Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Smad]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Also if you look at execution scene, it looks like they throw Missendeei’s headless body over the wall. You see it behind Tyrion as he looks away. So it’s especially brutal and disrespectful. So anyone saying that Dany isn’t justified to go apeshit, or that Cersei doesn’t deserve to die horribly is wrong. Cersei is the villain, not Daenerys. 

You know when it comes to going apeshit on KL and it's common folk, I absolutely agree. If it were anywhere else in Westeros I would disagree. But KL has it coming. These are the people who didn't storm the Red Keep and didn't string Cersei up after she literally blew up the Vatikan which killed the beloved pope, the beloved queen and the beloved king killed himself as a result. And now if the leaks are true, they let themselves be herded like cattle to be used as leverage by Cersei.

KL has at least 500k people in it, if not more. Even with the GC, Cersei literally doesn't have enough power to stop half a million people from taking action against her. But apparently the people there are a collective group of spineless morons. Kill them all as far as I'm concerned. It's sad that most of the people with spine died last episode. NK should have went south to KL and torched the place, at least then these useless morons would have finally stood up for something, after coming back as wights that is. Or maybe that's why he didn't do it, knowing that even as wights they wouldn't have a spine and fight.

[MarySNJ]

3 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

I always assumed there would be no Iron Throne at the end, so I assumed Dany would die too.

I also assumed there would be no Iron Throne at the end, because it’s a symbol of conquest and Daenerys wanted to break the wheel.  Silly me for believing what the writers wrote. 

[Minneapple]

24 minutes ago, Lillith said:

Wouldn't all of this be the "fault" of GRRM? The Dothraki were based on the Mongols with a dash of the Native American Plains tribes. 

The whole "white savior" thing with Dany is lame but also not their invention. 

Well, it's partly the fault of GRRM. But here's the thing. There is absolutely no reason some characters couldn't be a different race on television. Varys, Jorah, Littlefinger. Cast, for example, Asian actors as the Greyjoys. Instead you had a mostly white cast with the exception of the savage Dothraki. I wish I could say this was out of the ordinary for Hollywood, but it's really not. 

I mean, even now after they've been called on it multiple times, the show has issues with race. Missandei who is supposed to be Dany's best friend and adviser has had zero scenes with her thus far this season, and now she's beheaded. And this is why people of color have come to have very low expectations with representation on television.

[magdalene]

I have no problem with Dany taking vengeance on Cersei, the Mountain, etc.

I have however a big problem if she takes out her rage on KL, a city of a million innocent people who just want to live their lives.  That's genocide and people who commit genocide need to be stopped in a permanent way.

[JennyMominFL]

7 minutes ago, ihavenoidea said:

My problem is not that Jon thinks Dany has gone too far and needs to be taken out if she indeed goes insane, my problem is the lead up to it was practically non existent.  This season started and suddenly Dany was portrayed as straight up crazy.  I remember telling my friend that it was like she had a huge neon sign on her forehead that said evil in 8x01.  We've seen absolutely nothing in prior seasons absent burning the Tarly's the would lead up to this imo.  People love Brienne and Jaime because it was built up through seasons.  This Jon/Dany thing and now crazy Dany was like a last minute thing they rushed through just to get to because the plot demanded it.  It's hugely unsatisfying.

See , I think  she has always shown signs of this. My rewatch of season 2-4 this week confirms it. I know some view her crucifixion of slavers as just. I dont see it that way, nor do I see the sackings she ordered as ok even if the people involved were bad. I don't necessarily think what shes going to do means she is crazy, but that she is ruthless when pushed. And I know that war does this sort of thing to people. So to me its consistent with what GRRM has been saying and power and ambition.

Edited May 5, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[aprilbabe]

I just want to know what happens to Drogon, I doubt him flying off with Dany, is the last we see of him. What happens after that? Where does he go? Why don't animators have that info?

