S06.E18: Where Bluebirds Fly

[superloislane]

It wasn't a bad episode but it also wasn't great. It was mostly kind of pointless. 

Zelena accidentally does something that helps the Black Fairy...and then undoes it by the end. That was basically the plot of this episode. Was there a point? If Zelena's magic in a box comes up again I'll say there was a point to this episode. I'm glad Zelena gave up her magic which was an actual sacrifice for her but this should happen to all the villains with magic, not just Zelena. 

Whenever they put Regina with Zelena they have Regina become an even bigger bitch than she usually is. I hate Zelena but I felt really bad for her when she said that Regina is all she has. Can you imagine? I did like when Gideon flung Regina around - that was fun and made me like Gideon for once.

I could not stop laughing at Zelena running after the Black Fairy around those little rocks. 

I really liked the Snow and Charming stuff - it was funny and character driven! I couldn't believe! Charming is yet again proving that he's the far better parent in that relationship since he was actually thinking of Emma and what she might have to go through while Snow was YET AGAIN talking about what's best for the town. She needs to get over the town! And when she talked about missing so many of Emma's milestones, I was screaming to myself 'You CHOSE to do that!'. But all that said, I actually liked Snow in this episode for once with her wedding book and everything.

Belle is still useless and still doesn't tell anybody anything. Blue Fairy in the back? Keep it quiet. Gideon remaking the sword that could kill Emma? Keep that quiet too. What does she do in that shop every single day?

Henry and author powers...ugh. I did wonder why he was writing 'Emma wins the final battle' when he could just write 'The final battle never happens' but whatever.

'Oh no the final battle! Has the final battle begun?' - I'm pretty sure they'd know when the final battle began otherwise it's not much of a final battle.

And I saved the best until last...PANCAKES!!!!!!!

I have watched that scene an unhealthy amount of times already. I did not expect it - I thought we were going to have to deal with them being virgins until the end but here we have what's clearly a morning after scene where they were about to have sex on their kitchen table! And Hook had his actual jacket off! That has never happened before! Were they just sick and tired of people questioning why he never takes that jacket off even in his own house? And both of them looked crazy attractive in that scene it's ridiculous. I'm happy as can be right now.

[KingOfHearts]

Regina was almost pitiful in this episode. She got knocked on the ground twice. The Evil Queen, Destroyer of Worlds, has been reduced to fairy fodder. Her magic has been useless on its own for a while. Does she contribute anything but exposition these days?

Quote

Henry and author powers...ugh. I did wonder why he was writing 'Emma wins the final battle' when he could just write 'The final battle never happens' but whatever.

Is the final battle a fixed point in time, al a Doctor Who?

Edited April 24, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

I always shake my head at kids like those bullies in the first part of Zelenas teenaged flashback. Who are these idiots who are always picking on people who have amazing powers of which they cant hope to defend themselves against? This always seems to happen in TV/movies/books with kids with magic or superpowers, and I never understand it. I get that people fear what they don't understand and blah blah blah, but you KNOW she has powers! Who would want to be friends with the girl with magic? Who wouldn't want to be friends with the girl with magic? At best, you get a friend who can magically do your chores so you can hang out faster, and do all kinds of other cool magic stuff with you, or at worst, when she becomes a super villain after years of torment and wants to get back at her enemies, you have a better chance of being spared her wrath.

You know those kids are eating bananas with their feet in Oz now. If they were lucky.

Edited April 24, 2017 by tennisgurl

[AudienceofOne]

2 hours ago, Worsel said:

It was my understanding that this was a fragment of a wand, not a crystal.  But maybe it was a crystal - got very confusing through the episode as one black thing looked much like another.

No, it was the DARK CRYSTAL. I love that movie. That movie is way better than this show. I might go and watch it.

I enjoyed this episode a lot even if they just shat all over the Tin Man as a concept. I'm assuming this also messes with Oz continuity but since I've never seen Wicked I couldn't say that for sure. Since Dorothy had the Tin Man and Cowardly Lion with her when she met the Wizard in the original text - and the Wizard is gone - this seems to pretty well ruin that. Also, this Tin Man was a man of heart even without one so... yeah, that screws that up too. Who needs a metaphor when you can take something completely literally and destroy all its meaning?

Oh well, in this season something like that is a minor gripe compared to the other crap retcons that have been happening. Belle is still the worst, which is saying something when she's married to the Dark One. The Black Fairy 'revelation' really annoyed me. In a world where she kidnapped her grandson, tore out his heart and sent him to kill somebody, apparently the reason she gave up her son is the one thing she doesn't want that son to know. Also, whatever happened to Belle and Hook's friendship? Where did that go?

