Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[screamin]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm like 99.9% convinced I'm wrong but, I'd love it, if this was all a setup by the Starks. It would actually make Jon interesting of he either played Sansa or decided with his Pack to make a play in the game. I mean Dany flat out told him what Sansa would do if she knew. It would be nice to see Jon's armor tarnished a bit. Instead of making him Need Stark levels of trusting/honorable/dumb

It would certainly go with Jon's polishing his own image at Dany's expense - making the North think that he HAD to give up his crown to Dany to get her to help, thus making him look self-sacrificing and her look greedy...as well as silently lapping up Tormund's praise for winning the battle and riding a dragon, instead of giving Dany her due credit for both those things.

It would be nice if the showrunners acknowledged that Jon was passively-aggressively maneuvering himself closer to grasping power by doing these things. It would be nice if someone confronted him about it and made him admit to himself he wasn't always the unselfish saint that he seems to like to think himself, that on some level, yes, he DOES want the power, and that, like it or not, he's contributing to Dany losing it. THAT would be more interesting than St. Jon.

 But it seems that the showrunners are in a great hurry and just want to sell us Jon as the humble unselfish paragon, without doing the work required.

Edited May 8, 2019 by screamin

[ursula]

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

Okay, the Dothraki are a randy bunch.  But I hope they're not going to pretend like the Westeros armies are too good to rape and pillage.  There are numerous instances of it in the books.

But no wildling or Vale soldier raped a Northerner when they retook Winterfell...! 😙

[Chiny11]

Seems the GOT fandom entertainment will kick into high gear after next Sunday's episode.   🤣🤣

[rmontro]

17 minutes ago, anamika said:

Context and story and journey matters. Waiting till the very end to turn against Dany destroys all the characters, destroys the story and there is nothing here at the end.

All this MIGHT be more palatable if it didn't all seem so rushed.  But instead they wait until the last three episodes and it just comes off as too sudden.  Dany has always had her flaws, but again, ALL the characters have flaws, that's what's made this show so interesting.  But this bad ending ends up wiping out all the good storytelling before it.

I went from thinking episode three was the coolest thing I had ever seen to hating episode four with the hate of a thousand suns because you can see where they're going with it.

16 minutes ago, screamin said:

It would certainly go with Jon's polishing his own image at Dany's expense - making the North think that he HAD to give up his crown to Dany to get her to help, thus making him look self-sacrificing and her look greedy...as well as silently lapping up Tormund's praise for winning the battle and riding a dragon, instead of giving Dany her due credit for both those things.

I admit it would be kind of funny if Jon were devious enough to actually be gaslighting Dany, but I don't think that's Jon's style.  His weakness are more like Ned's, too naive and trusting.  For instance, he trusted Sansa not to tell his secret, how did that work out lol?

Edited May 8, 2019 by rmontro

[GraceK]

Fire and Bells 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Edited May 8, 2019 by GraceK

[Chiny11]

4 minutes ago, GraceK said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂

The dragon has 3 bells. 😂😂

If nothing else, I am definitely enjoying the comedic relief of what is unfolding.  That’s all I can do right now. 

[catrice2]

After killing Missandei only as a plot device to fuel Dany's rage I am not AT ALL surprised that they will destroy Greyworm by having him turn into a killer without purpose exacting revenge on all the "innocents."  He is a savage after all.  

[magdalene]

I am afraid to watch the next episode now. I am not looking forward to watching Varys being burned alive and I hate rape as a plot device.

I have always loathed Cersei and I am no Dany fan but it rubs me the wrong way that this looks like lets put the evil and mad powerful women down like rabid dogs.  And leave it all with a council of all men.

[anamika]

I am spending my time on the reddits and the memes and comments making fun of the show is so much more entertaining than the actual show itself at this point. It's making the show's miserable writing more bearable.

There was one comment there about how Jon stabs Dany and his sword turns into lightbringer and Jon stands there wondering 'Now what?'!

[aprilbabe]

I must say, I have no issue with Dany executing Varys, not only is he actively plotting against her. But when Tyrion asked what about her, the look on his face was, "she clearly has to die" So yea fake as Varys can burn.

I wonder what Dany turning mad looks like. It seems that Greyworm starts the riot, so what does Dany being mad look like. Is she just yelling "Burn them all" laughing at the people dying, etc.

