S01.E07: Episode 7

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

North and Jacob have gone missing, and after the events of the previous night, Margaret is desperate to find them. But when her friends discover her betrayal of Emily, Margaret will have to search alone. Lydia can finally take her revenge on Emily, who finds herself in terrible danger. Nancy will have to race against time to find her – though help comes from the most unexpected quarter. Charlotte and Marney are planning a future in America, but when a discovery is made, all three Wells women fear they will come under suspicion. With Margaret's daughters in peril, can she find a way to save them all?

[dleighg]

I read that synopsis and thought "Who the hell is North?" For those wondering, it is Jacob's father, otherwise known as William. Have we ever *heard* their last name????

[dmc]

7 hours ago, dleighg said:

I read that synopsis and thought "Who the hell is North?" For those wondering, it is Jacob's father, otherwise known as William. Have we ever *heard* their last name????

I need to learn these characters names because I was like ???? for the whole paragraph

[OtterMommy]

Also keep in mind that there is another episode to air before this one, so it is shouldn't be surprising that this synopsis may not make sense....yet.

[dmc]

Was pretty shocked at Dido blackmailing Margaret for the money...I mean I get that they are her children but still...

Not shocked that Haxby fingered Charlotte and her guy-this relationship is a freight train...hard to believe because it moved so quickly...

[HeySandyStrange]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

Was pretty shocked at Dido blackmailing Margaret for the money...I mean I get that they are her children but still..

Considering Margaret is putting everyone in her house in danger to protect Lucy, I don't blame Harriet for getting something out of her very dangerous silence and lies. 

[dmc]

22 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Considering Margaret is putting everyone in her house in danger to protect Lucy, I don't blame Harriet for getting something out of her very dangerous silence and lies. 

Margaret is looking out for her daughter.  Dido is looking out for her kids too but she just blackmailed the only person willing to help her to do it.  She isn't entitled to that money.  If she was concerned, she could just leave.

[HeySandyStrange]

Well, for all Harriet knows, Margaret would throw any of them under a bus for Lucy. And honestly, as Nancy pointed out Margaret is acting more and more like Quigley, so it isn't like there's no basis to think she'd go there. She did murder a man who could've been saved to spare her daughter. Harriet isn't a fool, she survived being enslaved and  it's not like she hasn't been working hard for the house.

Is it the most honorable action? Nope. But honor isn't really a commodity any of them can afford. They are all just trying to survive.

[legxleg]

I can't really fault Harriet for blackmailing Margaret Wells. Yes, it was a rough thing to do to Margaret, but her children are slipping through her fingers. Harriet's children have her loyalty over Margaret, just as Margaret's children have her loyalty over the others in the house (although, as Charlotte pointed out, it's not like Margaret has exactly done well by them either). I think Margaret would do the same thing in Harriet's shoes. That said, I think that the awful Lennox son made it pretty clear when North tried to buy the children that he wanted to enslave and hurt Harriet's children as revenge against her more than he wanted money. I don't think there's any amount of money Harriet could offer to induce him to sell. What she needs to do IMO is to get someone else to secretly buy them for her - while saying that s/he is going to be horrible and cruel to them, and Harriet begs him not to sell her children to this awful person. Then he'd probably do it. Of course, I don't think there's anyone Harriet trusts that much that the Lennox son wouldn't know is acting on her behalf.

[dmc]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Well, for all Harriet knows, Margaret would throw any of them under a bus for Lucy. And honestly, as Nancy pointed out Margaret is acting more and more like Quigley, so it isn't like there's no basis to think she'd go there. She did murder a man who could've been saved to spare her daughter. Harriet isn't a fool, she survived being enslaved and  it's not like she hasn't been working hard for the house.

Is it the most honorable action? Nope. But honor isn't really a commodity any of them can afford. They are all just trying to survive.

True.  But now she has burned her bridge with Margaret...and still doesn't have all the money she needs.  As we saw with Emily Lacey, not having support or people to help you is even more dangerous

[Riplet68]

Legxleg:  maybe Harriet could talk lord creepy into doing your plan? (I can't remeber his name, the goat guy she came out to)

the magistrate is actually doing a good job of trying to turn charlottes and Irish dude against each other. 