After all that, it may not seem like it but I enjoyed this episode. Zelena was actually used with purpose and consistently with her characterisation. The plot moved along. There was good quality Captain Swan - although it seemed to be built on mass amnesia.

My favourite line of the night "Is this about Hook? Because that ship has sailed and it has a pirate on it."

[Shanna Marie]

33 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I always shake my head at kids like those bullies in the first part of Zelenas teenaged flashback. Who are these idiots who are always picking on people who have amazing powers of which they cant hope to defend themselves against?

That's what I tend to wonder. Plus, as I mentioned before, why is someone living in a fairly magical world considered a freak for having magical powers? They're in a land ruled by a group of good witches, so the person with magical powers could be special and a future leader. I could see that making kids jealous and catty, but we also had Zelena's foster father calling her wicked because of her magic. That would make more sense in a place like the Enchanted Forest, where most of the magic users we've seen have been evil. But they don't seem to have any negative attitudes about magic there, and yet in the place where they have good witches, it's all "freak" and "wicked."

[superloislane]

59 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

At best, you get a friend who can magically do your chores so you can hang out faster, and do all kinds of other cool magic stuff with you, or at worst, when she becomes a super villain after years of torment and wants to get back at her enemies, you have a better chance of being spared her wrath.

Unless you're the kid who the girl accidentally kills with her magic leading to everyone calling her evil and you become part of her sob story in the future. You always have to know what story you're in!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On April 23, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Last Time Lord said:

I do not get the title.

"Where Bluebirds Fly" is a line from the song "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" in the MGM film version of The Wizard of Oz. Unless you mean you don't get how it describes this episode, which it doesn't really, apart from being Zelena-centric with backstory in Oz.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, the show ran into a problem a long time ago because they can't seem to break free of their formula of "heroes vs. villains." You can only have so many Big  Bads before you start contradicting yourself. At this point, Rumple is supposed to have absorbed the powers of every Dark One since time immemorial, and is the personification of Darkness itself. He should be the most powerful dark magic worker in the known universe.

And somehow it isn't killing him like being the Dark One was doing before.

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's what I tend to wonder. Plus, as I mentioned before, why is someone living in a fairly magical world considered a freak for having magical powers? They're in a land ruled by a group of good witches, so the person with magical powers could be special and a future leader. I could see that making kids jealous and catty, but we also had Zelena's foster father calling her wicked because of her magic. That would make more sense in a place like the Enchanted Forest, where most of the magic users we've seen have been evil. But they don't seem to have any negative attitudes about magic there, and yet in the place where they have good witches, it's all "freak" and "wicked."

Why wasn't Zelena defending herself, or scaring them off by pretending to do magic, or throwing something at them with magic?  She seemed completely helpless... yeah, yeah, I know she was the purest of all innocents and the paragon of goodness as a child, so it's all the more ironic she became so jealous and "wicked" when she found out she had a sister.  Riiiight...

Up until this episode, I thought the father forced her to keep her magic hidden or something.  But here, the other kids seem to know all about it.  Such consistency is what I love about this show.

Why would Zelena need someone to bring her salt?  Oh never mind...

[Shanna Marie]

9 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

And somehow it isn't killing him like being the Dark One was doing before.

That took more than a century, but then he got his heart purged of darkness and got to start over, so he's got about a hundred or so more years to go before the darkness fills his heart entirely again. More or less, depending on how evil he is. And it wasn't so much being the Dark One that was killing him. It was his evil deeds filling his heart with blackness, killing him, but he'd still be physically alive because as Dark One, he was immortal, so there would have been no Rumple left in his body, just pure Dark One. He just managed to get more blackness in his heart than most people due to being alive a lot longer and having more potential for doing spectacular levels of evil than most people, thanks to his powers. So maybe he can hold out a little longer if Belle's holding his leash.

[Last Time Lord]

44 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

"Where Bluebirds Fly" is a line from the song "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" in the MGM film version of The Wizard of Oz. Unless you mean you don't get how it describes this episode, which it doesn't really, apart from being Zelena-centric with backstory in Oz.

Fittingly, the line being a lyric in Over The Rainbow went over my head. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

"Where Bluebirds Fly" is a line from the song "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" in the MGM film version of The Wizard of Oz. Unless you mean you don't get how it describes this episode, which it doesn't really, apart from being Zelena-centric with backstory in Oz.

