Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[anamika]

34 minutes ago, nikma said:

If they use Bran every time story becomes useless.

Last time, sansa thought that bran was weird and did not know what he could do and so kept consulting with LF and fought with Arya. 

At the end, she has Bran at the trial who tells them things about LF.  Now, Sansa knows he is legit and she knows what he can do. 

Therefore following this plot to its logical conclusion, now that Sansa is aware of what Bran can do, would it not make sense for Sansa to use him and figure out what Cersei is upto? They even have Sam there who knows how to access the Bran bot. Instead she asks Tyrion. 

Once again, no one is going to ask/consult with Bran and he wont say anything until the GC is at their gates. 

So we get the unnecessary drama of every one being suspicious of everyone when its so easy to clear the air.

The plot demands that Sansa be unable to use info she now has and for Bran to do nothing useful. 

Thats the issue with show Sansa who comes off as an idiot despite being supposedly smart. She's restricted by the plot in terms of what moves she can make. 

[nikma]

It's like time-turners in Harry Potter.

Bran is too powerful and he can stop every conflict, every drama, every dilemma that characters are faceing. They can't use Bran to resolve every problem between characters, because there wouldn't be a story to tell anymore. 

That can hurt the story. That's the problem GRRM made when he decided to give such powers to Bran and when D&D decided to follow that path, without actual details from the future books how someone so powerful can function with normal people.

You have to suspend the disbelief. There is no other solution.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

 

Thats the issue with show Sansa who comes off as an idiot despite being supposedly smart. She's restricted by the plot in terms of what moves she can make. 

If nobody is asking Bran for advice all the time, the issue does not lie with Sansa but with Bran's powers in general and how everybody reacts to them.

Edited March 22, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[nikma]

The problem is that Bran has those powers. Bran could destroy every drama between characters. If everyone knows everything there is no story left to tell, no mistakes characters can make. 

And if he starts seeing the future ...lol.. it will be even worse. 

[screamin]

Thing with Bran is that his powers work in real time, as we've seen. If he wants to get information about Cersei's plans, he has to go into a trance and spend hours with his eyes rolled up watching Cersei drink to a stupor, call an audience of locals so she can sit on the Iron Throne and enjoy humbling them, gloat over what's left of the Shame Nun in the dungeon and MAYBE during that time mention something to Qyburn or Euron about her plans for WF. During that time he may miss important things happening in places he's not watching.

If the Wall has just fallen and the NK is coming, I can totally see Bran blowing off the idea of stopping his surveillance of the NK just to spy on Cersei. Cersei is nothing to him, and the NK has personally attacked and traumatized him. IMO, he will be preoccupied with the danger the NK poses and underestimate the danger of Cersei, just as Sansa does the exact opposite because she had the opposite experience.

Which leads me to wonder if the GC will go quickly North by Euron's ships, arrive quite openly at WF, saying they're the army Cersei sent...and once quartered in WF, they await the right moment (dragons sent for reconaissance, or the dead of night), set WF's granaries on fire, grab hostages and flee by ship. (They'd be vulnerable to dragons in retreat, but it's been hinted that Euron has some magic of his own). This could happen before Jaime (traveling slowly overland) can get there to warn then that Cersei is bent on double-crossing them, pregnancy or not.

[anamika]

40 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

If nobody is asking Bran for advice all the time, the issue does not lie with Sansa but with Bran's powers in general and how everybody reacts to them.

Jon/Dany do not know what Bran can do, Tyrion has nefarious plans, Arya is totally uninvolved in this plot, Sam is distraught about his brother.

Sansa is the only one who is currently suspicious of Cersei and wants to know whether she is really sending help AND she knows that Bran can access/get to information that no else can.

So instead of asking Tyrion LANNISTER if Cersei LANNISTER is being true to her word, the more logical choice would be to ask the all seeing 3ER to look it up, don't you think?

1 hour ago, nikma said:

You have to suspend the disbelief. There is no other solution.

I get that. It's just a bit annoying is all.

So did Friki mention anything about the Sansa/Tyrion relationship? Is she cold towards him? Friendly? Does she distrust him?

I think this will be an interesting relationship to watch if Sansa is doubting Cersei and Tyrion is secretly plotting with his sister.

Edited March 22, 2019 by anamika

[SeanC]

16 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon/Dany do not know what Bran can do

I think we have to assume they’re filled in on Bran being a seer.

