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S09.E05: The Politics of Friendship

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Sheenieb
Sheenieb

I haven't even watched the entire episode yet because I was flipping back and forth between this and Empire. I also had to brace myself. I feel your devastation, Carol. I'm sure her emotions matched m

annewithaneee
annewithaneee

Well, I'm glad the specter of November 8 is no longer hanging over this season and we're done with it. It was maddening, though. I don't pay attention to social media in the off-season -- do we know h

tribeca
tribeca

I really wasn't looking forward to Carole's party or meltdown.  It wasn't as bad as I expected.  Carole speech was so beautiful and heartfelt JMHO.  Totally felt for her in this episode.  This was the

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

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I can't stand the woman, but I have to acknowledge she had a friend with very different political views wearing a Deplorables t-shirt at her election night party, which shows humor on Radziwill's part, and graciousness. Neither quality is part of being a true elitist, imo. 

I wonder who the friend was.  Or could she have been a relative?  Sometimes people tolerate different things from different people.  Carole was going to make damn sure that Ramona cited chapter and verse her sources for her beliefs.  I seriously doubt this was the case with the "Deplorables" lady.  Just a hunch.  YMMV.

You guys are killing me (with laughter) with all of the funnies.  Kermit......hysterical! 

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NeverLate

NeverLate

(edited)
17 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I wonder who the friend was.  Or could she have been a relative?  Sometimes people tolerate different things from different people.  Carole was going to make damn sure that Ramona cited chapter and verse her sources for her beliefs.  I seriously doubt this was the case with the "Deplorables" lady.  Just a hunch.  YMMV.

I didn't think Carole knew the person that well,I just thought someone was asked to show up, so we could see how tolerant of others she was. ROTFL

Edited by F. M.
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BBHN

BBHN

(edited)
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I wonder who the friend was.  Or could she have been a relative?  Sometimes people tolerate different things from different people.  Carole was going to make damn sure that Ramona cited chapter and verse her sources for her beliefs.  I seriously doubt this was the case with the "Deplorables" lady.  Just a hunch.  YMMV.

Possibly. Maybe she just holds Ramona to a different standard, because, Ramona.

Edited by BBHN
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Mojoker

Mojoker

6 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I'm curious about Sonja's relationship with Harry.

Not the Sonja version as she insists that ring he gave her was an engagement ring. I don't remember him saying Sonja will you marry me when he gave it to her at that party and left.

When she said he consistently throws women in her face..I was like huh?

giphy.gif

Harry is an itch she can't scratch.

Might be crabs or bed bugs not Harry.

Because if a man so much as hands Sonja a napkin at a cocktail party, he's hers for life.  She may not even know his name, but, from that moment forward, everything he says and does for the rest of his life is somehow about Sonja.

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crgirl412

crgirl412

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

I wonder who the friend was.  Or could she have been a relative?  Sometimes people tolerate different things from different people.  Carole was going to make damn sure that Ramona cited chapter and verse her sources for her beliefs.  I seriously doubt this was the case with the "Deplorables" lady.  Just a hunch.  YMMV.

You guys are killing me (with laughter) with all of the funnies.  Kermit......hysterical! 

The woman in the "Deplorables" shirt was a lesbian so in Carole's economy her value went up exponentially and off-set much of her "deplorableness."  I think they were really friends too. 

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SCS

SCS

(edited)
2 hours ago, Trooper York said:

I think that was a production plant. I remember when I did the show they always had a crew member pretending to be a friend of mine or a customer. It is all made up bullshit. 

Wait, you did this show? Obviously I missed these posts. Can you point me to the season/ep and I'll go there to read.

TY, I'm not questioning your comment at all -- I just would love to hear your experience!

Edited by steelcitysister
always best to be clear what one is seeking
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Trooper York

Trooper York

(edited)

No I didn't do this show. Sorry I worded that poorly. I was on another reality show for a season. Most of the crew had worked on the Real Housewives. In fact the girl who was on last season as Ramona's make up  artist was my wife's make up artist on our show.

