THT Spoilers

[Brn2bwild]

Now my hope will be that Emily gets to Canada, meets Moira, and Moira can finally have a decent storyline.  

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

Now my hope will be that Emily gets to Canada, meets Moira, and Moira can finally have a decent storyline.  

June has been stuck at the Wallingford house for most of two years.  She almost escaped for what?  Two episodes.  She was given letters.  She saw her child twice.  She had a baby.  She's been raped multiple times.  She had a love affair with Nick, after having been forced to fuck him.  She helped Serena save the household from death with her editing.  Once she visited Jezebels.  She's had numerous flashbacks.

Moira went through the same handmaid's training as June, and was also a handmaid.  She assaulted an Aunt and attempted escape.  Then she was sent to Jezebel's to be a different kind of whore.  She escaped AGAIN, and this time made it.  She had a relationship that ended.  She sold her baby.  She had sex with a woman in a bar, but didn't allow herself pleasure.  She's has PSTD.  We saw her arrive, and her reaction to the kindness show to her in Canada.  She helps new arrivals now.  She protested the arrival of Fred and Serena in Canada.  She's bonded and fought with Luke. 

She's had plenty of story. 

The difference is, at least she gets multiple things to play, and multiple locations to do that in.  June's just stuck, which is why it's more annoying.  For June, with brief exceptions, it's same shit, different day endless misery. 

There really isn't a bad actress on this show, they are all stellar.  What there is?  Bad writing, trying to stretch this show out to last 10 years, and no, that's not going to cut it.

[VagueDisclaimer]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Eden runs away with one guard dude. They get caught. They get charged and they are taken to this pool in front of everyone. Given a chance to confess and be forgiven but they don’t. They drown them both in front of an audience. 

I’m curious about their refusal to confess and how it plays out. Last we saw of Eden, she was so distraught over a kiss with Isaac. While I get that this is a speedy plot line to show that despite her deep indoctrination, she remained a very young girl who was guided by her emotions, hormones, etc. I’m surprised that they both don’t beg for forgiveness. It might play out very differently onscreen than how I’m reading it, but it makes it sound like they stand on their principles here and that seems rather ooc for both these characters.

[nodorothyparker]

Holy hell.  That sounds like it may actually be stupider than our idle musings for future storylines yesterday.  Another season of June hanging around the Waterford house still without any power to really change anything?  No.  Just no.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I am going to HATE every single bad thing that happens to June in Gilead, but it is going to be extremely difficult to have empathy for her. After all the horrors, she is actively choosing this life. 

Had she not seen Hannah just a few weeks ago and seen that she is in a "good" home by Gilead standards, I would somewhat get her desperation to stay and get her out. If she can't/won't realize her chances are astronomically better of getting Hannah out while she is out of Gilead, I give up. It is worse that she takes Waterford on an offer. Any offer.

[AnswersWanted]

...who are these people?????? 

If even half of those spoilers prove true I am out, officially. 

So many different ways, well written and developed ways, to end the season and they pick that bullshit ending? 

‘Try for a boy’...????? Oh fuck that. 

Serena should have had an eye plucked out for reading, at least, screw losing a mere finger.

Let her deal with a favored disfigurement that a Handmaid would similarly suffer. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

4 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

...who are these people?????? 

If even half of those spoilers prove true I am out, officially. 

So many different ways, well written and developed ways, to end the season and they pick that bullshit ending? 

‘Try for a boy’...????? Oh fuck that. 

Serena should have had an eye plucked out for reading, at least, screw losing a mere finger.

Let her deal with a favored disfigurement that a Handmaid would similarly suffer. 

Yeah. If they think Serena loosing an effing finger will appease fans they have another thing coming. She ought to loose a clit at least to start the conversation.

No pina coladas for you Serena. Ever!

I see the show, every now and then, doling out these little punishments to Serena to justify keeping her around. That and the times she shows that she doesn't like what is happening to her, is supposed to somehow make her palatable to viewers. It is unfortunate, because it does work. The bar for this chick is so low, it is invisible. 

[Brn2bwild]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

June has been stuck at the Wallingford house for most of two years.  She almost escaped for what?  Two episodes.  She was given letters.  She saw her child twice.  She had a baby.  She's been raped multiple times.  She had a love affair with Nick, after having been forced to fuck him.  She helped Serena save the household from death with her editing.  Once she visited Jezebels.  She's had numerous flashbacks.

Moira went through the same handmaid's training as June, and was also a handmaid.  She assaulted an Aunt and attempted escape.  Then she was sent to Jezebel's to be a different kind of whore.  She escaped AGAIN, and this time made it.  She had a relationship that ended.  She sold her baby.  She had sex with a woman in a bar, but didn't allow herself pleasure.  She's has PSTD.  We saw her arrive, and her reaction to the kindness show to her in Canada.  She helps new arrivals now.  She protested the arrival of Fred and Serena in Canada.  She's bonded and fought with Luke. 

