Season Seven: The Reset Anticipation/Apprehension/Dread Topic

[InsertWordHere]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

But OUAT feels very arrogant and hypocritical. It's a prime time television drama that places itself up there with Lost or other fictional masterworks

Meanwhile, the actual creator of LOST has a quality show on HBO and barely ever feels the need to make a LOST callback. Part of that could be because the show's not on ABC, but I think part of it is because he doesn't feel the need to make his new show look like LOST. Knowing how Lindelof writes his arcs, and knowing what this show has looked like these last few seasons, I 100% believe that rumor that he was helping A&E behind the scenes in the beginning. 

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

 Overall, it would be less of an official continuation. You could decide for yourself it it was canon or not. 

Someone on tumblr compared it to Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, but I find it very easy to not consider Cursed Child canon, no matter what JKR says about it. I imagine it's even easier for people to not consider the new Star Wars movies canon because George Lucas isn't involved. This is different. This is an A&E creation on the same network made in the same timeframe as the original six seasons. We don't even know if it will have the same music or the same title screen or what have you. It's most likely not going to be as different from the first six seasons as A&E are leading people to believe.

[Inquirer]

13 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Knowing how Lindelof writes his arcs, and knowing what this show has looked like these last few seasons, I 100% believe that rumor that he was helping A&E behind the scenes in the beginning. 

Is that really a rumor?  I think A&E outright admitted it in one interview.

[InsertWordHere]

4 minutes ago, Inquirer said:

Is that really a rumor?  I think A&E outright admitted it in one interview.

I think that's right, but IIRC, the extent of his involvement was in question and frankly I was too lazy to look it up. 

[Guest]

http://www.thewrap.com/once-upon-a-time-creators-cast-shakeup/

Sounds like Ginny and Josh told them a year ago that they were going to leave.

It certainly sounds like they are trying to sell the idea that people may pop up as guests.  I wish they had a better track record with guests or the final season of the leads so there might actually be a chance of that happening but I'm not going to hold my breather.

[Domenicholas]

With regards to Lucy's mother, here are some more suggestions along with the ones said before...

Alice and Cyrus’s daughter?

Lancelot and Guinevere’s future daughter?

Sidney Glass’s daughter?

Phoebus and Esmeralda’s daughter?

Milo and Kida’s daughter?

Tiana and Naveen’s daughter?

Aladdin and Jasmine’s future daughter?

Ursula (Goddess or mortal)?

Lily?

Tiger Lily?

A relative of Tamara?

Cinderella’s fairy godmother reborn?

A relative of Gus?

Pocahontas?

Moana?

Lilo?

Audrey?

Descendant of Kuzco?

Jafar’s bastard?

A relative of the Tin Woodsmen?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Descendant of Kuzco?

It's kind of sad, but this is the only suggestion that makes sense to me ethnically. 

[Souris]

27 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

http://www.thewrap.com/once-upon-a-time-creators-cast-shakeup/

God, could A&E be any more arrogant and dismissive of fans?

[Camera One]

Quote

OUAT” co-creators and executive producers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz tell TheWrap in an interview that they have known for the better part of a year that these cast members would be leaving

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As we said, we wanted to end the chapter to that first book. We had gone into the year always wanting to do that.

Quote

But this is stuff we’ve been talking about all year, so we’ve designed the whole season to reach this point. 

All this reinforces is how badly their planning is and/or how much they did NOT care about the characters that were leaving.

Quote

Adam Horowitz: To be quite honest, we haven’t looked at a lot of it because we can guess that the reactions [range] from, “I will never watch this show again,” and “Rot in hell.” But these are the same people two weeks ago that were saying, “When are they going to give someone their happy ending?” So if we listened to the internet, there’s too many voices and too many opinions.

Did he ever consider that maybe the insta-happy ending he gave the characters weren't satisfying to these fans?  No, these fans are just turncoat unreasonable people who don't know what they want.  