Reality shows are more alike then they are different. Working with a crew from one show means you get the straight poop about most of the other shows. For instance on "House Hunters" they were always only going to buy the one house. The alternatives are always the houses of friends of the producers or other random people. It is all phony baloney nonsense.

Those guys love to gossip so they had a lot to say about the Real Housewives of New York and New Jersey and Washington since at one time or another they had all worked on the crew on those shows.  

(As an aside Caroline Manzo was very popular. Just sayn')

One of their common tricks is to use a crew member as an "actor" to establish a plot point. You can almost always pick them out. This woman with the t-shirt really gave off that vibe.

Edited by Trooper York
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LIMOM

LIMOM

3 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

No I didn't do this show. I was on another reality show for a season. Most of the crew had worked on the Real Housewives. In fact the girl who was on last season as Ramona's make up  artist was my wife's make up artist on our show.

Reality shows are more alike then they are different. Working with a crew from one show means you get the straight poop about most of the other shows. For instance on "House Hunters" they were always only going to buy the one house. The alternatives are always the houses of friends of the producers or other random people. It is all phony baloney nonsense.

Those guys love to gossip so they had a lot to say about the Real Housewives of New York and New Jersey and Washington since at one time or another they had all worked on the crew on those shows.  

(As an aside Caroline Manzo was very popular. Just sayn')

One of their common tricks is to use a crew member as an "actor" to establish a plot point. You can almost always pick them out. This woman with the t-shirt really gave off that vibe.

 Have you seen/tasted her cooking???? 

Food wins all the time.

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SCS

SCS

1 hour ago, Trooper York said:

 

Those guys love to gossip so they had a lot to say about the Real Housewives of New York and New Jersey and Washington since at one time or another they had all worked on the crew on those shows.  

 

 

And ... you're not going to leave us hanging with that tidbit, are you? Can you share anything without violating an NDA or contract or anything? At least stuff about the NY wives!!!!

If so, should we head over to Small Talk? 

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AttackTurtle

AttackTurtle

16 hours ago, film noire said:

Stop the fake news presses! I agree with Radziwill about something -- from her Housewives blog:

"If being an elitist is doing my civic duty as an informed citizen, understanding the difference between conspiracy theories and legitimate news (and a legitimate candidate vs a con), speaking out against racism, misogyny, lies and hate, and voting against a guy (nothing personal) who doesn’t seem to want the job, and in my opinion is far too unfit, unqualified and inexperienced to lead this country, then I am guilty as charged. Elitist. Lock Me Up!!"

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-9/blogs/carole-radziwill/carole-radziwill-writes-an-open

I also like her kitch'en.

So that's two things. I'm going to hell in a bicycle handbasket.

Her implants give her what I call t'asscrack (when your paid-for cleavage ends up looking like  a plumber's asscrack). Such an ugly trend. 

I am a rabid west coast liberal, but Carole's comments about being more informed than the average voter made me give her a second look.  I don't fault her for being passionate about her candidate.   I drank way too much after the election to try to forget what had happened, but Carole should not be telling people that she knows more about something simply by virtue of having been a journalist 20 years ago.  She came off as an elitist snob in my humble opinion.

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CaliCat

CaliCat

(edited)
23 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I wasn't quite as annoyed with Carole as I expected to be this episode. But her moping, crying, histrionics, and inability to get out of bed (as relayed by Bethenny on social media) in the aftermath of the election is rather a case of study of privilege and self-indulgence in and of itself. As a affluent white woman with social pedigree by proxy, Carole enjoys much more insulation from ideological, political, and policy shifts than even middle class white Americans, let alone minorities. She discovers she can't, in fact, keep her health plan if she likes it? Whatever, she'll be able to afford a new one.

So it's just symptomatic of, yes, delicate rich white sensibilities to be just. so. slain. over the results of an election that won't have a  significantly direct impact on her personally that she apparently can't get up off the sofa. 

