Looking - General Discussion

[Bosman]

Patrick insisting on wearing the dog sweater to work sums up the character perfectly - immature, reckless, needy, self-involved. I'm really curious about how this character is written, because it is very very difficult to root for him. And I pray that Richie is NOT pining for Patrick, but there doesn't seem much worth pining over.

[SFoster21]

If we followed Richie around the way that we follow Patrick, I'll bet we'd find plenty to criticize about his maturity, etc. Patrick is no more a "mess" than anyone else I've known. He's kind, intelligent and makes a good living doing something he likes. He's creative and sensitive. And hella fine. Kevin is lucky.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SFoster21

[sugarbaker design]

Patrick is no more a "mess" than anyone else I've known.

 

He was banging his attached boss, that's high up there on the mess scale.

[Fisher King]

He's creative and sensitive. And hella fine. Kevin is lucky.

 

Yes, just don't go barefoot and step on broken glass.

It seems that Patrick leaves broken glass everywhere lately.

[SFoster21]

He was banging his attached boss, that's high up there on the mess scale.

Never been known to happen in recorded history. Way up there on the sociopath scale.

[NorthstarATL]

If we followed Richie around the way that we follow Patrick, I'll bet we'd find plenty to criticize about his maturity, etc. Patrick is no more a "mess" than anyone else I've known. He's kind, intelligent and makes a good living doing something he likes. He's creative and sensitive. And hella fine. Kevin is lucky.

Tastes vary. of course. I find Patrick obnoxiously self-involved. A sink-hole of neediness. And not at all attractive. One man's trash is another man's treasure, though.

 

They're going to have to keep themselves and their opinions in check around Patrick. Something that they have never known they had to do before.

Yes. I can see having to revisit all of your previous conversations with your co-worker in your memory just to see whether you might have said this or that which might have been inoccuous between co-equals, but trouble when involving the significant other of the boss. Not to mention that every accolade or bonus or benefit Patrick receives is now suspect.

  

 

Patrick wanting to wear Kevin's sweater to work came off as very high school to me. It's one thing to want to wear your boyfriend's sweater in the house or out to lunch, but wearing it to work when you are dating YOUR BOSS seems tacky on top of immature.

Also, the excuse of not having done laundry in three weeks is not terribly endearing. I DID relate to Patrick's point about dating someone one's own size in order to double one's wardrobe. I actually hung onto a relationship longer than I should have due to the fact that I'd never ever be able to wear anything that expenseive again. (It remains true to this day.)

 

When Richie first saw Patrick and Kevin and asked if they were together, I noticed how fast Patrick responded and deflected the question. It seemed like he did not want Richie to know that he was with Kevin. Kevin's reaction was to invite Brady and Richie to dinner and pointedly state that they would be on a double date. Does this mean that Patrick is still waffling?

 We never seem to have an event that Richie isn't involved in. I was surprised he wasn't at the funeral last episode. I DO think Patrick wants Richie to be there as a back-up plan. But that may also be the writers.

      

 

The only thing suspect about it is that it was probably a convenient way for Richie and Patrick to have that private conversation.  I do not think there is any hanky panky going on or intended.

Yeah, that was too contrived. No guy wants company to barf. That's usually women, and involves hair holding.

 

Is there anyway that the Glorified guy can be a series regular?

"Twincest!"

I loved the snark, and there's a touch of truth in that. I was embarassed that I recognized one of the porn actors!

 

The Jessie Ware song playing in the dance scene was very good.

The entire album/cd is awesome! Get it!

 

I'll give Augustin a pass -- he seems to realize that he is naive about dating a HIV+ person, and is trying.

Yeah, but I don't give Eddie a pass. I realize that Augustin entered into a sexual relationship of his accord and with full knowledge of Eddie's status, but demeaning a very real concern for one's own health is unfair, IMO. I do not personally expect anyone I am seeing to be as well versed about my disease as I am, and my health is my responisibilty as is theirs.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Richie first saw Patrick and Kevin and asked if they were together, I noticed how fast Patrick responded and deflected the question. It seemed like he did not want Richie to know that he was with Kevin. Kevin's reaction was to invite Brady and Richie to dinner and pointedly state that they would be on a double date. Does this mean that Patrick is still waffling?

I think it was more that Richie has been judgmental about Patrick's relationship with Kevin (with good reason). On top of that, Patrick confessed to sleeping with Kevin while still dating Richie when they drove back from San Leandro. Between those two things and Patrick's Halloween meltdown, Richie has seen nothing good about Patrick's relationship with Kevin. All Richie sees is Patrick having sex with his married boss aka making terrible choices. I think that's why Patrick was reluctant to tell Richie that he was officially dating Kevin.

[shrewd.buddha]

If we followed Richie around the way that we follow Patrick, I'll bet we'd find plenty to criticize about his maturity, etc.

I do think Patrick's character suffers from overexposure - - but why he is annoying is mostly the fault of the writers. Patrick was wedged into the funeral episode because Jonathan Groff is the central character each week. (I guess the show was built around him.) What Patrick said and did while there was the writers' decision.