[Lillith]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Well, it's partly the fault of GRRM. But here's the thing. There is absolutely no reason some characters couldn't be a different race on television. Varys, Jorah, Littlefinger. Cast, for example, Asian actors as the Greyjoys. Instead you had a mostly white cast with the exception of the savage Dothraki. I wish I could say this was out of the ordinary for Hollywood, but it's really not. 

I mean, even now after they've been called on it multiple times, the show has issues with race. Missandei who is supposed to be Dany's best friend and adviser has had zero scenes with her thus far this season, and now she's beheaded. And this is why people of color have come to have very low expectations with representation on television.

The Greyjoys are raping, pillaging pirates, I can only see the reaction if they had been protrayed by Asian actors. The Mormonts are from the North, the North in this case is white so that's Jorah. Varys could have definietly been a person of color.  The criticims have merit. The Dorne actors are largely *ahem* ethnic and they're of course hot tempered and sexysexy! Since the story is based on medieval England for me I can't get too upset and certainly don't think D and D are these racist, sexist terrible people. And I'm multiracial before that comes up by the way. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Lillith
They and The are not the same thing.

[JennyMominFL]

8 minutes ago, Smad said:

You know when it comes to going apeshit on KL and it's common folk, I absolutely agree. If it were anywhere else in Westeros I would disagree. But KL has it coming. These are the people who didn't storm the Red Keep and didn't string Cersei up after she literally blew up the Vatikan which killed the beloved pope, the beloved queen and the beloved king killed himself as a result. And now if the leaks are true, they let themselves be herded like cattle to be used as leverage by Cersei.

KL has at least 500k people in it, if not more. Even with the GC, Cersei literally doesn't have enough power to stop half a million people from taking action against her. But apparently the people there are a collective group of spineless morons. Kill them all as far as I'm concerned. It's sad that most of the people with spine died last episode. NK should have went south to KL and torched the place, at least then these useless morons would have finally stood up for something, after coming back as wights that is. Or maybe that's why he didn't do it, knowing that even as wights they wouldn't have a spine and fight.

This post is disturbing on so many levels

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I also assumed there would be no Iron Throne at the end, because it’s a symbol of conquest and Daenerys wanted to break the wheel.  Silly me for believing what the writers wrote. 

The writers were always so vague about what breaking the wheel meant that I suspected that Dany was never going to get a chance to do it.

5 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Well, it's partly the fault of GRRM. But here's the thing. There is absolutely no reason some characters couldn't be a different race on television. Varys, Jorah, Littlefinger. Cast, for example, Asian actors as the Greyjoys. Instead you had a mostly white cast with the exception of the savage Dothraki. I wish I could say this was out of the ordinary for Hollywood, but it's really not. 

I mean, even now after they've been called on it multiple times, the show has issues with race. Missandei who is supposed to be Dany's best friend and adviser has had zero scenes with her thus far this season, and now she's beheaded. And this is why people of color have come to have very low expectations with representation on television.

The TV landscape has changed a lot with respect to diversity in the past 10 years from when the pilot was originally cast. I think if the pilot were cast in 2019 instead of 2009, you’d see a much more diverse group.

[Umbelina]

29 minutes ago, Jewlmc said:

And clearly not a memorable or important scene as Dany will be a cartoon villian as opposed to chain/wheel breaker.

Well, at least partly because of her actions, looks like the wheel/chains, and also the throne and monarchy IS finally broken after all.

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I never read the books so GoT was my introduction to this world and Ned losing his head was a total shock to me, I was devastated. After that I read a summary of every character I loved to make sure they survived (at least until where they were in the books that were out).

Those 2 events (Ned and Rob were my favorite characters) pretty much convinced me this is just going to end badly.

Oh, it was a shock when reading the books too!  Ha.

I never liked Ned though, he was much too stupid for me, and his actions and blind stupidity caused so much heartbreak.  From killing a witness to the White Walkers to telling Cersei his plans, he was a complete and utter idiot.

He was honorable, but I like brains with my honor.

I agree though, lots of decent people have already died.  Dany had decency in her as well, her death is just another one in a long line of deaths.

