Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GraceK]

Courtesy of reddit.

how I hope this ends ( seriously I don’t blame her ) 😂

Edited May 9, 2019 by GraceK

[Jextella]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

I was thinking of Varys planning a course along the following lines:

1. After his conversation with Tyrion, Varys decides to betray Dany in favor of Jon.
2. To this end, Varys sends a raven to Cersei presenting himself as a mole in Dany’s camp to support Cersei, and to that end betraying to Cersei the position of Dany’s fleet (and dragons).  The benefit of this to Varys would be twofold: Varys would re-ingratiate himself with Cersei as a (quasi-)trusted advisor, and Dany would either be killed (removing his dilemma entirely) or, at least, seriously militarily weakened.
3. Varys would continue his campaign of sabotage against Dany, until the point at which Cersei is convinced of certain victory...
4. ...at which point Cersei’s guard would be at its lowest point, and Varys would either slide a knife into her ribs or a lethal potion into her wine.
5. And afterwards, once both Dany AND Cersei have been properly disposed of, would the news of Jon’s true lineage - and his rightful claim to the Throne - be revealed.

Now, I’m not saying this is what happens; rather, that Varys might pursue a course of action intended to make this happen - which would make it entirely possible Dany found Varys out, and executed him for his treason.

One who expects to die - which, back in S1, is all I think was really on Dany’s mind.  The fire was Drogo’s funeral pyre, and Dany intended to join him in death.  I expect surviving the fire - and hatching three dragon eggs in the process - surprised Dany greatly. 😉

I really like this theory.  Vary's character must have a purpose yet all we know is he is a supporter of the people and worked to maneuver Dany to the Iron Throne early on thinking she would be a reasonable and humane leader.

That was eons ago and since then, he hasn't done much.  I recall his and Dany's discussion in which he said he would tell her to her face when he thinks she is making a mistake and Dany said she would execute him immediately if he turned on her.  Maybe this is that time for both.  It would give Varys' a reason for being around for so long.

Dany has shown a growing ruthlessness since losing Drogo.  Contrary to many, I feel the writers did a good job with her storyline this way.  Madness, anger, whatever it is, won't come out of no where.  It's been building since the beginning.

[ShellsandCheese]

5 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I really like this theory.  Vary's character must have a purpose yet all we know is he is a supporter of the people and worked to maneuver Dany to the Iron Throne early on thinking she would be a reasonable and humane leader.

That was eons ago and since then, he hasn't done much.  I recall his and Dany's discussion in which he said he would tell her to her face when he thinks she is making a mistake and Dany said she would execute him immediately if he turned on her.  Maybe this is that time for both.  It would give Varys' a reason for being around for so long.

Dany has shown a growing ruthlessness since losing Drogo.  Contrary to many, I feel the writers did a good job with her storyline this way.  Madness, anger, whatever it is, won't come out of no where.  It's been building since the beginning.

Ruthlessness is not the same as madness. And if Dany were truly ruthless, she would have quit listening to Tyrion’s bad advice and would taken King’s Landing at the beginning of season seven. The fact that he’s still her hand is just mind boggling. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[GraceK]

What really upsets me about this is how much Dany loves Jon. She has saved his life three times already, and has lost so much because of her good heart.  Screen wise, he doesn’t seem to feel the same. I’m not feeling the same amount of love from him , and it’s awful. Because if it’s purposely done, that means they have destroyed his character to the point that he manipulated a woman to use her for armies and dragons for a means to an end, just to murder her at the end of it all. Or he genuinely loves her and he is just really weak and can’t be there for her enough, and is just a crappy boyfriend. Either way? He sucks. And she deserves more than this IMO. It’s character assassination all around.