She's had plenty of story. 

The difference is, at least she gets multiple things to play, and multiple locations to do that in.  June's just stuck, which is why it's more annoying.  For June, with brief exceptions, it's same shit, different day endless misery. 

There really isn't a bad actress on this show, they are all stellar.  What there is?  Bad writing, trying to stretch this show out to last 10 years, and no, that's not going to cut it.

Obviously I would rather have June escape the Waterfords.  Her staying behind seems really stupid, though we haven't yet seen the decision in context.  However, I find Moira to be a compelling character (as well as Emily, Janine, Rita, etc.) and in the present-day storyline, she has been very underused.  It would be great to have two compelling characters meet so that their storyline could run parallel with June's, and so the stories in general would feel less scattered.

[ClaireS]

14 hours ago, Hollandaise said:

And I wonder how Nick will react to his wife's drowning. Will we see ANY emotion or the usual stoic face. He may not love her, but we better see something. He can't have June, can't have Holly and they murder his wife. What will it take for this man to crack?

Oh just wait til episode 13, he cracks!  But it has been so frustrating waiting for it to happen.  Many people crack in 13.?

Edited July 3, 2018 by ClaireS

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

36 minutes ago, ClaireS said:

Oh just wait til episode 13, he cracks!  But it has been so frustrating waiting for it to happen.  Many people crack in 13.?

Were the last two impressive? 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, ClaireS said:

Oh just wait til episode 13, he cracks!  But it has been so frustrating waiting for it to happen.  Many people crack in 13.?

Including the viewers, it sounds like. 

[Empress1]

12 hours ago, Anela said:

I might watch if Emily really is helped by this guy. 

June abandons her baby, after it's stated that they're all worried about her????? No. I agree that it's just an excuse to keep the Waterfords in it. I wanted her to escape with her child, and work to get Hannah back. If Emily's new commander really is helping them, then she could ask him to help. 

Exactly! If she now knows Bradley Whitford is part of the resistance, that's HUGE - she can leave and work with him to get Hannah back from Canada. There's a whole network of people in Canada, including her husband and best friend! (I really just want to see Samira Wiley.) Wouldn't it make a stronger case for the Canadian powers that be to reunite Hannah with both her parents who are now in the same place? She can't do anything for Hannah in Gilead. Also, wouldn't she have LESS freedom specifically at the Waterford's? The house has got to be on serious notice - their first handmaid killed herself, their second handmaid keeps escaping (the finale is the THIRD TIME she's fled), Serena is insubordinate, and Fred has fucked up every high-profile thing he's tried to do. I'd imagine the powers that be would be watching that house very closely. Fred probably isn't in a position to promise her anything.

Also, wives: y'all just now started wondering about the fate of your daughters? "Oooh, y'all, you know what, I totally don't want my daughter to have her finger chopped off. Shit." This seems like the most poorly planned society. 

I avoid spoilers except for this show. I haven't been watching the last few episodes because this is some bleak shit and the world is bleak and no thank you. My best friend was like, "Yeah, the only way I can watch is if I'm spoiled so I know what to avoid," so that's the tack I'm taking. Not going to go back and watch the two episodes I haven't seen, but I might watch the last two.

[graefin]

So, she loses her finger. I mean, is it at least her thumb?

And are we supposed to believe that June's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome at this point, or what? Once she had the baby and had two kids inside Gilead, I knew it was going to be impossible to plot an escape with them both, so one was always going to get left behind, but this is the stupidest way they could have written it, I think. Then again, we can't have June, Luke, and Holly snuggly and happy in Canada, can we???

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Had she not seen Hannah just a few weeks ago and seen that she is in a "good" home by Gilead standards, I would somewhat get her desperation to stay and get her out. If she can't/won't realize her chances are astronomically better of getting Hannah out while she is out of Gilead, I give up. It is worse that she takes Waterford on an offer. Any offer.

Yeah, Hannah's only been beaten twice.  Ahem.

Aside from that, in under 7 years, when Hannah turns 15?  She will be married to a stranger, just like Eden.  Who wouldn't want that for their child?  June has a much better chance of getting Hannah out if she stays.  She has resources while in Gilead.  Nick's in Mayday.  Fred's obsessed with her, and according to the spoiler, offers to arrange for her to meet with Hannah more often. 

If the spoiler is correct, and it's handled correctly, I can see June both staying, and WANTING to stay near Fred and Nick, who are her best shots to put pieces in place to attempt a rescue of Hannah.

41 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Also, wives: y'all just now started wondering about the fate of your daughters? "Oooh, y'all, you know what, I totally don't want my daughter to have her finger chopped off. Shit." This seems like the most poorly planned society. 

I think watching a 15 year old girl and a barely 20 year old boy go through that kind of punishment and horrific death would be enough to scare the shit out of any mother, even a Gilead mother.  How many years until it could happen to one of their children?