In general I agree, though, both that the writers cannot write Bran’s powers into their narrative effectively, and that Sansa is one of the characters most prominently affected by plot constraints from taking obvious actions (like for instance, she could have just killed Littlefinger in 605 and then gone to the Valemen blaming the Boltons for it).  She certainly should be making extensive use of Bran’s surveillance powers at this point.

Edited March 22, 2019 by SeanC

[nikma]

If Friki is right about Tyrion (And I think he is) Bran will be involved with Tyrion's storyline, but later in the season.

[SimoneS]

I can't get over Sansa asking Jon if he bent the knee for the North or love in front of the Council? What is she thinking? It is so impolitic. I agree with her voicing doubts about the Lannisters though. I don't know how Tyrion or anyone can trust to do anything logical. She is the Mad Queen! Everything she has done has led to her family's destruction and her isolation.

It feels like since Littlefinger's death, Sansa's only reason for existing is to cause conflict.

Edited March 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I can't get over Sansa asking Jon if he bent the knee for the North or love in front of the Council? What is she thinking? It is so impolitic.

That’s entirely consistent with the showrunners’ theory about how the game is played:  players should be as quarrelsome and obvious as possible, that shows how cool and confident they are.

[LadyChaos]

So a thought that Im more hopeful for, then honestly expect to happen is Arya and Gendry.

I can see him getting legitimized and given the Stormlands to start over as the last of the Baratheon line, and Arya going with him.  I think after their reunion, and them fighting together as Im sure they will, he won't expect her to be a Lady, but for her to just be as she is and love her for it.  

If that can't happen, they gotta at least give me a few scenes with them being flirty, teasing, and lovey before one dies. 

Im not asking for much, I know there won't be many happy endings, but my little shipper heart needs something, especially since I'm 100% positive that Jonerys won't get a happy ending:

A little GendryxArya

A little Brienne with Jaime or Turmond

Im not asking for much, I just want to know that some of my faves found a little bit of love and happiness before their axed. 

[GrailKing]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Bran continues to be absolutely useless on this show. Other than monotonously annoy people, what's his frigging use.

Like why is Sansa asking Tyrion if Cersei can be trusted? Why not ask the 3ER? She asked Bran last season towards the end about LF for information. Why cannot she do the same now?

How would Sansa , or others hone their skills, if all they have to do is goto B.R.A.N like we goto Google, gives you the info, but you don't learn or improve on the basic skills to advance one's self.

Bran's main problem is the army of the dead and getting that info out. Sansa and Arya's would be most likely protect the rear. Sansa needs to hone her BS detector, keep going to Bran it won't improve , it will just be dependent on Bran like a drug.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

54 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon/Dany do not know what Bran can do, […] Arya is totally uninvolved in this plot,   

Re: Jon and Dany. I assume this will change once Bran tells them, that the Wall has fallen. At the very least for Jon. He has to ask Bran, how he knows, right? And anyway, if he doesn't ask Bran about the source for his knowledge, than Jon's behaviour is dictated by the plot as well.

And re Arya: She is not that uninvolved in the plot. She knows at the very least that Sansa mistrusts Dany and it's not a big leap to assume that she knows about Sansa's distrust for Cersei as well. I mean, she's around to interact with Jon, Sansa and Dany.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

3 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

How would Sansa , or others hone their skills, if all they have to do is goto B.R.A.N like we goto Google, gives you the info, but you don't learn or improve on the basic skills to advance one's self.

Bran's main problem is the army of the dead and getting that info out. Sansa and Arya's would be most likely protect the rear. Sansa needs to hone her BS detector, keep going to Bran it won't improve , it will just be dependent on Bran like a drug.

From a character and storyline point of view, you are right. But it still doesn't make sense, at least judging by the knowledge we have so far. This is a big life or death situation, surely getting all knowledge available asap has priority over "honing one's BS detector".

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

From a character and storyline point of view, you are right. But it still doesn't make sense, at least judging by the knowledge we have so far. This is a big life or death situation, surely getting all knowledge available asap has priority over "honing one's BS detector".

True, but we were wrong on how some things played out in prior years, because of missing parts, and it will be the same this year; we will just have to wait.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Therefore following this plot to its logical conclusion, now that Sansa is aware of what Bran can do, would it not make sense for Sansa to use him and figure out what Cersei is upto? They even have Sam there who knows how to access the Bran bot. Instead she asks Tyrion. 

And maybe it's like 7-7, gets info from Bran, asks Tyrion a question or two, listens to his answer and makes a decision to herself if he's lying or not.