They really could have taken any line from "Over the Rainbow", because bluebirds had nothing to do with the episode. "Lemon Drops"? "Once in a Lullaby"? "Why Can't I"?

Regina still has Zelena's pendant. I wonder if there's any residual magic left in that? Maybe she'll kickstart it by believing in herself!

Edited April 25, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RulerofallIsurvey]

4 hours ago, superloislane said:

'Oh no the final battle! Has the final battle begun?' - I'm pretty sure they'd know when the final battle began otherwise it's not much of a final battle.

While not in the episode proper, it was in the 'previouslies' - I laughed when Henry asked Isaac 'what happens at the end of the book?'  Duh, Henry!  It's a book of Fairy Tales: "And they lived Happily Ever After."  So why is everyone so worried?

Also: Emilie looks really good.  She has lost all her pregnancy weight.  

Too many other nitpicks sprang to mind upon the second rewatch (and I just pretended the Snowing retcon of last week didn't happen when Emma and Snow were looking at the scrapbook.)  The Emma/Hook pancake scene was still the best.  

[adam807]

2 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Emilie looks really good.  She has lost all her pregnancy weight.  

They must be hiding a baby in that wig. 

[tennisgurl]

31 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why Can't I"?

Actually that would have been a better title than When Bluebirds Fly, which might be a line from the song, but really has nothing to do with the actual episode. The Why Cant I line not only is from the song (which, to be fair, isn't a bad thing to shout out in the title), but actually thematically works for Zelenas story of envy and never belonging.

[Camera One]

Yeah, "Why Can't I" is appropriately whiny.

Or "Sour Lemon Drops"... that could describe Regina, Zelena and The Black Fairy.

[jhlipton]

I totally took Zelena's side in the mine.  She's a witch on the scale of Emma and Regina, if not more powerful than Regina, but no one says "We want you to help us."  Of course she's going to go off on her own -- why wouldn't she?

On 4/23/2017 at 9:03 PM, InsertWordHere said:

I was hoping the Tin Man would somehow be fixed by the use of the Crimson Heart at the end. Maybe he was, but we'll probably never know.

TSTW -- all signs point to "No".

On 4/23/2017 at 9:13 PM, KingOfHearts said:

1) Regina is such a bitch. I still hate her for how she treats Zelena.

2) Why would you make the wife of the man who wants to kill you the babysitter of your child?

3) The Mills family uses magic from the air. How can you strip their magic? Was Zelena inherently magical this whole time like Emma?!

1) Yes.  Whatever Zelana has done (murder, rape, whatever), Regina has done 10 times worse.

2) Because she's family!!!  (step-nephew's grandmother-in-law)

3) Even though we were told (about 6 times) just 2 episodes ago that "all magic (even wishes) has a price!"  Except when it doesn't.

On 4/23/2017 at 9:18 PM, scenicbyway said:

I guess Zelena made a good sacrifice but we'll probably find out later it didn't matter so...

TSTW -- all signs point to "Yes"

On 4/23/2017 at 9:29 PM, Mrs. de Winter said:

I found myself wondering if I might have had more use for the Evil Queen if Bex had been cast instead of LP

I doubt it -- it's not Lana's acting that kills the character (I think she does about as well as can be expecte3d), it's the awful writing.

22 hours ago, Camera One said:

The Big Bad Lion was scary until he wasn't.  Huh?

A true "Cowardly Lion" would have cringed at the first fireball.  TSTW...

[Camera One]

Let's say Zelena did go into the Mines by herself and Regina didn't know/didn't follow her.  Let's see what would have happened.  She would have gone into the Mines.  She would have activated the Crystals with her magic, just as The Black Fairy wanted her to.  The Black Fairy would apparate her back to the surface.  She realizes it's her fault.  She gets the Crimson Heart.  Same difference... nothing would have changed.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Let's say Zelena did go into the Mines by herself and Regina didn't know/didn't follow her.  Let's see what would have happened.  She would have gone into the Mines.  She would have activated the Crystals with her magic, just as The Black Fairy wanted her to.  The Black Fairy would apparate her back to the surface.  She realizes it's her fault.  She gets the Crimson Heart.  Same difference... nothing would have changed.

Without Regina, Zelena would have gone back down into the Mines to try to use the crystals against the Black Fairy and gotten trounced again. That was her plan until Regina had words with her again after they were apparated back to the surface.

