Season 19 Live Feed Discussion

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, zorak said:

Josh just told us that he is going to get his emotions in check and become a better person--as he sniffs away those tears.

He says that every time. Seriously. I can practically write his speech word for word now. Sometimes things get moved around but the message is always the same.

[KootieTaw]

"Stop crying and acting like a victim" -- Jessica to Josh

Um ... Kettle Meet Pot.

[Artsda]

He's 23 and never even been on a trip away from home? May be that explains his issues. 

[zorak]

Elena and Mark talking just the two of them.  She's talking about the riskiness of Pauls' grand plan to put up Raven and Matt and backdoor Cody.  She acknowledged the possibility of Ramses going home instead of Cody if Ramses puts himself up and Cody wins veto and leaves the noms the same.  But she also acknowledged that it would be even worse if Cody won veto and Ramses wasn't even on the block, which would mean either Matt or Raven would go.  At least one person in this group of Paul followers is thinking about this possibility.  I'm not sure if any of the others have brought this up or not.

[MrHufflepuff]

2 minutes ago, Artsda said:

He's 23 and never even been on a trip away from home? May be that explains his issues. 

Wait, what?   Don't they come to LA as part of the selection process?

[zorak]

Jessica just told Cody she was ready to pack her bags and walk out the door right this minute because she is over it.  Then she took off her mic.  The BB voice told her to put it on but she is not doing it.  They just told her again and she keeps telling Cody she can't do this anymore.

[Artsda]

She went to DR and came back out. She's in HOH for the fake segment with everyone else.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Callaphera said:

May they each feel a thousand spikes up the asses for the rest of the week. It couldn't happen to a nicer couple.

Well... Jessica should be used to it by now, at least....

 

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

BTW, does Paul look like Rasputin to anyone else?

That, or Shylock - and Paul will have his pound of flesh.

 

26 minutes ago, MrHufflepuff said:

Wait, what?   Don't they come to LA as part of the selection process?

I'd guess Josh is mentally bundling the entire BB experience into one long trip in his mind.

Josh is the perfect example of what happens when an immature person with a soft heart gets in this game.

[vb68]

Well not to excuse Josh for even a second, but Cody and Jessica are and were complete assholes.

They are deliberately pushing his buttons.   And I thought production had been telling the rest of them not to get in Josh's face and  poke the bear. 

Notice that Cody didn't try that shit with Mark or Matt, both of whom directly betrayed him. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by vb68

[zorak]

Uh oh Paul.  Matt is questioning Paul putting him and Raven up.

[Nashville]

18 minutes ago, vb68 said:

Well not to excuse Josh for even a second, but Cody and Jessica are and were complete assholes.

They are deliberately pushing his buttons.   And I thought production had been telling the rest of them not to get in Josh's face and  poke the bear. 

Notice that Cody didn't try that shit with Mark or Matt, both of whom directly betrayed him. 

Typical Mean Girl strategy. 

Funny, it never occurred to me before; if you look at the letters in "Mean Girl" you'll find "Marine" hiding in there.  Thanks Cody!  If it weren't for you, I'd have never thought to look.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I hope Paul does disregard all their protests and puts two of them up

It might be worse than Cody not talking to them at all.

I thought I was going to hate him being in power 

[zorak]

Lots of questioning about the risks involved with Paul's plan.  Mark flat out said that if you don't have to use pawns to get someone out, why use pawns?  Paul is trying to convince them that he knows better than the rest of them.

[zorak]

All this talk by Paul about Raven needing to be on the block because Raven is so likeable that nobody would vote her out makes me think back to BB2 when Mike Boogie put Sheryl up against Nicole for the same reason and Sheryl went home.  I realize that the house dynamic is different in the current scenario but still.

[SiobhanJW]

The only thing Paul is currently doing is guaranteeing himself a spot in one of the Eviction chairs the first week he is eligible. Dude, put up Alex/Jason or just throw Cody & Jessica up there. 

Easy. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[zorak]

Kevin is spilling to Jason and Alex Paul's original plan to put up Matt and Raven.  Then he told Alex that the reason Paul wants to talk to Alex is because he wants to now put Alex on the block to backdoor Cody. 

[zorak]

Oh God.  Alex seems to be buying into Paul's idea of putting her up on the block.  Alex, don't agree to it!