I never disliked Dany, but I ALWAYS, through the books and show disliked all of these so-called nobles ruining the world for the vast majority of people. 

While Dany and Cersei picked out their outfits, and all the men picked out their fancy armor, while scolding "small folk" for anything that didn't make THEIR lives "perfect" and lush?  Yeah, fuck all of them.

Meanwhile, people are eating rats in KL or starving to death on burned out farms while burying their children, brothers, sisters, parents, spouses, friends...all sacrificed so a very few people could claim power and privilege.

If they nail the ending, and they just might since Tyrion gives the speech that unites them into a new way of governing, one that cares about all the people instead of a few rich "families?"  I will cheer.

[Oscirus]

Yea, no. This aint about a happy ending, A lot of people were expecting Dany to go mad and for Jon to have to put her down. The problem is the way they did it. 8 seasons to build up to this and they did it in the laziest way possible.  

If you know the ending, write towards the ending. Don't keep writing your own story and then building force your story to veer towards the ending.  This shit is sloppy as fuck and you're almost definitely gonna have a huge chunk of your audience chanting burn it down with Dany while she kills innocents. 

[Minneapple]

Just now, Lillith said:

They Greyjoys are raping, pillaging pirates, I can only see the reaction if they had been protrayed by Asian actors. The Mormonts are from the North, the North in this case is white so that's Jorah. Varys could have definietly been a person of color.  The criticims have merit. The Dorne actors are largely *ahem* ethnic and they're of course hot tempered and sexysexy! Since the story is based on medieval England for me I can't get too upset and certainly don't think D and D are these racist, sexist terrible people. And I'm multiracial before that comes up by the way. 

If you cast enough people of color in different roles, no one can say "well, you only cast people of color as horrible people." And, the Greyjoys also have Theon and Yara, two characters fighting the good fight.

Where does it say people from the North have to be white? It does not, and even if it does in the books...just change it.

[GraceK]

9 minutes ago, Smad said:

You know when it comes to going apeshit on KL and it's common folk, I absolutely agree. If it were anywhere else in Westeros I would disagree. But KL has it coming. These are the people who didn't storm the Red Keep and didn't string Cersei up after she literally blew up the Vatikan which killed the beloved pope, the beloved queen and the beloved king killed himself as a result. And now if the leaks are true, they let themselves be herded like cattle to be used as leverage by Cersei.

KL has at least 500k people in it, if not more. Even with the GC, Cersei literally doesn't have enough power to stop half a million people from taking action against her. But apparently the people there are a collective group of spineless morons. Kill them all as far as I'm concerned. It's sad that most of the people with spine died last episode. NK should have went south to KL and torched the place, at least then these useless morons would have finally stood up for something, after coming back as wights that is. Or maybe that's why he didn't do it, knowing that even as wights they wouldn't have a spine and fight.

I agree. Not to mention the occupants of KL have been shown to throw shit at naked women, riot, blindly follow the High Sparrow, and generally seem to bend whichever way the wind blows and cheer for heads on spikes. Not exactly the best of humanity. 

[BooBear]

7 minutes ago, ihavenoidea said:

My problem is not that Jon thinks Dany has gone too far and needs to be taken out if she indeed goes insane, my problem is the lead up to it was practically non existent.  This season started and suddenly Dany was portrayed as straight up crazy.  I remember telling my friend that it was like she had a huge neon sign on her forehead that said evil in 8x01.  We've seen absolutely nothing in prior seasons absent burning the Tarly's the would lead up to this imo.  People love Brienne and Jaime because it was built up through seasons.  This Jon/Dany thing and now crazy Dany was like a last minute thing they rushed through just to get to because the plot demanded it.  It's hugely unsatisfying.

Agreed. I also, to back up a bit, do not think Dany would go crazy on Kings Landing. There is just no need for it. If yes, she took down 500 or so innocents killing Cersie, I am on board with that because Cersie has to be taken out. However, it is bad writing that Dany would do that.  She has NEVER shown such tendencies before. Always doing what she thought was necessary and NO MORE.  To have her just "lose it" for reasons that do not seem to justify it and further, for one one to try to take out Dragon (instead of Dany) is just plain bad writing fueled by sexism. And how convent there i no one around to bring Dany back from the dead. Guess women don't get second chances like Jon. 

