S02.E12: The Monster and the Rocket

[xaxat]

Quote

A discovery pushes Naomi and Holden apart and sets the Roci crew against each other.

Things I liked. Errinwright muscling his way back to relevance and any time Alex pulls off a nifty move with the Roci.

Things I didn't. I had a hard time buying Holden's total obsession with tracking down the hybrids and the peaceful resolution with the Somnambulist. It also kind of rubbed me the wrong way when Holden accepted Naomi's thanks without mentioning it was all because of Alex.

[johntfs]

I love Chrisjen when she gets her cranky foulmouthery on.  Bobbie was cool immediately going for the food.  Every soldier knows you never miss a chance to eat sleep or shit, you never know when you'll get another.  Plus, rich person food.  How awesome is that?

[Haleth]

19 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I love Chrisjen when she gets her cranky foulmouthery on.  Bobbie was cool immediately going for the food.  Every soldier knows you never miss a chance to eat sleep or shit, you never know when you'll get another.  Plus, rich person food.  How awesome is that?

And awesome how quickly Bobbie instinctively jumped up to protect Chrisjen.  Other than their scenes it was a big old nothing.  The Somnambulist scenes seemed pointless and the Roci scenes took too long to get to the payoff of seeing the stowaway.

[johntfs]

I never got to the payoff because The Magicians( I watched the very first episode during that early preview.  C. S. Lewis' Narnia was barely okay for my child self.  Narnia featuring whiny, disaffected early thirty-somethings was not going to compel my viewing) apparently ran long and my VCR (yes, my primitive screwhead ass still uses one) cut off the last minute or two of the episode. 

I am trying to figure out what Errinwright bought with his maneuvers.  Okay, the head Martian contact is dead and the research is apparently gone, but it's not like Errinwright wasn't going down anyway so how can he protect Mao?  Earth first or not, I don't see Chrisjen putting Mao and his "work" anywhere but in a cell, so Earth seems pretty no-win for Mao.  I figure he'll most likely cut and run to the Belters to try and peddle his shit to them.

Edited April 13, 2017 by johntfs

[that one guy]

I saw the last minute of the show, and was sitting fairly close to a 1080p HDTV, and had my glasses on, and I didn't pick up that there was a stowaway. I knew the shot was important somehow because of the music, but it went by too fast for me to figure out what I was supposed to be looking at. I was like, "what, the door's open? The ship's damaged? I don't get it." The image either needed to be clearer, or the shot longer, or I needed to be maybe 10 or 15 years younger.

[xaxat]

Another thing I liked about this episode is how it developed the idea that Errinwright is devoted to a historical vision of Earth. He uses a razor that can cut him (much like some people today use straight razors), wrote his letter to his son with a fountain pen and drinks really old scotch.

20 minutes ago, that one guy said:

I saw the last minute of the show, and was sitting fairly close to a 1080p HDTV, and had my glasses on, and I didn't pick up that there was a stowaway.

You're not alone. I kind of guessed that they were implying that a hybrid might be hitching a ride, but didn't actually see one.

[Eulipian 5k]

Looks like Bobbie and Chrisjen's bodyguard are off to a great start. I liked their snarky interplay. Can't wait til she gets a real Marine's gun.

Now that everybody will know about the Proto-molecule, how does Holden feel about the fact that he took it upon himself to kill the doctors and crew of the earlier rescue ship that was trying to escape Eros.

[thuganomics85]

Bobbie digging into the cucumber sandwiches was the best.  Followed by all the jabs and banter between her and Cotyar.  Really digging her in Chrisjen's storyline.  Even if ended with Chrisjen actually losing for once.  Hopefully not for too long!

I had a feeling Sadavir was up to something, but I didn't predict that his plan would be to poison the Martian Ambassador, and basically make himself Jules-Pierre only ally now, in the bid to sell the proto-molecule.  He really can't be underestimated, although Shawn Doyle did a great job at the beginning, that I really can't fully blame Chrisjen for thinking that he was going to comply.  But now I'm curious to see where this goes, now that the hostility is no longer under the surface.  Imagine those two will be butting heads more openly a lot going forward.