[Camera One]

The title of this episode is actually very deep and significant.  In the song, Dorothy sings about "happy little bluebirds" flying over the rainbow, BUT she did not realize that Oz did not have bluebirds, and she would eventually go home where the bluebirds actually are.  Likewise, Zelena in this episode decided to stay in Storybrooke, where the bluebirds are, represented by the rebirth of Blue as she is waking up, and also Snow, Friend of Bluebirds.  And the title also alludes to the fact that blue (for bluebirds) actually mixes with Zelena's favorite color green, along with the color red (since Zelena is seeing red in this episode, plus it represents Cora, and the blood she shares with Regina), to make white light, aka white magic, the color of the crystal, the colour of Miller's flour, which is white.  To top it off, this title is projecting the wedding subplot, since we had something old (The Black Fairy), something new (the pancakes), something borrowed (the Crimson Heart) and something Blue.  I hope that explains how meaningful this episode title is.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Camera One

[AudienceofOne]

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The title of this episode is actually very deep and significant.  In the song, Dorothy sings about "happy little bluebirds" flying over the rainbow, BUT she did not realize that Oz did not have bluebirds, and she would eventually go home where the bluebirds actually are.  Likewise, Zelena in this episode decided to stay in Storybrooke, where the bluebirds are, represented by the rebirth of Blue as she is waking up, and also Snow, Friend of Bluebirds.  And the title also alludes to the fact that blue (for bluebirds) actually mixes with Zelena's favorite color green, along with the color red (since Zelena is seeing red in this episode, plus it represents Cora, and the blood she shares with Regina), to make white light, aka white magic, the color of the crystal, the colour of Miller's flour, which is white.  To top it off, this title is projecting the wedding subplot, since we had something old (The Black Fairy), something new (the pancakes), something borrowed (the Crimson Heart) and something Blue.  I hope that explains how meaningful this episode title is.

Are you kidding? That's amazing. And has more meaning than this whole season put together. 

[Mitch]

Well, at least something happened this episode..nothing important or that made sense but...at least the Black Fairy tried something and partially succeeded but then ultimately was defeated. The question is..what is it she wants? Shouldn't we know that so we are indeed aware of the stakes when The Final Battle takes place? Please don't tell me its to take over SB...SNORE....Wouldn't it be nice to know that she wanted to bring magic to the entire LWOM and rule it, or to enslave all the realms or wanted to be Trump's Secretary of Labor or wanted to enlist the EQ, Zelena and every other female magic user to launch a show to compete with Rupaul's Drag Race...they should be really upping the tension, instead we have forced cutsey scenes about a wedding (that no one in their right mind would discuss at this point) to placate the Hook and Emma fans (who I think are the only people left watching at this point) which makes Snow look even more idiotic then usual...(can someone get her IQ checked..she gets more moronic each episode...) and the BF standing around telling people they should fear her but she doesn't do anything much.

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

.A true "Cowardly Lion" would have cringed at the first fireball.  TSTW...

Sigh..they really do p*ss all over Oz cannon...Dorothy is the  Once usual ineffectual non magic using "hero" the Scarecrow cowers from Zelena and looses his brain which we never see returned...Auntie Em is in hell...the Tin Man is a frozen..tin man..the Cowardly Lion is a monster in the woods (who did get a few good swipes at Z) and none of them met Dorothy or were helped by her on screen.  Yes, tell me again this is a show about "hope" (shut up Snow.) The show was pretty faithful to the Brother's Grim stories and Disney versions, but the story we all grew up with is treated like crap. Speaking of the Lion, even the Walking Dead's CGI lion is better, and it is more effectual and smarter then the flesh and blood heroes of Once (and he somehow knows the difference between the bad and good guys. )

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I doubt it -- it's not Lana's acting that kills the character (I think she does about as well as can be expecte3d), it's the awful writing.

I think this episode points out its not the actresses fault...the writing and direction works against them and there is no chance for the subtlety, you are either a "hero" or a villain and if you change its on a dime.  At the point that Zelena has to decide if she is going to make the sacrifice for the Tin Man she should have shown hesitation, that she wanted to help, but she was afraid of loosing her power, and after she has made her choice she should have shown some regret...instead its..."Oh I'm not going to give up my power" and then its "Have fun being frozen in Tin..MAWHAHAHA" Seeing her struggle and regret in OZ, would have made her sacrifice in SB more signifigant.  Both LP and RM have the chops and brains to make their characters more sympathetic and conflicted, but they wont let them...again you are either a cackling villain or a dewy eyed dope like Snow.  The animated films were more subtle.  As it is, I don't really care what Zelena did..she still stole the brains, left her friend frozen, assisted Hades in sending Aunt Em to hell, killed Marion, etc, etc. And she did it all in typical Mills fashion, feeling sorry for herself, she deserves to pay, as does Regina. I think both actresses could make us root for their characters, but the idiots in charge wont let them do it.
 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Zelena Does A Good Deed On Once Upon A Time

But will watching be a punishment?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Zelena Does A Good Deed On Once Upon A Time

Misread that as "Zelena is as Good as Dead on Once Upon a Time".

