S24.E11: The Finale Part 2

[calipiano81]

26 minutes ago, marykat71702 said:

Yes. Yes, they do. Them trying so hard is what makes people want to root for them. If they didn't try, people wouldn't care and therefore wouldn't vote for them. 

But if people admit they are voting based on personality, the personality is still there whether the celeb dances or not.

[Toonces464]

1 minute ago, Uke said:

Wasn't it Rashad's sister who was so certain Rashad couldn't dance?  

Wasn't this Calvin?

[calipiano81]

3 minutes ago, Uke said:

Wasn't it Rashad's sister who was so certain Rashad couldn't dance?  

That was Calvin Johnson's sister from S23.

[Uke]

16 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

lmao... Seriously, now I really want the dirt on what went down with those two. 

I don't know but after elimination, Sharna said she hadn't had any contact with him (interview at a movie red carpet).  And Nick Carter, being asked to dish in an interview, said there was no showmance, "just the opposite".  Just drips and drabs I've picked up on on SM.  Sharna probably needs a little time to pass before spilling the beans.  But yea, I'm curious too. 

10 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Wasn't this Calvin?

 

6 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

That was Calvin Johnson's sister from S23.

Ahh yes.  I knew it was somebody's sister.

[Uke]

13 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

But if people admit they are voting based on personality, the personality is still there whether the celeb dances or not.

How would the celebs know if their votes were based on personality or on something else?  I still say there is value in the effort.  

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, Uke said:

I don't know but after elimination, Sharna said she hadn't had any contact with him (interview at a movie red carpet).  And Nick Carter, being asked to dish in an interview, said there was no showmance, "just the opposite".  Just drips and drabs I've picked up on on SM.  Sharna probably needs a little time to pass before spilling the beans.  But yea, I'm curious too. 

Yeah I actually know all this because I posted about it on a previous page. I saw the red carpet interview with Sharna which I found interesting when she said that. And it was Nick Viall, Peta's partner, who in an interview said that it was actually the opposite, when asked about the dating rumors between Sharna and Bonner.

[calipiano81]

12 minutes ago, Uke said:

How would the celebs know if their votes were based on personality or on something else?  I still say there is value in the effort.  

It just seems like the contestants on this show, if they want to win, would have better results if they spent more time and concentrated on making sure they showed an outgoing, positive personality, planned out the best backstories to include in their packages, made friends with everyone on the cast...basically everything that is non-dance related. Dancing is the least important factor in winning DWTS after all.

Edited May 25, 2017 by calipiano81

[Uke]

47 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah I actually know all this because I posted about it on a previous page. I saw the red carpet interview with Sharna which I found interesting when she said that. And it was Nick Viall, Peta's partner, who in an interview said that it was actually the opposite, when asked about the dating rumors between Sharna and Bonner.

Oh! LOL! Is that where I saw it! I lose track sometimes.  Well, thank you!

[Uke]

41 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

It just seems like the contestants on this show, if they want to win, would have better results if they spent more time and concentrated on making sure they showed an outgoing, positive personality, planned out the best backstories to include in their packages, made friends with everyone on the cast...basically everything that is non-dance related. Dancing is the least important factor in winning DWTS after all.

True enough!  I've always thought their contracts should come with an FAQ telling them what to do and not to do.  But tptb have always left that to the pros (and pro's admin or team) so there's an inequity in how the stars are brought on board and informed about how the show works and how to best survive.  

[friendperidot]

A couple of things. There have been celebrities who refuse to put in much effort, Master P, for example, he went on too long, but it was a trend then to "vote for the worst", I think that's changed since his season, I think season 3? People with large voting fan bases still do well, whether I like them or not. I am happy Rashad won because after Nancy was eliminated, I didn't give a fig. Even though I didn't think she was going to win, I was still irritated, my problem, I'll learn to live with it. lol. I like Val, I even liked Maks up until the past couple of seasons. But I never warmed up to Normani. I thought she was a good dancer, it was just her or maybe all the people who kept saying on social media that she had it in the bag because she had such a huge fan base. I was surprised by her placing 3rd. David, seems like a very nice man, he's quite charming and I'm glad MLB finally had a contestant, but I didn't care much for his dancing, I did see improvement and he did learn the choreography. He didn't always execute it well, but he put in the time and effort. Rashad, I enjoyed most of his dances, he did work on a lot of the little things with his hands and arms to finish off his moves. I noticed it, I enjoyed it.