Edited May 9, 2019 by GraceK

[SueB]

Well, I was unspoiled until today.  And I spent the last 6+ hours (no kidding) reading this thread from about page 150 forward to try and get a handle on the compendium of spoilers.  My overall thoughts:

- The ratio of foilers to spoilers is pretty high.  And I think HBO is throwing out more foilers than any other show I've seen.  Almost every 'source' gets at least one thing right (because I read the 'spoilers' today, I had the 20-20 hindsight going for me).  
- The video clip with GRRM talking about the show theme is probably the single most compelling case for this to be mostly a tragic end for Dany -- he was all about how there is no clear 'good vs evil' and war is ugly, changes people, and really bad shit happens to innocents.  
- I'm not sure I trust the writers in the "Behind the episode" comments if they are implying anything about the future -- because I think they put such a high value on secrecy.
- I thought Tyrion was GMMR's avatar so if he 'betrays' anyone, it'll be for what the audience considers a noble reason IMO.  Not some "I love the Lannisters" BS but to protect people.

For 8.05: The lastest 'spanish spoilers' seem the most legit.  Seeing Euron look up into the empty sky in the promo suggests Drogon w/ armor burning him to a crisp makes sense.  I find the theory out there about Cersei not actually being pregnant somewhat compelling.  Cersei just wants to burn everything down.  I think Cersei would be cool being Queen of an ash-heap rather than let Danys take it.  I don't buy Dany going legit insane.  The pictures back at Dragonstone suggest she does not take rash action.  But I also see her crossing a moral boundary that Jon Snow can't accept.  And Cersei using the wildfire to take strategic "burning" of the weapons by Danys and turn it into a conflagration.  I will be pissed if Jon kills her out of a misunderstanding on what she did (thinking she burned the city versus just the weapons).  I do not like misunderstandings to be the basis of tragedy.  

For 8.06: I buy Jon saying 'peace out' to the throne and a council ruling instead.  

I want:
- Cersei killed.  She's both evil and a psycopath.
- Euron killed. Mysogynistic jackass.  Burning him is too nice.
- Arya, Sansa, Bran, & Jon to live.
- Danys to not be a villain.
- Tyrion to not be a villain.
- Jamie to redeem his pathetic ass one more time.

I suspect the Council of 7 will include at least two women (Sansa & Yara); which will be a weak-sauce victory for powerful women but at least not a complete sausage fest.  

Edited May 9, 2019 by SueB

[Umbelina]

As far as GRRM and Tolkien?  He's not going to mirror image that story.  I was watching a video, or reading one of his blogs this week, and he says something like:

1. He got into writing fantasy fiction because, although he loved Tolkien's books, there were parts of them that bothered him a great deal.
2. He ended up in some kind of group that dissected and analyzed Tolkien's work, and offered each other ideas of the improvements that needed to be made for the story to make any overall sense.
3. He loves Tolkien's work and none of that was meant as a slam on him.
4. He just felt it could be done better, a more complete tale could be told, a different tale, but yes, ASOFAI was loosely based on all of those connections.
5. He cited some specifics about things that bothered him, but I can't remember.  I think one of them was the way the story ended though, and I think he said that "what happens THEN?" was a part of his problem with them.

Anyway, I know it's out there, and honestly, it might all be in one of his not a blogs.

So I don't expect a Tolkien style ending, maybe touches of one, but nothing that follows that script.

[rmontro]

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, so I'm well acquainted with the Scouring of the Shire end.  The Shire suffers some trauma but is repaired, Frodo suffers some PTSD and sails away with the elves to heal.  This is nothing like that.  Tolkien didn't have Sam murder Frodo when he tried to claim the ring.  Or kill all the Eagles on top of it.

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

how I hope this ends ( seriously I don’t blame her ) 😂

I'm with you 1000%.  They killed Rhaegel, and they killed Millesandei.  I'm done with it.  Seriously, burn that place to the ground!

41 minutes ago, SueB said:

And Cersei using the wildfire to take strategic "burning" of the weapons by Danys and turn it into a conflagration.  I will be pissed if Jon kills her out of a misunderstanding on what she did (thinking she burned the city versus just the weapons).  

That would be tragic, and even worse because it means Cersei will have used her manipulations to bring about Dany's death.  But at least that would spare Dany from being the villain, which I also don't want to see.

[Umbelina]

Tyrion knows the difference between Dragon Fire and Wild Fire.  One is green. 