Plus what was the point of Season 7? 

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, BooBear said:

I doubt it. Legit publications like Variety have confirmed that Episode 4 was mistakenly released this morning in Germany by mistake. The clips only went up about 3 hours ago. They are from the episode. 

Seeing Missandei and Rhaegal die (and Brienne and Jaime have sex, ugh) is not so unbelievable.  Mad Queen Dany threatening to burn them all and being killed by Jon is what we're hoping is fake.

[Lillith]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

I agree. Not to mention the occupants of KL have been shown to throw shit at naked women, riot, blindly follow the High Sparrow, and generally seem to bend whichever way the wind blows and cheer for heads on spikes. Not exactly the best of humanity. 

Actually they're just like most of humanity rich or poor. Look at the behavior of people right now. Or even more apropriately in the aftermath of WWII. People, even the "good guys" were cruel, vengeful and savage. And the people of KL who are downtrodden are IMO even more likely to use any excuse to lash out. I mean of course they threw shit at Cersei and were ready to rip the nobles apart. 

[Brn2bwild]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Agreed. I also, to back up a bit, do not think Dany would go crazy on Kings Landing. There is just no need for it. If yes, she took down 500 or so innocents killing Cersie, I am on board with that because Cersie has to be taken out. However, it is bad writing that Dany would do that.  She has NEVER shown such tendencies before. Always doing what she thought was necessary and NO MORE.  To have her just "lose it" for reasons that do not seem to justify it and further, for one one to try to take out Dragon (instead of Dany) is just plain bad writing fueled by sexism. And how convent there i no one around to bring Dany back from the dead. Guess women don't get second chances like Jon. 

Plus what was the point of Season 7? 

Let's just forget Dany's social goals of not only freeing the oppressed, but also of raising up women.  Instead, let's just have an all-male counsel, where I'm sure the first words will be Bronn making a penis joke.

[haje]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

We might be getting a Tyrion trial after all if Tyrion and Varys have a conversation in 8x04 about betrayal...although how he can betray the Starks at this point, I have no idea.

It seems kind of cruel to have Arya hook up with Gendry only to reject him, but I didn’t think before 8x02 aired that Arya would end up with Gendry in the books, so I guess Arya/Gendry is going to be a bit of fan service. To be fair, the writers and Maisie were careful not to say that Arya is currently in love with Gendry, only that she once was and that she had sex with him because she wanted to experience it before dying.

Eh, the Arya/Gendry stuff in Ep 4 seems to be the most promising in terms of it not ending up terribly. Of course, Arya rejects Gendry offering something more permanent. She's still getting her humanity back, she still has her list to finish and unless she manages to get some closure from that, I don't see her being ready for any kind of relationship as of yet. And there's still 2 episodes left for her to get that closure and to choose life instead of death. But then again this is D&D so who knows.

I'm still the most skeptical of the supposed Jaime betrayal especially because there are leaks contradicting themselves regarding him  but Jon killing Dany has been a consistent thing in these leaks and I'm almost positive it's definitely happening now. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by haje

[Advance35]

Quote

See , I think  she has always shown signs of this, My rewatch of season 2-4 this week confirms it. I know some view her crucifixion of slaver as just. i I dont see it that way, nor do I see the sackings she orders as ok even if the people involved were bad. I don't necessarily think what shes going to do means she is crazy, but that she is ruthless when pushed. And I know that war does this sort of thing to people. So to me its consistent with what GRRM has been saying and power and ambition.

Didn't she also have one of her Dragons burn a noble alive, as an example?  Even though she didn't know whether he was guilty or not?  This was while she was in Mereen I believe.

Not to mention that Noble she forced to become her betrothed.  For some reason I remember a scene where he was pretty clear he did NOT want to marry her (though this was the corner of the show that interested me the least so maybe I have some things wrong).