And in a completely different subject, mark me down as one who misses Dance Center. I don't follow sports, I didn't know who Kenny Mayne (not sure of the spelling) was until he went out on his first dance of his season. But I enjoyed that little, goofy segment. I didn't know who Jerry Rice was either. I really and truly don't follow sports. But over the years, I have enjoyed him with Kenny and Len in all their glitter makeup glory. I wish they'd bring it back now and then.

[rollacoaster]

The show should create a more even playing field by only having contestants on with no real/formal dance training, then we can watch them learn from scratch. 

9 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

It just seems like the contestants on this show, if they want to win, would have better results if they spent more time and concentrated on making sure they showed an outgoing, positive personality, planned out the best backstories to include in their packages, made friends with everyone on the cast...basically everything that is non-dance related. Dancing is the least important factor in winning DWTS after all.

So true for this show. A shame it has to be that damned cookie-cutter. Personally, I always hate to be shown the contestant back stories on talent based competitions. I don't care, show me your talent. I don't need contestants to be ass-kissing politicians or have a sobb story. I need them to put in a good effort, build skills, and show some performance quality on the dance floor. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by rollacoaster
Cuz autocorrect sucks.

[boyznkatz]

15 hours ago, smiley13 said:

Sharna is no where near the teacher and choreographer that Lindsay and Emma are.  The show has given her multiple chances with talented partners and she does not produce.  Her worst issue is her tendency to trash everything up.

Hopefully the producers will wise up and realize that they struck gold with both Emma and Lindsay and stop trying to make Sharna happen.

I agree. She isn't Cheryl or Kym or even Peta. Her choreography does look trashy. She couldn't even get to the finals with the biggest ringer of all time (Charlie) or a massive fanbase ringer like Antonio Brown.

Bring Kym back and give her a contender. Maybe an older gentleman who has some smooth moves like Tommy Chong.

[spanana]

13 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

The show should create a more even playing field by only having contestants on with no real/formal dance training, then we can watch them learn from scratch.

I will defend TPTB a bit here in I think that is near impossible.  Because many people in the entertainment industry, particularly the female half, have at least some sort of movement training.  In an effort to get cast and be seen as a jack of all trades, entertainers are asked to do a little bit of everything, which quite often includes dance.  Plus I think if you cast out the major ringers, like a Heather, then the bar of what it means to be a ringer just gets lowered for the audience.  So anyone who has ever taken a handful of dance classes is now a ringer.  I took casual jazz/tap/ballet classes as a kid like many girls do, but does taking dance 1x a week make me a ringer despite the fact that I haven't done it in 10-15 years and was never very good?

Quote

Yes. Yes, they do. Them trying so hard is what makes people want to root for them. If they didn't try, people wouldn't care and therefore wouldn't vote for them. 

I agree with this.  I think "trying hard" is part of a celeb's personality on the show.  Should they focus on other things as well? Sure.  Though keeping in mind that the show can also choose to edit someone however they would like so your best laid plans could get rerouted if TPTB want to give a celeb/pro a different edit than what the celeb/pro want.  One example to me might be Charlie White.  It's been alluded to that the show wanted Charlie/Sharna to go a different route than they were comfortable doing and voila, the show decided he wasn't important to them and put all their eggs in the Meryl basket.

But I'd argue that if David hadn't been shown to try as hard as he did, despite not being a great dancer, even if everything else about his personality was the same--I don't think he would have gotten quite so far.  The general audience loves hard workers.  There is this fine line on the show of needing to show that you take the show seriously and are putting in the effort, without taking it too seriously.  I think part of David's charm to some was that he continued to put in the work and take it seriously even though he knew he didn't have the dance talent. 

