Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[glowbug]

I heard “he” the two times I watched it before this discussion but when I listen back it sounds like it could be either. If the CC says “you” it’s most likely “you” but CC has been wrong before too. 

[bubble sparkly]

I listened to the promo again with the volume blasted on high and I still hear "he".

[GrailKing]

[GrailKing]

With Salt !

https://imgur.com/a/g4Lhz9f

Edited April 20, 2019 by GrailKing

[BadAssRobinArryn]

39 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I don't really believe this leaker, though five out of the six characters are a good guess given all spoilers we know. The one I have major doubts about is Gendry. And I do think we will lose Bronn, so that they don't have to find another contrived way for him not to be in the same scene as Cersei. And given that Winterfell is burning I also expect at least one of the civilians inside the castle to die.

With that being said, the biggest Information is Rhaegal being injured. if this turns out to be true, than the leaker probably had at least some genuine information. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[whoknowswho]

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I listened to the promo again with the volume blasted on high and I still hear "he".

I listened without captions and I plainly heard . “ He never should have trusted Cersei.” Closed captions are often wrongly worded, being from hearing people who all hear differently. I am always catching problems on youtube closed caps.

Edited April 20, 2019 by whoknowswho
Should finish my wee thought.

[bubble sparkly]

According to Freefolk, Friki has made some comments suggesting that leaker with the ep 3 info is bogus.  Namely, that Friki has claimed Gendry is not going to become a wight in ep 3 because he has a much bigger purpose, being to forge a weapon to help defeat the NK.

[glowbug]

I listened to the episode 2 preview again on another device with better speakers and I hear "he" as well. I think it might be a CC error (the closed captions I used were from HBO's site), but we won't know for sure until we hear the conversation and know the context. I just can't imagine why Dany would tell Sansa she shouldn't have trusted Cersei when Sansa clearly doesn't trust her. 

[bubble sparkly]

16 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I just can't imagine why Dany would tell Sansa she shouldn't have trusted Cersei when Sansa clearly doesn't trust her. 

Agreed.  Also, I don't get the feeling Sansa and Jon have shared every single detail of their lives from s1 to s5 with each other, so I doubt Jon himself would have even been able to pass on details of when Sansa did trust Cersei in s1 for Dany to bring up in a conversation.  Like, Sansa and Jon clearly had an offscreen conversation in s6 about recent big ticket items such as Ramsay and the whole "return from the dead" stuff.  But I don't get the vibe that Jon told Sansa about Ygritte and all his NW adventures from the first few seasons, and I doubt Sansa went into detail about her s1 foolishness r.e. Joffrey and Cersei etc.  Jon isn't exactly a big sharer at the best of times, and Sansa still doesn't even completely trust Jon.

[SimoneS]

Okay, I listened again. Now I am hearing "he." I give up on this one.

Reddit removed the fleak. Which characters were predicted to die in episode 3? 

Edited April 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

According to Freefolk, Friki has made some comments suggesting that leaker with the ep 3 info is bogus.  Namely, that Friki has claimed Gendry is not going to become a wight in ep 3 because he has a much bigger purpose, being to forge a weapon to help defeat the NK.

Friki says a lot of things that are just speculation, though, and often fails to clarify which of his tidbits are speculation, and that’s probably one of them. Friki hasn’t responded to this particular leak/fleak. He did say that Joe Dempsie didn’t film that 8x06 scene in Seville. If Gendry indeed dies at Winterfell, then that might explain why.

I can easily believe Gendry dies at Winterfell. They’re laying on it thick with Gendrya even though she’s not likely to end up with him in the books. He’s a composite character who’s so far off his book character’s arc that he’s not going to be able to get to his book character endgame. And cool, badass Arya was crying and shaking like a leaf at Winterfell for a reason. Not to mention Arya telling Gendry that she looks forward to seeing “this” face of death takes on a particularly grim cast if she ends up looking into Gendry’s wightified dead face.