Millions of less fortunate citizens didn't have the choice of calling in to their jobs with the vapors even though they're much more subject to governmental shifts. 

I'm not sure how reliable Bethenney's description of Carol's reaction was, since we saw her out with Ramona the next day, but a lot of privileged people were upset because of what they feared would happen to other much more vulnerable people. I don't see it as being symptomatic of Carol's rich white sensibilities; I think it shows her compassion. 

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I pretty much detested Heather and think that she and Carole bring out the worst in each other (i.e. the sneering "Georgia. Of course."). 

I didn't take the Georgia comment as being sneering, just that it was expected. 

I guess we can't help but see everything through our own filters. I had to brace myself to watch the election again via this show, but it wasn't so bad. I was really touched by Carol's speech that she read to her mother. 

Edited by CaliCat
Added that Carol was out the day after the election, not in bed.
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Natalie68

Natalie68

(edited)
5 hours ago, Trooper York said:

If you look up smug liberal elitist social justice warrior  in the dictionary you will see a photo of Carole.

It is a joke to think she is anything but condescending and dismissive of the rest of the country.The snorts of derision about Georgia told you all you need to know about her smug and condescending attitude to flyover America. Bravo cleaned it up because they must have been concerned about the reaction if she spouted off her real beliefs, They fixed it so we only get dribs and drabs of her nasty nonsense the last few episodes. They filmed mealymouthed taking heads for damage control.

Hopefully she will fade into the background and return to her usual occupation of being a barnacle on the ass of a more assertive housewife.

Carole is passionate about the election and it showed.  She walked the talk by campaigning.  I personally think that is commendable whichever side of the aisle one sits.  This was part of her story line and a big part of her life so it was filmed.  I thought it was great that her friend in the Deplorable shirt attended.  So its not as though she has disdain for people voting opposite of her.  

Heather needs to come back to the show.  She had great energy and seems like a good friend.  

Perhaps it was smug and condescending but as someone in CA I repeatedly heard that our vote should not count or that the REAL Americans are in the red states so the left AND right are guilty of this stuff.  For those of us that have the same political positions as she does the insults thrown at her are insults to us even though they may not be meant that way.  I mean did ANYONE predict Georgia would go any other way?

Edited by Natalie68
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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

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For those of us that have the same political positions as she does the insults thrown at her are insults to us even though they may not be meant that way.

My complaints about Carole are not a blanket criticism of that entire voting bloc.  It's based on what she said on camera in regards to us "uninformed voters."   It was highly insulting. 

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Natalie68

Natalie68

13 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

My complaints about Carole are not a blanket criticism of that entire voting bloc.  It's based on what she said on camera in regards to us "uninformed voters."   It was highly insulting. 

Gotcha.  I haven't thought you were insulting at all.   I may need to rewatch but I took her 'uniformed voter' remarks about Ramona.  Not sure that is true about Ramona but that is how I took it.  Hopefully she wasn't referring to all Trump voters.  If she was that isn't cool.

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

Quote

I haven't thought you were insulting at all.   I may need to rewatch but I took her 'uniformed voter' remarks about Ramona

Thanks!  It's not my intent to make anybody on here feel bad.  We're all here to snark on these ladies, not each other!  ;)

Unfortunately, Carole did say in one of her THs that "most people don't know much about politics," so after that, I took everything she said as a blanket statement about anti-Hillary folks.

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motorcitymom65

motorcitymom65

32 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Thanks!  It's not my intent to make anybody on here feel bad.  We're all here to snark on these ladies, not each other!  ;)

Unfortunately, Carole did say in one of her THs that "most people don't know much about politics," so after that, I took everything she said as a blanket statement about anti-Hillary folks.

