carved from stones?

Also, why would the ER doctor from last season agree to treat Chuck?

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, ElsieH said:

I am most definitely ignorant of hunting for arrowheads, but why would you use a metal detector to find one? Aren't they carved from stones?

Also, why would the ER doctor from last season agree to treat Chuck?

Ha! Ha! Ha!  Excellent catch. You are quite right, of course. That never even dawned on me. Seems like some very sloppy writing or sloppy something else.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, ElsieH said:

I am most definitely ignorant of hunting for arrowheads, but why would you use a metal detector to find one? Aren't they carved from stones?

Also, why would the ER doctor from last season agree to treat Chuck?

He never said to the tribal police that he used a metal detector. All they see is the result of some minor digging, like somebody looking for arrowheads.

[MisterBluxom]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Fair enough.  I definitely agree that public employees can be very hard to fire.  The NYC school system famously has a "rubber room" where teachers who have done all sorts of horrible things, but can't be fired, are sent to nap, do crosswords, etc while getting full pay.   

This strikes me as the result of some accountant doing a cost analysis and finding it's much less expensive to "rubber room" them than it is to settle any lawsuit by the parents of children who have been damaged or by the teachers who may claim "wrongful termination".

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

He never said to the tribal police that he used a metal detector. All they see is the result of some minor digging, like somebody looking for arrowheads.

I seem to recall he told someone that he was using a metal detector. Perhaps I am remembering this incorrectly.

[Bannon]

19 minutes ago, ElsieH said:

I am most definitely ignorant of hunting for arrowheads, but why would you use a metal detector to find one? Aren't they carved from stones?

Also, why would the ER doctor from last season agree to treat Chuck?

I suspect Chuck would use the doc from season 1 because she is very familiar with his history and condition. Chuck's just looking for a medical professional to document his recovery from his delusion, so he can get back to carving a pound out of Jimmy. There isn't a medical professional better suited for that than this doctor. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bannon

[ElsieH]

I guess, but she wanted to have him committed. I can't imagine why she would agree to make a house call and write him a prescription. Especially when she knew that his condition was mental, so it struck me as odd that she wouldn't have just referred him to a psychiatrist.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

This strikes me as the result of some accountant doing a cost analysis and finding it's much less expensive to "rubber room" them than it is to settle any lawsuit by the parents of children who have been damaged or by the teachers who may claim "wrongful termination".

I seem to recall he told someone that he was using a metal detector. Perhaps I am remembering this incorrectly.

Nope, a lot of those rubber room teachers had resulted in large settlement to parents of kids harmed. and yes, that's why they are in the rubber room; they can sue for wrongful termination, and get their jobs back. Government employees even at the lowest municipal level, can be really hard to fire.

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I seem to recall he told someone that he was using a metal detector. Perhaps I am remembering this incorrectly.

He did say he was using a metal detector, when he called the tribal police. 

[Constantinople]

I thought Jimmy's scenes were a little dull this week.  I felt as I had seen all of them before.

Glad to see Mike & Gus back together for a scene.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, ElsieH said:

I guess, but she wanted to have him committed. I can't imagine why she would agree to make a house call and write him a prescription. Especially when she knew that his condition was mental, so it struck me as odd that she wouldn't have just referred him to a psychiatrist.

Chuck's a persuasive guy, and even with a referral, it can take months to see a psychiatrist. The vast majority of psych prescriptions these days are written by general practicioners.

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

He did say he was using a metal detector, when he called the tribal police. 

If he did, that's a very minor writing error, by mentioning metal detector and arrowheads together. Shoulda' left one out. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Who Wins And Loses When Better Call Saul Has A Slip?

As Slippin' Jimmy returns to triumph over a small business and a government bully, how do the characters rank?

[Bryce Lynch]

20 minutes ago, ElsieH said:

I am most definitely ignorant of hunting for arrowheads, but why would you use a metal detector to find one? Aren't they carved from stones?

Also, why would the ER doctor from last season agree to treat Chuck?

That could explain why Mike only found cans and dead bodies. :)  Apparently some Indians made arrowheads from copper (Ah, wire! LOL), so it might not be a goof.  