[ElizaD]

After the episode first aired, all those things made me feel that Arya would end up fighting wightified Gendry next to the forge. But now that sunny Joe interview is hard for me to try to explain without Gendry surviving and going south in a new costume.

My current predictions: totally dead - Jorah, Pod and Theon, possibly - Alys Karstark, I hope not but I have a bad feeling about this - Gilly and Tormund, if she shows up now and not in KL - Melisandre, their story's basically finished - Edd and Beric.

[Eyes High]

Cigixx at Freefolk spotted that Theon is present at the war council scene (standing next to Sam) but was cropped out of the 8x02 still, matching the armour sleeve in the still to Theon’s costume in the EW photoshoot.

[SimoneS]

If Theon is in Winterfell already, then the GC can be there as well. Maybe they prepare for the NK and the GC attack instead.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Reddit removed the fleak. Which characters were predicted to die in episode 3? 

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I thought Rupert Vansittart was spotted in Seville (or on the returning flight from Seville at the Stansted airport), but this info states that Lord Royce dies. If Joe Dempsie filmed something for the show in Seville, it can only have been for 8x06. Friki’s source said nothing about Lord Royce in Tyrion’s trial scene and was emphatic that Joe Dempsie didn’t film that scene, either (and said that nothing was filmed in Seville apart from Tyrion’s trial). However, I think Joe filmed his BTS interviews in Seville in full costume. On the other hand, Gendry’s death in 8x03 makes a lot of sense to me for the reasons I’ve already stated.

...So who knows? It is worth pointing out that if Friki was getting his episode spoilers every week at the same time relative to the episodes airing, then given that he got his 8x01 spoilers about 4 weeks before the episode aired, then by that token he should already know the finale spoilers, even if he says he won’t say anything about S8, and he hasn’t retracted his Tyrion trial and execution leaks. I think at this point it’s a done deal. 

Seems like a shitty end for the character, especially with him falling so far as to be lectured by Sansa for his stupidity, and frankly I do not understand why Peter Dinklage would openly hint at Tyrion’s death in interviews unless it was some weird attempt at damage control, but that’s that.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

WRG to audio between D & S, I played it again with my wife; normal volume comfortable seating distance we bout hear "you" I raise it louder Sansa says "You " Danny "Ya" wife moves closer and she then can hear "He ", as I also mentioned previously, maybe they shifted the CC from Danny just enough we think she's talking to Sansa, when it's to Tyrion just before she walks off. Sounds like 2 audio tracks .

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

...So who knows? It is worth pointing out that if Friki was getting his episode spoilers every week at the same time relative to the episodes airing, then given that he got his 8x01 spoilers about 4 weeks before the episode aired, then by that token he should already know the finale spoilers, even if he says he won’t say anything about S8, and he hasn’t retracted his Tyrion trial and execution leaks. I think at this point it’s a done deal. 

Is Friki still getting spoilers though? Maybe HBO has cut off his source of info.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I think this leak has a ring of believable with Rhaegal getting injured. It would explain how the NK is able to hold his own and take WF. I still don't understand how the survivors are able to escape alive. How do they get Bran, Sam, Gilly, and the baby out of there? The scene between Jorah and Lyanna sounds credible. 

Thanks for posting, @GrailKing.

Edited April 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I think this leak has a ring of believable with Rhaegal getting injured. It would explain how the NK is able to hold his own and take WF. I still don't understand how the survivors are able to escape alive. How do they get Bran, Sam, Gilly, and the baby out of there? The scene between Jorah and Lyanna is sound credible. 

Thanks for posting, @GrailKing.

You're welcome.

WRG to survivors, we know Gilly and baby Sam are in the Crypts, so that's my guess.

WRG to Gendry and LB, maybe we already seen it in ep.1

Some how I get a Ned, Reed, Dayne vibe, between NK, Jon and Arya.