Quote

At the end of Season 1, we broke the premise of the show, and we broke the curse. And I think everybody would agree six seasons later that if Emma still didn’t believe in it, the show would not be on the air. So we felt it was time to end one adventure and begin a new one.

What a strawman argument.  No one is saying the show should never change.

Quote

 Josh and Ginny, we knew they were going to leave this year, so we wrote a year that allowed them to get their happy ending.

And yet they still hardly gave them any scenes with Emma.  How did alternating sleeping patterns "allow them to get their happy ending"?  They never thought maybe this core relationship deserved at least an episode?  Or a B plot?  C plot?  A conversation in the finale?  No?  

I meant to post this in the Writers' thread but there are too many quotes, so I can't move it easily.  If replying to this one, please do so there.  Thanks.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I was thinking about why they need Emma for one more episode.  One reason is definitely to explain why Hook is apart from her.  That could be as simple as asking Hook to look after Henry, since she isn't able to for some reason.  

But they also need Emma to validate the Older Henry as Henry.  The audience has to buy him as actually Henry, and having him interact with Emma would contribute to that buy-in.  

The original intent was to have her as an integral part of this reboot.  If that were the case, maybe there would have been some rift between she and Henry that occurred in the interim period.  The problem with these flashforward type scenario is it often feels quite manufactured.  So even if Jennifer Morrison had stayed, it would have been hard to make it a believable storyline with the time jump.

[Souris]

12 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was thinking about why they need Emma for one more episode.  One reason is definitely to explain why Hook is apart from her.  That could be as simple as asking Hook to look after Henry, since she isn't able to for some reason.  

But they also need Emma to validate the Older Henry as Henry.  The audience has to buy him as actually Henry, and having him interact with Emma would contribute to that buy-in.  

They have Regina to validate Older Henry. They don't need Emma for that. A&E even said there would still be Regina as Henry's mother.

I think Emma may fall victim to something that a TLK would have fixed (it fixes everything now), but Henry wasn't around to do it and it turns out she and Hook weren't actually True Love so his attempt doesn't work. There's a reason they very deliberately never let CS have a TLK while they were handing them out like candy to any other two people who appeared in the same scene once. They get rid of Emma and destroy CS in one fell swoop to free up Hook for Regina or some other romance. Plus explain Henry's disillusionment.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Souris

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, Souris said:

They have Regina to validate Older Henry. They don't need Emma for that. A&E even said there would still be Regina as Henry's mother.

Yes, but I think it's more convincing if Emma did the same.  I personally valued Henry's relationship with Emma way more, so if Emma wasn't there, I wouldn't buy Older Henry as easily (if I do, that is).

[SiobhanJW]

26 minutes ago, Souris said:

They have Regina to validate Older Henry. They don't need Emma for that. A&E even said there would still be Regina as Henry's mother.

I think Emma may fall victim to something that a TLK would have fixed (it fixes everything now), but Henry wasn't around to do it and it turns out she and Hook weren't actually True Love so his attempt doesn't work. There's a reason they very deliberately never let CS have a TLK while they were handing them out like candy to any other two people who appeared in the same scene once. They get rid of Emma and destroy CS in one fell swoop to free up Hook for Regina or some other romance. Plus explain Henry's disillusionment.

But they did a version of True Loves Kiss for them with the weighing of the Heart to get into the tomb in the underworld. So it was shown that they are eachothers True Loves. 

[Inquirer]

17 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

But they did a version of True Loves Kiss for them with the weighing of the Heart to get into the tomb in the underworld. So it was shown that they are eachothers True Loves. 

And there was also the pixie flower in 6x17.  TLK isn't the end-all be-all way to prove True Love.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Inquirer

[clairetvfanatic]

Yes, I have no doubt CS are TL.  Regardless of no TLK, even the characters knew they were.  Snow knew the flower would work and Henry seemed super happy about the fact when he was trying to get Emma to remember up on the roof.  I'm not sure why people are trying to act like the only reason CS will be apart next season is because they split up.  I don't think Hook and Henry would be adventuring together next season if that was the case PLUS she ISN'T the only character missing.  If only Emma wasn't returning next season I MIGHT buy that she had died or was taken or something, but never that she and Killian split up. Wherever Emma is, the Charmings and Belle and Zelena are probably there as well.