1 minute ago, graefin said:

And are we supposed to believe that June's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome at this point, or what? Once she had the baby and had two kids inside Gilead, I knew it was going to be impossible to plot an escape with them both, so one was always going to get left behind, but this is the stupidest way they could have written it, I think. Then again, we can't have June, Luke, and Holly snuggly and happy in Canada, can we???

Honestly, Luke, June, and Holly "snugly" in Canada would be boring as fuck.

IF the spoiler is correct and Emily gets Holly out?  That leaves Hannah, and as I said above, June has resources to possibly figure out an escape plan for both of them.  After watching what Eden went through, from that horrifying "wedding" to her sickening murder?  I can understand why June isn't willing to abandon Hannah just to save her own life.

That said, I'll have to see how the writers handle the whole thing.  So far, they have a pretty sketchy record.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Okay. I missed that Hannah has been beaten.

I still maintain that June would be more effective out of Gilead. The annual visits, even if they increase, won't change her's or Hannah's situation. 

[LordOfLotion]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

IF the spoiler is correct and Emily gets Holly out?  That leaves Hannah, and as I said above, June has resources to possibly figure out an escape plan for both of them.  After watching what Eden went through, from that horrifying "wedding" to her sickening murder?  I can understand why June isn't willing to abandon Hannah just to save her own life.

That said, I'll have to see how the writers handle the whole thing.  So far, they have a pretty sketchy record.

I didn't get from the spoiler that Emily and Bradley Whitford (can't remember the character name) actually made it out of Gilead, just that they were on their way out. They could come back next season and have them all running in circles again, which would be a disappointment, but it would be par for the course with these writers.

[The Mighty Peanut]

14 hours ago, GraceK said:

Of course June stays cause she’s a freakin idiot. Shes of zero worth to Hannah in Gilead and abandons her newborn to someone else. Awesome. One more reason why June is the worst. YAWN. The smart move would be to escape with your baby who physically needs you and work with the resistance from a place of safety and freedom to rescue Hannah instead of staying with your sadistic captors as a slave. But hey who needs logic in this anymore?

YAWN co-signed. Why would she think she'd have a better chance to help Hannah from the Waterford's at all--let alone right after she ripped away the only thing on the planet SJ cares about? She's gonna be given paralytic drugs and chained to the fucking rocking chair.

The seeds of discontent among the wives could be interesting. If it leads to an alliance with the handmaidens, or has anything to do with the Underground Femaleroad/Mayday, great. But I am worried it will just be Gilead getting grosser, like, come view the amputated limbs of sinners at the Gilead Museum of Cautionary Tales level gross. I don't mind facing the brutality of theocratic regimes but I also don't need to be watching a Hostel rip off once a week.

Edited July 3, 2018 by The Mighty Peanut

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

YAWN co-signed. Why would she think she'd have a better chance to help Hannah from the Waterford's at all--let alone right after she ripped away the only thing on the planet SJ cares about? She's gonna be given paralytic drugs and chained to the fucking rocking chair.

Because, according to the spoiler, Fred has promised her access to Hannah, and her lover is in Mayday.  Hannah's chances may be slim, but they are greater with June meeting with her than they will ever be from some pie-in-the-sky rescue effort from Canada.

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

The seeds of discontent among the wives could be interesting. If it leads to an alliance with the handmaidens, or has anything to do with the Underground Femaleroad/Mayday, great. But I am worried it will just be Gilead getting grosser, like, come view the amputated limbs of sinners at the Gilead Museum of Cautionary Tales level gross. I don't mind facing the brutality of theocratic regimes but I also don't need to be watching a Hostel rip off once a week.

Yes.  In the epilogue the asshole talks about 3 phases of Gilead, each getting progressively worse "for the women."

I'm hoping this means Phase Two is beginning, and now?  It's not just Handmaid's suffering, it's all women, including the Wives of the bigshots.

Until we get through Phase Two, we won't be able to get to Phase Three, which brings about the end of Gilead.  Maybe the women, once they are all as oppressed as the Handmaids, band together and will bring it down? 

14 minutes ago, LordOfLotion said:

I didn't get from the spoiler that Emily and Bradley Whitford (can't remember the character name) actually made it out of Gilead, just that they were on their way out. They could come back next season and have them all running in circles again, which would be a disappointment, but it would be par for the course with these writers.

From the character descriptions leaked about him, I have a hard time believing he's a good guy.  I think he's going to be tricky and dark.  Maybe he only says he's helping her escape?  We shall see.

[jhjhjh]

46 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Okay. I missed that Hannah has been beaten.

One could argue that. The dialogue was
"Do they ever hit you?"
"Only when I'm bad."
 "Only twice."

How much discipline was involved is unknown, and different people have different ideas of child rearing. I certainly don't think it was, say, Fred-on-Serena levels.