I think someone would notice that.  I really doubt it's some kind of mistake among (at least) those that know what it looks like.  I think Davos does too, right?  Certainly the people of KL would as well frankly, it saved there asses way back when Tyrion saved the city.

[Detective005]

I think there will be few surprises (and I'm worried about this):

Cersei and Euron will die badly.

Dany will probably be killed by the kingslayer

Instead I wouldn't know what to say about the hound and arya

[GraceK]

I’m just...huh. I’m miserable. If they had more seasons , like GRRM wanted , maybe I wouldn’t be so mad. But D and D insisted on 8 seasons. Hbo, and GRRM Martin wanted at least 10. That’s what pisses me off. D and D keep saying how they BEGGED to get this series adapted.  No one wanted it. But they kept trying, and they had a meeting with George, and finally got this series started. So, it really pisses me off that they decided they are just sick of it, and they don’t want to do more than 8 seasons . So we all suffer. Because now they have to rush storylines in, and everything comes across as character assassination.  It’s like really? You wanted this series , now you are sick of it? 

Edited May 9, 2019 by GraceK

[Meredith Quill]

Reason #452638 why the writing of military tactics is contrived drivel and dumb AF on the show. (The following could equally apply to, I don't know...a FLEET perhaps?)

Also, funny. 

Disclaimer: this isn't mine I found it elsewhere.

[nikma]

GRRM wanted them to write 5 seasons beyond the books. Yeah, right. That would never happen. 

do you really think actors wanted 10 seasons? So everyone wanted 10 seasons only evil D&D wanted the show to be over in 8?

And how do you know how much money HBO wanted to give for those seasons? They don't have more money for S7 and S8. The budget is the same, but they needed more money for  climax of the story, more battles, more dragons, more CGI. So they have fewer episodes. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by nikma

[Meredith Quill]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

I’m just...huh. I’m miserable. If they had more seasons , like GRRM wanted , maybe I wouldn’t be so mad. But D and D insisted on 8 seasons. Hbo, and GRRM Martin wanted at least 10. That’s what pisses me off. D and D keep saying how they BEGGED to get this series adapted.  No one wanted it. But they kept trying, and they had a meeting with George, and finally got this series started. So, it really pisses me off that they decided they are just sick of it, and they don’t want to do more than 8 seasons . So we all suffer. Because now they have to rush storylines in, and everything comes across as character assassination.  

It was obvious to many, many book readers after season four ended that D&D had lost their passion already. I don't hold being jaded by a gruelling 365 day a year workload against them, I do hold it against them that they continued after they knew they were just eager to get it over and done with. They should've handed the reins over to others with motivation and fresh passion, instead they continued to slog through it wishing it were over already (I expect the pay and accolades were too nice to walk away from). The moment they made the original arbitrary decision to only make 70 episodes I knew it wasn't a good sign for the story. They ended up at 73 only because they knew it was impossible to end it in 70. Showrunners should be guided by, and imo, have a responsibility to their viewers, to tell the story that needs to be told to end a show in a way that makes sense and is faithful to that story. Not by how many episodes they want to end at and the corners that need to be cut to make it so. And here we are. 

[Meredith Quill]

8 minutes ago, nikma said:

GRRM wanted them to write 5 seasons beyond the books. Yeah, right. That would never happen. 

do you really think actors wanted 10 seasons? So everyone wanted 10 seasons only evil D&D wanted the show to be over in 8?

And how do you know how much money HBO wanted to give for those seasons? They don't have more money for S7 and S8. The budget is the same, but they needed more money for  climax of the story, more battles, more dragons, more CGI. So they have fewer episodes. 

Actually GRRM did state that. Whether it'd happen or not isn't the point, desire and practicality don't always make good bedfellows. We don't know what the actors would/wouldn't have wanted but plenty of long running shows have original actors, so unsure why that's seen as a problem. Given the sadness many of the actors have expressed it seems many wouldn't have minded continuing longer. HBO famously stated they'd stick with the show as long as D&D continued to make it, if anyone thinks HBO wouldn't throw more money at the biggest show ever on tv, they haven't been paying attention lol.