Im worried about will and Jacob. I figure he's just hiding out somewhere, but still...

lucy really is an idiot

[dmc]

Is Haxby lying he didn't see charlotte/marney with blood on their clothing right?  I find it hard to believe he's devastated over sir George's death.  Now he has what he wants him and lady Caroline 

 

Someone else will be dead in the finale. I wonder who...someone minor 

[Elivesta29]

I don't really know how Harriet can be faulted for what she did. I don't even have children. but I imagine I'd do the same thing as she did if I had to. Maybe she burnt bridges with Margaret, but I'm not sure that would be enough of a reason to allow her children to be shipped across the Atlantic. Like others have said as well. it's not like Margaret hasn't put them all into a very precarious position.

Of course, it's a very real possibility that Regency Joffrey(I know it's not the Regency period but Georgian Joffrey didn't sound very good) won't give her the children for any amount of money.  Everyone's in a mess, and I'm not sure how it's all going to play out. It was interesting Quigly wanted Charlotte off the hook - I wonder what it is she actually wants from Margaret at this point? 

[dleighg]

7 minutes ago, dmc said:

Is Haxby lying he didn't see charlotte/marney with blood on their clothing right?

she still only has that one dress she was wearing, right? No blood on it, right? I guess the powers that be can overlook such stuff.

8 minutes ago, Elivesta29 said:

Everyone's in a mess

aint' that the truth!

[dmc]

13 minutes ago, dleighg said:

she still only has that one dress she was wearing, right? No blood on it, right? I guess the powers that be can overlook such stuff.

aint' that the truth!

Thanks 

[tennisgurl]

This really is a terribly kept secret, it seems like everyone on the block knows that someone in Margaret's house killed Foppish McWighair. Way to go, Lucy. I'm not trying to blame her for trying to stop a person from forcing himself on her, but what she did REALLY fucked up basically everything for everyone in one fell swoop. 

Its messed up that Harriot is blackmailing Margaret, considering she did try to help her, but I cant say I really blame her. Her children are about to be taken to another continent as the property of their evil half brother to be slaves for their whole lives, and she would never see them again. Its not very nice, but its understandable.

I felt kind of bad for Charles, weirdly enough. He tries to save Emily, and he just gets yelled at by the person he's trying to rescue, then gets beat up by a dominatrix. Is he going to start spying on his mom now that he knows for sure how awful she is? He is definitely a loser mammas boy, but I don't at all think he's as nasty as his mom.

I knew that Charlotte and her boyfriend were going to get fingered for the murder. I was just as offended as Charlotte when Margaret started telling her she was stupid for going to Foopishes house to get her stuff. She had no idea he was going to get murdered, she just wanted to get her clothes! She didn't stab a rich guy like Lucy did! I don't think its true exactly, but I can see how Charlotte would think that her mom favors Lucy over her.  

[OtterMommy]

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This really is a terribly kept secret, it seems like everyone on the block knows that someone in Margaret's house killed Foppish McWighair. 

This is true, but I think the story point here is not that everyone knows, but Margaret has now lost any good will to protect herself.  Had she not rejected Emily and then turned her over to Lydia, she would have had everyone on her side and working to keep "the official line" going.  If that had been the case, not only would "one of their own" be in trouble, but everyone in that world would be out to protect themselves from scrutiny by the law.

But, on the other hand, Lydia ha her own issues, even if she doesn't know it yet.  She's about to let down some very powerful men and the woman who can testify that Lydia kidnapped her is now on the loose....and she no longer has her son on her side.  

I do have to say that they have cooked up quite a kettle of fish for all the characters going into the season finale.

[spaceghostess]

9 hours ago, legxleg said:

I can't really fault Harriet for blackmailing Margaret Wells. Yes, it was a rough thing to do to Margaret, but her children are slipping through her fingers. Harriet's children have her loyalty over Margaret, just as Margaret's children have her loyalty over the others in the house (although, as Charlotte pointed out, it's not like Margaret has exactly done well by them either). I think Margaret would do the same thing in Harriet's shoes. That said, I think that the awful Lennox son made it pretty clear when North tried to buy the children that he wanted to enslave and hurt Harriet's children as revenge against her more than he wanted money. I don't think there's any amount of money Harriet could offer to induce him to sell. What she needs to do IMO is to get someone else to secretly buy them for her - while saying that s/he is going to be horrible and cruel to them, and Harriet begs him not to sell her children to this awful person. Then he'd probably do it. Of course, I don't think there's anyone Harriet trusts that much that the Lennox son wouldn't know is acting on her behalf.

