Season 3 Discussion

[statsgirl]

It seems to me that as this show goes on, both Sidney and Geordie are losing brain cells at a frightening rate.  When Sidney told Geordie's daughter that her father would do anything he could to keep her from being happy, I thought "How naive are you?"  And also "So, are you actually going to speak to Geordie about this or just take it for granted that it's none of your business, as the person the girl confided in?"  I also have zero sympathy for Geordie starting an affair.  Stop being so stupid and self-indulgent.

On the other hand, Amanda's ex was surprisingly sympathetic in this episode.  "May I hold her?... She's so beautiful. I've made a terrible mess of things, didn't I?"  I guess it's so that we're supposed to feel sorry for Sidney, poor conflicted man.

On 2017-06-20 at 0:49 PM, sinycalone said:

I wish Daisy would give up on her mission to make the audience "love" Amanda.  All of the drama surrounding her is just having the opposite effect on me:  I want Amanda gone....with her baby...asap.  She left her husband (granted he is somewhat of a jerk) with no plan for herself or baby.  No amount of scenes in the snow, or her heartless father make her choices OK.

Me too.  It's partly because she's needy because she's so unable to plan ahead and survive by herself, partly because she makes Sidney unlikable, and partly because I know the soapy drama is coming and I can't enjoy the mystery any more because I'm bracing myself for Sidney being stupid about Amanda.

On 2017-06-23 at 11:24 AM, dubbel zout said:

Part of her hostility toward Hildegaard was worrying about being replaced, i.e., if Hildegaard (or anyone, really) married Sidney, Mrs. Maguire would be out of a job. 

That's not going to be a problem with Amanda.

[HoodlumSheep]

That was the most delightfully terrible episode they've ever done. It was too cheesy to hate, though.

Talk about an overabundance of murder-mystery tropes. The dead crows, the heavy breathing over the phone, the zillion walks through the creepy hallways, the asylum. My mom and I had a riot watching this episode. If only it had taken place in the night moreso than the day. It would have been perfect. :P

Leonard :( he's gonna try moving on with that lady and things are not gonna end well.

Points off for that terrible slow-mo nighttime bicycle ride with sidney and amanda *gags* it's like they're in their honeymoon phase. Blah.

Good to see margaret contributing. Bad to see geordie and her starting things again. The detective lackey is totally gonna spill the beans to cathy. Or blackmail geordie or something. Although cathy already knows geordie hasn't been faithful, unless they've forgotten that. Or maybe i'm not remembering things right??? But i'm pretty sure she knew something was up in season 2.

This also makes the christmas special the odd one out even more, because like i said earlier, they completely ignored the geordie/cathy/margaret, sidney/amanda/guy, leonard drama only to pick up where season 2 left off with this one. They could have tied the christmas special in a little better. But i guess that would have made it too depressing for a christmas special.

Edited June 26, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[chitowngirl]

Just where is Amanda living and who is funding it and all her necessities???

[Kohola3]

Quote

Just where is Amanda living and who is funding it and all her necessities???

Exactly what I said as soon as they showed her at that house.  Five minutes ago she was penniless and ready to sleep on a bench in the snow.

I literally shouted at the TV when Geordie grabbed Margaret.  No, for the love of God, just stop that crap.

16 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

They could have tied the christmas special in a little better.

I wish that had not shown it at all. It just makes things way more confusing.  They gave us some hope last week only to toss us right back into the morass.  Ugh.

[HoodlumSheep]

Count me in as someone wondering about amanda's living situation. Clearly she's not penniless like the christmss special was trying so hard to make us believe, or she's getting cash from someone, which contradicts her refusal to take money in the last episode. :/

[wonderwoman]

Yes, the episode was one cliche after another, including an absolutely adorable baby Grace. 

[Pickles]

Doesn't Geordie have better sense than to make out with Margaret in front of his office window?? Apparently not. I also was wondering how Amanda had money for her little house! 

[sinycalone]

That wasn't such a little house.  

[pcta]

56 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Doesn't Geordie have better sense than to make out with Margaret in front of his office window?? Apparently not. I also was wondering how Amanda had money for her little house! 

Her father mentioned the Lawyer who would make sure she got her allowance . . .