The People of Kings Landing aren't loyal to any Nobles.  They jeered Tyrion, they cheered during Cersei WoS, They didn't care when The High Septon and Queen Margaery were blown sky high.  They probably cheer all Noble v. Noble fighting on some level.

As a person of color,  I wouldn't automatically call D&D racist or any other label.  They are working off of the source material and horrible things have happened to ALL manner of people in this story.  Nobody is immune and as someone viewing the story unfold, nobody should be either.

[Stallion12]

6 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Seeing Missandei and Rhaegal die (and Brienne and Jaime have sex, ugh) is not so unbelievable.  Mad Queen Dany threatening to burn them all and being killed by Jon is what we're hoping is fake.

Pretty much, especially adding on bran as head of a council. I could buy John as head of the council because he decides there shouldn't be kings anymore.

[Callista]

Not sure what to make of this, but here's another leak on Westeros.org that says Jon kills Dany at the end of Ep 5, but that she gets resurrected in Ep 6, and that Cersei and Tyrion were framing her all along. It's the one in purple ink posted by CrypticWeirwood, #3102.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148752-season-8-news-spoilers-and-leaks/&page=156

[Smad]

3 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

This post is disturbing on so many levels

The show is disturbing on so many levels. Mainly with how much it doesn't make sense. I will NEVER believe the aftermath depicted on this show when Cersei blew up the Sept. It simply doesn't make any sense on a human level. And they seem to top it in the upcoming episodes if the leaks are true. So thanks to D&D depicting the people of KL the way they did, I don't care if they get torched or not. They, as the people, had the power (via sheer numbers) to rise up and stop Cersei and they did absolutely nothing. Cersei blew up the Vatikan and people have been starving for Seasons yet they don't take action to remove this person?

This doesn't reflect my view in real life. This is all thanks to D&D's love of all things Cersei which caused them to completely ignore realistic outcomes when it comes to Cersei's actions. This isn't like today's warfare of chemical, biological or atomic weapons or even just guns. It's a steel vs steel era so there is absolutely no excuse for the people of KL to be depicted that way.

[Spartan Girl]

2 minutes ago, Callista said:

Not sure what to make of this, but here's another leak on Westeros.org that says Jon kills Dany at the end of Ep 5, but that she gets resurrected in Ep 6, and that Cersei and Tyrion were framing her all along. It's the one in purple ink posted by CrypticWeirwood, #3102.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148752-season-8-news-spoilers-and-leaks/&page=156

Cersei framing Dany would be consistent with her "plans" for the dragon queen...it would at least have more punch than Euron just taking out a dragon.

Jesus, this is nuts.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[nikma]

23 minutes ago, ihavenoidea said:

We've seen absolutely nothing in prior seasons absent burning the Tarly's the would lead up to this imo

Then why all those Mad Queen theories existed for years? Director of 606 said that the inspiration for the last scene of that episode was Hitler's speech.

[BooBear]

Just now, nikma said:

Then why all those Mad Queen theories existed for years? Director of 606 said that the inspiration for the last scene of that episode was Hitler's speech.

Nothing on the show .. can't help it if the sexism is strong on the inter webs. 

[Brn2bwild]

6 minutes ago, Callista said:

Not sure what to make of this, but here's another leak on Westeros.org that says Jon kills Dany at the end of Ep 5, but that she gets resurrected in Ep 6, and that Cersei and Tyrion were framing her all along. It's the one in purple ink posted by CrypticWeirwood, #3102.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148752-season-8-news-spoilers-and-leaks/&page=156

Praying this is true.  It's crazy, but at least it doesn't destroy Dany's character.

[kellog010]

That makes more sense Cercei framing Dany with the wildfire and something I can buy Cercei doing. 

[nikma]

22 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

This post is disturbing on so many levels

 And she wanted to do that in S6 as well, so it's not true that this comes out of nowhere. Some people just convinced themselves that this won't happen.