Yes, yes, and yes. The only way she's getting her kids back is over that prick's dead body--or if, as you described, she finds someone to convince him that he's having his cake and eating it, too. As much as I'd love to see Harriet get some sweet revenge on the hideous toad, I'd much rather see her get her children back and start a new life elsewhere. Best-case scenario: she carries out a scheme similar to yours and Lennox, counting his money as he jaywalks, is mowed down by a carriage which then backs up and runs over him again.

Lucy: if you'd really wanted to go to the magistrate and turn yourself in, you'd have gone to the magistrate and turned yourself in--not told your mother you were going to the magistrate so that she could convince you not to turn yourself in.

[kieyra]

Interesting show. Everyone is a shapeshifter (except for Nancy, who is always what she seems), and I never have much idea what's going to happen from one scene to the next.

On the one hand, I wouldn't have minded a lighter take on the subject matter, especially with such a fun cast, but in retrospect I'm glad they're not pulling any punches. Everyone is fucked in one way or another. 

I don't entirely know if we're supposed to be cheering for any of the Wells women anymore. 

[spaceghostess]

2 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I don't entirely know if we're supposed to be cheering for any of the Wells women anymore. 

I'm finding myself ever more inclined to cheer for Emily Lacey and her perpetual state of Being Over It.

[Hazel55]

Another exciting and action packed episode.

Though she’s undoubtedly the show's central character, Margaret Wells comes across as more and more unattractive to me with each episode. I understand her horrible early life, her desperation, and her limited number of choices. But for the past several episodes (and even, hell, since the beginning) so many of her decisions seem motivated by pure, rapacious greed and the desire to advance/ secure her position rather than genuine, selfless care for her daughters. Even her sheltering of Lucy, whom some viewers (maybe not here, but I’ve read it elsewhere) view as spoiled, seems to be motivated by selfish factors—a desire to get all she can out of the girl, and a sense of extreme (and utterly justified) guilt over what she did to Charlotte. Of course, she is just as concerned about her daughters, and wants them to share in her good fortune. But in “making them successful” she gives absolutely no weight to what they want or need as human beings. She sells them off at appallingly early ages to be high class courtesans because that’s how they’ll “get ahead in life,” regardless of what they want.

And sure, given her status and the norms of the time she lives in, options for her girls are surely very limited. But Charlotte, though able to excel at it, seems utterly ill suited (in terms of achieving real happiness) to the courtesan profession; Lucy is even more so.

Anyway, to see Nancy’s well-earned dressing down of Margaret was a pleasure. Nancy is a fabulous and interesting character, and I hope she continues to get more lines and more screentime. (I’d also like to learn more about her.) Is it odd, or utterly predictable, that by far the most moral character on this show is not the magistrate, nobles, or lady preacher, but the dominatrix who specializes in whippings?

Though she was tough and ruthless tonight, I continue to sympathize wholly with Harriet. Sure, her actions with Charlotte were rough, but no rougher than those Charlotte would have taken for her children. Plus, desperate times… And Lucy’s argument (“My mother took you into her home!”) would have been a whole lot stronger if Margaret would have done anything for Harriett due to selfless benevolence. As it stands, though Margaret did show some kindness, she is also economically exploiting/ benefiting off of Harriet, just as she is with all of the other women in her house.

Though Charlotte’s working class love interest has been (to my mind) by far the least interesting character on the show thus far, I was fond of him tonight. He (and their relationship) seems in so many ways clichéd, yet the combination of the actor (who is genuinely talented) and the writing tonight made me genuinely like and sympathize with him for the first time. Perhaps this was due to the fact that he seemed to be the only one (besides possibly Charlotte) acting with some selflessness, nobility, and dignity amongst a bunch of amoral, grasping, dishonest characters.

And Fanny. Fanny! Who started out seeming to be merely a combination of “brothel extra #2,” undeveloped side character, and comic relief, now becoming one of the most compelling characters on the show. Her problem, so mundane and common yet so compelling, is making for one of the most surprisingly interesting minor storyline. The actress, whom I wasn’t sure of at first, is also killing it. On a side note—I was kinda disappointed to learn that her main customer/ possible babydaddy was already married. First, because he was one of the few brothel customers I’d liked in the past; and secondly, I had hoped Fanny might achieve something resembling a happy ending in running off with him.

Finally, the modern music is starting to kinda jive with the show with me…. Or perhaps I’m just learning to tune it out at this point. I suspect it’s the latter.

[Hazel55]

2 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

I'm finding myself ever more inclined to cheer for Emily Lacey and her perpetual state of Being Over It.