[Ms Lark]

9 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Points off for that terrible slow-mo nighttime bicycle ride with sidney and amanda *gags* it's like they're in their honeymoon phase. Blah.

Like that would happen. How long has it been since she gave birth? A couple days? Uhhh. Nope. not riding on the handlebars of a bike, thank you! Not to mention she should be having major breast milk issues!

I also want to know how she's affording the cottage (no rent $$), where the baby clothes are coming from (Mrs. Maguire must be knitting non-stop), how she's keeping her in nappies, and a multitude of other questions. Robbing the poor box?

Quote

Her father mentioned the Lawyer who would make sure she got her allowance . . .

Oops. Missed that part. Thanks pcta!

Edited June 26, 2017 by Ms Lark

[JudyObscure]

I really don't mind the Amanda story.  I get that they're very much in love, so I can forgive them for acting moony  and silly when they're together.  

I do think the romance is almost over though.  Geordie told Sidney that a "father," would suffer anything for his child, so I think that was foreshadowing that Sidney is going to encourage Amanda to give her husband another chance for the sake of the baby.  That will be Sidney's huge, sad sacrifice -- both Amanda, the love of his life, and the baby who he adores.  Add in Leonard trying to change who he is with that tragic young woman and we're in for a season of heartbreak.

Margaret has always made me furious.  If she can't find any unattached men in town to throw herself at, she should ask for a transfer.  Geordie is just as bad but he doesn't bother me quite as much as Margaret and her blatant flirtatiousness.

That home for the feebleminded?  Are you kidding? One woman cleaning up, feeding and managing a dozen or more people?  That was such an unrealistic load of work, they had me feeling sorry for the villain.  Plus, wouldn't "No toys!" have given the father a clue?

[HoodlumSheep]

8 hours ago, pcta said:

Her father mentioned the Lawyer who would make sure she got her allowance . . .

So she gets enough allowance to live comfortably??? That just makes the poor amanda schtick in the christmas special even more completely pointless and a waste of everybody's time.

[wonderwoman]

2 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Like that would happen. How long has it been since she gave birth? A couple days? Uhhh. Nope. not riding on the handlebars of a bike, thank you! Not to mention she should be having major breast milk issues!

Judging from the size of baby Grace and the springlike weather, it would appear that several months had passed Amanda would be well past "major breast milk issues."

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

This also makes the christmas special the odd one out even more

IIRC from last week's BTS bit, the producers got the go-ahead for the Christmas episode after writing (and maybe filming a few episodes) for the season had started, so there are some discrepancies.

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Margaret has always made me furious.  If she can't find any unattached men in town to throw herself at, she should ask for a transfer.  Geordie is just as bad but he doesn't bother me quite as much as Margaret and her blatant flirtatiousness.

Geordie is the one who's married here. Plus, he's Margaret's superior, so he can make things really difficult for her professionally. I think Margaret is going along too willingly, but her options are much more limited. Sexual harassment wasn't even a term back then, let alone something a woman could likely fight against successfully.

[dargosmydaddy]

Ugh, I thought Sydney was being horribly indiscreet dancing with Amanda at the club, but then Geordie blew him out of the water making out with Margaret in his office PRESSED UP AGAINST THE GLASS. Just ick.

I wouldn't have recognized Amy from In the Flesh as Leonard's new girlfriend had I not known that Emily Bevan was going to be on this season... 

The scene where Sydney almost got drowned had me on edge because I was worried for Grace in the aftermath. The guy came for Grace, and no one thought to check on her afterwards?! I mean, I realize Sydney was struggling to breathe at the time, and Amanda didn't know Grace was the intended target, but still... Also, did anyone think to tell Amanda about the first incident with Grace (the guy who was "a few threads short of a jumper" grabbing her?)? Or about the dead blackbirds/ stuff going on in general? You know, something about maybe wanting to lock her doors if she's going to leave the baby alone while she's outside? I know it's the 1950's, but Grantchester does have a bit of a murder rate...

[mjc570]

22 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I wouldn't have recognized Amy from In the Flesh as Leonard's new girlfriend had I not known that Emily Bevan was going to be on this season...

Thank you!