[Bianca Castafiore]

I know that what I'm about to say is an unpopular opinion but here we go. If the spoilers are correct I don't have a problem with the way the story is going to end. In fact I like it. I think it's fitting and it makes total sense to me. So I'm gonna sit in the corner along with the other 5 ppl who share the same opinion.

But I do understand the complains. D&D's major failure for me is that they didn't have the balls to end the WW/ Night King storyline last season and devote the whole final season in the aftermath and the battle for the Throne. They were obviously scared that they would lose a huge part of the viewers who were mostly attracted by these aspects of the story. But, if they had done that it would have given the audience the time to breathe, realize that the story is not a tale about Death vs Humanity but it's more about humans battling amongst themselves and their failures and losses. Even if the last season was 6 episodes we would still have the time to prepare and come to terms with the fact that the fate of the chararcters (good or bad) would possible be a consquence of their own actions and not some kind of noble sucrifice facing the doom of humanity.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Bianca Castafiore

[LadyPenelope]

I think in an ideal world this entire season would have built up to the NK, with time for Jon and Dany to build their relationship, Sansa to make an effort with Dany only to realise that she was never going to agree to Northern independence, Arya to attempt to be a lady of Winterfell then to decide it wasn’t who she was, Jaime to try to be a real boy and have a normal relationship before realising that it wasn’t who he was, Theon and Sansa to spend more time together, etc, etc. Then next season could deal with the aftermath and give Dany more time to lose everything and become gradually more ruthless and frightening.

[Indi]

Who in their right mind would put Dudebro Selfinsert Bronn in a council of any kind? What can he contribute with? One liners?

Why would Jon (Queenslayer or not) take the black, when the NW shouldn't exist anymore? What possible danger would he be watching?

Is Yara done in the show? I haven't seen any spoilers about her.

[Meredith Quill]

5 minutes ago, Indi said:

Who in their right mind would put Dudebro Selfinsert Bronn in a council of any kind? What can he contribute with? One liners?

C'mon, clearly he'd be there to tell everyone there's no cure for being a cunt as often as possible.

[nikma]

41 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

if anyone thinks HBO wouldn't throw more money at the biggest show ever on tv, they haven't been paying attention lol.

so why didn't they? Why this season has smaller budget than S6? S6 was $100 million and S8 $90 million.

Edited May 9, 2019 by nikma

[nikma]

22 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

But I do understand the complains. D&D's major failure for me is that they didn't have the balls to end the WW/ Night King storyline last season

But now? To kill him beyond the wall? 

[Meredith Quill]

7 minutes ago, nikma said:

so why didn't they? Why this season has smaller budget than S6? S6 was $100 million and S8 $90 million.

The logical deduction is they worked out with D&D what was sufficient. Had it been more episodes one assumes a higher budget would've followed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Point is, money is not the reason why the show ended at 73 episodes, otherwise HBO wouldn't have stated "We'll stick with the show as long as D&D continue to make it", that much is obvious.

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, Night Person said:

I

I would never have liked the suspected ending, but it might have been more believable and maybe even moving if their individual arcs (her descent into chaos because of the terrible things that happened to her and his horrible decision to end it) and their relationship had been better developed.

Or perhaps it is just right. 

Maybe Jon’s relationship with Dany stands in Comparison to his relationship with Ygritte, including the cave/waterfall scene, so we will know that it is really not a great and romantic love. 

Perhaps it stands in comparison to the sex/connectionArya has with Gendry and Brienne with Jamie this season because ... There is something in all of them but in the end it isn’t who Arya is, isn’t who Jamie is and isn’t who Jon is? Isn’t who Dany is?

she has always wanted fealty more than love, after all. 