We don't know the whole story; we got 3 weeks to find out.

[anamika]

16 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Re: Jon and Dany. I assume this will change once Bran tells them, that the Wall has fallen. At the very least for Jon. He has to ask Bran, how he knows, right? And anyway, if he doesn't ask Bran about the source for his knowledge, than Jon's behaviour is dictated by the plot as well.

And re Arya: She is not that uninvolved in the plot. She knows at the very least that Sansa mistrusts Dany and it's not a big leap to assume that she knows about Sansa's distrust for Cersei as well. I mean, she's around to interact with Jon, Sansa and Dany.

Well, Bran could have got ravens from CB telling them the wall has fallen. Remember how Sam assumed that Bran magically deduced that Jon/Dany were on their way there when it was from a raven scroll?

But again, even if Jon/Dany are informed about Bran's abilities, they think that everyone is headed their way to fight the AOTD. Why are they going to ask Bran to spy on Cersei for them? They would think of using him for fighting the AOTD.

Arya seems to be uninvolved in this at least in this episode. She is busy having her reunions.

The only character who doubts whether Cersei is holding true to her word is super smart, genius player, true leader/warrior of WF, Sansa Stark. We are constantly reminded by other characters of how much more smarter she is than her dolt brother and everyone in Westeros.

In which case, instead of asking Cersei's brother if Cersei is being honest, my opinion is that Sansa could instead ask her own brother who is now the 3ER and request that he check up on this little matter for her.

BTW, did Friki say anything about any Arya-Tyrion scenes? I would think this is a big deal and a main highlight of episode one since these characters have never shared a scene despite being main characters.

[Missrayn]

Quote

 message left by the NK (like the fact that the NK has a target, mentioned by the actor) seems to support the info provided by Boatsexbaby about the WW motivations. Since BSB and Friki disagreed about what was filmed in Seville, it's going to be interesting (it isn't impossible that both had partial info, though).

Yes, I agree I think it is possible that both have some good info. I admit to be more interesting in the NK mystery than Tyrion betrayal cause for now everything about it seem like a suicide mission for his sister and dump. What does he think will happen when jon, Dany will find out that no army is coming? I mean I do believe the GC will be at the batle but cersei for now choose not to send them

Edited March 22, 2019 by Missrayn

[Eyes High]

Update to Frikigate:

So apparently, now that HBO has had the videos taken down, while Friki can appeal, it will be HBO reviewing his appeal, not Youtube, and they have a month to respond to his appeal, which as you know will go well past the premiere date. So it's not like 2016 where Youtube will review the videos and put them back up. HBO, not Youtube, has the final say in whether the videos go back up.

Friki is now exploring other options. Maybe he'll just post his leaks on Reddit in text form and be done with it.

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Update to Frikigate:

So apparently, now that HBO has had the videos taken down, while Friki can appeal, it will be HBO reviewing his appeal, not Youtube, and they have a month to respond to his appeal, which as you know will go well past the premiere date. So it's not like 2016 where Youtube will review the videos and put them back up. HBO, not Youtube, has the final say in whether the videos go back up.

Friki is now exploring other options. Maybe he'll just post his leaks on Reddit in text form and be done with it.

This pretty much confirms they are the real deal. What gets me is how on earth did he get this information??? I have to say it’s impressive.  

[nikma]

Yeah. He said we will get inormation one way or another, so he will post them to  Free Folk or upload on some other site.

I must say it was stupid to announce day earlier that he will leak E1 of the most popular show ever, while HBO did everything in the last 20 months to protect the show. Lol

[Lady Iris]

Could somebody kindly explain this to my feeble brain. I can appreciate that HBO doesn't want spoilers to get out but if they do, generally speaking, only those who want to find the spoilers will get them after looking for them. Why is it so imperative to keep it under wraps?

[joliefaire]

5 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Could somebody kindly explain this to my feeble brain. I can appreciate that HBO doesn't want spoilers to get out but if they do, generally speaking, only those who want to find the spoilers will get them after looking for them. Why is it so imperative to keep it under wraps?

IMO, the reason is that it hypes the hype for when the episode actually does air.  I think back to the Red Wedding--SO many viewers already knew that something horrible was coming up (even if they avoided actual spoilers) that thousands of fans put together 'watch parties'  with friends to watch it together.  Even as big as the after-the-episode hype was imagine how much bigger it would have been if there'd been no leaks at all, and the Red Wedding took everyone in the world by surprise.