[Kohola3]

I really felt for Leonard when he was talking with the Bishop (or whatever part of the hierarchy he was) and he saw his life being laid out for him.  What a difficult path to be forced to follow when it's 180 degrees from what you were planning.  But he's such a sweet and earnest man I think he'll sincerely do his best.  He was so sweet to the daughter even before he was mandated to "find a wife and have kids".  He really is a caring soul.

[dubbel zout]

I think part of the issue was that the archdeacon knew of Leonard's attachment to the gay man, so he was warning Leonard that subsequent friendships with men might be more closely scrutinized by the hierarchy. Though I find it kind of ironic that Leonard and Sidney live together in the parsonage and no one says boo. They are two single men, after all. Is the presence of Mrs. Maguire supposed to be what makes it above board?

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Geordie is the one who's married here. Plus, he's Margaret's superior, so he can make things really difficult for her professionally. I think Margaret is going along too willingly, but her options are much more limited. Sexual harassment wasn't even a term back then, let alone something a woman could likely fight against successfully.

To me, when a married person and a single person have an affair they  are both equally at fault and both are in an adulterous situation. One has made  marriage vows and the other is charged with the  bit, "What God has joined together let no man put asunder." 

As for the sexual harassment part, I've never seen the slightest hint of unwillingness from Margaret, quite the opposite, and of course, if she doesn't like it and she did say "no" and we missed it she can always quit her job.   That's not a limited option it's a perfectly free option that thousands of women took in those days.   But we've not seen any hint that he would make things difficult for her, anymore than we've seen any hint that Margaret would make things difficult for him by telling his wife.  I did say  Geordie was just as bad, but I find him likeable in other areas while everything I've seen of her has just been pushy and self-centered.

[BlackberryJam]

I'm a bit bothered by blaming Margaret for the affair with Geordie. He's the one who made vows to his wife, not Margaret. Sure, it's never a good idea or the best moral choice to sleep with a married person, but considering the time and the setting, the choice is much more clearly his.

Or are we supposed to think her harlot-y lipstick so drew him that he had no choice to bang her?

 

ETA: Are we blaming Sidney equally as betraying Guy here? Or just Amanda for that?

Edited June 26, 2017 by BlackberryJam

[Pickles]

Emily Bevan also played the therapist for Martin and Louisa on Doc Martin. I knew she looked familiar!

[dubbel zout]

14 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

ETA: Are we blaming Sidney equally as betraying Guy here? Or just Amanda for that?

I always blame the married person more. S/he is the one who made the vows. Doesn't mean the other person is blameless, of course.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I always blame the married person more. S/he is the one who made the vows.

Yep.  You've made a commitment and have a legal obligation when you are married.  And you are hurting another person that you purportedly loved enough to whom you pledged your life.  So in my mind, the married person is the betrayer.  

And it always amazes me when someone cheats with a married person.  What makes you think you're immune from being the next "cheatee"?

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'm a bit bothered by blaming Margaret for the affair with Geordie. He's the one who made vows to his wife, not Margaret. Sure, it's never a good idea or the best moral choice to sleep with a married person, but considering the time and the setting, the choice is much more clearly his.

Where did I "blame Margaret" for the affair.  I've said, twice now, that Geordie is just as much to blame, but some people seem to think she is completely innocent  and has no part at all in the hurt his wife and children will suffer.  Why on earth is the choice more clearly his?  Was she threatened at gun point?  All she ever had to say was no.   It takes two people to commit adultery.  No, she didn't take a vow.  There are all sorts of ways to hurt people and just because you didn't take a vow not to hurt them doesn't make it okay to do it.

 

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Or are we supposed to think her harlot-y lipstick so drew him that he had no choice to bang her?

No it isn't her lipstick that makes her harlot-y,  it's her choice to bang a married man that makes her harlot-y.  She's a grown woman, she's responsible for her own moral actions. 

[magdalene]

They are really determined to make me dislike Geordie, aren't they?   I don't care one way or the other about Margaret - though I agree with the up thread sentiment that she isn't the one breaking any marriage vows, and the pickings were slim for single women after  WWII.   

But dammit, I liked Geordie before he cheated on his wife.  And even if he regrets the affair and grovels big time I'll never be able to look at him the same way again.  

Amanda must really have a magical vagina for Sidney to risk his vocation for her.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Are we blaming Sidney equally as betraying Guy here? Or just Amanda for that?