[GrailKing]

[Spartan Girl]

45 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Seems like a shitty end for the character, especially with him falling so far as to be lectured by Sansa for his stupidity, and frankly I do not understand why Peter Dinklage would openly hint at Tyrion’s death in interviews unless it was some weird attempt at damage control, but that’s that.

Guess we are all going to need some drinks...

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Guess we are all going to need some drinks...

If this is Tyrion’s end, I’m glad I got as much warning as possible. No wonder Benioff has said that he is planning on being drunk and as far away from the Internet as possible when the finale airs...although if S8 drops hints throughout, maybe it won’t come as much of a surprise by the end.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

16 hours ago, GraceK said:

but Dany and Sansa talking about the past. Which means it could be a bonding moment.

Yeah. I think that's it. Sansa will tell how much she liked Cersei in S1. 

[nikma]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Seems like a shitty end for the character,

Didn't you say couple of days ago that you would prefer Tyrion being traitor to just being stupid?

And I don't think Friki has leaks for E6 yet. 

[nikma]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

then by that token he should already know the finale spoilers, even if he says he won’t say anything about S8, and he hasn’t retracted his Tyrion trial and execution leaks. 

I mean, Friki can't do this now, even if his leaks about Tyrion's death were wrong, because that would spoil that Tyrion lives and HBO already said that they won't tolerate his spoilers any more. 

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, nikma said:

Didn't you say couple of days ago that you would prefer Tyrion being traitor to just being stupid?

And I don't think Friki has leaks for E6 yet. 

Yes, but that in no way means that Friki’s leaks are any less shitty to me. If I have to eat dog shit, I’d prefer to eat it warm than cold, but I’d happily forgo the dog shit eating altogether.

He got his 8x01 leaks close to four weeks from the premiere. He should have the 8x06 leaks already...And really, for all the punishments HBO undoubtedly threatened him with, I don’t think they can top the ultimate punishment of Friki receiving the holy grail of leaks, complete 8x06 spoilers, and being unable to breathe a word about it to anyone.

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

I mean, Friki can't do this now, even if his leaks about Tyrion's death were wrong, because that would spoil that Tyrion lives and HBO already said that they won't tolerate his spoilers any more. 

Sure, but if he’s tweeting this week about how we’ll see Ghost soon and how Gendry can’t die yet, it makes me wonder how seriously he takes that. 

[nikma]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Sure, but if he’s tweeting this week about how we’ll see Ghost soon and how Gendry can’t die yet, it makes me wonder how seriously he takes that. 

Yeah, but Tyrion's death is much much bigger plot moment

I'm sure HBO will soon have reaction to those tweets as well. 

And tbh I find both Friki and BSB really annoying, so I'm happy that one of them will be wrong. lol

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

He got his 8x01 leaks close to four weeks from the premiere. He should have the 8x06 leaks already...

True, if they have the same schedule. But I think they will wait for the latest possible moment to send the last episode for translation. 

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yes, but that in no way means that Friki’s leaks are any less shitty to me

Everything Friki said about E1 was true, but it was much better than his descriptions.

[SimoneS]

Despite thinking that Peter has been hinting at Tyrion's death and Friki's spoilers, I am still not convinced that Tyrion is dying so I am chilling until confirmed.

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

How do they get Bran, Sam, Gilly, and the baby out of there? The scene between Jorah and Lyanna sounds credible. 

Oh no, they've got a five minute head start!  No point in chasing them now!

In all seriousness, though, is there a convenient river near Winterfell?  We know wights can't swim so if they have some waiting boats they can get away in those as long as the NK and Viserion aren't around.

[YaddaYadda]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

In all seriousness, though, is there a convenient river near Winterfell?  We know wights can't swim so if they have some waiting boats they can get away in those as long as the NK and Viserion aren't around.

I think there's a good chance the crypts are warded and I think the tunnels there will lead them far enough from Winterfell that it will help their escape.