And he thinks he's going to convince Josh to agree to go up against Alex by making Josh think he's part of a super important plan.

[zorak]

Now he is guaranteeing to Alex that Josh would go home over her in the event that the noms stay the same because the worst case scenario of back dooring Cody can't happen.  Anyone who would vote Josh out over Alex is an idiot from a competitive standpoint.  But Paul is telling her that everyone will vote Josh out over her because nobody wants him around.

Paul started this whole convo by explaining to Alex that his original plan involved putting up 2 pawns but then he realized the error of his ways and would feel stupid if he was responsible for one of the pawns going home.  But now he just told Alex that she and Josh would essentially be 2 pawns.  He's telling Alex that he won't put her up if she's not on board.

[zorak]

Paul has tried to sell this to Alex as a plan for Alex and Paul to have some sort of secret alliance that nobody will suspect.  She says she trusts him and it sounds to me like she's agreeing to go up. 

Paul doesn't think that the live feeders will do anything to fuck him over as HOH.  One can only hope that he's wrong.

[zorak]

Christmas just pointed out to Paul that if Alex and Josh go up there's still a possibility that Cody doesn't go home.  I think she just doesn't want there to be a possibility of Josh to go home in that scenario.

[zorak]

Well, Josh just agreed to go up.  But it'll be interesting to see what happens if Paul wins veto.  Josh made Paul promise him that if Paul wins veto Paul will pull Josh off the block.  But I'm pretty sure he promised Alex that he'd pull Alex off if he won. 

[PaperTree]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

BTW, does Paul look like Rasputin to anyone else?

Yes, but I think Rasputin was taller  :)

[Lamb18]

Did anyone hear anything further about a BB dogtag Ramses found? I gathered from the whispered conversations that he found it during the HOH competition and was in the Diary Room discussing it.

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, zorak said:

Well, Josh just agreed to go up.  But it'll be interesting to see what happens if Paul wins veto.  Josh made Paul promise him that if Paul wins veto Paul will pull Josh off the block.  But I'm pretty sure he promised Alex that he'd pull Alex off if he won. 

Well, if Paul actually wants Cody out and he does manage to win veto, his best bet is taking Josh off and leaving Alex next to Cody. First off, Cody's real lover is going to be right beside him, so we'll see a lot more cracked emotions and faulty programming. And second, nobody gets tempted to vote out Josh if he was up next to Cody.

You know, it kind of sucks because Cody's been the only one to go against Paul and be an active leader against him. Which is why part of me would gladly love to let Paul's plan fail so Cody sticks around long enough to take Paul out. Besides, Paul's an idiot for ONLY having Cody as a target and assuming it'll work, not even entertaining Jessica as Target B (we know this is the case seeing as HE WON'T PUT THE COUPLE UP). I really, really, really want it to fail now so we can watch him try to salvage his alliance. 

[Wings]

Jessica will not walk and leave Cody in the house alone with Alex!  

The dog tag probably came off a crew person during construction.  We would know if it had any significance. 

[MV007]

It really goes to show how awful Jessica is that it is taking away from my Josh hatred.  The kid does play the perpetual victim but Jessica can't be the one making that argument.  I know Cody is saying it too but Jessica is going along with it and its annoying from her.

Kevin is either playing brilliantly or being really dumb.  Regardless he seems to be one of the few people to want to target the girls from the showmances because they're doing nothing.  And really they're not.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a more transparent play for protection then Elena, Raven and Jessica. 

And I really don't know how nobody can see that Paul is leading everyone around by a leash.  These people are incredibly stupid.  They all thing he's their ride or die.

Edited July 7, 2017 by MV007

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, MV007 said:

Kevin is either playing brilliantly or being really dumb.  Regardless he seems to be one of the few people to want to target the girls from the showmances because they're doing nothing.  And really they're not.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a more transparent play for protection then Elena, Raven and Jessica. 

Yeah, I can't decide either. He's definitely one of the shadier players that people are underestimating. He's already taken the 25k, and now he's gone for a wonky vote, and he's placed the blame squarely on Ramses! I'm not sure whether he's playing smart or if he's setting himself up for a major fall if the secrets come out. Paul already knows both his secrets (or knows one for sure and suspects the other), and the other side of the house assumes that Kevin voted to keep Christmas, which is correct. I just have a feeling that Kevin's plan, whatever it may be, isn't as smart as he perceives it to be. I mean, The Outsiders haven't caught on and neither have Jody, but it's still very early, and anything could happen.