Edited May 5, 2019 by nikma

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, haje said:

Eh, the Arya/Gendry stuff in Ep 4 seems to be the most promising in terms of it not ending up terribly. Of course, Arya rejects Gendry offering something more permanent. She's still getting her humanity back, she still has her list to finish and unless she manages to get some closure from that, I don't see her being ready for any kind of relationship as of yet. And there's still 2 episodes left for her to get that closure and to choose life instead of death.

One of those episodes is chaos in KL with Arya alone without Gendry, though, so I don't expect a lot of great emotional leaps forward on Arya's part.

Honestly, it almost seems like the back half of S8 will be devoted to sinking all the ships:

1. Theon/Sansa, Jorah/Dany: Jorah and Theon die in 8x03

2. Jaime/Brienne: have sex, Jaime presumably dies in 8x05

3. Gendry/Arya: Arya rejects Gendry in 8x04

4. Tyrion/Sansa: either the 8x03 scene was closure, or there's some sort of betrayal (he betrays her and the Starks as Friki said and gets put on trial, or she betrays him to take over as another potential leak claimed)

5. Grey Worm/Missandei: Missandei dies in 8x04

6. Sandor/Sansa: Sandor trundles off to KL in 8x04 and presumably dies there in 8x05 or 8x06 

7. Jon/Dany: regardless of whether or not the Jon kills Dany stuff is true, it's not looking good as of the end of 8x04 (especially since she urges Jon to keep his parentage secret because of his superior claim)

There was another mini-episode summary posted on /Freefolk whose authenticity I can't be certain of that claimed that Sandor and Sansa have a scene together where she talks about feeding Ramsay to his hounds, so SanSan shippers are going to get some closure, as well.

That same person also said that Arya turns Gendry down with "That's not me," which also sounds pretty definitive. 

Quote

Jon killing Dany has been a consistent thing in these leaks and I'm almost positive it's definitely happening now.

Well, fleaks breed fleaks. All of the fleaks prior to 8x03 stated that Winterfell would fall to the WWs, and that didn't happen.

[Miss Dee]

Arya always knew it wasn't in her to become a lord's wife. If she and Gendry were to sail west of Westeros on adventures, I think she'd be fine with shagging him while they're at it. But now it looks like he's responsible for Storm's End, and...that's not her.

[Spartan Girl]

Just now, Brn2bwild said:

Praying this is true.  It's crazy, but at least it doesn't destroy Dany's character.

So Jon kills Dany AND Tyrion's a traitor? This fucking show...

Maybe we are getting played by HBO? 

[BooBear]

5 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Cersei framing Dany would be consistent with her "plans" for the dragon queen...

Jesus, this is nuts.

Thank you... that sort of has the ring of truth to it. Phew!

[Umbelina]

It's the second post on that link above.

"Freefolk, if you want me to tell you how my source knows any of this, no. HBO had everything recorded and done with E6 under such a lockdown that giving you pretty much any more information about what role my source had in the production narrows down who they are to an uncomfortable degree.

Literally EVERYTHING done with E6 was in-house animation teams, in-house sound teams, etc. More to the point they didn't give anyone the whole story. VFX teams worked without sound; sound team members each got only a few scenes. When a large number of extras were around, at times, very important lines were only lip-synced.

Even through all those security measures, though, they couldn't get everything, and enough spread around that I was able to gather enough info to tell you this without incriminating my source directly.

And boy, you all are being fucked with hard. HBO's social media teams must be sitting back and laughing their asses off at you. Do you really think Emilia Clarke would invite fans to watch with her if it wasn't a Daenerys-positive episode? Do you really think HBO and GRRM wouldn't be aware of the shitstorm that would be created by their most powerful heroic character turning evil in the last few episodes? Do you really think Emilia hasn't known her character arc's ending well before this last season? Maybe she's not entirely happy with the ending or not (I can tell you I don't know her and she's not my source, just to save you some time) but it didn't come as a big surprise to her.