I can absolutely see someone taking her statement that way. I took it to mean that most people don't know much about politics, period. I'm on the same side of the fence as she is, but I would say that in my world that is true, regardless of whether folks vote blue or red. It's not fatal at all, IMO. Some folks just aren't that interested which it more than fine. In general, the more passionate you are about something, the more you educate yourself. 

I know nothing about fashion, but know folks that do and they cannot for the life of them understand why I just don't care. My closest girlfriend can go on for days about how most women don't know how to dress their bodies. No event or simple dinner party will ever end without a synopsis of what everyone did wrong. Doesn't bother me one wit because maybe it's true that most women don't know how to dress their bodies. I could not imagine giving less of a shit. I know people who treat their bodies like a temple and lament the fact that most people do not. Doesn't bother me at all because probably most people don't. I think that in general throwing out these kinds of statements doesn't really mean that much because most people do it about one thing or another. This happens to be Carole's thing. 

  • Love 12
Chit Chat

Chit Chat

(edited)
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I know nothing about fashion, but know folks that do and they cannot for the life of them understand why I just don't care. My closest girlfriend can go on for days about how most women don't know how to dress their bodies.

That would be annoying, but you're a good friend to sit and nod, and pretend like you care!  I mentioned in an earlier thread how Carole needs to learn to read the room/person.  If she brings up a topic and the other person gets defensive or is obviously not interested, she should change the subject.  I know I would!   I'm sure we all have to read people in our everyday lives, and we know when to speak or when to shut up!   Carole shouldn't hit people over the head in hopes that they'll share her beliefs. 

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Some folks just aren't that interested which it more than fine. In general, the more passionate you are about something, the more you educate yourself. 

I think the problem with this past election was that no matter which side of the aisle you were on, there were so many of us who were sick and tired of all of the campaigning by all of them.  We felt like we had been hit over the head with the information, which never really changed over the course of the past year.  Everybody I talked to had made up their mind and just wanted the whole thing to be over with one way or the other.  I really don't know how much more studying people could've done, seeing as how we heard the same rhetoric (both sides) over and over again, then again at the debates.  I couldn't figure out how people could be undecided at the last minute.  We were on overload with all of the information!!  I don't think Carole understood this either.  Maybe when someone said they weren't interested in talking politics with her, it was because they were tired of it all and just didn't feel like getting into a debate/discussion about it.  I know a lot of people who felt that way.  It had already been talked to death.  I think Carole needed to talk to people because deep down she was really nervous.  She needed the reassurance.   As for many of us, we knew the chips would fall where they may, and if it was a disappointment to us, well, we'd get up the next morning and go to work and get on with our lives.  No crying or staying in bed for days.  Sadness?  Yes, but our lives wouldn't come to a grinding halt as we found a safe space in which to hide. 

Edited by ChitChat
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film noire

film noire

(edited)
7 hours ago, AttackTurtle said:

 but Carole should not be telling people that she knows more about something simply by virtue of having been a journalist 20 years ago.  

Her last job as a journalist was on the front lines in Afghanistan, embedded with the 101st airborne -- not twenty years ago, but in 2004 -- she won a Peabody and three Emmys (one Emmy was for a story about a real fluff topic: land mines in Cambodia).  She may be lying but at least publicly, she cites both the right leaning Wall Street Journal and the left leaning The Atlantic as reading material. She is friends and a former colleague of the people who report the news (and hear the news that can't be reported at all). I can't stand the woman but she absolutely has bragging rights when it comes to claiming she has legit credentials in this arena. 

Edited by film noire
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motorcitymom65

motorcitymom65

On 5/6/2017 at 10:43 PM, ChitChat said:

That would be annoying, but you're a good friend to sit and nod, and pretend like you care!  I mentioned in an earlier thread how Carole needs to learn to read the room/person.  If she brings up a topic and the other person gets defensive or is obviously not interested, she should change the subject.  I know I would!   I'm sure we all have to read people in our everyday lives, and we know when to speak or when to shut up!   Carole shouldn't hit people over the head in hopes that they'll share her beliefs. 