Edited July 3, 2018 by jhjhjh

[NoSpam]

47 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

The seeds of discontent among the wives could be interesting.

I'm sure this will be dropped immediately next episode.

 

Show runner needs seriously fired.

[ClaireS]

7 hours ago, Anela said:

Including the viewers, it sounds like. 

?

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Were the last two impressive? 

YES!

18 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

Dear god, no more fucking flashbacks. This is the one show where I welcome a timeskip. Let’s jump ahead and see change! And let’s get other actresses to play Hannah and let her age too lol! 

Above all else, this show needs to plan an endgame and work towards that and have stories feed into that. Because they can stall their stories all they want, the audience isn’t going to stick around for that. This not a 10-season show, Im hoping for 5, at the most. This season, the show was written like it knew it had a third season in the bag and they needn’t do shit.   They need to write as if they don’t have an unlimited time or audience. Add urgency, but most of all, progress and development.

I really hope the commander isn’t tricking Emily, because that’s literally the only bit of momentum this finale has going for it.

I love the flashbacks; seeing how everything happened but yes it does need some forward momentum.?

[ClaireS]

17 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am going to HATE every single bad thing that happens to June in Gilead, but it is going to be extremely difficult to have empathy for her. After all the horrors, she is actively choosing this life. 

Had she not seen Hannah just a few weeks ago and seen that she is in a "good" home by Gilead standards, I would somewhat get her desperation to stay and get her out. If she can't/won't realize her chances are astronomically better of getting Hannah out while she is out of Gilead, I give up. It is worse that she takes Waterford on an offer. Any offer.

 

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Because, according to the spoiler, Fred has promised her access to Hannah, and her lover is in Mayday.  Hannah's chances may be slim, but they are greater with June meeting with her than they will ever be from some pie-in-the-sky rescue effort from Canada.

Yes.  In the epilogue the asshole talks about 3 phases of Gilead, each getting progressively worse "for the women."

I'm hoping this means Phase Two is beginning, and now?  It's not just Handmaid's suffering, it's all women, including the Wives of the bigshots.

Until we get through Phase Two, we won't be able to get to Phase Three, which brings about the end of Gilead.  Maybe the women, once they are all as oppressed as the Handmaids, band together and will bring it down? 

From the character descriptions leaked about him, I have a hard time believing he's a good guy.  I think he's going to be tricky and dark.  Maybe he only says he's helping her escape?  We shall see.

Spot on about women banding together.  He IS a good guy just weird.  But maybe she is choosing to stay to be a warrior and get women and girls out and Hannah???

Edited July 4, 2018 by ClaireS

[BellyLaughter]

I can’t get over the creeper, infatuated Fred telling Offred they’ll try for a boy which makes me have a moment of “poor Serena” but then I’m right back at her holding June down while her creeper husband rapes her.... 

Yay for Bradley Whitford being one of the good guys....does anyone know if he is contracted to return next season?? 

Edited July 4, 2018 by BellyLaughter

[ClaireS]

1 minute ago, BellyLaughter said:

I can’t get over the creeper, infatuated Fred telling Offred they’ll try for a boy which makes me have a moment of “poor Serena” but then I’m right back at her holding June down while her creeper husband rapes her.... 

Yay for Bradley Whitford being one of the good guys....does anyone know if he is contracted to return next season?? 

Maybe June will tell him to f*** off??

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, ClaireS said:

 

I love the flashbacks; seeing how everything happened but yes it does need some forward momentum.?

Let me clarify: I welcome flashbacks for seeing Lydia, Rita, Nick, and practically every character but June and Luke. For me, that well of flashbacks has long run dry and adds very little to the current stories. 

47 minutes ago, ClaireS said:

Maybe June will tell him to f*** off??

I’d like her to say, “Well, I’d have to talk to Nick about that, wouldn’t I?”

Edited July 4, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[GraceK]

59 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

can’t get over the creeper, infatuated Fred telling Offred they’ll try for a boy which makes me have a moment of “poor Serena” but then I’m right back at her holding June down while her creeper husband rapes her.... 

This again proves why June choosing to stay with the Waterford’s in that Batshit crazy house makes no sense. Yes June, stay as a slave in that house on the off chance you can possibly see Hannah, while being forced to make yet ANOTHER baby for them. That’s real smart. Save one baby and be used as a broodmare to bring MORE babies into this fucked up society . At this point June herself is becoming a villain, because there’s no guarantee anymore that she will even stay at the Waterford’s with all of there mistakes and fuck ups. Chances are , since her uterus is the only valuable commodity, if she’s not immediately killed or sent to the colonies she can just be sent to another household and be forced to be made pregnant again. So nice job June. Her stupid decision to not escape with her newborn daughter that needs her can very likely result in another baby being born in a hellhole. It makes no sense. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[Umbelina]

I really doubt June's staying to "see" Hannah.  She's more likely staying to try to rescue her.