Kneelers, the fucking lot of you. Kneelers before HBO's security measures. You've all been worked into a blind panic and I'm laughing my ass off, along with all the HBO interns, because nobody has told you the whole story, because none of the people who have leaked so far have known the whole story.

So let me detail what I know:

- Jon kills Daenerys. This totally happens. It's the last scene of E5. Jon shows up and looks over the destruction and asks Tyrion of Daenerys really did this, and Tyrion says yes. Jon decides Dany has gone fully mad, and goes in and kills her.

- Sansa and Bran come down from Winterfell. Once down there Bran gets brought into Tyrion's presence and springs his final trap; Daenerys had never turned evil or mad, and Tyrion knew it. He'd conspired with Cersei all along. I'm fairly certain we get to see Bran watching Tyrion and Cersei's conversation from end of last season where the deal is worked out.

- Jon is pretty fucking despondent but Bran says something to him that makes Jon realize Dany can be brought back, and Jon sets off to find her body after placing Davos in charge.

- Final scene is mostly like Friki said; Tyrion on trial in the Dragonpit, interspersed with scenes of Jon finding Dany's body and somehow bringing her back. I don't know if Jon dies doing it (kiss of life) or if he finds a way to bring her back without killing himself, but he succeeds.

The way Episode 5 is designed is for it to be unclear even to the viewer if Dany's really turned Full Mad Queen in her pursuit of revenge, but basically, Cersei and Tyrion's plan was to provoke Dany into attacking so that they could spring their frame job. Cersei would then escape through the secret tunnels and rally the Seven Kingdoms to oppose Daenerys, leaving her as the sole undisputed ruler, with Tyrion on her side.

Emilia's statement that Episode 5 is bonkers-crazy is her way of hinting that even though it isn't spelled out until E6, clever and observant viewers will be able to see parts of the framejob earlier. Fires spreading faster than they should, maybe a tint of green to them, that sort of thing. That's why you should watch it on the biggest screen imaginable. Also if you know anything about Emilia's costume crew you know that basically what color she's wearing and how she's dressed is a huge hint as to her character; she's still wearing white.

Cersei's goal was never to make Dany go evil, just to get her to attack, so she could frame her. Why else do you think she'd bundle innocents into the Red Keep, then so blatantly provoke Dany by having Missandei executed? They're not a human shield; they're a sacrifice. Cersei tries to escape as planned but isn't counting on whoever kills her (I don't know for certain, there were fake scenes, but I'm fairly sure it's either Jaime or Arya.)

That's pretty much all I've got that I'm willing to give you. Take me on faith if you want, or not. Doesn't matter to me."

Me now:

I like the idea of Cersei's plan to set Dany up, that does sound like her.  The rest?  Who knows, I like the first spoilers more.

[haje]

5 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Arya always knew it wasn't in her to become a lord's wife. If she and Gendry were to sail west of Westeros on adventures, I think she'd be fine with shagging him while they're at it. But now it looks like he's responsible for Storm's End, and...that's not her.

True. It'll be sad for the shippers but it's totally consistent for her character. I would be sad if we end the season with her going off alone though (which is what I think one leak said) because what I want for Arya is for her to make connections again and reconnect with her humanity for a little bit.  

Edited May 5, 2019 by haje

[nikma]

19 minutes ago, BooBear said:

 She has NEVER shown such tendencies before.

What? She wanted to burn Yunkai and Astapor. She said in S5 that Meereen could return to dirt.  In S2 she said (in show only speech) that she will burn armies ans cities.

[BooBear]

2 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

That makes more sense Cercei framing Dany with the wildfire and something I can buy Cercei doing. 

I can see that. There was another leak saying that Dany attacks KL and accidentally sets off the wildfire... leading to Jon's horror at the result. But this one makes more sense. It also makes sense that Cersei would get and kill Missandei in the way she did, to goad her into attacking. 

1 minute ago, nikma said:

What? She wanted to burn Yunkai and Astapor. She said in S5 that Meereen could return to dirt.  In S2 she said (in show only speech) that she will burn armies ans cities.