Glad Naomi was able to save at least 52 of the refugees, but it was still sad so many had to be left to die.  Liked the Champa guy, who helped and stayed behind so that Naomi could live, even after she offered him her spot.  It was nice seeing Dominque Tipper get more to do, since I felt like she has been on the back-burner a bit the past few episodes.

I think they are going for a bit of a Captain Ahab vibe with Holden's need to hunt down and destroy anything involve with the proto-molecule, but he was in Grade A Jackass mode for this episode.  Poor Alex getting stuck with him, but at least he finally talked him down (Meng is probably wondering if getting involve with them is worth it.)  To his credit, Holden did sell the badass threat at the end, but he still came off like a jerk for never really apologizing to Alex or giving him credit for being able to finally get Holden to pull his own head out of his ass.

So, it took three of those shots to finally incapacitate Amos.  Yeah, he seems like a guy who could probably shake off a horse tranquilizer in a few seconds.

Season finale next week!!

[marinw]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Bobbie digging into the cucumber sandwiches was the best.  

That was great. 

I cried during the boarding of the The Weeping Somnambulis.

I thought Holden was being a little OTT with his Captain Ahab bit. I continue to love Alex and his great piloting skillz.

Edited April 14, 2017 by marinw

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Season finale next week!!

Wow.  Already?!??

[Haleth]

The irony is that in his zeal to pursue and destroy the proto-hybrid Holden allowed it to steal aboard the Roci and escape Ganymede. 

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Now that everybody will know about the Proto-molecule, how does Holden feel about the fact that he took it upon himself to kill the doctors and crew of the earlier rescue ship that was trying to escape Eros.

 

1 hour ago, marinw said:

I though Holden was being a little OTT with his Captain Ahab bit.

The fact that he murdered an innocent crew of doctors to stop the thing is probably one reason he's going Ahab.  He can't let that awful thing be for nothing.  So, he must hunt down and destroy every last remnant of the P-M even if it kills him (and anyone with him).

[marinw]

25 minutes ago, johntfs said:

The fact that he murdered an innocent crew of doctors to stop the thing is probably one reason he's going Ahab.  He can't let that awful thing be for nothing. 

This may be what economists refer to as "Sunk Costs."

[Nukester]

Not very thrilled with the Holden storyline right now.  It is definitely way to Ahab for me. I believe the writers went overboard with his ambition, and it just came across silly.  I also missed the alien stowaway.  

[Teitr Styrr]

Oh man, Naomi and the big fella hit me right in the feels. I'm not liking Holden right about now. He has to know that the protomolocuel is out there now to a point that there ain't no backing it up. He just seems so angry and unlike Holden. 

I loved all the smiles and giggles that Bobby got from her ride with those two.

Oh oh, the other big thing. I don't know the guy's name, the guy that sent the message to Mao. I think he was bluffing about being so mad at  Chrisjen, so Mao would believe that he would blow them out of the sky.  I think he is just gonna hand over Mao to Chisjen. I could be way off about that I suppose!

Edited April 14, 2017 by Teitr Styrr

[jhlipton]

20 minutes ago, Teitr Styrr said:

the protomolocuel

This looks enough like "protomolecruel" that I think that's what I'm going to call it!

[Teitr Styrr]

Haha! Yep, that's me and spelling. We go way back!

[chiaros]

13 hours ago, that one guy said:

I saw the last minute of the show, and was sitting fairly close to a 1080p HDTV, and had my glasses on, and I didn't pick up that there was a stowaway. I knew the shot was important somehow because of the music, but it went by too fast for me to figure out what I was supposed to be looking at. I was like, "what, the door's open? The ship's damaged? I don't get it." The image either needed to be clearer, or the shot longer, or I needed to be maybe 10 or 15 years younger.

 

13 hours ago, xaxat said:

You're not alone. I kind of guessed that they were implying that a hybrid might be hitching a ride, but didn't actually see one.

 

3 hours ago, Nukester said:

 I also missed the alien stowaway.  

It wasn't too clear, and pretty small - but I both recorded it on my DVR and also watched it on my computer off the SyFy website and it did catch my eye on my computer screen (in HD, 23 inch screen, sitting ~ 16 inches away).

Anyway, here's a pic off my 720p TV on a replay from the DVR and taken with my Nikon Coolpix...

 

And three screen grabs off my computer screen...with the brightness, contrast and sharpness of the screen grabs bumped up...