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

After killing Missandei only as a plot device to fuel Dany's rage I am not AT ALL surprised that they will destroy Greyworm by having him turn into a killer without purpose exacting revenge on all the "innocents."  He is a savage after all.  

Is that one of the spoilers?! If so, how degrading. I can see Greyworm going berserk on the Lannister forces, but innocents? Missandei would never want him to do that. 

[nikma]

D&D once again show that they don't care if someone is offended. Everyone will wathc the show anyway.

Edited May 8, 2019 by nikma

[Eyes High]

Book Jon is devious and manipulative as called for, but TV Jon is pretty much a human golden retriever.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, aprilbabe said:

I must say, I have no issue with Dany executing Varys, not only is he actively plotting against her. But when Tyrion asked what about her, the look on his face was, "she clearly has to die" So yea fake as Varys can burn.

I wonder what Dany turning mad looks like. It seems that Greyworm starts the riot, so what does Dany being mad look like. Is she just yelling "Burn them all" laughing at the people dying, etc.

I don’t know. I wonder if she cackles like a witch on her dragon and is all “ die my pretties die!!!”

[Chiny11]

More leaks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/khalesus/status/1125913629101047809?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1125913629101047809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231125913629101047809

Translation (As Is from the link above.):

"The episode begins with Daenerys in Rocadragón. She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. Her hair is lucky because Missandei died because she feels defeated. Tyrion and Varys are still arguing, Varys wants to betray her now so that she does not burn the king's landing. Tyrion tells him he will not do it. We see Tyrion and Gray Worm tell him that Gendry has arrived. The scene is cut. Then we see Jon with the Dothraki and immaculate. They talk about what they are going to die and those silly things. Tyrion tells him that Daenerys will lose the dragon and his mind. Jon defends her saying "She is my queen and she trusted her" and she gives Tyrion a look like the one she gave to Sansa in episode 4. We see Cersei talking to Euron and telling him that he has to win for his son, Euron asks him how Tyrion knows about his baby. Cersei tells him that it will not matter after they win the great war. Cut to Arya and the Dog arriving at the king's landing. Cut Jon again, he asks Gray Worm and Tyrion where Daenerys and tyrion is telling him he's already here. Those of the Gold Company come out and have a hostage (I do not know who it is). Euron is on the boats and sees the Yara boats. Then he hears Drogon's scream. Daenerys is using Aegon's strategy when he invaded harrenhal. We see her attacking from the top. She and Drogon scream at the same time. We see that both are wearing armor (dracarys euron ships, combination of yara and dany) Has the music like "Shall We Begin?" but much more intense. Euron and his men shoot Drogon and Daenerys but Daenerys dodges them like a pro. This moment Euron knows they are "fucked up." men jump from their boats. Jon and Gray Worm see that CD came in again. Gray Worm says they have to wait. Suddenly Drogon and Daenerys burn the scorpions and the gate so that their armies can enter. We see Jon smiling at Daenerys because he knew that she was not the crazy queen (the song truth). Well then we see the armies complete each other (all fighting together and effectively). * CERSEI DID SOMETHING I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT HE DID DO IT WITH TYRION HELP, I THINK IT HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING THE BLAME TO DAENERYS *. The final scene is Daenerys and Jon face to face."

Edited May 8, 2019 by Chiny11

[nikma]

only character that will have happy love story is GRRM's avatar. Lol

[anamika]

Over on FF a poster points out how Dany gets murdered by her lover while Cersei gets to die lovingly embraced by hers. Fucking D&D.

[Diana Berry]

22 hours ago, anamika said:

And this is the problem with the show destroying and undermining it's entire premise in episode 3. Dany was a fool to put the threat Jon was talking about above Cersei's threat. The threat up North was no big deal and all it needed was ninja Arya. Cersei did the right thing by staying put.  The whole thing was so inconsequential that it makes characters look foolish for worrying about the army of the dead in the first place. Even worse, it makes us the viewer feel foolish for ever having cared at all.

And now Dany is losing everything and the people she went up North to help are scheming against her and her advisers are treacherous and Jon is useless. Her attacking KL now with all she's got actually makes sense - but the show is trying to frame that as her being 'mad' for some reason via Varys/Tyrion and I don't know why the hell the audience would chose to listen to these idiots considering they have been useless for the past two seasons.