[Souris]

This show is a retcon on top of a retcon! It's totally in their wheelhouse to ignore those things or explain them away. Emma can be met in the light by her REAL True Love, Neal. That would make Henry the double product of True Love, which could be a key point in the show. Lucy would be the TRIPLE product, making her extra extra special.

Snowing, Belle and Zelena will be happily living in SB. They stay behind while the others go along with Henry on his adventure to help. Boom, their absence explained.

I find myself coming up with the worst possible outcomes. Sadly, they all seem plausible to me with TS, TW.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Souris

[RadioGirl27]

The writers don't care about CS, never have, so destroying it would not be a problem. The chances that Emma survives are very slim (or Hook, for that matter. I bet he is going to die by the end of the season). 

If at least 15 years have passed, Hook should be at least 45, Regina 55 and Rumple 70. Keeping them is such a mistake.

[Rumsy4]

50 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

If at least 15 years have passed, Hook should be at least 45, Regina 55 and Rumple 70. Keeping them is such a mistake.

There's probably another dumb curse and time is frozen whereever they are. The writers don't mind making fun of "old" Hook, but they'd never show Regina as an old hag. Rumple is the D'Dark One. He wont age any further, no matter what.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Rumsy4

[asabovesobelow]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yes, but I think it's more convincing if Emma did the same.  I personally valued Henry's relationship with Emma way more, so if Emma wasn't there, I wouldn't buy Older Henry as easily (if I do, that is).

I actually feel the opposite of this - Regina's relationship with Henry always meant more to me. She was his (only) mother for ten years, and I appreciate that they have shown the bond between adoptive mothers/children is just as strong as biological. I like that the show got back to that after downplaying it as Emma being Henry's 'real mom' in Season 1. (Which could certainly be due to the retcon of Regina not loving him, then in the next episode that was totally washed away. That's one storyline I'm glad they did away with.)

[Kktjones]

So I've been thinking about Regina in Season 7 (which is odd b/c she is not one of my favorite characters). But given there will be a 15-20 year jump, will Regina still be alone in the future? Will she have a partner/spouse/love interest? Or will we assume she has been happy during that time as a mother, sister, mayor etc.? Not saying there is anything wrong with that being the case, I'm just curious. And if she is alone, I wonder if they will set up another love story for her? Okay, I've now reached my limit in caring about Regina :).

[Noneofyourbusiness]

51 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

(Which could certainly be due to the retcon of Regina not loving him, then in the next episode that was totally washed away. That's one storyline I'm glad they did away with.)

I don't think they ever meant she really didn't love him, just that she wasn't very good at it (as she said in "We Are Both") back when she had that hole in her heart (the one they said was fixed when she chose to try to help Emma save him rather than maintain the Curse).

I also slightly prefer Henry around Regina than with Emma. He has her last name and is named after her father, after all.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[KingOfHearts]

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The writers don't mind making fun of "old" Hook, but they'd never show Regina as an old hag. 

Well, it is canon that anti-aging magic exists, outside of curses. Maybe Maleficent will lay another egg or she'll make a deal with Grandpa Rumple Who Sits At The Table.

Quote

But given there will be a 15-20 year jump, will Regina still be alone in the future? Will she have a partner/spouse/love interest?

I doubt it, since we just saw the EQ/Robin proposal. It was laughable in the Gilmore Girls Netflix reboot that after 10 years, none of the couples had gotten married. The pace was quick when the original series aired, slowed to a crawl for a decade, then picked up again for the reboot. "Oh, it's been 10 years... I guess it's time to tie the knot." They would totally do the same to Regina or any other single character. Henry only has a kid and an epic romance because plot.