 

The end of the episode as aired also showed the customary "teaser"/preview of the next episode (ep. 13) where the protomolecule hybrid is CLEARLY shown in what must have been a 30 sec++ sequence.  Those who watched it must have seen the hybrid. I also took a few pics of that scene off my TV but since it is of Ep 13 posting them here would probably be either a spoiler or OT in this thread...

The "Sneak Peak" for Ep. 13 on the SyFy website also shows the hybrid quite clearly on the ship.

Edited April 14, 2017 by chiaros

[lidarose9]

Could someone please explain to me the significance of Errinwright's power grab? It all happened so fast; I really did not understand any of that.  -- But that scene was all kinds of fucking awesome: one minute they're all sitting there watching TV, then they all stop, turn to look at each other, and then BOOM everybody jumps up, guns out. It was like a scene in a western, the old Mexican stand-off. Also loved Bobbie going for the sammies. She's all fuck you guys I'm hongry nom nom. Also she and Chrisjens' bodyguard are destined to do a thing. With all that witty repartee in the shuttle. 

[Eulipian 5k]

I never crossed anyone in my life, but jam me and I'll go thru you like a cucumber sammich!

[Clanstarling]

Am I the only one who thought Errinwright's message to Mao contained a thinly veiled order for Mao to kill Chrisjen. He pretty specifically said to come back alone. To me, that was part of the reason Bobby and the bodyguard jumped up to protect her. I thought his fury and hatred was real. His mask was off.

I also thought they did a nice job of making it look like Errinwright was going to commit suicide, between the lingering look at the blood on his neck, the talk with his son, the letter, and even up to drinking the last swig when his Martian counterpart was dying. Then he explained there was a poison that could be targeted to a specific individual. Chilling.

I liked Meng's perspective - that the hybrid might contain enough of the child's soul that we shouldn't just point and shoot. It strikes me that this might be true, and maybe we'll see more to confirm that.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I liked Meng's perspective - that the hybrid might contain enough of the child's soul that we shouldn't just point and shoot.

Makes no sense to me.  Your kid gets eaten by a shark, you don't conclude that the shark is now partly your child and should be preserved!

[Clanstarling]

Depends on how you look at it - a shark definitely kills the child while eating it. But the child may not have been killed, but transformed - it could be more like a caterpillar/butterfly metamorphosis (albeit a horrible one). Given what we've seen in an uncontrolled setting with Julie - some of the original being remains - at least for a while. Might not more of the original being remain in a "controlled" setting.

It may be more akin to a seed transforming into a plant. Which is why it makes sense to me that the father, a botanist, would see it that way.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Clanstarling

[that one guy]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I liked Meng's perspective - that the hybrid might contain enough of the child's soul that we shouldn't just point and shoot. It strikes me that this might be true, and maybe we'll see more to confirm that.

Well, Eros contained enough Julie Mao that it wanted to go home. It nearly destroyed Earth in the process, but not on purpose. It's entirely possible that the protomonster is just a little girl looking for her daddy, and . . . going through anybody who gets in her way like a door. Or a tiny little cucumber sammich.

[lidarose9]

Maybe she/it knew her father was on the Roci and that's why she hitched a ride. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Are we supposed to think Meng's daughter isn't still strapped to a chair receiving the proto/cule intravenously? We saw the woman in the white coat die, but where was Strickland and Mei? How could she already be that huge ~6' creature that the Roci is hunting?

[johntfs]

The scenes with Strickland and Mei were flashbacks to the day of the attack.  Time has passed since then, so Mei could easily be another one of the creatures (presumably the one the attacked Bobbie and her team is no longer around for whatever reasons).

[MissLucas]

The scientist who was still alive in the lab said that 'there's a lot more where she came from' ('she' referring to the dead kid in the incinerator or maybe Mei) so I'd say it's not exactly clear if hybrid 1 is really Mei. Anyway there are probably more hybrids stashed away someplace else. Strickland and Co. worked on quite a number of kids and Mao took the news of the Karakum being shot down remarkably well so I'd say hybrid 2, 3 etc. are safe.