I think the problem with this past election was that no matter which side of the aisle you were on, there were so many of us who were sick and tired of all of the campaigning by all of them.  We felt like we had been hit over the head with the information, which never really changed over the course of the past year.  Everybody I talked to had made up their mind and just wanted the whole thing to be over with one way or the other.  I really don't know how much more studying people could've done, seeing as how we heard the same rhetoric (both sides) over and over again, then again at the debates.  I couldn't figure out how people could be undecided at the last minute.  We were on overload with all of the information!!  I don't think Carole understood this either.  Maybe when someone said they weren't interested in talking politics with her, it was because they were tired of it all and just didn't feel like getting into a debate/discussion about it.  I know a lot of people who felt that way.  It had already been talked to death.  I think Carole needed to talk to people because deep down she was really nervous.  She needed the reassurance.   As for many of us, we knew the chips would fall where they may, and if it was a disappointment to us, well, we'd get up the next morning and go to work and get on with our lives.  No crying or staying in bed for days.  Sadness?  Yes, but our lives wouldn't come to a grinding halt as we found a safe space in which to hide. 

I am with you. How people remain undecided until the last minute is a mystery to me. 

But the thing is, with some people who really love it all, we weren't tired of it. I never got sick of it, and I don't think Carole did either.  I read Politico on my iPad every morning before I get out of bed. Not just during election season, but every single day. I have a TV in my bathroom for fear I will miss something on Morning Joe politically oriented while I am getting ready in the morning. Again, not when there is an election, but every single day. Because I love it. It is my favorite thing after football and food. I am sure my Sirius radio offers something other than political channels, but couldn't confirm because I've never listened to anything else in all the years I have subscribed. By following Carole on Twitter she is exactly the same. She watches the daily White House Briefings too (I DVR them). It's probably crazy behavior, but if you love it, you are not sick of it or wanting it to be over.  There is a huge difference in passively taking in the information because it is there and you cannot escape it,  and actively seeking out more and more because you cannot get enough of it. It doesn't mean she is right in the conclusions she may reach because she clearly has a bias, but I have zero doubt it means she knows more about the issues being discussed. 

  • Love 12
WireWrap

WireWrap

19 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I am with you. How people remain undecided until the last minute is a mystery to me. 

But the thing is, with some people who really love it all, we weren't tired of it. I never got sick of it, and I don't think Carole did either.  I read Politico on my iPad every morning before I get out of bed. Not just during election season, but every single day. I have a TV in my bathroom for fear I will miss something on Morning Joe politically oriented while I am getting ready in the morning. Again, not when there is an election, but every single day. Because I love it. It is my favorite thing after football and food. I am sure my Sirius radio offers something other than political channels, but couldn't confirm because I've never listened to anything else in all the years I have subscribed. By following Carole on Twitter she is exactly the same. She watches the daily White House Briefings too (I DVR them). It's probably crazy behavior, but if you love it, you are not sick of it or wanting it to be over.  There is a huge difference in passively taking in the information because it is there and you cannot escape it,  and actively seeking out more and more because you cannot get enough of it. It doesn't mean she is right in the conclusions she may reach because she clearly has a bias, but I have zero doubt it means she knows more about the issues being discussed. 

I understand what you are saying but Carole was outright rude to Ramona. She dismissed Ramona's opinions/thoughts not because she "knew" better about what was going on (politically) but because Ramona brought up a touchy subject, the emails, IMO. Carole didn't want an open dialog/discussion about the candidates or the issues around them, she wanted to hear that Ramona was pro Carole's choice. No matter what, when you are trying to inform someone about "your" candidate, beating them over the head with a superior attitude isn't going to change anyone's mind, if anything, it tends to make people stop listening and dig their heels in even harder.

As for listening to politics like you/Carol, I couldn't do it. Hearing them say 1 thing then do the opposite would drive me to madness. LOL

  • Love 5
breezy424

breezy424

Carole and the rented car cracked me up.  Because...I have this car with so much stuff on it that I still haven't figured out.  Really.  I have a love/hate relationship.