From what I can see online, this episode has pretty much turned most of the online fans into Dany supporters and against the Starks and that's something I am sure the show was not intending. Even ASoIaF Reddit which usually hates Dany and is pro-Stark is now the other way around after this episode.

That's what happens when you use bad writing to push the 'mad Dany' narrative when everything she has done and will do in the future is justified as right by the books and the show's own mythology in past seasons.

If Tyrion frees Jaime to go rescue Cersei after everything Cersei has done and Dany wants Tyrion executed, she is entirely 100% justified. And if Jon then kills Dany to prevent this, Jon is the mad, bad guy here, not Dany. Jon is the villain who murders this person he supposedly loves because two faced Tyrion asked him to. So if these spoilers are right

then Jon's character is simply the worst. They would have destroyed him.

Probably Kit Harington did end up reading the scripts and was so pissed that he did not bother to email the Ds and then just lied when meeting them about how he wanted it to be a surprise.

And apparently the last episode got one of the lowest ratings for GOT on IMDB.

I'm sorry I just can't see Jon doing that to Dany.  If true, poor Kit.I also had avoided spoilers until having a sinking feeling after E4 that I might letdown after E5&6

[screamin]

9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I admit it would be kind of funny if Jon were devious enough to actually be gaslighting Dany, but I don't think that's Jon's style.  His weakness are more like Ned's, too naive and trusting.  For instance, he trusted Sansa not to tell his secret, how did that work out lol?

I agree it's not Jon's style to do that either - at least not consciously. But what we've seen on the show is that Jon has done undermining things to Dany - saying to the Council that he HAD to give up the throne to get her help when she was willing to help without conditions, silently accepting fealty as a monarch and fulsome praise from Tormond in front of Dany with a shit-eating grin, without passing on to Dany her due share.

If he didn't do them consciously, then he did them unconsciously. It would be interesting for one of the characters to confront him with these things and seriously ask him if he REALLY is as disinterested in power as he pretends to be, make him examine himself and maybe admit there's a part of him that wants to be the reasonable alternative to Dany that people will eventually pick, even if he's horrified at the realization.

I think that would be a better fit to the Jon that the books will eventually show...Didn't GRRM say that people come back from death changed? We haven't really seen much of that in Show Jon. But if Book Jon is supposed to come back meaner - and if people come back from the dead fixated on what they had been bound to do when they die - maybe Book Jon comes back a lot more fixated on getting and hanging on to power than he was when he got stabbed by his own men. Maybe that's the book endpoint GRRM gave to showrunners to aim at - but the showrunners haven't done the work to get there.

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

More leaks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/khalesus/status/1125913629101047809?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1125913629101047809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231125913629101047809

Translation (As Is from the link above.):

[bold]"The episode begins with Daenerys in Rocadragón. She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. Her hair is lucky because Missandei died because she feels defeated. Tyrion and Varys are still arguing, Varys wants to betray her now so that she does not burn the king's landing. Tyrion tells him he will not do it. We see Tyrion and Gray Worm tell him that Gendry has arrived. The scene is cut. Then we see Jon with the Dothraki and immaculate. They talk about what they are going to die and those silly things. Tyrion tells him that Daenerys will lose the dragon and his mind. Jon defends her saying "She is my queen and she trusted her" and she gives Tyrion a look like the one she gave to Sansa in episode 4. We see Cersei talking to Euron and telling him that he has to win for his son, Euron asks him how Tyrion knows about his baby. Cersei tells him that it will not matter after they win the great war. Cut to Arya and the Dog arriving at the king's landing. Cut Jon again, he asks Gray Worm and Tyrion where Daenerys and tyrion is telling him he's already here. Those of the Gold Company come out and have a hostage (I do not know who it is). Euron is on the boats and sees the Yara boats. Then he hears Drogon's scream. Daenerys is using Aegon's strategy when he invaded harrenhal. We see her attacking from the top. She and Drogon scream at the same time. We see that both are wearing armor (dracarys euron ships, combination of yara and dany) Has the music like "Shall We Begin?" but much more intense. Euron and his men shoot Drogon and Daenerys but Daenerys dodges them like a pro. This moment Euron knows they are "fucked up." men jump from their boats. Jon and Gray Worm see that CD came in again. Gray Worm says they have to wait. Suddenly Drogon and Daenerys burn the scorpions and the gate so that their armies can enter. We see Jon smiling at Daenerys because he knew that she was not the crazy queen (the song truth). Well then we see the armies complete each other (all fighting together and effectively). * CERSEI DID SOMETHING I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT HE DID DO IT WITH TYRION HELP, I THINK IT HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING THE BLAME TO DAENERYS *. The final scene is Daenerys and Jon face to face."[/bold]