Just as with Geordie and Margaret, I blame Sidney and Amanda equally.  It's not just a matter of betraying a spouse, it's the destruction of a family with innocent children at risk.  Sidney and Margaret are both being a party to that.  I think, if Amanda hadn't known Sidney was waiting in the wings for her, she might have stayed with her husband, at least until after the baby was born and if he had been there for the birth it might have been a life-changing moment for him.  Geordie may well have found someone else to have an affair with if Margaret had turned him down, but at least it wouldn't have been as public as what the two of them are doing at the police station.  As it is now his wife is almost certain to find out and force them into a divorce when time might have straightened out whatever Geordie's problem is.

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Just as with Geordie and Margaret, I blame Sidney and Amanda equally.  It's not just a matter of betraying a spouse, it's the destruction of a family with innocent children at risk.  Sidney and Margaret are both being a party to that.  I think, if Amanda hadn't known Sidney was waiting in the wings for her, she might have stayed with her husband, at least until after the baby was born and if he had been there for the birth it might have been a life-changing moment for him.  Geordie may well have found someone else to have an affair with if Margaret had turned him down, but at least it wouldn't have been as public as what the two of them are doing at the police station.  As it is now his wife is almost certain to find out and force them into a divorce when time might have straightened out whatever Geordie's problem is.

I hope they tart up Sidney with some harlot-y lipstick to prove this point.

All sarcasm aside, the person betraying Cathy is Geordie. Not Margaret. Margaret owes no particular duty of care to Cathy. Amanda is betraying Guy. Sidney owes no particular duty of care to Guy. In the larger sense, adultery is morally abhorrent, but neither Sidney nor Margaret is breaking a vow. The person with the moral obligation to say NO is the married person, not the single one.

[statsgirl]

For me, the Sidney/Amanda/Guy situation is complicated by the fact that Amanda could have had Sydney but she chose Guy instead.

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

 Though I find it kind of ironic that Leonard and Sidney live together in the parsonage and no one says boo. They are two single men, after all. Is the presence of Mrs. Maguire supposed to be what makes it above board?

Maybe it's because of Amanda.

5 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

And it always amazes me when someone cheats with a married person.  What makes you think you're immune from being the next "cheatee"?

Worse than just that -- he's now had practice cheating in a relationship with a new person when he gets bored.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

The person with the moral obligation to say NO is the married person, not the single one.

What about the moral obligation not to covet your neighbor's spouse?  She has an obligation to say no because it's morally wrong to enable  cheating and to contribute to the break up of a marriage. Moral obligations don't begin and end with whether or not you've taken vows with someone.  If you see an old person on the street having a heart attack you have a moral obligation to call 911 whether you've ever made vows to them or not.  That's the  "duty of care." 

If Geordie and Margaret ever get married, she'll know he's a cheater and he'll know she has no respect for the sanctity of marriage.

[BlackberryJam]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

What about the moral obligation not to covet your neighbor's spouse?  She has an obligation to say no because it's morally wrong to enable  cheating and to contribute to the break up of a marriage. Moral obligations don't begin and end with whether or not you've taken vows with someone.  If you see an old person on the street having a heart attack you have a moral obligation to call 911 whether you've ever made vows to them or not.  That's the  "duty of care." 

If Geordie and Margaret ever get married, she'll know he's a cheater and he'll know she has no respect for the sanctity of marriage.

As a person on the betrayed end of this triangle, and having the therapy from it well behind me, there is an enormous difference between a specific duty of care to an individual and a general duty of care to the world at large. Using your analogy of a person having a heart attack, which young people have too, I, as a lay person, have a moral obligation, but a doctor, who has sworn an oath, has a much higher duty to provide assistance. In this instance, Margaret and Sidney are the lay persons on the street while Geordie and Amanda are the doctors.

I would agree that Sidney is deluding himself in thinking he has any respect for the sanctity of marriage and that his duty is a higher one than Margaret's, because Sidney is a vicar. On the culpability scale for bad acts, I put Geordie as the highest as he is a white male in the 50s and therefore has more choices available and more power in every situation. Next comes Amanda, as another cheating spouse breaking her vows. Sidney owes a higher duty because of his vows as a clergyman and then comes Margaret, who has made no vows to any person or any organization. 

