Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

1 hour ago, ElizaD said:

IMO Alfie is one of the show's best actors; I've felt that way ever since season 2 when he took a storyline that did nothing for me in the book and made it my favorite. The Theon/Jon talk is one of my all-time favorite GOT scenes, so the Theon/Bran speculation makes me very happy. I absolutely believe that Theon feels genuine remorse for what he chose to do and that he wants to help those  who've suffered because of him. Of the characters who seem very likely to die, I expect Theon will have the ending that I'll find the most emotional.

TA. Alfie Allen's performance has been woefully overlooked by award-givers throughout. I'm expecting Theon to sacrifice himself heroically to bring his redemption arc full circle.

[anamika]

Quote

The actor who plays Davos Seaworth gave new details about the plot in the last season of Game of Thrones.

Liam Cunningham: "Sansa will not be delighted with Daenerys and distrusts Jon"

The actor who plays Davos Seaworth , also known as the Onion Knight, explained that the series ' all going to fight the enemy " and in the battle against the army of the White Walkers " the Death means losing everything. "

However, he said that the problems will not arise only against the dead, since "Sansa will not be delighted with Daenerys and distrusts Jon (...) They have this small army against these magical people who are incredibly difficult to kill " .

http://www.adnradio.cl/noticias/sociedad/liam-cunningham-sansa-no-estara-encantada-con-daenerys-y-desconfia-de-jon/20190318/nota/3878444.aspx

I guess we are going to see a repeat of Sansa's season 6/7 plot for the first two episodes next season. 

Meanwhile Ser Friendzone has finally made his peace with Dany.

Quote

“I don’t know what people perceive,” actor Iain Glen tells EW. “But in my mind, there was a significant shift when he lost her love and made this journey to try and win it back; once he won her favor again and was in her orbit. Of course, there has always been a profound love there but him wanting a reciprocal physical love has gone and he was just happy to be with her.”

As for Jon Snow, who he got to know a bit on their trek beyond The Wall in season 7. Snow even offered to give Mormont back his father’s sword Longclaw, which he declined.

“He believes in Jon Snow like a lot of people do and has gotten to know him in their travels together last season,” Glen says. “He thinks he’s a good match with Daenerys best interests in mind. It’s a complicated emotion, but I think he feels that they would be a good unification and he’s basically supportive.”

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/18/game-of-thrones-ser-jorah-jon-snow/

And now that he has finally made his peace, time for Jorah to die sacrificing himself for Dany - most probably at the Battle of WF - from the trailer, it looks like he is front and center.

[LadyChaos]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

I guess we are going to see a repeat of Sansa's season 6/7 plot for the first two episodes next season. 

Meanwhile Ser Friendzone has finally made his peace with Dany.

And now that he has finally made his peace, time for Jorah to die sacrificing himself for Dany - most probably at the Battle of WF - from the trailer, it looks like he is front and center.

Sadly, if it goes that way for either of them, Im not surprised. 

[GraceK]

19 minutes ago, anamika said:

Liam Cunningham: "Sansa will not be delighted with Daenerys and distrusts Jon"

Sigh. 🤦🏻‍♀️ What more can Jon do to earn Sansas trust? Throw someone out a moon-door and sell her to a sadist? This is ridiculous now. And boring. And annoying. 

19 minutes ago, anamika said:

I guess we are going to see a repeat of Sansa's season 6/7 plot for the first two episodes next season. 

I’m already exhausted. Do they have nothing better for Sophie Turner to do? Seriously.  She deserves a better plot line than this second rate Cersei thing they are trying to sell .

[SimoneS]

Oh Sansa. I swear, they give her those ridiculous stories because they know there is a segment of fandom obsessed with her for some unknown reason.

18 minutes ago, anamika said:

Meanwhile Ser Friendzone has finally made his peace with Dany.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/18/game-of-thrones-ser-jorah-jon-snow/

And now that he has finally made his peace, time for Jorah to die sacrificing himself for Dany - most probably at the Battle of WF - from the trailer, it looks like he is front and center.

Iain Glen is a good actor so this played out on screen. He has long given up on Dany ever loving him back, maybe when she took Daario as a lover. Regardless, Jorah is devoted to her. He was writing to her when he thought there was no hope that he would be cured of Greyscale. I have always expected Jorah to die in battle.

[anamika]

43 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Sigh. 🤦🏻‍♀️ What more can Jon do to earn Sansas trust? Throw someone out a moon-door and sell her to a sadist? This is ridiculous now. And boring. And annoying. 

I’m already exhausted. Do they have nothing better for Sophie Turner to do? Seriously.  She deserves a better plot line than this second rate Cersei thing they are trying to sell .

Sansa has always had issues with Jon. Executing LF is not going to magically get rid of those issues.  Jon and Sansa have a fundamentally different way of doing things. The lack of trust in this case means that Sansa thinks she can do a better job than Jon as ruler. She distrusts his decision making skills.

As Gwendoline mentioned, Sansa has an 'irrepressible ambition and desire to rule'. And now Jon has bend the knee and proclaimed Dany as Queen. Sansa will have to answer to Dany rather than Jon. She is not going to be a fan.

And then Jon's parentage is going to throw a spanner in the works - did he bend the knee for tactical purposes, because he's in love or because he's a targ?

We need some drama in WF for the first two episodes before the shit hits the fan in episode 3. And I guess since Glover is not available, it's gonna be Sansa and probably Royce who are the dissenting faction.

All I will say is that they better not have ARYA distrusting Jon and siding with Sansa over Jon in this plot. I can see D&D doing this after a 30 second reunion scene between them for some manufactured drama.

33 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

He has long given up on Dany ever loving him back, maybe when she took Daario as a love

He was still a little jealous before boatbang. As per the script when they discuss sailing to White harbor:

Quote

Fucking punkass little shitburger stole my khaleesi!

Edited March 19, 2019 by anamika

[Happy Harpy]

I love the idea that Jorah won't be petty and truly wants Daenerys' happiness. He became one of my favorite characters, and I don't want him ruined by jealousy. I wonder if casual viewers expect him to betray because of his feelings for Daenerys, whereas if Frikidoctor is right, it willl be Tyrion.