Also for what it's worth, I think part of Rashad's win was also him walking that line perfectly of somebody who works hard and puts in the effort, but also clearly was having fun and not taking himself or the show too seriously.

Edited May 25, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

11 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

So maybe that 'innocent' grab at the beginning of the season wasn't so innocent. And Sharna was just trying to be a good team player by pretending everything was fine. I think we got a hint that it wasn't so fine in that week when he said he wanted to slap her butt (and the butt of the other trio member). Sharna paused a pretty long time before responding in the negative, like she was trying to find the nicest way to tell him off while still preserving their ability to be teammates, at least in front of the cameras.

She's the one who staunchly defended him when people criticized him on instagram, though. If she was scared of losing her job, she could have just said nothing. She was so defensive, though, that people would naturally assume it was innocent, even if it wasn't.

I guess she bugs me because she is a big mouth like the C-brothers and then gets mad when people are offended. And like them, her choreography isn't all that and a bag of chips, yet the show keeps trying to make her happen. Time for all of them to go.

[saber5055]

Quote: "Sometimes those celebs turn out to be so endearing or have so many fans that they don't leave as fast as some might like." Yes, because they turn out to be so LIKABLE. And they smiled even though they were told that would ruin their chances for a gold medal.

[Toonces464]

2 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree. She isn't Cheryl or Kym or even Peta. Her choreography does look trashy. She couldn't even get to the finals with the biggest ringer of all time (Charlie) or a massive fanbase ringer like Antonio Brown.

Again, I really don't think you can blame Sharna for what happened with Charlie. He was sacrificed at the altar of Maks.

26 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I guess she bugs me because she is a big mouth like the C-brothers and then gets mad when people are offended. And like them, her choreography isn't all that and a bag of chips, yet the show keeps trying to make her happen. Time for all of them to go.

I couldn't stand Sharna when she was in the troupe with all her mugging for the camera and that annoying wink. I liked her during her first season because I thought she did a good job with Andy Dick. Since then I waffle back and forth on her. I realized the other night I would like her a whole lot better if she wasn't part of the fam because they rub off on her in a way I really don't like. Just like Peta.....I've never liked her but I can't even stomach the sight of her as part of the fam.

[Pink ranger]

19 minutes ago, spanana said:

I will defend TPTB a bit here in I think that is near impossible.  Because many people in the entertainment industry, particularly the female half, have at least some sort of movement training.  In an effort to get cast and be seen as a jack of all trades, entertainers are asked to do a little bit of everything, which quite often includes dance.  Plus I think if you cast out the major ringers, like a Heather, then the bar of what it means to be a ringer just gets lowered for the audience.  So anyone who has ever taken a handful of dance classes is now a ringer.  I took casual jazz/tap/ballet classes as a kid like many girls do, but does taking dance 1x a week make me a ringer despite the fact that I haven't done it in 10-15 years and was never very good?

 

There are some fields of celebrity that don't require dance training; News anchors, TV presenters, Actors, Sports ( aside from gymnastics or dance) , park and bark singers, instrument playing musicians. 

If they build a season of contestants from only these kinds of backgrounds then cry's of there being a ringer would be minor if nonexistent.

May I ask who was labelled a ringer for only having some childhood dance lessons? I didn't watch every season. 

[boyznkatz]

23 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Again, I really don't think you can blame Sharna for what happened with Charlie. He was sacrificed at the altar of Maks.

I couldn't stand Sharna when she was in the troupe with all her mugging for the camera and that annoying wink. I liked her during her first season because I thought she did a good job with Andy Dick. Since then I waffle back and forth on her. I realized the other night I would like her a whole lot better if she wasn't part of the fam because they rub off on her in a way I really don't like. Just like Peta.....I've never liked her but I can't even stomach the sight of her as part of the fam.