The actions and behavior we see are mostly of the embarrassing and self indulgent variety. I think Patrick is supposed to be SJP's Carrie from Sex andthe City and his antics are part of the dramedy. ...Despite the producers trying to distance themselves from that show...

Edited March 9, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[vixenbynight]

But, I think that there are alot of "Patricks" in the real world, that do behave in this way and it's not something that folks, want to see.

Just like how folks, don't want to see Richie, being judgemental over how Patrick has treated him.

Richie's accused of being this "Saintly Magical Mexican Gary Sue", but when he actually has moment of being hurt by Patrick's behavior, then he's judgemental jerk, who doesn't see that Patrick and Kevin are "meant to be".

Edited March 10, 2015 by vixenbynight

[Irlandesa]

People insult him and he smiles

After his confrontation with "glory hole" guy, he wasn't smiling, he was grimacing.

 

 Maybe people are reading into things too much (or hoping) for some kind of crash and burn with Kevin as the villain.

 

It's possible I'm reading too much into things and that this is an epic tale of love between two self-centered men, one  who lied and cheated on his boyfriend for months and another who is a neurotic mess.  Perhaps, in episode ten, they'll be together planning their problem free future.  

 

But I don't think so.  Andrew Haigh's Weekend was a beautiful, but realistic, love story.  Despite more "plotty" aspects of this second season, I also feel like that Looking is going for a sense of realism.  It's why they touched on Patrick's issues with dating someone with a different class and race and how that ended up nixing that romance in the bud.  It's why Doris's father's funeral and her grief felt so real.  That realism also crept in when Doris went to Vallejo with Malik.  There's this weird sense of abandonment when someone with whom you spend so much time suddenly has less time once they get a significant other which I think we saw in Dom.

 

There is also a sense of morality to this show.  Agustin got dumped by Frank and his job in the first season.  Richie left Patrick.  Dom [temporarily] got his man once he was willing to choose love over a business relationship. 

 

I don't see everyone against them in this episode as an "us vs. them."  Agustin is going through a redemptive arc and isn't the worst person in the world so I don't think his dislike of Patrick/Kevin is supposed to seen through his bitter glasses the way his dislike of Richie was last season.  Patrick and Kevin's co-workers not being thrilled with the fact that their co-worker is dating their boss is a very realistic emotion to have. Megan loved Jon and his pairing with Kevin so is she supposed to agree with what Patrick did just because he's her brother?  Even glory hole guy, while hypocritical, had some legitimate complaints about Patrick and Kevin's app.  I'd seen similar commentary online when the game was first introduced in Ep 2 or 3 of this season.  It's not an "us vs. them" story, IMO, it's an "hey assholes, you might think you guys are a 'match' but shitty actions have repercussions in the real world" story.

 

Part of my reason for thinking this won't end well for them relates back to something Jon Groff has said in the media that I could be wholly misinterpreting.  It was vague. But all of those reasons are why I think it'll end.  I also don't think it will have much to do with Richie.

 

If we followed Richie around the way that we follow Patrick, I'll bet we'd find plenty to criticize about his maturity, etc. Patrick is no more a "mess" than anyone else I've known.

But we don't follow Richie around.  All we get is what we're presented. It's similar to Jon.  I read a whole lot of speculation about him being a bad boyfriend and the relationship being super rocky yet every time we saw him with Kevin, he looked doting.  It wasn't much screen time but I have to think the creators were trying to make it clear that the issues in their relationship were all a part of Kevin otherwise they would have taken that screen time to show a different kind of relationship than the one they did.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Irlandesa

[SimoneS]

Well, they have successfully distanced Looking from Sex in the City and I mean that not in a good way.

[vixenbynight]

Jon had to be the "bad boyfriend" to justify Kevin and Patrick’s behavior.

Just like how, Richie has to be "judgemental", for showing that Patrick's behavior towards him and their relationship really hurt him.

[Momof2boyz]

Kevin never actually said that Jon was a bad boyfriend or even that they were having problems. That's what Kevin told his friends. What he said was "I don't have THIS with John," meaning he didn't have that connection he had with Patrick.

[Garnett7]

 

That's right. He didn't call, because he was in love with Kevin. Could there be any doubt, looking at the four of them, that the pairings made sense? Sorry, Richie and Patrick are not a pair to me.

 

And my point is -- why can't Patrick just own that? Put his damn big girl panties on and own it, not try to make it a "Gee, I fell into this relationship with Kevin because you told me blah blah blah, Richie". He's not with Richie because of a concern Richie expressed. He's not with Richie because he chose instead to enter an affair with Kevin. So don't lay it on Richie like that, own it like an adult.

 

I am NOT a Richie/Patrick fan. I'm the biggest Anti!Richie/Patrick fan you can find because I can't stand Patrick. I have zero clue why the writers think this neurotic mess of immaturity, selfishness and endless issues is a rootworthy character. All I do is find myself rooting that someone will throat punch him. 

[sinkwriter]

 

I have zero clue why the writers think this neurotic mess of immaturity, selfishness and endless issues is a rootworthy character.