He does seem to be seeing more and wanting to make bigger moves. He's the one to remind Christmas that Jody needs to go up outright and now try to be backdoored in case it fails, and he's bringing information to The Outsiders, but not all of it. I'm really indecisive on him as a gameplayer at the moment.

[Wings]

15 minutes ago, MV007 said:

And I really don't know how nobody can see that Paul is leading everyone around by a leash.  These people are incredibly stupid.  They all thing he's their ride or die.

I see them letting him lead because his agenda matches theirs.  Everyone agrees, they want Cody out so why not let Paul do it?  If I were there I would.  When his safety is up things will change.  

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, I can't decide either. He's definitely one of the shadier players that people are underestimating. He's already taken the 25k, and now he's gone for a wonky vote, and he's placed the blame squarely on Ramses! I'm not sure whether he's playing smart or if he's setting himself up for a major fall if the secrets come out. Paul already knows both his secrets (or knows one for sure and suspects the other), and the other side of the house assumes that Kevin voted to keep Christmas, which is correct. I just have a feeling that Kevin's plan, whatever it may be, isn't as smart as he perceives it to be. I mean, The Outsiders haven't caught on and neither have Jody, but it's still very early, and anything could happen.

He does seem to be seeing more and wanting to make bigger moves. He's the one to remind Christmas that Jody needs to go up outright and now try to be backdoored in case it fails, and he's bringing information to The Outsiders, but not all of it. I'm really indecisive on him as a gameplayer at the moment.

I have the same thoughts.  He is on the verge of playing too hard.  He went overboard on pointing a finger at Ramses, it should have been a shorter conversation. 

It is time for him to circulate more and stop hanging out in the bedroom with Jason and Alex.  He is in a good position to stay under radar as lovable house dad.   He is a perfect pawn and may be used as such.  A trusty pawn can make it far.  

Edited July 7, 2017 by wings707

[MV007]

8 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I see them letting him lead because his agenda matches theirs.  Everyone agrees, they want Cody out so why not let Paul do it?  If I were there I would.  When his safety is up things will change.  

I guess its a chicken or the egg situation.  I see it as Paul manipulating them into thinking his agenda matches theirs.  I'm not sure eliminating Cody is in the couples best interests.  He's a bigger target and wants to work with them.

[Wings]

5 minutes ago, MV007 said:

I guess its a chicken or the egg situation.  I see it as Paul manipulating them into thinking his agenda matches theirs.  I'm not sure eliminating Cody is in the couples best interests.  He's a bigger target and wants to work with them.

Cody's anger is poison.  There is no benefit to keeping him.  Cody does not want to work with anyone, he has made that clear.  He is an angry, self absorbed bigot.  His way or no way.  

Edited July 7, 2017 by wings707

[gunderda]

10 hours ago, Artsda said:

Of course Production will let him choose.

Cody was suppose to choose also but he asked for volunteers and luckily got some.  I think last season or the one before was when they started just letting the HOH choose the have nots most of the time.  Last season they rarely showed it on the episodes. 

10 hours ago, Callaphera said:

If Paul gets to choose Have Nots this week, I really hope he chooses Cody and Jessica. I'm so tired of Have Not status not being used as game play. Fuck this volunteering, fuck the everyone getting a fair turn. Use the advantage the game is providing for you. Weaken your enemies. 

I think Cody either expects to be chosen or plans to volunteer.  Before the show yesterday he was in there saying he might as well try it out and see how it's going to feel (the beds)

10 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Why is the storage room so barren? It used to be a virtual supermarket before. Raven was just in there and it's empty.

With that many people in the house they go through food really fast.  But this group actually cleaned it yesterday.  Which I think was a first in BB history.

10 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Whew! I get all happy with their "store". You can have anything you want at anytime. Awesome! 

Almost... if they run out during the week then that's kinda SOL - even with milk!  Although I think sometimes if the have nots request more milk they will get some since that's one of the only things they can eat/drink. There have been some seasons where people have been pissed off at certain people for eating so much food and they run out (of like chicken... bacon....etc...)