Kit Harrington’s bond with Ygritte, Sam, Tormund, Mance, Arya, Ghost etc have all hit the Mark. Maybe this one is as well and it just isnt the mark we are expecting. His acting may be fine, he just may not be telling the expected story. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Affogato

[lvbalgurl]

20 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

I know that what I'm about to say is an unpopular opinion but here we go. If the spoilers are correct I don't have a problem with the way the story is going to end. In fact I like it. I think it's fitting and it makes total sense to me. So I'm gonna sit in the corner along with the other 5 ppl who share the same opinion.

I’ll join you at that table.  I’ve expected a WTFery-ever after ending since Catelyn, Robb, & Robb’s wife & unborn child got gutted at the Red Wedding.  If I had any illusions as to anything that would remotely come across as a happily ever after in the end, it was put to bed after those scenes.  Hell, I went into this season thinking the Night’s King or Cersei were going to triumph over everyone, so the fact that the NK is gone & that Cersei actually gets hers in the end is pretty optimistic for this show.

What I’m most intrigued about is the Faceless man spoiler I heard and whether that’s going to come to fruition.  Because that would just blow my mind. 

[BooBear]

3 minutes ago, lvbalgurl said:

I’ll join you at that table.  I’ve expected a WTFery-ever after ending since Catelyn, Robb, & Robb’s wife & unborn child got gutted at the Red Wedding.  If I had any illusions as to anything that would remotely come across as a happily ever after in the end, it was put to bed after those scenes.  

In the abstract I might not have had a problem with it but

1. The writing has not set this up. For Dany to "go mad" in the second to last episode turning on a dime, is laughable.  It isn't earned. 

2. Robb and Robbs wife and Ned were characters we followed for a little while, however, Dany is a character we have followed for 8 freaking years.  If TV shows are allowed to dispatch such characters in a cheap "subverting expectations" storyline.. why bother watching tv shows at all?  Also both Ned and Robb were earned storylines. Set up and even if you were shocked, you could see it happening. 

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

In the abstract I might not have had a problem with it but

1. The writing has not set this up. For Dany to "go mad" in the second to last episode turning on a dime, is laughable.  It isn't earned. 

2. Robb and Robbs wife and Ned were characters we followed for a little while, however, Dany is a character we have followed for 8 freaking years.  If TV shows are allowed to dispatch such characters in a cheap "subverting expectations" storyline.. why bother watching tv shows at all?  Also both Ned and Robb were earned storylines. Set up and even if you were shocked, you could see it happening. 

Well maybe what happens is earned as well. Maybe KL burns because Drogon dies and Dany moves (like Aerys) to set off the wildfire Cersei has set up and Jon, like Jamie before him, has to stop her. 

That would be earned. 

Maybe what happens will make sense when we see it. 

[Bianca Castafiore]

35 minutes ago, nikma said:

But now? To kill him beyond the wall? 

No. They would have to devote the majority of the season to the W/W storyline. No major battles between Dany's and Cersei's troops, maybe only a couple of moves so we can finish the Tyrell/Dorne storylines and build Euron a little bit more so he can look more menacing and not a caricature. Dany arrives in Westeros, meets Jon, their relationship developes, decides to help. They could have kept the stupid WW hunt but not to convince Cersei but Dany (which was exactly what happened afterall) so Vicerion is still lost. No pointless meeting with Cersei that only served as a fanservice to the audience so we could see all the characters together. Keep the meetings between the Lannister brothers so we can justify Jamie's  decision to leave his sister. The wall falls and we move to Winterfell exactly as we did this season (3 episodes). The NK is deafeted, and of season. Meaning of course 10 episodes.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Bianca Castafiore

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, GraceK said:

What really upsets me about this is how much Dany loves Jon. She has saved his life three times already, and has lost so much because of her good heart.  Screen wise, he doesn’t seem to feel the same. I’m not feeling the same amount of love from him , and it’s awful. Because if it’s purposely done, that means they have destroyed his character to the point that he manipulated a woman to use her for armies and dragons for a means to an end, just to murder her at the end of it all. Or he genuinely loves her and he is just really weak and can’t be there for her enough, and is just a crappy boyfriend. Either way? He sucks. And she deserves more than this IMO. It’s character assassination all around.