 

I guess it depends on how one views Patrick. I don't see him as selfish or un-rootworthy. I like his flaws, and I feel like I understand and relate to some of his insecurities and self-esteem issues (I especially noticed them bubble up a few times when he was worried about how fat he looked in comparison to Kevin in the prom picture and again when the very rude drunken Brady made a comment about how he shouldn't eat too many pancakes). I see that Patrick is a huge mess, but that only gives me more impetus to root for him to eventually figure it out and become better / stronger / healthier.

My heart ached for Dom in this episode. I don't think I've ever seen him so alone. His friends are all coupled up, he's lost Lynn, all he's got is this potential chicken window, something he's dreamed about for a very long time but I imagine would be much sweeter if he had someone special in his life to share it with. It's hard to be the lone single one sometimes, especially as you hit 40 and start to see that your life isn't going exactly the way you thought it would 20 years ago when you were first starting out.

[sinkwriter]

This made me laugh:

 

DOM: Why am I the go-to "I'm having an AIDS meltdown" friend? 

AGUSTIN: Because you're old.

(Dom gives him a look)

AGUSTIN: And wise.

 

Heee.

[joelene]

I loved the snark, and there's a touch of truth in that. I was embarassed that I recognized one of the porn actors!

Heh, Connor Maguire, amirite? He should be a regular next season, just lounging about in his underwear in the background of every scene.

I love Gabe Liedman who played the twincest weelchair guy, so that helped in finding the character to be hilarious. He's also a writer for Brooklyn Nine-Nine and is best friends with Jenny Slate. There's a great standup clip of him about gay dating up on YouTube for those interested. Just search Gabe Liedman in Story League Stands Up.

On the episode, I hate to say it, but Russell Tovey's recent comments about effeminate gay men on twitter really ruined him and his character on the show for me.

More Doris, show.

[vixenbynight]

Kevin never actually said that Jon was a bad boyfriend or even that they were having problems. That's what Kevin told his friends. What he said was "I don't have THIS with John," meaning he didn't have that connection he had with Patrick.

What's "this connection" that is supposedly between Patrick and Kevin, that wasn't there between him and Jon?

It took Kevin, a long time to sever his relationship with Jon, in order to make his "connection" be made public with Patrick. Something, that Patrick had to demand him to do. He ended their affair and almost told the truth, in a sad and drunken night.

Yet, those two are really cute together.

It's not an "us vs. them" story, IMO, it's an "hey assholes, you might think you guys are a 'match' but shitty actions have repercussions in the real world" story.

Agreed and that's why I'm interested to see how Patrick's public relationship with Kevin, is viewed by his family. Edited March 10, 2015 by vixenbynight

[NorthstarATL]

Heh, Connor Maguire, amirite? He should be a regular next season, just lounging about in his underwear in the background of every scene.

Yep! And yes indeed!

[Kat From Jersey]

That's right. He didn't call, because he was in love with Kevin. Could there be any doubt, looking at the four of them, that the pairings made sense? Sorry, Richie and Patrick are not a pair to me.

Kevin may be a serial cheater and maybe he will break Patrick's heart, but Patrick is happy. People insult him and he smiles. The world hates lovers; they're boring and they leave us out, and it always ends in tears or routine, but, shit, let the beauties have their day.

 

Agreed.  I just never got Richie and Patrick together, and I'm truthfully not a Richie fan.  I actually love Patrick and Kevin together, but yeah, it should be interesting to see how far their relationship will go.  Wearing the dog sweater was so passive-aggressive.  Such a Patrick move.

 

Not a huge Agustin fan, but man, that boy is adorable!  Don't break Eddie's heart, Augie!

Edited March 11, 2015 by Kat From Jersey

[biakbiak]

Having worked in HR at two small gaming firms in San Francisco, I wouldn't think that there would be any actual fallout from Patrick and Kevin's relationship.

[Irlandesa]

For a show on the verge of cancelation, some of the Looking actors are doing a lot of promotion lately.  There's the Paley fest.  They apparently did a radio interview on Sirius FM.  Raul and Jon Groff have been doing some interviews.  I'm hoping this means HBO is at least considering a third season, even if the third is the final season.

 

Jonathan took over Raul's Instagram as they hung out on Sunday.  There are some cute videos/pictures and they watched the show with Murray Bartlett.

 

Monday, Jon and Raul were on "Ask Me Another" which isn't up yet but I imagine you can find it here.

 

Ausiello also has something about the [hopefully season] finale.

 

I’m dying for any scoop on Looking! —Renata
Gay hookup app Grindr plays a supporting role in the March 22 Season 2 finale, which, not so coincidentally, is very much focused on Kevin and Patrick’s nascent relationship. Also, the C-word is thrown around quite a bit. Just a heads-up.

 

I could be wrong but I'm guessing Grindr is related to Patrick & Kevin and Patrick deciding what kind of relationship he wants to be in.  Grindr was so not what I was expecting.  I thought he'd find out Jon dumped Kevin, not that Kevin was picking up dudes online.

[Corgi-ears]

The Inside the Episode hasn't been posted yet, so here it is:

 

 

Contains Andrew Haigh/Michael Lannan interactions, and especially notable for Andrew's slightly horrified reaction to the question of whether he would consider himself a bear. Heee.