As for Sansa, it could go either way. Sophie T. described her character arc in a similar way as Liam (a leader on her own not liking people who threatens it). It could be that Sansa still didn't learn after all and will stay the petty politician. But after she reconciled with Arya, it would be a "twist" if Sansa was a serious antagonist in S8 and they wouldn't reveal it before the season airs, so I'd tend to say it's only a PR smokescreen like last season.

31 minutes ago, anamika said:

All I will say is that they better not have ARYA distrusting Jon and siding with Sansa over Jon in this plot. I can see D&D doing this after a 30 second reunion scene between them. That will be taking a giant dump on the entire 5 book Jon and Arya relationship.

It would take a giant dump on the Arya/Jon relationship on the show, too. Arya was loyal to him above everyone else although they didn't see each other in years. The show didn't ignore the reality of the relationships between the Stark kids so far, with people who didn't get along as children still clashing as adults for the same differences of temper etc, so I'll cross my fingers for it to last.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Minneapple]

I bet Sansa's mistrust of Jon comes about because he made a deal with Cersei. Not only did he give away the North, he also trusted Cersei to some degree. In Sansa's book these are probably the worst things he could have done.

I don't think she'll be an antagonist or villain, though.

[GraceK]

46 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I bet Sansa's mistrust of Jon comes about because he made a deal with Cersei. Not only did he give away the North, he also trusted Cersei to some degree. In Sansa's book these are probably the worst things he could have done.

I don't think she'll be an antagonist or villain, though.

I hope not. I want to root for Sansa this season . I want the Starks United. I’m sick of this stupid plot of Sansa not trusting her brother/cousin. It leaves a sick feeling in my gut and no matter how much you try to headcanon it, ( that’s a general you, not YOU personally 😊) Sansa just doesn’t look good because Jon is just too noble and good of a character and treats her too well for that to land. At least they had Arya threaten to cut her face off to sell that conflict.  Jon just doesn’t listen to her advice a couple of times and suddenly he can’t be trusted? 🙄it doesn’t hold any weight for Sansa and Jon to be at odds and everyone knows it. He leaves the north in her care, loves and respects her. His decisions aren’t popular but they make sense and Sansa is smart . Why they keep pushing this is beyond me. It just makes her character look bad and I WANT to like her again.  That’s all I’ll say cause I dont want this derailed  again 😂😂😂

Edited March 19, 2019 by GraceK

[Minneapple]

Well, part of the problem is that they write Jon to be too trusting and thus kind of an idiot. He gives away the North and makes a deal with Cersei that more than likely will come back to bite them all in the ass. When he keeps doing stupid stuff like that, of course Sansa won't trust him no matter how noble he is.

Arya threatening to cut off Sansa's face did nothing but make Arya look like a crazy person, btw. Sansa placates the lords and uses her parents' bedroom and Arya...threatens to cut off her face? Whoa. Talk about an overreaction. But it appears that the sisters' conflict is over, so I am interested in seeing how the Starklings overcome all their issues and team up, because I do think that will happen in the end.

[SeanC]

It's not terribly hard to guess the source of the conflict.  Sansa was opposed to going to Daenerys, and certainly was opposed to Jon handing over Northern sovereignty to her.

In the normal course of events, this would be a 100% legitimate beef.

However, it can't help but feel completely out of place at this juncture.  I don't expect it will amount to anything beyond some token bits early on before a zillion other plot bombs go off, but all the same, I find it funny how the writers' choices repeatedly position Sansa in the exact opposite way to what would be an effective demonstration of her intended skills.  As somebody who has been repeatedly and variously called a realist, a skilled political strategist, and a diplomat, you would logically expect her to be somebody who recognizes the value of this alliance at this juncture and was important in forming and/or maintaining it.

[anamika]

1. Jaime is headed their way and is going to get there soon and tell them that Cersei is opting out. Not sure why Sansa would need to get angry about Jon 'trusting' Cersei.

They need all the allies they can get. Jon asked. Cersei said yes. She reneged. What is that to Sansa? Why should she distrust Jon over this?

2. He bend the knee because that's the right thing to. From the teaser trailer, we see that the Unsullied, Jorah, Dothraki, GreyWorm etc. and a whole bunch of dragonglass is at WF because of this alliance with Dany.

3. If Sansa is distrusting and pissed off at Cersei then she should in fact appreciate that Jon aligned with Dany to fight and defeat Cersei. Jon refused to sit by the sidelines and instead stated that he would join hands with Dany to defeat their long time enemy.

The stupidity here is arguing politics when the AOTD is on your doorstep.

The problem with the writing for Sansa is that it's one step forward, two steps back with her.

Season 6: She unites with Jon, everything is nice. LF: Jon's your half brother. Sansa: .....

And then after all the lying and holding back information, she apologizes to Jon and talks about how she was a silly girl wanting more than she had etc.

And then the Northern lords make Jon KITN . Sansa: ......

And then after all the passive-aggressive undermining of Jon in season 7 and power struggle and getting manipulated by LF and nearly having Jon deposed, she says that she's a slow learner but she learns and the pack survives and all that and has LF executed.

And then Dany gets to WF and Jon is a Targ. Sansa: .....

 And for the audience, I am tired of seeing Sansa whinge about something in her scenes with Jon. We have had two seasons of this. Now we are going to get more?

I go back to GRRM having created Sansa as a character for conflict and being the family member of dubious loyalty. Maybe that's why they keep writing her this way, over and over again. And maybe Sansa's fish scale dress and her glance towards Cat in the Crypts teaser trailer indicates that Sansa will treat Jon with the same suspicion that her mother did.

[anamika]

Interview with NCW. Not sure if he is talking about last scene he shot or Jaime's last scene. Either way seems to be a scene he enjoyed.

Quote

“I had a great last scene. It was absolutely beautiful. It was the perfect way to end, obviously I can’t tell you what the scene was.