Honestly, whatever it is will be contrived.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think there's a good chance the crypts are warded and I think the tunnels there will lead them far enough from Winterfell that it will help their escape.

Honestly, whatever it is will be contrived.

How is it contrived, if the author himself gave plenty of hints and foreshadowing, not to mention the new opening. ?

[GrailKing]

[Eyes High]

8 hours ago, nikma said:

And tbh I find both Friki and BSB really annoying, so I'm happy that one of them will be wrong. lol

Ha! I like you. I find them annoying, too. I can’t deny a certain satisfaction at Friki getting his comeuppance. That said, I do think it’s BSB and not Friki who’s the fleaker, but they’ll probably deny it until the last possible moment and ride their fleaks all the way down like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove.

A depressing possibility raised by a Freefolk member for the big cast/crew push on Sansa’s awesomeness going into S8 is that the other female leaders (Dany and Cersei) are going to have their power shredded by the end of the show, and the emphasis on Sansa’s amaaaaaaazing transformation is intended to distract from whatever’s going to happen to Cersei and Dany.  

...While it is always very dangerous to read anything into cast interviews, Gwendoline Christie has in the past always hyped GOT for its great female characters and she seemed particularly upset with the ending, describing it as “devastating,” saying some things are “truly not” set right at the end. Could just be Jaime getting a traumatic end or Tyrion getting an ambiguously raw deal, but maybe a lot of these powerful female characters get some humiliating endings.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

44 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

A depressing possibility raised by a Freefolk member for the big cast/crew push on Sansa’s awesomeness going into S8 is that the other female leaders (Dany and Cersei) are going to have their power shredded by the end of the show, and the emphasis on Sansa’s amaaaaaaazing transformation is intended to distract from whatever’s going to happen to Cersei and Dany.  

...While it is always very dangerous to read anything into cast interviews, Gwendoline Christie has in the past always hyped GOT for its great female characters and she seemed particularly upset with the ending, describing it as “devastating,” saying some things are “truly not” set right at the end. Could just be Jaime getting a traumatic end or Tyrion getting an ambiguously raw deal, but maybe a lot of these powerful female characters get some humiliating endings.

I think basically everybody has been assuming that Cersei would die ignobly, so I don't think that would especially factor into how castmembers perceived the ending.

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

How is it contrived, if the author himself gave plenty of hints and foreshadowing, not to mention the new opening. ?

It would be contrived in the context of the show.

However, spoilers that focus on the centrality of the Winterfell crypts are one of my biggest telltale signs for probable fakes.  Even setting aside the implausiblity of huge numbers of people escaping the Night King through underground tunnels (and we know that Team Good Guys still has an army by 806), if the tunnels were going to be a big part of the show there would have been some setup for that by now in the recent seasons.  It's not like characters haven't spent a lot of time down in the crypts where this could have been brought up.

[nikma]

They did mention secret passages in the past seasons.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

And they don't necessarily need all to escape through the crypts. Just the ones, who are inside the castle, when it's burning. The ones outside could for example escape, if the AotD are hold up for a while, either by Dragonfire or by Melisandre. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[Nightingale]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

A depressing possibility raised by a Freefolk member for the big cast/crew push on Sansa’s awesomeness going into S8 is that the other female leaders (Dany and Cersei) are going to have their power shredded by the end of the show, and the emphasis on Sansa’s amaaaaaaazing transformation is intended to distract from whatever’s going to happen to Cersei and Dany.  

Whoever that person is, I agree. I've been wondering for some time why every single member of the cast and crew has hyped Sansa as if she's the only female character in season 8 and that's probably the answer. Out of all the ladies, Sansa will be the only one with a decent and powerful ending, while the rest get punished for being female characters who dared seek and enjoy power.