[romantic idiot]

I've been thinking about Patrick's sister's reaction, and i have to say - she isn't terribly supportive of him, I see no reason why he should pay attention to her. 

[DollEyes]

Interesting episode. The main characters needed cast-iron umbrellas, what with all the anvils that were falling. Patrick & Kevin were the most anviliicious of all. If I didn't already believe that Patrick & Kevin were doomed from the start, this episode would have convinced me. Patrick's dropping his & Kevin's breakfast on the floor is the perfect metaphor for their future-it started out nice and with the best intentions, but ended up as just a big, fat mess. Patrick's comparing his & Kevin's affair to Brangelina's  is more proof of how delusional Patrick is where he & Kevin are concerned. Brangelina may have started as an affair, but it became a marriage and a family-two things I don't see in Patrick & Kevin's future, not that they'll actually have one together for much longer anyway.

 

  One of the many problems with Patrick and Kevin's involvement is its immaturity. Patrick has used Kevin to relive the high-school experiences he's never had, whether it's making out with a guy under  the bleachers, taking a guy to the prom or spending prom night with him. As childish as Patrick & Kevin have been acting, it's a wonder they haven't passed notes in the hallway between meetings. And that clothes-sharing shit isn't just high-school; it's middle school. The way Patrick & Kevin told their co-workers about their affair was selfish, childish and ultimately, clueless, like everything else about them, separately and together. Patrick & Kevin's revelation not only made things awkward between Patrick & his colleagues in general and Patrick & Owen in particular, if Owen remembers that bullshit excuse about why Patrick was late returning to work that day a few months ago, does the math and realizes just how long Patrick & Kevin have been together, chances are he'll be pissed at Patrick and rightfully so because of Patrick's lying to him and betraying Jon, which Owen probably won't have the nerve to say to Patrick's face anyway because he doesn't want to get fired.

 

  Patrick & Kevin's dropping the bomb on their colleagues and not expecting any major damage is yet another nail in the coffin re their odds for the future. If push came to shove and Kevin was asked to choose between his job and Patrick, something tells me that Patrick is going to lose.  I've also got no problem with Megan's apparent calling Patrick out in next week's episode because given his behavior all season long where Kevin is concerned, it's about time somebody did. I have no problem with Richie's judging Patrick either because if someone whom I had romantic feelings for treated me as badly as Richie treated Patrick for most of S1 and tried to blame me for it like Patrick did to Richie in this episode, I'd judge them too. However, as shitty as I find Patrick & Kevin, I hated the "Glorified" guy. This dude had the nerve to lecture Patrick about perpetuating gay stereotypes and his app isn't even a hook-up app, it's a suck-off one. Whatever. Bye Felicia.

[romantic idiot]

How exactly did Patrick treat Richie badly last year? He defended Richie to his friends, he was talking Richie to his sister's wedding. Was he concerned about it? Yes - he'd never brought anyone home before. But he was doing it. Then he was hassled and harassed and late, and Richie was the one who was trying to tie Patrick's tie while Patrick was driving. Knowing that Patrick was feeling uptight. Richie is the one who got his feelings hurt and stomped off. And then cut off all communication. I'm sorry, last season, I could see clearly why Patrick and Richie were not a good fit (even though Richie was supposed to be "good" for Patrick) and I didn't see Patrick behaving badly towards Richie. The only one who has a legitimate beef to be angry with Patrick, IMO, is Jon, and even there the blame goes on Kevin who was the one cheating. 

 

And don't get me started on Meghan. I'm sorry, it should be bros before hos, and she's supporting a man she's just met over her own brother. And this is the person Patrick is supposed to listen to, even though she doesn't think much of him? I don't think so. 

 

And while yes, I do see the writing on the wall for the Kevin / Patrick relationship, I can't help but be sad, because they looked so happy together. In love. And Kevin handled Patrick's neuroses so calmly. Not with anger or irritaton, just acceptance. Understanding that Patrick, is, justifiably, feeling a little insecure because of how they started. Patrick in turn, is just so all in for Kevin, just so into him...it's so sweet. 

[fastiller]

 However, as shitty as I find Patrick & Kevin, I hated the "Glorified" guy. This dude had the nerve to lecture Patrick about perpetuating gay stereotypes and his app isn't even a hook-up app, it's a suck-off one. Whatever. Bye Felicia.

I'm there with you, DollEyes.  Dear Kettle, Love Pot and all...

[Bosman]

Patrick is clearly trying to relive his high school days all over again through Kevin. It's very…sad. 

 

As I recall, Patrick stood there slack-jawed and said not a word while Agustin insulted Richie. Then Patrick made up some lame story about Richie opening his own shop, so that HE would look better to his boss. And maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I would call running off to have a late-night booty call with his partnered boss as treating someone badly. Plus, has Patrick once spared a thought about Jon? Showed any remorse or guilt? No. I won't go far as to say that Patrick is a not a good person, but I will say that he is not a good grownup. 