Well these seem a lot more reasonable and confirms the Tyrion betrayal.  🤷🏻‍♀️

[anamika]

5 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

CERSEI DID SOMETHING I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT HE DID DO IT WITH TYRION HELP, I THINK IT HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING THE BLAME TO DAENERYS *. The final scene is Daenerys and Jon face to face."

Does not matter. Even if Cersei/Tyrion are framing Dany and Jon kills her - same shitty result.  Jon killing Dany by considering Tyrion's word as gospel - to hell with that. He is still villain Jon at this point.

[Umbelina]

Any Spanish speakers here to give a better translation that google translate?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Umbelina

[Chiny11]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Well these seem a lot more reasonable and confirms the Tyrion betrayal.  🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah...but the "bell-triggered madness" scenario would make for entertaining online thinkpieces. 😂

[Umbelina]

There is a better translation right under the reddit post above.

[BooBear]

10 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

More leaks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/khalesus/status/1125913629101047809?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1125913629101047809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231125913629101047809

Translation (As Is from the link above.):

[bold]"The episode begins with Daenerys in Rocadragón. She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. Her hair is lucky because Missandei died because she feels defeated. Tyrion and Varys are still arguing, Varys wants to betray her now so that she does not burn the king's landing. 

Ok that was hard to read. All I got out of it was the Dany would get armor for Dragon and take Euron out. I kind of knew that from the teaser. But the twitter feed has photos

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, BooBear said:

Ok that was hard to read. All I got out of it was the Dany would get armor for Dragon and take Euron out. I kind of knew that from the teaser. But the twitter feed has photos

Slightly better translation?

The episode begins with Daenerys in Dragonstone. She is sad because of the previous events. Her hair is loose because of how Missandei perished and she is sad. Tyrion and Varys are arguing. Varys wants to betray her now so she doesn’t burn King’s Landing. Tyrion says she will not do it. Greyworm tells Tyrion Gentry has arrived. Cut scene. We see John with the Dothraki and Unsullied. They have smalltalk and discuss who will die. Tyrion says that Danarys will lose her dragon and mind. Jon defends her saying she is my Queen and I believe in her and gives Tyrion a look similar to the one he gave Sansa in episode 4. We see Cersei speaking with Enron and telling him he needs to win for his son. euron asks how Tyrion knew about the baby. Cersei says it won’t matter after they win. Arya and the Dog reach King’s Landing. Now Jon is asking Greyworm and Tyrion where Daenerys is and they say she is already here. The gold Company come out and they have a hostage (not sure who it is). Euron is on the ships and he see Yara’s ships.He then hears drogon’s scream. Daenerys is using the same strategy used by Aegon when he invaded Harrenhal. We see them attacking from very high. She and Drogon scream at the same time. They are both wearing armor (dracarys Euron’s ships with the combination of Dany and Yara). The music of Shall We begin plays but much more intense. Euron and his men shoot at Drogon and Danny but she avoids them like a pro. At this moment Euron knows he’s fucked and they all jump in the ocean. Drogon and Danny then burn the escapements on the fortress and the main gate so the armies can enter. Jon smiles at Danny because he knows she is not the mad queen (the truth song). The garrisons fight together. Cersei did something with the help of Tyrion, but I’m not sure what it is, but it has to do with blaming Danny. The final scene is Danny and Jon face to face.