With that in mind, I think I've figured out the rest of the season and the ending : Dany will keep being portrayed as the devil. In tonight's episode she'll probably try to put fan favorite Jaime to death while compassionate queen Sansa forgives him for all of his crimes and offers him food and clothing. All of Jon's friends and family will push him to go for the throne and betray Dany and Jon will do what he does best : remain passive and let things happen around him while looking sad and confused. At some point in episode 5, Dany will drop dead from all of her evilness and Jon will use her armies and dragon(s) to defeat Cersei and become the hero Westeros needed. And then he'll brood on the throne. The end.

I've seen this ending coming for the longest time but for some reason all of the cast interviews had me fooled that the ending would be "unexpected". I feel really stupid right now for ever believing them.

[John Potts]

Team Living have to win the Battle for Winterfell, unless the series ends with victory for the Night King - there are just too many main characters there. To have Winterfell fall and then say, "Although 99% of those at Winterfell died and are now zombies, miraculously 50% of the main characters escaped through the tunnels!" (well, Danny and Jon could escape on dragonback) would be terrible writing*. If Jon/Danny lose, then the ultimate winners of the Games of Thrones would either be Euron or Cersei (or the Night King) which could scarcely be called "bittersweet". In Lord of the Rings terms, Winterfell would be the Battle of Minas Tirith - not the end, but a major victory.

And in mythological terms, it makes sense if the Lord of Winter falls at Winterfell (not necessarily permanently). It doesn't even need to be the Night King himself that falls - he could leave one of the other seven(?) White Walkers** in charge of the assault on Winterfell while he heads onward across Westeros to (eventually) his Kings Landing. 

* Though I guess terrible writing can't be ruled out

** Or maybe five - there being Seven White Walkers would be thematically appropriate and we've seen Sam & Jon kill one each

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

Whoever that person is, I agree. I've been wondering for some time why every single member of the cast and crew has hyped Sansa as if she's the only female character in season 8 and that's probably the answer. Out of all the ladies, Sansa will be the only one with a decent and powerful ending, while the rest get punished for being female characters who dared seek and enjoy power.

There's still Arya? Arguably GRRM's lead female character in the books. She often gets left out of these discussions because the show has cut down her importance to give Sansa something to do, but I can see her start to play a central role this season. While Sansa is busy creating conflict and dissension once again,  Arya is reconnecting with her old flame, bonding with her brother and slowly becoming her old self.

As for Dany and Cersei - I think the show has made it clear that they are character foils. Jon has pointed this out, as have other characters. Emilia Clarke, in her interviews, has talked about how Dany learns more about power and what it takes to wield it and sees what has happened to Cersei and how she has lost everything. I cannot see them both having the same ending.

Sansa wants power as well. She too wants to rule. She cares more about Northern independence than the AOTD marching on her home. The show has still not demonstrated why she would be a good ruler/leader. Has any of our POV characters like Missandei or Tyrion or Davos or Brienne or Varys or Jon praised Sansa as a good leader so far?  Characters have requisite dialogue where they have to call Sansa 'smart' every now and then to establish that fact, but Sansa has been set in opposition to Jon right from season 6 onward.

As for all the hyping every cast/crew member is doing of Sansa and Sophie Turner, well, there could be another reason for that - I would think that too much hyping does not usually bode well for a character.

Edited April 21, 2019 by anamika

[bubble sparkly]

I think another possible explanation for this Sansa stuff is that she's at a narrative dead end in s8, and has been since the end of s6.  I think I have said this before, but if Sansa's endgame is LOW, she effectively reached her endgame 2 seasons ago.  Even in s7, one of the main reasons both Sansa and Arya acted so stupidly is that they had to drag out the Littlefinger stuff until the finale, when Sansa already knew he was a devious snake in ep 1 and could have executed him for the Boltons and Lysa stuff then.

It appears that a lot of the other main characters are going to experience some kind of personal crisis, reflection and growth in s8, however it doesn't seem like Sansa has anywhere left to go.  Jon obviously has his parentage stuff to deal with, along with the associated Dany drama.  Dany has the Jon stuff which will likely lead to reflections about her not being the last Targ and heir to the throne.  Unfortunately, we will probably get some sexist bullshit about Dany deciding she's been too ruthless or something (and none of the male characters will be required to have a similar revelation).