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

This strikes me as the result of some accountant doing a cost analysis and finding it's much less expensive to "rubber room" them than it is to settle any lawsuit by the parents of children who have been damaged or by the teachers who may claim "wrongful termination".

I seem to recall he told someone that he was using a metal detector. Perhaps I am remembering this incorrectly.

You are correct Mike said, "I was out with my metal detector, looking for arrowheads." to the police.  

[scenario]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Nope, a lot of those rubber room teachers had resulted in large settlement to parents of kids harmed. and yes, that's why they are in the rubber room; they can sue for wrongful termination, and get their jobs back. Government employees even at the lowest municipal level, can be really hard to fire.

People can be fired it just takes do diligence.  I've seen it happen. The supervisor must document everything. Enforce all of the rules. Since the rule book of every large organization has situations where you have to violate one rule to follow another, eventually you've got enough evidence to fire the employee. More commonly, the supervisor legally harasses the employee by nit picking them until they resign. 

Most supervisors either don't want to bother going through the procedures or don't have the time. 

The reason that these rules were put in is that civil servants would otherwise be vulnerable to complaints. Things such as teachers getting fired for failing a student who never showed up to class but whose aunt worked on the school committee. Or a teacher getting fired who taught the official curriculum that many people in the local community didn't approve of. 

In this case, without the rules the city might just decide  to fire the guy if Saul made a big enough stink and actually had connections. It's protection against either rich and powerful people or the general public when they decide they don't like the rules. 

[Bannon]

Yeah, I wasn't making public policy commentary, I was just saying that municipal employees are quite hard to fire, relative to at will employees outside of government. A jury can conclude that your behavior on the job was worthy of literally millions of dollars in damages paid,  paid by the employer, and the employee might still retain his or her job.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

You have just described why career satisfaction, even at the most successful firms, in the practice of law, is so very low. People are just fed into woodchippers. I had a client who was Yale Law, classmates with some of the most famous graduates of that school. This client had a successful career at one of the country's powerhouse firms, made partner. The client came to realize it was a miserable, miserable, existence, and being partner just meant showering misery on subordiates. Ick.

BigLaw is a notoriously terrible way to make a living when it comes to career satisfaction, but there are many avenues to practice law outside of BigLaw powerhouse firms. Unfortunately, the best and brightest are often graduates of prestigious law schools (like Yale) with crushing debt loads who gravitate to BigLaw firms in order to make as much money as quickly as possible to pay off their debts. The ones who can't or don't want to hack it eventually wash out and head for greener, more forgiving pastures (in-house counsel, government jobs, etc.), and the ones who can and want to hack it stick around and eventually become partners wooing the best and brightest students from the most prestigious law schools. And thus the woodchipper is fed, and the cycle continues.

On another note, I agree with everyone who enjoyed seeing Nacho practice the toss. Watching him repeatedly miss during the practice session also built up the suspense for whether he would successfully pull it off for real. That was excellent.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Eyes High

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

BigLaw is a notoriously terrible way to make a living, but there are many avenues to practice law outside of BigLaw powerhouse firms. Unfortunately, the best and brightest are often graduates of prestigious law schools (like Yale) with crushing debt loads who gravitate to BigLaw firms in order to make as much money as quickly as possible to pay off their debts. The ones who can't or don't want to hack it eventually wash out and head for greener, more forgiving pastures (in-house counsel, government jobs, etc.), and the ones who can and want to hack it stick around and eventually become partners wooing the best and brightest students from the most prestigious law schools. And thus the woodchipper is fed, and the cycle continues.

On another note, I agree with everyone who enjoyed seeing Nacho practice the toss. Watching him repeatedly miss during the practice session also built up the suspense for whether he would successfully pull it off for real. That was excellent.

The pill switch scene, and the scenes which led up to it, was a textbook example of how writers are almost always better served by showing characters doing things, as opposed to characters talking about what they did, or what somebody else did. Show, don't tell. The people who write this show are really cognizant of this, and I wish writers on other shows would more reliably emulate them.