Edited May 16, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[SiobhanJW]

So I posted the synopsis for Season 7 in another thread, but what struck me is "the residents of the Enchanted Forest face their greatest challenge yet" 

So have they all moved to the Enchanted Forest at this point? 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

So I've been thinking about Regina in Season 7 (which is odd b/c she is not one of my favorite characters). But given there will be a 15-20 year jump, will Regina still be alone in the future? Will she have a partner/spouse/love interest? Or will we assume she has been happy during that time as a mother, sister, mayor etc.? Not saying there is anything wrong with that being the case, I'm just curious. And if she is alone, I wonder if they will set up another love story for her? 

Hook. From the new season's logline, characters new and old search for True Love.

[SiobhanJW]

2 minutes ago, Souris said:

Hook. From the new season's logline, characters new and old search for True Love.

That doesn't mean Hook. It could mean they show us Henry & his True Love. Hook has already found his, so he doesn't need to search for it. 

[Souris]

2 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

That doesn't mean Hook. It could mean they show us Henry & his True Love. Hook has already found his, so he doesn't need to search for it. 

I'm staying firmly on the "expect the worst and anything else is a pleasant surprise" train.

[SiobhanJW]

I'm gonna venture a guess that Snowing & Neal (and any other Kids they might of had), Belle & Gideon (and any other kids she might of had with Rumple), Emma (and any kids she might of had with Hook), maybe Regina found someone and got married and had kids or maybe not. All get kidnapped or taken away or something, that is why these 3 specifically are together on the adventure together with Henry. Maybe if Jen stayed she would of been helping as well, but since she decided to go, she'll just be taken, kidnapped, sleeping, frozen whatever it is, with the rest of her family until they are rescued. 

[BoPeeps]

Knowing how these writers have jumped all over the plot map for six seasons, mangled characters and ignored canon by using the convenient usage of curses, none of what they say should be any real surprise.  

I wish Netflix had outright bought it and it was totally separated from ABC.  However, I will be more than content to see what transpires and give it a go.

Network TV in this day and age of Cable is hardly the power player it once was.  Old Rules are obsolete. The best shows, in my eyes, are cable spawned.

(yeah, admittedly, OUAT continues with 3 of my favorite characters. I lucked out. If it hadn't I would just watch something else.  Nothing I can do about any of it, anyway)

TV fiction has never totally pleased anyone but the actual writers and with the gigantic world of fan fic available, literally at any keyboard, fans can create their own continuing sagas.

A & E are more loyal and dedicated to their original premise...fractured fairy tales than they are anything else.   It still is massively appealing.  

If anyone continues to watch (I will until I get too bored) they should expect more of the same level of writing and pretty much the same attitude.

With the inclusion of curses and magic and memory wipes and immortality and overcoming death by any number of causes and suspension of disbelief as the norm, expecting solid character development and cohesive plot ...is futile!

Having this community has been the real pearl about this show.  Hopefully it will continue to be a gathering place.  Change quite often sucks.  But Change is the one thing that everyone seeks and fears at the same time.

[Rumsy4]

Quote

“After six seasons, the residents of the enchanted forest face their greatest challenge yet...

More than all the Realms disappearing? Okay...

[Proteus]

41 minutes ago, Souris said:

I'm staying firmly on the "expect the worst and anything else is a pleasant surprise" train.

I'm sorry but I don't buy Hook or Rumple getting new love stories.

[Souris]

3 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I'm sorry but I don't buy Hook or Rumple getting new love stories.

I hope you are right!

[superloislane]

2 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

(the one they said was fixed when she chose to try to help Emma save him rather than maintain the Curse)

They actually said it was filled by loving Henry which means the reward from her evil fixed any consequences from her evil. Isn't it great!

And she didn't choose to help Emma rather than maintain the curse. She very much did not think the curse would break and didn't think it needed to be maintained.