Edited May 8, 2019 by GraceK

[screamin]

9 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

More leaks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/khalesus/status/1125913629101047809?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1125913629101047809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231125913629101047809

Translation (As Is from the link above.):

"The episode begins with Daenerys in Rocadragón. She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. Her hair is lucky because Missandei died because she feels defeated. Tyrion and Varys are still arguing, Varys wants to betray her now so that she does not burn the king's landing. Tyrion tells him he will not do it. We see Tyrion and Gray Worm tell him that Gendry has arrived. The scene is cut. Then we see Jon with the Dothraki and immaculate. They talk about what they are going to die and those silly things. Tyrion tells him that Daenerys will lose the dragon and his mind. Jon defends her saying "She is my queen and she trusted her" and she gives Tyrion a look like the one she gave to Sansa in episode 4. We see Cersei talking to Euron and telling him that he has to win for his son, Euron asks him how Tyrion knows about his baby. Cersei tells him that it will not matter after they win the great war. Cut to Arya and the Dog arriving at the king's landing. Cut Jon again, he asks Gray Worm and Tyrion where Daenerys and tyrion is telling him he's already here. Those of the Gold Company come out and have a hostage (I do not know who it is). Euron is on the boats and sees the Yara boats. Then he hears Drogon's scream. Daenerys is using Aegon's strategy when he invaded harrenhal. We see her attacking from the top. She and Drogon scream at the same time. We see that both are wearing armor (dracarys euron ships, combination of yara and dany) Has the music like "Shall We Begin?" but much more intense. Euron and his men shoot Drogon and Daenerys but Daenerys dodges them like a pro. This moment Euron knows they are "fucked up." men jump from their boats. Jon and Gray Worm see that CD came in again. Gray Worm says they have to wait. Suddenly Drogon and Daenerys burn the scorpions and the gate so that their armies can enter. We see Jon smiling at Daenerys because he knew that she was not the crazy queen (the song truth). Well then we see the armies complete each other (all fighting together and effectively). * CERSEI DID SOMETHING I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT HE DID DO IT WITH TYRION HELP, I THINK IT HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING THE BLAME TO DAENERYS *. The final scene is Daenerys and Jon face to face."

I expect Cersei has pulled an Aerys and seeded the city with wildfire - making sure that if the Red Keep goes up, everything goes up, and Dany is blamed regardless of whether she's guilty of all the carnage or not.

I like this spoiler. If it's true, then Jon, at least, will know Dany's not guilty of everything she's blamed for, and therefore isn't likely to be her killer (an ending I would hate.) I'm weird in that I don't want her to die stabbed by her lover, but I also don't want her to sit the Iron Throne (nor do I want anyone else to, that thing's more trouble than it's worth). I'm still hoping for her to find her house with a red door (maybe on Naath with Grey Worm and his remaining troops there to keep away slavers).

[Umbelina]

Tyrion "did something" may just be that he is the one who discovered the wildfire caches, used when saving KL early on.

[call me ishmael]

Just now, Umbelina said:

Tyrion "did something" may just be that he is the one who discovered the wildfire caches, used when saving KL early on.

Then why would Dany be blamed?

[anamika]

Here's the thing though. If Greyworm and the Unsullied are going on a rampage in KL killing people, what were they filming in Seville at the Dragonpit?  We know they filmed. We saw picture of the extras there.

It looks like BoatsexBaby was right here and they were filming action scenes there. And not any trial.

[Chiny11]

7 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Slightly better translation?

The episode begins with Daenerys in Dragonstone. She is sad because of the previous events. Her hair is loose because of how Missandei perished and she is sad. Tyrion and Varys are arguing. Varys wants to betray her now so she doesn’t burn King’s Landing. Tyrion says she will not do it. Greyworm tells Tyrion Gentry has arrived. Cut scene. We see John with the Dothraki and Unsullied. They have smalltalk and discuss who will die. Tyrion says that Danarys will lose her dragon and mind. Jon defends her saying she is my Queen and I believe in her and gives Tyrion a look similar to the one he gave Sansa in episode 4. We see Cersei speaking with Enron and telling him he needs to win for his son. euron asks how Tyrion knew about the baby. Cersei says it won’t matter after they win. Arya and the Dog reach King’s Landing. Now Jon is asking Greyworm and Tyrion where Daenerys is and they say she is already here. The gold Company come out and they have a hostage (not sure who it is). Euron is on the ships and he see Yara’s ships.He then hears drogon’s scream. Daenerys is using the same strategy used by Aegon when he invaded Harrenhal. We see them attacking from very high. She and Drogon scream at the same time. They are both wearing armor (dracarys Euron’s ships with the combination of Dany and Yara). The music of Shall We begin plays but much more intense. Euron and his men shoot at Drogon and Danny but she avoids them like a pro. At this moment Euron knows he’s fucked and they all jump in the ocean. Drogon and Danny then burn the escapements on the fortress and the main gate so the armies can enter. Jon smiles at Danny because he knows she is not the mad queen (the truth song). The garrisons fight together. Cersei did something with the help of Tyrion, but I’m not sure what it is, but it has to do with blaming Danny. The final scene is Danny and Jon face to face.