“It wasn’t the final scene (of the series), but it was close to the end. It was shot at a beautiful location. “At this point, I had seen quite a lot of colleagues wrap, so I had seen a lot of tears, beautiful speeches, and I knew what to expect. I didn’t expect to be emotional, so I don’t know what happened, I had allergy, there was something in my eye,” he said, smiling, while touching the corner of his left eye.

“My final scene was beautiful.”

https://www.star2.com/entertainment/2019/03/19/nikolaj-coster-waldau-says-final-game-thrones-beautiful/

Considering Gwen was there with him in the first week of June (june 5th) in Belfast, if this was when he wrapped, I am guessing this is some Jaime-Brienne scene.

Edited March 19, 2019 by anamika

[bubble sparkly]

I think I could perhaps understand the Sansa / Northerners whining bullshit more if D&D had written it they didn’t actually believe Jon about the AOTD. Like, last season Team Dany were understandably skeptical about Jon’s claims until the wight hunt. Dany even said that she had to see it to understand.

If last season Sansa and the NL had been skeptical of Jon, it would have actually made sense that they were pissed he went to Dragonstone and were talking about replacing him with Sansa 2 seconds after he left. Sansa could have maybe even legitimately worried that Jon’s resurrection scrambled his brain a bit and made him paranoid etc. If Sansa and the NL were skeptical then it would make more sense that they are annoyed when Jon rocks up with Dany and 100,000 more mouths to feed, having bent the knee. Assuming the AOTD show up in 8x03 that could have been Sansa and the NL’s “see it to know” moment. (I know Bran is the 3ER but considering his lack of personality last season I think people also being skeptical of him  too is pretty valid).

However, as it stands, Sansa and the NL apparently believe Jon about the AOTD. He left the 10,000 strong army of the North and returned with 2 dragons and like 100,000 men.  What the hell else do they want from him? It makes Sansa and the NL look stupid when the AOTD is marching for them and Team Dany is the only hope of saving the North. Surely political genius Sansa would 1) weep with joy at the sight of a massive army that’s come to save her, 2) try to ingratiate herself to Dany and make sure Team Stark and Team Targ are close allies, and 3) suggest a Dany/Jon marriage to ensure the North is a top priority if/when Dany takes the IT and to get Jon out of her hair so she can run the North with minimal interference.

[Happy Harpy]

Beautiful scene = Jaime dying in Brienne's arms? I still feel that maybe, one Lannister out of the three is going to make it. People expect Tyrion...if there's a survivor, it should be one of the others. A lot of things depend on NCW's definition of close here, but "close to the final scene (of the series)" (not "the last scene that was filmed") wouldn't be 8x03 or 8x04, would it? It does sound like a 8x06 scene.

HBO really kept their secrets this season. I remember that we had this discussion about how Sansa/the Northern lords would look petty vs the looming AOTD last year, and again with the first images of the season. No progress, sigh.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[whateverdgaf]

6 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Beautiful scene = Jaime dying in Brienne's arms? I still feel that maybe, one Lannister out of the three is going to make it.

He did mention it was shot in a beautiful location. That doesn't sound like a battlefield. 

[ursula]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Surely political genius Sansa would 1) weep with joy at the sight of a massive army that’s come to save her, 2) try to ingratiate herself to Dany and make sure Team Stark and Team Targ are close allies, and 3) suggest a Dany/Jon marriage to ensure the North is a top priority if/when Dany takes the IT and to get Jon out of her hair so she can run the North with minimal interference.

This. I won't understand the motivations/decisions of the writers wrt to Sansa being hostile to Dany. Sansa is worried about Cersei ---- ergo, she should want Dany as an ally/shield against Cersei. White Walkers are coming ---- ergo, Sansa should want Dany as an ally/shield against the White Walkers. Sansa wants uninterrupted rule over Winterfell/The North ---- Sansa should want Dany as an ally/sister-in-law to push her brother off to so that she can be its sole ruler. Everything points to Sansa wanting to cultivate Dany's friendship and encourage her relationship with Jon. A storyline where she resents, or worse undermines Dany, makes her the opposite of political savvy and just plain childish. Which is something she's supposed to have grown out of. 

[Smad]

Yawn. Find a new way to advertise the show HBO, Got Cast and showrunners. Sansa this, Sansa that hasn't amounted to anything for 2 freaking Seasons since you never deliver on it anyway. Not buying it anymore. Find a new tune that's actually exiting and not a bunch of nonsense. Freaking boring. I guess all you can do is use a controversial character to get hype because you have nothing else going for you. Which is pretty much true for the last few Seasons.

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

And for the audience, I am tired of seeing Sansa whinge about something in her scenes with Jon. We have had two seasons of this. Now we are going to get more?

Sophie has told us that Sansa enjoys being in charge at Winterfell and faces "challenges" to her authority this year. James Hibberd said that Sansa isn't thrilled with Daenerys, at least not at first. And now Liam Cunningham is saying that Sansa isn't thrilled with Dany and distrusts Jon. So it sounds like initially, anyway, yeah, we're going to get more.

The good news is that the only reason Hibberd and Liam Cunningham would be hyping up Sansa vs. Jon/Dany conflict is if it is resolved in fairly short order and not some big plot point, much like in Season 7 where the big Jon/Sansa conflict was dispatched fairly quickly with little incident. I'm guessing Sansa initially puts up a big stink and then settles down by Episode 3.

And really, it makes sense from a character perspective that Sansa would not be happy about Dany and Jon. She has never taken the WW threat seriously, she desperately wants Winterfell to herself to run unopposed and now Jon has bent the knee, meaning that Winterfell is not hers anymore, her fate is in the hands of some Targ she has never met, and this was done for the benefit of combating an enemy Sansa has never seen for herself and therefore doesn't understand. It is in character for TV Sansa to be displeased by these developments. It would be wildly out of character for Sansa to swallow her pride and realize that the WW threat was more important and that Jon probably had good reasons for doing what he did. I think she'll eventually come around, but she'll probably be pretty nasty to Dany and Jon in the interim. 

4 hours ago, anamika said:

Interview with NCW. Not sure if he is talking about last scene he shot or Jaime's last scene. Either way seems to be a scene he enjoyed.

https://www.star2.com/entertainment/2019/03/19/nikolaj-coster-waldau-says-final-game-thrones-beautiful/

Considering Gwen was there with him in the first week of June (june 5th) in Belfast, if this was when he wrapped, I am guessing this is some Jaime-Brienne scene.