I’m not sensing true love  from either of them. I think she loved Jorah, frankly. This isn’t that kind of story and she wants power more than love and always makes that choice. She is conqueri g the north on her way to KL. In Meereen she freed the slaves, here she freed them from the NK , but the north mostly frees itself, as it turns out. This may not be a story that ends well for her but it may well be her own fault. 

[Pestilentia]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Part of me really wants Arya to get her most important name left crossed of her list though, so I mostly hope it's Arya, wearing Jaime's face.

I keep going back to Arya's telling Ed Sheeran's band of bros "I'm going to kill the Queen." It just rang so true to me in a very prescient manner.   

[BooBear]

Just now, Pestilentia said:

I keep going back to Arya's telling Ed Sheeran's band of bros "I'm going to kill the Queen." It just rang so true to me in a very prescient manner.   

If D&D wanted to subvert expectations they should have had Arya use the face abilities to get into the red keep but then had Arya take the face off so the Cerci knew who she was and that she was going to die at her hand.  I don't love the idea that she would think it was Jamie.. 

[nikma]

46 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

The logical deduction is they worked out with D&D what was sufficient. Had it been more episodes one assumes a higher budget would've followed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Point is, money is not the reason why the show ended at 73 episodes, otherwise HBO wouldn't have stated "We'll stick with the show as long as D&D continue to make it", that much is obvious.

Or maybe D&D decided the number of episodes after they saw how much money they have. Why they decided to have shorter season then? It's not like they worked less.

[Meredith Quill]

4 minutes ago, nikma said:

Or maybe D&D decided the number of episodes after they saw how much money they have. Why they decided to have shorter season then? It's not like they worked less.

It is fact that HBO committed to support GoT as long as D&D wanted. It is fact that D&D arbitrarily decided (way back when) that they wanted to end at 70 episodes. These are verifiable, google-able facts. That's all I can tell you.

[nikma]

25 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

No. They would have to devote the majority of the season to the W/W storyline. No major battles between Dany's and Cersei's troops, maybe only a couple of moves so we can finish the Tyrell/Dorne storylines and build Euron a little bit more so he can look more menacing and not a caricature. Dany arrives in Westeros, meets Jon, their relationship developes, decides to help. They could have kept the stupid WW hunt but not to convince Cersei but Dany (which was exactly what happened afterall) so Vicerion is still lost. No pointless meeting with Cersei that only served as a fanservice to the audience so we could see all the characters together. Keep the meetings between the Lannister brothers so we can justify Jamie's  decision to leave his sister. The wall falls and we move to Winterfell exactly as we did this season (3 episodes). The NK is deafeted, and of season. Meaning of course 10 episodes.

So the first 4 episodes of S7 could have been the same but then they go north to stop night king from attacking the Wall but they fail and the first 3 episodes of this season are the last 3 of S7?

Yeah. This would've been better. Spoils of War battle would've been cut.

[nikma]

Just now, SilverStormm said:

It is fact that HBO committed to support GoT as long as D&D wanted. It is fact that D&D arbitrarily decided they wanted to end at 70 episodes. These are verifiable, google-able facts. That's all I can tell you.

Do you really think they can say anything against HBO? They would never work in Hollywood again.

For me it's clear money influenced their creative decisions. Actors are more expensive than ever, CGI, battles and so on.

It makes no sense otherwise to do shorter seasons except if you believe that D&D are evil monsters that want to destroy their own show.

[Meredith Quill]

8 minutes ago, nikma said:

Do you really think they can say anything against HBO? They would never work in Hollywood again.

For me it's clear money influenced their creative decisions. Actors are more expensive than ever, CGI, battles and so on.

It makes no sense otherwise to do shorter seasons except if you believe that D&D are evil monsters that want to destroy their own show.

Go look at videos of them talking about it. Ask, what makes the most sense? That HBO would scupper not only its but the most successful show in history (particularly as they are looking at prequels/spinoffs which will also mean lots of money) or that the showrunners made the decision themselves? Occam's razor. 