I’m glad Yara is back.  

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

Then why would Dany be blamed?

Fire is fire.

Cersei setting Dany up to ensure "her people" hate her.  Dany is predictable, she always reverts to dragon fire.  Cersei knows that, probably knows she will also lose, so wants to ensure that Dany "loses" too, as she will be blamed for the fire by attacking with fire, which sets off wildfire.

[screamin]

3 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

Then why would Dany be blamed?

Because fire, I suppose? If the city blows up in flames after a dragon attacked it, Cersei would hope that the rider of the dragon will be blamed.

I don't know that panicky defeatist talking will get Tyrion judged a traitor by itself - he has to do something more concrete.

What I'm wondering is, if Qyburn might, with all his necromancy, be some sort of worshipper or avatar of the NK - why else would he be so eager to set a whole city afire and side with such a nihilist?

[kittykat]

I'm going with Tyrion helped Cersei out of the city hence the betrayal.  It's sounding like the episode is half strategy/half battle.  From the leaks the GC is a huge macguffin and the battle is heavily one sided favoring Team North with the conflict being the discovery of wildfire caches.

I can't quite believe that Dany will go mad queen someone said above that her actions are more equivalent to Viserys than Aerys.  She is so close to the throne but things keep going wrong that it's driving her to the brink.  When her Angry Episode Closing face appeared, I yelled at my screen "Cersei just woke the dragon!"

ETA I had assumed that if the battle was going sour on Team North that Edmure and the Riverlands would provide the 3rd act bailout but it seems like they aren't involved.  I speculated that maybe Sansa would send a Raven if she knew things were going bad for team North.  She hates Dany but she really hates Cersei and could see her calling in a you owe me for back up reinforcements.  I'm going with no since leaks don't confirm any Tully banners.

Edited May 8, 2019 by kittykat

[Brn2bwild]

4 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but fuck Bronn.  What remotely virtuous thing has that guy done that he would merit getting Highgarden and a seat at the council table?  Dany gets killed for having ambition, but he gets to keep rising?  Fuck his broish ass.

And just to add, how is that a sign of trying to make the world better, by having someone with zero ethics occupy one of the most powerful seats of the Seven Kingdoms? 

He would outrank Sam!  If anyone should be Lord of Highgarden, it's Sam, given his family's location and blood ties to the Tyrells.  I really, really hope this spoiler is fake, but given D&D's other writing, it's probably 100 percent true. 

[call me ishmael]

Just now, Umbelina said:

Fire is fire.

Cersei setting Dany up to ensure "her people" hate her.  Dany is predictable, she always reverts to dragon fire.  Cersei knows that, probably knows she will also lose, so wants to ensure that Dany "loses" too, as she will be blamed for the fire by attacking with fire, which sets off wildfire.

No i get that.  But i thought that Tyrion is supposed to convince Jon that it is Dany’s fault and you were raising the possibility that Tyrion found the wildfire.  Wouldn’t that lead to him saying it wasn’t her fault unless he covers for Cersei?

[Eyes High]

The Spanish spoilers are garbage, just an attempt to pull the wool over Jon/Dany shippers’ eyes (just like that person who posted to Westeros.org). Even without reference to any potential leaks, it’s clear that Varys is obviously getting executed by Dany as she once warned him would happen and Dany is obviously going full mad queen. 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

No i get that.  But i thought that Tyrion is supposed to convince Jon that it is Dany’s fault and you were raising the possibility that Tyrion found the wildfire.  Wouldn’t that lead to him saying it wasn’t her fault unless he covers for Cersei?

This leak says Tyrion is still team Dany.

I don't see how Tyrion finding the wildfire caches years ago (and using them carefully) leads to him saying anything about Cersei.