If Sidney and Amanda get married, how can she ever trust him because he disrespected the sanctity of marriage against his own vows and how can he ever think she will respect hers?

[Kohola3]

11 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

As a person on the betrayed end of this triangle...

Thank you for the personal insight, BlackberryJam.  Your perspective is certainly more valuable than those of us who have not suffered that kind of trauma.  Well put.

[proserpina65]

Two episodes into season 3, and I have to say it's terrible.  Too much Amanda (although I did feel sorry for her when her father strong-armed her aunt into evicting her), and Geordie cheating, just ugh.  The mystery in the second episode was interesting, but need way more time than it was given.  But hey, we needed that time for Sidney's existential crisis and goo-goo eyes at Amanda.

[Driad]

I agree with proserpina65.  Wishing Amanda and Margaret would run away together, never to be heard from again. Then maybe we could see some good mysteries and have something to talk about besides tiresome soap opera.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wish i could celebrate Sidney and Amanda agreeing to stop their nonsense, but I know they'll be back together in half an episode. And Geordie didn't even try. :/

Also, I don't understand why cathy suddenly seems so out of the loop?? Like, i know she is suspecting geordie of something, but back in season 2 she like, was really suspecting him of the exact thing he is doing now. Like, she knew. so i feel like they failed a bit when it comes to continuity.

Pretty predictable mystery. We guessed the pregnancy and the culprit in like the first 10-15 minutes.

I at least appreciate the return to the episodic procedural rather than the tied together, continual murder case they did last season. And the mood is still lighter.

I was half-expecting the young lady to suddenly become amanda's roommate so they could be outcasts together, but i'm actually happy that didn't happen.

Also, was a supposed to read into that slightly strange eye contact and halfsmoles sidney and the gal shared? Or not? Hmmmmm...

Also, talk about an odd choice of slow motion for when they lady was doing the walk of shame to her jail cell. That was completely unneccessary. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[sinycalone]

Yep....I'm assuming Sidney and Amanda are just temporarily reining in their relationship.  I felt absolutely no sympathy for either one of them...but especially resented the attempt to make me feel pity for Amanda.  They are still laying it on with a trowel...including the visit with the attorney.

[magdalene]

I have more sympathy for Sidney and Amanda than I have for Geordie, the walking cliche of a tawdry mid life crisis. And considering that Amanda and Sidney are on my last nerve....

[JudyObscure]

I was glad to see a turning point with Sidney and Amanda.  They are finally realizing they can't go on living in their fairy tale.  I did feel sorry for both of them, but with the bishop's clear ultimatum and Amanda getting a reality check from her nasty lawyer, they've at least stepped back enough to understand how everyone else sees them.

Leonard trying to be "manly" is the saddest situation of all. I don't see any hope for him ever having a happy relationship inside the church. If he marries that poor young woman, just for appearances, she'll be in for a very depressing life, too.

I know I'm the only one who hates Margaret but I can't help myself.  I wanted to tip her right out of her lawn chair when she was pointedly calling Geordie's attention to herself, right in front of his wife and children. Yes, Margaret, everyone can see that you're hotter than his wife.  I still don't know why you need to publicly humiliate her.

Geordie has completely lost his mind. He's not only having a very public affair he's still being too harsh with the suspects.  He may be in trouble with his own version of the bishop very soon.

Poor Dickens, caught up in all the human's shenanigans.

Edited July 3, 2017 by JudyObscure
Edited to correct Sidney to Dickens

[TVForever]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I was glad to see a turning point with Sidney and Amanda.  They are finally realizing they can't go on living in their fairy tale.  I did feel sorry for both of them, but with the bishop's clear ultimatum and Amanda getting a reality check from her nasty lawyer, they've at least stepped back enough to understand how everyone else sees them.

Leonard trying to be "manly" is the saddest situation of all. I don't see any hope for him ever having a happy relationship inside the church. If he marries that poor young woman, just for appearances, she'll be in for a very depressing life, too.

I know I'm the only one who hates Margaret but I can't help myself.  I wanted to tip her right out of her lawn chair when she was pointedly calling Geordie's attention to herself, right in front of his wife and children. Yes, Margaret, everyone can see that you're hotter than his wife.  I still don't know why you need to publicly humiliate her.