I've kind of been cheering for Emily since the beginning. Sure, she was rude to the other girls. But she was also right-- Margaret Wells was-- and is-- exploiting the hell out of them. Nor can I blame Emily for wanting to scurry her way up the ladder-- hell, our "heroine" Margaret Wells is doing the exact same thing; the only difference is Emily Lacy has the integrity to use her own body in her upward climb, rather than those of her daughters and other women (as Margaret does.) And what I've heard some viewers (commenting on hulu) refer to as Emily Lacy's "Uppitiness" seems merely like basic common sense to me. So, Emily Lacy declares that it is not okay for her madam to force her to serve customers who brutally beat and abuse her? Yeah... sounds legit to me. 

Anyway, even if Emily Lacey had been an evil villain on the level of Lydia Quigley (kidnapping young girls for murder, and whatnot), it would be difficult to watch what she was put through and not sympathize with her. Somehow, the creepiest part for me was not even when Emily was being forcibly taken, beaten, or threatened, but when Lydia came up to wash Emily right before the attack was going to happen-- watching Emily tremble helplessly with fear, horrified by the knowledge of what was coming but utterly helpless, was difficult to watch. 

In short-- I'd agree 100 percent that its easier to root for Emily Lacey than it is for Margaret Wells at this point. I still find Charlotte highly sympathetic (and fascinating), and despite her mistakes, I'd give Lucy some leeway for being a 15 year old kid whose been sold, sexually abused and almost raped at this point. Margaret does not have these excuses. 

[Hazel55]

2 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

The only way she's getting her kids back is over that prick's dead body--

Which brings us to another question: is Lucy really "an idiot" (as some have argued), or did she just stab the wrong guy? She should have just stabbed Harriet's stepson, and I suspect we'd all be okay with it. Seriously, whatever the consequences, I'd love to see somebody (preferably a courtesan) off racist Georgian Justin Bieber at this point. 

[HeySandyStrange]

13 hours ago, kieyra said:

 

I don't entirely know if we're supposed to be cheering for any of the Wells women anymore. 

I'm cheering for William and his son. Poor guy is one of the only decent people on the show and he has the most common sense. I'm glad he is hiding out from this shit storm.

I'm cheering for Nancy to. Her badass cross dressing, fabulous cheekbones, and being one of the few moral people in this show. Maybe William and her need to run off together and start their own house.

[OtterMommy]

I'm also cheering for Harriet.  I don't care if she basically blackmailed Margaret--I would have done the same thing in her position.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I'm cheering for William and his son. Poor guy is one of the only decent people on the show and he has the most common sense. I'm glad he is hiding out from this shit storm.

I strongly suspect he's actually off freeing Harriet's kids. Unspoiled (if spoilers for this show even exist); his promise to her just seemed way too solemn. 

... which leads to--does he run off with Harriet, who now has all of Margaret's earthly fortune, or does he go back to Margaret?

(My only problem with Harriet's blackmail is that it's been obvious from the start that Regency Joffrey wasn't going to part with the kids for any amount of money. Because Joffrey. So she needed to be engaging in 'corkscrew thinking' instead. So the theme of her asking for (and then blackmailing for) more money became repetitive fast.)

I knew early on that this show was going to burn everything down by the end of the season, and I have no idea who's going to be left standing, if anyone.

I checked to see if it had been renewed (no info), but honestly I'm not sure how they'd do a second season. They've stripped away all pretense of the harlotting business being anything but destructive and corrupt (and deadly), so it's not like there's much structure for anyone to return to. What would a plausible win for Margaret Wells (or Emily Lacey) even look like? 

Quote

I'm cheering for Nancy to. Her badass cross dressing, fabulous cheekbones, and being one of the few moral people in this show. Maybe William and her need to run off together and start their own house.

I finally looked up the actress (yes, those cheekbones), and she hasn't been in much I've seen before. It looks like she's done a lot of stage and Shakespeare, and ... The Force Awakens?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Fleetwood

Edited May 11, 2017 by kieyra

[dleighg]

17 minutes ago, kieyra said:

The Force Awakens?

wow she looked pretty scary in the images I pulled up on Google.

[Arynm]

7 hours ago, kieyra said:

I strongly suspect he's actually off freeing Harriet's kids. Unspoiled (if spoilers for this show even exist); his promise to her just seemed way too solemn. 

... which leads to--does he run off with Harriet, who now has all of Margaret's earthly fortune, or does he go back to Margaret?