I've watched last season's final episode the other week and I think Alex got it right: what Holden experienced on Eros plays a big part in his obsession. And that's why Prax couldn't get through to him. After having seen what happened to Julie and to all the others a kid inside hybrid 1 just turns a necessary killing into a mercy killing for him. Prax on the other hand got on my last nerve (probably because I had 'Waaaalt' flashbacks so it's not the character's fault).

Nice slight of hand by the writers giving us the impression that Errinwright was about to fall into his own sword from the very first scene onward. And Avasarala for once being caught off-guard was another good move. She can't always win. Loved the banter between Bobbie and Cotyar (and looking forward to hearing how he got Avasarala's son killed). Bobbie's little smirk at Avasarala's problems during take-off was golden, as was her going for the cucumber sandwiches and jumping right in front of Avasarala when s*** hit the fan.

The Somnambulist scenario left me somewhat doubtful - we know from the Titanic going down that there were folks willingly giving up their places so that others could be rescued. However the world the show's been creating so far has left very little room for noble acts of self-sacrifice and that's why this felt a little bit out of left field. I guess this is the show's attempt at bringing a little light to all the darkness.

hmm, just realized we got no scenes involving Venus, the UNS Arboghast and the Martian ship. I'm sure everything is honky-dory in that part of the solar system.

ETA: For a brief, crazy moment during the scene with the dying Martian ambassador I thought Errinwright was going to say: 'It was already in the jar' - which would have been awesome.

Edited April 14, 2017 by MissLucas

[marinw]

Why dosn't Prax identify as a Ganymedian or a Jovian and not a Belter? Haven't the Moons of Jupiter been settled long enough to form their own, distinct society? Becuase, you know, tribalism.

Edited April 15, 2017 by marinw

[Emily Thrace]

9 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

Maybe she/it knew her father was on the Roci and that's why she hitched a ride. 

Yeah I was thinking that might be she was in the the dome she was looking for her dad. I'm sure its Mei just like I'm sure one of the Roci crew will end up shooting her. Maybe Meng too if he gets in the way. I think it might be Naomi who pulls the trigger but it could be any of them.

What also feels inevitable is Avasarala meeting James Holden. It would be awesome if the Roci was the one to save her next week.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

What also feels inevitable is Avasarala meeting James Holden. It would be awesome if the Roci was the one to save her next week.

That would be cool.  Chrisjen could meet James and Bobbie could meet Amos.  Figure any kids they had would stomp the holy living fuck out of anything Mao could create.

[MissLucas]

8 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah I was thinking that might be she was in the the dome she was looking for her dad. I'm sure its Mei just like I'm sure one of the Roci crew will end up shooting her. Maybe Meng too if he gets in the way. I think it might be Naomi who pulls the trigger but it could be any of them.

It's possible that the hybrid was there looking for Mei's dad (I refuse to think of it as Mei even if she was the kid being fused with the protogen) but I think Alex got it right when he asked Holden if he ever considered that the hybrid was trying to lure the Roci into the dome. Alex never followed up with an explanation why the hybrid should be doing that but from what we saw in the last scene it was probably in order to hitch a ride.

[mAlice]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

That would be cool.  Chrisjen could meet James and Bobbie could meet Amos.  Figure any kids they had would stomp the holy living fuck out of anything Mao could create.

Ok, I did not think of it before you posted this, but now I am shipping Bobbie and Amos.

[JZL]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:05 AM, Haleth said:

And awesome how quickly Bobbie instinctively jumped up to protect Chrisjen.  Other than their scenes it was a big old nothing.  The Somnambulist scenes seemed pointless and the Roci scenes took too long to get to the payoff of seeing the stowaway.

Wow.  There's not much reason to actually watch the show, I guess.  If all you're interested in are the "payoffs," the episode blerbs are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(TV_series)#Season_2_.282017.29

On 4/14/2017 at 9:34 AM, Clanstarling said:

Am I the only one who thought Errinwright's message to Mao contained a thinly veiled order for Mao to kill Chrisjen.

Concur.  That may not have been very thinly veiled, but Crisjen et al are lucky they aren't already dead.  Luckily Cotyar came prepared.

On 4/13/2017 at 3:00 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I think they are going for a bit of a Captain Ahab vibe with Holden's need to hunt down and destroy anything involve with the proto-molecule, but he was in Grade A Jackass mode for this episode.