Quote

The title of this episode is actually very deep and significant... I hope that explains how meaningful this episode title is.

It's as if Jane were typing on your keyboard, @Camera One.

Quote

it's not Lana's acting that kills the character (I think she does about as well as can be expecte3d), it's the awful writing.

We should give Lana credit where credit is due. She is trying so hard to make a heartless bitch look sympathetic and heroic. How could any actor sell such a poorly written character?

Edited April 25, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[CCTC]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

We should give Lana credit where credit is due. She is trying so hard to make a heartless bitch look sympathetic and heroic. How could any actor sell such a poorly written character?

It does not help, that they avoid having her look bad or getting called out on her actions or realize she screwed up like Zelina did in this episode.  Although, I think they have actually gotten better with that this year.  Snow and Charming have both recently alluded to her casting the first curse recently, and I think in general the character has shown more remorse and self-awareness, although not so much with Zelina.

I thought Bex did a great job and does well playing the subtext and undercurrents of her character.  If they keep her around next year, I hope they would spend more time balancing the sister relationship.  The two actresses are pretty strong and can play off of each other well.

I did cringe when Belle hugged Gold.  Nothing against the actors, but I just want them gone.  I can ignore Regina and Zelina's actions more, but with Gold there is that underlying message of "it does not matter how bad your spouse is -- there is hope that he will stop being abusive if you hang in there and an external threat can make you forget about all the horrible things he did independent of that threat".

Nice to see Gramps Charming and Henry have a scene.  I thought one of the more interesting things about 2A, was the somewhat realistic scenes of two parental figures (Charming and Regina) who are not in a relationship and even antagonistic work together for the best interests of the child.   I wish they would have kept that up a little more besides the once or twice a season Henry has a scene with Charming or Hook who give him some parental advice.

I thought it was a decent episode.  Not as good as last week or Murder Most Foul (prior to the last scene), but not bad.  I actually think there have been a number of episodes that individually have been fine.  I think the problems have been in  the mini-arcs (Gideon - shaky hand - Aladdin - Evil Queen) have been lessened by having breaks in their momentum or just being uninspired.  A lot of decent parts but not adding up as an effective narrative in the big picture.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The question is..what is it she wants? Shouldn't we know that so we are indeed aware of the stakes when The Final Battle takes place? Please don't tell me its to take over SB...SNORE....Wouldn't it be nice to know that she wanted to bring magic to the entire LWOM and rule it, or to enslave all the realms or wanted to be Trump's Secretary of Labor or wanted to enlist the EQ, Zelena and every other female magic user to launch a show to compete with Rupaul's Drag Race...they should be really upping the tension, instead we have forced cutsey scenes about a wedding (that no one in their right mind would discuss at this point) to placate the Hook and Emma fans (who I think are the only people left watching at this point) which makes Snow look even more idiotic then usual...(can someone get her IQ checked..she gets more moronic each episode...) and the BF standing around telling people they should fear her but she doesn't do anything much.

LOL to your entire post. I said last week whatever the Black Fairy has planned she can't be too bright. Instead of confronting Emma and letting the whole town know she's there, should could have sprung a surprise attack on them. Why give everyone the chance to prepare and plan ahead?

Quote

Dorothy sings about "happy little bluebirds" flying over the rainbow, BUT she did not realize that Oz did not have bluebirds, and she would eventually go home where the bluebirds actually are.

Huh? There are birds aplenty in Oz, blue and otherwise. "Birds of rare and beautiful plumage" are described in the book. Dorothy does not yearn for a more beautiful, idealized place in the books. And in the movie her desire to return home is driven more by the Wicked Witch's threats. I suppose in either case you could argue she realizes she was better off in Kansas, but I fail to see what bluebirds have to do with it.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Huh? There are birds aplenty in Oz, blue and otherwise. "Birds of rare and beautiful plumage" are described in the book. Dorothy does not yearn for a more beautiful, idealized place in the books. And in the movie her desire to return home is driven more by the Wicked Witch's threats. I suppose in either case you could argue she realizes she was better off in Kansas, but I fail to see what bluebirds have to do with it.