Geordie has completely lost his mind. He's not only having a very public affair he's still being too harsh with the suspects.  He may be in trouble with his own version of the bishop very soon.

Poor Sidney, caught up in all the human's shenanigans.

You're not alone in giving Margaret MAJOR side-eye. I was completely on her side last season, when she was with Sidney. He's single, handsome, and available, at least on paper. Unfortunately, she was just a "rebound girl" for the woman that he truly wanted, so it was never going to last. This thing with Geordie is beyond wrong. He's married with children , and she's not even being very subtle in her pursuit. That scene at the cricket game was RIDICULOUS. That whole thing is going to blow up in a huge way.

Sidney and Amanda--

I find myself wondering about the writers' perspective on their relationship. Even today, their relationship would at least raise eyebrows. In the time that this is set, there's nothing about the society in which they live that would suggest that a single vicar could carry on openly with a young mother who has left her husband to be with him. Did they really think they were being discreet? Did they really need to be told by others that this was a bad idea? Am I overthinking this?

I feel sorry for Leonard, and the young woman who's going to get her heart broken. Their story seems more in keeping with the times. Even more sad because they're both sweet souls.

[lonerafter]

I don't think I've ever even known an Anglican, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of the Anglican church to basically be a Catholic who can get divorced? Why is divorce stigmatized when that was the reason it was founded? I could see not wanting your preacher to marry a divorced person, but they couldn't be friends with a divorcee and the town has to ostracize that person? Why?! Isn't that the entire point of your church in the first place?

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, lonerafter said:

isn't the entire point of the Anglican church to basically be a Catholic who can get divorced?

No, the original point was to be a Catholic without the Pope. Henry VIII wanted the Pope to annul his first marriage so that he could marry Ann,  but he didn't want divorce to be permitted.  Henry thought he wasn't having male children because his brother had been married to his first wife before he died, and that was against church law at the time.  He had only been allowed to marry her in the first place because it was believed that the marriage hadn't been consummated.   Henry thought he, himself as "Defender of the faith," would make a better  church boss than the Pope.  Ultimately the reformation was about getting rid of lots of real corruption in the Catholic church at that time, as pointed out by Martin Luther.

Divorce is still frowned on in lots of protestant churches and the biggest problem is not the divorce itself but remarriage after the divorce.  Because Jesus said that to marry a divorced woman is a form of adultery.  I was divorced when I married my present husband, we could not have been married in his Catholic church, but we were allowed to marry in my Methodist.  I have a feeling his parents never really thought we were quite legal.

Edited July 3, 2017 by JudyObscure

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, lonerafter said:

isn't the entire point of the Anglican church to basically be a Catholic who can get divorced?

The keystone of Anglicanism was to establish a Christian church headed by the monarch of England, rather than the Bishop of Rome. Henry VIII sought an annulment from Queen Catherine and was denied it by Pope Clement. Thwarted after six years of negotiations, Henry passed the Act of Succession -- and as head of the new Church of England, he had his Archbishop of Canterbury grant the annulment. Henry never did divorce any of his six wives: his marriage to Anne of Cleves was annulled, as well. 

The Anglican Church has conducted services in English under its own rites since 1549, officially permitted clergy to marry since 1571, and in the last 50 years, ordained women, permitted divorced and re-married parishioners to receive communion as well as members of other faiths, and, since 2002, permitted most divorced people to be re-married in the Church. A vicar married to a divorcee was recently appointed to a bishopric. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Pallas

[JudyObscure]

...and gay people can be Anglican clergy now with moves toward gay marriage in the church.  Sadly Leonard will be too old  to benefit from all this.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

I was half-expecting the young lady to suddenly become amanda's roommate so they could be outcasts together, but i'm actually happy that didn't happen.

Ha! Same here. An informal home for wayward women, as it were.

10 hours ago, sinycalone said:

the visit with the attorney

I know they explained why Amanda chose a solicitor in town, but why that one? Dude was THE WORST when it comes to women. I had a really hard time believing he could separate his feelings for the women in his family from a woman who's a client. It's a good think he's unlikely to continue to be Amanda's lawyer.

2 hours ago, TVForever said:

That scene at the cricket game was RIDICULOUS.