Just a little thing, but near the end Holden shot Prax a little sympathetic sideways glance and then turned back and sort of looked down, so maybe he's beginning head-ass extrication. 

My confusion:  How is it that the Earth's destruction of the Martian black-ops ship (the Karakum?) didn't immediately ignite an interplanetary war?  Didn't both Earth and Mars have warships furballing around Ganymede?

Edited April 15, 2017 by JZL

[WildPlum]

I get that the writers want to show the complexity and range of characters - the same group of people (Belters) who viciously spaced the "Inners" from Ganymede are also the ones who came together enough to allow an orderly evac of only SOME of the people in the loading bay.

Hmm, are Amos and Naomi going to be okay after this?

 

14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I just caught up with this ep in the books (I'm trying to stay more or less in sync), and oh, yeah, just fine, nothing at all to worry about!

There is a thread for book spoilers, please don't even hint at them here - if we wanted to know what was in the books, we'd have read them ourselves.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, JZL said:

Wow.  There's not much reason to actually watch the show, I guess.  If all you're interested in are the "payoffs," the episode blerbs are here:

I'm interested in being entertained.  I did not find this episode particularly entertaining.  YMMV.

[btp]

17 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I'm sure its Mei just like I'm sure one of the Roci crew will end up shooting her.

 

I actually hope it's not, just because it would avoid the big "do you or do you not kill the monster that once was your loved one?" cliche. This writing team is pretty good at subverting the tropes and surprising us in ways that are not part of the standard screenwriter's playbook, so I'm holding out hope.

OTOH, if they do go this fairly predictable route, I'm sure this cast & crew will pull it off with aplomb and with sufficient twists to make it unique.

Edited April 15, 2017 by btp
typos

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, JZL said:

My confusion:  How is it that the Earth's destruction of the Martian black-ops ship (the Karakum?) didn't immediately ignite an interplanetary war?  Didn't both Earth and Mars have warships furballing around Ganymede?

I was confused about that too - and about Holden's line 'They're saving their bullets for each other'. I tried to make out all the different symbols on the Roci's screen when Alex target-locked all the MCRN ships but my geek credentials were not good enough. There were ships not targeted but I don't know if they were UN. If there were no UN ships in orbit then where did the missile taking down the Karakum come from? From Earth? Didn't it take forever for the missiles Earth sent after Eros to even come close enough for Fred Johnson to steal them away? So how did Errinwright know how to time his strike?

[btp]

3 hours ago, WildPlum said:

There is a thread for book spoilers, please don't even hint at them here - if we wanted to know what was in the books, we'd have read them ourselves.

I understand -- and support -- this sentiment, but I think in this case it was a bit undeserved. The "spoiler" you're talking about essentially said that "something is going to happen" in a part of the story that has been hinting at something happening since... well, since the episode when Eros crashed into Venus, really.

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, WildPlum said:

There is a thread for book spoilers, please don't even hint at them here - if we wanted to know what was in the books, we'd have read them ourselves.

2 hours ago, btp said:

I understand -- and support -- this sentiment, but I think in this case it was a bit undeserved. The "spoiler" you're talking about essentially said that "something is going to happen" in a part of the story that has been hinting at something happening since... well, since the episode when Eros crashed into Venus, really.

I took the original post:

On 4/14/2017 at 5:51 PM, MissLucas said:

hmm, just realized we got no scenes involving Venus, the UNS Arboghast and the Martian ship. I'm sure everything is honky-dory in that part of the solar system.

to be sarcastic and responded in kind.  I'll not put anything about the book in show threads from now on, though.

[rozen]

Holden is simultaneously under- and over-estimating the protomolecule. He thinks it's a ruthless killing machine that must be destroyed, but is simultaneously too stupid to use any type of tactics other than 'rip, tear, repeat'. You'd think he would have some self-reflection on the fact that Miller somehow found a way to redirect Eros into Venus, but much more fun to go 100% Ahab on it. Alex really showed his Martian training in continuing to follow orders for as long as he did. If Naomi or Amos were the pilot they would have burned out of there a long time ago.

Alex has been getting hotter and hotter as the episodes have progressed (his pride over his lasagna, be still my beating heart!), but I just about died when he growled 'our family needs us right now!' I know you have an adorable Martial family, but please continue to pretend to be dead and run away with me instead!