It's probably a death scene, since otherwise NCW wouldn't be gushing about it, but...a "beautiful" one, I guess.

[SimoneS]

I am sure the "beautiful" scene NCW is referring to is a death scene. Actors love doing those dramatic death scenes as they rarely get to do them. 

I am not sure that Sansa has ever really believed that the NK and his army was as dangerous as Jon claimed, definitely not as dangerous she believes Cersei to be. Sansa wasn't thrilled with Jon going south to make the alliance with Daenerys. They should bring the wight to Winterfell so Sansa and the Northern Lords could see it for themselves. 

I am not convinced that the Sansa/Jon conflict will wrap soon. I thought that last season with Sansa and Arya and it lasted the whole season. Sansa will probably have issues with Jon/Dany right until the NK shows up with his army.

Edited March 19, 2019 by SimoneS

[anamika]

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I think I could perhaps understand the Sansa / Northerners whining bullshit more if D&D had written it they didn’t actually believe Jon about the AOTD. Like, last season Team Dany were understandably skeptical about Jon’s claims until the wight hunt. Dany even said that she had to see it to understand.

I mentioned in an earlier discussion here, that Jon and Co. should not have destroyed that wight - getting it proved so costly, why not utilize it fully. Send the Hound on a trip around the 7K showing everyone. Including to those useless Maesters at the Citadel who scoffed at Bran's letter.

Jon should have taken it North and unleashed it in the great hall and then probably Sansa and the rest of the Lords would get with the program about why this alliance is necessary.

1 hour ago, ursula said:

Sansa should want Dany as an ally/sister-in-law to push her brother off to so that she can be its sole ruler.

I do think that Sansa will be the one to suggest this for precisely this reason. To get Jon out of the way and she can have sole control of the North. There has to be a reason that the only person bringing up a Jon/Dany marriage was LF to Sansa. There should be some scenes where Sansa applies what she learned from her mentor.

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The good news is that the only reason Hibberd and Liam Cunningham would be hyping up Sansa vs. Jon/Dany conflict is if it is resolved in fairly short order and not some big plot point, much like in Season 7 where the big Jon/Sansa conflict was dispatched fairly quickly with little incident

Unfortunately, it was not dispatched off quickly. Since Jon had to go romance Dany, they used Arya as the Jon stand in. The basic disagreement between Arya and Sansa last season was that Sansa wanted to be queen instead of Jon and that Arya was not going to let that happen. Sansa complains about Jon to Arya and LF and LF almost manipulates her into crowning herself queen with the help of the lords. So the Jon/Sansa feud did cover two seasons and as per Liam Cunningham, it's going to continue into next season.

From Sophie's comments, I do get the feeling Sansa's 'Passionate challenge' is going to be protecting the Starks from what she perceives as a threat in Dany and Jon supporting Dany and bending the knee. 

The only good thing is that with some 20 characters converging in WF and the AOTD on their way, time devoted to this issue will hopefully be minuscule.

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It's probably a death scene, since otherwise NCW wouldn't be gushing about it, but...a "beautiful" one, I guess.

Reminds me of Peter dinklage's comments....

Quote

Game of Thrones actor Peter Dinklage just hinted at the fate of his character Tyrion Lannister. And he seems to be just as emotional as you about the whole thing. "It ends beautifully for my character," Dinklage told Entertainment Tonight (ET). "Whether it be tragic or not."

Maybe the Lannisters all end up getting some 'beautiful' deaths....

Edited March 19, 2019 by anamika

[screamin]

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Surely political genius Sansa would 1) weep with joy at the sight of a massive army that’s come to save her, 2) try to ingratiate herself to Dany and make sure Team Stark and Team Targ are close allies, and 3) suggest a Dany/Jon marriage to ensure the North is a top priority if/when Dany takes the IT and to get Jon out of her hair so she can run the North with minimal interference.

That can be totally true and still happen without Sansa trusting Jon - indeed, it may happen BECAUSE Sansa doesn't trust Jon. In this case the distrust can simply be that Sansa sees Jon as utterly besotted with Dany, hence too likely to give away too much power for too little return. So it might be part of that distrust for Sansa to push for a marriage between Dany and Jon, to make permanent an obligated Stark-Targaryen alliance that would keep the North first and closest among Dany's subjects. That way, just in case Dany gets tired of Jon one day as a lover and wants to set him and the North aside as of lesser importance than new lovers and/or provinces, she won't be able to.

[Eyes High]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

Unfortunately, it was not dispatched off quickly. Since Jon had to go romance Dany, they used Arya as the Jon stand in. The basic disagreement between Arya and Sansa last season was that Sansa wanted to be queen instead of Jon and that Arya was not going to let that happen.

I'm not going to go over S7 again because that's not what the thread is for. I'll just say that the actors' willingness to hype Sansa vs. Jon/Dany means that it won't amount to very much, in my opinion. It's probably just filler to eat up time until the AOTD arrives.

If Sansa is playing the role of the loudest dissenter and doubter, that may explain why Lord Glover's actor was not asked back for S8.

Quote

From Sophie's comments, I do get the feeling Sansa's 'Passionate challenge' is going to be protecting the Starks from what she perceives as a threat in Dany and Jon supporting Dany and bending the knee. 

Didn't Sophie say that it was more a passionate fight rather than a political fight, though? Trying to take steps to protect the Starks from Jon and Dany's maneuvrings sounds like the essence of politics to me.

Quote

Reminds me of Peter dinklage's comments....

Maybe the Lannisters all end up getting some 'beautiful' deaths....

Except that I doubt Peter Dinklage would be hinting at a tragic end for Tyrion if it is in fact tragic.