[Lady Iris]

1 minute ago, joliefaire said:

IMO, the reason is that it hypes the hype for when the episode actually does air.  I think back to the Red Wedding--SO many viewers already knew that something horrible was coming up (even if they avoided actual spoilers) that thousands of fans put together 'watch parties'  with friends to watch it together.  Even as big as the after-the-episode hype was imagine how much bigger it would have been if there'd been no leaks at all, and the Red Wedding took everyone in the world by surprise.

Very true. I look back at the first season about Ned and had no idea he was buying the farm. I guess I figure if people are going to look for them, they'll find the spoilers and if they don't want to then they don't see them but maybe things have a way of getting around. Thanks.

[Minneapple]

Well, the Red Wedding and Ned dying were a bit of a different story because of the books. These things had been "spoiled" in print years before. The past couple seasons are more uncharted waters. Everyone was waiting for the Rhaegar and Lyanna story, for Dany to arrive in Westeros, big plot points like that that we figure will happen in the books (maybe, if GRRM ever gets around to writing them) but we have no idea how they'll come about. And of course for the upcoming season -- the motivations of the Night King, the Army of the Dead.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Minneapple

[Wouter]

19 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

As of 8x01, Sansa knows through Bran's visions -which she's aware, without the shadow of a doubt, are true- that the Wall has fallen and the AOTD has started invading the North. She knows the NK has a dragon, too -and in 8x01 she has seen dragons. So she has enough knowledge to understand that alone, the North is facing annihilation.

From the descriptions I have seen, it would seem that Bran may dramatically reveal his vision of the NK and Viserion right in the middle of the council. If so, he may not have told Sansa or Arya about it beforehand (it's clear that Jon nor Dany know, at that point). So, at least part of Sansa's objections - and Lyanna's objections - would be voiced before this is common knowledge.

It also makes me wonder how Jon, and Dany even more, will react to a cripple suddenly sprouting this information. Will they accept/understand the three-eyed crow business? Dany will probably be impressed he is aware of Viserion though, unless the loss of Viserion (just the loss, not the NK reviving him) was already common knowledge in Winterfell.

19 hours ago, Minneapple said:

 But when Sansa dares to not act like a perfect agreeable lady, it's not acceptable.

To be honest (though I'm a fan of Sansa), this is kinda a logical criticism. Being a lady is Sansa's forte, along with being a political mastermind. At least, I think that it would be, at the equivalent point in the books. Sansa's book strength is charming other people, even those who are nominally her enemy. I doubt GRRM would write Sansa welcoming Dany in such a way; I think she would be very polite even if she secretly would wish Dany to fall death on the spot (which I don't think she would, if she knew Dany wasn't coming to capture or hurt her). I think it's rather unfortunate that D&D went another way with the character, even if I am grateful to them for actually finishing the story.

19 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Watching the video, I wasn't certain either whether Tyrion lying was based on his previous leaks or confirmed by his latest. He seemed pretty affirmative, not using oral precautions like on other parts of the spoilers, but my Spanish is quite rusty. I guess it depends whether his source this time has the full season at once, or only gets it episode per episode.

As Eyes High has stated, it seems very likely that the source is different. At the very least, there is a dramatic difference in the extent of the knowledge. I also think that Friki would leak such info as soon as he is able to, so if he got 2 or more episodes (detailed info) at once I think he would release it at once. Presumably, his (usual) source is someone involved in readying GOT episodes for Spanish broadcast on the local HBO branch. He or she seems to have outright seen the episodes, or at least a draft edit. The source for Seville was rather vague, may have been an extra or a set helper who saw and heard some things but does not have the full picture. And there's still a chance it was a HBO plant.

18 hours ago, anamika said:

This seems to be true. Apparently there are different translations of Spanish 🙂

This seems better:

Now THIS makes sense. Considering everything the North has suffered because of the Lannisters, Cersei, Tyrion and Jaime - this reaction I can understand.  I would have thought they will be more angry about Tyrion being there than Dany.

So Sansa accuses Jon of all this in front of a council of Northern houses instead of privately? That makes it even worse. Ugh.

Regarding Sam's response to the Tarly burnings looks like there are different versions.

Didn't other versions state Sansa confronts Jon in private? This makes a very large difference, a private discussion is reasonable enough even if Sansa is wrong about Dany.

17 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Not for nothing, but Jon ordered every able bodied person from 10-60, male and female alike, to learn how to fight.  Yet, Sansa clearly thought she wasn't included in that order.