I know Charlie was never going to beat Meryl...err...I mean Maks,  or Amy...err...I mean Derek, but he couldn't beat James Maslow and Candace Bure? I think Sharna was just beaten by Peta, who knew how to play to James's teenybopper fans, and Mark, who knew how to play to Candace's nostalgia/conservative fans. I don't even remember any of Charlie's routines except the Mary Poppins one (now that was good choreo by Sharna).

I agree, I liked Sharna with Andy Dick. The C-brothers probably did rub off her in a bad way. I don't mind Peta...just feel sorry for her. Imagine being married to Maks!

[bealled]

I agree that it's annoying when contestants are criticized for taking dance classes growing up. I feel like a huge segment of females grew up doing some type of dance, but it doesn't make you a dancer. I did dance for around 10 years growing up, but I was not any good. I'm 25 and probably stopped at 14. It's been 10 years since I did it. I guess I remember some aspects but not enough to consider myself this great dancer (far from it). I don't even enjoy dancing in the club. Plus ballroom really does look completely different than your traditional ballet, tap or jazz.

I don't think Rashad should get extra praise for putting in 100+ extra hours. I think that shows his attitude and work ethic, but from personal experience I get a bit annoyed by people being praised for things like that. At my work I've had coworkers praised for getting out tons of work, yet they would spend a lot of overtime doing the work. Without taking overtime I was often getting the same amount of work done. Am I not a hard worker because I didn't decide to do extra hours? I would say I use my core time more wisely so I don't need to put in extra time for more work because I already got what is needed done. It's just one of those things though, the training hours, that really should vary contestant to contestant. Some contestants would need to do extra to really get the moves down, some may not need as many hours to learn the dance and get the moves down. I'm neutral on the topic. I guess it is good Rashad put in the extra time to make sure he learned but it doesn't make me automatically view him as a harder worker. I think all of the final 3 were hard workers. I would say it may show he wanted the win more than the others though.

[spanana]

21 minutes ago, Pink ranger said:

There are some fields of celebrity that don't require dance training; News anchors, TV presenters, Actors, Sports ( aside from gymnastics or dance) , park and bark singers, instrument playing musicians. 

If they build a season of contestants from only these kinds of backgrounds then cry's of there being a ringer would be minor if nonexistent.

May I ask who was labelled a ringer for only having some childhood dance lessons? I didn't watch every season. 

I think you would be surprised to find that a lot of tv presenters and actors have some dance training.  Even if they are actors first and foremost, part of being an actor is making yourself as bookable as possible and having a hand in everything.   It's just part of the business.  Lots of actors dabble in dance so they can put it on their resumes as a skill.

Cries of ringer really change season to season.  I can't off the top of my head remember, but it's happened.  I do remember for instance people wanting to label Drew Lachey a ringer because he was in a boy band despite the fact that he was in a boy band that did absolutely no dancing (and yes, I've seen 98 Degrees live).   Or even last season, Marilu was supposedly a ringer to some degree because she had been on Broadway and danced when she was younger, despite the fact that she publicly admitted she hadn't taken a dance class since before Laurie Hernandez was born.  If you have ever moved on camera at any point in your life, you are labelled.

[dcubed]

10 minutes ago, spanana said:

(and yes, I've seen 98 Degrees live).

I'm sorry :) 

[Toonces464]

28 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I think Sharna was just beaten by Peta, who knew how to play to James's teenybopper fans, and Mark, who knew how to play to Candace's nostalgia/conservative fans.

I agree about Mark but let's be honest, Peta showmanced James just as much as Maks showmanced Meryl. It just didn't get the same kind of attention because she wasn't as big a deal as Maks.

[realdancemom]

3 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree. She isn't Cheryl or Kym or even Peta. Her choreography does look trashy. She couldn't even get to the finals with the biggest ringer of all time (Charlie) or a massive fanbase ringer like Antonio Brown.

Bring Kym back and give her a contender. Maybe an older gentleman who has some smooth moves like Tommy Chong.

Antonio is a case where viewers do want to see celebrities putting in hard work.  I think the show wanted Sharna to win and Antonio has the big football fanbase.  I don't think the show thought that Rashad had the big of a base because he wasn't currently playing for a team. 