Quote

That can be totally true and still happen without Sansa trusting Jon - indeed, it may happen BECAUSE Sansa doesn't trust Jon. In this case the distrust can simply be that Sansa sees Jon as utterly besotted with Dany, hence too likely to give away too much power for too little return. So it might be part of that distrust for Sansa to push for a marriage between Dany and Jon, to make permanent an obligated Stark-Targaryen alliance that would keep the North first and closest among Dany's subjects. That way, just in case Dany gets tired of Jon one day as a lover and wants to set him and the North aside as of lesser importance than new lovers and/or provinces, she won't be able to.

Sansa doesn't care about "the North." She cares about her own power. The only reason she would push for a Jon/Dany marriage would be to get Jon out of the way so that she can have Winterfell and the North to herself as she has wanted for some time.

[screamin]

21 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Sansa doesn't care about "the North." She cares about her own power. The only reason she would push for a Jon/Dany marriage would be to get Jon out of the way so that she can have Winterfell and the North to herself as she has wanted for some time.

That's your opinion. And since Dany doesn't have anything BUT the North right now, and isn't going to till the NK is defeated AND the Iron Throne taken (both of which are far from foregone conclusions) I'd say Sansa's motivations will be a lot more immediate than the far-off theoretical possibility that she'd get WF to rule herself if Dany DOES eventually win and goes to KL to rule with Jon. Securing the marriage alliance immediately is good for the North and a repayment for Jon's fealty that he hasn't demanded himself.

Edited March 19, 2019 by screamin

[anamika]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not going to go over S7 again because that's not what the thread is for. I'll just say that the actors' willingness to hype Sansa vs. Jon/Dany means that it won't amount to very much, in my opinion. It's probably just filler to eat up time until the AOTD arrives. 

It's definitely filler, but does not mean it does not happen. I think the reason for why they are talking about it and teasing it is because it's a continuation of what happened last season - Sansa not pleased that Jon bend the knee. Nothing spoilery here. It's expected. The same way the actors talk about the effect of R+L = J. Everyone knows it's going to create drama - actors also talk it up.

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Didn't Sophie say that it was more a passionate fight rather than a political fight, though? Trying to take steps to protect the Starks from Jon and Dany's maneuvrings sounds like the essence of politics to me.

Maybe she is passionate about being in charge 😀. Maybe she sees Jon/Dany as a threat to the Starks and is passionate about defending her family.

Quote

How will Sansa fare next season without Littlefinger in her ear?
It’s going to be tricky for her, because at the end of last season, she felt that she had everything set up. She had her family back together. They were in control of the North again. This season, there’s a new threat, and all of a sudden she finds herself somewhat back in the deep end. And without Littlefinger, it’s a test for her of whether she can get through it. It’s a big challenge for her, without this master manipulator having her back. This season is more a passionate fight for her than a political, manipulative kind of fight.

Is that because this season she faces less a political threat and more an existential, zombie sort of threat?
Well, I don’t know. We’ll have to see.

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Except that I doubt Peter Dinklage would be hinting at a tragic end for Tyrion if it is in fact tragic.

He could be. He could not be. People think that Sophie tattooed the Stark ending on her forearm for everyone to see.

I don't think Tyrion is dying by the way. I am starting to really doubt Friki's leaks now.

[Eyes High]

12 minutes ago, screamin said:

That's your opinion. And since Dany doesn't have anything BUT the North right now, and isn't going to till the NK is defeated AND the Iron Throne taken (both of which are far from foregone conclusions) I'd say her motivations will be a lot more immediate than the far-off theoretical possibility that she'd get WF to rule herself if Dany DOES eventually win and goes to KL to rule with Jon. Securing the marriage alliance immediately is good for the North and a repayment for Jon's fealty that he hasn't demanded himself.

If Sansa engineers a marriage between Jon and Dany, from everything we have seen of her character to date, it will be solely to the end of obtaining power for herself and not for any other purpose, noble or otherwise. Her own power is the main thing, arguably the only thing, that Sansa cares about now. Maybe that's what Sophie meant with her comments about Sansa falling in love with herself in S8, heh.

9 minutes ago, anamika said:

Maybe she is passionate about being in charge 😀. Maybe she sees Jon/Dany as a threat to the Starks and is passionate about defending her family.

It's possible, I guess. "Passionate fight" is a phrase open to interpretation.

Quote

I don't think Tyrion is dying by the way. I am starting to really doubt Friki's leaks now.

I will be very, very interested to find out what ultimately was filmed for the 8x06 Dragonpit scenes, because everyone who has claimed to know what was filmed in Seville has a story that doesn't entirely add up.

To play devil's advocate, would Jaime really be dying that close to the end, in a "beautiful location"? 8x05, sure, but the back half of 8x06? What's he going to die of if he survives past the final battle, a broken heart? Maybe if Tyrion does get executed, then Jaime ends up as Lord of Casterly Rock and marries Brienne after all. That could explain why NCW and Gwendoline are so thrilled about the ending.

[Happy Harpy]

It doesn't even matter if the Northern lords and Sansa don't believe in the AOTD or don't understand because they didn't see; it would only make it worse in the eye of the audience who knows the reality and scale of the threat, imo.

They will see the dragons, the Unsullied, the Dothtraki. They know that Cersei will never grant the North its independence. They know, Sansa more than anyone, the kind of ruler Cersei is, will be and how they'll have zero power, if they're lucky enough to escape with their lives, in case she's the last one standing. Even with no AOTD, and only an enemy to the South, the North that has been weakened by years of civil wars and occupation wouldn't be able to defeat the Golden Company -since it's a worthy opponent of Dany's mighty armies.

The smartest thing the North could do, then, would be to welcome Cersei's rival with open arms, get on her good side and use the close relationship she has with Jon in order to get as many prerogatives as possible. After all, Dany granted Yara the title of queen of the Iron Islands. She wouldn't do that for all seven of the kingdoms, of course, but with the Reach, Dorne and even the Iron Islands actually out of the game, the North has a card to play and an opportunity to become Dany's "right hand kingdom", which is the best it can hope for. Jon might have bent the knee, but from the trailer with their entrance in Wintertown riding side by side, as well as the sneak peek in the courtyard, Dany seems to treat Jon more as an equal than a subordinate; an encouraging and concrete sign in that direction for someone politically astute to notice and use for everyone's best interest.