ETA: Worth noting, they made this decision years ago, which also supports that it was a creative decision not a financial one. I would highly doubt that season budgets are worked out 3 or 4 years in advance. Here's an interview from April 2015 where they discuss it.

[nikma]

But what D&D got from shorter seasons? 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

As far as GRRM and Tolkien?  He's not going to mirror image that story.  I was watching a video, or reading one of his blogs this week, and he says something like:

1. He got into writing fantasy fiction because, although he loved Tolkien's books, there were parts of them that bothered him a great deal.
2. He ended up in some kind of group that dissected and analyzed Tolkien's work, and offered each other ideas of the improvements that needed to be made for the story to make any overall sense.
3. He loves Tolkien's work and none of that was meant as a slam on him.
4. He just felt it could be done better, a more complete tale could be told, a different tale, but yes, ASOFAI was loosely based on all of those connections.
5. He cited some specifics about things that bothered him, but I can't remember.  I think one of them was the way the story ended though, and I think he said that "what happens THEN?" was a part of his problem with them.

Anyway, I know it's out there, and honestly, it might all be in one of his not a blogs.

So I don't expect a Tolkien style ending, maybe touches of one, but nothing that follows that script.

I think the “promise of spring” which may never come 🙂 Would be planned aftermath.  One of the things that bothers me about this show is we won’t see the consequences. 

[Meredith Quill]

3 minutes ago, nikma said:

But what D&D got from shorter seasons? 

Your guess is as good as mine. Knowing they wanted 70 episodes from very early on (I still believe they lost motivation for the work after achieving the documented big goal they initially had of putting the Red Wedding on screen). It appears that they stuck to that goal as close as possible no matter what. They have repeatedly stated they wanted it to be 'a 70 hour movie'. 

[nikma]

Well my guess is that it was decision influenced by financial reasons, because it's not like they didn't work much longer and harder on these 13 episodes. So argument that they are tired and just want to move on never made any sense to me.

They spent 16 months shooting these 13 episodes. And in the past they were able to do 10 episodes in 5 and half months. Does this seems like something people who just want to move on do?

But no point in this discussion because we will never know.  This narrative that D&D are idiots and hacks and they betrayed HBO, poor GRRM, actors, directors and everyone else is completely unfair. IMO.

And that's everything I have to say on this topic. 

[Bianca Castafiore]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

Yeah. This would've been better. Spoils of War battle would've been cut.

Spoils of War would've been moved in the final season.

As for Cersei's end. At this point everyone and their dogs wants to kill her. So imo lets make her death the most satisfying for everyone and have her suffer the most.

I know the spoilers don't indicate that unfortunately. Jamie killing her it will be more of a closure for Jamie's arc (and fulfil that damn prophecy) but not enough for us imo. Too poetic.

Arya killing her would have been good but she already killed the NK and that was huge. Having the same person end both big baddies is a bit unticlimatic. We want others to join the fun lol!

Plus killing Cersei and Dany in a similar way doesn't sit well with me. Dany killed by Jon is ok with me, tragic and all. But she is not the same as Cersei and the show to portray her as such is wrong.

What whould have I done? Have Cersei witness everything collapse around her. Jamie, the only person who loves her, attempts to kill her and dies in front of her eyes. See her losing the baby and end in a pool of blood. Makes us think it's all over. And then in the last episode when we all think that was the end for her (and the internet goes nuts for a week), reveal her in the Drogonpit still alive. And execute her in front of everyone. Decapitation. By Tyrion. She is not pregnant anymore so no reservations. Let Lena and Peter chew the scenery and kill her again. Double the pleasure. Too much? Probably yes. But she and us the audience deserve this.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Bianca Castafiore

[nikma]

Or have people of KL tear her apart when she tries to escape.

[SeanC]

This has understandably gotten less focus among the supposed ending spoilers, but Tyrion freeing Jaime and telling him to take Cersei away...fuck off, Tyrion.  After all this crap, mere days after executing Missandei right in front of you, you’re still prioritizing her?  How many chances does she get to kill innocent people?  Even if it doesn’t happen that way this time.