She's not the only one though, Varys wasn't alone hiding in the crypts, as seen in the S8 trailer. 

It always seemed an absurd order to me, for the setting and even in modern terms. What good is a 10-year old girl going to do, or a 10-year old boy for that matter? Or a young mother? Or a cripple? Do they even have near enough weapons and armour to arm and protect their men-at-arms and knights, let alone such "rabble"? Even at the heigth of thoughtless slaughter of own population during WW1, no army pressed 10 year old girls in service. Realistically, a medieval army would protect the vulnerable civilians from the enemy, especially the ones that are (economically) valuable such as (potential) mothers and blacksmiths and so on. 

[Wouter]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I can't get over Sansa asking Jon if he bent the knee for the North or love in front of the Council? What is she thinking? It is so impolitic.

We don't know if she does so in front of the council, this is based on one translated version of Friki's video. Another version says this: "There will be a tense discussion between Sansa and Jon, in which she will ask him if he has kneed in the north or out of love, Jon will be surprised by this question.". 

Since this is mentioned separately from the council in which Bran states the NK is now really coming, and no other interaction with anyone present is mentioned (wouldn't Arya and Dany react if such things were discussed very openly!???), I doubt it is correct that this is a second "northern council" in the same episode. Maybe with "council", this particular translator only means that Sansa and Jon are having a political discussion as opposed to a reunion or a quiet family moment, but it is not in front of an audience.

[GraceK]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

t always seemed an absurd order to me, for the setting and even in modern terms. What good is a 10-year old girl going to do, or a 10-year old boy for that matter? Or a young mother?

I think it was to combat all the criticism Jons character  got in season 6  for being anti feminist. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m being serious btw. Regardless of your feelings on BOTB, a lot of reviews and “ thought pieces “ and “ podcasts “ were super annoyed that Jon didn’t acknowledge Sansa in the war council. They even gave him crap again in season 7 for embracing his King role and making decisions without asking for her approval 🙄🙄🙄 apparently he seems to be shutting her up all the time and telling her to make him a sandwich. 😂 

Anyway, I don’t think he means cripples and little children  should fight. Just able bodied men and women. Arya was around 11 when she was learning. Bran was what, 9 or 10?Anyone able to carry a sword. It does make sense. The weak and  helpless obviously have to be defended, but the ones able to defend themselves should learn, including girls.

Edited March 22, 2019 by GraceK

[GraceK]

Anyone also really excited though to see Danys reaction to all the magical Starks? Seriously, she’s so used to having Dragons and being seen as this mystical Goddess, but then she rolls up into Winterfell, sees a huge dire wolf, a boy who is a godlike seer, a girl who is a dead eyed assassin with the ability to change faces, and a Queenly ginger who is completely unfazed . And that’s her boyfriends family. 😂😂😂😂im actually really excited .

Edited March 22, 2019 by GraceK

[Brn2bwild]

19 hours ago, GrailKing said:

d. Meeting in the Great Hall (or whatever) Jon in the centre, Sansa and Dany flanking him (Dany looks cold) – Jon introduces Dany. The Umber boy is there to offer his men. Jon tells everyone the NK has Viserion and the Wall has fallen. We get Lyanna Mormont saying Jon is still KiTN but he will tell them that they need allies and only together they will survive.

There's no Lyanna-Jorah scene in the first episode, I take it?

[joliefaire]

24 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

There's no Lyanna-Jorah scene in the first episode, I take it?

Hmmm, I thought I read that when Lady Lyanna is all angry about Dany being there, Jorah goes over and talks quietly with her, calming her down.

[WindyNights]

12 hours ago, nikma said:

It's like time-turners in Harry Potter.

Bran is too powerful and he can stop every conflict, every drama, every dilemma that characters are faceing. They can't use Bran to resolve every problem between characters, because there wouldn't be a story to tell anymore. 

That can hurt the story. That's the problem GRRM made when he decided to give such powers to Bran and when D&D decided to follow that path, without actual details from the future books how someone so powerful can function with normal people.

You have to suspend the disbelief. There is no other solution.

I don't think it is problem for GRRM's story because Bran's powers are going to likely be involved heavily in the conclusion and what comes after part of the story. 

A lot of lazy theorists don't know what to do with Bran so they jump to killing him off.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

Anyone also really excited though to see Danys reaction to all the magical Starks? Seriously, she’s so used to having Dragons and being seen as this mystical Goddess, but then she rolls up into Winterfell, sees a huge dire wolf, a boy who is a godlike seer, a girl who is a dead eyed assassin with the ability to change faces, and a Queenly ginger who is completely unfazed . And that’s her boyfriends family. 😂😂😂😂im actually really excited .