(My only problem with Harriet's blackmail is that it's been obvious from the start that Regency Joffrey wasn't going to part with the kids for any amount of money. Because Joffrey. So she needed to be engaging in 'corkscrew thinking' instead. So the theme of her asking for (and then blackmailing for) more money became repetitive fast.)

I knew early on that this show was going to burn everything down by the end of the season, and I have no idea who's going to be left standing, if anyone.

I checked to see if it had been renewed (no info), but honestly I'm not sure how they'd do a second season. They've stripped away all pretense of the harlotting business being anything but destructive and corrupt (and deadly), so it's not like there's much structure for anyone to return to. What would a plausible win for Margaret Wells (or Emily Lacey) even look like? 

I finally looked up the actress (yes, those cheekbones), and she hasn't been in much I've seen before. It looks like she's done a lot of stage and Shakespeare, and ... The Force Awakens?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Fleetwood

I remember her from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 1. She was the wife that was believed to be muggle and had to go before the court to prove it. Ron turned into her husband and he got her out of trouble.

[JennyExiled]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:03 AM, Hazel55 said:

Margaret does not have these excuses.

Margaret has all the same excuses, if not more. Sold by her mother at 10 to Lydia Quigley? We all know how Lydia treats her girls. We may not know all of Margaret's back story, but I'm sure there was plenty of abuse and rape along the way. Frankly, I'm surprised Margaret is capable of having any maternal feelings or emotions at all! I honestly think Margaret is doing the best she can. Yes, her best is falling woefully short for everyone in her life, but given her upbringing, I find it hard to sit in judgement of her for her bad choices. I think they would all be happier if they hadn't moved to Greek street, but there would be no juicy story for us. :) 

All the Wells women have made huge mistakes at this point, but it's very easy to understand why they've done what they've done. Charlotte should have stayed far away from her mother's house, but she needed to check on her sister. Lucy should never have stabbed Sir George, but she was being raped. She also shouldn't have turned in Marney, but she thought she was helping her sister. Margaret shouldn't have killed Sir George or given up Emily's location, but she was terrified for her own daughter. 

Haxby remains a bit of a mystery. He may not think Charlotte killed Sir George, but I do think he absolutely blames her for what happened. Given the time period, I'm not sure all of Lady Caroline's problems are over. Wouldn't George's money (and Caroline's too) go to George's closest male heir? We know they didn't have children. 

[dmc]

FYI if you want to be spoiled for episode 8-the entire episode happenings are on Wikipedia under the episode description

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

FYI if you want to be spoiled for episode 8-the entire episode happenings are on Wikipedia under the episode description

Taking my response to the episode 8 thread. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/10/2017 at 5:32 AM, dmc said:

Not shocked that Haxby fingered Charlotte and her guy

Ha, this gave me some interesting visuals!

On 5/10/2017 at 5:02 PM, tennisgurl said:

Foppish McWighair

 

On 5/10/2017 at 9:26 PM, Hazel55 said:

racist Georgian Justin Bieber

A+ to both of you for these glorious names.

[nodorothyparker]

There was such a theme of what mothers will do for their children running through this episode.  I'm not bothered at all by Harriet giving Margaret an ultimatum.  Margaret was scurrying around all over the place trying to do damage control and clean up the mess that she was largely responsible for that she was completely blowing off Harriet's reality that she was up against a ticking clock:  Georgian Joffrey had already told her when he was sailing.  The ship was leaving later that same day and Harriet has to be fully aware that if she doesn't get her kids back Right Now her chances go down substantially once they're back as slaves in Virginia.   I'm with everybody else in thinking that since the little prick has already made it clear that wants to hurt Harriet more than he's interested in cash payment for the kiddos that there's probably going to have to be more to it than that than her just showing up at the docks with Margaret's bag of coin but at least now she's got a starting point.  And from the way Margaret was acting, I think it's foolish not to think that she wouldn't turn on any of these women in a heartbeat if she thinks it's going to save her own children.

I've enjoyed Nancy throughout the series for her generally bemused detachment from the Margaret-Quigley war but she was killing it in this episode with her incredibly pointed dressing down of Margaret for how thoroughly she's ensnared everybody in covering up her mess and for how casually she was willing to throw Emily to the wolves after vowing she would never be like Quigley.  Her rescue of Emily and beating of Charles was also just everything.  "Rancid womb fruit" indeed, although his taking the initiative to see what his mother was up to at is least somewhat redeeming for a character I didn't think I'd ever care much for in the early episodes.  Charles should probably be grateful he lives before modern street lamps attempting that bit of stealth in his bright pastel coat though.  