However, during switch up week, Peta (or whoever the switch-up pro was) called Sharna to say that Antonio was not there and he was an hour late already.  Sharna said that was typical.  I think that's a turn off to viewers. 

Sharna has admitted that she made mistakes with Charlie in terms of choreography.  It was her first ringer.  His packages were also pleasant but we didn't know that much about him. 

[kitcloudkicker]

1 hour ago, Pink ranger said:

May I ask who was labelled a ringer for only having some childhood dance lessons? I didn't watch every season. 

Bethany Mota got some blowback for being on her 6th grade dance team for like, a semester. The kind that meet a few times a week and do terrible hip hop at middle school assemblies. Bindi got called a ringer for bouncing around a bit in those awkward Jungle Girl dances that her zoo puts on. Ginger Zee for being on a Pom squad at some point in her youth. 

ETA: The common denominator there was usually people who hate Derek, or people who hate Val. And the people defending the first two were accusing the last one, and vice versa, with little to no self awareness. (If you've already decided on your conclusion, you'll find whatever evidence you need to support it, and its ridiculous both ways. But people will go to what seems like any lengths to accuse others of being ringers especially if they seem them as a threat to their faves. The argument is never gonna go away.)

Edited May 25, 2017 by kitcloudkicker

[majormama]

As far as the Sharna/Bonner showmance goes, they made a huge deal out of it the first episode. They apparently had a clear reaction to each other on first meeting, and they played it up with close ups of their entwined hands and nearly kissing in the sunset. And then we never heard another word about it the entire rest of the show. I don't know if that was a reaction to grope-gate, or if there was conflict between them, or what. But other than the first episode, I would not consider them to have had a showmance.

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, bealled said:

I agree that it's annoying when contestants are criticized for taking dance classes growing up. I feel like a huge segment of females grew up doing some type of dance, but it doesn't make you a dancer. I did dance for around 10 years growing up, but I was not any good. I'm 25 and probably stopped at 14. It's been 10 years since I did it. I guess I remember some aspects but not enough to consider myself this great dancer (far from it). I don't even enjoy dancing in the club. Plus ballroom really does look completely different than your traditional ballet, tap or jazz.

I don't think Rashad should get extra praise for putting in 100+ extra hours. I think that shows his attitude and work ethic, but from personal experience I get a bit annoyed by people being praised for things like that. At my work I've had coworkers praised for getting out tons of work, yet they would spend a lot of overtime doing the work. Without taking overtime I was often getting the same amount of work done. Am I not a hard worker because I didn't decide to do extra hours? I would say I use my core time more wisely so I don't need to put in extra time for more work because I already got what is needed done. It's just one of those things though, the training hours, that really should vary contestant to contestant. Some contestants would need to do extra to really get the moves down, some may not need as many hours to learn the dance and get the moves down. I'm neutral on the topic. I guess it is good Rashad put in the extra time to make sure he learned but it doesn't make me automatically view him as a harder worker. I think all of the final 3 were hard workers. I would say it may show he wanted the win more than the others though.

I agree, I took dance lessons as a child, but no way could I last a week on this show. Most little girls I knew took ballet, but if I saw most of those people now, I doubt they would even remember what they did.

As for being hard workers, I'm sure most of the people on this show work their asses off, even the people who got eliminated early. It's annoying when the pros act like their partner is the one who put in most of the work. 

[realdancemom]

Glad Heather got to shine in the girls' pro dance and Witney did a great job choregraphing.  Watching Bonner dance during the finals made me more upset that he lasted so long.  Instead of dances from him, we could have seen more dances from Heather and Nancy.  I predicted the top four but thought that Heather and Nancy were going to fight for 5th and 6th place.  I also wish that it was Simone in the finals instead of David.  Lindsay did a great job for him but I would have loved to see a Sasha and Simone freestyle.  I don't even care if it would have had more gymnastics than dance.  Actually, Simone could have even replaced Normani since Val didn't do a great freestyle for her.  Then maybe, both Normani and Heather could have been in the girls' pro dance.