10 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Pizza for supper! Putrefying pepperoni!

I can't figure out why everyone is against Ramses. What has he done to turn people against him? Or is he considered a "weak link" and therefore an easy target?

They think he's a snake.. he tends to pop in and out of rooms I think.  Every time someone talks about him I think they're talk about Paul but they're really talking about Ramses. That poor kid is screwed and his days are numbered.

10 hours ago, missyb said:

Kevin is running his own kind of game on these kids. I think he is having a gay old time watching them scramble , pound their chests and feel in control of him. 

 

9 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Kevin should be considered a national treasure. I kind of hate myself for making a snap judgement when the pre-show interviews came out, because I assumed he was going to be the "old man; creeper" contestant. But no, there he is, washing and folding the towels like the badass stay-at-home Dad he is, telling the girls how beautiful they look both in and out of their makeup, and telling the best stories this game has ever heard.

Played well, he's going to go far. I think he's going to end up over-playing and screwing himself just before jury but I enjoy the hell out of him. And if he is a threat to leave, I hope he goes full Ozzy from Survivor and pulls the whole, "You'll never survive without me fishing up all the food!", only replace fishing and food with washing and folding the towels.

I will be so freaking sad when someone discovers that Kevin is screwing around with everyone and they come at him with pitch forks!! 

[MV007]

13 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Cody's anger is poison.  There is no benefit to keeping him.  Cody does not want to work with anyone, he has made that clear.  He is an angry, self absorbed bigot.  His way or no way.  

What has Cody done to warrant being called a bigot?  I'm genuinely asking.  I know he had the whole "tranny" comment but while he was incredibly self-absorbed and arrogant in his defense of it, I also took him as being really naive and ignorant.

And while I don't think he would be easy to work with I do think he was interested in working with the other couples in the sense that he wanted to keep them in the house.  Having a physically dominating player on your team has value both in terms of keeping power and having an easy target for opposition to go after.

Edited July 7, 2017 by MV007

[ProfCrash]

Thanks for all the feed posts. I normally don't post because I don't follow the feeds.

"It's a risky plan, but not a terrible one. It reminds me of the book, Ender's Game, where a bunch of "special" kids are training in battlefield tactics In it, Ender wins the final simulation by doing some insanely risky procedures, including intentionally destroying a large chunk of his simulated ships. He's happy until he learns that the "simulation" was real. They just won a massive war, but killed many of their own men in doing so. "

Ender loses it because he realizes he committed a genocide by wiping out the enemy when he kills the queen. He was already burnt out from how hard he was being pushed and his risky maneuver was to bring everyone together into one large swarm so he could kill the queen. The rest of the Ender books focus on his trying to find a new home for the queen larva that he finds so that he can bring the race back. The only one to know that they were using real ships and people was Bean who figured out that they were not fighting in simulations but real battles.

Sorry, I love those books.

[Wings]

21 minutes ago, MV007 said:

What has Cody done to warrant being called a bigot?  I'm genuinely asking.  I know he had the whole "tranny" comment but while he was incredibly self-absorbed and arrogant in his defense of it, I also took him as being really naive and ignorant.

And while I don't think he would be easy to work with I do think he was interested in working with the other couples in the sense that he wanted to keep them in the house.  Having a physically dominating player on your team has value both in terms of keeping power and having an easy target for opposition to go after.

It was the trans comment and his tone.  I don't believe trans are his only hate target.   I have a lot of gay and lesbian friends thus sensitive to homophobic comments.   I don't see Cody as naive or ignorant, he knows what is up.  

I am not sure he can work with anyone now, given his attitude and actions.  I don't see it, anyway.  

Edited July 7, 2017 by wings707

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Why does Matt hero worship Paul so much? He's around 10 years older than Paul.

Yea, Matt's Paul worship is odd. But for me Matt is odd in general. I can't get a read on who he actually is because he always comes off to me like he's putting on a show.

10 hours ago, wings707 said:

He does that with Dom, too and a bit that way with Elena.  It is his way. 

I think maybe you're confusing Matt with Mark here. 

1 hour ago, MV007 said:

Regardless he seems to be one of the few people to want to target the girls from the showmances because they're doing nothing.  And really they're not. 