Hence, antagonizing Dany would be plainly stupid, of the TSTL category and on every possible level, in universe or out, AOTD or not. It's such an indefensible stance, imo, that if the writers try to give it a leg to stand on, the result would be worse than Tyrion's sudden snowflakation in S7.

Which is why I truly hope the writers won't do that and it will stop at the frosty reception we already saw. I'm 90% sure they're trying to mislead the audience, but I have to admit it's also wishful thinking.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[anamika]

There was a nice interview of Kit in Variety. Some quotes on season 8.

Quote

Quote

“Looking back at the entirety of ‘Thrones,’ there’ll be 70% of the scenes that I’ll just never be happy with. I’ve come to terms with that.” The upcoming eighth season represented something of a breakthrough. “I know who this is now, and I’m at peace with who this is. I just got a feeling that it’s the most satisfied I will be with my work as Jon Snow.”

Which is not to say that Harington’s work could have gone on forever. The last season of “Thrones” was an arduous nine-month shoot “in extreme weather and just in heavy f—ing costumes,” Harington says. “I was there the whole time this year. I felt a bit like people were coming in and out, and Jon Snow was just f—ing there the whole time.

Harington watched his colleague Dinklage wrap production, “and I saw him just break down,” the actor says. The next day, when Harington himself wrapped, he recalls “a huge heave of emotion. I’m just blubbing.” Harington also cried at the table read of the final season, noting that “the end of Jon’s journey, whatever that may be … I was satisfied with how his story ended.”

https://variety.com/2019/tv/features/kit-harington-game-of-thrones-finale-jon-snow-1203165896/

So looks like Peter, then Kit and finally Maisie were the last actors to wrap in that order.

Edited March 19, 2019 by anamika

[Nightingale]

So Javi's claim that Peter's last day was a scene involving Tyrion, Jon and Davos walking in the middle of a burned King's Landing still holds true for now.

[Meredith Quill]

The best least thing that Sansa should do is remember the old adage "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and operate on that basis until Cersei is deposed, if nothing else. Let's hope she has the smarts to do just that.

[Advance35]

Eh. I can see why Sansa would be vexed.  She WAS Regent of the North, until Jon bent the knee.  He sent a note saying Sis, we are no longer independent, you now answer to.....

She has also been in Kings Landing, where power is NEVER shared equally.  And alliances/marriages are really just civilized (although not really) ongoing struggles for Supremacy.  She didn't realize the Power plays going on in Kings Landing between House Lannister and House Baratheon in Season 1.   She did start to become more aware of intrigue in Season 3 when House Lannister and House Tyrell first started to go at it.  She agreed to marry Ramsay, thinking she would have an opportunity to sabotage and subplant House Bolton.  An Alliance does not mean you aren't dealing with a sworn/mortal enemy. 

And it's especially dangerous when one half of the pairing is a complete sucker.  Jon has surrendered the North.  He is subordinate to Dany.  Technically, Dany could make him the Royal Cupbearer of Kings Landing and he'd have to do it.  He has no power and therefore Sansa has none.  That's why she doesn't trust Jon.   The power balance between Dany and Jon would be similar to Tommen/Margaery.  Jon is/will be easy to play, by Dany, Tyrion, Varys and pretty much everyone else.

And while I think Sansa's issues are more centered on herself, look at what happened to Dany's last allies.   Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and Lady Olenna are dead, Everything House Tyrell had has gone into supporting Cersei's regime.  Dany hits Westeros, hitting up Houses for an alliance like the Avon Lady, but anyone that gets involved with her, tends to come to a bad end.  But Dany herself, keeps on keeping on.

I'm just glad there will be one person not waving the "We Love Dany" Flag this season.

[ursula]

24 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

And it's especially dangerous when one half of the pairing is a complete sucker.  Jon has surrendered the North.  He is subordinate to Dany.  Technically, Dany could make him the Royal Cupbearer of Kings Landing and he'd have to do it.  He has no power and therefore Sansa has none.  That's why she doesn't trust Jon.   The power balance between Dany and Jon would be similar to Tommen/Margaery.  Jon is/will be easy to play, by Dany, Tyrion, Varys and pretty much everyone else.

I don't get this argument at all.

Jon could bend the knee... or Dany could take her dragons, and armies and Field-of-Fire the North. Jon could bend the knee... or Dany could pull a Cersei, sit pretty on dragonstone and watch the North fight and lose against the Night King. Jon could bend the knee... or Dany could sit pretty on dragonstone and watch the North defend itself against Cersei's Golden Company and lose.

In exchange for "surrendering" the North, Jon is getting Dany's dragons and armies that she subverted from her campaign against Cersei to defend the North against White Walkers. And like every Targaryen regent before her, she lets the House of Stark keep rulership of the North. 

I mean I guess if the North's ideal endgame is to stay proud and independent right up until they're overrun by White Walkers or Cersei's armies or dragonfire...?

Dany doesn't need Jon's surrender. The North needs Dany. If there's an imbalance, it's in the opposite direction. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by ursula

[Happy Harpy]

30 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

She WAS Regent of the North, until Jon bent the knee.

Exactly, she was regent, which means she was in power solely by the grace of Jon, the King In the North and only until his return. She wasn't to rule the North forever, she wasn't queen.

Therefore, Jon bending the knee changes nothing to Sansa's personal political status. She was Lady of Winterfell, vassal of Jon the KITN, when Jon left. When Jon returns in S8, she'll still be Lady of Winterfell, vassal of Jon the Warden of the North. Only his title changed, not hers, nor the fact that as a vassal and since it isn't a democracy, she has to abide by his decisions.

[Advance35]

Quote

In exchange for "surrendering" the North, Jon is getting Dany's dragons and armies that she subverted from her campaign against Cersei to defend the North against White Walkers. And like every Targaryen regent before her, she lets the House of Stark keep rulership of the North. 

I mean I guess if the North's ideal endgame is to stay proud and independent right up until they're overrun by White Walkers or Cersei's armies or dragonfire...?

Dany doesn't need Jon's surrender. The North needs Dany. If there's an imbalance, it's in the opposite direction. 