Arya still has her list and a possible romance with Gendry.  She may be required to have a similar "violence is not okay" realisation like Dany.  Jaime will have to confront his past actions r.e. Bran and presumably has a final confrontation with Cersei.  And Cersei will likely meet a sticky end etc.

Whereas with Sansa, so far in s8 she's challenged Jon, distrusted Dany and distrusted Cersei.  None of this is new territory, and is basically a variation on everything she's said in the past 2 seasons.  The most popular speculations for other things Sansa will do in s8 are that she might lead the women and children during the battle (a Blackwater callback) and play a role in discovering Tyrion's alleged betrayal.  Again, this is nothing new, the show has been trying to tell us that Sansa is a capable leader and political mastermind since s6.

So I think the reason the cast are free to say Sansa is a badass leader and political genius is because there is absolutely nothing spoilery about that, since that has been the show's position on Sansa since s6.  Whereas, with Dany most things she is involved with this season seem to be spoilery.  D&D are clearly playing up the Mad Queen angle in at least the first few eps with Sam leading the charge, and we still have the Jon parentage reveal and heir to the throne drama that may not be fully resolved until ep 4. I am slightly comforted by the fact that D&D didn't appear to berate Dany in the Inside the Episode stuff and say she was in the wrong, because they haven't had any problem doing that before.

[SimoneS]

Those better be some long crypts/tunnels with horses waiting out outside. Or maybe the noncombatants just get scooped up by Jon and Dany's remaining armies as they head south. Grey Worm wouldn't just leave Missandei behind. He would have a contingency plan for them to find each other if the battle doesn't go well. Melisandre, the other red priestesses/priests, and maybe the Volantis army arriving and holding off the NK will definitely give Jon and Dany's remaining armies and noncombatants the opportunity to retreat south. Militarily, it never made any sense to make a stand at Winterfell anyway.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

Team Living have to win the Battle for Winterfell, unless the series ends with victory for the Night King - there are just too many main characters there. To have Winterfell fall and then say, "Although 99% of those at Winterfell died and are now zombies, miraculously 50% of the main characters escaped through the tunnels!" (well, Danny and Jon could escape on dragonback) would be terrible writing*. 

Winterfell could fall with a big part of the AotD inside. Team good guy could sacrifice Winterfell by luring the Wights inside and burning it down. It could be a last resort because they were losing. That could mean that they have to retreat south because Winterfell is gone, but that the NK has to go back North as well for a short time because big parts of his army are gone.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, John Potts said:

Team Living have to win the Battle for Winterfell, unless the series ends with victory for the Night King - there are just too many main characters there. To have Winterfell fall and then say, "Although 99% of those at Winterfell died and are now zombies, miraculously 50% of the main characters escaped through the tunnels!" (well, Danny and Jon could escape on dragonback) would be terrible writing*. If Jon/Danny lose, then the ultimate winners of the Games of Thrones would either be Euron or Cersei (or the Night King) which could scarcely be called "bittersweet". In Lord of the Rings terms, Winterfell would be the Battle of Minas Tirith - not the end, but a major

It is possible that Dany and Jon "defeat" the NK's wights at Winterfell, but he, Viserion, and the White Walkers escape and head south. We also know from the leaked photos/video that Winterfell is either fully or partially burnt in the battle so the noncombatants won't be able to stay there no matter who wins. 

[John Potts]

20 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is possible that Dany and Jon "defeat" the NK's wights at Winterfell, but he, Viserion, and the White Walkers escape and head south.