What are Matt and Mark doing that's so much more worthy of being there than Raven and Elena? Maybe Raven is doing less, but to me Mark/Matt/Elena/Dom are all on an even playing field as far as 'doing stuff' goes. And yet I've heard Kevin, Jason, Alex, and even Christmas whine about how the women are just using their sexuality to get further. Sigh. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think maybe you're confusing Matt with Mark here. 

I was, thanks!  

[ProfCrash]

I have not heard the transphobic comment but the former military guys that I work with, and pretty much all the Marines I work with, are really pissed off with Chelsea Manning and I know that she has influenced their feelings about transgender folks. I am not saying that it is the right attitude but that they associate her actions and recent release in a very negative light and have tied their feeling about her individual behavior to an entire group of people. But some of the more rational folks that I work with lose it on the transgender issue and they always go back to Manning.

It is not right but I suspect that Cody is responding in the same way that the retired Marines and Army, Navy, Air Force folks that I work with are responding. The only person they dislike more is Bowe Bergdahl, I work with people who were deployed when that went down and the stories they tell are pretty gnarly.

[vb68]

29 minutes ago, gunderda said:

I think Cody either expects to be chosen or plans to volunteer.  Before the show yesterday he was in there saying he might as well try it out and see how it's going to feel (the beds)

Both Cody and Paul said separately last night that they reached an accord that Cody and Jessica (Sorry I hate their stupid nickname lol) can be Have Nots, but Josh is not to be in there with them.   Mean kids through and through.  I guess it's easy to lash out at Josh without fear of much reprisal. But it's not a good look.

Paul said he would honor that.  Paul also told Kevin and Dom that if Josh was smart he would have baited Cody into throwing a punch, so Cody would be ejected.

Kevin: But you get a broken jaw that way.

Paul: Bob and weave (Paul does the motion to demonstrate.)

Dom: Josh might very well surprise Cody.

Kevin: No fucking way. It would be over in 30 seconds.

[peachmangosteen]

That could be an explanation of Cody's issues, but it certainly doesn't make it justifiable or anything.

Listen, Cody is a real shitty person, but I'm sorry, I don't wanna lose him quite yet. The comedy he provides is too good!

[MV007]

9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

What are Matt and Mark doing that's so much more worthy of being there than Raven and Elena? Maybe Raven is doing less, but to me Mark/Matt/Elena/Dom are all on an even playing field as far as 'doing stuff' goes. And yet I've heard Kevin, Jason, Alex, and even Christmas whine about how the women are just using their sexuality to get further. Sigh. 

Its about using perceptions.  Matt and Mark are perceived to be strong physically.  So these women have picked the biggest, strongest most fit men in the house and attached themselves to them.  These men are and should be perceived as major players because they can win comps that require physicality.  I don't know if anyone has ever looked at it but I would guess at least half the comps favor strong athletes, some of which would only let a strong athlete win.  So when you attach yourself to a player like that you gain the luxury of their wins and can use them as a shield when the shit hits the fan.  

I agree that none of them have really done anything, but it is about setting yourself up for the future and these girls have done that.  And I think some of the houseguests resent players who are seemingly handed safety based on who they attach themselves too.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, MV007 said:

I agree that none of them have really done anything, but it is about setting yourself up for the future and these girls have done that.  And I think some of the houseguests resent players who are seemingly handed safety based on who they attach themselves too.  

They only resent women who do this though, let's be real!

3 minutes ago, vb68 said:

I guess it's easy to lash out at Josh without fear of much reprisal. But it's not a good look.

Yea, no one looks good in this thing with Josh. Everyone treating him like shit is gross.

Edited July 7, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[watch2much]

Although I don't like him much, I voted for Cody to get the temptation because I'd like to see him stay if only because he seems to be the only one who sees Paul clearly.

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

That could be an explanation of Cody's issues, but it certainly doesn't make it justifiable or anything

100% agree. I just thought I would it toss it out as a possible explanation. I am not a huge Cody fan, mainly because his strategy makes no sense. He is trying to play everything close to the vest while being anti-social and still trying to control the game. That isn't going to work. I am not a big fan of showmances. He is arrogant and does not understand what happened that caused his alliance to fall a part. He seemed confused that people were upset with his Veto play and his nomination of Christmas so he lacks some critical thinking skills. If he is making transphobic comments it is another major strike against him .