Well Sansa's issue with Dany is that she has to HOPE Dany LET'S House Stark keep rulership of the North.  She'll always resent ANYONE who has power over her, the last few years have been to ugly for her to feel different.

And after Dany saw the WW herself, she agreed to stall her campaign because if the North falls, all of the people join the Army and she has an even larger enemy force to contend with.   Before Dany was swept away by Jon's animal magnetism?!?!? her motivation was self-preservation.   And again, her "Allies" tend to lose in any involvement with her.   She continues on with her full force, while her allies forces are dead and their resources gone.  On paper it doesn't look good.

Not even taking into account, that marriage is just another battlefield in Westeros (see Dany's betrothed from wherever she was in Season 5).

Before Sansa only had to deal with Jon, who usually just told her the equivalent of "Shut up and sit in the corner" pretty much anytime she had an opinion.  Now, as little ground as she had with Jon, cut that even lower now that "The Dragon Queen" owns/rules Winterfell lock, stock and barrel.   Can Dany be swayed by her advisors?  Sansa doesn't know.  Can Dany play Jon like a cheap harmonica (if she tried I'm sure she could).  Sansa will grumble but ultimately keep her mouth shut because of Dany's plot armer but if we weren't at the Sci-Fi rules all portion of the story, this would be a legitimate grievance.

And Sansa is hardly the only one concerned with the flow of power.  Lest we forget per Season 7 and Season 8 Spoilers, Tyrion is still working to ensure the survival and well being of House Lannister.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Advance35

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I am sure the "beautiful" scene NCW is referring to is a death scene. Actors love doing those dramatic death scenes as they rarely get to do them. 

Probably, although as @anamika pointed out, that certainly casts Peter Dinklage's promise of a "beautiful ending" for Tyrion in a different light. I'm just at a loss as to what Jaime is supposed to die of in 8x06 in a "beautiful location," since it's not on the battlefield or in a collapsing throne room or on the streets of KL. I guess maybe he has a fatal wound that's septic or something and, accepting his fate, he gets Brienne to take him to a beach or field (in Northern Ireland somewhere) so he can die in a beautiful place, and she holds him as he breathes his last and it's all romantic and tragic. Otherwise, I don't know what Jaime's doing by dying in a beautiful place and not on a bed being treated by a maester, unless he's committing suicide.

2 hours ago, Nightingale said:

So Javi's claim that Peter's last day was a scene involving Tyrion, Jon and Davos walking in the middle of a burned King's Landing still holds true for now.

I think the logical conclusion is that Peter's last scene was filmed in the middle of a burned King's Landing, since that's what Sapochnik was shooting for the previous few weeks in June/July 2018. Maisie's last scene was filmed in the middle of a burned KL as well. I do wonder when Liam's last day was if Liam was still filming on Wednesday, Kit wrapped on Thursday, and Maisie wrapped on Friday with a message implying that she was the last actor to finish. Did Kit and Liam wrap the same day? Did Liam wrap the following wek and Maisie didn't wrap last after all?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Eyes High

[Meredith Quill]

I think one of the bigger overall issues explored in this story is self-interest vs. doing what's best for the greater good. No single person or single 'kingdom' is more important than the survival of Westeros as a whole and any character who doesn't act toward that united goal is seen as lacking virtue. Generally, we tend to root for those who are willing to sacrifice self-interest for the greater good. As you read this, you can immediately have characters, alive or dead, come to mind that fall into one or the other side of this idea.

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Probably, although as @anamika pointed out, that certainly casts Peter Dinklage's promise of a "beautiful ending" for Tyrion in a different light. I'm just at a loss as to what Jaime is supposed to die of in 8x06 in a "beautiful location," since it's not on the battlefield or in a collapsing throne room or on the streets of KL. I guess maybe he has a fatal wound that's septic or something and, accepting his fate, he gets Brienne to take him to a beach or field (in Northern Ireland somewhere) so he can die in a beautiful place, and she holds him as he breathes his last and it's all romantic and tragic. Otherwise, I don't know what Jaime's doing by dying in a beautiful place and not on a bed being treated by a maester, unless he's committing suicide.

I always said that it was what Peter Dinklage has said in interviews that persuaded me that Tyrion will die, not Friki's spumors/leaks. However, rereading NCW's comments, I realize that his "final" scene filmed might not Jaime's final scene in the show so maybe it wasn't a death scene, but rather a touching moment with Brienne just before Jaime's death. 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I always said that it was what Peter Dinklage has said in interviews that persuaded me that Tyrion will die, not Friki's spumors/leaks. However, rereading NCW's comments, I realize that his "final" scene filmed might not Jaime's final scene in the show so maybe it wasn't a death scene, but rather a touching moment with Brienne just before Jaime's death. 

Rereading NCW's quote, I realize NCW's last scene may not have been of Jaime's last scene, since scenes get filmed out of order, but in the past the death scenes are sometimes the last thing the actors film: Catelyn, Robb, Olenna and Hodor's actors filmed their death scenes last. So if Jaime's last scene in the show is in fact a death scene, it is possible that NCW's last scene on the show was also Jaime's last scene in GOT.

ETA: Looking into it, Lancel, the High Sparrow, and Ramsay's actors also shot their death scenes last. Littlefinger, Ellaria and Tyene's death scenes were filmed earlier on, though.

Going back and looking at NCW's Instagram from the week he finished filming (June 4th-8th, 2018), NCW posted a selfie with Gwendoline Christie wearing War Child UK T-shirts on June 5th. They look like they're outdoors in a garden or field somewhere (with bushes in the background). The next day, Isaac Hempstead-Wright posted a selfie, also wearing a War Child UK T-shirt, with much the same background. It looks like it could be a "beautiful location" after all.

So is Bran in this last of NCW's scenes with Brienne and Jaime? Were these photographs their way of commemorating NCW's last scene? Was it Gwendoline's last scene as well? (Gwendoline posted on IG the week after the week of June 4th about meeting a dog "at work," seemingly referencing David Copperfield and not GOT.)