[Mari]

10 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

 

If at least 15 years have passed, Hook should be at least 45, Regina 55 and Rumple 70. Keeping them is such a mistake.

Rumple's still the Dark One.  Unless one of their surprise twists is that he unDarkOned, he wouldn't have aged.

 

The only thing I can think of that remotely makes sense for the characters who have left and who have stayed is that there was some sort of curse that tore Henry away from everyone, and he either doesn't remember--which A&E love to do--or thinks they abandoned him.  Meanwhile, everyone's stuck somewhere, waiting to be rescued.  

 

So, will Rumple be a protagonist, an antagonist, or the whimsical whirlwind of back and forth he has been?  Sometimes twirling to multiple positions in a single episode.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, superloislane said:

They actually said it was filled by loving Henry which means the reward from her evil fixed any consequences from her evil. Isn't it great!

And she didn't choose to help Emma rather than maintain the curse. She very much did not think the curse would break and didn't think it needed to be maintained.

Well, that's what A&E said in an interview around Season 2. That the hole was filled when she prioritized Henry over the Curse in the Season 1 finale.

[Shanna Marie]

I doubt the network would let them break up Emma and Hook after they spent five seasons getting them together. The network would have to know that would kill ratings for the reboot so badly that the Nielson meters would spin backward, plus it would damage the rewatch value for the whole series, which is Netflix's big stake in this game. It sounds like adult Henry is going to be our romantic leading man for season 7, with his "epic" romance that produces Lucy -- the Charming role from season one and the Hook role from seasons 2-6. Hook will be relegated to the Charming role from seasons 2-6. They'll probably use Jen's appearance in the premiere to establish that, yes, they are together still and to set up a reason why we won't see Emma after that.

[superloislane]

They keep saying that Henry's romance with the mother of Lucy (did they say that girl's name was Lucy in the finale because I didn't know what her name was) is EPIC. It's an epic romance like Snow White and Prince Charming and it's going to be a BIG part of next season! And they also keep talking about the show trending and how it does well on social media. I just get the feeling that they realllly want this to be the new 'ship' so they can trend on Twitter since they're getting rid of all the others.

[Souris]

They apparently used a clip of the CS wedding in a moments montage at the upfronts.

#OnceUponATime will see the returning actors in new roles and identities next season. #ABCUpfronts (Source)

"Season 7 will focus on the adventures of a grown-up Henry, and Hook, Regina and Rumple return with new identities and in a new city" #OUAT (Source)

Discuss.

Cursed, I guess.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Souris

[SiobhanJW]

11 minutes ago, Souris said:

They apparently used a clip of the CS wedding in a moments montage at the upfronts.

#OnceUponATime will see the returning actors in new roles and identities next season. #ABCUpfronts (Source)

"Season 7 will focus on the adventures of a grown-up Henry, and Hook, Regina and Rumple return with new identities and in a new city" #OUAT (Source)

Discuss.

Cursed, I guess.

Hell if I know. Haha. 

Cursed makes the most sense, since Regina, Hook & Rumple have never had cursed personalities. Yeah Rumple was called Mr. Gold- but didn't he know all along, I forget these things. It's been awhile. Haha. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[RadioGirl27]

25 minutes ago, superloislane said:

They keep saying that Henry's romance with the mother of Lucy (did they say that girl's name was Lucy in the finale because I didn't know what her name was) is EPIC. It's an epic romance like Snow White and Prince Charming and it's going to be a BIG part of next season! And they also keep talking about the show trending and how it does well on social media. I just get the feeling that they realllly want this to be the new 'ship' so they can trend on Twitter since they're getting rid of all the others.

Everytime they talk about how epic it's going to be I think about every other ship un Once that it is not CS ir Snowing. These writers are bad writting romance (Swanfire, Ruby and Dorothy, Outlaw Queen...)

7 minutes ago, Souris said:

They apparently used a clip of the CS wedding in a moments montage at the upfronts.

#OnceUponATime will see the returning actors in new roles and identities next season. #ABCUpfronts (Source)

Discuss.