Can Haxby be any more florid in his describing the dastardly villains while waxing poetically over his dead fop of a master?  And yeah, he was making stuff up wholesale.  I guess it hasn't occurred to anyone to notice that Charlotte is still wearing the same elaborate formal gown she wore to that horrid dinner party two days ago and it doesn't have a spot of blood on it.  Charlotte was really selling her years of resentment over the life Margaret set her up in, both in her confrontation with Margaret and later with the magistrate when he was trying to frighten the infamous Charlotte Wells.  At this point I'm guessing Marney is wishing he'd just left well enough alone and given Charlotte a wide berth back when she was still brushing him off.

[rozen]

On 5/12/2017 at 8:48 AM, JennyExiled said:

Margaret has all the same excuses, if not more. Sold by her mother at 10 to Lydia Quigley? We all know how Lydia treats her girls. We may not know all of Margaret's back story, but I'm sure there was plenty of abuse and rape along the way. Frankly, I'm surprised Margaret is capable of having any maternal feelings or emotions at all! I honestly think Margaret is doing the best she can. Yes, her best is falling woefully short for everyone in her life, but given her upbringing, I find it hard to sit in judgement of her for her bad choices. I think they would all be happier if they hadn't moved to Greek street, but there would be no juicy story for us. :) 

Agreed. Imo, Margaret raised her kids the best way she knew how, and her childhood would basically guarantee that 'love of your life, two kids, and a dirty cottage' would seem about as real to a unicorn to her. I will blame her for giving her kids no game plan. Charlotte was too stupid to play Sir George into letting her have her own playthings like the creepy pedophile couple. Lucy got no social graces at all.

Harriet was putting an awful lot of weight on her testimony. If Margaret weren't so frazzled, she'd have laughed in her face and told her to go ahead. I dunno where she's planning on going after she spends every penny buying her kids back. Back to Margaret's? Lol, good luck. She's got no money, no skills, and no support system. And now that Margaret is too broke to bribe anyone, if everything does go sideways, she'll get rounded up with everyone else in the house and hanged.

Feel like the guy at the end was debating selling our Wells, or selling out Preacher Lady's daughter, and decided to go with Wells.

Nancy is the literal best. Margaret needed that dressing down. But Nancy did want Margaret to give Quigley a run for her money, nasty shit is necessary to displace that old buzzard. Even if Lucy hadn't Lizzy Borden'd the night before.

Why do I feel like Virginian Beiber will end up staying in England, buy Sir George's old house and engage Haxby as his manservant, making a perfect nexus of The Literal Worst?

[dmc]

On 5/13/2017 at 5:08 PM, nodorothyparker said:

There was such a theme of what mothers will do for their children running through this episode.  I'm not bothered at all by Harriet giving Margaret an ultimatum.  Margaret was scurrying around all over the place trying to do damage control and clean up the mess that she was largely responsible for that she was completely blowing off Harriet's reality that she was up against a ticking clock:  Georgian Joffrey had already told her when he was sailing.  The ship was leaving later that same day and Harriet has to be fully aware that if she doesn't get her kids back Right Now her chances go down substantially once they're back as slaves in Virginia.   I'm with everybody else in thinking that since the little prick has already made it clear that wants to hurt Harriet more than he's interested in cash payment for the kiddos that there's probably going to have to be more to it than that than her just showing up at the docks with Margaret's bag of coin but at least now she's got a starting point.  And from the way Margaret was acting, I think it's foolish not to think that she wouldn't turn on any of these women in a heartbeat if she thinks it's going to save her own children.

I've enjoyed Nancy throughout the series for her generally bemused detachment from the Margaret-Quigley war but she was killing it in this episode with her incredibly pointed dressing down of Margaret for how thoroughly she's ensnared everybody in covering up her mess and for how casually she was willing to throw Emily to the wolves after vowing she would never be like Quigley.  Her rescue of Emily and beating of Charles was also just everything.  "Rancid womb fruit" indeed, although his taking the initiative to see what his mother was up to at is least somewhat redeeming for a character I didn't think I'd ever care much for in the early episodes.  Charles should probably be grateful he lives before modern street lamps attempting that bit of stealth in his bright pastel coat though.  