I don't have children, but there are several that I love.  If either of my nieces were 8 years old, and I had a better, even though slight chance of rescuing them, or even helping them in any way?  I would stay.

[GraceK]

How can she rescue her? Seriously how? The only person who can help her is Nick and he has done jack shit so far. When he did do something, it was for her specifically and she still got caught . If these spoilers are true, a band of Martha’s literally burn down a house and a string of luck comes together to organize circumstances for this escape, and she pretty much smacks them in the face by not taking this help,  and after this shit a crack down is coming to a horrific level. How is June, a problem handmaid, with strikes against her, possibly going to orchestrate a rescue for a child of high ranking parents? Are you kidding me? She’s gonna storm in and kidnap Hannah and fly away to Canada? This is shitty writing and it’s insulting to viewers. These are contrived circumstances just to keep June in Gilead and we all know it. There is no possible way that June is able to get Hannah out of Gilead from Gilead. Her best options is from the outside. And it’s pretty shitty of June to think nothing of the newborn that is helpless. Yeah, Hannah is not in the best of circumstances at the moment, but she’s got it better that June and the handmaids. She’s the beloved child of elites and she’s got years ahead before shes gonna be married off. She’s not in dire circumstances. Harsh but true. This baby literally needs to be nursed and fed and is being handed off to Strangers on the run and June is like okay bye!!! I have to worry about the older kid who is safe and warm and who I have no chance of doing anything about right now! I’ll just stay here and get  raped and pregnant again while hopefully another chance falls into my lap!!! Thanks Emily for taking care of Holly for me and carrying that responsibility while once more I wait here and just plot and smirk and see where the wind blows me!!’l

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[NoSpam]

7 minutes ago, GraceK said:

How can she rescue her? Seriously how?

I feel you.

 

June can't even get out of a garage.

[mamadrama]

5 minutes ago, GraceK said:

How can she rescue her? Seriously how? The only person who can help her is Nick and he has done jack shit so far. When he did do something, it was for her specifically and she still got caught . If these spoilers are true, a band of Martha’s literally burn down a house and a string of luck comes together to organize circumstances for this escape, and she pretty much smacks them in the face by not taking this help,  and after this shit a crack down is coming to a horrific level. How is June, a problem handmaid, with strikes against her, possibly going to orchestrate a rescue for a child of high ranking parents? Are you kidding me? She’s gonna storm in and kidnap Hannah and fly away to Canada? This is shitty writing and it’s insulting to viewers. These are contrived circumstances just to keep June in Gilead and we all know it. There is no possible way that June is able to get Hannah out of Gilead from Gilead. Her best options is from the outside. And it’s pretty shitty of June to think nothing of the newborn that is helpless. Yeah, Hannah is not in the best of circumstances at the moment, but she’s got it better that June and the handmaids. She’s the beloved child of elites and she’s got years ahead before shes gonna be married off. She’s not in dire circumstances. Harsh but true. This baby literally needs to be nursed and fed and is being handed off to Strangers on the run and June is like okay bye!!! I have to worry about the older kid who is safe and warm and who I have no chance of doing anything about right now! I’ll just stay here and get  raped and pregnant again while hopefully another chance falls into my lap!!! Thanks Emily for taking care of Holly for me and carrying that responsibility while once more I wait here and just plot and smirk and see where the wind blows me!!’l

I agree. I have 2 living children and 1 deceased child and I still think I'd take my chances up in Canada. As a former travel writer working in countries that were still considered "dangerous" at the time, we were always trained to get at least one of us out when working with a photographer. (Of course, if we could both get out then we would, but the idea was not to hang around if one of us had the opportunity to leave during a coup or whatever.) In our training we were always told that it's easier to coordinate rescue efforts from the outside than from the inside, especially once you had a connection on the inside. 

[LordOfLotion]

I get that she's afraid that they'll kill Hannah, but they're going to kill Hannah anyway. Staying behind is a mistake.

[GraceK]

8 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I agree. I have 2 living children and 1 deceased child and I still think I'd take my chances up in Canada. As a former travel writer working in countries that were still considered "dangerous" at the time, we were always trained to get at least one of us out when working with a photographer. (Of course, if we could both get out then we would, but the idea was not to hang around if one of us had the opportunity to leave during a coup or whatever.) In our training we were always told that it's easier to coordinate rescue efforts from the outside than from the inside, especially once you had a connection on the inside. 