Cursed personalities.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

28 minutes ago, superloislane said:

 (did they say that girl's name was Lucy in the finale because I didn't know what her name was) 

Yes, when she introduced herself. "My name is Lucy, I'm your daughter."

[Souris]

Matt Mitovich: In #OnceUponATime "reboot," Hook, Evil Queen & Rumplestiltskin "return but with new identities in a new city, facing a new curse." #Upfront

So they were probably going to have Emma and Hook in the Snowing roles from S1 but without Jen, that won't happen. Maybe they'll just put Emma in a coma that she doesn't wake up from.

I'm telling you, Hook and Regina will be married in this curse. 

So creative. Much surprise. They are Officially. Creatively. Bankrupt. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Souris

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, Souris said:

So they were probably going to have Emma and Hook in the Snowing roles from S1 but without Jen, that won't happen. 

Gahhhhhhh. This is all I ever wanted out of whatever weird Season 7 we were going to get. When they first mentioned a revamped Season 7 back in winter, I hoped we'd finally get see Emma and Hook deal with being cursed like Snow and David from Season 1. Damn it, Jen, come back!

[CCTC]

Wait - they would not simply copy the same style of curse as the first season with people trapped in false identities with the little moppet trying to convince Henry to believe would they?

[Shanna Marie]

Just now, CCTC said:

Wait - they would not simply copy the same style of curse as the first season with people trapped in false identities with the little moppet trying to convince Henry to believe would they?

Did you watch this season's finale? And all the other times they've used the same curse? They so totally would.

[SiobhanJW]

I have a feeling whomever cast this curse did it to separate the "Villains" from the "Heroes"- the Heroes are off somewhere trapped while the Villains are sent away to a cursed place. Henry gathers the Villains, and they regain their memories and try and rescue the world and get their heroes back. 

Great I've scripted it for everyone. I should go work on a TV show. Haha. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[Souris]

I'm still laughing. It's just so embarrassing and pathetic! I guess they can save money on the writers' salaries by just reusing S1 scripts and changing names.

It's preposterous. What a laughingstock.

[oncebluethrone]

I actually wouldn't mind a repeat of Season 1. I really like the idea of Killian, Regina, and Gold having cursed memories because they never did (did Gold have his memories?).

[scarynikki12]

Gold got his memories back in the pilot when he heard Emma's name. Not that it was made clear in the episode but it was later clarified. 

[Souris]

A&E: "So it's S1, but Emma is in the Mary Margaret role and--"

Jen: https://goo.gl/images/K5F5SX

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Matt Mitovich: In #OnceUponATime "reboot," Hook, Evil Queen & Rumplestiltskin "return but with new identities in a new city, facing a new curse." #Upfront

So they were probably going to have Emma and Hook in the Snowing roles from S1 but without Jen, that won't happen. Maybe they'll just put Emma in a coma that she doesn't wake up from.

Well now they have the opportunity to play out the Charming dies version the originally planned for with Emma.

In all seriousness, I am thinking the following:

- Hook, Rumple, Regina, and Henry may just be living in Seattle rather than being in another version of Storybrooke and part of the show is bringing them all together and convincing them that they are fairy tale characters

- I think they may simply extract Hook, Regina, and Rumple from Storybrooke in the premiere via flashback (where only Emma appears) and all the heroes are fine but isolated and everyone else doesn't remember Storybrooke or the book doesn't explain where it is or the book explains that they can't get in or says its destroyed (when it isn't)

- Reasonable bet that if there are any guest appearances they will all be in flashback

[Shanna Marie]

So, if they get new identities, would it be too much to hope that Hook's alter ego has an Irish accent? Whale had a different accent as Whale than he did as Victor Frankenstein. And maybe whatever curse should give his hand back because the hook would be kind of a dead giveaway, or at least a trigger, to his real identity. Yeah, there are other explanations than being Captain Hook, but it is a possible clue.