[SimoneS]

I thought season 2 was HBO's pity renewal. I would be surprised if it gets a season 3, but the actors might as well as do tons of publicity to try and save the titanic.

[Irlandesa]

I don't think it was a pity renewal as much as HBO tends to give its comedies a second shot.  (Maybe its dramas as well.)

 

I think it could go either way.  Getting On was renewed (and canceled) for a third season even though it had pretty low ratings. 

[Irlandesa]

And don't get me started on Meghan. I'm sorry, it should be bros before hos, and she's supporting a man she's just met over her own brother. And this is the person Patrick is supposed to listen to, even though she doesn't think much of him? I don't think so. 

But what if your bro is the ho, yo? 

 

I think there's a difference between supporting Patrick and accepting his actions blindly.   Not only did her brother's actions hurt someone she seems to care about but now her brother is with someone she knows to be a liar and a cheater. 

 

But I don't think Patrick will pay her heed.  He's not paying anyone heed.  He's in some kind of bliss bubble, ignoring even Kevin when he tries to point out that that some of what they're doing isn't smart.  

 

Knowing that Patrick was feeling uptight.

I don't care that Patrick was uptight.  Not one bit.  And here's why...when Patrick invited Richie to the wedding, Richie said "no."  It was after the disasterous birthday party and he didn't think they were ready for meeting the family.  Patrick insisted it'd be all right.  So when the day of the wedding came around, Richie got himself ready from shaving, a suit...heck, even the marijuana to deal with the nerves.  Patrick, on the other hand, didn't do what he needed to do to get himself prepared.  And since he did the inviting and the insisting, it was incumbent on him to step up and make the process smooth.  He failed.

 

Patrick's fault in both relationships has been failing to see the bigger picture. 

[romantic idiot]

But what if your bro is the ho, yo? 

 

Still bros before his :o)

I think there's a difference between supporting Patrick and accepting his actions blindly.   Not only did her brother's actions hurt someone she seems to care about but now her brother is with someone she knows to be a liar and a cheater.

That Kevin is a liar and a cheater doesn't seem to be issue to her. Her concern is that Jon is hurt (and that Jon & Kevin were perfect - which is obviously  evidently, wrong). She's known John/Jon for, at max, a month, because that's how long it's been since Patrick and Kevin hooked up, and she'd never met Jon before that. I am assuming she's known Patrick for much longer. So yeah, don't buy her sudden case of caring for this man. She cares because Gus cares, so she's basically choosing her husband over her brother. 

I don't care that Patrick was uptight.  Not one bit.  And here's why...when Patrick invited Richie to the wedding, Richie said "no."  It was after the disasterous birthday party and he didn't think they were ready for meeting the family.  Patrick insisted it'd be all right.  So when the day of the wedding came around, Richie got himself ready from shaving, a suit...heck, even the marijuana to deal with the nerves.  Patrick, on the other hand, didn't do what he needed to do to get himself prepared.  And since he did the inviting and the insisting, it was incumbent on him to step up and make the process smooth.  He failed.

But Patrick wasn't uptight about Richie. He was still happy with Richie going. Patrick was upset because they were running late, and then got even later. And because his family seems to be a pain. Patrick's family being a pain will not go away later, so, I did feel Richie bailed at the first sign of trouble. And because of Richies own insecurities, which he'd been feeling. So, I don't give Richie a free pass on this. YMMV, of course. And evidently does. 

[Momof2boyz]

 

 

But Patrick wasn't uptight about Richie. He was still happy with Richie going. Patrick was upset because they were running late, and then got even later. And because his family seems to be a pain. Patrick's family being a pain will not go away later, so, I did feel Richie bailed at the first sign of trouble. And because of Richies own insecurities, which he'd been feeling. So, I don't give Richie a free pass on this. YMMV, of course. And evidently does. 

 

I rewatched the wedding episode and the episode after the other night.  Richie was definitely overreacting and in the finale when he came to Patrick's doorstep he admitted as much and said he was working on that.

[sinkwriter]

 

She's known John/Jon for, at max, a month, because that's how long it's been since Patrick and Kevin hooked up, and she'd never met Jon before that. I am assuming she's known Patrick for much longer. So yeah, don't buy her sudden case of caring for this man.

 

I also imagine that she might be feeling hyper-sensitive about the subject of relationships because she just got married. If two guys that she saw as "the perfect couple" don't work out, I imagine that would stir up inner fears about her own relationship. "What would I do if that happened to me? We seem perfect together; would he ever cheat on me?" So she takes that out on Patrick.

 

I don't blame her for having an opinion about it. If she thinks it's wrong that Patrick did this, it's okay for her to speak up about it. But to disown her brother or not try to talk with him about it civilly is wrong. But I suppose that goes to show once again that Patrick's family is pretty messed up when it comes to communication and care for one another. It troubled me that Patrick said his family doesn't do "I love you." That's a telling statement right there.

[Irlandesa]

But to disown her brother or not try to talk with him about it civilly is wrong.

How has she done this?  All I remember from the ep is that Patrick said he doesn't think his sister will ever get used to it.  She wouldn't be the first to dislike an in-law.  That's a far cry from disowning Patrick.