Seriously. In Canada she has her husband, best friend and the press working for her. Freedom and the opportunity to use everything at her disposal to fight for her child and for the breakdown of Gilead. She could be a real freedom fighter, a warrior fighting for her daughter and for all the victims in Gilead from a position of power, instead she chooses to stay in a position of complete subjugation and weakness that benefits nobody and basically deserts both her children really. Ugh she just sucks really. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[VagueDisclaimer]

38 minutes ago, GraceK said:

How can she rescue her? Seriously how? The only person who can help her is Nick and he has done jack shit so far. When he did do something, it was for her specifically and she still got caught . If these spoilers are true, a band of Martha’s literally burn down a house and a string of luck comes together to organize circumstances for this escape, and she pretty much smacks them in the face by not taking this help,  and after this shit a crack down is coming to a horrific level. How is June, a problem handmaid, with strikes against her, possibly going to orchestrate a rescue for a child of high ranking parents? Are you kidding me? She’s gonna storm in and kidnap Hannah and fly away to Canada? This is shitty writing and it’s insulting to viewers. These are contrived circumstances just to keep June in Gilead and we all know it. There is no possible way that June is able to get Hannah out of Gilead from Gilead. Her best options is from the outside. And it’s pretty shitty of June to think nothing of the newborn that is helpless. Yeah, Hannah is not in the best of circumstances at the moment, but she’s got it better that June and the handmaids. She’s the beloved child of elites and she’s got years ahead before shes gonna be married off. She’s not in dire circumstances. Harsh but true. This baby literally needs to be nursed and fed and is being handed off to Strangers on the run and June is like okay bye!!! I have to worry about the older kid who is safe and warm and who I have no chance of doing anything about right now! I’ll just stay here and get  raped and pregnant again while hopefully another chance falls into my lap!!! Thanks Emily for taking care of Holly for me and carrying that responsibility while once more I wait here and just plot and smirk and see where the wind blows me!!’l

 

 

I’ve said this before, but i’ve dismissed this the season of suspension of disbelief. The thing is, I was fine with dismissing things like juggling marbles and even a handmaid and guard making out in full view of a public hallway, but i really can’t apply that to sending a newborn off without any formula or baby supplies with two randoms, only one of whom June could even possibly trust. I was all for Emily escaping with Holly, but not with June actively having the choice to stay or leave. I mean, we just had the case of Janine’s baby almost dying from FTT. I mean, I’m sure Emily will be nice and maternal to the baby, but we’re talking extreme conditions ahead of her with an unpredictable ex-commander at her side.

But, hey, it made no sense that they brought back hostile and defiant ex-handmaids from the Colonies (and look how that worked out, Aunt Lydia?) after the bomb, but the show wanted them back in the main story, so it happened. Same for June, who has to stay in Gilead because of show reasons, not story reasons. 

22 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Seriously. In Canada she has her husband, best friend and the press working for her. Freedom and the opportunity to use everything at her disposal to fight for her child and for the breakdown of Gilead. She could be a real freedom fighter, a warrior fighting for her daughter and for all the victims in Gilead from a position of power, instead she chooses to stay in a position of complete subjugation and weakness that benefits nobody and basically deserts both her children really. Ugh she just sucks really. 

 

Though, really, what has Canada proven to do, not to mention Luke and Moira with their nothingsauce stories?

 They published the letters that June got and gave to Nick who smuggled it to Canada. They clearly have ex-handmaidens and other refugees who escaped awfulness, do we have any proof that Canada has done anything other than providing sanctuary? I clearly think it’s better that June stay with her helpless newborn and try to get help to Gilead, but that’s not because the show has proven Canada has made much impact on any kind of rescue or resistance from or for Gilead. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[Umbelina]

In Gilead she does have Nick, she does have Fred trying to please her, she has a much better chance at helping Hannah from Gilead, if nothing else, emotionally.

If it's so easy to get her out via Canada, why hasn't Luke done anything at all?  OK, Luke's an idiot, but Moira and the Canadian government are not.

If she leaves, Hannah has no chance.  I'm just saying, I would stay.  If I were June I would stay.  She just had a baby, so she's safe from the Colonies for at least 3 more tours, or is it forever?  I can't keep their stupid rules straight.  Anyway, she's in no immediate danger, given that they are currently so desperate for fertile woman that they brought back women from the nuclear waste colonies, including one nut, and one who ran down a guardian after stealing a car, and having an affair with a Martha.

Hannah though?  Is in danger, and June can at least help her with letting her know mommy is trying and just say yes to all the bullshit.

ETA, Emily can tell the Canadian people Hannah's Gilead name for June, and even the summer house location.

Oh, and that big wig Commander can certainly get his hands on baby formula, but the truth is, they are only hours from Canada, the kid can survive on water for a couple of hours.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[mamadrama]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

Hannah though?  Is in danger, and June can at least help her with letting her know mommy is trying and just say yes to all the bullshit.

IF she ever gets to see Hannah again. What if Fred is lying? What if in 24 hours they decide to go ahead and purge Fred, the only person with any power who is trying to please her? Or what if he just decides that he's bored of her? I wouldn't put much faith in the idea that he's going to do something good for her; ie. getting her more visitation time. So she stays and has a THIRD child that she must now worry about? This all makes me dislike June even more. 