It's not supposed to make sense.  It was only a joke.

Quote

I said last week whatever the Black Fairy has planned she can't be too bright. Instead of confronting Emma and letting the whole town know she's there, should could have sprung a surprise attack on them. Why give everyone the chance to prepare and plan ahead?

Yes, every villain on this show seems to do this.  Big and showy threats are their main forté.

8 hours ago, Mitch said:

Well, at least something happened this episode..nothing important or that made sense but...at least the Black Fairy tried something and partially succeeded but then ultimately was defeated. The question is..what is it she wants? Shouldn't we know that so we are indeed aware of the stakes when The Final Battle takes place? 

It's like the Writers think simply calling it "The Final Battle" is enough to make us think it's a big deal.  

Edited April 26, 2017 by Camera One

[Curio]

I'm a little late on watching and commenting about this episode, but I guess I picked a good one to miss live because there's only 2 pages of comments so far. But I don't have much to comment on anyways because most of the episode was rather pointless.

On 4/24/2017 at 4:58 PM, superloislane said:

Zelena accidentally does something that helps the Black Fairy...and then undoes it by the end. That was basically the plot of this episode.

 

 

That basically sums it up. Zelena did something bad, then she fixed it. We're literally back at square one plot-wise, except now Zelena doesn't have magic. Which, by the way, is an actual sacrifice that the show has always been too afraid to make Regina suffer. That's how you knock a villain down a peg. Zelena is by far the more sympathetic Mills sister and it's not even close at this point. Did Regina even apologize for how she treated Zelena after Zelena made the comment about saving Regina's life from Hades? Why didn't Zelena go back to Oz to save her real friend the Tin Man? Why go back to Regina who barely tolerates her? I thought it would have been a lot more poignant if Zelena chose to go back to Oz where she knows everyone hates her, but she gives up her powers to help the Tin Man become human again using the crystal heart thing, but by giving up her magic, that creates a domino effect where it reverses the Black Fairy's dark crystals. I like Bex, but I really don't see much of a reason for Zelena to stick around Storybrooke anymore.

More pancake scenes, please.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Curio

[Camera One]

13 minutes ago, Curio said:

Did Regina even apologize for how she treated Zelena after Zelena made the comment about saving Regina's life from Hades?

Regina said "I'm so sorry for everything", so I guess it covers that.

At least Zelena got an apology within a single season.

Compared to Snow... six seasons and Regina still hasn't said that.  It was technically The Evil Queen who said "I'm so sorry for what I put you through".  Which could mean the Sleeping Curse, or more, or less.  Does "killing your father" fall under "what I put you through"?  Why didn't Snow get a blanket "everything"?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

On 4/25/2017 at 2:26 AM, Camera One said:

I hope that explains how meaningful this episode title is.

Brilliant!

On 4/25/2017 at 11:14 AM, Mitch said:

she ... wanted to enlist the EQ, Zelena and every other female magic user to launch a show to compete with Rupaul's Drag Race

They could call it "The Cleavage of Evil (not mine -- it was coined around season 2 I think) Challenge"

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

LOL to your entire post. I said last week whatever the Black Fairy has planned she can't be too bright. Instead of confronting Emma and letting the whole town know she's there, should could have sprung a surprise attack on them. Why give everyone the chance to prepare and plan ahead?

Because they never do?  "Oooh, there's some new Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil threatening us.  Let's ignore it until the last few episodes."

15 hours ago, Camera One said:

Regina said "I'm so sorry for everything"

Then went right back to bitching at Z!

[iMonrey]

Quote

 "Oooh, there's some new Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil threatening us.  Let's ignore it until the last few episodes."

Actually, it's more like "We have to find a way to defeat (insert season villain here) so we will put our lives on hold until we do, although we won't until the least episode of the season, and at that point the next season villain will arrive, at which time we will continue to put our lives on hold until we find a way to defeat that villain, and at that point . . ." {rinse, repeat}.

[Mitch]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Then went right back to bitching at Z!

You know, this is one area that they get right. Regina did meld her heart with her evil side or whatever the hell that sloppy dumb scene was supposed to accomplish...so she still has a bitchy side. And whom better to show your bitchy side too, as who would annoy the living f out of you  more, then your sibling. Especially if said sibling is even more high school girl immature then you are...(which is amazing that anyone can top Regina on that.) I'm glad that they acknowledge that Regina can still be a bitch but we really need to have her roll her eyes again at the Charmings latest stupidity..Zelena is picking up the heavy work load here.. I kept waiting for Regina to say something appropriate to Snow about that stupid wedding book (when would she have the time between running around Storybrooke, Camelot, Hades and having a baby...) but she just stood there, looking benign which ruined the whole scene.