She has dragons and two armies that between them would make mincemeat out of anyone the Northerners could throw at them. I think she’s good. She also has plenty of experience with magic and sorcerers, and is not only magical herself but the mother of two magical creatures, so I doubt an oversized wolf or a face-changer would give her pause. I doubt much would impress someone with Dany’s CV. The Mother of Dragons is a tough cookie.

And ultimately, that “queenly ginger who is completely unfazed” is an annoying little sister who’s desperately insecure and covers it up by acting bitchy, the “dead eyed assassin” is a little sister who worships her big brother and thinks dragons are the coolest shit of all time, and the “godlike seer” is a robot who’s above it all for the most part. If Dany sees anything in that bunch to intimidate her, I’d be surprised.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

She has dragons and two armies that between them would make mincemeat out of anyone the Northerners could throw at them. I think she’s good. She also has plenty of experience with magic and sorcerers, and is not only magical herself but the mother of two magical creatures, so I doubt an oversized wolf or a face-changer would give her pause. I doubt much would impress someone with Dany’s CV. The Mother of Dragons is a tough cookie.

And ultimately, that “queenly ginger who is completely unfazed” is an annoying little sister who’s desperately insecure and covers it up by acting bitchy, the “dead eyed assassin” is a little sister who worships her big brother and thinks dragons are the coolest shit of all time, and the “godlike seer” is a robot who’s above it all for the most part. If Dany sees anything in that bunch to intimidate her, I’d be surprised.

Whoa your preaching to the choir here. I’ve been an adamant Dany supporter. I’m just saying, the Starks aren’t lightweights and i think it will be cool for her to meet some other badass mystical counterparts. Yeesh. It’s exciting that’s all. They have underplayed how awesome Ghost is IMO. I didn’t say she would be intimidated.

[WindyNights]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

She has dragons and two armies that between them would make mincemeat out of anyone the Northerners could throw at them. I think she’s good. She also has plenty of experience with magic and sorcerers, and is not only magical herself but the mother of two magical creatures, so I doubt an oversized wolf or a face-changer would give her pause. I doubt much would impress someone with Dany’s CV. The Mother of Dragons is a tough cookie.

And ultimately, that “queenly ginger who is completely unfazed” is an annoying little sister who’s desperately insecure and covers it up by acting bitchy, the “dead eyed assassin” is a little sister who worships her big brother and thinks dragons are the coolest shit of all time, and the “godlike seer” is a robot who’s above it all for the most part. If Dany sees anything in that bunch to intimidate her, I’d be surprised.

I could believe Bran is capable of intimidating her or anyone really. I mean he's near omniscient and can control people. 

[anamika]

13 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Whoa your preaching to the choir here. I’ve been an adamant Dany supporter. I’m just saying, the Starks aren’t lightweights and i think it will be cool for her to meet some other badass mystical counterparts. Yeesh. It’s exciting that’s all. They have underplayed how awesome Ghost is IMO. I didn’t say she would be intimidated.

The problem being that Ghost is missing in episode one and for two seasons and apparently Jon is too busy riding Rhaegal to bother with introducing Dany to him or spending some time with his doggy.

As for Dany being excited about the Starks - Given their cold reception of her in the North, I am not sure why she should be?  Bran and Arya don't meet her. Sansa is cold, snarky and disapproving. None of the Starks stand up for Jon in the great hall and he is left alone to defend his actions. Dany is more supportive of Jon than the Starks at this point. I don't think Dany will be having a high opinion of his family and she's met more dangerous mystical counterparts in Essos. 

I am hoping there's more to episode one than what Friki has told us. There seems to be big gaps between choppy scenes and important character interactions left out.

Edited March 23, 2019 by anamika

[LadyChaos]

Someone help!!! I heard 801 was leaked.  Was it true???

[nikma]

It is.

[LadyChaos]

13 minutes ago, nikma said:

It is.

OMG! Can you message me where?

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, Wouter said:

We don't know if she does so in front of the council, this is based on one translated version of Friki's video. Another version says this: "There will be a tense discussion between Sansa and Jon, in which she will ask him if he has kneed in the north or out of love, Jon will be surprised by this question.". 