[sinycalone]

I am still amazed when I see comments posted (not necessarily here...I'm including at EW, TvLine, etc.) when I see people horrified because DWTS has become just a popularity contest.  As others have pointed here, it's ALWAYS been a popularity contest for the viewers.  They may have different reasons for voting, but it boils down to supporting the celeb you've enjoyed the most during the season.

[McManda]

4 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Just like Peta.....I've never liked her but I can't even stomach the sight of her as part of the fam.

For me, my like/dislike for Peta depends solely on her partner. I remember disliking her a lot with Donald  Driver and hated her showmance with James Maslow, but I really enjoyed her with Nick.

Sharna, on the other hand, seems to either get better personality partners or just presents them better. I loved the way she handled Andy Dick, and her partnerships with Charlie and Nick were delightful. Her other partners were, for me at least, inoffensive. I find that if anything I dislike Sharna's choreography, especially when it feels like she's out of ideas and resorts to club grind. But then I'm torn, because she also does memorable things I liked, like Andy Dick's jazz routine, his simple Viennese waltz, or Nick Carter's Viennese waltz.

If I had to choose I'd choose Sharna, but I do kind of hope that she either slows down or maybe takes a season off to find her creativity again.

[smiley13]

I would much rather see Peta than Sharna.  The only season I disliked Peta was the All-Star season with Gilles.  There has never been a season or partner where I liked Sharna.   Anything with Andy Dick was the worst because he is such a repulsive person.

Peta and Nick were a good partnership this season.  I do not watch The Bachelor so I had no pre-conceived notion about him.  

I would love to see Sharna leave the show.  When you have Lindsay, Emma, Witney and Peta as pros that is a good group.  I loved having Kym back even though it was a short time.  But please do not bring back Allison.  In an ideal season, we would get back Edyta and/or Karina.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, McManda said:

For me, my like/dislike for Peta depends solely on her partner. I remember disliking her a lot with Donald  Driver and hated her showmance with James Maslow, but I really enjoyed her with Nick.

Sharna, on the other hand, seems to either get better personality partners or just presents them better. I loved the way she handled Andy Dick, and her partnerships with Charlie and Nick were delightful. Her other partners were, for me at least, inoffensive. I find that if anything I dislike Sharna's choreography, especially when it feels like she's out of ideas and resorts to club grind. But then I'm torn, because she also does memorable things I liked, like Andy Dick's jazz routine, his simple Viennese waltz, or Nick Carter's Viennese waltz.

If I had to choose I'd choose Sharna, but I do kind of hope that she either slows down or maybe takes a season off to find her creativity again.

I really liked Sharna with Charlie and James. Peta showmanced Brant as much as James. 

1 hour ago, smiley13 said:

I would much rather see Peta than Sharna.  The only season I disliked Peta was the All-Star season with Gilles.  There has never been a season or partner where I liked Sharna.   Anything with Andy Dick was the worst because he is such a repulsive person.

Peta and Nick were a good partnership this season.  I do not watch The Bachelor so I had no pre-conceived notion about him.  

I would love to see Sharna leave the show.  When you have Lindsay, Emma, Witney and Peta as pros that is a good group.  I loved having Kym back even though it was a short time.  But please do not bring back Allison.  In an ideal season, we would get back Edyta and/or Karina.

Oh Gilles. How much I loved him in Season 8 when he was partnered with Cheryl and how much I despised him during All Stars with Peta. That still makes me so sad that he didn't come back with Cheryl.

One of the biggest reasons I hope the fam all take next season off is that maybe we'll get Karina back.

[OnceSane]

Stick to the episode, y'all.

[marykat71702]

19 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Dancing is the least important factor in winning DWTS after all.

That is NOT true. 

[rollacoaster]

To me, a handful of dance classes as a child or in college or even as an adult does not a ringer make. Dancing for a living does. 

[calipiano81]

5 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Quote

Dancing is the least important factor in winning DWTS after all.

That is NOT true.