Edited March 19, 2019 by Eyes High

[LadyChaos]

12 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I think I could perhaps understand the Sansa / Northerners whining bullshit more if D&D had written it they didn’t actually believe Jon about the AOTD. Like, last season Team Dany were understandably skeptical about Jon’s claims until the wight hunt. Dany even said that she had to see it to understand.

If last season Sansa and the NL had been skeptical of Jon, it would have actually made sense that they were pissed he went to Dragonstone and were talking about replacing him with Sansa 2 seconds after he left. Sansa could have maybe even legitimately worried that Jon’s resurrection scrambled his brain a bit and made him paranoid etc. If Sansa and the NL were skeptical then it would make more sense that they are annoyed when Jon rocks up with Dany and 100,000 more mouths to feed, having bent the knee. Assuming the AOTD show up in 8x03 that could have been Sansa and the NL’s “see it to know” moment. (I know Bran is the 3ER but considering his lack of personality last season I think people also being skeptical of him  too is pretty valid).

However, as it stands, Sansa and the NL apparently believe Jon about the AOTD. He left the 10,000 strong army of the North and returned with 2 dragons and like 100,000 men.  What the hell else do they want from him? It makes Sansa and the NL look stupid when the AOTD is marching for them and Team Dany is the only hope of saving the North. Surely political genius Sansa would 1) weep with joy at the sight of a massive army that’s come to save her, 2) try to ingratiate herself to Dany and make sure Team Stark and Team Targ are close allies, and 3) suggest a Dany/Jon marriage to ensure the North is a top priority if/when Dany takes the IT and to get Jon out of her hair so she can run the North with minimal interference.

1) I'm TRYING to give Sansa the benefit of the doubt considering that while Sansa may believe that the AotD is real, she has never saw. So it is abstract to her. Until she sees it, its just not important.  However, she KNOWS Cersei, she's met Cersei, so therefore thats the enemy she focuses on.

2) Everything in this quote.  All of it.

[Growsonwalls]

If Jon and Dany do form an alliance that's based on blood as well as self-interest why should Sansa or Arya like it? Keep in mind that Sansa and Arya don't know Dany at all, and haven't followed any of her journey. I think the issue is the GoT writers keep wanting to write Sansa as some sort of mini-Cersei and it just doesn't work. Cersei has been the same since season 1 and at this point whatever she does we understand her motivations and reasonings. She's a villain, but we "get" her. Turning Sansa from a victim to villainess is such a hard stretch because neither Sophie Turner nor the writing really can pull it off. So it's annoying. I just hope Sansa, Arya, Jon and Bran have some sort of scene reconciling before they inevitably get killed off.

[James Pathak]

Excited to see how Jon Snow reacts when he hears the news he's the true king and not Mother of Dragon.

What happens, we will see 
How they react, will be amazing
The final episode, will be exciting
Hotel? Trivago

[LadyChaos]

9 hours ago, James Pathak said:

Excited to see how Jon Snow reacts when he hears the news he's the true king and not Mother of Dragon.

What happens, we will see 
How they react, will be amazing
The final episode, will be exciting
Hotel? Trivago

I think he will decide that right now is not the time to deal with that can of worms, but he will try to pull away from Dany and she will wonder if he knew all along and was just trying to get close to her to take her army from her -OR- she will say that it is not true and deny it.  Then she will probably come around and realize that Jon probably would want nothing of being a Targaryen, even if it makes him a true born son instead of a bastard.  So she will be the instigator of Jon accepting his Targaryen heritage. Though he will likely push her away, physically, until they realize she is pregnant and then he will want to marry her.

Im also wondering how the Lords and Ladies of the North will act about it all.  I suspect that they will not be happy to see Dany's army at Winterfell considering that most of them haven't seen the truth of the AotD yet; but will still begrudgingly support him for fear of losing their heads.  Then, conveniently, someone will accidentally on purpose will leak that Jon is not a Stark but a true born Targaryen and that will be it.  They will pull their support from him and throw it behind Sansa.  However before anything gets too far, the big fight in 803 happens and whoever is still standing will put their support behind Jon again.

Edited March 20, 2019 by LadyChaos

[SimoneS]

Dany's hot bodyguard is Qhono played by Staz Nair (yes, I had time on my hands). I am hoping that by some miracle that he survives the upcoming war. He is too hot to die.

Edited March 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Happy Harpy]

12 hours ago, James Pathak said:

Excited to see how Jon Snow reacts when he hears the news he's the true king and not Mother of Dragon.

Based on the trailer, he's going to cry.

[SimoneS]

22 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Based on the trailer, he's going to cry.

And brood...

[SeanC]

20 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

If Jon and Dany do form an alliance that's based on blood as well as self-interest why should Sansa or Arya like it? Keep in mind that Sansa and Arya don't know Dany at all, and haven't followed any of her journey. I think the issue is the GoT writers keep wanting to write Sansa as some sort of mini-Cersei and it just doesn't work. Cersei has been the same since season 1 and at this point whatever she does we understand her motivations and reasonings. She's a villain, but we "get" her. Turning Sansa from a victim to villainess is such a hard stretch because neither Sophie Turner nor the writing really can pull it off. So it's annoying. I just hope Sansa, Arya, Jon and Bran have some sort of scene reconciling before they inevitably get killed off.

"Villainess" isn't what they're going for.  We're supposed, I imagine, to think that this is one of those "people on the same team clash over valid concerns" scenarios that is indeed the stuff of sophisticated character drama -- the problem being that the writers are bad at that and cannot come up with convincing things for the characters to argue about without making one side look obtuse (or, ironically, sometimes they take a scenario where both sides have good arguments and act as though one side is clearly right).

[GraceK]

Do we think this is legit?

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Do we think this is legit?

Something to talk about, if nothing else.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Something to talk about, if nothing else.

Something else besides Dark Sansa or DarkDany ( hopefully) 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

Edited March 20, 2019 by GraceK

[GrailKing]

https://twitter.com/Frikidoctor

More time has come. Tomorrow, in #Frikidoctor in #Youtube all the spoilers of the 1 episode of the 8 season of #JuegodeTronos. Some chosen ones are already in it

Edited March 20, 2019 by GrailKing