Though Regina can blame her bitchiness on Snow, her mom, the death of her ambiguously gay stable boy-friend (Oh Regina, I think that your heart was going to be broken there even if he didn't die...), Rumple whatever, that woman was born to be a bitch, (maybe not evil but a bitch just the same..) she is just too damn good at it. Show needs to let her do it again, but for now, since she is "reformed," all she can do is sneer at Z.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Mitch

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

You know, this is one area that they get right. Regina did meld her heart with her evil side or whatever the hell that sloppy dumb scene was supposed to accomplish...so she still has a bitchy side. And whom better to show your bitchy side too, as who would annoy the living f out of you  more, then your sibling.

I wouldn't have minded if Z gave as got as she got and the REC meant that Regina was right a-fucking-gain.

[KingOfHearts]

Regina has always been a bitch, and that's totally within her character's bounds. My problem though, is that no one ever acts like she is one. No matter how many times Regina kicks her sister in the teeth, Zelena still comes back like a sad puppy, apologizing for minor offenses. I think it would be great if Zelena found a friend, but it ain't her sister. It's especially pitiable that she's the only person she thinks she can connect with. When Regina has a bad case of the sads, the Charmings all cling to her like glue. But if Zelena, who has done much less evil to them, is raising a baby all on her own, then she's just a witch who doesn't deserve the time of day. 

I hate how this episode framed Zelena as being the difficult one who just can't open her heart. Obviously, the shoe was on the wrong foot. She didn't need to learn the lesson. It's a riddle that Regina has an army of "friends" around her, yet treats people like garbage.

Edited April 26, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[PixiePaws1]

10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Regina has always been a bitch, and that's totally within her character's bounds. My problem though, is that no one ever acts like she is one. No matter how many times Regina kicks her sister in the teeth, Zelena still comes back like a sad puppy, apologizing for minor offenses. I think it would be great if Zelena found a friend, but it ain't her sister. It's especially pitiable that she's the only person she thinks she can connect with. When Regina has a bad case of the sads, the Charmings all cling to her like glue. But if Zelena, who has done much less evil to them, is raising a baby all on her own, then she's just a witch who doesn't deserve the time of day. 

I hate how this episode framed Zelena as being the difficult one who just can't open her heart. Obviously, the shoe was on the wrong foot. She didn't need to learn the lesson. It's a riddle that Regina has an army of "friends" around her, yet treats people like garbage.

I absolutely agree with the sentiment and i have to remind myself that Zelena did kidnap minutes old Baby Snowflake and the Charmings do have a right to be cranky with her about that...and it is still fresh in their minds  (of course the writers have already forgotten all about it and Zelena never apologised..)

But i'd still choose Z as a friend over Regina ..

Edited April 27, 2017 by PixiePaws1

[Rumsy4]

I just watched the episode fully. It was okay, I guess. I loved the CS pancake scene, and all the Charming family scenes. Seriously, Granny's for the Wedding?? I still can't get over it. lol

The Tin Man was asking for a pretty huge sacrifice in expecting Zelena to give up her magic for someone she'd met once as a kid. But I really do think Zelena should go back to Oz and face the music (and set things right) to grovelling to Regina. It's nice she actually made a sacrifice to correct her mistake, but I'm sure she'll get her magic back soon enough.

I officially despise Belle now. And to think I actually found her compelling at the beginning of the season! 

Looks like BF's sob-story is coming soon. It's probably all framed as Blue's fault. 

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

It's nice she actually made a sacrifice to correct her mistake, but I'm sure she'll get her magic back soon enough.

I totally forgot it's This Show.  This seems like a big deal in this episode and a huge step but you're right.  Zelena could brush past a magical cobweb next week and have all her magic back and now it would be pure light magic with the power of a thousand suns, just in time to win The Final Battle.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Camera One

[darkestboy]

The flashbacks seemed a little trite, even if I am a sucker for the Oz stuff and did like seeing both Tin Man and Cowardly Lion.

Anyways, nice Zelena found a way to outsmart the Black Fairy after being tricked by her but not having her magic can't end well for her, right?

The more and more this show utters the words 'final battle', the more I'm convinced it's going to be axed.