[nikma]

So how will these things happen in the books?.

[GraceK]

I’ve been hurt too many times to believe in hope anymore. 

[magdalene]

Do those spoilers that claim Dany is driven mad by the sound of bells have a legit source?

[call me ishmael]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

This leak says Tyrion is still team Dany.

I don't see how Tyrion finding the wildfire caches years ago (and using them carefully) leads to him saying anything about Cersei.

Maybe I misunderstood.  I thought the implication was that Tyrion said something to Jon that led him to turn against Dany.  If that’s wrong then yes, you are right.

[Minneapple]

4 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Do those spoilers that claim Dany is driven mad by the sound of bells have a legit source?

What the hell? Where did those spoilers come from?

I think I need more popcorn. 

[anamika]

22 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

I’m glad Yara is back.  

Best character honestly. Hopefully based on Seville filming she survives.

[ShellsandCheese]

Regardless of how this show ends, I don't want to see Tyrion anywhere near a ruling council of any sort. Here's two really good reasons: 

1. He refused to see what a monster his sister was and was trying to plead and bargain with her past the point of no return 

2. If they really do go the Mad Queen route with Dany, see number one. Someone who is so smart and so invested in the realm should have seen that and shouldn't have aligned himself with such a person. Although with the writers, I'm sure they say on one side of their mouth that Dany was mad along and on the other say, Tyrion had no idea - there were no signs. 

Simply put, he may be smart but clearly, he has piss poor judgment. 

[screamin]

I'm wondering what Varys will DO to be considered a traitor. He seems so powerless right now. You would think that in KL, his old stomping grounds, Dany would at least TRY to use him to get into those tunnels and in touch with his old network of kids, and he would maybe turn that against her somehow...but how to do that if the whole city's going up?

[Chiny11]

2 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Regardless of how this show ends, I don't want to see Tyrion anywhere near a ruling council of any sort. Here's two really good reasons: 

1. He refused to see what a monster his sister was and was trying to plead and bargain with her past the point of no return 

2. If they really do go the Mad Queen route with Dany, see number one. Someone who is so smart and so invested in the realm should have seen that and shouldn't have aligned himself with such a person. Although with the writers, I'm sure they say on one side of their mouth that Dany was mad along and on the other say, Tyrion had no idea - there were no signs. 

Simply put, he may be smart but clearly, he has piss poor judgment. 

He is a shadow of himself.  Unless there is a final twist with this character, I don't see how anyone would say he is the smartest person in the room.  Even Cersie (since season 6) is way smarter.  

[ShellsandCheese]

1 minute ago, Chiny11 said:

He is a shadow of himself.  Unless there is a final twist with this character, I don't see how anyone would say he is the smartest person in the room.  Even Cersie (since season 6) is way smarter.

Exactly! 

[JennyMominFL]

9 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Regardless of how this show ends, I don't want to see Tyrion anywhere near a ruling council of any sort. Here's two really good reasons: 

1. He refused to see what a monster his sister was and was trying to plead and bargain with her past the point of no return 

2. If they really do go the Mad Queen route with Dany, see number one. Someone who is so smart and so invested in the realm should have seen that and shouldn't have aligned himself with such a person. Although with the writers, I'm sure they say on one side of their mouth that Dany was mad along and on the other say, Tyrion had no idea - there were no signs. 

Simply put, he may be smart but clearly, he has piss poor judgment. 

Where is the info that Dany goes “mad”? What im seeing may be possible is that she goes full on ruthless, borderline evil. That’s not the same as talks to the fairys has visions , mad. I  i have not seen that idea aside of the weird bells make her crazy possible spoiler. If she does that then I agree they have made her “mad” and she has not been shown to be mad..   But if she goes to the dark side, well I think there is precedent.

Edited May 8, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[MrsR]

Well, I'm happy. It's matching my expectations. The Wars of the Roses was an exceptionally brutal period. Tremendous devastation.  Nine noble families went extinct. The biggest bloodiest battle in English history occurred in the middle of it. It ushered in the Tudors and they continued the carnage. I never expected any kind of happy ending. 

Everyone ends up dead in Hamlet. Titus Andronicus. Macbeth. etc. They're called tragedies. That's where this has always been heading. 

Varys always hated those bells.

Edited May 8, 2019 by MrsR