That was my thinking too - though I'd guess Viserion dies, along with one of Drogon or Rhaegal (if it's Rhaegal - particularly if Jon's riding him at the time - that would probably suggest Jon ultimately sits on the throne). For it to count as a win - even a Pyrrhic one - Team Living has to do some significant damage to Team Undead, and short of taking out the Night King himself (unlikely - we've been told that's an instant win, at least against the White Walkers) Viserion is the only named character we have on Team Undead. And the death of dragons would echo the general theme of the magical creatures (giants, Children of the Forest) dying out.

I also think Danny/Jon have to win as most of her army is IN Winterfell (presumably she left a garrison on Dragonstone). Unless the rest of the Season is Cersei (or Euron) v Team Undead, Danny/Jon have to emerge with some forces to fight with to stay in the game.

[Wouter]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 Militarily, it never made any sense to make a stand at Winterfell anyway.

Since when doesn’t it make sense to make a stand at a strong castle? Winterfell has strong walls (two of em, even), big food stores and the occupants are protected from the cold. Moat Cailin is a ruin, and it would mean abandoning the entire north.

[raven]

MOD NOTE:

DO NOT discuss leaked episodes.  Posts have been removed.  Any further posts about leaked episodes will also be removed and the poster will be warned.

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, Wouter said:

Since when doesn’t it make sense to make a stand at a strong castle? Winterfell has strong walls (two of em, even), big food stores and the occupants are protected from the cold. Moat Cailin is a ruin, and it would mean abandoning the entire north.

One issue is that the Dothraki are not defensive specialists - their whole approach is to charge the enemy and try to scare them.  They don't even wear armor so if they try this against the wights they'll make it part way through their lines, get surrounded, and be slaughtered.  If they stay inside Winterfell then they're useless.  The Unsullied should be the ones fighting the wights while the Dothraki are saved for Cersei's forces.

[Raachel2008]

On 4/20/2019 at 3:39 PM, nikma said:

And tbh I find both Friki and BSB really annoying, so I'm happy that one of them will be wrong. 

I love spoilers as much as the next person, but Friki annoys the hell out of me, always had. It’s a mix of sense of entitlement and personality cult, you know what I mean?

And, as far as spoilers and speculations go...

BoW: Beric, Gendry, Eddie, Jorah, Pod, Greyworm, Theon, and Tormund or Brienne. YET, it lacks a major character, doesn’t it? It has to be a Stark, there is no way all four Starks - yes I’m putting Jon in the Stark column - survive.

Someone asked it there’s a river near WF, I don’t remember if there was one in the books, but Sansa and Theon walked right next one when they ran  from Ramsay trying to reach the Wall. Maybe the same river runs South. Also they mentioned more than once that the cripts have some tunnels to the outside so, yes, I can see how a lot of characters who one would think have very little chance of surviving, like Gilly, Little Sam, and even Lyanna Mormont, will not die.

As for Bronn, I believe he saves Tyrion’s life, which will make people think Cersei sent him to save her brother - another proof of Tyrion’s traison.

Assuming the spoilers about Tyrion’s are true, I can envision a scenario where he realizes that for Jon or Dany to rule - and I think it is one or another - there shall be no more Lannisters (like there shouldn’t have more Targaryens) and there shall be no doubts that the king or queen will not tolerate anyone who tries to disrupt “peace”. So, I can see Tyrion lying and confessing things he didn’t to make sure the ruler he chose - again, it’s either Jon or Dany - will reign. Kinda of the opposite of his trial when Joffrey died. It would be a bittersweet ending for the character, devastating for the fans and a George thing to do.

ETA: I’m on team “Jamie kills Cersei and dies with her”. They were born together, they will die together. Maybe she hurts him fatally and then he kills her. Think Marcus Aurelius and Cleopatra, something like that.

ETA1: Sansa re: if she survives, and if Jon or Daenerys (or both) ends ruling, I can see D&D making her Hand.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Raachel2008

[dirtypop90]

In the preview, Dany says the dead are already here?  Is she talking about the crypts?!  Will all the women and children die down there?!!! I will not be able to handle it!