Since this is mentioned separately from the council in which Bran states the NK is now really coming, and no other interaction with anyone present is mentioned (wouldn't Arya and Dany react if such things were discussed very openly!???), I doubt it is correct that this is a second "northern council" in the same episode. Maybe with "council", this particular translator only means that Sansa and Jon are having a political discussion as opposed to a reunion or a quiet family moment, but it is not in front of an audience.

I really hope that the translation is incorrect or incomplete and that  Sansa poses the question when she is alone with Jon. 

[GrailKing]

On 3/21/2019 at 9:14 PM, anamika said:

So Sansa accuses Jon of all this in front of a council of Northern houses instead of privately? That makes it even worse. Ugh.

I took it as in private or just her Jon Danny and Davos maybe, not in front of the whole North.

From another translation :

Next scene: Sansa keeps being annoying; she confronts Jon about bending the knee for love]

But, of course, life goes on in Winterfell, as after this first Northern Assembly, Jon has to talk to Sansa and you already know that the political conversations between Jon and Sansa do not go so well. Because Sansa always has the feeling that he does not listen to her, and that Sansa’s compromise is with the North, and that Sansa’s compromise it to remind Jon that he is the King in the North. And that he has presented a foreign Queen.

But, of course, Jon on the other hand has to make Sansa see that they need allies and that right now their most loyal ally is the Eyrie. But, of course, remember that talk between Littlefinger and Sansa, when Sansa finds out that Jon has bent the knee to Daenerys, and that cannot stay in the air. As she needs to provide explanations [to the Northerners?] she needs to ask the following.

She needs to ask “Jon, I see you so sweet with Daenerys, and you have bent the knee. You are telling me about the allies. You are telling me that you need that this Queen comes to the North. You bent the knee for the North or you bent the knee for love?” And you know that Jon puts a hard [in English” face. For the North or for Love, I say to you. Pure Jonerys.

I could C & P this version also, if people want to compare.

Edited March 23, 2019 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

Be careful NSW:

https://www.xtube.com/video-watch/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-1-39537781

Edited March 23, 2019 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

OMG! Can you message me where?

23 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I really hope that the translation is incorrect or incomplete and that  Sansa poses the question when she is alone with Jon. 

I found it from Redditt NSW site so  be careful.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, joliefaire said:

Hmmm, I thought I read that when Lady Lyanna is all angry about Dany being there, Jorah goes over and talks quietly with her, calming her down.

It wasn't in the video. Jorah is only mentioned as present when Dany tells Sam.

In 7x05, Jon said "Bran saw the NK and his army marching towards Eastwatch". Since Bran writes from WF, I always assumed that Jon and Dany knew about his powers.

11 hours ago, Wouter said:

From the descriptions I have seen, it would seem that Bran may dramatically reveal his vision of the NK and Viserion right in the middle of the council. If so, he may not have told Sansa or Arya about it beforehand (it's clear that Jon nor Dany know, at that point). So, at least part of Sansa's objections - and Lyanna's objections - would be voiced before this is common knowledge.

According to the video (6:40) the first council is organized because of Bran's info about the Wall and the dragons ("esto se merece una gran assemblea nortena"). There's Daenerys presentation, a review of the state of the Northern troops (not good) and Jon's other preocupation, apart from the troops, is warning "everyone, with ravens" that the threat's here, the wall has fallen and the NK has a dragon ("su preocupacion es de avisar a todos con cuervos de que ya llega la amenaza" etc.) (7:25). Then, Friki talks about the Northerners' reaction, Lyanna Mormont reminding Jon that they elected him not Daenerys, Jon "we need allies to face the threat of the WW", Tyrion speech announcing Cersei = upheaval, Jon  "we need allies to face the threat of the WW", end of the council.

So unless Friki placed the Northerner's "reaction" in a non-linear way, the night dragon and the fall of the wall are known to the Northern assembly in the beginning of the meeting. 

Sansa is furious that Jon "brought not only Daenerys but the Lannisters", Friki doesn't specify if it's in public or in private, but then he says "it will be the first of many assemblies"; so it could be either at the end of, or just after the meeting. Nevertheless, it's definitely after she knows about the NK already invading the North with his dragon.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

So given Friki seems to think that there is sexual tension between Arya and Gendry in ep 1, do we think Maisie was trolling when she gave that recent interview saying Arya is asexual?  I think it was that same interview where Sophie said something about Sansa learning to love herself and not others, so could she have been trolling too?  Maybe both Stark girls do end the series paired up?

[nikma]

Yeah, Maisie was trolling. I even think sex scene between them is possible.