Snow and David being relegated to wedding planners for Emma/Hook is depressing though. Regina had some decent moments this week but nothing too great.

Black Fairy is gonna have a sad backstory next week then, 7/10

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, darkestboy said:

Snow and David being relegated to wedding planners for Emma/Hook is depressing though.

For once, they get to act like parents. Is that bad? 

Also, Henry's authorial crisis seems so forced at this point. It's obviously a very last minute addition to the season so they can wrap things up. 

[Curio]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

The Tin Man was asking for a pretty huge sacrifice in expecting Zelena to give up her magic for someone she'd met once as a kid. 

Zelena forcing Emma to give up her magic to save Hook in Season 3 has a totally new meaning now. Zelena was forcing Emma to do something she knew she didn't have the guts to do back in Oz.

Quote

It's nice she actually made a sacrifice to correct her mistake, but I'm sure she'll get her magic back soon enough.

Unfortunately, you know that's exactly what will happen. There'll be a huge speech about how magic makes Zelena "special," and without her powers she isn't "special" anymore. Meanwhile, the non-magical Charmings, Belle, and Hook will look on and roll their eyes because apparently they're not "special" if they don't have magic.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I understand why Zelena is living out in the farmhouse way away from everyone - but why hasn't she used her magic (before she gave it up) to fix up the place?  I mean, Regina's got that nice house and Z is more powerful than her.  Why wouldn't she swirl some green fog and make it really nice?  

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

I totally forgot it's This Show.  This seems like a big deal in this episode and a huge step but you're right.  Zelena could brush past a magical cobweb next week and have all her magic back and now it would be pure light magic with the power of a thousand suns, just in time to win The Final Battle.

She can't be more powerful than Regina, though.

5 hours ago, Curio said:

Zelena forcing Emma to give up her magic to save Hook in Season 3 has a totally new meaning now. Zelena was forcing Emma to do something she knew she didn't have the guts to do back in Oz.

It would have special meaning if TSTW remembered that that happened...

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I understand why Zelena is living out in the farmhouse way away from everyone - but why hasn't she used her magic (before she gave it up) to fix up the place?  I mean, Regina's got that nice house and Z is more powerful than her.  Why wouldn't she swirl some green fog and make it really nice?  

Because all magic has a pr... HA HA HA HA HA!!!

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I understand why Zelena is living out in the farmhouse way away from everyone - but why hasn't she used her magic (before she gave it up) to fix up the place?  I mean, Regina's got that nice house and Z is more powerful than her.  Why wouldn't she swirl some green fog and make it really nice?  

That magic requires a special ingredient Zelena didn't have on hand - an enchanted spoonful of sugar. Maybe she could get some from Fairy Poppins?

Edited April 27, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RulerofallIsurvey]

22 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Because all magic has a pr... HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Right?  Which makes it all the more ridiculous that she doesn't fix the place up like the Emerald Palace or something.  

[Shanna Marie]

15 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Which makes it all the more ridiculous that she doesn't fix the place up like the Emerald Palace or something.  

Especially considering that this is the woman who snarked about them so inefficiently driving around in those death traps when they could just poof themselves from place to place.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Especially considering that this is the woman who snarked about them so inefficiently driving around in those death traps when they could just poof themselves from place to place.

This is the woman who couldn't poof herself out of her palace when Robin ran out with her precious object (and then had a long talk with Will right on the Yellow Brick Road), and when Dorothy ran out after Toto pulled down the curtain.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

This is the woman who couldn't poof herself out of her palace when Robin ran out with her precious object (and then had a long talk with Will right on the Yellow Brick Road), and when Dorothy ran out after Toto pulled down the curtain.

I guess she's consistently inconsistent. Or the writers keep forgetting about magic at the strangest times.

[KAOS Agent]

I still don't understand why they were trapped by the cave in. Why didn't they just poof out of there? Or if they needed to be on the other side to get to the Black Fairy, just poof to the other side of the cave in. This was not difficult. When Regina started bitching about their circumstances, I didn't understand why Zelena didn't point that out,

[Rumsy4]

The same reason why Emma didn't poof away from the spider's clutches at the Sorceror's Mansion. Idiocy/Plot. 

[Camera One]

Great questions.  The rocks in the mine are a special type of granite that causes magical wavelengths to reverberate and cancel each other out.  Similarly, the protein threads made by the spider had a very unique sequence of amino acids that counteracted the effects of magic and had an effect on the epigenetics of nerve firing so triggered Emma's tremors.  Hope that helps!

Edited April 29, 2017 by Camera One