This is just a plot device to keep their central character in Gilead. And I'm sure an equally stupid explanation will come along to explain why she gets to stay with the Waterfucks. 

@VagueDisclaimer is right-the suspension of disbelief requires an awful lot of the viewers at this point. 

[Umbelina]

46 minutes ago, GraceK said:

She’s gonna storm in and kidnap Hannah and fly away to Canada? This is shitty writing and it’s insulting to viewers. These are contrived circumstances just to keep June in Gilead and we all know it. There is no possible way that June is able to get Hannah out of Gilead from Gilead.

I seriously doubt she would storm in.  If it were me, I'd work to get both Hannah and Fred alone someplace, have Fred drive me himself to the Lake House or wherever.  Have Fred dismiss the guardian(s) and the Martha, he's powerful enough.  Then I'd probably put Hannah to bed, seduce Fred, and clonk him over the head with something heavy, steal his damn car, and make it to that cabin in Maine with my daughter.

By the way, June isn't going to Canada before she spends quite a bit of time in a cabin in Maine making tapes, so I wouldn't hold my breath on Canada scenes for June anytime soon.  Unless of course, they throw away everything from Atwood's book.

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

This is just a plot device to keep their central character in Gilead. And I'm sure an equally stupid explanation will come along to explain why she gets to stay with the Waterfucks. 

Maybe, but it's not at all illogical to me, not even a little big, and I've been VERY critical of the writing for this show for a while now.

In this case, I know in my heart/gun/soul I would do the same thing, if there was any chance at all I could save Hannah.  So June doing it?  Believable to me.  Succeeding, not so much...

[GraceK]

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

she does have Fred trying to please her, she has a much better chance at helping Hannah from Gilead, if nothing else, emotionally.

In the case of Fred she’s been an idiot, because she’s done nothing to take advantage of his feelings for her, except antagonize him. She doesn’t even pretend that she likes him cause she’s a dumbass. Helping Hannah emotionally? How? Last time she saw her all that did was traumatize her all over again. Secondly, all she has is the “promise” from Fred that he will let her see her more. No guarantees. With their house being burned down, the baby being “kidnapped”, Lydia being  stabbed , Serena being so bold as asking to read and having her finger chopped off, chances are the Waterford’s are not going to be in such a great and powerful position next season to even have a handmaid, which makes June’s choice even more retarded. She taking all of this on chance, when the reality is that most likely , best case scenario she’s either reassigned to highest bidder or the powers that be think she’s too dangerous and make her suffer in the colonies. And if the best case scenario ends up with her being raped and bringing ANOTHER baby into this world, when she had a chance to escape, I’m sorry but she is one stupid ???

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[VagueDisclaimer]

I will say that this ending affirms some of my future show spec that June will never reach Canada or have any long lasting reunions. Eventually, Hannah will get free and June will see her kids and Luke and Moira again, but i don’t see it ever ending in something that June gets to enjoy. I see Nick dying in getting June(and others) free and June dying in getting her kids and other women free and the kids living on with Moira and Luke and maybe Emily’s family(I see Emily dying next season in servicing the story and saving of women, as well). 

9 minutes ago, GraceK said:

In the case of Fred she’s been an idiot, because she’s done nothing to take advantage of his feelings for her, except antagonize him. She doesn’t even pretend that she likes him cause she’s a dumbass. Helping Hannah emotionally? How? Last time she saw her all that did was traumatize her all over again. Secondly, all she has is the “promise” from Fred that he will let her see her more. No guarantees. With their house being burned down, the baby being “kidnapped”, Lydia being  stabbed , Serena being so bold as asking to read and having her finger chopped off, chances are the Waterford’s are not going to be in such a great and powerful position next season to even have a handmaid, which makes June’s choice even more retarded. She taking all of this on chance, when the reality is that most likely , best case scenario she’s either reassigned to highest bidder or the powers that be think she’s too dangerous and make her suffer in the colonies. And if the best case scenario ends up with her being raped and bringing ANOTHER baby into this world, when she had a chance to escape, I’m sorry but she is one stupid bitch.

I’m annoyed by the show, as well, but, especially considering the context of the subject matter, let’s not devolve into unnecessarily misogynistic and degrading language 

Edited July 4, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[GraceK]

5 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

’m annoyed by the show, as well, but, especially considering the context of the subject matter, let’s not devolve into unnecessarily misogynistic and degrading language 

I edited my post for this reason. I caught myself . My temper runs away with me sometimes and I need to take a breath. I apologize 

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[LittleRed84]

20 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Moira went through the same handmaid's training as June, and was also a handmaid.

Moira escaped before ever going to her first posting is my understanding. She never made it past the Red Center. 

[mamadrama]

6 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

Moira escaped before ever going to her first posting is my understanding. She never made it past the Red Center. 