[anamika]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

So given Friki seems to think that there is sexual tension between Arya and Gendry in ep 1, do we think Maisie was trolling when she gave that recent interview saying Arya is asexual?  I think it was that same interview where Sophie said something about Sansa learning to love herself and not others, so could she have been trolling too?  Maybe both Stark girls do end the series paired up?

There's noh time for that.

I think there will be some Arya-Gendry scenes and they will reconnect making Gendry's inevitable death even more painful.

So if Jaime is not present in this episode, the number of episodes he is in - 4 - named in that lawsuit could very well be true.

In which case Jaime will be absent in one more episode. Since he gets to WF in episode two, I think it's possible Jaime is not going to be in the last episode.

If the Cersei plot is resolved in episode 5 with the big battle in KL, it's possible Jaime bites it in that ep taking down Cersei.

And then in the final episode the good guys deal with the NK on Viserion at KL and the last 20 minutes will be the denouement.

I am still not sure what they are doing with Tyrion. His support for Cersei continues to be baffling. One interpretation of Friki's vid stated it this way:

Quote

Additional concerns regarding Cersei sending the Lannister armies. Sansa feels it's a trap. Tyrion tries to convince people (esp Sansa) that Cersei "has changed and can be trusted" Suspicions of Tyrion begin.

I remember some leaks a while back of Tyrion opening the gates to the GC and letting them in etc. I am not sure how all this works if Jaime gets there.

Or it could be that this entire Tyrion betrayal plot - which the show seems to be pushing - is not actually what it seems to be and is not happening and Friki is wrong about what was filmed in Seville.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-03-11/game-of-thrones-season-8-tormund-and-beric-survive-ice-dragon-attack/

Quote

For his part, Dormer said he was just happy to continue bringing the regularly resurrected Beric Dondarrion (appropriately) to life, especially considering the character’s considerably earlier death in George RR Martin’s source novels.

“I’m very happy,” Dormer said, before referencing a book storyline where Stark matriarch Catelyn (played by Michelle Fairley in the series) is resurrected instead of him and becomes a murderous vigilante.

“Because it’s different in the books: Beric gives his life, he gives the kiss of life to Lady Stoneheart. And he dies. And then she becomes the leader of the Brotherhood.

“Thankfully, we did it differently from the books and so I’ve still got a career,” he joked.

I think Beric is giving the kiss of life to someone next season. Possibly Jon given their developing relationship last season and all their conversations on life, death, the Lord of light and what their purpose was.

Edited March 23, 2019 by anamika

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

So given Friki seems to think that there is sexual tension between Arya and Gendry in ep 1, do we think Maisie was trolling when she gave that recent interview saying Arya is asexual?  I think it was that same interview where Sophie said something about Sansa learning to love herself and not others, so could she have been trolling too?  Maybe both Stark girls do end the series paired up?

Of course she was trolling. Maisie and Sophie together joke all the time during junkets.

Interview of Maisie from the very end of September 2017 (so she already had read the script for S8).

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/09/29/interview-maisie-williams-reveals-her-hope-for-aryas-fate-much-more/

Her "hopes" seem to fit with what we know of 8x01. Happy ending or sad ending, methinks that Arya gets herself a nice hunk at some point during the last season.

Sansa, I don't know. I'm this close to believing that D&D gave her Jeyne Poole's story in (a small) part because she'll end up not paired, and what she went through would "justify" her refusing even a political union (since there are different parts of the fandom that are hell-bent on her getting hitched, for different reasons).

Edited March 23, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[whateverdgaf]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

.

So if Jaime is not present in this episode, the number of episodes he is in - 4 - named in that lawsuit could very well be true.

In which case Jaime will be absent in one more episode. Since he gets to WF in episode two, I think it's possible Jaime is not going to be in the last episode.

If the Cersei plot is resolved in episode 5 with the big battle in KL, it's possible Jaime bites it in that ep taking down Cersei.

There was a second page to that contract that showed Nik was paid for six episodes, however the main actors are paid for all the episodes in the season. The lawsuit tells us nothing about how many episodes Jaime is in. 

I reckon they are saving Jaime's arrival until episode 2 because they don't want to overshadow his arrival at Winterfell with Dany's arrival and vice versa. 

[SimoneS]

Episode one is also setting up Jaime's arrival at Winterfell without the Lannister army is being set up as a devastating blow to Daenerys and Tyrion's credibility. We see Jaime in the council room and fighting in the trailer, but honestly, if Dany was a real life ruler she would lock both him and Tyrion up.