 

She's known John/Jon for, at max, a month, because that's how long it's been since Patrick and Kevin hooked up, and she'd never met Jon before that.

Gus (Patrick's brother-in-law) met Kevin a week before the wedding.  But Gus and Jon had been best friends since Dartmouth.  So we know that she has probably only known Kevin for about a few months (however long it has been since the wedding).  But I don't remember any indication that she just met Jon around her wedding.  She seemed pretty familiar with him.

 

But Patrick wasn't uptight about Richie.

Yes he was. 

 

Patrick [to his mother in Looking for a Plus One]:   You're the real reason he's not here tonight. Richie's not sick. I was a jerk to him today because I was so nervous about introducing him to you because I know he's not the kind of person you want me to be with. 

Groff did a great job reacting when he was on the computer with his mom early in the ep and she said the place saved was for "Richard." 

Edited March 13, 2015 by Irlandesa

[romantic idiot]

John just moved to San Fran, and he came after Kevin arrived. And John is Gus's "best friend" yet not in the wedding party. I don't think there's much scope really of Meghan having met John before the wedding. Also, either way, not sure how she concluded they were the perfect gay couple (because of Kevin's accent?).

 

Re: Patrick being uptight - i know Paddy said that, and believes it, but I think a lot of that is coming from Richie. Patrick was willing to take Richie to the party, even though he knew his mother wouldn't like it. He is not the one who walked away. Richie is the one who bailed. And the entirety of Patrick being "terrible" to Richie was (1) Asking Richie to stop trying to figure out how to tie Patrick's bow tie (a) while Patrick is driving, (b) which is something Patrick doesn't do often © while playing a youtube video in his face (d) at the moment when they are crossing a bridge and (2) reacting negatively to Richie brining pot to his sister's wedding. Oh and the pot reveal was after Richie forced Patrick to stop, when they were already late. 

 

I will grant that Richie was genuinely trying to help Paddy. He wantsd to tie Patrick's bow tie, and to help him relax. But I don't think Patrick's reaction to that was bad enough to make Patrick and overall bad boyfriend to Richie. And i come back to the fact that Richie basically bailed at the first struggle. And I can't help but compare that to Kevin supporting Patrick in revealing their relationship to their co-workers, even though Kevin didn't want it done that way. 

[Momof2boyz]

 

Patrick [to his mother in Looking for a Plus One]:   You're the real reason he's not here tonight. Richie's not sick. I was a jerk to him today because I was so nervous about introducing him to you because I know he's not the kind of person you want me to be with. 

Groff did a great job reacting when he was on the computer with his mom early in the ep and she said the place saved was for "Richard."

And there was a great, subtle moment when he is sitting at the table and he glances at the place setting next to him, in front of the untouched salad, and it says "Richard"

[Irlandesa]

And John is Gus's "best friend" yet not in the wedding party.

He was in the wedding party.  He was getting his picture taken with the bride and groom while Kevin & Patrick were talking and he was wearing the same bowtie/white flower in his lapel that other wedding party members were wearing.

 

 

Patrick was willing to take Richie to the party, even though he knew his mother wouldn't like it.

But I don't think Patrick's reaction to that was bad enough to make Patrick and overall bad boyfriend to Richie. And i come back to the fact that Richie basically bailed at the first struggle.

Richie didn't walk away over one incident, though. It was a cumulative effect.  Patrick invited Richie to the wedding only after the awkward birthday park day. He wanted to prove he was ready to do it.  Richie didn't think he was.  And when Patrick, a man who had been smoking a joint at the beginning of the episode, snapped at Richie for having marijuana, Richie reached the conclusion that his initial misgivings were right.  Richie did overreact to that one moment and admitted it.  But the reason he was keyed up to overreact was because he knew what was underneath Patrick's nervousness.  He'd already lived through it.

 

Like I said, I believe lateness, stained shirt...etc. would have bothered him under any conditions but the reason I believe Patrick and know he was speaking the truth when he told his mom what happened was because Patrick's reaction to Richie's "otherness" was a recurring theme in Season 1. His words were supported by the contextual narrative of the season.

[Bosman]

And Patrick's mom bascially smacked him down during their big talk. I think Patrick was projecting all of his own prejudices onto his family as a convenient way of dealing with them. From what we saw, Patrick's family were hardly monsters, certainly not the way he made them out to be and definitley not in the same context of Doris' alchoholic mother

[blaase]

This show is so dull this season. I preferred last season.

[Garnett7]

 

And Patrick's mom bascially smacked him down during their big talk. I think Patrick was projecting all of his own prejudices onto his family as a convenient way of dealing with them.

 

So much "Yes!!" to this. From what we saw of Patrick's mother, she would've had zero problem with Richie. Heck, they probably would've smoked a joint together and got on well. Patrick projected his issues about Richie's race and social standings onto others. And that was hardly the first time we saw his prejudices showing when it came to Richie.