I like how it's a consistent thread that every leader in this tale, when faced with the option of listening to not-evil scientists observing protomolecule behavior, go 'nah, dummy scientist. What do you know?' I hope the botanist sticks around and joins the Roci crew. We need greater representation from the Not Total Sociopaths science contingent. 

I would really like Belters to get a non-tragic win sometime soon. Mars and Earth and Mao are all having a colossal pissing match, and the Belters are dying left and right just trying to survive, and having no stake in the outcome. Anders is trash, but I'm empathizing more and more with his refusal to let any non-Belter have the upper hand on him. 

I'm guessing since we had that 1 hr long exposition while the Martial Ambassdor died of a heart attack that one of those targeted killer pills will be coming for Bobbie soon. Stop touching the free food, girl, it's gonna probably murder you one day. 

Looks like

Julie re-built Earth on Venus. Hope she and Miller are eating proto-cotton candy and riding ferris wheels all day.

Poor Amos. All his guiding lights are becoming corrupted, or stabbing him in the back. Maybe the botanist can be his new dude.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Dougal
Hid preview talk.

[MissLucas]

49 minutes ago, rozen said:

I like how it's a consistent thread that every leader in this tale, when faced with the option of listening to not-evil scientists observing protomolecule behavior, go 'nah, dummy scientist. What do you know?' I hope the botanist sticks around and joins the Roci crew. We need greater representation from the Not Total Sociopaths science contingent. 

Holden is simultaneously under- and over-estimating the protomolecule. He thinks it's a ruthless killing machine that must be destroyed, but is simultaneously too stupid to use any type of tactics other than 'rip, tear, repeat'. You'd think he would have some self-reflection on the fact that Miller somehow found a way to redirect Eros into Venus, but much more fun to go 100% Ahab on it. Alex really showed his Martian training in continuing to follow orders for as long as he did. If Naomi or Amos were the pilot they would have burned out of there a long time ago.

 

Prax wasn't behaving like an objective non-evil scientist but like a father who desperately wants his kid back.* Understandable but he wasn't arguing from a scientific point of view and he never made a good argument against trying to kill the hybrid nor did he suggest a viable alternative. I'm not holding it against Holden that he did not listen to the guy who told him that he was no better than the folks who unleashed the protomolecule on Eros. Also: the same guy who opened fire last week and was responsible for the ensuing chaos and 'all that death'. Much of the situation he was constantly harping about was created by him. If he ever starts to behave like a scientist he might be a good addition to the team but so far he has been nothing but a giant stumbling block.

As for tactics to use: Miller had to deal with protomolecule Julie - a version of the protomolecule that evolved without outside interference. The hybrid was developed/trained/designed/engineered to be a weapon. Trying to talk to it/reach the kid still (?) within might work if you manage to capture and sedate it in a secure environment - like in that lab that was destroyed due to Prax's happy trigger-finger - but I highly doubt it.

*We haven't had many non-evil scientists on this show so far. Avasarala's guy on the Arboghast comes to mind and she did listen to him, but of course she's awesome.

[xaxat]

18 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I was confused about that too - and about Holden's line 'They're saving their bullets for each other'. I tried to make out all the different symbols on the Roci's screen when Alex target-locked all the MCRN ships but my geek credentials were not good enough. There were ships not targeted but I don't know if they were UN. If there were no UN ships in orbit then where did the missile taking down the Karakum come from? From Earth?

Add me to the confused list. I just rewatched and it still doesn't make sense.

In his meeting with the Martian ambassador, Errinwright says that both planets are about to blow themselves up over Ganymede and gestures towards a situation map featuring red and blue icons. Presumably Martian (red) and UN (blue) ships. Boom goes the Martian ship and Alex is looking at a display similar to Errinwright, with both Martian and UN ships. Alex figures out that the Martian ship has been destroyed, so presumably the Martian Navy can as well. Things were already on a trigger edge, yet no one shoots?

[WearyTraveler]

I think, but I may be completely wrong, that Errinwright used the Martian's ambassador device (which he pointedly looked at when he was killing the guy) to self-destroy the Martian ship.  UN ships would know they didn't fire, so, they would not act.  Martian ships would know that the ship self destroyed (perhaps they saw something in their screens that indicated this), so they wouldn't attack either.