Really. The best dancers this season were female, yet the highest any of them placed was 3rd.

Having a demographic-friendly fanbase and personality will take you much farther on DWTS than being a great dancer. And if you don't have the fanbase or stand-out personality, prepare to be the "shocking elimination" of the season.

[surreysmum]

Can someone more familiar with the mechanics of the show answer a question for me? Other than the momentary humiliation factor, is there any difference to the celeb between finishing second or finishing third?  My understanding is that they're paid by the episode, right? And I assume that the trophy winner has an ancillary benefit (especially for those in showbiz) of having some extra airtime on talk shows, but I can't see that being a  factor between second and third placement. 

How about for the pro? Are they paid by the episode, or by the placement? In most cases, it would roughly correspond, of course.

As usual (nearly always), I was briefly disgusted by the results, and then shrugged and let it go because the scale I judge on is clearly not the scale that operates on the show. So I've quit saying "should have won" and "wuz robbed" and just enjoy the dancing, saying, "not my results."  Insofar as TPTB listen to me and my type of viewer (which I assume is not at all), they should simply note that, charming as David and Rashad are - and I certainly bear no animus against the guys; they both seem lovely people - if TPTB manage with their all-too-blatant assume-the-audience-is-stupid engineering to come up with a final that consists of three Davids, or two Davids and a Rashad, they will lose my viewership. Presumably they have run the numbers over the years and concluded that they will put more bums on couches with charming goofy guys with heartwarming backstories than with my preferred final, which this year would have been Heather-Normani-Nancy or Heather-Normani-Simone. Fair enough. Putting bums on couches to sell broadcast advertising is their business. Whether that particular business model is going to last very much longer anyway is a whole other topic. 

[Toonces464]

49 minutes ago, surreysmum said:

Can someone more familiar with the mechanics of the show answer a question for me? Other than the momentary humiliation factor, is there any difference to the celeb between finishing second or finishing third?  My understanding is that they're paid by the episode, right? And I assume that the trophy winner has an ancillary benefit (especially for those in showbiz) of having some extra airtime on talk shows, but I can't see that being a  factor between second and third placement. 

If there is, I'm sure it's very minuscule. I think in some cases, the person who comes in second or even third makes out better than the winner as far as how it helps their career. 

 

51 minutes ago, surreysmum said:

How about for the pro? Are they paid by the episode, or by the placement? In most cases, it would roughly correspond, of course.

I know the pros are paid a base salary and then it depends how long they last. That's a very good question about a difference in pay for the ones who go all the way to the end but don't win.

52 minutes ago, surreysmum said:

As usual (nearly always), I was briefly disgusted by the results, and then shrugged and let it go because the scale I judge on is clearly not the scale that operates on the show. So I've quit saying "should have won" and "wuz robbed" and just enjoy the dancing, saying, "not my results."  Insofar as TPTB listen to me and my type of viewer (which I assume is not at all), they should simply note that, charming as David and Rashad are - and I certainly bear no animus against the guys; they both seem lovely people - if TPTB manage with their all-too-blatant assume-the-audience-is-stupid engineering to come up with a final that consists of three Davids, or two Davids and a Rashad, they will lose my viewership. Presumably they have run the numbers over the years and concluded that they will put more bums on couches with charming goofy guys with heartwarming backstories than with my preferred final, which this year would have been Heather-Normani-Nancy or Heather-Normani-Simone. Fair enough. Putting bums on couches to sell broadcast advertising is their business. Whether that particular business model is going to last very much longer anyway is a whole other topic. 

You feel the ideal finale would have involved Normani and I think TPTB did listen to you and your type of viewer by pushing her into the finals. Everyone I know who watches the show said from Week 1 they thought Rashad would win and that's who they were voting for. David, there was just no way they cou compete with his fans. Add them to the general DWTS voting audience that does like that kind of contestant and there's your finale.