Can Haxby be any more florid in his describing the dastardly villains while waxing poetically over his dead fop of a master?  And yeah, he was making stuff up wholesale.  I guess it hasn't occurred to anyone to notice that Charlotte is still wearing the same elaborate formal gown she wore to that horrid dinner party two days ago and it doesn't have a spot of blood on it.  Charlotte was really selling her years of resentment over the life Margaret set her up in, both in her confrontation with Margaret and later with the magistrate when he was trying to frighten the infamous Charlotte Wells.  At this point I'm guessing Marney is wishing he'd just left well enough alone and given Charlotte a wide berth back when she was still brushing him off.

Omg it is the same dress

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, dmc said:

Omg it is the same dress

Yes, she told the new boyfriend that the only thing she took with her when she left George's house was the dress she was wearing so unless she borrows a dress from Lucy (or she has some old clothes in the attic at her mom's place), that blue dress is the only one she has right now.

[dmc]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, she told the new boyfriend that the only thing she took with her when she left George's house was the dress she was wearing so unless she borrows a dress from Lucy (or she has some old clothes in the attic at her mom's place), that blue dress is the only one she has right now.

I totally missed that detail.  Clearly I need to watch more closely.  I did re-watch the episode again and I did catch one other thing...during the Margaret/Haxby scene.  I think while Haxby is lying about the dress, he 100% believes Charlotte still did it. 

[snowwhyte]

Yes, Haxby despises Charlotte and probably does think she did it or got her boyfriend to do it. He thinks that by lying he is seeing justice done. Not that he isn't gleeful at the situation. Sir George dead, Charlotte imprisoned, the only other thing he needs now is for Sir George's wife to return to town and turn to him for comfort. 

[dmc]

11 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

Yes, Haxby despises Charlotte and probably does think she did it or got her boyfriend to do it. He thinks that by lying he is seeing justice done. Not that he isn't gleeful at the situation. Sir George dead, Charlotte imprisoned, the only other thing he needs now is for Sir George's wife to return to town and turn to him for comfort. 

Lol yep

[rollacoaster]

OK, granted, I've only had the one child, and I assume it's different for everyone.....but, seriously, when my water broke, it was not at all like it was for Fanny.  I hate when TV and movies make it look like a water balloon exploding when dropped from a great height. 

[wonderchica05]

Are we supposed to believe poor Fanny is screaming her head off upstairs and Margaret doesn't notice?

I laughed out loud when Betsy assured the scared official that Nancy wasn't going to whip him for free!

[vesperholly]

Lord Fallon saying that Charlotte has transgressed nature's most sacred law by killing above her station was a great one-off line.

[aradia22]

Bwahaha. The beginning of the episode was so Law & Order. Normal, idyllic day... oops, a dead body.

Jesus, the other kidnapped girls were locked in rooms. Mrs. Quigley put Emily Lacey in a place like a scene from Taken.

Thank God for Kitty. The other girls are faithless. 

Also, why wouldn't Haxby be under suspicion? There were certainly a lot of bad feelings between them. And with George gone, Haxby has his job back.

Well, this episode is full of nonsensical drama with the fallout from George's death. Everyone is a little wrong. Everyone is a little right. 

Armitage has too much of a gym body for historical accuracy. 

I get why Margaret doesn't have the time to listen to Harriet and Fanny. But also this seems a little contrived. 

Bobby isn't particularly effective but at least he has enough of a conscience to try to report Emily's kidnapping.

They could throw Marney in the river too and I wouldn't care. I have no need for self-righteous idiots in my scheming, murderous soap operas. I appreciate that he fought but lost pretty quickly because, you know, he was outnumbered and he's not Batman.

Dafuq? Why does this show insist on being so confusing? So Ratface has a gay lover dying of... something? And, I don't know. This is too much plot for one episode. I feel like this was only in here to encourage Amelia to not spurn Violet.

Guys, Conliffe is totally the next to die, right? He's been testing Lydia and giving her nothing in return. 

If they wanted me to care about Daniel, they should have said his name before episode 7. Also, I bet they'd stand up to Conliffe better if they had established some foundation of trust and a relationship. Sorry, they're still basically strangers. You can't fool me, show, just because they talked about fish. *eye roll*

I get that Harriet is desperate but she's also foolish. She should see that Benjamin isn't really interested in the money. He wants revenge. He wants to punish her and the children.

In the real world, yes, of course Lucy shouldn't be forced into being a whore. In the world of the show, yeah, it's all kind of her fault. She should have spoken up sooner. She's caused a lot of problems. 