I call the Nav lady 'Mary'.  I hate Mary.  Mary doesn't understand me when I talk to her.  I live on the East Coast and she has given me directions to Idaho.  True story.  I still haven't figured out radio presets.  I've figured out how to set them but I haven't figured out how to get to them.  Nope.  There aren't buttons that you hold down to set presets.  You have to go into the 'system'.  I finally figured out the button to push when you get a phone call.  I thought it was another button...talk.  Nope.  That's only for talking to Mary.  And Mary doesn't like me. 

I've pushed so many buttons on my car it's ridiculous.  That includes the console and the steering wheel.  I get where Carole is coming from but I also get where her mom is coming from.  Crap.  My last how many cars have had cruise control.  Never used that.  Too many cars on the highway to rely on that.

And then there are the back up cameras.  The 'cameras' freakin beep and I think I'm going to hit something.  Backing out of the garage or shopping parking lot is an experience unto itself.   What?  Where?  It's an anxiety experience.

Ok.  I'm very fortunate to have what I have.  But sometimes, I just love driving my kid's Civic.   

  • Love 15
lunastartron

lunastartron

8 hours ago, CaliCat said:

I'm not sure how reliable Bethenney's description of Carol's reaction was, since we saw her out with Ramona the next day, but a lot of privileged people were upset because of what they feared would happen to other much more vulnerable people. I don't see it as being symptomatic of Carol's rich white sensibilities; I think it shows her compassion. 

I didn't take the Georgia comment as being sneering, just that it was expected. 

I guess we can't help but see everything through our own filters. I had to brace myself to watch the election again via this show, but it wasn't so bad. I was really touched by Carol's speech that she read to her mother. 

I might be able to digest the premise that Carole's distress was about compassion.

For some reason, though, that and concern for women/feminist ideals are not the first motivations that come to mind when Carole Tweets "#MelaniaTakesHerClothesOff4money." 

7 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Carole is passionate about the election and it showed.  She walked the talk by campaigning.  I personally think that is commendable whichever side of the aisle one sits.  This was part of her story line and a big part of her life so it was filmed.  I thought it was great that her friend in the Deplorable shirt attended.  So its not as though she has disdain for people voting opposite of her.  

Heather needs to come back to the show.  She had great energy and seems like a good friend.  

Perhaps it was smug and condescending but as someone in CA I repeatedly heard that our vote should not count or that the REAL Americans are in the red states so the left AND right are guilty of this stuff.  For those of us that have the same political positions as she does the insults thrown at her are insults to us even though they may not be meant that way.  I mean did ANYONE predict Georgia would go any other way?

Well, yes, there were, in fact, many articles during 2016 from sources that Carole would deem "informed" about how Hillary was going to turn both Georgia and Arizona blue. 

As well as polls that supposedly supported this competitiveness. 

It all gets a bit circular though since there were identical myths from those ne plus ultras of informed reporting during 2014 that proved to be incorrect in the extreme.

And then there was Heather muttering "unbelievable" and Carole wincing when Indiana of all places came back for Trump despite THAT state definitevly being in the solidly red column. 

  • Love 8
CaliCat

CaliCat

13 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

I might be able to digest the premise that Carole's distress was about compassion.

For some reason, though, that and concern for women/feminist ideals are not the first motivations that come to mind when Carole Tweets "#MelaniaTakesHerClothesOff4money." 

I couldn't find a tweet by anyone with that hashtag. I don't follow Carol on Twitter, I just know her from the show. 

  • Love 3
lunastartron

lunastartron

33 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

I couldn't find a tweet by anyone with that hashtag. I don't follow Carol on Twitter, I just know her from the show. 

She has definitely used it or a variant of it or #MelaniaTakesClothesOff4$

Ironically, iirc, at least once when commenting upon ad hominem attacks against Michelle Obama. 

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