The show made a huge mistake in bringing in a professional dancer to be on the show. To the general viewing audience, this was not what they wanted to see and clearly Heather didn't have a big enough fan base to overcome that. And they made another huge mistake pairing her with Maks. He is not as popular as he used to be and he doesn't have the power voting fan base behind him anymore that can drag Kirstie Alley to second place or keep Hope Solo around until just before the semis. Plus he's lost the ability to be able to showmance his partner for votes which I think hurts him more than anyone (including him) could have realized. 

I think pairing Nancy with Artem was a good move for the show and I think this season turned a lot of people around on Artem, but he also was not a strong enough pro in terms of popularity with a strong enough fan base to keep them around against some of the other pro fan bases, like Sharna's. 

The show has lasted for 24 seasons with this particular business model and has at least two more to go so I think it's working just fine for them.

[Pink ranger]

I think that you are overestimating the power that TPTB has over the audience. I have lost count of the number of times that a red hot favourite contestant during a reality shows heavily edited early stages ultimately lost to a dark horse in the audience vote or a minor character on a scripted tv show eclipsed the popularity of the intended star. 

The audiences ultimately chooses its favourites, I feel.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Pink ranger

[surreysmum]

6 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

8 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

You feel the ideal finale would have involved Normani

The show has lasted for 24 seasons with this particular business model and has at least two more to go so I think it's working just fine for them.

Clearly I haven't mastered the quote feature! Argh!

Re: Normani. Nope. The ideal finale for me would involve the three best dancers. This year, IMO, Normani was one of those, and that's why I named her. I suppose it's possible that there were manipulations to keep her in the finale; I'd *like* to think there were enough people voting for actual dancing that the voting itself kept her in. The prevailing narrative, however, is that Normani's success or lack thereof was either due to "fan base" (whatever that is) or producer manipulation.

I wasn't referring to this particular show's business model, but the fact that - as far as I can see - cable broadcasting with inserted advertisements and financially-driven broad-spectrum appeal is the way of the past, vs. stream-on-demand services that bypass the networks. My sense is that the stream-on-demand services will target niche markets in comparison to conventional broadcasting, just as cable services already fragmented and niched vs. the Big Three/Four.  So the (to me) positive outcome might be that there's more programming specifically directed at my tastes, and I won't have to depend on quasi-dance programs to get my dance fix. I'm not predicting the demise of popular-vote reality shows, just the departure of a certain segment of their viewership. However, that's way off-topic here.

[calipiano81]

Taken from a People article on Bindi Irwin (http://people.com/tv/dancing-with-the-stars-bindi-irwins-salary-and-bizarre-legal-battle/):

Dancing With the Stars Contestants Salaries
Start with base compensation of $125,000
Weeks 3 & 4: $10,000 per week ($20,000 total)
Week 5: $15,000
Weeks 6 & 7: $20,000 per week ($40,000 total)
Weeks 8 & 9: $30,000 per week ($60,000 total)
Weeks 10 & 11: $50,000 per week ($100,000 total)
If a celebrity makes it to the final episode, his or her earnings can go up as high as $360,000.
 

So, unless there are more details not listed here, there is no difference in pay for the finalists. The winner's extras are the trophy and the bragging rights.

[Toonces464]

3 hours ago, surreysmum said:

Re: Normani. Nope. The ideal finale for me would involve the three best dancers. This year, IMO, Normani was one of those, and that's why I named her. I suppose it's possible that there were manipulations to keep her in the finale; I'd *like* to think there were enough people voting for actual dancing that the voting itself kept her in. The prevailing narrative, however, is that Normani's success or lack thereof was either due to "fan base" (whatever that is) or producer manipulation.

The show has had a problem for a long time now with ringers and the perception of ringers. This season they had four women who were perceived that way. They were not going to all make the finale because that isn't what the viewing audience for this show, or at least the majority of it, wants to see. 

Do I think Normani had help? Absolutely. Whether that was based on her, Val, or the number of votes she had in comparison to Heather, Simone and/or Nancy I have no idea but my money is on Val. He is currently the most popular pro on the show and because of that it benefits them to keep him around as long as possible.....just like they did with Derek (and to an extent Maks) for so many years.