Or Errinwright could have sent a message saying: "mission aborted, destroy ship XYZ, don't let it fall in UN hands, but don't engage unless fired upon"  and then to UN ships he could have sent another message warning that the Martian ship would be destroyed and not to engage either.  It will take a while before the ships in Ganymede find out the Ambassador is dead.

Edited April 16, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[WildPlum]

You'd think cell phones would be more secure in the 24th(?) century. Apparently not....

[JZL]

Mars and Earth should forget about this proto-molecule stuff and settle their differences with a good old-fashioned game of ROLLERBALL!

Edited April 17, 2017 by JZL

[raven]

On 4/14/2017 at 2:38 AM, lidarose9 said:

Could someone please explain to me the significance of Errinwright's power grab?

I was thinking, why would Mao go to Chrisjen?   Errinwright is her boss, wouldn't he complain to Errinwright?  Maybe he did, and they are working together already (Mao & Errinwright) with Mao inviting Chrisjen to his ship to get her out of the way for some reason.  I admit the show politics are a little confusing.  Mao wants to sell the protomolecule to everyone, I guess, and Errinwright wants to be the one to make the deal.  I'm not sure.

I really enjoyed the Bobbie/Cotyar/Chrisjen back and forth. 

I should rewatch S1 because the lengths Holden went to chasing after the creature just don't seem earned somehow.

I really like the captain of the Weeping Somnambulist.  The actress is doing a good job with a small part.

Quote

I love Chrisjen when she gets her cranky foulmouthery on.

I do too - well, all the time.  It annoys the fuck out of me that SyFy mutes it though.

[brewer]

9 hours ago, raven said:

I should rewatch S1 because the lengths Holden went to chasing after the creature just don't seem earned somehow.

That part is the only complaint I have when it comes to the series (which I love, love, love). The books did a much better job at describing Holden's motives. Making book-Eros come alive on screen would have undoubtedly cost a lot of money, money I guess the showrunners did not have, but TV-Eros and book-Eros were not on the same scale. In the books Eros was truly terrifing, you understood without other characters having to tell you that Holden's and Miller's life changed forever after they escaped from the tunnels of hell. It was chaotic, horrendous, a run for their lives and it was chrystal clear that everything Jim did after Eros was because of Eros. In the show it was some empty corridors, with couple of bodies having brown gooey coming out of them, and a radiation sickness which was cured with band-aids. So it is a bit harder to understand the gravity of what Jim and Miller experienced down there.

Also, the books did a better job with putting one life-altering event after the other and also with the connection between Holden and Miller: the destruction of the Canterbury, the destruction of the Donnager, findig Julie on Eros, the massacre on Eros, the killing of Dresden, the death of Miller came in a short period of time, and while Jim held himself together up until the last event, the death of Miller shoved him over the edge. By the end of the first book you were just as terrified of the protomolecule as Jim was.

Edited April 17, 2017 by brewer

[MissLucas]

11 hours ago, brewer said:

That part is the only complaint I have when it comes to the series (which I love, love, love). The books did a much better job at describing Holden's motives. Making book-Eros come alive on screen would have undoubtedly cost a lot of money, money I guess the showrunners did not have, but TV-Eros and book-Eros were not on the same scale. In the books Eros was truly terrifing, you understood without other characters having to tell you that Holden's and Miller's life changed forever after they escaped from the tunnels of hell. It was chaotic, horrendous, a run for their lives and it was chrystal clear that everything Jim did after Eros was because of Eros.

Thanks, I've seen this mentioned before and I think you've got a point. They tried to give us some idea of how the experience had shaped Holden by that line they gave Alex in this episode but that was probably not really enough. This is a classic case of 'show don't tell' - even if they could not really reproduce the book's full body-horror they could have given us one or two scenes with Holden having nightmares to indicate how deeply he is traumatized. It was implied but probably too subtle - however if you pick up the clues then Holden comes across as much less of an Ahab.

[JZL]

Maybe with a show like this one, that's a panoply of crises, the significance of any single one, such as Holden's Eros experience, becomes relatively diminished.

(Or more simply put, you can't see the Eros for the trees)