But she didn't do it -- people talk shit when they are mad. 

[JennyMominFL]

1 minute ago, BooBear said:

I can see that. There was another leak saying that Dany attacks KL and accidentally sets off the wildfire... leading to Jon's horror at the result. But this one makes more sense. It also makes sense that Cersei would get and kill Missandei in the way she did, to goad her into attacking. 

But she didn't do it -- people talk shit when they are mad. 

I dont threaten massacres or genocide when I am mad

[BadAssRobinArryn]

Not that I'm necessarily believing the new spoiler regarding tyrion and Cersei. But wasn't there a Quote by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau many months ago, that it would end like in a mystery novel. Or am I completely misremembering everything? No matter what one thinks about Dany attacks KL and Jon kills her. There's hardly a mystery involved in this.

And one of the Songs had the verse "We can bring her back" in it, after all.

[Oscirus]

13 minutes ago, Callista said:

Not sure what to make of this, but here's another leak on Westeros.org that says Jon kills Dany at the end of Ep 5, but that she gets resurrected in Ep 6, and that Cersei and Tyrion were framing her all along. It's the one in purple ink posted by CrypticWeirwood, #3102.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148752-season-8-news-spoilers-and-leaks/&page=156

Yea that fake spoilers stupid. Cute but stupid.  Not only do you have the same buildup problems as the first story, but you also now have a major character deviation for no reason.

[nikma]

3 minutes ago, BooBear said:

But she didn't do it -- people talk shit when they are mad. 

And now she will. Because there will be no one to stop her this time. 

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Yea that fake spoilers stupid. Cute but stupid.  Not only do you have the same buildup problems as the first story, but you also now have a major character deviation for no reason.

Also, Jon somehow resurrecting Dany? Please.

[Stallion12]

17 minutes ago, Callista said:

Not sure what to make of this, but here's another leak on Westeros.org that says Jon kills Dany at the end of Ep 5, but that she gets resurrected in Ep 6, and that Cersei and Tyrion were framing her all along. It's the one in purple ink posted by CrypticWeirwood, #3102.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148752-season-8-news-spoilers-and-leaks/&page=156

I'm rooting for that ending, still not great, but goes along with the weird comments I saw.

[JennyMominFL]

1 minute ago, nikma said:

And now she will. Because there will be no one to stop her this time. 

She is also this close to her ultimate goal and may be willing to do anything to achieve it. She wouldnt be the first human being to do horrible things for power.

[Chaser]

I can believe there is stuff that hasn’t been spoiled but those seem a bit extra. 

[Spartan Girl]

You know what? I think I'm just going to stay off this thread for the next two weeks. My mind is spinning and I just need a break from all these stupid leaks. I'm going to just see how it all plays out before I start cursing the writers.

See you at the finish line, everyone!

[BooBear]

6 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

I dont threaten massacres or genocide when I am mad

You're beautiful. But some of us do. Doesn't mean we do it. 

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

You know what? I think I'm just going to stay off this thread for the next two weeks. My mind is spinning and I just need a break from all these stupid leaks. I'm going to just see how it all plays out before I start cursing the writers.

See you at the finish line, everyone!

I think the same. 

[nikma]

2 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

She is also this close to her ultimate goal and may be willing to do anything to achieve it. She wouldnt be the first human being to do horrible things for power.

It makes complete sense for her to burn KL at this point. Her fans are just in denial. 

[JennyMominFL]

This has always been a show about the dark night of the human soul. Its always shown that “good” people are capable of doing great evil.  We may not like that, but it truly is human nature. GRRM has never shirked from showing the dark side of humanity so I certainly expect it now

[nikma]

Dany failing at the end because she became corrupted by power is like Frodo's and Thorin's stories in LOTR and Hobbit. 

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Yes, I do because GRRM has made it clear that he is capable of writing characters who can do anything under any circumstances. At this stage, I put absolutely nothing past him. I really do think this is why he has been unable to finish the books. 

I've said before he has a pretty sick mind on some of the things he writes.