[sinkwriter]

Patrick's worries have to stem from somewhere. The sense I got in watching those scenes was that his mother used to be a lot more uptight and controlling with her family but has changed in more recent years, and Patrick hasn't seen that side to her and perhaps stopped even looking for another side to her because she behaved one way for so long. He was stunned to see her smoke a joint, which made me think it's a more recent habit for her and therefore unexpected and out of character for her. It's hardly his fault to find that shocking about his mother. I think they made it very clear that that's not the relationship she ever had with him or presented to him over the years. I don't believe for a second that she was a joint-smoking, relaxed and carefree woman when she brought him up. In fact I got the sense that she still presents herself a certain way in society, she's happy with having money and upper class status and doesn't want to give that up, but over the years has grown to dislike some of that life and sneaks the joints as a way to deal with her life. It's kind of sad, actually.

 

She's right in that he stopped asking about her or her life or noticing her, and that's on him, but I do believe his fears about her and his father come from experience. 

[DollEyes]

  Brady is starting to grow on me. Despite his inability to hold his liquor, Brady is kind of cute when he's drunk. Honest, too. Brady's giving his and Richie's accurate opinions of Patrick and his fling with Kevin was classic. Patrick does act like a "13-year-old girl" and he and Kevin together epitomize much of what's wrong with the gay community: shallow, self-absorbed and emphasizing style over substance. As for Patrick's saying those Three Little Words to Kevin, I would ask WTF he was thinking, but this is Patrick, who, when it comes to Kevin, doesn't think at all-at least, not with the big head. When it comes to Patrick & Kevin, the question isn't if Patrick's professing his love-or rather, what he thinks it is-will backfire, but when.

 

 

How did Patrick treat Richie badly last year? he defended Richie to his friends, he was taking Richie to his sister's wedding. Was he concerned about it? Yes-he'd never brought anyone home before. But he was doing it. Then he was hassled and harassed and late and Richie was the one who was tying Patrick's tie while Patrick was driving, knowing that Patrick was feeling uptight. Richie was the one who got hurt and stomped off. And then cut off all communication. I'm sorry, last season, I could see clearly why Patrick and Richie were not a good fit (even though Richie was supposed to be "good" for Patrick) and I didn't see Patrick behaving badly towards Richie. The only one who has a legitimate beef to be angry with Patrick, IMO, is Jon, and even there the blame goes on Kevin who was the one cheating.

 

  I respectfully disagree. For one thing,  Patrick didn't defend Richie to Agustin at Dom's birthday party and he even lied about Richie's future plans to Kevin and Jon. As for the wedding, while I remember that Richie was messed up that day, so was Patrick, to the point of telling his mother that he was sure that she wouldn't like Richie and even blaming her for his own hang ups about him, but to her credit, she was having none of it. I also remember Richie taking the blame for what happened on the wedding day and admitting that he was working on his issues. However, I do agree that Patrick and Richie are wrong for each other, but it's because of Patrick's  issues, not Richie's. Despite Patrick's confessing to Richie about his affair with Kevin a few weeks ago and claiming that he wanted to be friends with Richie, Patrick's implication to Richie that Patrick's not being ready for a serious relationship was Richie's fault was more of Patrick's passive-aggressive bullshit. Patrick's problems are just that-Patrick's problems, none of which are Richie's fault. About Patrick & Kevin, Kevin may have been the one who did the cheating, but Patrick was the one whom he cheated with. Just because Patrick wasn't involved with Jon, that doesn't make him nor his actions against Jon any less wrong.

Edited March 14, 2015 by DollEyes

[Irlandesa]

So much "Yes!!" to this. From what we saw of Patrick's mother, she would've had zero problem with Richie. Heck, they probably would've smoked a joint together and got on well. Patrick projected his issues about Richie's race and social standings onto others. And that was hardly the first time we saw his prejudices showing when it came to Richie.

I don't know that she would have had zero problem with Richie.  Patrick's prejudices didn't pop up out of nowhere and she admitted that someone with Kevin or Jon's background is more what she envisioned for Patrick than how he described Richie. 

 

She bemoaned the state of the church lawn, how it would look in pictures and the fact that one of the guests had made a comment about it.  So appearances matter to her.  And she is married to a man who, rather crassly, praised the fact that his new son-in-law had his own money.  Money probably matters to her. 

But because they matter, she likely would have been unfailingly polite to Richie.  It is not like Patrick risked being kicked out of his own sister's wedding because if his choice of date. 

 

She likely would have had her reservations.  That said, the conversation she had with Patrick on the deck indicated she had also started opening her mind and it's quite probable she would have grown to like Richie after she got past those reservations and readjusted her outlook, especially since Richie is much better than the extraordinarily low bar Patrick set.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Irlandesa

[wayne67]

Personally I like Patrick and Kevin. They have their issues and are working their way through the awkward patch.

 

I doubt they'll last forever as this is a soap opera of sorts that will probably have the characters in different relationships every other season for years (if it survives) before it settles in everyone having a long term relationship.

 

That said... That workplace confession was excruciating for a lot of reasons. Mostly because it felt like a complete overshare. Oh well.

 

That Gloryhole guy was kind of ridiculous. You're going to comment on a couple of gay guys looking too similar when you've made an app for gay guys that hook up through glory holes to socialise afterwards, having porn stars in the background made his moral high horse routine especially bonkers.