I know! And she also ran to Geordie when all the men were dropping like flies from the poison. It's disappointing they're writing Margaret this way; last season she had more common sense. I mean, Geordie is still hot AF (IMO), and I'd do him in a second, but I'd also be a lot more discreet about it.

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Poor Sidney, caught up in all the human's shenanigans.

Do you mean Dickens. the black Lab? Poor guy. 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Divorce is still frowned on in lots of protestant churches

I'm pretty sure all the mainstream Protestant sects are fine with divorce.

31 minutes ago, Pallas said:

The keystone of the Anglicanism was to be the Christian church headed by the monarch of the England, rather than the Bishop of Rome

To make a gross generalization, Henry VIII had a hissy fit about who was the ultimate authority on matters of faith.

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I know they explained why Amanda chose a solicitor in town, but why that one? Dude was THE WORST when it comes to women. I had a really hard time believing he could separate his feelings for the women in his family from a woman who's a client.

Most of all, of course, to have the character double as solicitor and murder suspect. Also, though, his explication of the law was real: Amanda had no legal grounds for divorce, and if Guy wasn't willing to be chivalrous -- that is, to be photographed in flagrante at a rural inn with a paid, fake lover -- she would have to provide him with cause, hope he took her up on it, and that the judgment against her didn't cost her everything.

Yes, the solicitor went about explaining this with the impatient satisfaction of a middle school vice-principal. But in matrimonial law, that stern tone was standard practice in a consultation with a female prospective client. Partly, to give her to understand that her solicitor was not paid to be solicitous: he was not her father, brother, confessor or guardian; that the law was not her friend; that if she couldn't stand harsh treatment around intimate matters reviewed in public, she had no business bringing a divorce action, and he was wasting his time. And partly, I'm certain, because it felt good.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Divorce is still frowned on in lots of protestant churches

I'm pretty sure all the mainstream Protestant sects are fine with divorce.

Mainstream churches don't say much about it, but there are still many churches that disapprove. The Wikipedia on Christian churches and divorce says that there are still conservative and evangelical churches that "strongly disapprove" and, "Most Protestant churches discourage divorce except as a last resort."  I wouldn't call that fine with it.

Yes, I meant Dickens. Sorry.

Edited July 3, 2017 by JudyObscure

[dubbel zout]

14 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Most of all, of course, to have the character double as solicitor and murder suspect.

It was annoying that it was such a blatant plot point to choose the hater. Heh.

Did anyone else blanch a bit when the vet said he loved pure breeds? Dickens is a gorgeous black Lab, but yikes.

[JudyObscure]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

 

Did anyone else blanch a bit when the vet said he loved pure breeds? Dickens is a gorgeous black Lab, but yikes.

I did, too, and thought it was a clue that he was the murderer.

[Brattinella]

I just wanted to add that I am seriously angry with Geordie now.

[MJ Frog]

On 6/26/2017 at 9:49 PM, BlackberryJam said:

The person with the moral obligation to say NO is the married person, not the single one.

As another person who has been on the wrong end of this kind of thing, I have to disagree. Anyone who knowingly gets involved with someone who is married or otherwise involved is a weasel. You could certainly argue that the real villain here is the person who isn't single, but that doesn't free the other person from moral culpability. For instance, if the single person was a friend or family member of the person who was cheated on, you would have a hard time saying they had no obligation to say no. I suppose you could say if they don't know the person then they don't owe them anything, but that sounds pretty hollow to me. Everybody in this situation has a choice: to knowingly do harm, or not.

That said, I don't have much of a problem with what Sidney and Amanda are doing. Amanda is separated from her husband with the intent to divorce him -- her marriage is over. In the modern day this would not be a problem. The (very real) difficulties they face are purely a function of the times they live in, and that makes me feel bad for them.

Edited July 4, 2017 by MJ Frog
Fussiness.

[BlackberryJam]

Did you not see my culpability continuum? Margaret is no innocent, but the responsibility to Cathy lies with Geordie. Margaret may owe the world at large a better decision, but she owes Cathy, specifically, nothing. 

 

I have massive problems with Sidney because he's clergy. He's chosen his vows, and with that to maintain the moral standards of the time and he can barely be assed to care.