[aradia22]

Quote

This really is a terribly kept secret, it seems like everyone on the block knows that someone in Margaret's house killed Foppish McWighair. Way to go, Lucy. I'm not trying to blame her for trying to stop a person from forcing himself on her, but what she did REALLY fucked up basically everything for everyone in one fell swoop. 

This entire paragraph is hilarious but I particularly like the nickname. 

Quote

I was just as offended as Charlotte when Margaret started telling her she was stupid for going to Foopishes house to get her stuff. She had no idea he was going to get murdered, she just wanted to get her clothes! 

To be fair, I think she did know. At this point, she'd seen that George had been stabbed and I think she knew Margaret was going to let him die. I don't remember if she'd strangled him yet but before Charlotte left the house and met up with Daniel, she definitely knew George would be dead and she'd be under suspicion. It's part of why she was definitely ready to run away with him to America. Again, I think it's stupid they didn't go for it. I think they could have handled Haxby and one footman and taken some money and jewels. But I guess the show didn't want to expose the fact that they hadn't hired enough extras to be servants in the house.

Quote

Lucy: if you'd really wanted to go to the magistrate and turn yourself in, you'd have gone to the magistrate and turned yourself in--not told your mother you were going to the magistrate so that she could convince you not to turn yourself in.

FACTS

Reading this thread is interesting. I suppose I'm in the minority of still rooting for Margaret. I like characters who are pragmatic and ruthless more than I like ones who are morally good. Morality is a luxury in a world like this. I have no patience for characters who can talk a big game but don't make solid plans and recklessly act like idiots with no thought for the consequences like Daniel and Charlotte. 

[Roseanna]

On 5/15/2017 at 6:18 PM, snowwhyte said:

Yes, Haxby despises Charlotte

Haxby has evidently coveted Charlotte for years and of course a man's lust is a woman's fault. After he finally had her, of course she is bad, not him.

[Roseanna]

On 5/11/2017 at 3:32 AM, OtterMommy said:

This is true, but I think the story point here is not that everyone knows, but Margaret has now lost any good will to protect herself.  Had she not rejected Emily and then turned her over to Lydia, she would have had everyone on her side and working to keep "the official line" going.  If that had been the case, not only would "one of their own" be in trouble, but everyone in that world would be out to protect themselves from scrutiny by the law.

 Margaret didn't make her choices in the vacuum but in certain circumstances.

To us it may seem cruel that she turned Emily down when she needed help, but if she had given it, she would have given other her sex workers an example that they would abandon her without any consequences.

It was horrible that she turned Emily to Lydia, but she made it to save her daughter.   

[Roseanna]

On 5/11/2017 at 6:45 AM, Hazel55 said:

Though she’s undoubtedly the show's central character, Margaret Wells comes across as more and more unattractive to me with each episode. I understand her horrible early life, her desperation, and her limited number of choices. But for the past several episodes (and even, hell, since the beginning) so many of her decisions seem motivated by pure, rapacious greed and the desire to advance/ secure her position rather than genuine, selfless care for her daughters. Even her sheltering of Lucy, whom some viewers (maybe not here, but I’ve read it elsewhere) view as spoiled, seems to be motivated by selfish factors—a desire to get all she can out of the girl, and a sense of extreme (and utterly justified) guilt over what she did to Charlotte. Of course, she is just as concerned about her daughters, and wants them to share in her good fortune. But in “making them successful” she gives absolutely no weight to what they want or need as human beings. She sells them off at appallingly early ages to be high class courtesans because that’s how they’ll “get ahead in life,” regardless of what they want.

How does Margaret differ from well-to-parents at the time? Did they ask what their sons wanted when they presumed that the eldest son would inherit the estate and the youngest sons would go to the navy or to the church and arranged materially good matches to their daughters?

Margaret prefers money as the only means to secure a woman's life because she knows how easily a woman is in the street.

[Roseanna]

On 5/28/2017 at 7:42 AM, vesperholly said:

Lord Fallon saying that Charlotte has transgressed nature's most sacred law by killing above her station was a great one-off line.

But it was sadly true irl.

The whole society based on the principle that was said instituted by God, that a child must obey parents, wife must obey her husband., a servant must obey his/her master/mistress, non-aristocrats must obey aristocrats, and all people must obey their king.

Killing a person above one's station was the ultimate sin, because it shocked the foundations of sociaty.