 

People who hook up in gloryholes have an easy way to socialise afterwards it's called conversation such as "That was hot, let's do it again elsewhere."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It was awesome to see Jonathan Groff on Glee again this week. I was actually confused at first because he looked so happy (I think he usually looks confused on Looking).

[DollEyes]

 

Kevin may be a serial cheater and maybe he will break Patrick's heart, but Patrick is happy. People insult him and he smiles.

 

 

Regarding Patrick & Kevin, their acting like their going public won't hurt themselves nor their colleagues is delusional, at best. If Brady decides to write that cover story about Patrick & Kevin and he interviews Jon, it could turn into a full-fledged shitstorm that could destroy the company. They may make video games, but they still have stockholder to answer to-who, chances are, wouldn't take kindly to even the smallest hint of scandal and the boss fucking an employee definitely qualifies. Whatever moments Patrick & Kevin may have,  chances are there won't be that many because they're not going to last much longer anyway. From my perspective, the reason why Patrick smiled when Glorified guy dissed him was because he's not smart enough to respond with something like, "You're on my case for 'perpetuating stereotypes,' but your main contribution to the gay community is an app telling gays where to give/get blowjobs to/from strangers? Bitch, please."

 

  However, as annoying as Glorified guy was, he was right about Patrick & Kevin looking much more like twins than lovers, which reaffirmed my belief about why they won't last-because they're too much alike. Patrick & Kevin as a couple seems great in theory, but it was built on a foundation of secrets, betrayal and bald-faced lies. Innocent people, especially Jon and Richie, have been hurt because of them. That Richie is still willing to be friends with Patrick is to Richie's, not Patrick's, credit. Whatever Patrick & Kevin have IMO is neither mature nor a relationship and it never will be because Patrick & Kevin aren't mature. Patrick has never been in a long-term serious relationship before and the first time he tried with Richie it was an epic fail, most of which was Patrick's fault. Kevin's a cheat and a liar and his being with Patrick doesn't change that. Patrick needs someone who will regularly and sometimes harshly call him on his shit and Kevin's telling him he's cute when he's wrong doesn't count. Dom & Doris have each other, Agustin has Eddie and Richie has called himself out more than once and Brady did the same in this episode. Patrick may not have been Kevin's man when they met, but he's not an innocent bystander, either. Just because Kevin did the cheating that shouldn't mean that Patrick gets a pass. I'm tired of sidepieces using the "I didn't take vows" excuse to justify their actions. Patrick is not as great as he thinks he is and maybe if more people whom he respects called him on it, he might finally start to grow up, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

  Regarding Dom & Doris, Doris' relationship with Malik is changing her friendship with Dom for the better and for the worse. Malik is showing Doris that while Dom is the man she trusts most, she can trust Malik too; otoh, Doris' going out of town with Malik meant leaving Dom alone at a crucial time re his new business, which could hurt his friendship with if it keeps up. If Doris is in love with Malik, then she, Malik and Dom will have to find a way to make it work so that Doris can strengthen things with Malik without losing her friendship with Dom.  

 

  Re Agustin, while he did have a setback re his HIV panic after sleeping with Eddie, to Agustin's credit, he realized it, admitted it to Eddie and promised to deal with it. That Agustin didn't even think of trying to blame Eddie for his problems unlike Patrick did to Richie proves that in some ways Agustin's more mature than Patrick-which IMO, isn't that hard.

Edited March 14, 2015 by DollEyes

[Irlandesa]

If Brady decides to write that cover story about Patrick & Kevin and he interviews Jon, it could turn into a full-fledged shitstorm that could destroy the company.

I think Kevin and Patrick, mostly Patrick, have their heads in the sand about why people in their lives don't think their relationship is as miraculous as they seem to, but I do not think it has the power to destroy the company.  Writing about the fact that they're dating might be considered a human interest part of the app's story.  The fact that they started as an affair?  Comes off as an expose off topic from what Brady was covering there.  The public isn't going to care about Patrick or Kevin and therefore the stockholders, if they even exist, won't care about Patrick or Kevin.

 

The board?  If they care, they will fire one or both of them. 

 

What I'm more surprised about was the fact that when they came up with the game, Kevin told Patrick to keep it on the down low because Dangerous Games could assert ownership over it.  I don't know what their contracts look like but they still work for Dangerous Games.  Even if they didn't develop it at work, often times there are clauses that whatever you develop while in the employ of a tech company like that, wherever you worked on it, is property of that company.

 

If Doris is in love with Malik, then she, Malik and Dom will have to find a way to make it work so that Doris can strengthen things with Malik without losing her friendship with Dom. 

I don't think Malik presents a danger to the Doris and Dom relationship.  The fact that Dom and Doris aren't there for each other 100% of the time is what is going to present a danger to their relationship.  The fact that they have been in the past has been both healthy and unhealthy.    I don't think Doris abandoned Dom.  She already had plans that she shouldn't have to change because Dom needed her help with his restaurant.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[Primetimer]

Kudos to Looking for letting this guy slowly and authentically evolve.

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