[MV007]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They only resent women who do this though, let's be real!

 

I concede that.  But I don't know that its completely sexist.  These guys are major threats and the girls are using them for safety.  I think its a larger cultural question as to why we don't view men who attach themselves to women in this game in the same context.  But in this case its purely physical.  It is about Matt and Mark's physical dominance.  Thats why the women are viewed negatively.   It doesn't help that Elena is a zero when it comes to physicality and Raven has a million diseases that cause people to perceive her as weak. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by MV007

[peachmangosteen]

I just thought about all the times last week that Paul told his adoring minions that "the worst case scenario usually happens on BB" or some variant of that and now he's asking them to go on the block because the odds are totally good that it'll work out. These people are so stupid. At least the showmance group came to their senses and expressed doubts about it. Hopefully Alex will as well. 

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, MV007 said:

I concede that.  But I don't know that its completely sexist.  These guys are major threats and the girls are using them for safety.  I think its a larger cultural question as to why we don't view men who attach themselves to women in this game in the same context.  But in this case its purely physical.  It is about Matt and Mark's physical dominance.  Thats why the women are viewed negatively.

We expect young men to go out and sow their wild oats while we encourage young women to remain pure for their future husband. The idea of a man being attracted to a woman and spending a summer fawning over her, kissing her and having sex is fine because that is what we expect. The idea of a woman ruining her purity by mucking about with a man for the summer is reprehensible because we expect her to remain pure.

We have a long way to go before allow for women to be seeing as sexual equals in this country.

For me, I find the women who allow themselves to get involved in showmances as weak. Not because they are looking for a relationship but because they do not seem to feel that they could navigate the game without a man. I will say that I was impressed with how Jessica talked to Cody about the veto and then the nomination. I think she was pretty straight forward with him and was not kissing his ass that those were brilliant moves.

I have no problem with people who are thrown into this environment and watch something develop over the course of many weeks, not kissing and fondling in the first week. That is just basic lack of self control on both parties.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, MV007 said:

It is about Matt and Mark's physical dominance.  Thats why the women are viewed negatively.  

But why is the physical dominance made out to be the thing that makes one the better/more important player? Elena (and Dom) is running Mark. He is the weaker player in that scenario. Elena doesn't even really like him, she's just strategically using him to further herself in the game.

The women are viewed negatively because sexism is alive in well, particularly on BB. It happens every season. It's a pattern. Why do I still watch lol.

[zorak]

3 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just thought about all the times last week that Paul told his adoring minions that "the worst case scenario usually happens on BB" or some variant of that and now he's asking them to go on the block because the odds are totally good that it'll work out. These people are so stupid. At least the showmance group came to their senses and expressed doubts about it. Hopefully Alex will as well. 

Agreed.  After some of the group started openly questioning his plan to put up Matt and Raven, Paul said more than once to them that a lot can happen in one week in the BB house.  Exactly!  But in Paul's mind pointing this out would somehow calm their fears.  It made no sense. 

[peachmangosteen]

So the current plan is to nominate Alex and Josh (as 'pawns'), with Paul promising he'll use the veto on them if he wins it, right?

[missyb]

41 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Thanks for all the feed posts. I normally don't post because I don't follow the feeds.

"It's a risky plan, but not a terrible one. It reminds me of the book, Ender's Game, where a bunch of "special" kids are training in battlefield tactics In it, Ender wins the final simulation by doing some insanely risky procedures, including intentionally destroying a large chunk of his simulated ships. He's happy until he learns that the "simulation" was real. They just won a massive war, but killed many of their own men in doing so. "

Ender loses it because he realizes he committed a genocide by wiping out the enemy when he kills the queen. He was already burnt out from how hard he was being pushed and his risky maneuver was to bring everyone together into one large swarm so he could kill the queen. The rest of the Ender books focus on his trying to find a new home for the queen larva that he finds so that he can bring the race back. The only one to know that they were using real ships and people was Bean who figured out that they were not fighting in simulations but real battles.

Sorry, I love those books.

I loved those books as well. Orson Scott Card.  First three were so well written and conceived .