Edited May 9, 2019 by SeanC

[SueB]

4 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Reason #452638 why the writing of military tactics is contrived drivel and dumb AF on the show. (The following could equally apply to, I don't know...a FLEET perhaps?)

Also, funny. 

Disclaimer: this isn't mine I found it elsewhere.

Brilliant!

[Eyes High]

23 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This has understandably gotten less focus among the supposed ending spoilers, but Tyrion freeing Jaime and telling him to take Cersei away...fuck off, Tyrion.  After all this crap, mere days after executing Missandei right in front of you, you’re still prioritizing her?  How many chances does she get to kill innocent people?  Even if it doesn’t happen that way this time.

Cersei paid off his best friend to kill him and his beloved brother and he didn't even blink. I doubt Missandei's death is going to shift the needle for him one way or the other. Missandei never liked Tyrion, and Tyrion must have figured she was dead the minute Cersei captured her.

I don't know about those particular spoilers, but I do think with the writers for S8, they ask themselves what's the most noble thing to do in any given situation, and just have Tyrion do that, whatever it is. They seem to think it's noble for Tyrion to want to save his sister's life and her unborn child's life no matter what, and so that's what he is going to do.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Eyes High

[Orwell1984]

Just throwing some spec out there, what if Dany orders cersei and the baby to be put to death.  This could signal a descent into '' madness''.  Tyrion will have an issue, thus wanting to free cersei.  Even Jon could view it as' 'not honourable' ', since the child would have been Dany or himself in the past. 

Jon and tyrion may distinguish killing cersei and killing her child. 

[YaddaYadda]

There's no way Cersei is pregnant. She used this so-called pregnancy as a shield and to make herself seem more vulnerable to Tyrion and Jaime and now she's telling Euron that she's pregnant with his kid. 

Jaime being all about Cersei is not a stretch, especially on the show. But there is zero excuse for Tyrion. And this guy will end up on a council to rule them all? Really? 

[SueB]

7 seasons is the typical contract length for the ‘Regular’ actors.  7 seasons x 10 episodes = 70 planned episodes.  That they got 3 more is a surprise IMO.  EC is on the big screen already.  Same with ST.  KH had indicated readiness to end.  

So 70 episodes means they don’t have to re-negotiate 10+ regular actor contracts.  They must have negotiated for 3 more with actors or had some clause that allowed them to go to 11 episodes each season (or every other season), this given the wiggle room to get to 73.  

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, nikma said:

so why didn't they? Why this season has smaller budget than S6? S6 was $100 million and S8 $90 million.

Shorter season

Season 6 had 10 episodes with a total running time of 561 minutes, which averages out to $178,253 per minute

Season 8 has 6 episodes with a total running time of 432 minutes, which averages out to $208,333 per minute

So they're actually spending almost 17% more in Season 8 per minute of screen time

[nikma]

I think Tyrion trial can still happen in E6. Trial for treason because he let Jaime go. But I think when Dany sentences him to death, that's the moment Jon will kill her.

And I think Dany will tell him she won't have negotiations with the North anymore.  They will accept her as the Queen or die. "They can live in her new world or they can die in their old one".

Also I won't be surprised if we have her coronation at the beginning of E6.

Edited May 9, 2019 by nikma

[nikma]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Shorter season

I get that. But my point is that they've decided to have shorter season when they saw how much money they have and not the other way around.

Because shorter seasons make no sense if you are going to work far more on them. But that's just my opinion.

[Eyes High]

32 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Jaime being all about Cersei is not a stretch, especially on the show. But there is zero excuse for Tyrion. And this guy will end up on a council to rule them all? Really? 

Tyrion is the only person apart from Varys who seems to care at all what happens to the innocent people in KL if Dany lights up the place, and is willing to risk his own life in a last-ditch effort to avoid a slaughter, so yeah. Sansa who so often gets touted as queen material was completely unconcerned about the looming catastrophe in KL, merely gloating to Jaime that she was going to miss his sister's execution. The guy who actually gives a shit about the people is probably the one who should be ruling them. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Eyes High