That's what I understood as well-that she escaped before her first posting. 

I'm not putting much stock in book/show comparison at this point. The showrunners don't seem to fully understand the nuances of the book so I'm not holding my breath for the cabin scene or anything else that might happen. In fact, I wish I'd read the book after seeing the show because the mental comparisons are driving me insane. 

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

That's what I understood as well-that she escaped before her first posting. 

I'm not putting much stock in book/show comparison at this point. The showrunners don't seem to fully understand the nuances of the book so I'm not holding my breath for the cabin scene or anything else that might happen. In fact, I wish I'd read the book after seeing the show because the mental comparisons are driving me insane. 

Well, I pretty much expect to see it, but the truth is, the book never says she stayed in the cabin, only that the tapes were found hidden there.  She could have made them elsewhere, and someone else hid them, or whatever.  I pictured her by the fireplace, after finding old music tapes, and a tape recorder, and spending the winter making them though.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[chocolatine]

Do we know for sure that the show is going to have June make the tapes? I thought the letters were the show's version of the tapes - multiple handmaids' tales instead of one.

[mamadrama]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

Do we know for sure that the show is going to have June make the tapes? I thought the letters were the show's version of the tapes - multiple handmaids' tales instead of one.

We have zero idea if they're going to have her make the tapes or go to any cabin in Maine. She does seem to be narrating to something, but whether it's to a recorder or imaginary friend is anyone's guess. 

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

We have zero idea if they're going to have her make the tapes or go to any cabin in Maine. She does seem to be narrating to something, but whether it's to a recorder or imaginary friend is anyone's guess. 

Maybe she’s talking to Serena’s severed finger ?

[mamadrama]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Maybe she’s talking to Serena’s severed finger ?

Now THAT I could actually watch! 

Or the mystical wolf-dog. 

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Now THAT I could actually watch! 

Or the mystical wolf-dog. 

Like Wilson in Castaway ????

Edited July 4, 2018 by GraceK

[Umbelina]

22 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Do we know for sure that the show is going to have June make the tapes? I thought the letters were the show's version of the tapes - multiple handmaids' tales instead of one.

I would honestly be shocked if they left out June making the tapes.  I really expected her to make them in the newspaper office, and thought then they might find their way to that cabin.

But no, if the show lasts, I expect we will see her in that cabin someday, making the tapes.

That doesn't mean she ever makes it out of there though.

[ClaireS]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:43 AM, maggiegil said:

I know everyone is claiming that Eden and Isaac's deaths will be pointless but my thinking is that it is what causes Serena and the other wives to "strive to make change" like they've said in the description for episode 13. I imagine the wives know some of the punishments Gilead hands out but I wonder how often do they have to watch them being carried out especially on someone who is still a teenager? Pure speculation but I feel like "striving to make change" could have Serena out of the house without Holly  and give June/Nick/someone else the chance to grab her or something

YES EXACTLY!!

[ClaireS]

On 6/29/2018 at 10:30 PM, Tooch said:

UGH, another foreboding comment from someone who has seen the finale, on Twitter: 

There's also another awards show forum with someone who has seen it, and when a user say something like "no way June will forget Serena's role in the rape" the person who has seen the last ep replies "She might" with spoiler tags. 

My depressing theory: the "controversy" is that June decides to give Holly to Serena to raise so she can escape with Nick. BUT the post above that mentions yet another "soft reset" as well as Fred's continued infatuation with June makes me think the controversy might be June giving Holly to SERENA to escape to Hawaii, while she's somehow fucking stuck in Gilead still with Fred. Ew. 

It’s a terrific finale IMHO with a frustrating twist but a lot of good things happen that should make people here happy: ‘love’ , fighting back, escape.  Also the twist makes some sense if you consider what ‘badass’ June could accomplish!  And there’s no way she could leave Hannah behind...a lot of good closure.  Season 2 is even better than 1!!!?

On 7/2/2018 at 6:09 PM, GraceK said:

Also, again this is idea of anyone suing Serena for custody of Holly makes no sense, cause Serena has no legal claim to that baby no matter where she is. If anything, Fred has more of a claim than Serena since he can claim that Holly is biologically his since he slept with her and could be. In what universe of any court of law can Serena fight for custody over a stolen child she got by being complicit in having someone rape a woman? That literally makes no sense. This magical unicorn dream of a immunity deal I’m sure won’t extend so far as everyone just allowing her to keep her blood baby. And if the runners decide to jump the shark, and have Serena abscond to Canada with Holly, get a immunity deal, write a book, tour the world , hobknob with diplomats and then battle in the courts for custody of this baby like an epic Law and Order episode that would literally be the most hamfisted full of shit storyline that should just be Serena Fan fiction cause it makes no sense.

Maybe Emily will get out with Holly/Nicole???  I’m sorry I think Serena is a victim too of the misogynistic patriarchy...